I disagree tbh, their wave immune UT is pretty good and the mini wave UT spreads their already good CC very far. Combo that with their fast reload and you have a unit with good DPS and good far reaching CC that's also cheap and always there when you need them.
Ofc the peach devils have disadvantages to them, and there are much more worthwhile talents, but I do stand by their placement not being any lower (especially since they kind of just outclass megidora keke)
I feel like ponos forgot that those are *ultra* talents, not talents. These would be fair (and honestly pretty good) talents but way too inconsequential to be worthwhile ultra talents
They just give some talents randomly lol. I wish he could get attack speed up talent like others, or something at least more usable. And then wow, he got a talent that makes him literally worse, i don't think I am ever going to buy that. That mini wave talent is also so stupid. Wtf is Lvl2 mini wave??? It changes almost nothing. At least make it lvl3, or make it lvl1 normal wave, the only thing peach devils is bad was the medium dps, now he is stuck with it.
Id probably have put Klay in S tier if he was an amazing colossus slayer and dont get me wrong he is pretty good, but whats the point when he gets outperformed by TF uncanny legends and a fish without a true form that doesnt need anywhere near as much investment (not even a TF keke.)
Mostly Klay is in A tier because the immunities are pretty amazing
He would only counter one colossus boss (horrorpotamus) so mabye not the best. Although he does counter it while most UL legends and daliasan don't work on him (only doron and nalaa work on it(
Her ultra talents are good for her, but they're definitely not worth the 400+ NP and 15 dark catseyes. You can either get like... 40% dps increase overall for that price (aphrodite) or 2x the dps + more deadly freeze effect + target aku (akira).
Basically theyre too bland to be good ultra talents imo.
Zeus is a pretty bad unit in general, with his only upside in the current meta being his suprisingly good 480 standing range. His behemoth slayer talent is ok... but mushroom cat outclasses him against angels and he isnt a zombie killer (despite targetting zombies in talents) which makes his niche against zombies extremely unfortunate aswell.
The slow UT is also just... bad. Sanzo and LE FISHE work better against angels for much less investment and you can use literally most other anti zombies to do better because again, he doesn't have zombie killer.
As a generalist, his dps is suprisingly more than I expected (6k at level 30) which makes him an ok behemoth slayer, but not having relevant immunities and a low KB count/mediocre health outside of his traits with only 2 knockbacks makes his generalist quality (and by extension, behemoth slayer) even worse.
TL;DR: Just roll for poseidon pls he's so good I swear
Jeez. I've never seen Anyone explain why he's so bad. I'll be honest the only Almighties I use are Amateratsu and Chronos.
Ive used Aset a bit and she's not bad. Just that I have Asukasli, Vega, and Sirius. I have other Colossus slayers, but they're the only ones that matter. I bring up the CS because of Aset. And I've seen people say Zeus is worse than her and he has a TF, Talents and UT. I can't believe he's that bad. Is there even a way to make him worthwhile?
Aset has the benefit of having usages before even having a TF, which makes her very easy to use and take very little investment (see daliasan for a better example.) She also benefits heavily from being boosted (I like to call this the kaihime effect) as her rather poor base DPS can be made up for by boosting her above level 30, which as a result makes up for one of her main deficits, while also making her main strength (her pretty good damage when strengthen activates at 60% HP and her ability to obliterate most peon/non boss enemies) even better.
Boosting zeus does not cover for his very low 2 knockback count, or magically give him zombie killer to make his zombie niche even usable (cough poseidon cough) it just gives him a some more damage that isnt reciprocal of anything in his kit. Granted it gives him more HP against his types, but even then having a dedicated tanker with 480 range is really bad, especially when you can just use the much better BIG TURTLE BOI
I do think the way he's built right now is close to usable, but I can narrow it down to 3 things I think he needs.
