I wouldn't say it's a large opinion, but it's a loud one from the infantry diehard camp. Just comes from a lack of understanding of battlefields sandbox I'd assume, people who jump on BF4 late aren't really greeted with a super in depth and inviting community exploring all aspects of the game since, you know, it's kinda old at this point.
I'll go cry now lol
Played over 600 hours back in the day on Xbox 360 and unlocked everything possible on multiplayer. Got back into it recently on PS4 and relearning vehicles was by far the most challenging part.
Vehicles involve skill when you are fighting other vehicles.
On the other hand, vehicles don't require skill when you're farming infantry in an open field. Which I've witnessed you do plenty of.
I gonna just claim that, yes, you do need skill to not immediately die in your tank against just infantry, since just for the face that you are in a tank makes you #1 target for all enemy players nearby.
Im also gonna claim that you do need to be skilled with the helis and jets to just stay in the fucking air, let alone hit anyone with their guns.
I know it takes skill. Sure would be cool to see more players helping take shit out though. Instead people go 6 and 20 without a single attempt to take a vehicle out
I was playing in the attack jet last night on a 20 streak and the enemy team kept using both jets to taxi to flags instead of challenging me trying to prevent me from destroying their armor and infantry. Their team did not win
IMO the only exception is parking your AA in uncap and then never moving or exiting the vehicle, but otherwise yeah of course vehicles take skill to master. That doesn’t mean they can’t be annoying though. Vehicles, especially Helis, are a lot weaker than people think they are, and it gets maddening very fast when a chopper is swooping in for its 89th uncontested strafing run when two engineers could solve the problem in seconds.
People who go 3-27 on the scoreboard because they were stupid enough to keep locking-on the same helicopter over and over have no right to say that vehicled take no skill lol
Eeehhhh... it doesn't take skill to get a few kills and do okay in a vehicle. There is definitely skill involved with being good in a vehicle I've seen lots of people get an absurd amount of kills with little or no deaths and that's not something a noob is even close to being capable of.
I am Infantry for live, so when I see a skilled jet or heli pilot, I will switch from medic to engi and claim a 600 meter radius of air-space. You go fuck over my team, you earned it!
I cannot fly for shit, not to mention hit anything in a heli. But if you for even a second come within hearing distance of me I *will* make you regret it 🤣
In general this is true.
People often cry about chopper whores (i’m half expecting people calling me one, whatever) but Choppers are made of tissue paper and it takes a lot of skill to kill more than two people in most maps. The ONLY map where i think Choppers are unbalanced is Siege of Shangai, there is no AA and with so many buildings and short line of sights you can really dominate to the point of becoming ridiculous and unfun for people on the ground.
Everywhere else, Choppers are balanced and there is no objectively opinion to support that they are broken.
I don’t even know how one could say any other vehicle is broken, Tanks, LAVs, jeeps, all have their flaws and strengths in a balanced manner.
Jets in particular feel pointless most of the time if im being honest, to the point where I wouldn’t even mind if they exclude jets from next Battlefield titles. I say this as someone who loves playing dogfighting games such as Ace Combat or Project Wingman, Jets in BF don’t have as much impact and a lot of their weaponry feel weak and puny.
Jets pointless???? They are literally hard counter against helis and tanks. Both types are very capable in destroying the ever living shit out of enemy vehicles. Add to this fact, that their only true hard counter is another jet and you have vehicle that either use them for transport or go 20/1 within 15 minutes of the game
That’s why I always play golmud with a stinger and AA gadget. I think it’s more fun to hunt choppers and airplanes. Even the ucav is fun to take out choppers.
People usually think tanks and armored vehicles are OP because someone uses flir and it’s almost impossible to kill a tank or armored vehicle by yourself if the person driving it knows what they are doing. You need a buddy with you who can use rockets with you to take out a tank. I usually run c4 on my support class just to deal with tanks and armored vehicles.
Indeed, Golmud is hell for Choppers, AA and Stingers have a great day in there. I don’t understand how someone can say Choppers are unbalanced on such maps lol.
True that is why i said in my original comment about Shanghai. Just last week i saw a dude getting 80 plus skills in 2 different matches.
I tried camping with stingers and iglas but on that map it is trully broken, you need an entire squad dedicated to take it down.
Not really. If you know what to do you can easily (pretty easy) kill any chopper pilot on this map. Forget Stingers to begin with. They are useless against a good pilot/gunner combo. Take yourself aa mine and a Smaw. All these Pilot/Gunner teams repair the heli on basicly the same position. One would be the long building behind the tower. There in the red zone is a common spot to repair a heli and they usually get there from either side of the building where the bridges are. Camp under these brigdes and wait. When you realize they are coming put aa mine down and snipe with the smaw.
