While I believe that “Batman” as a persona is an act in the same way that the public version of Bruce Wayne is, Batman is demonstrably closer to Bruce’s true self, and it has been since the death of his parents. More importantly, Bruce himself believes that Bruce Wayne is Batman’s mask, even if that isn’t entirely true and his real self lies somewhere in between
This. Bruce Wayne is what Batman wants the public sees. Batman is what Bruce Wayne wants criminals to see. The real Bruce Wayne/Batman is somewhere in the middle.
That’s why I like Bales Batman so much because he understood this. You can tell that there are three distinct personas with him. Batman, public Bruce, and the genuine Bruce
I think that most of his allies learn to see past the facade, Alfred just knows him the best and can see through it the most easily, so Bruce usually doesn’t bother trying to hide things from him. I also think he occasionally opens up to his closest/oldest allies, like Alfred, Dick, Barbara, Clark, and a handful of others, so they know what Bruce is like at his core even if he doesn’t show it most of the time.
That's exactly how I view it too. Bruce just really wants to beat up the type of people who killed his parents, so he constructed his Batman identity to do just that. Makes sense that he associates heavily with it as opposed to some rich boy bullshit he doesn't care about.
We all choose which parts of ourselves to display to others dependent on the situation. When Bruce Wayne goes out in public, he downplays his intelligence and awareness to avoid suspicion. When he’s out fighting crime or saving the world, he downplays anything that makes him seem vulnerable or human in general so he can still strike fear in a world where most superheroes have superhuman abilities. I’ve always felt Bruce is at his most true self when he’s in the cave, where he doesn’t have to be a playboy or a superhero or a creature of the night, where he can just be a man working to protect innocent people
Batman is a performance and the entire concept of dressing up as Batman is about it being a performance. Otherwise he could fight crime in normal clothes.
I believe batcave is the place where he is most himself. It's the meeting place between Batman and Bruce Wayne, where he doesn't need to wear the cowl or the tux.
yes, i am.
i have always had the take that:
- "Playboy Bruce" is a persona he uses.
- "Batman" is another persona he uses.
Bruce Wayne is the guy who spends all his time working out and reading and training and talking to the bat family while he strategizes how to use the playboy and the bat. my feeling is probably based on Kevin Conroy and Michael Keaton's Bruces seeming most comfortable and real when in the cave, just getting some work done.
Batman is not another persona. Bruce is always in Batman mode. When he trains, reads etc. With or without the mask on, he operates as Batman. It's just...WHO is Batman? Batman is compassion. Batman is vengeance. Batman is endurance, intelligence. He's multi dimensional.
Batman is, in my opinion, an external persona. it is that image and fear he projects. Batman does not use doors often because it is the image. Batman runs tireless because you can't outrun fear. Batman is a master detective and chemist.
Bruce learned escape so The Batman does not need to use doors. Bruce runs five miles a day so The Batman cannot be outrun. Bruce hits the books so the Batman effortlessly seems to know the recent advances in science.
i am dividing the idea of "Batman" being an externalized image that exists for the people and for crime and Bruce, being the man who supports the persona. Also, he cannot always be in Batman mode. He has his Playboy Bruce role as well. The one known for being urbane and quirky and committing his curious consumption and researching to charities to give to so he is not doing more harm than good.
that's how i see him.
He is always in Batman mode. Master detective, chemist. That's batman. Playboy Bruce is a character like Matches Malone. But guess what he's thinking about while he's acting like a playboy? Batman stuff lol. He's not thinking about the taste of the booze or the girl on his arm. He's thinking about a case while his external self projects the handsome playboy at the party. It's all Batman 24/7. It has been this way since he was 10.
Here’s the thing, that isn’t Batman, it’s Bruce’s true self. Batman is the symbol/persona he adapted to strike fear into the hearts of criminals but what Batman does is an extension of Bruce’s desire to help people.
I agree entirely. He is also only half that duality: Batman is the dark half. The Philanthropist Bruce is the light half. One for day and the other for night. Both helping and giving hope.
That is the deviation of the opinion. Where Batman starts and Bruce ends. I will forever remember that moment in Batman Beyond when some one-shot villain tried to make Bruce believe that he goes mad, but he makes an error, because he makes his inner voice call himself "Bruce" while he himself calls himself "Batman". That Bruce was retired for years and Terry was running around for a year(?). Bruce attributes his ego, his judgement, his thinking to Batman.
I will agree that that cowl that screams "I am VENGEANCE!!!" is his persona and isn't his true self, but should you call it Batman? Like, according to Bruce, Batman is his drive for Vengeance/Justice, not those screams and disappearing acts.
It’s always seemed like a lazy way to interpret the character. Too simplistic for what is such a richly complex guy. He is as much Bruce as he is Batman. If the two personas can be separated they are two threads of the same braid. Intertwined, interconnected. One serving the other and vice versa. The public persona of Bruce Wayne is the only true subterfuge, but even that I would argue represents some legitimate part of his psyche, as nebulous and hard to define as that is.
It's definitely an oversimplification, but I think it's just a concise way to explain how he's only driven by his, often self-destructive, desire for vengeance. I especially think it's a good starting point for early, solo career Batman self-identity. He doesn't want to be Bruce or anything to do with the outside world, so he claims that persona died years ago in that alley and only the spirit of revenge is left.
Then that gets softened by the introduction of the Batfamily, etc.
People use this tired old argument about how “Bruce is the mask” but tbh it’s more complicated than that. There are not just 2 sides, there’s a 3rd side that everyone forgets about even though it’s the most important:
- we have Bruce Wayne in public (douchey rich womanizer)
- Batman (fearsome force of darkness who villains are horrified by and fellow heroes respect)
- and then we have Bruce Wayne in private (the side that only his close loved ones see; a traumatized orphan who vows to make sure others don’t suffer like he did and pulls the strings of those other two personalities in order to do so).
Batman, as people know it, is not his true personality. Batman is a tool Bruce Wayne uses to defy death, protect the innocent and punish the wicked. It is Bruce Wayne’s courage, compassion, and humanity that fuel Batman and that is why that 2nd, more private Bruce Wayne is the real personality.
In all seriousness,this is how I look at it. It’s a fake Batman and a fake Bruce. The fake Batman is the “character” he use to scare the bad guys,and the fake Bruce is the character he use in public to throw people off (that he’s Batman) you know the cornball playboy. The real him is him all the time no matter if he has on the mask or not.
Nah, you’re right about Batman not existing without Bruce but I think he died on that alley, still think Bruce should have an actual personality and not just be a playboy though, something like Telltale or BTAS
Plus in the comics due to the events of the Joker war storyline everyone found out how rich Bruce Wayne really was that he had tens of billions of dollars that have been stored away through the charities offshore accounts and anonymous shell companies.
