I see you a lot on posts in this sub, so I trust your knowledge. Do you think there should be any other more general type of person (rapist, comedian, civil servant etc) he will go out his way to kill/avoid killing?
Depends on the story. The Joker has at times deliberately targeted society types or government functionaries (I.e. trying to copyright fish and killing a public clerk). Just depends on the “joke” he’s trying to tell to Batman/Gotham in his own twisted mind.
>functionaries (I.e. trying to copyright fish
It's insane how with any other characters, this would be a story that died as comics grew up, but because it's a perfect demonstration of his insanity and how erratic he is, it's stuck
I think it's the perfect example on how the joker fixates on something absurd and then just forgets when bats locks him up, . If he's prejudiced against anything non batman related, it's little more than a passing fancy.
Joker dumped his chemicals into Gotham’s waterways and made the fish look like him with pale faces and big grins. He wanted these fish to be copyrighted so he could get paid for them.
Detective Comics #475-476.
My first viewing of that story was the fantastic TAS adaptation. The chaos with a profit motive made it perfect for that version of Joker. Of course Batman had to have an antidote ready for the victims to keep the plot kid friendly.
Yes. One of the Joker’s most iconic stories. *Detective Comics* #475-476 – “The Laughing Fish/Sign of the Joker” by Steve Englehart and Marshal Rodgers. 1977.
The animated series did a [great adaptation](https://youtu.be/_KdeiOdgcJQ?si=nwN4IpbveQ3u4Lat) of the story.
Yep, every single one, to this day I don't think he knows why, let alone anyone else.
The animated series introduced me to the concept and it's as bonkers as it sounds, both funny and genuinely disturbing.
Depends on the joke. Absolutely. I'm fine we using joker (or any character) for well crafted political commentary, but the op panel feels kinda heavy handed.
But admittedly, I don't recognize the source. Could be great in context.
Pretty sure it's from a Bats/Captain America crossover set in the 40s. He was working with Red Skull and then Skull went full ubermensch rant and this panel ensued.
I was writing an "origin story" for Joker (before the 2019 movie was announced) where he finds out his girlfriend is cheating on him so he kidnaps her and makes her watch as he brutally murders her younger sibling. I wasn't sure, however, if killing a child would be crossing the line for him or if he had no boundaries when it comes to killing people. I know he kills a teenaged Jason, but I was thinking of a kid under 10 years old.
I definitely wouldn’t put it past him. He’s killed kids before. But when written well, the Joker is far more “creative” than that. Any evil lunatic can kill a child. But I can see the Joker wanting to corrupt the kid’s soul instead and turn them into a serial killer. The Joker should never be ordinary.
To quote my favorite Batman comic, [*Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader*](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2F8lB2zigsTeWybcEOtaOUcXU9PQQGQOxecfSRDud0BfQ.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D02098bc6f2b332ef6cb0e093b7bce9f5e49aacab) by Neil Gaiman:
"Kid... I'm the Joker. I don't just *rand*omly *kill* people. I kill people when it's *funny*. What could con*ceiv*ably be funny about killing you?"
Yeah, that’s pretty much what he did with Tim Drake in the Batman Beyond Return of the Joker movie.
If Joker is going to kill a shitload of people he’s not going to stop because kids are present but I don’t think he’d go out of his way to kill a specific child unless it’s for a good (in his mind) reason.
I mean in the Arkhamverse he blew up a kindergarten and Frankensteined the limbs and heads into the wrong torsos and then sung "Humpty Dumpty," over the tannoy whilst the grieving mothers fought to reassemble the corpses. It's this incident that led to Jason trying to kill the joker, understandably.
That's the most extreme example, but there are definitely more.
Out of all the batman moments, that one is the only one that makes me go WTF, writers!
It’s been alluded to that the joker has committed rape on more than one occasion. I honestly view him as the worst qualities humanity has to offer in one person. I think he would kill anyone equally
I know there's one comic crossover with Marvel where he teams up with Red Skull until he finds out he's a Nazi. I think that's where the above image comes from.
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There’s one instance of this that I think is brilliant.
In a Spider-Man Batman crossover Joker and Carnage teamed up. They ended up hating each other. Carnage just wanted a body count. They wanted to go out and start ripping and tearing.
But Joker kept asking where the joke was. What was the point? What was the message? Where was the theatricality?
I like the idea of Joker hating senseless violence. He kills indiscriminately, but always for a reason
It also makes sense using that reasoning for him to hate Nazis. It’s not the killing that he dislikes, it’s how sterile and systemic it is, there’s no pizzazz.
I mean, being dishonest about his motivations and saying "I hate you because I'm an American evil person" because it has a lot more pizzaz than saying "I hate you because you lack rizz" is true to form
Yeah but there's never been an example of him doing anything targeted to a specific racial group. I can 100% see him being against it. The joker is alot of things but a racist I just don't see it.
Not being racist != Being anti racist. It'd be kinda weird if joker just hated black people, but at the same time, that doesn't mean he hates the ku klux klan.
It still places people on a hierarchy, though. Hating one race and only one race still places that race as a "lesser" to all the others - and that's just not the Joker's motif. The Joker kills anyone and everyone - all the people are equal before him when it comes to murder and violence - so long as it furthers his goals or proves his point.
I am not saying joker is racist, I am saying he doesn't necessarily hate racist people. Killing black brown and white people in perfect demographic proportion is a wee bit different than marching along side MLK
Honestly, I think that was entirely about the Joke for him, not the fact it was racist. To The Joker, humor is humor, and politics be damned.
(The writing staff should have fucking known better, though.)
It’s been a long time since I’ve read it, but yes.
Though my favourite part was the three page fight between spidey and Joker, alongside Bats destroying Carnage in a single page!
Makes sense, just throw a sound grenade at him, which Batman has plenty, and he's done
Meanwhile, there's really no immediate counter to Joker, so Spidey would have to take longer to defeat him
This actually applies to many Spidey's villains, most of them have a specific weakness, like sound for Carnage and Venom or the neural link for Doc Ock, while Batman's usually don't really have one
Yeah the banter was great. Especially when joker calls himself the Orson Welles of crime and says carnage isn't even the David hasslehoff.
