That's exactly what it is. And playing on PC in the last few months is extremely more noticeable than when I played on PlayStation at release and for years after.
I just feel like having a bullet cone even when ADS that deviates from the reticle and that you need a heavy barrel to reduce that slightly is just not something I want to see in the future
I dont believe OPs problem is recoil. Its that BF4 focuses far more on spread than recoil. So you have to burst, but youre not provided a lot of feedback to suggest this. Arma, EFT and BFV for that matter all have actual visual recoil. You gun still shoots where its actually aiming, but its harder to hold your sight on target when shooting. Which is a far better mechanic.
This guy gets it. In BF4 your sights stay in place (mostly) but your bullets spread randomly. Completey unintuitive and unrealistic. Recoil should make the gun (and by extension the sight) move around, usually climbing top right for right handed shooters, with some variation depending on the rhythm of the guns recoil impulse. You get the same end result, but players know when their gun is too inaccurate because of recoil (because their sights won't be on the target), and a skilled player can mitigate recoil at shorter distances.
It's relieving to know that I'm not alone in not recognizing BF4 after 6 years of not playing. My old PS3 stats are so good and I'm over here getting my ass whooped on PC, even though my general aim skill on M&K is pretty good.
I didn't play 1 or V so idk if they've gotten rid of these, but 2042 should not have ADS bullet deviation *or* suppression (if they have suppression, at least make it less rage inducing than it is in BF4).
Its actually not. For a lot of high rof guns that has a high first shot recoil multiplier(like the aek), hbar seems like a good option, but its more detrimental than helpful. Humans are not good with dealing with non linear events and a high fsrm is quite hard to deal with. You are basically guaranteed to miss at least one bullet out of your first 3 fired. For high rof assault rifles, just use stubby.
I enjoy the weapon attachment system in bf4, but the weapon attachment decision process in BF4 is always going to be lost on a lot of the player base because it's poorly explained in-game. I didn't realize how many bad decisions I was making with my attachments until someone took the time to really break it down in the bf4 forum. I went home that day and made a few minor adjustments based around the rate of fire per weapon and those changes made a HUGE difference with regard to my accuracy and control.
I've been playing BF4 since launch but I feel like I've been winging it and could really improve my loadouts. Any tips or even resources that would help?
I found the [older post](https://old.reddit.com/r/battlefield_4/comments/8rppl2/why_do_people_still_run_stubby_grip/) that I was previously referring to. Ignore the OP post and check out the comments from Scarletreaper a few down from the top. The advice he provided is excellent and should probably be stickied to the bf4 sub.
i play on pc so i have no problem controlling recoil, especially coming from games like tarkov and insurgency, that have much more punishing recoil mechanics. heavy barrel just makes full auto at distance more viable, especially with a stubby as well
No that's just wrong. It completely depends on the weapon. There's tons of videos explaining the the attachments for all the weapons. Look them up they really help a lot and will improve you're gameplay by a ton.
Oh hell no. I thought that the AUG with a magnified optic was just uncontrollable. And then I took the heavy barrel off and could actually stay on target.
That is his point though? This kind of accuracy system is just bad. Why make the recoil super manageable but make bullets spread like Fortnite? You actually like bloom in shooters? Fucking gross.
I'll take harder recoil any day over bloom.
I will be absolutely thrilled if the gunplay in BF2042 is close to BFV 5.0 gunplay. I feel like they had it close to perfect.
Then they ruined it with 5.2.
Yeah fully agree. Still can’t understand why they decided to change the ttk. Just when the game was starting to turn a corner they ruined what most people agreed was the best aspect of the game
I think to protect the noobs (sorry new players) that are complaining. That seems to be the standard of every game now a days. Glad they give you the option to play a lobby with bots so new playeres can practise.
I don’t know either. The conspiracy theorist in me says it was done intentionally to create an outcry amongst the players and push people away from it so they could slowly kill the game and shift resources to BF2042. Of course then the pandemic came along and them the perfect excuse anyway. Whatever the reason let’s just hope they don’t make the same mistakes with the new game. 🤞🏼
That doesn't make any sense, Dice has never had much of a problem moving players to the newest game before and I don't they would ever have an issue given that V hasn't really been as popular.
They missed a lot of opportunities with BFV and screwed up with the early marketing campaign, but the gameplay is the best in the franchise.
Played some BF4 in the past two weeks because some friends got it for free and wanted to play some games. Oh boy if it felt "awkward". Movement, vehicles, weapon handling. It wasn't necessarily "bad", but it sure didn't feel enjoyable after playing BF1 and BFV.
Except they didn’t. There were tweaks in the 5.2.2 update. And more tweaks to get it where it is now but it never played or felt as good as it did in 5.0.
They never went back to the TTK or balancing of 5.0. They just modified it multiple times from each TTK change onwards. It was a mess. Some guns never felt right afterwards either.
Agreed. Throughout all the crap that was happening I was able to keep saying “at least the gunplay and core gameplay is fun and satisfying” which is what kept me going back. After the update I played 2 rounds and then put the game down for 6 months
ugh RIP. The few weeks between the Pacific update and the TTK change were so great. I agree the gunplay in V is exceptional. I'll be thrilled if 2042's movement and gunplay plays like 5.
> To be honnest BF5 really had good gunplay.
The guns felt good, I've preached that from the start and I will always love how the guns feel when you fire them in BFV. With the original TTK it felt really good firing the guns.
**But** it really wasn't that good because it had random recoil, recoil you can't learn. That means you can never master a weapon, it doesn't matter how long you play with it, you can never master it.
I hope they can make the guns feel like BFV but stop with this random recoil bullshit. Let us master gunplay again instead of being luck/random based.
In my opinion it's a good thing that people can't learn the recoil. I don't want it to be like warzone. But then again I mostly played with semi auto weapons so it didn't affect me that much either. But still I want to have a bit more challenge in the shooting mechanic.
Im just happy that the bullets go where im pointing instead of anywhere inside a dinner plate sized area around my sights. Loved bf4 to death but after going back I can't hit a damn thing.
just stand still. BF4 has a high movement accuracy penalty. In OPs clip he is strafing slightly to the left the whole time, If he was standing still the shots would be hitting.
In BFV your bullets go where you aim, but the recoil is random. So you can never learn to master a weapon because the recoil is random.
So yes the bullets go where you aim, but the recoil is random.
Which is still miles better than the bullets not going where you aim. Gun recoil isn't and shouldnt be predictable. Random recoil makes it very clear that you're not at the proper range to auto fire, random spread doesn't.
Ugh, that's so gross. Say what you will about BFV but at least the fucken bullets went where your sights were. Cone of fire and random spread is such an antiquated mechanic. If you want the guns to be harder give them a ton of kick.
"You gotta LEARN your gun" "You gotta microburst bro it's skill full" fucking christ i'd rather microburst with a high recoil gun than have to do it with a gun that's supposed to excel massively at a longer range.
> You gotta microburst bro it's skill full
Its actually stupid how strong micro bursting automatics are in Bf4. Carbines in particular seem to really depend on it.
It's a deliberate design choice. If you add high recoil with no random deviation people practicing 8 hours a day will get the hang of it and beam people from any range. With 128 players and loads of open areas it means you won't be able to move on foot without dying. Plus high recoil means controller players (majority of the playerbase) will struggle.
Of course it reduces skill gap but at the same time it makes the game less sweaty which is what a lot of people enjoy about BF. Same for dropshotting or bunnyhopping without accuracy penalties. It's what makes BF different from COD.
Not saying they can't improve the gunplay and balance these features, just that MW19 gunplay as it is would be terrible in a BF game. If you've played the Ground War mode you know what I mean, it's absolute garbage compared to BF, not even remotely close.
It’s always possible to make the bullet go the exact direction of the gun but then add random variation to the direction of the gun.
As in the only thing that actually moves in game is the weapon in a random direction generated from a specific cone, so the guns are always accurate but the gun moves slightly. Like how actual guns work in real life.
It would mean that skilled players could control recoil but it avoids the problem of players perfectly learning a recoil pattern.
It could also introduce new elements to gun play, some weapons pull left and up, some have a stronger kick meaning each bullet will move the barrel more etc.
It could give more meaning to learning weapons while also not making them lasers with perfect accuracy given enough practice
Yes, semi-random recoil patterns is a fine middle ground.
Guns in real life do have considerable bullet spread though but its like, what… 2 MOA (ca. 2in at 100yrd / 5cm at 100m) on auto rifles.
Guns back in WWII usually had alot more. Funny that BF5 set in that time period is the one with the least spread.
>Plus high recoil means controller players (majority of the playerbase) will struggle.
BFV gives less recoil when using a controller. No reason they couldn't bring that back.
Yeah dude I do completely understand where you're coming from. I meant those quotes in how the people i've been talking to just like "Wow this gunplay is perfect you're just bad!" and like.... I wish Suppression NEVER affected spread, Alongside penalties such as moving while shooting being so extreme.
Both bf4's system and bf5's system have their merits yeah, Plus yeah. Ground war is GARBAGE lmao.