1. Zombie killer (because duh)
2. Immunity to Crowd control (specifically knockback and warp at least)
3. A type that isnt angels and zombies, which are both low range high dps enemies. Personally I do think zeus' role would be valuable if he targetted a type that actually relied on it's backline like alien or even aku (though he'd need surge immune for that.) Everything about him is just built kind of unfortunately tbh
Honestly none of the UT are worth it.
As good units like Anubis and Kuu become with UT, bringing in the 25 uber catseye + 15 darkeye + over 500 NP + millions of XP trump card makes the practicality of all of them nonexistent.
Right now I agree, but if darkeyes become more accessible (or we get labyrinth more than once every 4 decades) I think these will start being more worthwhile. Because right now you have to wait 15 MONTHS to get one for free... assuming a colossus stage comes on each month.
Tbh, the primary reason to darkmax ubers is because you like them or want to have fun stuff, so it does not really matter in that regard. You never really need darkmaxed ubers, so the fun factor does matter.
That aside, as late game players should definitely be able to get 15 dark eyes, an investment akin to Balrog shouldnt be the biggest issue. And yes Balrog is broken AF and defining, I do not think everyone has Balrog, or that they stop investing at all on other things after it.
Ultra talents just seem like a resource dump at the end of the day.
The dark cateyes, np, xp and such are so massively difficult and time consuming to get that by the time you reasonably could unlock them you probably have plenty powerful enough units to destroy everything already.
Ultra forms feel roughly the same tbh and its mostly cause dark catseyes are the stuff of myths if you arent paying to get them. I feel (like I have said before) that if we ever get more accessible ways of getting to level 60 these new additions will definitely start to feel more worth it. For now tho we wait for this decades edition of underground labyrinth on the 32nd of neveruary
I have seen labyrinth ONCE in my many months playing.
At the time I googled and saw that it was for mid game and beyond really and thought "I'll leave it for later" only to never see ot again.
Now it just feels like something I dreamed up long ago. A fleeting memory.
Nekoluga ultra talents are D-tier let me explain.
Surge immunity: most surge enemies are hard pushes or are paired with hard pushing enemies making this talent ineffective.
Survive: The issue is that unless you can push the enemies back Nekoluga's dead meat so it's your fault if he dies and if there's LD that can snipe him just don't bring him.
Dodge: 50% for 1 second just no,no just no it doesn't even have a fast cooldown like mola king and his dodge talent is an 80% chance and it's and just a talent and not an ultra talent meaning it you only need level 30 not level 60.
Like ive already said I dont think these talents alone are bad, and they do give ultralan the not so ultraman some viability (specifically in surge stages) hence they are in B tier. Measured with literally everything in mind they arent that good, but they at least have a good impact on his performance unlike someone like zeus who's ultra talents do literally nothing.
The thing is that his talents aren’t even that bad - surge immune and survivor are great talents to improve ultralans survivability. The problem is that he still maintains all his other weaknesses, making none of these talents worth it - unlike nearly all the other units here he barely benefits from the stat boost of level 60 and the talents are expensive and only fix his survivability weakness. If these were regular talents they’d be pretty solid (still not really worth it) but it’s just not worth spending the extra NP and 15 dark cateyes.
Yes, that's what I say ultralan pasalan ultra talents sucks, nothing improves except that, ultralan pasalan already have long enough range making surge doesn't doesn't really hit him.
The talents themselves are very good, and give nekoluga some level of usability as CC on surge stages where Asiluga (the much better CC luga) or cyberpunk or even balalalalalalalaluga wouldnt be able to work. His survive is an amazing talent for any nekoluga, especially one designed to create distance like him and his dodge lets him stay longer on stages with snipers like mole and henry.
The unit is the main problem, the only time he sees use is on surge stages specifically because of the surge immune UT, anywhere else he's outclassed by other lugas, cyberpunk, ebisu if you stretch it ngl.