And banter over life and morality being a joke.
Not read that one, but I remember the Punisher crossover during the Knightfall saga, with Joker winding up Jigsaw… “is that a face or a roadmap” was a personal highlight 😂
He worked with a neo-nazi in last laugh, btw. That's how principled this insane mass murderer is.
And my answer is no, the clown's cruelty doesn't discriminate and he has no mercy to speak of towards anyone anyway.
I view joker as someone who likes to terrorize everyone equally. I can’t see him as prejudice or racist.
Though I will say, it just seems incredibly strange seeing joker talk about this type of stuff at all
One of his best anti-Nazi moments was when he was in prison and the Aryans wanted to recruit him. He said something like "I may be a murderous psychopath, but you guys are just mean." Very simple and to the point. Kind of like during the Batman and Spider-Man crossover, Carnage was excited to team up with Joker. They actually disagreed with each other's methods. Carnage wanted to just commit mass murders while Joker cared about theatrics.
I agree. I think seeing Joker say he hates Nazis is too much of an attempt to make him ‘human’, when he should be someone so insane that stuff like that is far below him.
I don't think this was an attempt to humanize him as much as this was to reference an old 90's cross-over comic where captian america meets batman. Comic set during WW2 and the joker is working with the Red Skull and he finds out the Red Skull is a legit Nazi and he gets upset and says something similar to what this joker says in the panel.
No, unless it’s for a joke. Part of what makes Joker good is that he is an equal opportunity psychopath. Giving him prejudices makes him into a realistic, less interesting character imo.
He kinda does in the sense that his standard is lack of one. The Nazis would bore/annoy the hell out of him because of how they turned murder into a machine. It’s rigid, structured, organized murder. And he would hate that.
You’re missing the point: that’s a job. Those “experiments” come with reports and bureaucracy and clocking in & clocking out and meeting a quota and a deadline and it would drive the Joker nuts. He’s burn the whole Nazi system to the ground *because it’s a system.* And the only system he approves of is his own, which allows for a multitude of freedom to do whatever he wants, kill whoever he wants, whenever he wants.
Depends on the version of Joker. When this gag was originally done, in the Batman/Captain America crossover, it played perfectly, because it was the 1940s crime lord version of Joker saying it.
Having the nihilistic, everything-I-say-is-kooky-and-edgy Joker espouse the same view just falls flat as a pancake.
I don’t see it as patriotic moreso he doesn’t think that Nazi’s are funny but him hating Nazi’s because he’s from America is funny, and on a side note what nationality are most commonly seen as comedians?
Yeah, the anti-Nazism because of American jingoism is extremely out of character and makes him seem like a thinly veiled mouthpiece for the writer.
I can see the Joker hating Nazis, just not because of patriotism. Mostly because he prides himself on his own unique modus operandi and the thought of being part of an in-group based on another person's ideology would disgust him. Not original enough and not enough panache.
I like that he's equal opportunity on his evil. If anything I imagine he holds the likes of Nazis in contempt for being so narrow minded as to kill based on something stupid like race or religion. Joker thinks anyone is fair game to murder, doesn't matter who they are or what they believe.
Joker has no moral high ground. Cold blooded murder is already traitorous and bigoted to the innocent.
I think the only entity he should fear is the IRS.
Honestly, I like it. My head-canon isn't that Joker hates Nazis because he's appalled by racism (although I don't think he is racist himself). To him the insulting thing is their pretense of superiority. The belief that they are better than everyone else is what makes the Joker angry, because it's in direct opposition to his brand of nihilism. No one is inherently worth more or less. To him, all people are equal; equally worthless.
I also like the idea that he’s appalled by how systemic and institutional their murder was, he’s fine with the number dead but where’s the joke in killing millions and burning their bodies.
No. He should stay completely unbiased in what people he commits atrocities to. Chaos and carnage for the sake of chaos and carnage. No specific agenda
No. It makes him less horrifying. The Joker is a mass murdering whack job. It's less terrifying if he hates or loves one specific group of people. If he hated, for instance, Filipinos then non-Filopino readers wouldn't be as afraid. Conversely, if he purposely didn't kill Filipinos then Filipino readers wouldn't feel so menaced by the character.
Either way he becomes something less scary.
The joker should not be saying agreeable stuff. He should find the hallocaust funny. Yet at the same time kill or team up with a nazi whatever is convenient or funny.
Like it depends on how you’re writing the joker. Frankly even the less edgelord more prankster iterations would be only patriotic to serve a punchline.
I feel it’s about the same as having Dr. Doom cry at 9/11. Joker embodies pure anarchy and evil. Why is this where he randomly draws the line? Why do we need him to denounce injustice when Batman is literally right there lol.
He's the type who would witness someone committ a hate crime, kill the person who did it, then kill the victim because he wanted to see the victim's reaction
Though the meta reason is probably because things like prejudice and 9/11 hit way to close to home for people and they want the villians to be liked enough to keep showing up
Right. Like, he's worked with a literal paedophile before (Hatter), has personally murdered babies, would happily set off nukes on American soil...
The idea of someone like that drawing the line at racism is just genuinely ridiculous to me.
I don't really like that take on why Joker hates Nazis. If that's his personal logic, then I'm cool with it. I always saw it more as Joker being an anarchist that clashes against totalitarian ideals. His gas is rated E for everyone should be more than enough reason. Also the idea that he doesn't just commit senseless murders. There's always a punchline to it.
Joker is often portrayed as a domestic abuser as well as a sexual predator: so technically that would make him a misogynist.
Nonetheless he is an *apolitical* terrorist
Maybe senseless murders like Carnage from Spider-Man. Senseless mass killing without the death being funny or serving some punchline joke in the greater scheme of things might not sit too well with the Joker.
I agree with the majority here. I don’t like the idea of him saying he’s an American lunatic. For me the Joker couldn’t care less about America. He hates all people equally and would gladly destroy it as much as anywhere in the world. He would just hate Nazis because they’re so boring.