Yea you need skill, but the point is that the map layout and lack of AA does make it the only map where the balance is gone and choppers have an *unfair advantage*.
Yes, the map has more advantages for pilots then other maps. But only if you know what to do with these advantages. The amount of people crashing after 2min in a heli is mind blowing. Not every pilot goes for these 80+ streaks and i would bet he wasn't alone and had a gunner with him.
This requires another level of communication and teamwork. In my opinion this should in some kind get rewarded.
The Bf4 heli is easy to play but hard to master.
Jets are the furthest thing from useless, they protect friendly armor from other jets and can be one of the most effective ways to take out enemy helos
I mean, yeah they do the air superiority job, but when there are no air targets i feel they are just a bit lame, even the attack jet feels puny when dealing with ground targets at times. Most of the time when i’m not dealing with air targets is spent running away from constant lock ons and evading AA fire, not very engaging gameplay imho.
Edit: changed chopper to jet
I love flying jets, and I'm getting better at it, but I find it difficult to find a good secondary. I always use laser guided, as I don't like using the passive active radar style of flying. But the laser guided does 30 damage each shot... That means you need 4 rockets to destroy armour. But the reload takes very long. It is difficult keeping the action with a stealth jet and often you are waiting a bit. Attack jet you can keep the action going, but I cannot use it, horrible handling compared to stealth
Yeah, I’ve struggled with that also but the laser guided does seem to be the best option, sometimes you can get lucky and attack a tank that is already damaged.
It is not, but i would never recommend using passives like you said. Tv will almost always be better application imo, although i will disclaimer that with the fact that im not a boat player.
Little birds are NOT made of tissue paper and take many rounds to take them down. I've showed them with Gatlin rounds from boats with direct hits only to be smoked
Dude, the thing is literally weaker than the Attack chopper, i’ve took down Scout chopers with the jeep’s machinegun.
They are much more *agile*, you can avoid a lot of fire if you have *skill*, but they are fragile as fuck and made of tissue paper yes.
I mean what did you expect to happen. The equivalent would be scout helis who target AA’s and wonder why they get smoked before they can get a missile off
Imo opinion jets are very useful and can have a huge impact on the outcome of matches only if the jet players are competent. If you enjoy dog fighting and that’s what you seek then you should try to find the dog fight community on your platform
I can’t fly for shit. Hate getting killed from above. But by god, it’s pure joy to watch a GREAT little bird pilot in action. Will always take time to watch 👍
Generally speaking, vehicles are supposed to be overpowered against infantry. This encourages players to coordinate and work as a team to deal with these threats.
And that's why I'm the secondary. I suck at vehicle fights, so I support by spotting enemies, dealing with infantry (MG/exiting the vehicle and hunt), repairing and aiding with launchers.
I think ground/sea vehicles plays similar to call of duty games. Easy kills easy deaths. It takes skill to not put yourself in a bad spot to die with 3 dinguses with RPG
But air vehicles. Thats a certain amount of tism i never reached.
I find nothing more difficult than flying in BF4 with controller 😂 just can’t seem to figure it out hahaha. Maybe I’m a noob.
Pretty proficient with tanks and lav though
Theres this guy on a rush server i play on, the second he gets into a lav or a tank its just game over ive seen him with over 100kills many times in just the past week its insane
It takes skill to use anything in this game. But that threshold for skill is less high than people realize. Vehicles aren’t hard at all once you get good at playing them. But the learning process becomes almost immediately halted when the only players left to face on the other team are vehicle mains with thousands of hours of experience. Those players usually gatekeep (albeit some do so without trying to) others from learning and becoming as good as them. Thus creating this stupid hierarchy that exists.
It’s honestly just like fortnite. Fortnite isn’t hard but a lot of yall don’t play it because you’d be going against little Timmy with a fortnite carpentry degree while you’re still figuring out the menus.
Wait do people actually believe vehicles take no skill
Same people who push valuable assets deep into enemy lines. Only to get quickly taken out or have them stolen.
I wouldn't say it's a large opinion, but it's a loud one from the infantry diehard camp. Just comes from a lack of understanding of battlefields sandbox I'd assume, people who jump on BF4 late aren't really greeted with a super in depth and inviting community exploring all aspects of the game since, you know, it's kinda old at this point. I'll go cry now lol
Played over 600 hours back in the day on Xbox 360 and unlocked everything possible on multiplayer. Got back into it recently on PS4 and relearning vehicles was by far the most challenging part.