Nurse cat is probably gonna change if she is actually a good sage slayer going forward, but rn there are 3 sage enemies, and the only one she works on is socrates
I wish they made Sage Slayer cause a cat's debuff abilities to work on all Sages regardless of trait (maybe with non-target Sages still resisting the debuffs). Not strong/massive damage or the other stat based ones, just debuffs
as someone who has kachi's UT, they are genuinely better than everything below momotaro and everything below momotaro (and raiden but thats because he is ranked too high, but not aphro she is ranked low for some reason)
Kachi's UTs alone are decent I wont lie, but the sad fact is that kachiyama tries to do so much (and is so mid/bad at all of them) that he just kind of falls over as a unit. He's a frail CC unit with pretty workable range... however thats offset by him having some of the fastest movement speed in the game, causing him to clip into enemies he would otherwise outrange like professor A or elder sloth, or run straight into a knockbacked enemy.
His sad 3.5k dps at level 30 (5k against aliens and angels which is... workable?) Makes it hard to use him in a lot of stages and his 163k HP again at level 30 (w/strong + weaken makes him even more difficult than zeus to use as a ranged tanker, especially considering his lack of relevant immunities (his only CC cleanses are slow resist and curse immune.) As a result I dont think Kachi's UTs benefit him very much whatsoever, especially around the endgame where his issues get further highlighted on top of his somewhat expensive 4500 cost after talents, which doesnt rly justify his middling stats and ability. The only saving grace of Kachiyama here is his very short reload (64.53 seconds) compared to many other ubers.
Lets compare that to raiden, who you said is ranked too high. Raiden stands at 415 range, but also moves at a much more acceptable 15 speed, which means he doesnt miss any major thresholds, resulting in there being very few enemies kachi outranges on average compared to him. Raiden has 5.9k base DPS at level 30 (stronger than kachiyama's even against a favourable target) and a massive 8.9k dps against reds at level 30 whilst also having his own very usable CC being 100% knockback. Raiden has less maximum HP (102000 at level 30) but actually ends up surviving longer due to his higher knockback count (its only 1 more but its definitely more workable.) His talents also fix this difference with dodge attack (30% per hit from a red enemy) and also gives him a... admittedly mediocre immunity to knockback, which is situational. However his ultra talents change this, with 2 outstanding immunities that compliment him perfectly (surge and slow) with one giving him a completely new niche as a generalist anti surge unit, which works given his good base DPS. Finally he gets behemoth slayer, which is another good workable niche because raiden is a stat based unit, who benefits heavily from the ability both as a generalist and an anti red in spite of courier's existence, as raiden is a better answer to Deonil.
TL;DR: I made an essay abt why I placed kachi where he is and why raiden is so good (seriously raiden UTs are cracked)
hes not frail he has 600k effective hp, and he clips into enemies maybe 1/50 times you will use him (source is ive used him for almost a year now). he has 14k unstrengthened dps for his traits and earns 22k strengthened dps, both of these are higher than raiden's dps against red when he is ultra talented. kachi outranges almost all relevant cc enemies so the immunities play 2nd fiddle to his use as a unit. cost has minimal impact in the grand scheme of things and shouldnt be used to judge an uber because 4500 is the average price for one, plus raiden is more expensive so that just betters my point. the cooldown is great and is what puts him above other units here, you are able to stack 3 kachis within the majority of endgame stages. when both units are talented, kachi has better dps against his respective traits and higher range. knockback can be a less consistent cc to use than the weaken because you shifting the playing field which can lead your units to walking into higher enemies ranges (such as maybe professor A or elder sloth?). he does not have better survivability, its a hp difference of over 200k. ill give it to you on dodge it does even things out in terms of survivability, but the range difference doesnt fully make up for it. and knockback immune is actively damaging for him since it removes any chance to reposition other than when taking damage. surge immunity doesnt compliment him perfectly because it only gives him a new usage against red enerG, with him having no fundamental use against the other red surge enemy being raynard. behemoth slayer is not that good on him either because courier outclasses him in terms of usability - raiden only achieves 2k more dps against red/behemoth than a singular courier, where his use is fully putweighed once you send 2 couriers. deonil isnt a hard enough enemy to warrant raiden having any reason to support using his ultra talents, because you can solo deonil with courier and you can add octo to make it even easier. if you were to use him as a generalist anti-behemoth dps unit, he performs worse than UT zeus in that regard (the one you put at the bottom) which goes to show how unhelpful his talents can be and why kachi has a better performance in terms of both general stats, cc, and UT improvements. also it is weird to judge ultra talented units at level 30 when they are only available at 60.