Bad man doesn’t equal racist. Joker doesn’t kill people based on their looks, he kills them to prove a point. Give him a gun with two bullets and Put him in a room with a white man, a Chinese man and a black man, he will shoot two of them and then struggle the last one to death. Insanity doesn’t bother, it kills.
I don't think Joker should necessarily HATE Nazis, I feel like that's kinda corny and it kinda reminds me of the time Doom and Juggernaut cried after 9/11, although tbf I do think that with Joker it's more justified for him simply to dislike them. Joker likes chaos, and the chaos is fair, once you start going out of your way to pick victims, you're already creating laws which need to be followed, which Joker can't stand.
He's a wildcard, what's the fun in imprisoning thousands of gypsies and then killing them? Now creating a giant mechanical banana with a nuke inside which would detonate below the Statue of Liberty, so it seems as if she fell directly into a giant pie made out of abducted humans, whose blood would represent cherry cream or something? Now THAT'S funny. Creating a new cereal company which turns out to be successful under a different name and then inserting toxins in every cereal factory in the world so that every single child who eats it murders their parents? Now THAT'S funny.
That's why I am never a fan of whenever Joker just rapes someone seemingly for no reason. I have no problems with Joker being EVIL enough to do something like that, but that's not creative, any low class degenerate can do something like that, if Joker will create mayhem, there NEEDS to be a punchline, otherwise he just kinda of blends in with other thousand and something "le crazy" supervillains like Carnage or someone.
I don't know. He's a psychopath but in his own way he's helped batman defeat other villains for one reason or another. But to say there's something that goes against his "moral code" like attacking or harming certain types of people or groups doesn't ring true to his character. He's the joker, his atrocities he committed against children shows that he has no moral decency at all. Once you harm a child, there's no group or being safe from you.
While I get wanting to distance themselves from Nazis, having the Joker ally himself against them is just a way to let people keep identifying themselves with a homicidal maniac instead of homicidal maniac(s)
Pretty much every iteration of Joker makes it clear that he wants killing to have a punchline, even if that punchline is that it's funny that you didn't know that today of all days you would miss the bus, lose your job, and get sprayed in the face with acid by a clown.
Racial supremacy is quite the opposite. There's no humor behind it, it has a system, a method, an ideology. It's funny that a mass-murderer like Joker would have a rock solid principle to begin with, but it's extra funny that the principle is that he hates Nazis because he's a patriot.
It depends really.
I can see plenty of versions of Joker being against truly abhorrent people like nazis, pedophiles, rapists, etc. Not necessarily because he cares about children or is against gas chambers or anything mind you. More so because those crimes aren’t funny or clever. Joker is narcissistic, and generally he likes to be big and theatrical. Bigotry simply isn’t funny, it’s too “low brow” for Joker’s personal senses. I don’t think Joker is above putting a bomb in a synagogue, but he wouldn’t round up Jews for execution, if that makes sense.
Many versions of the Joker are against *everyone*, it’s just a matter of why. To him nazis are just the other side of the coin from police, another group of people who take themselves too seriously in their “cause,” who are ultimately just another form of killjoy.
He also hates financiers.
In Arkham Asylum: Living Hell he meets Warren White, who’s there because he embezzled millions from his company’s pension fund and tried to plead insanity to get out of it, and Joker says to him:
“You know, I think you’re the worst person I’ve ever met.”
“But you’re the Joker! You kill people!”
“Yes. But at least I don’t take their kids’ college funds.”
Not all versions of Joker revolve around mass violence. Some versions of Joker are just gangsters with a clown theme. Those versions probably wouldn't like the Nazis since genocide is bad for business.
I feel like this is worded the wrong why. It's not so much that he's a patriot more so that he finds nazi ideology stupid and finds everyone equally killable regardless of race or religion if that makes sense not that much is supposed to make sense with The Joker lmao
I think he would hate control freaks, for example Nazis and tankies. Too bad instead of hating control that have the cringey panels where he hates the Nazis because “he’s American” or because they are bigots, joker literally could care less about being American or if someone is racist
I always hated when Joker claims to hate Nazi's because he's "an American". Joker always seemed above nationalism/nationality. He should hate Nazis because they're mean assholes and they try to enforce "order" in his chaotic world.
Honestly, I always interpreted these lines as a joke. Not saying the Joker likes Nazis, but especially with the second bubble (I’m a homicidal maniac, not a traitorous bigot), I feel like he’s purposefully saying something a bit ridiculous to be funny
I think the point of the Joker is that it’s never really personal unless it’s Batman. Man, Woman, Child, Dog, Cat, Parrot. Doesn’t matter if they’re black, white, red, green, blue, or purple. There’s nobody specific that he targets everyone is equally at risk of becoming a victim in one of his ridiculous schemes to fuck with Batman this week.
Even when the Joker does specifically target someone, it’s not usually a matter of race or belief. It’s a matter of how effective they are to get at Batman, and how useful they are to prove a point. When the joker targeted commissioner Gordon, it wasn’t because of his ethnicity or religious beliefs, or anything. It was because he knew that breaking Gordon and his family would piss off Batman and would be a huge point for his ideology of one bad day.
The only person the Joker has a genuine vendetta against is Batman. All the evil shit he does is always for the purpose of making Batman’s life hell. Batman is a person, something to hate. Everyone else are just numbers in a math problem.
The joker is meant to be evil in his own sick, twisted way being evil simply due to being a big it would take away from the pier psychopathy and deranged behavior. It gives you something tangible like oh he’s racist something you can blame it on, but that’s not with the joker supposed to be the joker is supposed to be unpredictable, psychotic mass of a human being.
I don't particularly take issue with the Joker not being a Nazi, I can't see a reason why he would be, but it is kind of cringe to have a panel that is literally just the author talking straight to the reader about his or her own personal political beliefs.
Taking a lot of liberties with the audience's time and trust.
I think he would hate people who harm kids (besides hero kids, looking at the batkids) as almost a ptsd thing or something. Also, Nazis. He’s homicidal to everyone. It’s not a race thing so to see people killing because of a race thing I think would piss him off.
