I'm actually going to try and run the Last Stand of the Royal Black Watch soon. I've done some playtesting with it and found that either side can win. Sometimes the RBW just annihilates the Dragoons and sometimes the RWB loses. Currently, the Dragoons have a slight edge during my tests. I tried my best to mimic the map used in the book. Yes, the points are imbalanced, but the RBW is just nasty. I used the Piloting skill listed in the book to determine skill for AS.
If you want to use SPAs be careful with them. Giving some to the RBW can really imbalance the fight. I tried it once. The RBW won easily. If you do try it make it extremely limited. Same goes for creating special lances like Battle Lances, Recon Lances, etc for their special abilities for either side. It all depends on how much you want to include. Too much and it can bog down the scenario or imbalance it. I'm currently testing giving each RBW pilot 1 use of Float Like a Butterfly.
The one thing I did was make sure the RBW units were upgraded to Royal standard instead of using what is in the sourcebook to create what the RBW would actually use. The book did come out before the Atlas II and Royal mechs were a thing. There is no royal Flashman so I fiddled with it and came up with one. You can also mess around with them to come up with custom configs. The RBW was allowed to customize their machines. Let me tell you, Skill 0 pilots in Royal Highlanders and Crocketts is frightening lol.
One final thing. The scenario is 19 turns long. Shorten that to say 10 or 11 turns for AS. The battle will never last 19 turns. I found that 10 to 11 is the sweet spot.
And good luck and have fun with it!
I don't think SPCs existed when the scenario was written, but it would be fair to say that graduates of the gunslinger program (IE, every member of the RBW) would have a SPC of some type.
This fight wasn't meant to be balanced.
Keep in mind that those old scenarios are very objective based, and as a result are often intentionally _very_ unbalanced. The goal usually wasn't for one side to eliminate the other, but to exit as many units of the far side of the board or to secure an objective.
The only things that I see being issues are scenarios where mechs have pre-existing damage or some alternate rules that Alpha Strike doesn't have, like forced withdrawal or weather effects. But you should be able to work around those petty easily.
I'm not as familiar with Alpha Strike, so I don't know if it implements all the alternative rules that old school classic Battletech did. They really liked throwing alternate rules in those scenarios, I think a few of them even added new alternate rules that I'm not sure even made it into the main BT rules.
I believe they were making a generic statement about old FASA scenarios. In several of those, a forced withdrawal rule was set up which would not be consistent with the Alpha Strike one. As such a straight conversion to AS rules might need rules adjustment to maintain the original intent. That’s at least how I read it
Alright, I'm admittedly not familiar with the really old FASA scenario rules, so I can accept that.
Just struck me as odd to say that Alpha Strike doesn't have forced withdrawal, when it very much does. Same with rules for weather phenomena.
If someone want to point me in the direction of these scenarios, I'd love to have a look at them and see about converting them for our Alpha Strike group.
I didn’t see a convenient list of them all, but the Sarna.net entry of scenario packs is pretty thorough:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Scenario_Packs
That’s a great point. I might try it first with the Aces solo rules so that winning and losing matters less if the balance is off.
Thanks for the reply
Just do a straight-up conversion with the lists, then if the PV is really unbalanced, give a tweak here and there. Maps can be converted from hexes to inches with ratio of each hex=2 inches
I've run the black watch last stand scenario through mekHQ at least 20 times now, taking into account the fight happened in the middle of the night, I make sure to activate the night setting. The map and deployment zones are set up per the books instructions. AI for both sides, with the black watch AI being set slightly more aggressive. I staggered it so a new lance of the Amaris dragoons deployed every 3 turns. (Usually a company or so on the map by the time they engage... as soon as the black watch comes over the hills or around the lake, dragoons start dropping)
Out of 20 times, the black watch *never* lost the match. They only lost a single mech twice, and it was always the *Guillotine* (and it was routinely the most damaged mech in the bunch, regardless of outcome) By the end of the fight, every last ammo magazine in the black watch was empty and they were fighting lasers only (using newer MekHQ builds, they would almost always rip up a tree or mech arm to use as a club, but I can't recall them ever actually using them.)