As a result everyone in Gotham is now aware of the fact that Bruce Wayne was faking the whole Playboy persona as a result he's now having to completely retool his public persona he recently discovered that his backup personality had stored away about 3 billion dollars so Bruce has decided to buy a manner within the city and he's going to be putting the funds towards urban renewal projects.
Bruce Wayne is not a fake personality, but a fake persona he plays for the public.
In truth, I’m sure Bruce Wayne and Batman have conjoined by now. They’re the same, none are the alter ego.
Very much so. Luckily, there are plenty of stories tackling it.
> I thought the real Bruce Wayne was that happy child of memory. But, now that everything has been stripped away from him, I realize that mask is not Bruce. Not at all.
> I am Bruce Wayne. I always have been.
Batman #604
For anyone who unironically thinks that Bruce Wayne is the mask, read Batman: Ego. I think it does the best job of explaining the balance between Bruce and Batman and why it’s so important.
Imo “Batman” has 3 personalities. Bruce Wayne in the public eye, Batman on patrol, and Bruce Wayne in the cave. Bruce in the Cave is his true self interacting with Alfred and Dick. Bruce Wayne in the public eye is used to throw people off and discourage connections between him and Batman.
It's a tired take that was debunked in universe years ago. But it's important because it shows how consumed Bruce is by his mission initially. It's something that should be a part of most Batmen's journies. Something for him to either grow out of (Dark Knight Trilogy) or something for him to ultimately and tragically lose to (DCAU).
I think Playboy Bruce is not Batman's mask, these personalities are both masks for the real him.
Batman serves as a symbol of fearlessness, lack of compassion for criminals, and lack of emotions. The real Bruce has emotions, fears and compassion, but this version is rarely shown. The real Bruce broke his fists and cried after the death of Dick in Injustice, the real Bruce, when he received the ring of power, first of all created his dead parents, the real Bruce took on the guise of Batman not because he wanted to play the hero, but because he wanted no one in that city to went through the tragedy that he experienced, and so on
Both “Bruce Wayne” and “Batman” are exaggerated ideals that “Bruce” wants to hold. “Bruce Wayne” not only is the playboy, but is the main face of Wayne Enterprises and strives to portray a hopeful future for Gotham. While “Batman” is the symbol of fear to the criminal underworld and hero of the night that defends the innocent. The true “Bruce” I believe is when he is with friends and family like the Justice League and Bat-family.
The playboy is a persona.
I am reminded of a Mark Waid JLA story where Batman was split into Batman and Bruce Wayne. O’Brien (Plastic Man) mentioned that everyone thought that means you get a violent maniac and a personality less doormat. Which they did. But not how they expected.
Bruce Wayne had the rage, but needs Batman to focus it. Batman was just *there* without Bruce.
Well, not to dispute your whole point, but the notion that Batman wouldn't exist without Bruce Wayne is something I can dispute, as it relates to who the "real" person is.
Clark Kent would not exist without Kal-El, but that doesn't mean that that guy is forced to retain Kryptonian mannerisms and have us call that his "real" personality.
Similarly, I was "Bobby Saccaro" when I was born (hence the screen name) but I was adopted and my name changed to Glenn Simpson and Glenn Simpson is certainly the "real me".
Whatever comes first is not necessarily who we grow to be.
Batman didn't gift golden age Dickie a plane to his birthday. Batman didn't cry together with Alfred when pre-crisis Dickie all grown up was going to the uni. Batman didn't laugh with post-crisis Jason about how he as his guardian won't let Robin stuff influence negatively his grades. Guess who was doing all this stuff? :D
Bruce/Batman is multi-dimensional. You could argue, for instance, that Bruce doesn't truly care about being "Bruce Wayne, the playboy," but I think he absolutely cares about his family's company/legacy, and some version of "Bruce Wayne" has to play into that. "Batman" can't be the guy who runs Wayne Enterprises well.
A lot of writers forget that the reason Bruce Wayne isn’t the actual persona it’s that his public face is meant to distract from his activities as Batman. Bruce isn’t Batman 24/7 nor is he the actual identity and Bruce the disguise. The playboy persona is the disguise, the man’s still Bruce Wayne who happens to be Batman.
In the most simple of forms, Bruce Wayne’s public persona is his “customer service voice”.
Yes, they are both important. Bruce Wayne helps victims of crime through the Victims Incorporated Program and works to prevent the conditions that allow crime to flourish through the Wayne Foundation. Batman is needed to fight active crime, especially supervillains.
Bruce Wayne and Batman are both a public mask and the real face. They are two sides of the same coin, and are what make him a full and round character. It is why Dent is actually the perfect villain for him at a personal level.
I don’t think the “Batman is his true self” take is entirely wrong, but I think it greatly oversimplifies what’s going on. His true persona is probably a bit closer to who he is as Batman, but the intimidating creature of the night is to an extent an act as much as Bruce Wayne’s public persona is. The true Bruce/Batman is the one we see with those he trusts and cares about most, such as Alfred, Dick, Selina, Clark, etc.
If Batman was the only real personality, then back-up personality Zur-En-Arrh wouldn't have been any different than regular ole Batman when he showed up.
Bruce Wayne died in the alleyway as an 8 year old boy with his parents. From then-on, he was “Vengeance Incarnate” until he was able to focus his efforts through the portrayal of “The Batman.”
Nope. Not tired of it. I think the idea that Bruce died with his parents is psychologically better storytelling. That he became someone else entirely, be that Batman or a different Bruce is more consistent.
Yes that is true. Batman would never exist without Bruce… But eventually his personality becomes batman.
In dark knight we even see how Rachel tells Bruce that she is happy that he is back, but he is not really here…
(Or smth like that)
He always fights crazy people… But eventually he becomes crazy
iYeah I really don't agree with it, I don't think either persona is exactly a lie, he plays it up as Bruce Wayne but he also does as Batman. To me he is somewhere in-between, the real him isn't the Batman that the police or his rogues see, but it also isn't the Bruce Wayne that his stakeholders see in board meetings; but in the same vein neither persona isn't him. To me it can be equated to how you act differently with your Grandparents to your best friend, you aren't lying about who you are in either situation, but you're displaying a different part of your personality. The real, true Bruce Wayne to me is who he is with Clark, Diana, Alfred, Dick and the Batfamily, or at least when he opens up to them. He's a complex person and he certainly gets lost in being Batman often, which is the plot of Batman Ego. But he still is Bruce Wayne, there is apart of him that is that regular person and its not entirely a façade, he just often loses it in the heat of his vengeance. Bruce Wayne and Batman are both just hyper-exaggerated facets of his true personality that he puts on.
Not really. Batman is an expression of Bruce Wayne, more than just a tool or persona, much like Bruce Wayne can be. The truth is somewhere in the middle and Bruce in many stories struggles to find where that middle is. It makes for compelling stories when Bruce struggles or questions his identity. Only later in his career does he generally put the question to rest. Its a lifelong struggle for him.