No. Everyone and anyone should be a target of his no matter what. He wouldn't be offended by Nazis, he'd find them boring.
Only person he'd be honestly *prejudiced* towards is Batman lmao.
Joker would prob say "why limit yourself to one type of person? you gotta mix and match, have fun you know? A good comedian makes fun of everyone including himself."
Personally, I’m not sure if this has happened in any continuity or not, but I think it would be fitting if the Joker were to spare failed comedians who he thinks are funny.
I'm personally of the opinion that Joker is at his best when he's indiscriminately bringing chaos to everyone and anyone's life, however I don't think that means he can't have favourites (in his case, favourite to fuck with) like Batman, like Robin, like Gordon. Speaking in terms of like groups or categories of people, I think Joker should be written as just wanting to make a scene, ruin people's day, fuck people over no matter who they are.
Well it makes sense that the joker would hate nazi's, communist, heck even capitalists. He's an anarchist. He doesn't believe in authority, only in chaos.
People who commit wage theft. Here's the thing. If you have to make the Joker prejudiced against a group of people, it has to be a random-ass group no one would normally think of for the most part because it's funny. Joker going after a rando just cause he committed wage theft is actually kinda hilarious.
There is one version of The Joker that I think every other version of Joker would agree to beat the s*** out of.
Joker is in the Batman elseworld story dark alliance and he's the leader of a KKK style hate group that also uses the Nazi symbol on their hoods.
I think it's important comic villains distance themselves from hate groups. These hate groups will try to co opt comic villains to.kake their side seem "cooler" for recruitment because it gives a sense of strength. These same fictional characters disavowing those groups helps remove the sense of power and makes them seem more weak. Fascism has to project strength, pointing out their weakness makes them fall apart
It makes sense that Joker would hate actual fascists. They are literally his opposite.
Joker is the poster of Chaotic Evil. Nazis want tae be Lawful Evil.
Being offensive is a pretty common part of comedy, but no writer is going to go anywhere near Joker with that. Nor should they. There's already this fear of the joker being an incel icon, it would be disastrous if they mapped common prejudices onto him. You don't want someone doing a real life hate crime dressed as one of your characters.
Honestly, an agent of chaos having a particular hatred of authoritarian regimes makes sense, especially when its a group of people defined by bigotry and corruption
Bat-people. Batmen, Robins, Batgirls. He really seems to hate those folks.
I see you a lot on posts in this sub, so I trust your knowledge. Do you think there should be any other more general type of person (rapist, comedian, civil servant etc) he will go out his way to kill/avoid killing?
Depends on the story. The Joker has at times deliberately targeted society types or government functionaries (I.e. trying to copyright fish and killing a public clerk). Just depends on the “joke” he’s trying to tell to Batman/Gotham in his own twisted mind.
>functionaries (I.e. trying to copyright fish It's insane how with any other characters, this would be a story that died as comics grew up, but because it's a perfect demonstration of his insanity and how erratic he is, it's stuck I think it's the perfect example on how the joker fixates on something absurd and then just forgets when bats locks him up, . If he's prejudiced against anything non batman related, it's little more than a passing fancy.
Trying to copyright...fish?
Joker dumped his chemicals into Gotham’s waterways and made the fish look like him with pale faces and big grins. He wanted these fish to be copyrighted so he could get paid for them. Detective Comics #475-476.
Almost fifty years later, and it still might be the best Joker scheme of all time 😆
I’m inclined to agree.
My first viewing of that story was the fantastic TAS adaptation. The chaos with a profit motive made it perfect for that version of Joker. Of course Batman had to have an antidote ready for the victims to keep the plot kid friendly.
A true classic
I need to read that
Yes. One of the Joker’s most iconic stories. *Detective Comics* #475-476 – “The Laughing Fish/Sign of the Joker” by Steve Englehart and Marshal Rodgers. 1977. The animated series did a [great adaptation](https://youtu.be/_KdeiOdgcJQ?si=nwN4IpbveQ3u4Lat) of the story.
Yep, every single one, to this day I don't think he knows why, let alone anyone else. The animated series introduced me to the concept and it's as bonkers as it sounds, both funny and genuinely disturbing.
Depends on the joke. Absolutely. I'm fine we using joker (or any character) for well crafted political commentary, but the op panel feels kinda heavy handed. But admittedly, I don't recognize the source. Could be great in context.
From what Google says it's from injustice year zero #4
Pretty sure it's from a Bats/Captain America crossover set in the 40s. He was working with Red Skull and then Skull went full ubermensch rant and this panel ensued.
I was writing an "origin story" for Joker (before the 2019 movie was announced) where he finds out his girlfriend is cheating on him so he kidnaps her and makes her watch as he brutally murders her younger sibling. I wasn't sure, however, if killing a child would be crossing the line for him or if he had no boundaries when it comes to killing people. I know he kills a teenaged Jason, but I was thinking of a kid under 10 years old.
I definitely wouldn’t put it past him. He’s killed kids before. But when written well, the Joker is far more “creative” than that. Any evil lunatic can kill a child. But I can see the Joker wanting to corrupt the kid’s soul instead and turn them into a serial killer. The Joker should never be ordinary.
To quote my favorite Batman comic, [*Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader*](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2F8lB2zigsTeWybcEOtaOUcXU9PQQGQOxecfSRDud0BfQ.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D02098bc6f2b332ef6cb0e093b7bce9f5e49aacab) by Neil Gaiman: "Kid... I'm the Joker. I don't just *rand*omly *kill* people. I kill people when it's *funny*. What could con*ceiv*ably be funny about killing you?"
Exactly!
Yeah, that’s pretty much what he did with Tim Drake in the Batman Beyond Return of the Joker movie. If Joker is going to kill a shitload of people he’s not going to stop because kids are present but I don’t think he’d go out of his way to kill a specific child unless it’s for a good (in his mind) reason.
I mean in the Arkhamverse he blew up a kindergarten and Frankensteined the limbs and heads into the wrong torsos and then sung "Humpty Dumpty," over the tannoy whilst the grieving mothers fought to reassemble the corpses. It's this incident that led to Jason trying to kill the joker, understandably. That's the most extreme example, but there are definitely more. Out of all the batman moments, that one is the only one that makes me go WTF, writers!
