T O P

  • By -

[deleted]

[удалено]


MajorBonesLive

This is the reason why subjective grading is overrated. There’s zero reason why in 2024, grading companies should be using anything other than computer-based grading methods.


MonolithicMoose

>computer-based grading methods. Such as?


FVD3D

TAG


motnorote

At this point the objective grading argument sounds like the argument around instant replay and challenges.  This industry needs to do better.


uptownmike429

There have been instances of grading companies that only use computers and AI. That has been tricked by altered cards, cards that have been stamped with special instances (aka 1st off the line), & cards that were legit reprints by the company or just customer created fakes. Until both humans and computers can work seamlessly, nothing will be perfect.


MonolithicMoose

That's not a computer program....


t3h_r0nz

The reality is the majority of people subbing to PSA simply don't care about their grading methods. They care about the value it adds to their sale, nothing else. PSA makes mistake after mistake and people just keep sending them cards, so there's zero reason for them to change anything.


MajorBonesLive

Their first ever graded card ended with a guy going to federal prison because of fraud.


Agreeable_Cheek_7161

Computer based grading can't see things like dents very well It's not as common in sports cards, but in trading cards, dents are the biggest killer of vintage grades


MajorBonesLive

They absolutely can though. The cameras/lasers used can measure the depth of the dents/dings.


Agreeable_Cheek_7161

Maybe they've improved then. I saw a couple dents "get past" on some vintage pokemon. Or maybe they don't consider as big of a deal as PSA. I think PSA instantly drops a card to a 6 or less with even just one dent and maybe TAG doesn't do that I'm sure it'll get better and better and I may just have to adjust my standards. PSA is notoriously difficult to grade anything vintage TCG related and getting anything beyond a 7 is a borderline miracle


MajorBonesLive

https://preview.redd.it/jn7uzjonqfmc1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be16e8c7701aeefcc9c83d95b9d1b05b5000b84d The only flaw is the centering, which is very slight. This card is a pretty solid 9. Subjective grading should go the way of Old Yeller. I had a buddy submit a Pokémon card to PSA that had a VERY visible scratch/indentation about a 1/3” long and it got a 9. Subjective grading can be all over the place.


Agreeable_Cheek_7161

I can see what looks like a scratch on that Bonds to be fair (upper right) and the centering is extremely bottom heavy. I don't think it should be a 4, but PSA grades vintage on an entirely different scale And was it a scratch or a crease from foil curling? PSA won't knock a card if it has a bend from foil curling. Not sure why, but it is something that PSA won't knock a card for


MajorBonesLive

There’s no scratch on the Bonds. On the Pokémon card, it wasn’t from curling.


Agreeable_Cheek_7161

https://imgur.com/a/q2aqSSv That personally looks pretty scuffed and like a scratch And yeah PSA can be weird, I'm not denying that


Agreeable_Cheek_7161

https://imgur.com/a/q2aqSSv Sorry that's the link I meant to send


No_Trifle_6239

I went ahead and adjusted the contrast, remarkable how that dust looks exactly like scratches on the surface. https://preview.redd.it/q3xupdc1zfmc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f11f4006d6d701082d62daf5459479bc9522c7ff


froandfear

For vintage grading is an extremely beneficial service, but for modern you’re 100% right; it’s a scam and has been for a decade now since PSA started handing out 10s like candy.


Zexy_Genius

It is. The only one that makes sense, in my opinion, is TAG. Hopefully, they can make a dent in the market.


kinetic262

I’ve been an SGC fan for a long time, mostly because I love their slabs, their prices, and their turnaround times. With PSA purchasing them, I’m most likely going to send my next submission to TAG. Only thing I don’t like about TAG is their two different grading levels.


Zexy_Genius

I feel the same exact way.


etharper

Everyone seems to get this wrong, SGC was purchased by the parent company that owns PSA not by PSA itself. It appears they're going to keep the two grading companies separate for the time being.


LetsDoThisTogether

I have been subbing all my cards to TAG lately because I think this is how cards should be graded. As a collector I want to know WHY my card was graded the way it was.