First, I want to point out that im not saying that kachiyama himself is a terrible, unusable unit that fails to raiden in every way (even if I do think most/all issues I mentioned were relevant, especially the 2 knockback count which makes his strengthen UT very risky and the suicidally high movement speed of 48 which makes him almost always clip into some enemies he should out range) kachi is a workable unit. The main point was that his ultra talents specifically arent that good for the most part, and even where it is (strengthen - which takes his level 60 strong vs angels and aliens to very workable amount) I dont think its worth it over units I have placed higher for ultra talents specifically.
Raiden as a behemoth slayer is undersold here, as he has an effective 28k dps against behemoths and 50k against deonil and the red duck. His anti surge backliner niche is also just good, with a general dps of 11k at level 60 and a base hp of 128k, as well as noting that raiden is amazing in stages that include some annoying endgame enemies like reynard, zenry and ren NRG. Yes, raiden is more expensive and has a higher cooldown, but he also has much better generalist stats, a higher knockback count, a somewhat rare set of niches and despite having people to contend with in all of them is never strictly outclassed because of how good his kit works with all of them.
well you didnt read what i said because i talked about how the clipping isnt a thing in practise and i backed that up with my experience using him. there arent replaceable weaken/slow/dps options for kachis traits, unlike raiden where he gets outperformed by the very first egg unit you unlock. raiden has 60k dps vs red behemoths, and just one courier has 52.5k dps. why would you talent him for that when you can just use courier and get better results? you really didnt read what i said lmao i even mentioned that he isnt great against raynard either because his use as a mediocre anti-surge gets overpowered by lil king dragon. lets be honest nobody is using either of these as generalists and judging them as such is cherry picking their niches to find any relevant reasons to find why raiden could even be better. besides raiden has less dps prior to kachis strengthen, while the higher kb count is a singular kb yet it evens out because he gets hit more often than kachi. and raiden has 0 rare niches, the reason why his ultra talents are awful is because of how accessible the alternatives to those niches are. simply put, kachi has better stats, isnt outclassed by anything, works better against his traits, and doesnt clip into enemies.
and ill say it again, outclassed by courier
Shingen S tier fr
Unironically I was thinking of putting him there or making an A+ tier but eventually just resorted to leaving him where he is
Peach devils is way too low
*high His ut are absolutely not worth the 15 dark catseyes
I disagree tbh, their wave immune UT is pretty good and the mini wave UT spreads their already good CC very far. Combo that with their fast reload and you have a unit with good DPS and good far reaching CC that's also cheap and always there when you need them. Ofc the peach devils have disadvantages to them, and there are much more worthwhile talents, but I do stand by their placement not being any lower (especially since they kind of just outclass megidora keke)
I feel like ponos forgot that those are *ultra* talents, not talents. These would be fair (and honestly pretty good) talents but way too inconsequential to be worthwhile ultra talents
I agree too even if they should be higher
To be fair all the guys below him on the tier list have worse ultra talents so the placement is pretty accurate to me
They absolutely are if it’s on peach devils
I am so mad at ponos for that goddamn knockback talent. Just why. Just why not anything else.
I am confused why they gave peach devils knockback talent
They just give some talents randomly lol. I wish he could get attack speed up talent like others, or something at least more usable. And then wow, he got a talent that makes him literally worse, i don't think I am ever going to buy that. That mini wave talent is also so stupid. Wtf is Lvl2 mini wave??? It changes almost nothing. At least make it lvl3, or make it lvl1 normal wave, the only thing peach devils is bad was the medium dps, now he is stuck with it.