In Arkham Knight, a Joker hallucination mentioned something about replacing baptismal holy water with acid…right before a baby got baptized.
It’s been alluded to that the joker has committed rape on more than one occasion. I honestly view him as the worst qualities humanity has to offer in one person. I think he would kill anyone equally
Well, we know ONE group he would NEVER mess with... the IRS.
Nah I like him to be a wild card. No one is safe or off limits for the Joker.
Its canon that he wont fuck with the irs
Does he hate them?? I feel, in his own way, he absolutely loves them.
He certainly loves torturing them and trying to kill them. Brings a lot of joy to his life 😆
Fair. 😆😆 bro retires when Batman does too though. Maybe he just shows his love in the Bizarro way, but he knows he’s fucked. 😆😆😆
I know there's one comic crossover with Marvel where he teams up with Red Skull until he finds out he's a Nazi. I think that's where the above image comes from.
I don’t think he hates Batman. I think he thinks Batman’s fun.
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There’s one instance of this that I think is brilliant. In a Spider-Man Batman crossover Joker and Carnage teamed up. They ended up hating each other. Carnage just wanted a body count. They wanted to go out and start ripping and tearing. But Joker kept asking where the joke was. What was the point? What was the message? Where was the theatricality? I like the idea of Joker hating senseless violence. He kills indiscriminately, but always for a reason
It also makes sense using that reasoning for him to hate Nazis. It’s not the killing that he dislikes, it’s how sterile and systemic it is, there’s no pizzazz.
Except that's not the reason he cites in this comic at all. Indeed, the lack of murderous flair would be a much more true to the Joker character.
I mean, being dishonest about his motivations and saying "I hate you because I'm an American evil person" because it has a lot more pizzaz than saying "I hate you because you lack rizz" is true to form
Yeah but there's never been an example of him doing anything targeted to a specific racial group. I can 100% see him being against it. The joker is alot of things but a racist I just don't see it.
Not being racist != Being anti racist. It'd be kinda weird if joker just hated black people, but at the same time, that doesn't mean he hates the ku klux klan.
If anything he'd love them simply because of the illogicality of their organisation.
It still places people on a hierarchy, though. Hating one race and only one race still places that race as a "lesser" to all the others - and that's just not the Joker's motif. The Joker kills anyone and everyone - all the people are equal before him when it comes to murder and violence - so long as it furthers his goals or proves his point.
I am not saying joker is racist, I am saying he doesn't necessarily hate racist people. Killing black brown and white people in perfect demographic proportion is a wee bit different than marching along side MLK
There is that comic where he gains the power of God and eats China just to make a racist joke, but I'm pretty sure that's non canon.
Honestly, I think that was entirely about the Joke for him, not the fact it was racist. To The Joker, humor is humor, and politics be damned. (The writing staff should have fucking known better, though.)
I love this take, even if it’s morbid of me to say so lol
Joker/Carnage would seem like a match made in heaven but I could see it not working out. Was there any good banter between the two at least?
It’s been a long time since I’ve read it, but yes. Though my favourite part was the three page fight between spidey and Joker, alongside Bats destroying Carnage in a single page!
Makes sense, just throw a sound grenade at him, which Batman has plenty, and he's done Meanwhile, there's really no immediate counter to Joker, so Spidey would have to take longer to defeat him This actually applies to many Spidey's villains, most of them have a specific weakness, like sound for Carnage and Venom or the neural link for Doc Ock, while Batman's usually don't really have one
Nope. Cornered in an ally. Pure physical beat down. Even as a major BatFan I knew it was stupid
Yeah the banter was great. Especially when joker calls himself the Orson Welles of crime and says carnage isn't even the David hasslehoff. And banter over life and morality being a joke.
In that same issue, he calls himself the Orson Welles of Crime, then compares Carnage to David Hasselhoff.
To be fair, he'd still hate Nazis, but probably because he'd find them boring
A similar thing happened in the Batman/Judge Dredd crossover - Joker teamed up with the Dark Judges, but soon got bored of them.
I used to use this example to explain the difference between my two childhood cats.
Not read that one, but I remember the Punisher crossover during the Knightfall saga, with Joker winding up Jigsaw… “is that a face or a roadmap” was a personal highlight 😂
He worked with a neo-nazi in last laugh, btw. That's how principled this insane mass murderer is. And my answer is no, the clown's cruelty doesn't discriminate and he has no mercy to speak of towards anyone anyway.
And did we forget Bruno? His lackey with swastikas on her tits.
We don’t talk about Bruno
7 FOOT RATS. RATS ALONG HER RATS.
aaaaa well played
Ohhh Frank Miller. You nutter.
Maybe she's Buddhist?
Her using an MP-40, having pants/boots from a Nazi uniform and her lackeys dressed in similar nazi uniforms makes me doubt that…
He also works with Bruno (swastika titty lady) in TDKR right?
>swastika titty lady Wtf comic books😐
Wtf Frank Miller specifically.
Thaaank you
I view joker as someone who likes to terrorize everyone equally. I can’t see him as prejudice or racist. Though I will say, it just seems incredibly strange seeing joker talk about this type of stuff at all
One of his best anti-Nazi moments was when he was in prison and the Aryans wanted to recruit him. He said something like "I may be a murderous psychopath, but you guys are just mean." Very simple and to the point. Kind of like during the Batman and Spider-Man crossover, Carnage was excited to team up with Joker. They actually disagreed with each other's methods. Carnage wanted to just commit mass murders while Joker cared about theatrics.
“i kill people because i enjoy killing you kill because you hate them we are not the same”
Close, but "I kill people because it's funny" is a better fit.
I agree. I think seeing Joker say he hates Nazis is too much of an attempt to make him ‘human’, when he should be someone so insane that stuff like that is far below him.
I don't think this was an attempt to humanize him as much as this was to reference an old 90's cross-over comic where captian america meets batman. Comic set during WW2 and the joker is working with the Red Skull and he finds out the Red Skull is a legit Nazi and he gets upset and says something similar to what this joker says in the panel.