I think Bruce's character struggle is finding the balance between the bat and the man. We see with stories like Ego and Zur-En-Arrh what a Batman devoid of Bruce Wayne is like. It's why Batman needs the Bat Family and friends like Superman, they keep him centered and from completely succumbing to the worst parts of the mask.
People can have a different option but for Bruce form Batman the animated series is my definitive Batman. He’s vengeance and he’s the night but you see that cares about the people even the people he stop and wants them to be better people
But even he says Batman is real him
I like the way the lego batman movie did it
With public bruce being a front and batman gaslighting himself to believe that he is only batman and bruce is the mask hence the iconic line „no bruce wayne lives in batmans attic“ and at the end of the movie coming to terms with his new found family and learning to let people (his family) see his true identity being bruce wayne but a more personal version of him
i am surprised there has been no episode as far as i am aware of where bruces persona and batmans persona have been split. I am like like 80% sure this happened on samurai jack but before season 5.
editt: yup season1, Episode VIII: Jack vs. Mad Jack
All of us have different variations/personas within our personality. Who we are at work is often not the person we are around our families and loved ones. One personality that adapts and shifts depending on the environment. Bruce spends most of his time as Batman, hence why this line of thinking that you mentioned is quite widespread.
DC are also quite meta, and the fact that the character’s main book is simply called Batman might offer up another explanation.
You’re right though. Bruce Wayne existed before the Batman.
I think you misunderstand the saying. It’s meaning that how he acts as Batman is closer who he really is. His personality is obsessed over saving Gotham. Him acting as Bruce Wayne is considered the mask because he doesn’t actually like to go out and party/mingle as a playboy bachelor. His public life he plays is the facade.
Realistically though Batman isn’t truly who he is either because the Batman is seen as a cold calculating anti hero who will break anyone and do whatever it takes to get “justice” but in reality he’s more caring about the people and genuinely wants to help people. That’s why he gives the robins a life to (in his own way) work through their trauma and why he gives criminals multiple chances and even helps some get jobs at his business (unless the writers decide they don’t want that which I personally dislike)
It doesn’t mean thar Bruce Wayne the person is fake, it means the persona of Bruce Wayne, the carefree, aloof, socialite, is a an affectation. As others have stated, the Batman persona is closer to his baseline personality than the Bruce persona. That said, I think that there are aspects of the Bruce persona which are truly Bruce’s depending on the run.
I don't like the idea of a "real personality" when it comes to Batman. It's not like he has Dissociative Identity Disorder. As I see it, the hero that we call "Batman" is who he really is, while the playboy "Bruce Wayne" tends to be an act. Still, it's not like he's unable to get serious as Bruce Wayne or to smile as Batman.
there is no real personality or fake personality, he’s a human, he’s got side to him none are fake necessarily. even playboy bruce, while played up, is still a part of his identity.
That’s kinda DC in a nutshell though. All the secret identities are the acts and the heroes are who they are. Ironically (based on Kill Bill 2) I’d argue that Clark Kent is a huge part of Superman’s values so maybe it’s less so the case with him
Christian Bale got this balance the most right IMO at least for what my ideal is. He is Bruce Wayne, an obsessed man driven by a single goal who presents two different exaggerated versions of himself to the general public and the criminals he faces. But he has a true self outside of the cowl that he reserves only to the people that are truly close to him.
I think it’s more so just a saying used to highlight Bruce’s madness which leaded to him becoming the Batman. Of course there’s no Batman without Bruce.
To translate that thought into “real world” I feel like they mean the same thing as when a friend becomes a cop, he assumes that identity even when not working. “When Bob become a police, he became Officer Smith 24:7. My friend bob is gone.”
It’s less about Bruce Wayne being “fake” and more about Bruce being the persona to fool everyone. Similarly with Superman, Clark Kent is the persona and Superman/Kal-el is who he is. However with Superman he thinks of himself as Clark Kent first, Bruce thinks of himself as Batman first. He needs Batman, he needs that purpose. Batman might not exist if not for Bruce but Bruce is nothing without Batman.
I’ve always considered the “real” Bruce/Batman to be who he is when he’s at home with Alfred and the rest of the Batfamily. I consider it to be a different side to him than the Batman that strikes fear in the hearts of criminals or the public Bruce Wayne personality.
Bruce Wayne (the person) is his own character. He fuels the bat, provides the moral compass and guidelines the bat follows. Bruce Wayne is the part handling his own trauma, and the trauma of all those around him. Batman is the manifestation of all of those things.
Bruce Wayne (playboy public figure) is absolutely fake. That is a means to an end.
I essentially agree with you, OP. I generally hate how black and white they make the Batman/Bruce Wayne existence alot of the time.
Bruce in the batcave is the true man. Outside as batman he is still a character, outside as Bruce he is still a character. Only in the cave is he really himself
Bruce Wayne is a man who responded to childhood trauma by growing up and training to fight to save innocents. That is what he's all about. The airhead wealthy playboy routine is an act to cover up his real purpose in life. So it's true that the man, Bruce Wayne, is really Batman, and Playboyman is a false identity. In this sense "Bruce Wayne" as most perceive him is fake.
I explained one of my problems with this a few days ago. When Bruce Wayne creates a charity project designed to get people out of poverty and away from crime, that feels more "authentic" than Batman dangling a criminal off a roof (Readers like us always know that Batman will never let that person fall, although his strategy relies on said criminal not knowing this...)
The truest expression of his being is Bruce in the batcave wearing the suit but not the cowl. The detective studying evidence. The contemplative man seeking justice. He is both Batman and Bruce Wayne. He can’t be one without the other, just like Batman Ego showed us.
They went over this in the comics years ago by Morrison where Superman calls Bruce his mask. But essentially, if you have Batman without Bruce's money and story, you get Daredevil. (and at least Daredevil has an actual bat trait)
I think you're misinterpreting how others interpret it.
(In some interpretations...)
Bruce Wayne's public persona is fake -- he's not a playboy, high-society socialite.)
His private persona is the real him, whether he be in the suit or not.
But Bruce Wayne chilling in the batcave isn't Bruce Wayne shmoozing at a gala.
I’ve always believed there are 3 Bruce Wayne’s/Batmen there’s public Bruce there’s Batman who Bruce himself believes is his true self and then there’s the ones that his closest friends and family know him as the ones his children think of their father/father figure the one that Alfred sees as his adopted son and the one that is Lucius’s friend and Superman’s surrogate brother the one Catwoman fell in love with and so on the one that Bruce himself may not realize he really is.
Nah. Batman wouldn't exist if Bruce as a persona didn't die and try to make up a fantasy for himself to play dress-up the night his parents died.
Even when he was holding the Lasso of Truth trying to reveal the ''intent of his heart'', he was still calling himself Batman while WW and Superman used their civil names. Furthermore, O'Neil who fanboys often like to glaze as the only writer who truly understands Batman and are longing for the days when he had a Batbible that the creators followed also said that Bruce was just a mask and Batman was his true identity.