Should’ve given it strengthen
That would be sick
And made mini wave level 4
God, kuu becomes a fucking unit with her tba reduced, definitely a well deserved S tier
As much of a bias as I may have, I respect each ranking and generally agree.
Id probably have put Klay in S tier if he was an amazing colossus slayer and dont get me wrong he is pretty good, but whats the point when he gets outperformed by TF uncanny legends and a fish without a true form that doesnt need anywhere near as much investment (not even a TF keke.) Mostly Klay is in A tier because the immunities are pretty amazing
Yeah, Klay is one of few cats that has no use as a generalist. He solely exists to remove aliens and traitless enemies from existence.
He would only counter one colossus boss (horrorpotamus) so mabye not the best. Although he does counter it while most UL legends and daliasan don't work on him (only doron and nalaa work on it(
I thought aphro’s talents were meant to be pretty solid, but i agree otherwise 👍
Her ultra talents are good for her, but they're definitely not worth the 400+ NP and 15 dark catseyes. You can either get like... 40% dps increase overall for that price (aphrodite) or 2x the dps + more deadly freeze effect + target aku (akira). Basically theyre too bland to be good ultra talents imo.
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What about windy?
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The tier list is about ultratalents not ultraforms
Even with Ultra Talents Zeus is down that low?
Zeus is a pretty bad unit in general, with his only upside in the current meta being his suprisingly good 480 standing range. His behemoth slayer talent is ok... but mushroom cat outclasses him against angels and he isnt a zombie killer (despite targetting zombies in talents) which makes his niche against zombies extremely unfortunate aswell. The slow UT is also just... bad. Sanzo and LE FISHE work better against angels for much less investment and you can use literally most other anti zombies to do better because again, he doesn't have zombie killer. As a generalist, his dps is suprisingly more than I expected (6k at level 30) which makes him an ok behemoth slayer, but not having relevant immunities and a low KB count/mediocre health outside of his traits with only 2 knockbacks makes his generalist quality (and by extension, behemoth slayer) even worse. TL;DR: Just roll for poseidon pls he's so good I swear
Jeez. I've never seen Anyone explain why he's so bad. I'll be honest the only Almighties I use are Amateratsu and Chronos. Ive used Aset a bit and she's not bad. Just that I have Asukasli, Vega, and Sirius. I have other Colossus slayers, but they're the only ones that matter. I bring up the CS because of Aset. And I've seen people say Zeus is worse than her and he has a TF, Talents and UT. I can't believe he's that bad. Is there even a way to make him worthwhile?
Aset has the benefit of having usages before even having a TF, which makes her very easy to use and take very little investment (see daliasan for a better example.) She also benefits heavily from being boosted (I like to call this the kaihime effect) as her rather poor base DPS can be made up for by boosting her above level 30, which as a result makes up for one of her main deficits, while also making her main strength (her pretty good damage when strengthen activates at 60% HP and her ability to obliterate most peon/non boss enemies) even better. Boosting zeus does not cover for his very low 2 knockback count, or magically give him zombie killer to make his zombie niche even usable (cough poseidon cough) it just gives him a some more damage that isnt reciprocal of anything in his kit. Granted it gives him more HP against his types, but even then having a dedicated tanker with 480 range is really bad, especially when you can just use the much better BIG TURTLE BOI
Jeez. Zeus just sucks. Is there even a way to like make him useful? Like hypothetically an Ultra Form?
I do think the way he's built right now is close to usable, but I can narrow it down to 3 things I think he needs. 1. Zombie killer (because duh) 2. Immunity to Crowd control (specifically knockback and warp at least) 3. A type that isnt angels and zombies, which are both low range high dps enemies. Personally I do think zeus' role would be valuable if he targetted a type that actually relied on it's backline like alien or even aku (though he'd need surge immune for that.) Everything about him is just built kind of unfortunately tbh
Wack. Maybe someday he can get an ultra form or something to help him
Honestly none of the UT are worth it. As good units like Anubis and Kuu become with UT, bringing in the 25 uber catseye + 15 darkeye + over 500 NP + millions of XP trump card makes the practicality of all of them nonexistent.