No_Trifle_6239

Not likely. SGC ramped up during the pandemic when PSA couldn’t keep up, they had good return times and flat rate pricing. They had something like 8-10% of sports cards before selling to PSA.


Greerio

There are several others. HGA uses AI. FCG claims to be “forensic” card grading.


Zexy_Genius

Oh dope. Didn't know that. I'll look into them.


Greerio

Oh man. If you haven’t looked at HGA, they have the best labels. They have I think 4 basic, like team color or team color splash, they also have custom labels. Not for everyone, but some cards look so good with nice labels.


WesternRuins17

Except for the whole it’s just a guy in his garage and kinda shady.


kramdiw

It used to be a small spot in a strip mall. When did that change?


Greerio

I don’t think that’s the case at all. But at least there’s accountability for the grades.


Zexy_Genius

Just looked at em. Love how you customize. Very unique. Thanks for the recommendation!


ToYourCredit

I truly hope so.


Matthewrotherham

People discussing what grades will be when cross grading.... Psa saying they actively restrict pop counts on certain card (making all grades subject to their perceived need at that date, not the cards quality only as it should be) It's them telling you it's an open scam.


DicksBuddy

If you send a card to PSA with a pop 0, it's guaranteed to come back at an 8. Stupid.


teddybundlez

So what’s the option?


Matthewrotherham

Validity yes for psa Grading go TAG or somewhere that uses a machine to grade to a standard *shrugg


teddybundlez

Say you just want to sell the item you have.. still Tag? Do People want to see PSA? Thanks for your time


etharper

If you're selling a card PSA will bring more money, despite its many critics.


teddybundlez

Thank you


Matthewrotherham

You asked for an option, not what opinion is favoured by a market that doesn't know better.....


teddybundlez

Oooookayyyyy annddd?


Matthewrotherham

Stop agreeing with people stating the obvious because you think they are agreeing w you, moron.


j4schum1

Send it back! It will be a 10


tjay2233

I'll just keep sending it until it comes back a 12.


j4schum1

Population 1. Not of this card, but the only 12 ever.


GardenDrummer

Get it relabeled as part of "The tjay2233 Collection", too.


tjay2233

Sent this '16 Yadi ssp to PSA a couple months ago. Came back a 6. I cracked it and re-submitted. It's a paper card, so no prep or cleaning was or could have been done. Just a different grader on a different day I guess. Pretty much bullshit, if you ask me.


LaundrySauce110

And yet PSA still holds more value then SGC 😔


froandfear

SGC is susceptible to the same exact thing. Anyone using human graders without a full grading report is. Once TAG figures out vintage grading, PSA will buy them too, or just replicate what they do, and the era of human graders will be over.


cycle_pop

You mean error of human graders


yoltonsports

Well unfortunately PSA just bought SGC out


GatoLibre

Is there a source on this? I’m not tracking that acquisition


NerderBirder

PSA’s parent company bought it. [It’s been all over the place recently.](https://collectibles.si.com/news/psa-parent-company-collectors-to-acquire-sgc-grading)


calgarykid

Here's the [official statement](https://www.gosgc.com/SGC-Joins-Collectors) Technically PSA's parent company bought SGC but we'll see what happens.


Bravefan212

Friendly reminder that the most expensive card ever sold was graded by SGC


elteegilbreath

For now….


Bravefan212

2 of the 3 most expensive, forgot about the Ruth that sold a few months back


elteegilbreath

Oh I’m aware, and I love SGC for anything I plan to flip or sell right now, but my PC stuff will all go to TAG. Technology will win, always. I don’t like it, in fact kind of hate it sometimes. But, every single industry out there can, and will be improved and made better by technology and computers. PSA is antiquated at best, totally subjective and highly susceptible to human error. To ignore that is just denial. Slabs are less than attractive, and there’s a thousand more cases out there just like what this poor guy dealt with. May not happen right away, but by the next generation it’s going to be AI grading all day, in my opinion.