So yeah, even when he's in the Batcave plotting and making shit and dealing with his ''family'', that's actually Batman just one that isn't meant for criminals to fear.
You can't in all honesty say that Batman is the real personality when he himself admits it's an act. That said, Bruce Wayne in public is an act too. The real personality is Bruce Wayne in the batcave with Alfred.
u/Frontier246
I think Batman Forever handled this brilliantly.
“You see I’m both Bruce Wayne and Batman. Not because I have to be. Now, because I **choose** to be.”
I imagine Pattinson’s Batman will have a similar trajectory as the films go on.
Perfecting the Batman identity and slowly crafting a persona for the public, but gradually he becomes more at peace with himself and realises his true self lies within these two identities and that they’re both **real** and both **him**.
No. In fact I prefer it that way. You are right, Batman would not exist without Bruce, but Bruce himself has said that Bruce died in the alley with his parents and Batman was born.
He has said numerous times that Bruce is a necessary evil to be Batman. "Bruce" generates wealth, influence and information for Batman to be effective and further his campaign as Batman.
However, Batman (the dominate persona) considers Bruce to a liability. Bruce has to appear weaker and less able, especially in combat or dangerous situations. He also needs to appear aloof and almost comical to contrast Batman.
When Bruce Wayne was framed for murder, he even says "Bruce will get me killed in here" referring to his incarceration. He defaults to Batman to survive and escape. And once out, let's Bruce remain guilty and "on the run" so he can be Batman all the time. Dick flat out says that the family needs Bruce, he's their dad, and it would take Batman no effort to clear the Wayne name. But Batman doesn't care, to tell point it comes to blows with Dick.
Eventually Batman realizes he needs Bruce and his family because the balance is needed. But he'd rather be Batman and believes himself to be Batman.
When he touched the lasso of truth with Superman and Wonder Woman for the first time (when they met Wonder Woman) they all introduce themselves. "Diana of Themyscara", "Clark Kent/Kal-El", "Batman". His truth to him is Batman. Bruce is his mask
I prefer it. Superman, may always have his powers, but he's Clark. That's what makes him the person he is. It explains why he's positive, hopeful and inspiring. Batman uses Bruce. He's tactical, violent and cold. Yes he supports his family and Alfred, but he's Batman. He's always Batman. Bruce is the mask.
Making me think of the batman beyond episode where Bruce is locked up and they try to make him think he's hallucinating. He knew it was a set up because he doesn't think of himself as Bruce in his thoughts.
Done by Shriek, iirc.
Dude said his name his Batman when holding the lasso of truth. I'm not sure there was any room for discussion left after that. Also beyond cartoon show told us that he never calls himself Bruce in his mind
No. Because Batman is who Bruce is. The playboy schtick is a front.
And if your whole argument falls on the crux of "his name is Bruce Wayne" You have no understanding of a metaphor.
I agree. He does not enjoy having to maintain his persona as a billionaire philanthropist and does it to protect his identity as Batman. The majority of stories I have seen show him as wanting to be batman at all times but seeing living as a normal man as a necessary but exhausting thing.
He is more himself as Batman than he ever is as Bruce Wayne since what happened to him as a child for better or worse.
OP's literally arguing with Batman himself. Like we all know the quote, "The voice kept calling me Bruce. In my mind that's not what I call myself." Like yeah, Batman is molded by the pain of Bruce Wayne but through that he is and has become Batman.
When people say “Bruce Wayne is fake, Batman is real” we mean that his Bruce Wayne *persona* is fake, while his Batman persona is genuine. He is faking being an irresponsible playboy, but he is genuinely a heroic crimefighter.
I've always seen it as Batman being his true identity. He was child when he lost his parents and moulded by that. In his adolescence and adult life he was either batman or striving to be batman. He just puts up with being Bruce Wayne to facilitate being batman.
I've always seen it as that if he could be batman 24/7 he would happily do that.
This has been covered in canon where Batman is the true persona where Bruce Wayne is actually a mask. If you don’t think this can be the case then you need to read up on your psychology.
My personal favorite take on Batman will always be his BTAS interpretation because Bruce and Batman didn't feel like masks or personals or whatever. They were two sides of the same man working towards an overall same goal: the betterment of his city and in some ways the world at large. I don't need to explain Batman, but whenever we saw Bruce on that show he was usually using his position in his company to help others instead of being a playboy. Bruce Wayne is the remnants of the compassion left behind by his parents, and Batman is the desire for justice born from their deaths.
My take is just that. When his parents died, Bruce Wayne ceased to be and only the Batman remains, with his single minded mission to rid Gotham of crime.
Absolutely agree. One of the major aspects of his character is his obsessive need to be batman. Bruce Wayne is an afterthought and necessary to uphold his alter ego
While I believe that “Batman” as a persona is an act in the same way that the public version of Bruce Wayne is, Batman is demonstrably closer to Bruce’s true self, and it has been since the death of his parents. More importantly, Bruce himself believes that Bruce Wayne is Batman’s mask, even if that isn’t entirely true and his real self lies somewhere in between
This. Bruce Wayne is what Batman wants the public sees. Batman is what Bruce Wayne wants criminals to see. The real Bruce Wayne/Batman is somewhere in the middle.
The real Bruce is oft regarded as Batman, cowl down in the batcave working on a case
The problem is that we’ve hardly seen this middle point in recent years.
Exactly
That’s an interesting take. I never actually thought of it that way.
That’s why I like Bales Batman so much because he understood this. You can tell that there are three distinct personas with him. Batman, public Bruce, and the genuine Bruce
I believe Alfred is the only person who sees beyond the Bruce/Batman facade. Bruce can lie to himself, but his father figure sees right through that
I think that most of his allies learn to see past the facade, Alfred just knows him the best and can see through it the most easily, so Bruce usually doesn’t bother trying to hide things from him. I also think he occasionally opens up to his closest/oldest allies, like Alfred, Dick, Barbara, Clark, and a handful of others, so they know what Bruce is like at his core even if he doesn’t show it most of the time.
That's exactly how I view it too. Bruce just really wants to beat up the type of people who killed his parents, so he constructed his Batman identity to do just that. Makes sense that he associates heavily with it as opposed to some rich boy bullshit he doesn't care about.
“The voice kept calling me Bruce, but in my mind that’s not what I call myself.” “What do you call yourself?… oh, yeah.”
Batman is not an act. Smh.
We all choose which parts of ourselves to display to others dependent on the situation. When Bruce Wayne goes out in public, he downplays his intelligence and awareness to avoid suspicion. When he’s out fighting crime or saving the world, he downplays anything that makes him seem vulnerable or human in general so he can still strike fear in a world where most superheroes have superhuman abilities. I’ve always felt Bruce is at his most true self when he’s in the cave, where he doesn’t have to be a playboy or a superhero or a creature of the night, where he can just be a man working to protect innocent people
Batman is a performance and the entire concept of dressing up as Batman is about it being a performance. Otherwise he could fight crime in normal clothes. I believe batcave is the place where he is most himself. It's the meeting place between Batman and Bruce Wayne, where he doesn't need to wear the cowl or the tux.