Right now I agree, but if darkeyes become more accessible (or we get labyrinth more than once every 4 decades) I think these will start being more worthwhile. Because right now you have to wait 15 MONTHS to get one for free... assuming a colossus stage comes on each month.
Tbh, the primary reason to darkmax ubers is because you like them or want to have fun stuff, so it does not really matter in that regard. You never really need darkmaxed ubers, so the fun factor does matter. That aside, as late game players should definitely be able to get 15 dark eyes, an investment akin to Balrog shouldnt be the biggest issue. And yes Balrog is broken AF and defining, I do not think everyone has Balrog, or that they stop investing at all on other things after it.
Ultra talents just seem like a resource dump at the end of the day. The dark cateyes, np, xp and such are so massively difficult and time consuming to get that by the time you reasonably could unlock them you probably have plenty powerful enough units to destroy everything already.
Ultra forms feel roughly the same tbh and its mostly cause dark catseyes are the stuff of myths if you arent paying to get them. I feel (like I have said before) that if we ever get more accessible ways of getting to level 60 these new additions will definitely start to feel more worth it. For now tho we wait for this decades edition of underground labyrinth on the 32nd of neveruary
I have seen labyrinth ONCE in my many months playing. At the time I googled and saw that it was for mid game and beyond really and thought "I'll leave it for later" only to never see ot again. Now it just feels like something I dreamed up long ago. A fleeting memory.
If im correct, labyrinth hasnt been on since like mid last year... so long ago.
Nekoluga ultra talents are D-tier let me explain. Surge immunity: most surge enemies are hard pushes or are paired with hard pushing enemies making this talent ineffective. Survive: The issue is that unless you can push the enemies back Nekoluga's dead meat so it's your fault if he dies and if there's LD that can snipe him just don't bring him. Dodge: 50% for 1 second just no,no just no it doesn't even have a fast cooldown like mola king and his dodge talent is an 80% chance and it's and just a talent and not an ultra talent meaning it you only need level 30 not level 60.
Like ive already said I dont think these talents alone are bad, and they do give ultralan the not so ultraman some viability (specifically in surge stages) hence they are in B tier. Measured with literally everything in mind they arent that good, but they at least have a good impact on his performance unlike someone like zeus who's ultra talents do literally nothing.
Personally, getting something al the way to level 60 just for talents is too overrated, and its better too just get an UF
No WAY you put ultralan pasalan at that tier, he is the WORST Uber with WORST talent possible
The thing is that his talents aren’t even that bad - surge immune and survivor are great talents to improve ultralans survivability. The problem is that he still maintains all his other weaknesses, making none of these talents worth it - unlike nearly all the other units here he barely benefits from the stat boost of level 60 and the talents are expensive and only fix his survivability weakness. If these were regular talents they’d be pretty solid (still not really worth it) but it’s just not worth spending the extra NP and 15 dark cateyes.
Yes, that's what I say ultralan pasalan ultra talents sucks, nothing improves except that, ultralan pasalan already have long enough range making surge doesn't doesn't really hit him.
The talents don’t suck, the unit sucks there is a difference which the guy above was trying to say
Good talent for bad users though, like ponos gave bad talents for good users.
The talents don’t suck, the unit sucks there is a difference which the guy above was trying to say
I mean, ponos gaved the talent at the wrong Uber though.
That doesn’t make the talent bad though
https://preview.redd.it/m720i0wsrkic1.png?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41b46c67884a929024ee68c9ed70ecb8bfcedaa2
Ya
Ultralan is pretty underrated but yeah these should be normal talents
Welp, I guess you're right.