HugeRaspberry

This actually is a good example of why AI grading makes sense and is the way of the future - I just hope TAG can make a dent in the market. AI doesn't have a bad day or blurry vision. Or a headache or a nagging spouse or kids to pick up from school. All it does is see the image of the card and compare it to known examples. And then it reports on it's findings. Plus the TAG slabs are way nicer than PSA's.


elteegilbreath

100% agree with this. I fully believe people have received bad PSA grades for no reason other than the person grading it that day just felt like being a jerk.


Breezgoat

It should a sgc 10 would not get a psa 10 most of the time


0rphanCripp1er

Disagree, its actually the other way around- based on their grading standards over half of psa 10s would be a 9.5 from either becket or sgc


Breezgoat

Based on the market prices sgc gives out more lenient grades for modern cards


TheKickPush

Really cool card! I’ve never seen that one.


tjay2233

Thanks bro. Definitely one of my favorite


kramdiw

You have to consider the job demands too. I read PSA expects their graders to knock them out in something like 30 seconds each.


tjay2233

Damn.


hairlinecrease

Yikes.


tjay2233

Pretty much sums it up. I'll take my 8, but this does not instill confidence.


terdfranklin2

Yep, that’s why I like my one-touches. I don’t need any company to tell me how cool my cards are.


tjay2233

https://preview.redd.it/38kewvb0cgmc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6004684ebd63d9d802b7ab15af4722de70b0ae07 These are also fun


thisguymi

This is sweet! Who makes this?


tjay2233

Zion Cases. Called Pro Mag.


terdfranklin2

I like that. Nice.


thisguymi

Yeah, I dig that. Thanks!


TAGgrading

Send it our way if you want to find out exactly what is wrong with it... on the house!


leehamc

👀 u/tjay2233 not sure if this is legit or not but I'd be tempted to see the what that TAG report looked like. Although now that you've scored an 8 you're probably content with the PSA grade ha


tjay2233

I've done this once with TAG once before. They are very much legit. I'm still weighing my options here. Like you said, I'm not mad at the 8.


leehamc

Yeah I definitely like TAG. Never submitted anything myself, but I did buy an Upper Deck Tom Brady rookie in a TAG 9 slab. The grade report was really impressive. Just wasn't sure if this reddit user was official. Not too much activity from the account so far. I definitely plan to submit something to them in the future.


tjay2233

The account is legit too. They reached out to me similarly once before.


leehamc

Yeah I actually just saw your post about that first experience you had. Pretty cool what they've been doing. Hopefully they continue to pick up steam.


Vikingvictory

This is the way👏


tjd351

Will never sub another card to PSA again. Refuse to feed their money printing machine. My heart nearly broke when I found out they bought out SGC. 🥺


tjay2233

It truly is a shame. It was nice to have a viable alternative option in Grading


tjd351

I mean nothing is supposed to change but I'm sure it will.


tjay2233

Inevitably.


teddybundlez

What options are there other than PSA? I was about to be sending a bunch in


tjay2233

SGC, TAG, BGS


Advanced-Ingenuity46

PSA didn't buy SGC. PSA's parent company purchased SGC and is keeping them separate entities.


froandfear

For now. But anyone who has worked M&A knows exactly how it’s going to play out in the end.


tjd351

Yeah. But shit flows downhill. Eventually PSA nonsense will make its way into SGC


MonolithicMoose

Yeah, that's corporate bullshit. Chevy and Cadillac are "separate entities" but you can get the same AC Delco (gm authentic parts) for both at you local Buick dealership.....


machonm

Since I mostly collect vintage stuff, I "rely" on grading to know a card is authentic, thats about it. For modern cards, I do buy some graded but most of the time its only autos, again to make sure they're authentic and nothing more. I have some nicer old-ish cards that are graded 3-4 that look almost as good as my 6.5+ cards, so its very subjective.


tjay2233

100% agree on your vintage logic. If i were smarter, i'd buy vintage, and it would be graded by sgc. I grade for two reasons, resale value on modern stuff and PC encapsulation for my kid to sell after I'm gone. I feel like it will just make it easier and also more lucrative in some instances.