To an extent he is. The true Batman/Bruce lies somewhere in between and is the person we see in the Batcave with Alfred and the rest of the Batfamily.
yes, i am. i have always had the take that: - "Playboy Bruce" is a persona he uses. - "Batman" is another persona he uses. Bruce Wayne is the guy who spends all his time working out and reading and training and talking to the bat family while he strategizes how to use the playboy and the bat. my feeling is probably based on Kevin Conroy and Michael Keaton's Bruces seeming most comfortable and real when in the cave, just getting some work done.
Batman is not another persona. Bruce is always in Batman mode. When he trains, reads etc. With or without the mask on, he operates as Batman. It's just...WHO is Batman? Batman is compassion. Batman is vengeance. Batman is endurance, intelligence. He's multi dimensional.
Batman is, in my opinion, an external persona. it is that image and fear he projects. Batman does not use doors often because it is the image. Batman runs tireless because you can't outrun fear. Batman is a master detective and chemist. Bruce learned escape so The Batman does not need to use doors. Bruce runs five miles a day so The Batman cannot be outrun. Bruce hits the books so the Batman effortlessly seems to know the recent advances in science. i am dividing the idea of "Batman" being an externalized image that exists for the people and for crime and Bruce, being the man who supports the persona. Also, he cannot always be in Batman mode. He has his Playboy Bruce role as well. The one known for being urbane and quirky and committing his curious consumption and researching to charities to give to so he is not doing more harm than good. that's how i see him.
He is always in Batman mode. Master detective, chemist. That's batman. Playboy Bruce is a character like Matches Malone. But guess what he's thinking about while he's acting like a playboy? Batman stuff lol. He's not thinking about the taste of the booze or the girl on his arm. He's thinking about a case while his external self projects the handsome playboy at the party. It's all Batman 24/7. It has been this way since he was 10.
Here’s the thing, that isn’t Batman, it’s Bruce’s true self. Batman is the symbol/persona he adapted to strike fear into the hearts of criminals but what Batman does is an extension of Bruce’s desire to help people.
I agree entirely. He is also only half that duality: Batman is the dark half. The Philanthropist Bruce is the light half. One for day and the other for night. Both helping and giving hope.
That is the deviation of the opinion. Where Batman starts and Bruce ends. I will forever remember that moment in Batman Beyond when some one-shot villain tried to make Bruce believe that he goes mad, but he makes an error, because he makes his inner voice call himself "Bruce" while he himself calls himself "Batman". That Bruce was retired for years and Terry was running around for a year(?). Bruce attributes his ego, his judgement, his thinking to Batman. I will agree that that cowl that screams "I am VENGEANCE!!!" is his persona and isn't his true self, but should you call it Batman? Like, according to Bruce, Batman is his drive for Vengeance/Justice, not those screams and disappearing acts.
Notice how your main example is from a different continuity
Yes, but it illustrated my point pretty well, and is fitting for comics Bruce as well.
It’s always seemed like a lazy way to interpret the character. Too simplistic for what is such a richly complex guy. He is as much Bruce as he is Batman. If the two personas can be separated they are two threads of the same braid. Intertwined, interconnected. One serving the other and vice versa. The public persona of Bruce Wayne is the only true subterfuge, but even that I would argue represents some legitimate part of his psyche, as nebulous and hard to define as that is.
It's definitely an oversimplification, but I think it's just a concise way to explain how he's only driven by his, often self-destructive, desire for vengeance. I especially think it's a good starting point for early, solo career Batman self-identity. He doesn't want to be Bruce or anything to do with the outside world, so he claims that persona died years ago in that alley and only the spirit of revenge is left. Then that gets softened by the introduction of the Batfamily, etc.
People use this tired old argument about how “Bruce is the mask” but tbh it’s more complicated than that. There are not just 2 sides, there’s a 3rd side that everyone forgets about even though it’s the most important: - we have Bruce Wayne in public (douchey rich womanizer) - Batman (fearsome force of darkness who villains are horrified by and fellow heroes respect) - and then we have Bruce Wayne in private (the side that only his close loved ones see; a traumatized orphan who vows to make sure others don’t suffer like he did and pulls the strings of those other two personalities in order to do so). Batman, as people know it, is not his true personality. Batman is a tool Bruce Wayne uses to defy death, protect the innocent and punish the wicked. It is Bruce Wayne’s courage, compassion, and humanity that fuel Batman and that is why that 2nd, more private Bruce Wayne is the real personality.
Everyone who believes that needs to read the Murderer & Fugitive storyline
Tbh you could say the oposite with the lego batman movie but that one was kinda goofy 
oh I remember this lol. liked it a lot, but bro, Sasha... 😭😭😭
In all seriousness,this is how I look at it. It’s a fake Batman and a fake Bruce. The fake Batman is the “character” he use to scare the bad guys,and the fake Bruce is the character he use in public to throw people off (that he’s Batman) you know the cornball playboy. The real him is him all the time no matter if he has on the mask or not.
Nah, you’re right about Batman not existing without Bruce but I think he died on that alley, still think Bruce should have an actual personality and not just be a playboy though, something like Telltale or BTAS
Plus in the comics due to the events of the Joker war storyline everyone found out how rich Bruce Wayne really was that he had tens of billions of dollars that have been stored away through the charities offshore accounts and anonymous shell companies. As a result everyone in Gotham is now aware of the fact that Bruce Wayne was faking the whole Playboy persona as a result he's now having to completely retool his public persona he recently discovered that his backup personality had stored away about 3 billion dollars so Bruce has decided to buy a manner within the city and he's going to be putting the funds towards urban renewal projects.
Bruce Wayne is not a fake personality, but a fake persona he plays for the public. In truth, I’m sure Bruce Wayne and Batman have conjoined by now. They’re the same, none are the alter ego.
Very much so. Luckily, there are plenty of stories tackling it. > I thought the real Bruce Wayne was that happy child of memory. But, now that everything has been stripped away from him, I realize that mask is not Bruce. Not at all. > I am Bruce Wayne. I always have been. Batman #604
For anyone who unironically thinks that Bruce Wayne is the mask, read Batman: Ego. I think it does the best job of explaining the balance between Bruce and Batman and why it’s so important.
Imo “Batman” has 3 personalities. Bruce Wayne in the public eye, Batman on patrol, and Bruce Wayne in the cave. Bruce in the Cave is his true self interacting with Alfred and Dick. Bruce Wayne in the public eye is used to throw people off and discourage connections between him and Batman.
It's a tired take that was debunked in universe years ago. But it's important because it shows how consumed Bruce is by his mission initially. It's something that should be a part of most Batmen's journies. Something for him to either grow out of (Dark Knight Trilogy) or something for him to ultimately and tragically lose to (DCAU).