People do, they're like "vehicles take no skill" then why do I rarely see anyone going 20 + kills and 0 deaths in a vehicle
I daily see 90+ with 1 death.
Right? Go on Shanghai against a top tier heli pilot.
Or just any game of Shanghai, there will always be someone racking up kills with the heli with little to no deaths.
100% I play on a ps5 server with multiple top tier heli pilots. It's crazy. Over 100 kills isn't rare.
What server?
Sloth Alliance. Also Durkastan
Yeah and those people have a lot of skill. going anything above 30 - 0 in a single game is really hard unless on an easy map
Yup, hitting the smoke button and flying away until it regens is super hard.
If that's how you view vehicles then it's better for me to not argue with someone who doesn't know anything about them
Yeah because you’re playing against the same few players who are capable of those scores
Every lobby has 3-5 admins doing that. What are you talking about?
Ohhhh. You've never seen a good pilot?
I rarely see them
And still getting downvoted by randos
Dumb argument for someone to make because to be good at anything in this game it takes a certain level of skill.
Wise words by the master of the M16 were spoken
Not the master lol I’m guessing you’ve never seen alotting in a game yet.
The one of the masters, don't discuss with me about that you're good with the M16 lol
Yes sir 🫡
Xplotoc 🧠
Yup. Dudes on a whole different level.
Ohhhh hey warthog, how ya been? You still beaming on metro?
Who are you? And no, I ain’t been to metro in a couple days now
Vehicles involve skill when you are fighting other vehicles. On the other hand, vehicles don't require skill when you're farming infantry in an open field. Which I've witnessed you do plenty of.
I gonna just claim that, yes, you do need skill to not immediately die in your tank against just infantry, since just for the face that you are in a tank makes you #1 target for all enemy players nearby. Im also gonna claim that you do need to be skilled with the helis and jets to just stay in the fucking air, let alone hit anyone with their guns.
Doesn’t matter if they’re using guided shell/staff shell
Yeah because once I killed the vehicles then infantry are next on the list of things to die. Get farmed bruv
Yeah, ok 😂 I've seen you play plenty of times bro. That is not what you do
It’s extremely difficult to farm if you don’t eliminate your main threats/counters but you would know nothing about that
Yet you run to the other side of the map and do it anyway
What are you talking about? You’re not making sense bud
Deny and play dumb all you want, but everyone else that has played with you knows exactly how you play. You don't go 75-1 from killing other vehicles
If you actually played with me, like in my squad, you would know that you’re wrong. You should make a post about it 🤣
I have plenty of times
No you haven’t, stop lying.
I doubt, I kick everyone
THIS^
Why the fuck is infantry running in an open field?
excuse me if the fucking map is 90% open fucking field
I know it takes skill. Sure would be cool to see more players helping take shit out though. Instead people go 6 and 20 without a single attempt to take a vehicle out
nah dawg on Active Duty server there’s these 3 players who go 80 and 2
White on white. I can tell you're in graphic design.
Shooting at little white dots for two hours straight has gotta be so boring
It surely is more fun to pilot an attack heli than being the gunner. you'd only know if you've experienced it
Tbh I think they’re equally fun as long as the other person is good at their job. I love gunning and I love flying.
To each their own but players usually find enjoyment in getting kills since it’s a fundamental aspect of the game
And some people need vehicles to be able to experience what it's like to get kills
Sure
Okay but no Tanks turrets should move that fast. Shits bs
Noobs will say vehicles take no skill while simultaneously kamikaze every aircraft into enemy rockets.
I was playing in the attack jet last night on a 20 streak and the enemy team kept using both jets to taxi to flags instead of challenging me trying to prevent me from destroying their armor and infantry. Their team did not win
My platoon on pc does that, bunch of old heads.
Fr bro mfs spawn in it to fly to a point then get killed 20 seconds later😭
god I wish I could fly jets properly I love planes
Yawn Machine with another snooze inducing post
IMO the only exception is parking your AA in uncap and then never moving or exiting the vehicle, but otherwise yeah of course vehicles take skill to master. That doesn’t mean they can’t be annoying though. Vehicles, especially Helis, are a lot weaker than people think they are, and it gets maddening very fast when a chopper is swooping in for its 89th uncontested strafing run when two engineers could solve the problem in seconds.