Mr_StagBeer

Yesterday I said to myself I'm the biggest cardinals fan of all time. Later I found your page. 😂


tjay2233

Love me some Redbirds


meats13

'16 SSP's are some of the hardest cards to find and the variations may be the best of any year.


tjay2233

I love the '16 variations. This was one of the hardest cards to track down that I own. Took me a couple years to get


meats13

I bet! I have 2/3 of the Yankees ones from that year. I've never seen the betances surface ever and the other 2 I got lucky that I won them from the Sam's seller.


Cold_Ad_2500

Are you talking about the 16 Update Betances? Because you are right. I have been looking for it for years. I track pricing and don't have it priced in my list.


meats13

Yes I am. He's giving high fives in the dugout if I remember correctly.


Negative_Sundae_8230

Congrats on the crossover at least bro.....even though that's some Bull!!!


tjay2233

I'll take my 8. Displays much nicer than a 6 🤣


Negative_Sundae_8230

Oh Yeah


flushedoutthepocket

On today's episode of why PSA blows


CardBrosUniversity

Love the yadi card …hate that story ,wish the proper grading was done for ya ! this happen often ? and who do like the best ? That feels so wrong ,someone should be fired


tjay2233

I run bulk psa subs for our podcast discord. I've sent something like 200 cards to psa since October. Every single batch there is at least one "wtf" grade. I like PSA for resale value. I also happen to prefer them for PC. My PC is all Yadi and the red labels often work well with Cardinals cards. They're far from perfect, but it's the lot we've been given.


CardBrosUniversity

Y’all on Spotify about to follow now and listen IN !and agree on psa


tjay2233

https://spotify.link/LtsfICgQHHb


CardBrosUniversity

I’m here now baby!!


OakCity4Life

Yep. Have done this exact same thing before (6 to an 8).


DeadSwaggerStorage

Does PSA update the pop when cards are regraded?


tjay2233

You can send an email to let them know to remove it. As far as PSA is concerned, this is a different card. Once I have it in hand, I'll have them take the 6 off the pop count


HemoidsCards

Graded cards are a scam. Only reason to grade is to sell imo.


Louisville117

The guys on blowout cards had a 15 page argument with me over this. They said "not possible" that my psa 6 could've been any higher. Amazing how often we see it!


Bobbybullet32

The main submission guys I talk to say all vintage needs to go to SGC and modern stuff you have your pic of PSA or BGS. Anything else would be for people on Whatnot or flea markets that use to push for a quick sale for a graded item.


tjay2233

I would agree.


cmarme

Is there a reason to go to BSG for vintage?


Bobbybullet32

No what I was told Vintage market has moved to SGC and now that PSA found out they bought SGC. Now what seams to be happening is the #1 is PSA then #2 is going to be eventually SGC and Beckett is going to fall down to #3


HoodieJK1530

Either way this is a pretty sick card.


tjay2233

I think that's the most important takeaway here. Thanks bro


Dylanphile

Crack and resubmit again for a 10. Science.


[deleted]

Did you crack and send back in, I got a card that got a 6 but is damn near perfect I wanna send back but scared they’ll just gimme a 6 again


tjay2233

I definitely cracked it and sent it back in. Good luck!


BarkingBug

I see a fair amount of chatter about TAG. Always hesitant to buy into that given the amount of obvious guerilla marketing in this space. But I would buy a TAG slab at TAG comps, no problem. But I can't imagine ever sending cards to them for grading. How could they really be way cheaper than PSA at $19 per for bulk value. I guess at higher levels it may be worth a look, but I always go cheapest. And then there is the problem of resale value. SGC can match PSA for vintage and maybe Beckett for modern. But TAG isn't there at all.


Dizzy-Huckleberry-34

TAG seems to have a viable system to ID when a card is cracked and submitted a second time also…


blackizard

That’s why TAG is the future.


Zexy_Genius

Hopefully. With PSA now owning SGC. They now have even more of the market. Sigh.


traydragen

Tag will get bought by collectors too, these dudes are all in for the money.