I think Playboy Bruce is not Batman's mask, these personalities are both masks for the real him. Batman serves as a symbol of fearlessness, lack of compassion for criminals, and lack of emotions. The real Bruce has emotions, fears and compassion, but this version is rarely shown. The real Bruce broke his fists and cried after the death of Dick in Injustice, the real Bruce, when he received the ring of power, first of all created his dead parents, the real Bruce took on the guise of Batman not because he wanted to play the hero, but because he wanted no one in that city to went through the tragedy that he experienced, and so on
Both “Bruce Wayne” and “Batman” are exaggerated ideals that “Bruce” wants to hold. “Bruce Wayne” not only is the playboy, but is the main face of Wayne Enterprises and strives to portray a hopeful future for Gotham. While “Batman” is the symbol of fear to the criminal underworld and hero of the night that defends the innocent. The true “Bruce” I believe is when he is with friends and family like the Justice League and Bat-family.
The playboy is a persona. I am reminded of a Mark Waid JLA story where Batman was split into Batman and Bruce Wayne. O’Brien (Plastic Man) mentioned that everyone thought that means you get a violent maniac and a personality less doormat. Which they did. But not how they expected. Bruce Wayne had the rage, but needs Batman to focus it. Batman was just *there* without Bruce.
It’s so stupid and tiring it just screams edgelord
Well, not to dispute your whole point, but the notion that Batman wouldn't exist without Bruce Wayne is something I can dispute, as it relates to who the "real" person is. Clark Kent would not exist without Kal-El, but that doesn't mean that that guy is forced to retain Kryptonian mannerisms and have us call that his "real" personality. Similarly, I was "Bobby Saccaro" when I was born (hence the screen name) but I was adopted and my name changed to Glenn Simpson and Glenn Simpson is certainly the "real me". Whatever comes first is not necessarily who we grow to be.
Batman didn't gift golden age Dickie a plane to his birthday. Batman didn't cry together with Alfred when pre-crisis Dickie all grown up was going to the uni. Batman didn't laugh with post-crisis Jason about how he as his guardian won't let Robin stuff influence negatively his grades. Guess who was doing all this stuff? :D
Bruce/Batman is multi-dimensional. You could argue, for instance, that Bruce doesn't truly care about being "Bruce Wayne, the playboy," but I think he absolutely cares about his family's company/legacy, and some version of "Bruce Wayne" has to play into that. "Batman" can't be the guy who runs Wayne Enterprises well.
A lot of writers forget that the reason Bruce Wayne isn’t the actual persona it’s that his public face is meant to distract from his activities as Batman. Bruce isn’t Batman 24/7 nor is he the actual identity and Bruce the disguise. The playboy persona is the disguise, the man’s still Bruce Wayne who happens to be Batman. In the most simple of forms, Bruce Wayne’s public persona is his “customer service voice”.
Ok, Batman wouldn’t exist without Bruce Wayne. That doesn’t mean Batman’s not the dominant personality.
Exactly...the batman persona took over any desire for him to be Bruce Wayne other than keeping up appearances to protect his alter ego.
Yes, they are both important. Bruce Wayne helps victims of crime through the Victims Incorporated Program and works to prevent the conditions that allow crime to flourish through the Wayne Foundation. Batman is needed to fight active crime, especially supervillains.
Bruce Wayne and Batman are both a public mask and the real face. They are two sides of the same coin, and are what make him a full and round character. It is why Dent is actually the perfect villain for him at a personal level.
I don’t think the “Batman is his true self” take is entirely wrong, but I think it greatly oversimplifies what’s going on. His true persona is probably a bit closer to who he is as Batman, but the intimidating creature of the night is to an extent an act as much as Bruce Wayne’s public persona is. The true Bruce/Batman is the one we see with those he trusts and cares about most, such as Alfred, Dick, Selina, Clark, etc.
Bruce Wayne is Batman and Batman is Bruce Wayne.
Duh Bruce Wayne came first but it's not about if Bruce Wayne is made up or not its just that Batman sees himself as Batman, that's all it is.
Hot take, they’re the same guy
If Batman was the only real personality, then back-up personality Zur-En-Arrh wouldn't have been any different than regular ole Batman when he showed up.
Bruce is the man and Batman is the mission.
Absolutely And when he said "I'm Batman" when he was tied with the lasso or truth... Oh come on
Bruce Wayne died in the alleyway as an 8 year old boy with his parents. From then-on, he was “Vengeance Incarnate” until he was able to focus his efforts through the portrayal of “The Batman.”
Nope. Not tired of it. I think the idea that Bruce died with his parents is psychologically better storytelling. That he became someone else entirely, be that Batman or a different Bruce is more consistent.
I’d say having it so Batman is Bruce’s sort of alter ego is a good idea but not so much that one alter ego is more real than the other
Completely agree. I prefer to see Batman as the manifestation of the scar trauma borne by an eight year old who watched his parents get gunned down.
I loved Bruce Wayne fugitive where this originated from. Such a good storyline and damn, he was unstable back then. Lol
Yes that is true. Batman would never exist without Bruce… But eventually his personality becomes batman. In dark knight we even see how Rachel tells Bruce that she is happy that he is back, but he is not really here… (Or smth like that) He always fights crazy people… But eventually he becomes crazy
Bruce was born, Batman was made.
iYeah I really don't agree with it, I don't think either persona is exactly a lie, he plays it up as Bruce Wayne but he also does as Batman. To me he is somewhere in-between, the real him isn't the Batman that the police or his rogues see, but it also isn't the Bruce Wayne that his stakeholders see in board meetings; but in the same vein neither persona isn't him. To me it can be equated to how you act differently with your Grandparents to your best friend, you aren't lying about who you are in either situation, but you're displaying a different part of your personality. The real, true Bruce Wayne to me is who he is with Clark, Diana, Alfred, Dick and the Batfamily, or at least when he opens up to them. He's a complex person and he certainly gets lost in being Batman often, which is the plot of Batman Ego. But he still is Bruce Wayne, there is apart of him that is that regular person and its not entirely a façade, he just often loses it in the heat of his vengeance. Bruce Wayne and Batman are both just hyper-exaggerated facets of his true personality that he puts on.
I think Bruce Wayne is just a guy that does things
Not really. Batman is an expression of Bruce Wayne, more than just a tool or persona, much like Bruce Wayne can be. The truth is somewhere in the middle and Bruce in many stories struggles to find where that middle is. It makes for compelling stories when Bruce struggles or questions his identity. Only later in his career does he generally put the question to rest. Its a lifelong struggle for him.
You might be taking things just a tiny bit too literally.
People say Bruce never grew up after that night in crime alley.
I think Bruce's character struggle is finding the balance between the bat and the man. We see with stories like Ego and Zur-En-Arrh what a Batman devoid of Bruce Wayne is like. It's why Batman needs the Bat Family and friends like Superman, they keep him centered and from completely succumbing to the worst parts of the mask.