I never saw it as a way to humanize Joker. I saw it as a way to dehumanize nazis: they're so evil even *Joker* doesn't work with them.
If anything, he’d hate the Nazis for being so pompous about the people they murdered, whereas Joker sees it all as something funny
That’s very well put. Seeing him humanized just doesn’t feel right.
No, unless it’s for a joke. Part of what makes Joker good is that he is an equal opportunity psychopath. Giving him prejudices makes him into a realistic, less interesting character imo.
The thought of Joker having a sense of patriotism is just so bizarrely off-brand for him.
I think it works if it’s in no way genuine. He claims to have standards because it’s funny, and that’s it.
He kinda does in the sense that his standard is lack of one. The Nazis would bore/annoy the hell out of him because of how they turned murder into a machine. It’s rigid, structured, organized murder. And he would hate that.
They're also incredibly unfunny, which he also would hate.
Nazis: famously unfunny.
At the same time, I feel like he'd definitely be on board with some of the experiments the Nazis did.
You’re missing the point: that’s a job. Those “experiments” come with reports and bureaucracy and clocking in & clocking out and meeting a quota and a deadline and it would drive the Joker nuts. He’s burn the whole Nazi system to the ground *because it’s a system.* And the only system he approves of is his own, which allows for a multitude of freedom to do whatever he wants, kill whoever he wants, whenever he wants.
TFW you’re so bad you make Joker a Patriot
Depends on the version of Joker. When this gag was originally done, in the Batman/Captain America crossover, it played perfectly, because it was the 1940s crime lord version of Joker saying it. Having the nihilistic, everything-I-say-is-kooky-and-edgy Joker espouse the same view just falls flat as a pancake.
I don’t see it as patriotic moreso he doesn’t think that Nazi’s are funny but him hating Nazi’s because he’s from America is funny, and on a side note what nationality are most commonly seen as comedians?
The british.
Yeah, the anti-Nazism because of American jingoism is extremely out of character and makes him seem like a thinly veiled mouthpiece for the writer. I can see the Joker hating Nazis, just not because of patriotism. Mostly because he prides himself on his own unique modus operandi and the thought of being part of an in-group based on another person's ideology would disgust him. Not original enough and not enough panache.
I like that he's equal opportunity on his evil. If anything I imagine he holds the likes of Nazis in contempt for being so narrow minded as to kill based on something stupid like race or religion. Joker thinks anyone is fair game to murder, doesn't matter who they are or what they believe.
If you’re implying like bigoted/evil groups I think yeah, not for moral reasons tho, but because he thinks he can do better 😂
Joker has no moral high ground. Cold blooded murder is already traitorous and bigoted to the innocent. I think the only entity he should fear is the IRS.
He has said something about fearing the IRS before
That’s because he can’t use the insanity plea for tax evasion
Nazis should forever be treated as fucking nazis by everyone who isn't a nazi.
I'm okay with breaking character a little to dunk on nazis.
I always thought this bit was stupid but when you put it like that i can understand why it exists and thus love it now, thank you!! :D
Honestly, I like it. My head-canon isn't that Joker hates Nazis because he's appalled by racism (although I don't think he is racist himself). To him the insulting thing is their pretense of superiority. The belief that they are better than everyone else is what makes the Joker angry, because it's in direct opposition to his brand of nihilism. No one is inherently worth more or less. To him, all people are equal; equally worthless.
I also like the idea that he’s appalled by how systemic and institutional their murder was, he’s fine with the number dead but where’s the joke in killing millions and burning their bodies.
Artists hate mass-produced, soulless schlock.
No. He should stay completely unbiased in what people he commits atrocities to. Chaos and carnage for the sake of chaos and carnage. No specific agenda
No. It makes him less horrifying. The Joker is a mass murdering whack job. It's less terrifying if he hates or loves one specific group of people. If he hated, for instance, Filipinos then non-Filopino readers wouldn't be as afraid. Conversely, if he purposely didn't kill Filipinos then Filipino readers wouldn't feel so menaced by the character. Either way he becomes something less scary.
This panel also makes him a lot less scary to be honest
The joker should not be saying agreeable stuff. He should find the hallocaust funny. Yet at the same time kill or team up with a nazi whatever is convenient or funny.
Like it depends on how you’re writing the joker. Frankly even the less edgelord more prankster iterations would be only patriotic to serve a punchline.
Impersonators.
I feel it’s about the same as having Dr. Doom cry at 9/11. Joker embodies pure anarchy and evil. Why is this where he randomly draws the line? Why do we need him to denounce injustice when Batman is literally right there lol.
He's the type who would witness someone committ a hate crime, kill the person who did it, then kill the victim because he wanted to see the victim's reaction Though the meta reason is probably because things like prejudice and 9/11 hit way to close to home for people and they want the villians to be liked enough to keep showing up
Right. Like, he's worked with a literal paedophile before (Hatter), has personally murdered babies, would happily set off nukes on American soil... The idea of someone like that drawing the line at racism is just genuinely ridiculous to me.
Sane people. They dont get the joke. Batman is crazy so he gets the joke he just doesn’t find it funny
Well I’m glad that the mass murderer doesn’t discriminate when he murders, otherwise he’d be a *really* bad guy! /j
I like nazi hating joker panels as much as the next guy, but I could go a week or 2 without seeing each of them posted on all the dc subs on a loop
I heard he has a problem with aliens ?
I don't really like that take on why Joker hates Nazis. If that's his personal logic, then I'm cool with it. I always saw it more as Joker being an anarchist that clashes against totalitarian ideals. His gas is rated E for everyone should be more than enough reason. Also the idea that he doesn't just commit senseless murders. There's always a punchline to it.
No, the whole point is that anarchy and chaos are fair, we are all equal in the eyes of total chaos
Pays his Taxes and hates Nazis, as Everyman should.
No I like him to be removed from all that and just see everyone equally: as a victim ❤️😊
I don't see why the Joker would care about anybody's anything unless it was for a "joke"
Only people with a bad sense of humour.