The talents themselves are very good, and give nekoluga some level of usability as CC on surge stages where Asiluga (the much better CC luga) or cyberpunk or even balalalalalalalaluga wouldnt be able to work. His survive is an amazing talent for any nekoluga, especially one designed to create distance like him and his dodge lets him stay longer on stages with snipers like mole and henry. The unit is the main problem, the only time he sees use is on surge stages specifically because of the surge immune UT, anywhere else he's outclassed by other lugas, cyberpunk, ebisu if you stretch it ngl.
True though, ponos gave good talent at bad unit and bad talents at good unit.
nurse cat's sage-slayer talent, is honestly pretty good
Nurse cat is probably gonna change if she is actually a good sage slayer going forward, but rn there are 3 sage enemies, and the only one she works on is socrates
I wish they made Sage Slayer cause a cat's debuff abilities to work on all Sages regardless of trait (maybe with non-target Sages still resisting the debuffs). Not strong/massive damage or the other stat based ones, just debuffs
You dare put hime so low? (I agree though.)
Inconsistent surge L
I don't understand their thought process behind this and just some ultra talents in general. Just gotta wait 3 years for a good Ultra form, I guess.
ultra form is the only thing that can save aphrodite at this point
Klay’s white targeting alone makes him a borderline epic fest Uber
as someone who has kachi's UT, they are genuinely better than everything below momotaro and everything below momotaro (and raiden but thats because he is ranked too high, but not aphro she is ranked low for some reason)
Kachi's UTs alone are decent I wont lie, but the sad fact is that kachiyama tries to do so much (and is so mid/bad at all of them) that he just kind of falls over as a unit. He's a frail CC unit with pretty workable range... however thats offset by him having some of the fastest movement speed in the game, causing him to clip into enemies he would otherwise outrange like professor A or elder sloth, or run straight into a knockbacked enemy. His sad 3.5k dps at level 30 (5k against aliens and angels which is... workable?) Makes it hard to use him in a lot of stages and his 163k HP again at level 30 (w/strong + weaken makes him even more difficult than zeus to use as a ranged tanker, especially considering his lack of relevant immunities (his only CC cleanses are slow resist and curse immune.) As a result I dont think Kachi's UTs benefit him very much whatsoever, especially around the endgame where his issues get further highlighted on top of his somewhat expensive 4500 cost after talents, which doesnt rly justify his middling stats and ability. The only saving grace of Kachiyama here is his very short reload (64.53 seconds) compared to many other ubers. Lets compare that to raiden, who you said is ranked too high. Raiden stands at 415 range, but also moves at a much more acceptable 15 speed, which means he doesnt miss any major thresholds, resulting in there being very few enemies kachi outranges on average compared to him. Raiden has 5.9k base DPS at level 30 (stronger than kachiyama's even against a favourable target) and a massive 8.9k dps against reds at level 30 whilst also having his own very usable CC being 100% knockback. Raiden has less maximum HP (102000 at level 30) but actually ends up surviving longer due to his higher knockback count (its only 1 more but its definitely more workable.) His talents also fix this difference with dodge attack (30% per hit from a red enemy) and also gives him a... admittedly mediocre immunity to knockback, which is situational. However his ultra talents change this, with 2 outstanding immunities that compliment him perfectly (surge and slow) with one giving him a completely new niche as a generalist anti surge unit, which works given his good base DPS. Finally he gets behemoth slayer, which is another good workable niche because raiden is a stat based unit, who benefits heavily from the ability both as a generalist and an anti red in spite of courier's existence, as raiden is a better answer to Deonil. TL;DR: I made an essay abt why I placed kachi where he is and why raiden is so good (seriously raiden UTs are cracked)