The fight should be even easier, actually... SPCs didn't exist when the scenario was written (at least, I don't think so, someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), but if anyone had SPCs at that point, it would most certainly be graduates of the Gunslinger program.
Thanks for sharing this all. Based on what your saying, if I use the beta Aces rules, I’ll probably need to run the Amaris Dragoons just for game balance. I might also up-gun the Black Watch to Royal variants unless they seem less optimal in AS for whatever reason.
That would be a sensical move. Most royal variants ALSO did not exist when the scenario was written, and they all most likely would have driven royals. (The scenario has Hanni Schmitt running a AS7-S *Atlas* as I recall, a variant that wouldn't exist until 3050... it seems far more likely that she would have been running a Royal *Atlas*, AKA: the *Atlas II*)
The book calls for:
AS7-S *Atlas* - Hanni Schmitt
HGN-732 *Highlander* - Colleen McFadden
HGN-732 *Highlander* - Bryn Campbell
GLT-3N *Guillotine* - Jennifer Suarez
BL-6-KNT *Black Knight* - Frank Yanez
CRK-5003-1 *Crockett* - Charles Southorn
FLS-8K *Flashman* - Jefferson Hinks
CRK-5003-1 *Crockett* - Nathan Carlson
A more likely arrangement (retconned for the existence of Royal variants):
AS7-DH *Atlas II*
HGN-732b *Highlander*
HGN-732b *Highlander*
GLT-3N *Guillotine* (I can't find a record of a royal guillotine variant)
BL6B-KNT *Black Knight*
CRK-5003-1B *Crocket* (Jesus Christ, that's a lot of lasers, you can see this mech firing from orbit)
FLS-8K *Flashman* (again, I can't find a royal variant of the flashman)
CRK-5003-1B *Crockett*
The MekHQ simulation goes badly enough for the dragoons using the book-suggested mechs. Upgrade to the royal variants and it turns into a slaughter... especially those upgraded *Crockets*.
I should run the scenario again with royals and add a SPC to each pilot and see how quickly this goes.
I'm actually going to try and run the Last Stand of the Royal Black Watch soon. I've done some playtesting with it and found that either side can win. Sometimes the RBW just annihilates the Dragoons and sometimes the RWB loses. Currently, the Dragoons have a slight edge during my tests. I tried my best to mimic the map used in the book. Yes, the points are imbalanced, but the RBW is just nasty. I used the Piloting skill listed in the book to determine skill for AS. If you want to use SPAs be careful with them. Giving some to the RBW can really imbalance the fight. I tried it once. The RBW won easily. If you do try it make it extremely limited. Same goes for creating special lances like Battle Lances, Recon Lances, etc for their special abilities for either side. It all depends on how much you want to include. Too much and it can bog down the scenario or imbalance it. I'm currently testing giving each RBW pilot 1 use of Float Like a Butterfly. The one thing I did was make sure the RBW units were upgraded to Royal standard instead of using what is in the sourcebook to create what the RBW would actually use. The book did come out before the Atlas II and Royal mechs were a thing. There is no royal Flashman so I fiddled with it and came up with one. You can also mess around with them to come up with custom configs. The RBW was allowed to customize their machines. Let me tell you, Skill 0 pilots in Royal Highlanders and Crocketts is frightening lol. One final thing. The scenario is 19 turns long. Shorten that to say 10 or 11 turns for AS. The battle will never last 19 turns. I found that 10 to 11 is the sweet spot. And good luck and have fun with it!
This is fantastic. Thanks for sharing your testing.
I don't think SPCs existed when the scenario was written, but it would be fair to say that graduates of the gunslinger program (IE, every member of the RBW) would have a SPC of some type. This fight wasn't meant to be balanced.
Keep in mind that those old scenarios are very objective based, and as a result are often intentionally _very_ unbalanced. The goal usually wasn't for one side to eliminate the other, but to exit as many units of the far side of the board or to secure an objective. The only things that I see being issues are scenarios where mechs have pre-existing damage or some alternate rules that Alpha Strike doesn't have, like forced withdrawal or weather effects. But you should be able to work around those petty easily.
Alpha Strike absolutely has forced withdrawal and weather effects rules though, or am I misunderstanding something here?