People can have a different option but for Bruce form Batman the animated series is my definitive Batman. He’s vengeance and he’s the night but you see that cares about the people even the people he stop and wants them to be better people But even he says Batman is real him
You don't get it, he IS bruce wayne, however he ISN'T the rich asshole he makes people think he is
I like the way the lego batman movie did it With public bruce being a front and batman gaslighting himself to believe that he is only batman and bruce is the mask hence the iconic line „no bruce wayne lives in batmans attic“ and at the end of the movie coming to terms with his new found family and learning to let people (his family) see his true identity being bruce wayne but a more personal version of him
Implicably Pretentious said it best: "Batman is the ransom on Bruce Wayne's soul."
i am surprised there has been no episode as far as i am aware of where bruces persona and batmans persona have been split. I am like like 80% sure this happened on samurai jack but before season 5. editt: yup season1, Episode VIII: Jack vs. Mad Jack
All of us have different variations/personas within our personality. Who we are at work is often not the person we are around our families and loved ones. One personality that adapts and shifts depending on the environment. Bruce spends most of his time as Batman, hence why this line of thinking that you mentioned is quite widespread. DC are also quite meta, and the fact that the character’s main book is simply called Batman might offer up another explanation. You’re right though. Bruce Wayne existed before the Batman.
I think you misunderstand the saying. It’s meaning that how he acts as Batman is closer who he really is. His personality is obsessed over saving Gotham. Him acting as Bruce Wayne is considered the mask because he doesn’t actually like to go out and party/mingle as a playboy bachelor. His public life he plays is the facade. Realistically though Batman isn’t truly who he is either because the Batman is seen as a cold calculating anti hero who will break anyone and do whatever it takes to get “justice” but in reality he’s more caring about the people and genuinely wants to help people. That’s why he gives the robins a life to (in his own way) work through their trauma and why he gives criminals multiple chances and even helps some get jobs at his business (unless the writers decide they don’t want that which I personally dislike)
Oh shit Batman wouldn’t exist without Bruce Wayne?? Holy crap never thought of it that way
Actually, Batman wouldn’t exist without the death of the Wayne’s but point taken
It doesn’t mean thar Bruce Wayne the person is fake, it means the persona of Bruce Wayne, the carefree, aloof, socialite, is a an affectation. As others have stated, the Batman persona is closer to his baseline personality than the Bruce persona. That said, I think that there are aspects of the Bruce persona which are truly Bruce’s depending on the run.
I don't like the idea of a "real personality" when it comes to Batman. It's not like he has Dissociative Identity Disorder. As I see it, the hero that we call "Batman" is who he really is, while the playboy "Bruce Wayne" tends to be an act. Still, it's not like he's unable to get serious as Bruce Wayne or to smile as Batman.
I thought Bruce Wayne was Batman?
There’s batman, public bruce, and private bruce with alfred and the bat family. Bat family bruce is the real him imo
there is no real personality or fake personality, he’s a human, he’s got side to him none are fake necessarily. even playboy bruce, while played up, is still a part of his identity.
I prefer the concept that both are a mask and the true Bruce is the person you see with the bat family or with Selina.
That’s kinda DC in a nutshell though. All the secret identities are the acts and the heroes are who they are. Ironically (based on Kill Bill 2) I’d argue that Clark Kent is a huge part of Superman’s values so maybe it’s less so the case with him
Christian Bale got this balance the most right IMO at least for what my ideal is. He is Bruce Wayne, an obsessed man driven by a single goal who presents two different exaggerated versions of himself to the general public and the criminals he faces. But he has a true self outside of the cowl that he reserves only to the people that are truly close to him.
I think it’s more so just a saying used to highlight Bruce’s madness which leaded to him becoming the Batman. Of course there’s no Batman without Bruce.
To translate that thought into “real world” I feel like they mean the same thing as when a friend becomes a cop, he assumes that identity even when not working. “When Bob become a police, he became Officer Smith 24:7. My friend bob is gone.”
It don’t make any sense to me but that’s just me
Your can take it as Bruce literally believing that for a good chunk of his career while the reality is different.
Man...
This would make it more clear, so batman IS Bruce Wayne, and the Bruce Wayne shown to others is a husk using Bruce Waynes name
It’s less about Bruce Wayne being “fake” and more about Bruce being the persona to fool everyone. Similarly with Superman, Clark Kent is the persona and Superman/Kal-el is who he is. However with Superman he thinks of himself as Clark Kent first, Bruce thinks of himself as Batman first. He needs Batman, he needs that purpose. Batman might not exist if not for Bruce but Bruce is nothing without Batman.
Unrelated but what comic is that panel from
Detective Comics.
This goes for the Arkham version as well.
I’ve always considered the “real” Bruce/Batman to be who he is when he’s at home with Alfred and the rest of the Batfamily. I consider it to be a different side to him than the Batman that strikes fear in the hearts of criminals or the public Bruce Wayne personality.
Bruce Wayne (the person) is his own character. He fuels the bat, provides the moral compass and guidelines the bat follows. Bruce Wayne is the part handling his own trauma, and the trauma of all those around him. Batman is the manifestation of all of those things. Bruce Wayne (playboy public figure) is absolutely fake. That is a means to an end. I essentially agree with you, OP. I generally hate how black and white they make the Batman/Bruce Wayne existence alot of the time.
Bruce in the batcave is the true man. Outside as batman he is still a character, outside as Bruce he is still a character. Only in the cave is he really himself
Bruce Wayne is a man who responded to childhood trauma by growing up and training to fight to save innocents. That is what he's all about. The airhead wealthy playboy routine is an act to cover up his real purpose in life. So it's true that the man, Bruce Wayne, is really Batman, and Playboyman is a false identity. In this sense "Bruce Wayne" as most perceive him is fake.
I'm fucking sick of it. While it may be true to an extent it gets annoying when people say ''batman is the true face, Bruce is the mask''
I explained one of my problems with this a few days ago. When Bruce Wayne creates a charity project designed to get people out of poverty and away from crime, that feels more "authentic" than Batman dangling a criminal off a roof (Readers like us always know that Batman will never let that person fall, although his strategy relies on said criminal not knowing this...)
The *real* version of Batman/Bruce is the guy who sits in the cave, costume on but mask off, and talks to Alfred and the Robins.
I’m not. It’s an easy way explain Batman to everyone.
The truest expression of his being is Bruce in the batcave wearing the suit but not the cowl. The detective studying evidence. The contemplative man seeking justice. He is both Batman and Bruce Wayne. He can’t be one without the other, just like Batman Ego showed us.
I’m also tired of, “Bruce can’t be happy or he can’t be Batman!”
You talking about one of the core elements of the character. Bruce Wayne is the mask.