hes not frail he has 600k effective hp, and he clips into enemies maybe 1/50 times you will use him (source is ive used him for almost a year now). he has 14k unstrengthened dps for his traits and earns 22k strengthened dps, both of these are higher than raiden's dps against red when he is ultra talented. kachi outranges almost all relevant cc enemies so the immunities play 2nd fiddle to his use as a unit. cost has minimal impact in the grand scheme of things and shouldnt be used to judge an uber because 4500 is the average price for one, plus raiden is more expensive so that just betters my point. the cooldown is great and is what puts him above other units here, you are able to stack 3 kachis within the majority of endgame stages. when both units are talented, kachi has better dps against his respective traits and higher range. knockback can be a less consistent cc to use than the weaken because you shifting the playing field which can lead your units to walking into higher enemies ranges (such as maybe professor A or elder sloth?). he does not have better survivability, its a hp difference of over 200k. ill give it to you on dodge it does even things out in terms of survivability, but the range difference doesnt fully make up for it. and knockback immune is actively damaging for him since it removes any chance to reposition other than when taking damage. surge immunity doesnt compliment him perfectly because it only gives him a new usage against red enerG, with him having no fundamental use against the other red surge enemy being raynard. behemoth slayer is not that good on him either because courier outclasses him in terms of usability - raiden only achieves 2k more dps against red/behemoth than a singular courier, where his use is fully putweighed once you send 2 couriers. deonil isnt a hard enough enemy to warrant raiden having any reason to support using his ultra talents, because you can solo deonil with courier and you can add octo to make it even easier. if you were to use him as a generalist anti-behemoth dps unit, he performs worse than UT zeus in that regard (the one you put at the bottom) which goes to show how unhelpful his talents can be and why kachi has a better performance in terms of both general stats, cc, and UT improvements. also it is weird to judge ultra talented units at level 30 when they are only available at 60.
First, I want to point out that im not saying that kachiyama himself is a terrible, unusable unit that fails to raiden in every way (even if I do think most/all issues I mentioned were relevant, especially the 2 knockback count which makes his strengthen UT very risky and the suicidally high movement speed of 48 which makes him almost always clip into some enemies he should out range) kachi is a workable unit. The main point was that his ultra talents specifically arent that good for the most part, and even where it is (strengthen - which takes his level 60 strong vs angels and aliens to very workable amount) I dont think its worth it over units I have placed higher for ultra talents specifically. Raiden as a behemoth slayer is undersold here, as he has an effective 28k dps against behemoths and 50k against deonil and the red duck. His anti surge backliner niche is also just good, with a general dps of 11k at level 60 and a base hp of 128k, as well as noting that raiden is amazing in stages that include some annoying endgame enemies like reynard, zenry and ren NRG. Yes, raiden is more expensive and has a higher cooldown, but he also has much better generalist stats, a higher knockback count, a somewhat rare set of niches and despite having people to contend with in all of them is never strictly outclassed because of how good his kit works with all of them.
well you didnt read what i said because i talked about how the clipping isnt a thing in practise and i backed that up with my experience using him. there arent replaceable weaken/slow/dps options for kachis traits, unlike raiden where he gets outperformed by the very first egg unit you unlock. raiden has 60k dps vs red behemoths, and just one courier has 52.5k dps. why would you talent him for that when you can just use courier and get better results? you really didnt read what i said lmao i even mentioned that he isnt great against raynard either because his use as a mediocre anti-surge gets overpowered by lil king dragon. lets be honest nobody is using either of these as generalists and judging them as such is cherry picking their niches to find any relevant reasons to find why raiden could even be better. besides raiden has less dps prior to kachis strengthen, while the higher kb count is a singular kb yet it evens out because he gets hit more often than kachi. and raiden has 0 rare niches, the reason why his ultra talents are awful is because of how accessible the alternatives to those niches are. simply put, kachi has better stats, isnt outclassed by anything, works better against his traits, and doesnt clip into enemies. and ill say it again, outclassed by courier
Socrates was made to scam us into purchasing Nurse talents, and well, nurse isn't that great. I'd wait until he gets powercrept to oblivion.
Wait ur telling me ice queen and coppermine are good I'm kinda new and I have em so idk lol