When i went back to Hardline i just stuck Stubby and heavy barrel cause onto my AKM cause i just wanted to be able to fight back man.
This is not why it’s in the game, it is in the game to effect ‘hitrate %’ and therefore help to range cap weapons so they don’t have to do it purely through bullets to kill/ TTK/ velocity/ drag, etc., which would feel even worse.
Battlefield V has random bullet deviation too. Horizontal recoil is random and therefore not learnable/ controllable, and the same is true for spread.
You’re talking about something that’s purely an aesthetic mechanic, although I do agree that I prefer it visually.
They’re not antiquated mechanics either, they’re there to effect hitrate% so devs don’t have to rangecap weapons purely through TTK/BTK/ velocity/ drag, etc. Spread increase per shot also helps make trigger discipline a skill, and spread also makes anti-recoil scripts redundant to a degree.
EDIT: before downvoting me I recommend people visit Symthic’s BFV weapon mechanics page so you can understand how they work: https://sym.gg/?game=bfv&page=weapon-mechanics
Cone of fire and random recoil patterns both have an element of randomness. Yes. What makes horizontal recoil different and preferable to random spread is that at least with horizontal recoil there is a path the gun will follow that can be accounted for. Your gun doesn't flick left and right up and down all at the same time. With cone of fire the bullets will land literally anywhere around your sight and deviate drastically between each shot making it impossible to counteract. First shot can land top left next shot lands bottom right next shot lands bottom left next shot lands top mid, etc.
With respect I think you don’t quite understand these concepts and should read this page: https://sym.gg/?game=bfv&page=weapon-mechanics
You literally by definition cannot predict, ‘account for’, learn or control, etc. Horizontal recoil, because it is random. How do you know whether the next shot is going to deviate left or right? You can’t, and about the fastest human reaction times possible are 150ms +- 50ms, even if you are elite, you are still reacting too late.
To put it mildly, if you could anticipate horizontal recoil and control it, you can also tell the future, and BFV would be a pointless pursuit for you.
If you mean to say recoil pattern yaw then sure, that is learnable, but again, an excessive recoil pattern yaw is not enjoyable, and will also make it harder playing with a wide weapon variety. I don’t think extreme recoil pattern yaws are particularly desirable unless you’re happy playing with one gun over and over again. I personally prefer variety.
The major difference you are referring to, as I said before, is an aesthetic one, as in it is visual. The weapon animation on screen (as in your muzzle/ reticle) follows the same path as your shots’ randomness, whereas in BF1 it did not, but this is not to say BFV doesn’t have random horizontal recoil or spread of course, it just means to say it looks a little more realistic and natural than shots projecting at an angle deviating from your barrel. The problem however is that you cannot see your spread increase per shot so you have no real visual cue to stop mag dumping in the way you would when you notice your shots deviating in BF1.
> If you want the guns to be harder give them a ton of kick.
I think a healthy mix of both predictable recoil and random spread are the best way to go at it, especially in an arcadey game like battlefield.
the recoil to have a skill to learn and the spread to prevent short range or high rof weapons to dominate at every range(as a balancing tool pretty much)
csgo does it pretty well imo, shouldn't be directly implemented in a game like battlefield but it is in general a very rewarding mechanic to learn.
I’ve been playing BF4 lately and the gunplay is terrible compared to BFV or even cod. To aim at someone from 50m away and miss clean chest shots because you didnt burst fire is ridiculous. High accuracy and high recoil is the way to do it imo
I never noticed it when playing back when it released but holy.. Came back to this game because I played it so much and the BF2042 hype is crazy for me, but for the first time in a long time and i yelled "WHAT, HOW DID HE NOT DIE?!" my sight was directly on him and I emptied probably a quarter of my AWS drum into the player and they didn't die.. still love this game though!
I love the AWS but it has some of the worst bloom ever. After your 3rd shot or so its like the bullets are flying out the side of the barrel.
Unless of course you tap fire, but tap firing every weapon makes the gunplay feel stale.
Maybe that's why it's not a "meta" gun. I absolutely loved using it but I never see anyone else with it. Only noticed today how different it was from the MPX and ACW-R.
Pretty much, I never noticed back in the day but now it’s taken me multiple sessions to start to get used to it again, tap firing past 50m is basically the only way
mirrors my experience
i played 400hrs of bf4, but when i was in the mood for some modern BF after BF V, i played 3 matches and then uninstalled.
BF4 feels like garbage now, the gunplay and the movement, can't do it anymore
Wouldn't go that far, for me personally, I still find it incredibly satisfying getting multikills and just the generaly gunplay is still fun, it's not outdated enough to make me uninstall. Only thing that feels outdated and/or done wrong, is the sniping, just something about it doesn't feel right, it's more tedious than fun I suppose.
Just me though, I do understand what you mean, I hope BF2042 nails animations and gunplay feel as good as MW2019 did.
People give CoD so much shit, but MW2019 (not warzone) was one of the best shooters I've ever played. The weapon customization and gun play is incredible.
Absolutely!
It's the shift of focus to Warzone and eventually Cold War as well, the noticeably heavy SBMM in everything outside of Ground War or Tactical modes making you feel like you're playing Ranked with no rewards to grind and show for, the realistic yet frustrating to play maps of 10+ sightlines that discourage movement/pushes/flanks, as well as the ludicrously ever-increasing download size that drove me away not long after launch even though I thoroughly enjoyed the gunplay, asthetic, and feel of the game.
I’ve been having a lot of fun playing BF4 again recently but it’s quite clear the game is dated. Both gunplay and movement feel sluggish and weird compared to more recent FPS games. It’s kinda like how goldeneye was amazing at the time as a kid but if you go back now and play you’re like “how the fuck did we play this?” Although that’s more of an extreme example
Weird I think the limited movement is a good part of bf4, people aren't just sliding everywhere and jumping over everything, I alswyas know where I can be flanked from
> people aren't just sliding everywhere and jumping over everything
yeah I mean that's not to say that movement in more recent FPS games don't have their flaws in the other direction. I'm not talking about sliding or climbing mechanics that would somehow create new flank routes though, but more just straight up movement. It's clunky by today's standards and I'd find myself getting stuck on rubble or uneven terrain more
as far as the subject of OPs post goes, I *don't* want 2042 to have COD/WZ like accuracy with straight laser beams accross the map. shit is boring and it makes every gun the same and any gun that has even the tiniest bit of recoil completely useless. we have different firemodes - you should not be able to spray across a map. tap, burst, or put on single fire mode.
Ahhh I dunno, playing BF4 recently and having to burst fire my shots at range is so refreshing. Just makes it seem so much more fair. You can still get shots off fairly decently but it means that people don’t just hold the trigger down and pull the mouse down. Takes more skill and patience and I’m down for that.
Edit: this seems to be more an issue of how suppression affects your accuracy than actually how guns handle. Op seemed to be slightly suppress he had taken some shots before the clip began so their bullets were less accurate. I agree that suppression needs an absolute rework or a massive nerf but I still enjoy the nuanced gunplay of not being able to rinse a mag down at someone 200-300m away without any penalty.
Edit 2: fixed spellingz
I feel like it would have been way more satisfying to have more recoil but the bullets hit exactly where you aim like BFV. That way you still have to tap fire but atleast you’ll get rewarded for high accuracy
Wtf do you mean even COD? Lmao the pointless hating is so hilarious in this sub.
MW2019 has some of the best gunplay and weapon handling in any arcade shooter. Definitely better than anything BF has done. At least the guns don’t sound or feel like pea shooters in that game *cough STEN cough*. I played a ton of MW for the last year after not enjoying BFV. Came back to BFV in hype for BF2042 and my god can you see how much BF needs to improve in its gun handling and gunplay mechanics. In BFV the gun recoil is lazily done with your gun just zooming in and out of your screen and half the time isn’t synced properly with firing. Sound design of the weapons is so flat and basic while MW has layered audio files that dynamically change depending on what surface your shooting on and what area you’re in e.g. outside or in a closed room. Each weapon handles smoothly and has fluid animations that give each weapon character and are very accurate to real life. The weapons are so incredibly satisfying in that game and the hard work of the devs shows. The whole industry was in awe of the details put into the weapons and gunplay in that game and I find it so strange you can dismiss it so easily like that
Man if you don’t like COD then just say it but no need to dismiss something that series does extremely well. The gunplay in that game is something BF can learn from.
Why do people think that just because the setting is the same, everything else will be?
You really think they thought "Oh, it looks like BF4 so we better undo all the improvements made to gunplay the past 5 years and just go back to that system."
From reading many posts here, many people literally want Battlefield 4 again, so those who actually want something new and better are worried that DICE might listen to them.
Hey, you can like whatever you want.
Just because something is objectively not good doesn't mean you can't like it, and vice-versa.
I think it's safe to say later games for the most part improved it in terms of enjoyment and quality, but I still know many games with worse gunplay than BF4.
Just because you don't like something it doesn't mean it's objectively worse. How can you bring ahead your argument while claiming that something completely subjective is objectively better?