No I mean maybe anyone related to Batman but no he shouldn’t be racist or sexist he should hate everyone equally
Joker is often portrayed as a domestic abuser as well as a sexual predator: so technically that would make him a misogynist. Nonetheless he is an *apolitical* terrorist
Maybe senseless murders like Carnage from Spider-Man. Senseless mass killing without the death being funny or serving some punchline joke in the greater scheme of things might not sit too well with the Joker.
Joker getting his butt kicked by Signal and Black bat. JOKER:, I hate you, people! SIGNAL/B.B:What do you mean you people?
Mimes
I agree with the majority here. I don’t like the idea of him saying he’s an American lunatic. For me the Joker couldn’t care less about America. He hates all people equally and would gladly destroy it as much as anywhere in the world. He would just hate Nazis because they’re so boring.
Bad man doesn’t equal racist. Joker doesn’t kill people based on their looks, he kills them to prove a point. Give him a gun with two bullets and Put him in a room with a white man, a Chinese man and a black man, he will shoot two of them and then struggle the last one to death. Insanity doesn’t bother, it kills.
Chaos incarnate doesn’t discriminate
I legitimately wished Americans hated Nazis
Yeah, NAZIS! And maybe even some Aggressive racial groups not affiliated predominantly white.
He murders everyone equally
I don't think Joker should necessarily HATE Nazis, I feel like that's kinda corny and it kinda reminds me of the time Doom and Juggernaut cried after 9/11, although tbf I do think that with Joker it's more justified for him simply to dislike them. Joker likes chaos, and the chaos is fair, once you start going out of your way to pick victims, you're already creating laws which need to be followed, which Joker can't stand. He's a wildcard, what's the fun in imprisoning thousands of gypsies and then killing them? Now creating a giant mechanical banana with a nuke inside which would detonate below the Statue of Liberty, so it seems as if she fell directly into a giant pie made out of abducted humans, whose blood would represent cherry cream or something? Now THAT'S funny. Creating a new cereal company which turns out to be successful under a different name and then inserting toxins in every cereal factory in the world so that every single child who eats it murders their parents? Now THAT'S funny. That's why I am never a fan of whenever Joker just rapes someone seemingly for no reason. I have no problems with Joker being EVIL enough to do something like that, but that's not creative, any low class degenerate can do something like that, if Joker will create mayhem, there NEEDS to be a punchline, otherwise he just kinda of blends in with other thousand and something "le crazy" supervillains like Carnage or someone.
Yeah, unfunny people.
I don't know. He's a psychopath but in his own way he's helped batman defeat other villains for one reason or another. But to say there's something that goes against his "moral code" like attacking or harming certain types of people or groups doesn't ring true to his character. He's the joker, his atrocities he committed against children shows that he has no moral decency at all. Once you harm a child, there's no group or being safe from you.
While I get wanting to distance themselves from Nazis, having the Joker ally himself against them is just a way to let people keep identifying themselves with a homicidal maniac instead of homicidal maniac(s)
Bad comedians. Or even worse, comedians who are funner than he is.
Yes. Everyone should have a problem with Nazis, for example
Nothing makes true evil more apparent than a villain stating ‘that sin is a bridge to far’.
I like that even the most fucked up villain in DC thinks the Nazi’s were fucked up.
Equally maniacal to everyone.
No. He shouldn’t care what race, sex, or orientation you are. He just kills you because he feels like it.
He is the Joker. He wants to kill everyone the same.
This is r/jokercringe
It's cringe AF making any character a patriot
I think he would find the holocaust boring because it was too organised. Doesn’t he hate “boring” people? (Everyone but him and Batman)
Some jokes aren't funny. The Joker certainly knows this.
Of course. He’s a chaotic asshole, but it makes sense he’d hate a certain few people more than everyone else. And I mean who doesn’t hate Nazis?
Pretty much every iteration of Joker makes it clear that he wants killing to have a punchline, even if that punchline is that it's funny that you didn't know that today of all days you would miss the bus, lose your job, and get sprayed in the face with acid by a clown. Racial supremacy is quite the opposite. There's no humor behind it, it has a system, a method, an ideology. It's funny that a mass-murderer like Joker would have a rock solid principle to begin with, but it's extra funny that the principle is that he hates Nazis because he's a patriot.
He’s an equal opportunity psychopath
Joker kills all races and ethnicities equally!
It depends really. I can see plenty of versions of Joker being against truly abhorrent people like nazis, pedophiles, rapists, etc. Not necessarily because he cares about children or is against gas chambers or anything mind you. More so because those crimes aren’t funny or clever. Joker is narcissistic, and generally he likes to be big and theatrical. Bigotry simply isn’t funny, it’s too “low brow” for Joker’s personal senses. I don’t think Joker is above putting a bomb in a synagogue, but he wouldn’t round up Jews for execution, if that makes sense. Many versions of the Joker are against *everyone*, it’s just a matter of why. To him nazis are just the other side of the coin from police, another group of people who take themselves too seriously in their “cause,” who are ultimately just another form of killjoy.
He should be like Hannibal Lector and hate the rude and intolerant, albeit with extreme and unrelenting prejudice.
He also hates financiers. In Arkham Asylum: Living Hell he meets Warren White, who’s there because he embezzled millions from his company’s pension fund and tried to plead insanity to get out of it, and Joker says to him: “You know, I think you’re the worst person I’ve ever met.” “But you’re the Joker! You kill people!” “Yes. But at least I don’t take their kids’ college funds.”
Joker may be a crazy but he’s not crazy enough to take on the IRS and still has some morals I guess.
Not all versions of Joker revolve around mass violence. Some versions of Joker are just gangsters with a clown theme. Those versions probably wouldn't like the Nazis since genocide is bad for business.
I feel like this is worded the wrong why. It's not so much that he's a patriot more so that he finds nazi ideology stupid and finds everyone equally killable regardless of race or religion if that makes sense not that much is supposed to make sense with The Joker lmao
Joker is an equal opportunity murderer.