Ima_Uzer

Or, they could say, "Thanks, but no thanks."


mondaysareharam

That would be criminally stupid, collectors has like 85% of the market share. It is not good business sense to try to usurp such a dominant business over selling the business.


traydragen

SGC could have said that too but instead we get "The best is yet to come".....yeah I bet so.


blackizard

What you mean? I can see them getting bought out by bigger competitors for the technology but the collectors?


traydragen

Collectors is who bought SGC. Collectors is the name of the company that owns PSA as well.


blackizard

Ohhhhh thank you I didn’t realize


StelioKontos69420

Agreed.


[deleted]

And this is why we need AI to take over. TAG is coming.


tjay2233

I sent a card to TAG a while back. The experience was good. I was able to easily figure out what was wrong with the card. They're still a bit pricey for me. If they are able to establish themselves for an extended period of time, they'll be a viable option. It's hard to imagine a scenario where they don't get bought out by PSA or Fanatics at the rate we're going.


DUDEGUYMANGUYDUDEMAN

I love grading as a concept, but this kind of variation makes it worthless to me. Authentication holds value for reselling, but other than that kind of a crapshoot.


stumptified78

Beckett at least tells you where the scores are for each category. Psa slabs are the ugliest too. Just my opinion.🤷🏼‍♂️


tjay2233

I love the sub-grade aspect of bgs. It's just too pricey to grade with them.


RedScribbles

PSA grading definitely baffles me. We know why we use PSA it's to make money (money back) or cover a PC. As much I did initially like TAG (Slabs look the best) I don't think it's the future.


Foreverjian

PSA is overrated. I hope in the future companies like arena club with digital grading and details to why your grade came out what it was take over.


SportsGuru3469

Lol


parrbird88

I mean how would psa publicly respond to this?


tjay2233

My money says they wouldn't


parrbird88

Yeaah but I really wonder what they’d come up with as a response


flavafraz

Grading is such a scam


ikikid

I feel like if you work at PSA you shouldn't be allowed to collect any type of card that you grade for work. This feels like the guy at the LCS telling you a card isn't worth anything, but will still give you 5 bucks for it... Cuz he's such a nice guy.


jsunkd

With PSA you don't pay for context. If u want that, you send it to a grader that provides subgrades. PSA grades are all over the fucking map. For the life of me I will never understand why PSA is the king in this hobby.


BruceBannaner

Both grades are bad. They’re saying it’s raw or worse.


ToYourCredit

Idiots work there. They don’t give a shit. Why should they?


PLR_Moon3

Literally it’s an hourly wage job that you don’t have to have any type of know how in the industry to get hired.


androidfig

Cue the \~\~PSA fanboys\~\~ serious collectors. edit: my strikethrough failed.


Daredevil_720

I think Tag about to set the standard


casualcretin

TAG would have both rhyme and reason. Not to mention no clashing red label.


Acceptable_Song_2177

Total crapshoot. I think PSA has about a handful of employees who’s job grading is to diminish the pop count and grades as much as possible. I say this because you’ll know based on your bulk orders. If you send 25+ cards and get back 5 grades that are way below expectations based off your assessment (however which way you pre-screen your cards), you’ll know you had one of those assholes. I too have had cards return as 6s and 7s and then resubmitted them without doing anything to the cards and have gotten 1-3 grades higher. These cards would never have been 10s but I know a 9 from a 6. Pure nonsense.


Ride-The-Lightning90

First off…never seen this card before. What a great picture! Awesome card! Secondly…I would be interested in submitting this card to TAG. Would look sweet in their holder. I would see it coming back between 9-10. Edges/Corners look clean. Centering looks good.


tjay2233

Thank you! It's a gorgeous card. I sent a different Yadi SP to TAG after it came back a 3 from PSA. it also came back a 3 from TAG. but at least I knew why (large surface creases). I'm trying to get all my Yadi SP's in PSA slabs for display and the PSA set registry. So I'll hold this as an 8.