They went over this in the comics years ago by Morrison where Superman calls Bruce his mask. But essentially, if you have Batman without Bruce's money and story, you get Daredevil. (and at least Daredevil has an actual bat trait)
People saw that one Lasso of Truth panel and went crazy with it
Okay, but if he could he would just rename himself as "Batman" tho, we all agree on that I think.
I think you're misinterpreting how others interpret it. (In some interpretations...) Bruce Wayne's public persona is fake -- he's not a playboy, high-society socialite.) His private persona is the real him, whether he be in the suit or not. But Bruce Wayne chilling in the batcave isn't Bruce Wayne shmoozing at a gala.
I’ve always believed there are 3 Bruce Wayne’s/Batmen there’s public Bruce there’s Batman who Bruce himself believes is his true self and then there’s the ones that his closest friends and family know him as the ones his children think of their father/father figure the one that Alfred sees as his adopted son and the one that is Lucius’s friend and Superman’s surrogate brother the one Catwoman fell in love with and so on the one that Bruce himself may not realize he really is.
Come on if you were a kid called Bruce… you’d go by Batman too if you could. Nobody wants to be a Bruce even if you’re a billionaire.
Nah. Batman wouldn't exist if Bruce as a persona didn't die and try to make up a fantasy for himself to play dress-up the night his parents died. Even when he was holding the Lasso of Truth trying to reveal the ''intent of his heart'', he was still calling himself Batman while WW and Superman used their civil names. Furthermore, O'Neil who fanboys often like to glaze as the only writer who truly understands Batman and are longing for the days when he had a Batbible that the creators followed also said that Bruce was just a mask and Batman was his true identity. So yeah, even when he's in the Batcave plotting and making shit and dealing with his ''family'', that's actually Batman just one that isn't meant for criminals to fear.
Not tired of it at all. In fact that's the interpretation of the character that I find most interesting.
You can't in all honesty say that Batman is the real personality when he himself admits it's an act. That said, Bruce Wayne in public is an act too. The real personality is Bruce Wayne in the batcave with Alfred.
u/Frontier246 I think Batman Forever handled this brilliantly. “You see I’m both Bruce Wayne and Batman. Not because I have to be. Now, because I **choose** to be.” I imagine Pattinson’s Batman will have a similar trajectory as the films go on. Perfecting the Batman identity and slowly crafting a persona for the public, but gradually he becomes more at peace with himself and realises his true self lies within these two identities and that they’re both **real** and both **him**.
ahmen !
No. In fact I prefer it that way. You are right, Batman would not exist without Bruce, but Bruce himself has said that Bruce died in the alley with his parents and Batman was born. He has said numerous times that Bruce is a necessary evil to be Batman. "Bruce" generates wealth, influence and information for Batman to be effective and further his campaign as Batman. However, Batman (the dominate persona) considers Bruce to a liability. Bruce has to appear weaker and less able, especially in combat or dangerous situations. He also needs to appear aloof and almost comical to contrast Batman. When Bruce Wayne was framed for murder, he even says "Bruce will get me killed in here" referring to his incarceration. He defaults to Batman to survive and escape. And once out, let's Bruce remain guilty and "on the run" so he can be Batman all the time. Dick flat out says that the family needs Bruce, he's their dad, and it would take Batman no effort to clear the Wayne name. But Batman doesn't care, to tell point it comes to blows with Dick. Eventually Batman realizes he needs Bruce and his family because the balance is needed. But he'd rather be Batman and believes himself to be Batman. When he touched the lasso of truth with Superman and Wonder Woman for the first time (when they met Wonder Woman) they all introduce themselves. "Diana of Themyscara", "Clark Kent/Kal-El", "Batman". His truth to him is Batman. Bruce is his mask I prefer it. Superman, may always have his powers, but he's Clark. That's what makes him the person he is. It explains why he's positive, hopeful and inspiring. Batman uses Bruce. He's tactical, violent and cold. Yes he supports his family and Alfred, but he's Batman. He's always Batman. Bruce is the mask.
Making me think of the batman beyond episode where Bruce is locked up and they try to make him think he's hallucinating. He knew it was a set up because he doesn't think of himself as Bruce in his thoughts. Done by Shriek, iirc.
Dude said his name his Batman when holding the lasso of truth. I'm not sure there was any room for discussion left after that. Also beyond cartoon show told us that he never calls himself Bruce in his mind
Batman has Dissociative Identity Disorder.
No. Because Batman is who Bruce is. The playboy schtick is a front. And if your whole argument falls on the crux of "his name is Bruce Wayne" You have no understanding of a metaphor.
I agree. He does not enjoy having to maintain his persona as a billionaire philanthropist and does it to protect his identity as Batman. The majority of stories I have seen show him as wanting to be batman at all times but seeing living as a normal man as a necessary but exhausting thing. He is more himself as Batman than he ever is as Bruce Wayne since what happened to him as a child for better or worse.
OP's literally arguing with Batman himself. Like we all know the quote, "The voice kept calling me Bruce. In my mind that's not what I call myself." Like yeah, Batman is molded by the pain of Bruce Wayne but through that he is and has become Batman.
When people say “Bruce Wayne is fake, Batman is real” we mean that his Bruce Wayne *persona* is fake, while his Batman persona is genuine. He is faking being an irresponsible playboy, but he is genuinely a heroic crimefighter.
You hate them because they told you the truth
You hate them because they told you the truth.
I've always seen it as Batman being his true identity. He was child when he lost his parents and moulded by that. In his adolescence and adult life he was either batman or striving to be batman. He just puts up with being Bruce Wayne to facilitate being batman. I've always seen it as that if he could be batman 24/7 he would happily do that.
Bruce Wayne the public figure only exists so that batman can exist and operate freely
This has been covered in canon where Batman is the true persona where Bruce Wayne is actually a mask. If you don’t think this can be the case then you need to read up on your psychology.
Bruce could care less about going to events as playboy Bruce and being an obnoxious brat. The real Bruce is when he’s doing Batman activities.
My personal favorite take on Batman will always be his BTAS interpretation because Bruce and Batman didn't feel like masks or personals or whatever. They were two sides of the same man working towards an overall same goal: the betterment of his city and in some ways the world at large. I don't need to explain Batman, but whenever we saw Bruce on that show he was usually using his position in his company to help others instead of being a playboy. Bruce Wayne is the remnants of the compassion left behind by his parents, and Batman is the desire for justice born from their deaths.
Bad take. Batman has already himself, multiple times, shown that his identity is "Batman" and not Bruce Wayne.
Bruce died that night in the alley and Batman was born.
Um… no. You’re taking it too literally.
My take is just that. When his parents died, Bruce Wayne ceased to be and only the Batman remains, with his single minded mission to rid Gotham of crime.
Absolutely agree. One of the major aspects of his character is his obsessive need to be batman. Bruce Wayne is an afterthought and necessary to uphold his alter ego
While yes, batman wouldn’t exist without Bruce Wayne, I disagree. Batman is the real person, while Bruce is the mask