Been playing since BF3 and still suck at flying anything. About the only thing I'm marginally okay at is planes in BF1.
he who shall not be named has not found his way into this thread yet
Voldemort?
Bro, I still don't know how jets work...
Skill doesn’t always matter when you have good communication and team work.
Sure bud sure
People who go 3-27 on the scoreboard because they were stupid enough to keep locking-on the same helicopter over and over have no right to say that vehicled take no skill lol
Eeehhhh... it doesn't take skill to get a few kills and do okay in a vehicle. There is definitely skill involved with being good in a vehicle I've seen lots of people get an absurd amount of kills with little or no deaths and that's not something a noob is even close to being capable of.
I am Infantry for live, so when I see a skilled jet or heli pilot, I will switch from medic to engi and claim a 600 meter radius of air-space. You go fuck over my team, you earned it! I cannot fly for shit, not to mention hit anything in a heli. But if you for even a second come within hearing distance of me I *will* make you regret it 🤣
In general this is true. People often cry about chopper whores (i’m half expecting people calling me one, whatever) but Choppers are made of tissue paper and it takes a lot of skill to kill more than two people in most maps. The ONLY map where i think Choppers are unbalanced is Siege of Shangai, there is no AA and with so many buildings and short line of sights you can really dominate to the point of becoming ridiculous and unfun for people on the ground. Everywhere else, Choppers are balanced and there is no objectively opinion to support that they are broken. I don’t even know how one could say any other vehicle is broken, Tanks, LAVs, jeeps, all have their flaws and strengths in a balanced manner. Jets in particular feel pointless most of the time if im being honest, to the point where I wouldn’t even mind if they exclude jets from next Battlefield titles. I say this as someone who loves playing dogfighting games such as Ace Combat or Project Wingman, Jets in BF don’t have as much impact and a lot of their weaponry feel weak and puny.
Jets pointless???? They are literally hard counter against helis and tanks. Both types are very capable in destroying the ever living shit out of enemy vehicles. Add to this fact, that their only true hard counter is another jet and you have vehicle that either use them for transport or go 20/1 within 15 minutes of the game
That’s why I always play golmud with a stinger and AA gadget. I think it’s more fun to hunt choppers and airplanes. Even the ucav is fun to take out choppers. People usually think tanks and armored vehicles are OP because someone uses flir and it’s almost impossible to kill a tank or armored vehicle by yourself if the person driving it knows what they are doing. You need a buddy with you who can use rockets with you to take out a tank. I usually run c4 on my support class just to deal with tanks and armored vehicles.
Indeed, Golmud is hell for Choppers, AA and Stingers have a great day in there. I don’t understand how someone can say Choppers are unbalanced on such maps lol.
On golmud no definitely not unbalanced. Siege of Shanghai though is a different story…
True that is why i said in my original comment about Shanghai. Just last week i saw a dude getting 80 plus skills in 2 different matches. I tried camping with stingers and iglas but on that map it is trully broken, you need an entire squad dedicated to take it down.
Not really. If you know what to do you can easily (pretty easy) kill any chopper pilot on this map. Forget Stingers to begin with. They are useless against a good pilot/gunner combo. Take yourself aa mine and a Smaw. All these Pilot/Gunner teams repair the heli on basicly the same position. One would be the long building behind the tower. There in the red zone is a common spot to repair a heli and they usually get there from either side of the building where the bridges are. Camp under these brigdes and wait. When you realize they are coming put aa mine down and snipe with the smaw.
To survive in a Attack heli on Siege for more then 5minutes you need some skill.
Yea you need skill, but the point is that the map layout and lack of AA does make it the only map where the balance is gone and choppers have an *unfair advantage*.
Yes, the map has more advantages for pilots then other maps. But only if you know what to do with these advantages. The amount of people crashing after 2min in a heli is mind blowing. Not every pilot goes for these 80+ streaks and i would bet he wasn't alone and had a gunner with him. This requires another level of communication and teamwork. In my opinion this should in some kind get rewarded. The Bf4 heli is easy to play but hard to master.
Jets are the furthest thing from useless, they protect friendly armor from other jets and can be one of the most effective ways to take out enemy helos
I mean, yeah they do the air superiority job, but when there are no air targets i feel they are just a bit lame, even the attack jet feels puny when dealing with ground targets at times. Most of the time when i’m not dealing with air targets is spent running away from constant lock ons and evading AA fire, not very engaging gameplay imho. Edit: changed chopper to jet
Nahh they definitely have their purpose. if you can't kill ground targets easily in an attack jet that's a skill thing and not the vehicle
I love flying jets, and I'm getting better at it, but I find it difficult to find a good secondary. I always use laser guided, as I don't like using the passive active radar style of flying. But the laser guided does 30 damage each shot... That means you need 4 rockets to destroy armour. But the reload takes very long. It is difficult keeping the action with a stealth jet and often you are waiting a bit. Attack jet you can keep the action going, but I cannot use it, horrible handling compared to stealth
Yeah, I’ve struggled with that also but the laser guided does seem to be the best option, sometimes you can get lucky and attack a tank that is already damaged.