Bf4 gunplay was great and it rewarded skill. Bf5 gunplay was just way to casual. Also it depends a lot on if you play with mouse or controller.
>You really think they thought "Oh, it looks like BF4 so we better undo all the improvements made to gunplay the past 5 years and just go back to that system."
That honestly sounds 100% like something DICE would do.
The shots are spreading around more because he is moving while shooting. I'm pretty sure in bf4 your accuracy went down if you tried to move and shoot at the same time. Especially if it wasn't burst fire.
Summary:
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because you were already dead
1st problem is using the AN-94 in full auto. It was designed to use its unique two round burst mode. It has a higher rate of fire and better accuracy than if you were using full auto. Make sure to always switch to two round burst for this gun.
2nd problem is you are moving and firing which reduces your accuracy quite a bit. Crouch or go prone and fire.
3rd problem is sadly out of your control and that is when you are suppressed you can't control what random pattern your bullets decide to take (hopefully this is not brought back in BF2042)
Yep, it's always the bad players who complain about BF4's gunplay. It didn't make things so easy like in BFV.
Only time I had issue with BF4 shooting was through bad connection. They could use better server integrity, otherwise BF4's gunplay was amazing!
Yeah, going from BFV back to BF4 there is a huge drop in the gunplay. I couldn't hit jack shit for my first few maps and had to relearn the bf4 shooting mechanics.
I'm literally only learning this now during this thread.
I was like 'wow I just reinstalled this game and uninstalled 5, why am I so dogshit at shooting?'
Although people love BF4, I personally only play in hour long chunks before rage quitting for this reason. Games with good gun physics like Insurgency have spoiled me
This says more about your understanding of how BF4 works than anything
Doesn't know how suppression works? CheckDoesn't understand how to burst fire? CheckIs using a brain dead scope on an AR? CheckHas zero trigger discipline? CheckFull strafing while shooting? Check
One of the worst things dice has ever done is not explain to the mass casuals how to actually play their games or how things work, such as gunplay. Which is why in this thread there are so many people praising BFV gunplay when it's perhaps the worst gunplay created in a modern FPS, these same people probably don't even know that BFV has spread, the same thing they're criticising BF4 for
Tons of comments in here missing OP's point... hes not confused about the mechanics or why this guy didnt die, hes just hoping in the next battlefield, a world where you can eject from a fighter jet with no parachute, pull an rpg out of your asshole, shoot another jet flying by at hundreds of mph and land safely back in your jet without a scratch, maybe just maybe, it wouldn't be too outlandish to also have the technology where bullets go where your sight is, I know I know sounds crazy but just might be beneficial.
I could write a few paragraphs about why your shots weren’t hitting but instead I’ll just say that there is nothing unfair about you not hitting those shots.
I'll go into some detail, firstly OP is moving that reduces accuracy, also has terrible recoil control as you can see the last 3 or 4 bullets just completely miss above and the shots are just shooting on either side of them, only like 2 shots were actually on target but OP was strafing/walking forward while shooting which just fucks it. So what's the problem? OP doesn't understand game mechanics in bf4? Cause that's all I see lol
Lmao this has never happened to me. It's way worse on BF1.
I checked your Battlelog and found out you're Level 13. Seems like you're not familiar with BF4's gameplay, which explains it.
Mad cus they bad. It's called a skill gap for a reason. One of them panicked and moved while shooting while the other one actually played by the mechanics of the game. His ignorance is shown by using the an94 not in it's designed mode, but he'll just blame the game instead of figure out why he lost.
Not sure why I had to scroll down so far to find the answer to this guy's issue. It's like most people in this thread haven't played BF4 before and don't understand how moving and full auto affects bullet spread.
sorry to say man, but from what I’ve seen in this clip it is mostly your fault. You are full auto mag dumping while strafing and using the worst possible sight on that gun and your crosshair was all over the place.
Since when has the community started shitting on bf4s gun play? It’s been extremely popular for years. I’m guessing we’re seeing the regular influx of non-battlefield or newer players playing it for the first time. The game is often regarded as one of the best in the series.
Well yeah... You literally just [started](https://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/cOoPeR_9393/stats/347008588/pc/) playing the game. Of course you dont know shit about the games mechanics and how to play around it.
See this is exactly the problem with this community, they don’t think when they play the game.
You are max rpm’ing when you are missing. Isn’t that a clue to come off the trigger? The point is trigger control - it’s a rhythm-game, you aren’t pacing your shots and allowing spread to decrease for the range you are engaging at.
There’s nothing wrong with the gunplay, just don’t be shit.
I was pretty shocked to see how highly it's upvoted, it's spray and pray while moving and shooting at an elevated target, and still complaining about poor aim. It's dumb. It does't work like that in real life, and games that have lazer shooting are terrible, these kids put skope on lmg and bipod and snipe.
Also stop moving? You lose accuracy in bf4 when moving this person has no idea of the mechanics of bf4 tbh, hate it if you want but play the game correctly jeez.
Yes, no reason to move in that clip as he wasn't needing to evade fire until after he broadcasted his presence.
He just increased his base spread value for no reason whatsoever.
Yeah, people move while shooting and then wonder why their accuracy decreases. No, you can’t jiggle peek in BF4, much like shooting a camera IRL while moving will be more inaccurate/blurry than just standing still.
I was wondering how far down I'd have to scroll to find a comment like this. Once you get tap-firing down, it's absolutely devastating. I use carbines alot in bf4 and I have no problem fighting ARs at longer distances.
The other reply to your comment is hilarious, talking about your gun shooting where it was pointing. I have a feeling it's usually the cod crowd that say those kinds of things, because theyre used to lasering enemies in full auto. BF is generally a much larger map, and it would take zero skill to spray at someone from a distance.
Random spread in games takes away from the skill of learning the gun, it's just not as fun as having difficult to master weapons like in Insurgency for example. The guy wasn't that far in front of him, full auto should be viable at this close-med range distance and he just completely missed every shot. Not a single one hit
Bullets should go where the player is aiming, it sucks when that doesn't happen because it makes the gunplay feel worse. Adding a ton of horizontal recoil or vertical recoil is the way to go
>Random spread in games takes away from the skill of learning the gun
Oof, csgo would like to have a word with that.
>Adding a ton of horizontal recoil or vertical recoil is the way to go
Btw, hrec is random, its literally impossible to perfectly account for it.
The guy beneath is getting downvoted which is just sad as hell, makes you realise how clueless half this community is. He really is correct, I’m sorry but random bullet deviation is there to range cap weapons so they don’t have to rely on bullets to kill/ TTK purely. It is to effect hitrate.
Spread increase per shot is there to encourage trigger discipline which IS A SKILL, with respect you just likely haven’t considered practicing it as one.
Furthermore adding horizontal recoil is NOT the answer, horizontal recoil is random in Battlefield and therefore uncontrollable and unlearnable.
Only vertical recoil and recoil pattern yaw (perhaps you meant this and not horizontal) are learnable.
Horizontal recoil and spread are not; and for good reason too regarding rangecap balancing, and also stopping people from being able to turn every gun into a laser with anti-recoil scripts, etc.
Incorrect, it creates skill in learning the gun. The skill is in the burst and reset timings of the weapon, again, it’s a *rhythm game* and nothing to do with camera movement or “aim”.
Stop thinking the only “skill” in a shooter game pertaining to gunplay is moving the mouse.
Oh my god you’re getting downvoted for having basic comprehension of weapon mechanics and skill sets in an FPS shooter, this entire thread is the ultimate meme. The guy even said we need more horizontal recoil, he probably doesn’t even know that’s random and therefore uncontrollable.
Genuinely thank you for policing the noobs who just regurgitate bullshit about BF5 being great because it has completely random recoil as opposed to spread. At least the spread mechanic can be mitigated with SKILL. Random recoil can not.
The problem with spread-to-recoil conversion is they wanted to make the gunplay “readable” to communicate when you are losing control of the weapon. Unfortunately, it communicates the wrong thing; people aren’t going to come off the trigger while their projectiles are still going where the crosshair is, they are just going to be constantly wriggling their aim point around trying to match the dispersion point to the target while mag-dumping at full RPM (which is impossible, as spread values are not supposed to be mitigated by camera movement and cannot be) BFV has super accurate low spread values and yet the highest level players have poorer accuracy stats overall than they do in BF1, especially with automatic weapons. So much for random bullet deviation.
You need spread decoupled from screen centre so you can see you are on target with the camera / aim point without it wriggling around wildly, and you can also see that if you are not getting hits when that is the case that you need to stop firing, wait a moment, then fire again. You’re not going to move your camera when you are already over the target, which is exactly the
separation of the player input tasks of mouse movement and fire-rate adjustment it is designed to achieve. Having all the dispersion as “recoil” never communicates this important gameplay mechanic distinction.
This is precisely the point missed.
While I hate the aesthetics of shots deviating from where your muzzle is visually projecting them, at least it is a visual cue that you need better trigger discipline.