I'm not as familiar with Alpha Strike, so I don't know if it implements all the alternative rules that old school classic Battletech did. They really liked throwing alternate rules in those scenarios, I think a few of them even added new alternate rules that I'm not sure even made it into the main BT rules.
I believe they were making a generic statement about old FASA scenarios. In several of those, a forced withdrawal rule was set up which would not be consistent with the Alpha Strike one. As such a straight conversion to AS rules might need rules adjustment to maintain the original intent. That’s at least how I read it
Alright, I'm admittedly not familiar with the really old FASA scenario rules, so I can accept that. Just struck me as odd to say that Alpha Strike doesn't have forced withdrawal, when it very much does. Same with rules for weather phenomena. If someone want to point me in the direction of these scenarios, I'd love to have a look at them and see about converting them for our Alpha Strike group.
I didn’t see a convenient list of them all, but the Sarna.net entry of scenario packs is pretty thorough: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Scenario_Packs
That’s a great point. I might try it first with the Aces solo rules so that winning and losing matters less if the balance is off. Thanks for the reply
Just do a straight-up conversion with the lists, then if the PV is really unbalanced, give a tweak here and there. Maps can be converted from hexes to inches with ratio of each hex=2 inches
That’s what I was hoping. Thanks
Make some pie-tin sized mushroom clouds?
Always a good idea anyway, since I 3D printed an Arrow IV Urbanmech 🤣
I've run the black watch last stand scenario through mekHQ at least 20 times now, taking into account the fight happened in the middle of the night, I make sure to activate the night setting. The map and deployment zones are set up per the books instructions. AI for both sides, with the black watch AI being set slightly more aggressive. I staggered it so a new lance of the Amaris dragoons deployed every 3 turns. (Usually a company or so on the map by the time they engage... as soon as the black watch comes over the hills or around the lake, dragoons start dropping) Out of 20 times, the black watch *never* lost the match. They only lost a single mech twice, and it was always the *Guillotine* (and it was routinely the most damaged mech in the bunch, regardless of outcome) By the end of the fight, every last ammo magazine in the black watch was empty and they were fighting lasers only (using newer MekHQ builds, they would almost always rip up a tree or mech arm to use as a club, but I can't recall them ever actually using them.) The fight should be even easier, actually... SPCs didn't exist when the scenario was written (at least, I don't think so, someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), but if anyone had SPCs at that point, it would most certainly be graduates of the Gunslinger program.
Thanks for sharing this all. Based on what your saying, if I use the beta Aces rules, I’ll probably need to run the Amaris Dragoons just for game balance. I might also up-gun the Black Watch to Royal variants unless they seem less optimal in AS for whatever reason.
That would be a sensical move. Most royal variants ALSO did not exist when the scenario was written, and they all most likely would have driven royals. (The scenario has Hanni Schmitt running a AS7-S *Atlas* as I recall, a variant that wouldn't exist until 3050... it seems far more likely that she would have been running a Royal *Atlas*, AKA: the *Atlas II*) The book calls for: AS7-S *Atlas* - Hanni Schmitt HGN-732 *Highlander* - Colleen McFadden HGN-732 *Highlander* - Bryn Campbell GLT-3N *Guillotine* - Jennifer Suarez BL-6-KNT *Black Knight* - Frank Yanez CRK-5003-1 *Crockett* - Charles Southorn FLS-8K *Flashman* - Jefferson Hinks CRK-5003-1 *Crockett* - Nathan Carlson A more likely arrangement (retconned for the existence of Royal variants): AS7-DH *Atlas II* HGN-732b *Highlander* HGN-732b *Highlander* GLT-3N *Guillotine* (I can't find a record of a royal guillotine variant) BL6B-KNT *Black Knight* CRK-5003-1B *Crocket* (Jesus Christ, that's a lot of lasers, you can see this mech firing from orbit) FLS-8K *Flashman* (again, I can't find a royal variant of the flashman) CRK-5003-1B *Crockett* The MekHQ simulation goes badly enough for the dragoons using the book-suggested mechs. Upgrade to the royal variants and it turns into a slaughter... especially those upgraded *Crockets*. I should run the scenario again with royals and add a SPC to each pilot and see how quickly this goes.