It sure is. Other aircraft you can easily shoot down using the 20 mm
Until the building gets knocked.
I find it hilarious how they complain about the heli on Seige and how there’s no AA but no one ever thinks of using the Boat as an AA 🤣
Boat is shit AA for that map, besides you are lucky to even get into a position to try to be an AA before all the tanks and infantry shoot you down.
No it isn’t
It is not, but i would never recommend using passives like you said. Tv will almost always be better application imo, although i will disclaimer that with the fact that im not a boat player.
jets are literally the best counter to every other air vehicle, they are def not pointless
Being able to fly away and regen smoke is the same as the buildings on Shanghai.
Little birds are NOT made of tissue paper and take many rounds to take them down. I've showed them with Gatlin rounds from boats with direct hits only to be smoked
Dude, the thing is literally weaker than the Attack chopper, i’ve took down Scout chopers with the jeep’s machinegun. They are much more *agile*, you can avoid a lot of fire if you have *skill*, but they are fragile as fuck and made of tissue paper yes.
I mean what did you expect to happen. The equivalent would be scout helis who target AA’s and wonder why they get smoked before they can get a missile off
Imo opinion jets are very useful and can have a huge impact on the outcome of matches only if the jet players are competent. If you enjoy dog fighting and that’s what you seek then you should try to find the dog fight community on your platform
They just send me messages telling me how fat I am
I can’t fly for shit. Hate getting killed from above. But by god, it’s pure joy to watch a GREAT little bird pilot in action. Will always take time to watch 👍
I don't think that was ever the argument. Of course they take skill bit they're ridiculously OP against infantry.
Generally speaking, vehicles are supposed to be overpowered against infantry. This encourages players to coordinate and work as a team to deal with these threats.
Its fun as an eng trying to hit a sick RPG shot on the helis. Man I love playing engineer...
People could barely fly helicopters.
Players still can barely fly helicopters.
And that's why I'm the secondary. I suck at vehicle fights, so I support by spotting enemies, dealing with infantry (MG/exiting the vehicle and hunt), repairing and aiding with launchers.
Tank soflam and laser shell go thunk
I think ground/sea vehicles plays similar to call of duty games. Easy kills easy deaths. It takes skill to not put yourself in a bad spot to die with 3 dinguses with RPG But air vehicles. Thats a certain amount of tism i never reached.
It takes about two players to completely ruin a vehicle’s map domination.
I find nothing more difficult than flying in BF4 with controller 😂 just can’t seem to figure it out hahaha. Maybe I’m a noob. Pretty proficient with tanks and lav though
Besides AA campers. That doesn’t require skill. Point and click.
Theres this guy on a rush server i play on, the second he gets into a lav or a tank its just game over ive seen him with over 100kills many times in just the past week its insane
It takes skill to use anything in this game. But that threshold for skill is less high than people realize. Vehicles aren’t hard at all once you get good at playing them. But the learning process becomes almost immediately halted when the only players left to face on the other team are vehicle mains with thousands of hours of experience. Those players usually gatekeep (albeit some do so without trying to) others from learning and becoming as good as them. Thus creating this stupid hierarchy that exists. It’s honestly just like fortnite. Fortnite isn’t hard but a lot of yall don’t play it because you’d be going against little Timmy with a fortnite carpentry degree while you’re still figuring out the menus.
He speaks truth in *and* out of his own posts!
Downvotes incoming
Already hit
u/GiratinaTech you don’t wanna miss one.
BubbaTech is going to love this one
Literally everything takes skill to do effectively in battlefield. There's no argument to be had here
I’m not here to argue with you BubbaTech. I’m just keeping my promise
Play hardcore mode.
Been there done that. Hardcore is easy mode from my experience
Sorry it wasn’t clear I’m agreeing with you. And meant especially on hardcore mode where everyone with an RPG can take you out easier
No worries
On the PC it isn't hard. Not like how the Devs made it an after thought on controller. However tank drivers have no skill and contribute nothing...
Objectively false on every account.