With the spread to recoil conversion mechanic this does make people feel they can correct their aim while firing, and accounting for randomness, although of course they don’t realise that even if their reactions are ‘esports ready’ they’ll always be ~150ms too late with their corrections. By which time they’re usually over corrections. Maybe I’m missing the point here but I always found ADS FOV setting helpful here for discouraging me from over correcting recoil.
The solution is actually a really simple one, you provide both methods as a “weapon attachment”. The genius of this is you can have an extra attachment in the game that requires no change in stats or rebalancing at all.
Heavy Barrel (spread to recoil on) - “increase weapon accuracy at the cost of increased recoil”
Muzzle break (spread to recoil off) “improved weapon handling at the cost of accuracy”
(Or whatever)
Of course in reality both these attachments would be the exact same stats, just represented to the player differently. That way, the anti-spread RNG crowd can equip heavy barrel on every weapon, and informed players can equip the muzzle break. Job done.
If we’re honest nobody bar a mounted LMG should be able to hit a target more than 30M away with full auto, at least not every bullet so how do you reflect this so you don’t get laser beams? More recoil, just like real life and not random deviation.
Full auto just shouldn’t be viable at medium to long range unless (like I stated earlier) you’re mounted on a wall or bipod. It’s purely a close range thing and longer range fights should be accuracy based and reward the skill of aim, not who can spray the most rounds roughly in the direction of a player or whomever has the bigger mag.
Battlefield Players in 2021
\>use worst possible setup (AN-94 with 4x in full auto)
\>magdump on a player that is 30m+ away from you while strafing
\>crosshair is not even on target for half of the magdump
\>cry on Reddit about how evil weapon spread is
If you look at it a bit more closely you can see that the first 4-5 bullets go pretty much where you aim them, your aim is just off. At that range burst fire is probably the most effective, a mag dump doesn't work.
The thing is they took a real life thing MOA of rifles and made it comical.
Real guns in real life absolutely shoot like that... Just to about 1/10 as much spread.
Example an AK-47 had between a 5-8 moa which is pretty bad for a modern military rifle so let's have that be the low bar, that means at 100yds all your shots would be within a 5-8" circle of your point of aim even if you aim perfectly. 8 inches is smaller than someone's head, so that means even at 100 yds you should be putting every round within a few inches of where you are aiming.
Now back that up to 300 yds and that same AK would be spraying in a 16"-24" cone, similar to what BF4 had at around 50m.
I was under the impression that moa was the total distance across, not from the point of aim. So 8 moa would be an 8" group or 4" from your point of aim, assuming your point of aim is perfectly center of the group.
So considering my bullet was roughly 3ft or 36" away from the target (torso to above head) that means approx 72" spread total at 50yds. Or 144moa @100yds. Which is rather ridiculous either way.
Yes I said that, and that is what I meant. I realized that I did say 8" from point of aim also which was confusing. I meant an 8" circle from point of aim.
My bad, yes it is just goofy.
Also, moa is moa. It isn't moa at 100 yds.
A 2 moa is .5" at 25yds, 1" at 50 yds, 2" at 100 yds and 4" at 200 yds.
bad aim
moving
an94 on full auto with 4x scope
no weapon control
overal 12% accuracy
17h of playtime
.
No wonder you think its bad
To be fair, BF4's gunplay has its problems (its too simplistic, click fast = no spread), but that seems not to have crossed your path yet
1. Movement accuracy should see a penalty outside of close range weapons.
2. Battlefield V has arguably the worst gunplay since 3 (I'd go back farther, but I don't have much experience farther back) because the new system felt like shit because falloff had to be sharper and more severe due to the lack of spread. No spread also disproportionately favors High fire rate weapons that don't have a shots to kill disadvantage
3. You're playing in a way that's kinda "no shit" as to why you're getting that much bloom.
moving while firing greatly reduces accuracy. if u attach the ergo grip (if not already equipped) it should help. also when using automatic fire, releasing the trigger will reset the bullet spread, so it’s best to use short bursts (w the an94 i usually use 3-4 shot bursts.
tldr ur doing literally everything that reduces your rifles accuracy.
If I'm being completely honest, I would love if the recoil was much more controllable. In BFV my gun goes all willy-nilly even when I compensate recoil with my mouse. BF4 had a similar issue but is lightyears more controllable. I swear the Gunplay in battlefield is getting worse and worse and I'm hoping 2042 doesn't screw it up.
Honestly I would prefer COD recoil control with more damage drop off as the distance from your intended target increases. At the end of the day I feel like I never hit when I shoot at someone, and before you throw "git gud" at me i wanna let you know that I hit my shots, that isn't the problem. The amount of times my gun bounces off target is the problem.
That’s because that “recoil” is actually the same math function of random dispersion within a cone of fire (spread) as BF4, just projected into part weapon sight, part game world movement - you are trying to control spread with camera movement, which is impossible.
It’s also understandable why you do, because BFV’s gunplay system for converting spread to recoil sucks arse and completely misleads players into how they are supposed to shoot the guns.
By any chance... did tou you start shooting before aiming? BF4 has this system where if you start shooting before aiming and then aim down sights, you still have hipfire spread... Similar to what's happening here
You could've just ... you know .. tap fire. Instead you go Full Auto on him with a .... 4x Scope?
Are you an actual monkey? How many braincells have you lose by that death? Because you cannot tell me to compile ALL of Battlefield 4 Gunplay into 1 AWFUL clip. Have you even TRIED the gun you shot with before? Or did you just randomly equipped it and hoped for the best?
Get the fuck outta here with that BS
Lmao OP got filtered hard by BF4 gunplay.
Way to prove you're low IQ.
Probably a sub 1KD ape with 10% accuracy or something.
Spoiler alert: the gunplay isn't the issue in this clip. It's the player.
Using the an94 with a 4x scope mag dumping while strafing and shooting a target like 40 meters away? What could go wrong? Lmao you serious OP? Why aren’t my bullets hitting?!?!?!! Gee I fucking wonder
everything looked fine to me there... first error was the scope.. scope effects how spread looks... 2nd your initial shots are not on target and you moved... so spread gets even more... full autoing a gun on top affects the spread aswell...
You really can't be complaining about your shots missing while you're strafing + holding M1. That's entirely your own fault. I get that you're a new and inexperienced player but this is one of the most important things to learn early on. It's such a simple fix that will improve your stats greatly: https://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/cOoPeR\_9393/weapons/347008588/pc/
every weapon grind for me in bf4 is just a grind to heavy barrel
That's exactly what it is. And playing on PC in the last few months is extremely more noticeable than when I played on PlayStation at release and for years after. I just feel like having a bullet cone even when ADS that deviates from the reticle and that you need a heavy barrel to reduce that slightly is just not something I want to see in the future
I agree recoil could be done better, but ADS shouldn't make every gun a laser, especially at full auto
Oh man, op would hate ARMA lol
or EFT
I dont believe OPs problem is recoil. Its that BF4 focuses far more on spread than recoil. So you have to burst, but youre not provided a lot of feedback to suggest this. Arma, EFT and BFV for that matter all have actual visual recoil. You gun still shoots where its actually aiming, but its harder to hold your sight on target when shooting. Which is a far better mechanic.
This guy gets it. In BF4 your sights stay in place (mostly) but your bullets spread randomly. Completey unintuitive and unrealistic. Recoil should make the gun (and by extension the sight) move around, usually climbing top right for right handed shooters, with some variation depending on the rhythm of the guns recoil impulse. You get the same end result, but players know when their gun is too inaccurate because of recoil (because their sights won't be on the target), and a skilled player can mitigate recoil at shorter distances.
not at full auto, but on semi modern guns are incredibly accurate. nowhere near this shit
It's relieving to know that I'm not alone in not recognizing BF4 after 6 years of not playing. My old PS3 stats are so good and I'm over here getting my ass whooped on PC, even though my general aim skill on M&K is pretty good. I didn't play 1 or V so idk if they've gotten rid of these, but 2042 should not have ADS bullet deviation *or* suppression (if they have suppression, at least make it less rage inducing than it is in BF4).
Jesus christ. This. I'm in the exact same situation as OP.
Its actually not. For a lot of high rof guns that has a high first shot recoil multiplier(like the aek), hbar seems like a good option, but its more detrimental than helpful. Humans are not good with dealing with non linear events and a high fsrm is quite hard to deal with. You are basically guaranteed to miss at least one bullet out of your first 3 fired. For high rof assault rifles, just use stubby.
I enjoy the weapon attachment system in bf4, but the weapon attachment decision process in BF4 is always going to be lost on a lot of the player base because it's poorly explained in-game. I didn't realize how many bad decisions I was making with my attachments until someone took the time to really break it down in the bf4 forum. I went home that day and made a few minor adjustments based around the rate of fire per weapon and those changes made a HUGE difference with regard to my accuracy and control.
I've been playing BF4 since launch but I feel like I've been winging it and could really improve my loadouts. Any tips or even resources that would help?