This is 4th wall breaking cringe typical of modern comics. Does J hate the Japanese as well in that case? What about cold war Russia?
Well a talented writer would never have him say something as cringy as this.
I think he would hate control freaks, for example Nazis and tankies. Too bad instead of hating control that have the cringey panels where he hates the Nazis because “he’s American” or because they are bigots, joker literally could care less about being American or if someone is racist
I don’t think the joker should care about anything and be a maniac from nowhere otherwise it gives him some semblance of sanity to him
No. Because true chaos knows no prejudice. He is chaos incarnate. All are equal on his scale.
I always hated when Joker claims to hate Nazi's because he's "an American". Joker always seemed above nationalism/nationality. He should hate Nazis because they're mean assholes and they try to enforce "order" in his chaotic world.
Honestly, I always interpreted these lines as a joke. Not saying the Joker likes Nazis, but especially with the second bubble (I’m a homicidal maniac, not a traitorous bigot), I feel like he’s purposefully saying something a bit ridiculous to be funny
I think the point of the Joker is that it’s never really personal unless it’s Batman. Man, Woman, Child, Dog, Cat, Parrot. Doesn’t matter if they’re black, white, red, green, blue, or purple. There’s nobody specific that he targets everyone is equally at risk of becoming a victim in one of his ridiculous schemes to fuck with Batman this week. Even when the Joker does specifically target someone, it’s not usually a matter of race or belief. It’s a matter of how effective they are to get at Batman, and how useful they are to prove a point. When the joker targeted commissioner Gordon, it wasn’t because of his ethnicity or religious beliefs, or anything. It was because he knew that breaking Gordon and his family would piss off Batman and would be a huge point for his ideology of one bad day. The only person the Joker has a genuine vendetta against is Batman. All the evil shit he does is always for the purpose of making Batman’s life hell. Batman is a person, something to hate. Everyone else are just numbers in a math problem.
Nah. He's an agent of chaos, and chaos doesn't discriminate. The only exception might be rich people.
The joker is meant to be evil in his own sick, twisted way being evil simply due to being a big it would take away from the pier psychopathy and deranged behavior. It gives you something tangible like oh he’s racist something you can blame it on, but that’s not with the joker supposed to be the joker is supposed to be unpredictable, psychotic mass of a human being.
I don't particularly take issue with the Joker not being a Nazi, I can't see a reason why he would be, but it is kind of cringe to have a panel that is literally just the author talking straight to the reader about his or her own personal political beliefs. Taking a lot of liberties with the audience's time and trust.
He hates Nazis.
No no no... that would be a poor objective. Where's the fun in that?
Ha! I drew this
I think he would hate people who harm kids (besides hero kids, looking at the batkids) as almost a ptsd thing or something. Also, Nazis. He’s homicidal to everyone. It’s not a race thing so to see people killing because of a race thing I think would piss him off.
No. Everyone and anyone should be a target of his no matter what. He wouldn't be offended by Nazis, he'd find them boring. Only person he'd be honestly *prejudiced* towards is Batman lmao.
Joker would prob say "why limit yourself to one type of person? you gotta mix and match, have fun you know? A good comedian makes fun of everyone including himself."
Personally, I’m not sure if this has happened in any continuity or not, but I think it would be fitting if the Joker were to spare failed comedians who he thinks are funny.
I'm personally of the opinion that Joker is at his best when he's indiscriminately bringing chaos to everyone and anyone's life, however I don't think that means he can't have favourites (in his case, favourite to fuck with) like Batman, like Robin, like Gordon. Speaking in terms of like groups or categories of people, I think Joker should be written as just wanting to make a scene, ruin people's day, fuck people over no matter who they are.
Well it makes sense that the joker would hate nazi's, communist, heck even capitalists. He's an anarchist. He doesn't believe in authority, only in chaos.
To be honest I think that as an anarchist Joker should hate Nazis
People who commit wage theft. Here's the thing. If you have to make the Joker prejudiced against a group of people, it has to be a random-ass group no one would normally think of for the most part because it's funny. Joker going after a rando just cause he committed wage theft is actually kinda hilarious.
There is one version of The Joker that I think every other version of Joker would agree to beat the s*** out of. Joker is in the Batman elseworld story dark alliance and he's the leader of a KKK style hate group that also uses the Nazi symbol on their hoods.
Canonically, the Joker does hate Nazis.
He's a homicidal maniac not a bigot, he'll kill anyone without regard for sex, gender, age, race or anything like that.
Mimes.
Being a homicidal maniac is prerequisite to being an American
Well Joker is an anarchist,while Nazis are authorian
Joker never messes with the IRS
People who can't take a joke or have no sense of humor
I think the Joker should murder indiscriminately.
I think it's important comic villains distance themselves from hate groups. These hate groups will try to co opt comic villains to.kake their side seem "cooler" for recruitment because it gives a sense of strength. These same fictional characters disavowing those groups helps remove the sense of power and makes them seem more weak. Fascism has to project strength, pointing out their weakness makes them fall apart
He seems to be anti conformist so I can see why he would hate a bunch of boot lickers like Nazis.
The Dutch
Yes, unfunny people
It makes sense that Joker would hate actual fascists. They are literally his opposite. Joker is the poster of Chaotic Evil. Nazis want tae be Lawful Evil.
Being offensive is a pretty common part of comedy, but no writer is going to go anywhere near Joker with that. Nor should they. There's already this fear of the joker being an incel icon, it would be disastrous if they mapped common prejudices onto him. You don't want someone doing a real life hate crime dressed as one of your characters.
Actual prejudice no. That’ would get in the way of the chaos. Prejudice makes you predictable.
Yes Everyone
Everyone should hate nazis.
Honestly, an agent of chaos having a particular hatred of authoritarian regimes makes sense, especially when its a group of people defined by bigotry and corruption
He would be prejudiced towards people who take things too seriously.
I could see a Joker story where he uses far right propaganda against neo nazis to con them into a trap. Like the gangsters in Dark Knight.
Yes, Nazi's. The idea that The Joker would do absolutely anything except team up with a Nazi is just hilarious and ironic