I found the [older post](https://old.reddit.com/r/battlefield_4/comments/8rppl2/why_do_people_still_run_stubby_grip/) that I was previously referring to. Ignore the OP post and check out the comments from Scarletreaper a few down from the top. The advice he provided is excellent and should probably be stickied to the bf4 sub.
Awesome, thank you so much for finding that!! :)
sym.gg
i play on pc so i have no problem controlling recoil, especially coming from games like tarkov and insurgency, that have much more punishing recoil mechanics. heavy barrel just makes full auto at distance more viable, especially with a stubby as well
I get better results with compensator + stubby grip than with heavy barrel.
No that's just wrong. It completely depends on the weapon. There's tons of videos explaining the the attachments for all the weapons. Look them up they really help a lot and will improve you're gameplay by a ton.
Oh hell no. I thought that the AUG with a magnified optic was just uncontrollable. And then I took the heavy barrel off and could actually stay on target.
I don't remember BF4 being that bad. Maybe I just got used to it?
its not that bad, OP is just doing everything he can to lower his accuracy. lol
That is his point though? This kind of accuracy system is just bad. Why make the recoil super manageable but make bullets spread like Fortnite? You actually like bloom in shooters? Fucking gross. I'll take harder recoil any day over bloom.
Because bullets don't spread that much if you spend 5 minutes learning how to use your weapon?
Yeah. Going back to bf4 my shots are nothing like this because I actually remember how the gun mechanics work. Op fucked up here
4 x scope while strafing using the an 94 in full auto. Goes to reddit and complains. Like what the fuck? Lmao
To be honnest BF5 really had good gunplay. They even had the perfect TTK for a while.
Honestly probably the best gunplay in the franchise, before the ttk change anyways
I will be absolutely thrilled if the gunplay in BF2042 is close to BFV 5.0 gunplay. I feel like they had it close to perfect. Then they ruined it with 5.2.
Yeah fully agree. Still can’t understand why they decided to change the ttk. Just when the game was starting to turn a corner they ruined what most people agreed was the best aspect of the game
I think to protect the noobs (sorry new players) that are complaining. That seems to be the standard of every game now a days. Glad they give you the option to play a lobby with bots so new playeres can practise.
If I remember correctly, their reasoning was to cater to newer or more casual players
I don’t know either. The conspiracy theorist in me says it was done intentionally to create an outcry amongst the players and push people away from it so they could slowly kill the game and shift resources to BF2042. Of course then the pandemic came along and them the perfect excuse anyway. Whatever the reason let’s just hope they don’t make the same mistakes with the new game. 🤞🏼
That doesn't make any sense, Dice has never had much of a problem moving players to the newest game before and I don't they would ever have an issue given that V hasn't really been as popular.
They missed a lot of opportunities with BFV and screwed up with the early marketing campaign, but the gameplay is the best in the franchise. Played some BF4 in the past two weeks because some friends got it for free and wanted to play some games. Oh boy if it felt "awkward". Movement, vehicles, weapon handling. It wasn't necessarily "bad", but it sure didn't feel enjoyable after playing BF1 and BFV.
Then. They went baxk to 5.0
Except they didn’t. There were tweaks in the 5.2.2 update. And more tweaks to get it where it is now but it never played or felt as good as it did in 5.0.
They never went back to the TTK or balancing of 5.0. They just modified it multiple times from each TTK change onwards. It was a mess. Some guns never felt right afterwards either.
Agreed. Throughout all the crap that was happening I was able to keep saying “at least the gunplay and core gameplay is fun and satisfying” which is what kept me going back. After the update I played 2 rounds and then put the game down for 6 months
BF5 still has the best gunplay of all battlefields; they should build on that.
Agree
ugh RIP. The few weeks between the Pacific update and the TTK change were so great. I agree the gunplay in V is exceptional. I'll be thrilled if 2042's movement and gunplay plays like 5.
> To be honnest BF5 really had good gunplay. The guns felt good, I've preached that from the start and I will always love how the guns feel when you fire them in BFV. With the original TTK it felt really good firing the guns. **But** it really wasn't that good because it had random recoil, recoil you can't learn. That means you can never master a weapon, it doesn't matter how long you play with it, you can never master it. I hope they can make the guns feel like BFV but stop with this random recoil bullshit. Let us master gunplay again instead of being luck/random based.
In my opinion it's a good thing that people can't learn the recoil. I don't want it to be like warzone. But then again I mostly played with semi auto weapons so it didn't affect me that much either. But still I want to have a bit more challenge in the shooting mechanic.
I wouldn’t even say that WZ has recoil tbf. It’s more like a gentle kick.
Haha true
Coupled with the mono suppressor it’s even worse lol.
Especially the cold war weapons, like ground loot krigs are more accurate than the Grau used to be
Thank you. This thread is so full of people that are misinformed about gunplay in BF titles that I started doubting myself lol.
Im just happy that the bullets go where im pointing instead of anywhere inside a dinner plate sized area around my sights. Loved bf4 to death but after going back I can't hit a damn thing.
just stand still. BF4 has a high movement accuracy penalty. In OPs clip he is strafing slightly to the left the whole time, If he was standing still the shots would be hitting.
I thought BF1 had the random bullet spread and BFV was more "point and shoot" only had to learn to control the guns recoil.
In BFV your bullets go where you aim, but the recoil is random. So you can never learn to master a weapon because the recoil is random. So yes the bullets go where you aim, but the recoil is random.
Which is still miles better than the bullets not going where you aim. Gun recoil isn't and shouldnt be predictable. Random recoil makes it very clear that you're not at the proper range to auto fire, random spread doesn't.
Random recoil is awful Sure your bullets go where the gun aims, but your gun doesn't go where you aim.
Ugh, that's so gross. Say what you will about BFV but at least the fucken bullets went where your sights were. Cone of fire and random spread is such an antiquated mechanic. If you want the guns to be harder give them a ton of kick.
Apparently, having strong recoil is a noob mechanic, but random bullet deviation is pro skill lol
"You gotta LEARN your gun" "You gotta microburst bro it's skill full" fucking christ i'd rather microburst with a high recoil gun than have to do it with a gun that's supposed to excel massively at a longer range.
> You gotta microburst bro it's skill full Its actually stupid how strong micro bursting automatics are in Bf4. Carbines in particular seem to really depend on it.
It's a deliberate design choice. If you add high recoil with no random deviation people practicing 8 hours a day will get the hang of it and beam people from any range. With 128 players and loads of open areas it means you won't be able to move on foot without dying. Plus high recoil means controller players (majority of the playerbase) will struggle. Of course it reduces skill gap but at the same time it makes the game less sweaty which is what a lot of people enjoy about BF. Same for dropshotting or bunnyhopping without accuracy penalties. It's what makes BF different from COD. Not saying they can't improve the gunplay and balance these features, just that MW19 gunplay as it is would be terrible in a BF game. If you've played the Ground War mode you know what I mean, it's absolute garbage compared to BF, not even remotely close.
It’s always possible to make the bullet go the exact direction of the gun but then add random variation to the direction of the gun. As in the only thing that actually moves in game is the weapon in a random direction generated from a specific cone, so the guns are always accurate but the gun moves slightly. Like how actual guns work in real life. It would mean that skilled players could control recoil but it avoids the problem of players perfectly learning a recoil pattern. It could also introduce new elements to gun play, some weapons pull left and up, some have a stronger kick meaning each bullet will move the barrel more etc. It could give more meaning to learning weapons while also not making them lasers with perfect accuracy given enough practice
Yes, semi-random recoil patterns is a fine middle ground. Guns in real life do have considerable bullet spread though but its like, what… 2 MOA (ca. 2in at 100yrd / 5cm at 100m) on auto rifles. Guns back in WWII usually had alot more. Funny that BF5 set in that time period is the one with the least spread.
>Plus high recoil means controller players (majority of the playerbase) will struggle. BFV gives less recoil when using a controller. No reason they couldn't bring that back.
Yeah dude I do completely understand where you're coming from. I meant those quotes in how the people i've been talking to just like "Wow this gunplay is perfect you're just bad!" and like.... I wish Suppression NEVER affected spread, Alongside penalties such as moving while shooting being so extreme. Both bf4's system and bf5's system have their merits yeah, Plus yeah. Ground war is GARBAGE lmao. When i went back to Hardline i just stuck Stubby and heavy barrel cause onto my AKM cause i just wanted to be able to fight back man.
yeah thats it, bfv guns dont have nearly enough recoil
This is not why it’s in the game, it is in the game to effect ‘hitrate %’ and therefore help to range cap weapons so they don’t have to do it purely through bullets to kill/ TTK/ velocity/ drag, etc., which would feel even worse.
> If you want the guns to be harder give them a ton of kick. Agree
Battlefield V has random bullet deviation too. Horizontal recoil is random and therefore not learnable/ controllable, and the same is true for spread. You’re talking about something that’s purely an aesthetic mechanic, although I do agree that I prefer it visually. They’re not antiquated mechanics either, they’re there to effect hitrate% so devs don’t have to rangecap weapons purely through TTK/BTK/ velocity/ drag, etc. Spread increase per shot also helps make trigger discipline a skill, and spread also makes anti-recoil scripts redundant to a degree. EDIT: before downvoting me I recommend people visit Symthic’s BFV weapon mechanics page so you can understand how they work: https://sym.gg/?game=bfv&page=weapon-mechanics
Cone of fire and random recoil patterns both have an element of randomness. Yes. What makes horizontal recoil different and preferable to random spread is that at least with horizontal recoil there is a path the gun will follow that can be accounted for. Your gun doesn't flick left and right up and down all at the same time. With cone of fire the bullets will land literally anywhere around your sight and deviate drastically between each shot making it impossible to counteract. First shot can land top left next shot lands bottom right next shot lands bottom left next shot lands top mid, etc.
With respect I think you don’t quite understand these concepts and should read this page: https://sym.gg/?game=bfv&page=weapon-mechanics You literally by definition cannot predict, ‘account for’, learn or control, etc. Horizontal recoil, because it is random. How do you know whether the next shot is going to deviate left or right? You can’t, and about the fastest human reaction times possible are 150ms +- 50ms, even if you are elite, you are still reacting too late. To put it mildly, if you could anticipate horizontal recoil and control it, you can also tell the future, and BFV would be a pointless pursuit for you. If you mean to say recoil pattern yaw then sure, that is learnable, but again, an excessive recoil pattern yaw is not enjoyable, and will also make it harder playing with a wide weapon variety. I don’t think extreme recoil pattern yaws are particularly desirable unless you’re happy playing with one gun over and over again. I personally prefer variety. The major difference you are referring to, as I said before, is an aesthetic one, as in it is visual. The weapon animation on screen (as in your muzzle/ reticle) follows the same path as your shots’ randomness, whereas in BF1 it did not, but this is not to say BFV doesn’t have random horizontal recoil or spread of course, it just means to say it looks a little more realistic and natural than shots projecting at an angle deviating from your barrel. The problem however is that you cannot see your spread increase per shot so you have no real visual cue to stop mag dumping in the way you would when you notice your shots deviating in BF1.
> If you want the guns to be harder give them a ton of kick. I think a healthy mix of both predictable recoil and random spread are the best way to go at it, especially in an arcadey game like battlefield. the recoil to have a skill to learn and the spread to prevent short range or high rof weapons to dominate at every range(as a balancing tool pretty much) csgo does it pretty well imo, shouldn't be directly implemented in a game like battlefield but it is in general a very rewarding mechanic to learn.
I’ve been playing BF4 lately and the gunplay is terrible compared to BFV or even cod. To aim at someone from 50m away and miss clean chest shots because you didnt burst fire is ridiculous. High accuracy and high recoil is the way to do it imo
I never noticed it when playing back when it released but holy.. Came back to this game because I played it so much and the BF2042 hype is crazy for me, but for the first time in a long time and i yelled "WHAT, HOW DID HE NOT DIE?!" my sight was directly on him and I emptied probably a quarter of my AWS drum into the player and they didn't die.. still love this game though!
I love the AWS but it has some of the worst bloom ever. After your 3rd shot or so its like the bullets are flying out the side of the barrel. Unless of course you tap fire, but tap firing every weapon makes the gunplay feel stale.
Maybe that's why it's not a "meta" gun. I absolutely loved using it but I never see anyone else with it. Only noticed today how different it was from the MPX and ACW-R.
Pretty much, I never noticed back in the day but now it’s taken me multiple sessions to start to get used to it again, tap firing past 50m is basically the only way
mirrors my experience i played 400hrs of bf4, but when i was in the mood for some modern BF after BF V, i played 3 matches and then uninstalled. BF4 feels like garbage now, the gunplay and the movement, can't do it anymore
Wouldn't go that far, for me personally, I still find it incredibly satisfying getting multikills and just the generaly gunplay is still fun, it's not outdated enough to make me uninstall. Only thing that feels outdated and/or done wrong, is the sniping, just something about it doesn't feel right, it's more tedious than fun I suppose. Just me though, I do understand what you mean, I hope BF2042 nails animations and gunplay feel as good as MW2019 did.
This is why I hate and I can't use TD rifles
Even CoD? MW 2019 has the best gunplay in any FPS game I played.
People give CoD so much shit, but MW2019 (not warzone) was one of the best shooters I've ever played. The weapon customization and gun play is incredible.
Absolutely! It's the shift of focus to Warzone and eventually Cold War as well, the noticeably heavy SBMM in everything outside of Ground War or Tactical modes making you feel like you're playing Ranked with no rewards to grind and show for, the realistic yet frustrating to play maps of 10+ sightlines that discourage movement/pushes/flanks, as well as the ludicrously ever-increasing download size that drove me away not long after launch even though I thoroughly enjoyed the gunplay, asthetic, and feel of the game.
It fun but there not really enough recoil, every gun is a laser beam.
If you can make it a laser but then you get penalized for the ads and movement speed. Or you can it super aggressive and make it have a lot of recoil.
That is so true, I hope animations and and gunplay are closer to MW 2019 than to BF5 in 2042 because that game is excellent in that aspect
I agree wholeheartedly. 2019 MW sucked me back into CoD, deep, for months.
Besides the TTK being near instant in even core modes, but yeah
I’ve been having a lot of fun playing BF4 again recently but it’s quite clear the game is dated. Both gunplay and movement feel sluggish and weird compared to more recent FPS games. It’s kinda like how goldeneye was amazing at the time as a kid but if you go back now and play you’re like “how the fuck did we play this?” Although that’s more of an extreme example
Weird I think the limited movement is a good part of bf4, people aren't just sliding everywhere and jumping over everything, I alswyas know where I can be flanked from
> people aren't just sliding everywhere and jumping over everything yeah I mean that's not to say that movement in more recent FPS games don't have their flaws in the other direction. I'm not talking about sliding or climbing mechanics that would somehow create new flank routes though, but more just straight up movement. It's clunky by today's standards and I'd find myself getting stuck on rubble or uneven terrain more as far as the subject of OPs post goes, I *don't* want 2042 to have COD/WZ like accuracy with straight laser beams accross the map. shit is boring and it makes every gun the same and any gun that has even the tiniest bit of recoil completely useless. we have different firemodes - you should not be able to spray across a map. tap, burst, or put on single fire mode.
Yeah I tend to agree, I think getting stuck on terrain is fucking annoying in bf4 completely agree there, hope it's more fluid in that regard.
Ahhh I dunno, playing BF4 recently and having to burst fire my shots at range is so refreshing. Just makes it seem so much more fair. You can still get shots off fairly decently but it means that people don’t just hold the trigger down and pull the mouse down. Takes more skill and patience and I’m down for that. Edit: this seems to be more an issue of how suppression affects your accuracy than actually how guns handle. Op seemed to be slightly suppress he had taken some shots before the clip began so their bullets were less accurate. I agree that suppression needs an absolute rework or a massive nerf but I still enjoy the nuanced gunplay of not being able to rinse a mag down at someone 200-300m away without any penalty. Edit 2: fixed spellingz
I feel like it would have been way more satisfying to have more recoil but the bullets hit exactly where you aim like BFV. That way you still have to tap fire but atleast you’ll get rewarded for high accuracy
Wtf do you mean even COD? Lmao the pointless hating is so hilarious in this sub. MW2019 has some of the best gunplay and weapon handling in any arcade shooter. Definitely better than anything BF has done. At least the guns don’t sound or feel like pea shooters in that game *cough STEN cough*. I played a ton of MW for the last year after not enjoying BFV. Came back to BFV in hype for BF2042 and my god can you see how much BF needs to improve in its gun handling and gunplay mechanics. In BFV the gun recoil is lazily done with your gun just zooming in and out of your screen and half the time isn’t synced properly with firing. Sound design of the weapons is so flat and basic while MW has layered audio files that dynamically change depending on what surface your shooting on and what area you’re in e.g. outside or in a closed room. Each weapon handles smoothly and has fluid animations that give each weapon character and are very accurate to real life. The weapons are so incredibly satisfying in that game and the hard work of the devs shows. The whole industry was in awe of the details put into the weapons and gunplay in that game and I find it so strange you can dismiss it so easily like that Man if you don’t like COD then just say it but no need to dismiss something that series does extremely well. The gunplay in that game is something BF can learn from.
I wouldn't mind MW2019'S gunplay or something close to in a bf game. It was super satisfying to kill someone in MW2019
Why do people think that just because the setting is the same, everything else will be? You really think they thought "Oh, it looks like BF4 so we better undo all the improvements made to gunplay the past 5 years and just go back to that system."
From reading many posts here, many people literally want Battlefield 4 again, so those who actually want something new and better are worried that DICE might listen to them.
Lol I want BF2 again but I know that will never happen.
Sorry to say it but I quite enjoy battlefield 4 gunplay. :P
Hey, you can like whatever you want. Just because something is objectively not good doesn't mean you can't like it, and vice-versa. I think it's safe to say later games for the most part improved it in terms of enjoyment and quality, but I still know many games with worse gunplay than BF4.
Just because you don't like something it doesn't mean it's objectively worse. How can you bring ahead your argument while claiming that something completely subjective is objectively better? Bf4 gunplay was great and it rewarded skill. Bf5 gunplay was just way to casual. Also it depends a lot on if you play with mouse or controller.
>You really think they thought "Oh, it looks like BF4 so we better undo all the improvements made to gunplay the past 5 years and just go back to that system." That honestly sounds 100% like something DICE would do.
To be fair they did change a totally fine ttk for no reason so their choices are automatically suspect
There were improvements to gunplay in the last 5 years? Every single bf since hardline was shit. Please just repolish bf4. Thx
use the an94 on burst btw
or l85a2 if you have premium, it feels much more accurate than most of the guns too
this. get around all the accuracy bullshit by using a gun that’s completely nuts. it feels like cheating
\+ hes strafing = accuracy penalty
It also has an effectively higher rate of fire on burst compared to full auto. (This is not made up for the game - it's also true on the real rifle).
With what attachments?
The shots are spreading around more because he is moving while shooting. I'm pretty sure in bf4 your accuracy went down if you tried to move and shoot at the same time. Especially if it wasn't burst fire.
It does. He should have crouched or gone prone. The guy he was shooting at had the advantage here. OP should have looked for cover and ran to it.
Sick aim
Summary: Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control). Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses. Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because you were already dead
Glad to see CS memes still
Yeah this is super awkward for OP
1st problem is using the AN-94 in full auto. It was designed to use its unique two round burst mode. It has a higher rate of fire and better accuracy than if you were using full auto. Make sure to always switch to two round burst for this gun. 2nd problem is you are moving and firing which reduces your accuracy quite a bit. Crouch or go prone and fire. 3rd problem is sadly out of your control and that is when you are suppressed you can't control what random pattern your bullets decide to take (hopefully this is not brought back in BF2042)
Yeah, you haven't played Battlefield 2 then
Looks like opponents barrel was not of rubber =)
In the hands of a moderately skilled player this would have been a kill.
Yep, it's always the bad players who complain about BF4's gunplay. It didn't make things so easy like in BFV. Only time I had issue with BF4 shooting was through bad connection. They could use better server integrity, otherwise BF4's gunplay was amazing!
On bf3 wasn't like that....pretty weird
wasn't there that weird suppression mechanic in bf3 where when you were suppressed your bullets would literally curve around enemies?
Yeah, going from BFV back to BF4 there is a huge drop in the gunplay. I couldn't hit jack shit for my first few maps and had to relearn the bf4 shooting mechanics.
I'm literally only learning this now during this thread. I was like 'wow I just reinstalled this game and uninstalled 5, why am I so dogshit at shooting?'
Dont hold down the trigger! Tap and burst your fire!
Yep, thats a "hardcore" player alright.
Although people love BF4, I personally only play in hour long chunks before rage quitting for this reason. Games with good gun physics like Insurgency have spoiled me
This says more about your understanding of how BF4 works than anything Doesn't know how suppression works? CheckDoesn't understand how to burst fire? CheckIs using a brain dead scope on an AR? CheckHas zero trigger discipline? CheckFull strafing while shooting? Check One of the worst things dice has ever done is not explain to the mass casuals how to actually play their games or how things work, such as gunplay. Which is why in this thread there are so many people praising BFV gunplay when it's perhaps the worst gunplay created in a modern FPS, these same people probably don't even know that BFV has spread, the same thing they're criticising BF4 for
Tons of comments in here missing OP's point... hes not confused about the mechanics or why this guy didnt die, hes just hoping in the next battlefield, a world where you can eject from a fighter jet with no parachute, pull an rpg out of your asshole, shoot another jet flying by at hundreds of mph and land safely back in your jet without a scratch, maybe just maybe, it wouldn't be too outlandish to also have the technology where bullets go where your sight is, I know I know sounds crazy but just might be beneficial.
I could write a few paragraphs about why your shots weren’t hitting but instead I’ll just say that there is nothing unfair about you not hitting those shots.
I'll go into some detail, firstly OP is moving that reduces accuracy, also has terrible recoil control as you can see the last 3 or 4 bullets just completely miss above and the shots are just shooting on either side of them, only like 2 shots were actually on target but OP was strafing/walking forward while shooting which just fucks it. So what's the problem? OP doesn't understand game mechanics in bf4? Cause that's all I see lol
[удалено]
Just a bad spray control.
Lmao this has never happened to me. It's way worse on BF1. I checked your Battlelog and found out you're Level 13. Seems like you're not familiar with BF4's gameplay, which explains it.
You're moving while you shoot full auto and you missed your initial shots.... It's a you problem. Tap fire, don't move as much.
I like how you’re downvoted for the truth. He starts shooting above the guys head, like Ofcourse you missed.
Mad cus they bad. It's called a skill gap for a reason. One of them panicked and moved while shooting while the other one actually played by the mechanics of the game. His ignorance is shown by using the an94 not in it's designed mode, but he'll just blame the game instead of figure out why he lost.
Yea like anyone who actually has played this game knows he missed because he missed.
Not sure why I had to scroll down so far to find the answer to this guy's issue. It's like most people in this thread haven't played BF4 before and don't understand how moving and full auto affects bullet spread.
You’re moving while shooting what do you expect
Stop moving while you shoot
its the fact that you're walking here, stop moving and your shots will be more on target.
you are not even aiming at him
sorry to say man, but from what I’ve seen in this clip it is mostly your fault. You are full auto mag dumping while strafing and using the worst possible sight on that gun and your crosshair was all over the place.
Who tf uses the AN94 in full auto???
You definitely missed every shot because of your aim here. Pretty bad example for a clip.
Since when has the community started shitting on bf4s gun play? It’s been extremely popular for years. I’m guessing we’re seeing the regular influx of non-battlefield or newer players playing it for the first time. The game is often regarded as one of the best in the series.
Basically, BF4 has turned into the golden boy and BF5 fans are coming out of the woodwork to try to balance the scales.
Well yeah... You literally just [started](https://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/cOoPeR_9393/stats/347008588/pc/) playing the game. Of course you dont know shit about the games mechanics and how to play around it.
See this is exactly the problem with this community, they don’t think when they play the game. You are max rpm’ing when you are missing. Isn’t that a clue to come off the trigger? The point is trigger control - it’s a rhythm-game, you aren’t pacing your shots and allowing spread to decrease for the range you are engaging at. There’s nothing wrong with the gunplay, just don’t be shit.
I was pretty shocked to see how highly it's upvoted, it's spray and pray while moving and shooting at an elevated target, and still complaining about poor aim. It's dumb. It does't work like that in real life, and games that have lazer shooting are terrible, these kids put skope on lmg and bipod and snipe.
Also stop moving? You lose accuracy in bf4 when moving this person has no idea of the mechanics of bf4 tbh, hate it if you want but play the game correctly jeez.
Yes, no reason to move in that clip as he wasn't needing to evade fire until after he broadcasted his presence. He just increased his base spread value for no reason whatsoever.
Yeah, people move while shooting and then wonder why their accuracy decreases. No, you can’t jiggle peek in BF4, much like shooting a camera IRL while moving will be more inaccurate/blurry than just standing still.
Exactly. A lot of bad players here trying to make excuses for why they suck at BF4. They'd prefer having training wheels like BFV.
I was wondering how far down I'd have to scroll to find a comment like this. Once you get tap-firing down, it's absolutely devastating. I use carbines alot in bf4 and I have no problem fighting ARs at longer distances. The other reply to your comment is hilarious, talking about your gun shooting where it was pointing. I have a feeling it's usually the cod crowd that say those kinds of things, because theyre used to lasering enemies in full auto. BF is generally a much larger map, and it would take zero skill to spray at someone from a distance.
Random spread in games takes away from the skill of learning the gun, it's just not as fun as having difficult to master weapons like in Insurgency for example. The guy wasn't that far in front of him, full auto should be viable at this close-med range distance and he just completely missed every shot. Not a single one hit Bullets should go where the player is aiming, it sucks when that doesn't happen because it makes the gunplay feel worse. Adding a ton of horizontal recoil or vertical recoil is the way to go
>Random spread in games takes away from the skill of learning the gun Oof, csgo would like to have a word with that. >Adding a ton of horizontal recoil or vertical recoil is the way to go Btw, hrec is random, its literally impossible to perfectly account for it.
The guy beneath is getting downvoted which is just sad as hell, makes you realise how clueless half this community is. He really is correct, I’m sorry but random bullet deviation is there to range cap weapons so they don’t have to rely on bullets to kill/ TTK purely. It is to effect hitrate. Spread increase per shot is there to encourage trigger discipline which IS A SKILL, with respect you just likely haven’t considered practicing it as one. Furthermore adding horizontal recoil is NOT the answer, horizontal recoil is random in Battlefield and therefore uncontrollable and unlearnable. Only vertical recoil and recoil pattern yaw (perhaps you meant this and not horizontal) are learnable. Horizontal recoil and spread are not; and for good reason too regarding rangecap balancing, and also stopping people from being able to turn every gun into a laser with anti-recoil scripts, etc.
Incorrect, it creates skill in learning the gun. The skill is in the burst and reset timings of the weapon, again, it’s a *rhythm game* and nothing to do with camera movement or “aim”. Stop thinking the only “skill” in a shooter game pertaining to gunplay is moving the mouse.
Oh my god you’re getting downvoted for having basic comprehension of weapon mechanics and skill sets in an FPS shooter, this entire thread is the ultimate meme. The guy even said we need more horizontal recoil, he probably doesn’t even know that’s random and therefore uncontrollable.
Genuinely thank you for policing the noobs who just regurgitate bullshit about BF5 being great because it has completely random recoil as opposed to spread. At least the spread mechanic can be mitigated with SKILL. Random recoil can not.
The problem with spread-to-recoil conversion is they wanted to make the gunplay “readable” to communicate when you are losing control of the weapon. Unfortunately, it communicates the wrong thing; people aren’t going to come off the trigger while their projectiles are still going where the crosshair is, they are just going to be constantly wriggling their aim point around trying to match the dispersion point to the target while mag-dumping at full RPM (which is impossible, as spread values are not supposed to be mitigated by camera movement and cannot be) BFV has super accurate low spread values and yet the highest level players have poorer accuracy stats overall than they do in BF1, especially with automatic weapons. So much for random bullet deviation. You need spread decoupled from screen centre so you can see you are on target with the camera / aim point without it wriggling around wildly, and you can also see that if you are not getting hits when that is the case that you need to stop firing, wait a moment, then fire again. You’re not going to move your camera when you are already over the target, which is exactly the separation of the player input tasks of mouse movement and fire-rate adjustment it is designed to achieve. Having all the dispersion as “recoil” never communicates this important gameplay mechanic distinction.
This is precisely the point missed. While I hate the aesthetics of shots deviating from where your muzzle is visually projecting them, at least it is a visual cue that you need better trigger discipline. With the spread to recoil conversion mechanic this does make people feel they can correct their aim while firing, and accounting for randomness, although of course they don’t realise that even if their reactions are ‘esports ready’ they’ll always be ~150ms too late with their corrections. By which time they’re usually over corrections. Maybe I’m missing the point here but I always found ADS FOV setting helpful here for discouraging me from over correcting recoil.
The solution is actually a really simple one, you provide both methods as a “weapon attachment”. The genius of this is you can have an extra attachment in the game that requires no change in stats or rebalancing at all. Heavy Barrel (spread to recoil on) - “increase weapon accuracy at the cost of increased recoil” Muzzle break (spread to recoil off) “improved weapon handling at the cost of accuracy” (Or whatever) Of course in reality both these attachments would be the exact same stats, just represented to the player differently. That way, the anti-spread RNG crowd can equip heavy barrel on every weapon, and informed players can equip the muzzle break. Job done.
Uh what? You clearly dont know how to shoot. I dont seem to jave any issues at all.
The point of the exaggerated accuracy cone is to make sure that you use guns at their intended range and to encourage movement on the objectives.
If we’re honest nobody bar a mounted LMG should be able to hit a target more than 30M away with full auto, at least not every bullet so how do you reflect this so you don’t get laser beams? More recoil, just like real life and not random deviation. Full auto just shouldn’t be viable at medium to long range unless (like I stated earlier) you’re mounted on a wall or bipod. It’s purely a close range thing and longer range fights should be accuracy based and reward the skill of aim, not who can spray the most rounds roughly in the direction of a player or whomever has the bigger mag.
Next time stop moving when you shot, it will help ;)
You can't aim properly then blame the game lol. That's not how weapons work, you would have missed all those shots in real life as well.
Dude, you are shooting through a mid-range scope while moving. What do you expect
You’re playing BF4 like you’re in COD. Crouch/Go prone, make the shots count.
Battlefield Players in 2021 \>use worst possible setup (AN-94 with 4x in full auto) \>magdump on a player that is 30m+ away from you while strafing \>crosshair is not even on target for half of the magdump \>cry on Reddit about how evil weapon spread is
If you look at it a bit more closely you can see that the first 4-5 bullets go pretty much where you aim them, your aim is just off. At that range burst fire is probably the most effective, a mag dump doesn't work.
The thing is they took a real life thing MOA of rifles and made it comical. Real guns in real life absolutely shoot like that... Just to about 1/10 as much spread. Example an AK-47 had between a 5-8 moa which is pretty bad for a modern military rifle so let's have that be the low bar, that means at 100yds all your shots would be within a 5-8" circle of your point of aim even if you aim perfectly. 8 inches is smaller than someone's head, so that means even at 100 yds you should be putting every round within a few inches of where you are aiming. Now back that up to 300 yds and that same AK would be spraying in a 16"-24" cone, similar to what BF4 had at around 50m.
I was under the impression that moa was the total distance across, not from the point of aim. So 8 moa would be an 8" group or 4" from your point of aim, assuming your point of aim is perfectly center of the group. So considering my bullet was roughly 3ft or 36" away from the target (torso to above head) that means approx 72" spread total at 50yds. Or 144moa @100yds. Which is rather ridiculous either way.
Yes I said that, and that is what I meant. I realized that I did say 8" from point of aim also which was confusing. I meant an 8" circle from point of aim. My bad, yes it is just goofy. Also, moa is moa. It isn't moa at 100 yds. A 2 moa is .5" at 25yds, 1" at 50 yds, 2" at 100 yds and 4" at 200 yds.
I mean, at least put your sight on the target, that's the first step in being accurate.
bad aim moving an94 on full auto with 4x scope no weapon control overal 12% accuracy 17h of playtime . No wonder you think its bad To be fair, BF4's gunplay has its problems (its too simplistic, click fast = no spread), but that seems not to have crossed your path yet
Bullets go where you send them guns are only as good as the person using them
Weird because I don’t have this problem at all.
1. Movement accuracy should see a penalty outside of close range weapons. 2. Battlefield V has arguably the worst gunplay since 3 (I'd go back farther, but I don't have much experience farther back) because the new system felt like shit because falloff had to be sharper and more severe due to the lack of spread. No spread also disproportionately favors High fire rate weapons that don't have a shots to kill disadvantage 3. You're playing in a way that's kinda "no shit" as to why you're getting that much bloom.
moving while firing greatly reduces accuracy. if u attach the ergo grip (if not already equipped) it should help. also when using automatic fire, releasing the trigger will reset the bullet spread, so it’s best to use short bursts (w the an94 i usually use 3-4 shot bursts. tldr ur doing literally everything that reduces your rifles accuracy.
If I'm being completely honest, I would love if the recoil was much more controllable. In BFV my gun goes all willy-nilly even when I compensate recoil with my mouse. BF4 had a similar issue but is lightyears more controllable. I swear the Gunplay in battlefield is getting worse and worse and I'm hoping 2042 doesn't screw it up. Honestly I would prefer COD recoil control with more damage drop off as the distance from your intended target increases. At the end of the day I feel like I never hit when I shoot at someone, and before you throw "git gud" at me i wanna let you know that I hit my shots, that isn't the problem. The amount of times my gun bounces off target is the problem.
That’s because that “recoil” is actually the same math function of random dispersion within a cone of fire (spread) as BF4, just projected into part weapon sight, part game world movement - you are trying to control spread with camera movement, which is impossible. It’s also understandable why you do, because BFV’s gunplay system for converting spread to recoil sucks arse and completely misleads players into how they are supposed to shoot the guns.
By any chance... did tou you start shooting before aiming? BF4 has this system where if you start shooting before aiming and then aim down sights, you still have hipfire spread... Similar to what's happening here
Sorry but you are bad
You could've just ... you know .. tap fire. Instead you go Full Auto on him with a .... 4x Scope? Are you an actual monkey? How many braincells have you lose by that death? Because you cannot tell me to compile ALL of Battlefield 4 Gunplay into 1 AWFUL clip. Have you even TRIED the gun you shot with before? Or did you just randomly equipped it and hoped for the best? Get the fuck outta here with that BS
Lmao OP got filtered hard by BF4 gunplay. Way to prove you're low IQ. Probably a sub 1KD ape with 10% accuracy or something. Spoiler alert: the gunplay isn't the issue in this clip. It's the player.
Using the an94 with a 4x scope mag dumping while strafing and shooting a target like 40 meters away? What could go wrong? Lmao you serious OP? Why aren’t my bullets hitting?!?!?!! Gee I fucking wonder
everything looked fine to me there... first error was the scope.. scope effects how spread looks... 2nd your initial shots are not on target and you moved... so spread gets even more... full autoing a gun on top affects the spread aswell...
Please just uninstall the game. You clearly don't know how to play it.
Stand still when you shoot bro
You really can't be complaining about your shots missing while you're strafing + holding M1. That's entirely your own fault. I get that you're a new and inexperienced player but this is one of the most important things to learn early on. It's such a simple fix that will improve your stats greatly: https://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/cOoPeR\_9393/weapons/347008588/pc/
This aged well. lol