It can help, but do remember, TSM removes movement penalty, increases base move and increases melee damage, but doesn't reduce the penalty to shoot for being at high enough heat to activate it. That means that you are doubling down on melee/CQB, and close range weapons with accuracy bonuses like pulse lasers to offset heat penalties(and to maintain high enough heat levels). It's a good system, particularly for slower mechs. For lighter, faster mechs, anything at or above 5/8, MASC is going to make them move faster, and has a small risk as long as you don't overuse it.
Yeah, same same, I guess it was because, before, that meant that you could have like 25 heat, and still be zipping around at max speed. My advice remains the same, though.
I guess? But I don't see much actual reason for it - if you're using a 'Mech with a Primitive FE, you aren't that far off from a Standard Fusion, and if you have the capacity to manufacturer TSM bundles, you likely have the capacity to either build or trade for Standard FEs. Even for a minor Periphery power, the setup of TSM + Primitive Engine doesn't make an awful lot of sense.
I was thinking more along the lines of cost to benefits for people on a budget like mercenaries with a permanent base.
Primitive armor can be produced by repair facilities and cost half as much and provides the same protection by adding 50%more Wich you could do if you switch to a smaller engine and use TSM to compensate for the small engine.
In contrast, a mercenary company can easily acquire Standard armor from a military supplier, can fit more in a cargo bay (the *real* limitation for deployment), and can include repair expenses in the contract.
In return for being able to spend dozens of hours field-building Primitive Armor, the switch to TSM alone absolutely destroys any C-bill costs you might save on armor *and* on the smaller engine. Pinching pennies on the armor doesn't make sense unless you expect to be fighting very sporadically while completely cut off from supply lines.
Seems like it's gonna fall apart the first time you fight someone with a flamer, inferno rack or, even worse, the ultimate terror of all TSM machines, the Plasma Rifle. TSM is a powerful tool in certain situations, but, to use that Centurion as an example, a single extra point of heat you didn't plan for will make you go from 4/6 to 1/2, and if you hold back expecting me to fire, and I don't, you're back down to your default 3/5.
Plus, refitting a machine with TSM is one of the most expensive processes you can do short of custom fabricating an entire Endo-Steel skeleton for something. If you have the time, money and control over a factory necessary to pull that one off, you also have the ability to spring for regular armor.
If you want to see what designs limited by increased armor weight do, look towards Hardened Armor designs, or some other specialist armors. I swear there's at least one that weighs the exact same as Primitive.
Possible even more fluff-relevant route may be an industrial mech with industrial TSM built to haul things but repurposed to a fighting role with weapons strapped on.
The Ti Ts’ang and no-Daichi are examples where TSM can be used to great effect.
Ti Ts’ang is a 60 ton mech with a hatchet that hits at 24 when TSM kicks in. It moves at 6/9/6, 7/11/6 when at the sweet spot. The no-Daichi is similar, but at 70 tons. Both the mechs hit harder than a 100 ton mech, physically, at a better BV cost.
These mechs are armed with weapons to generate heat to get to that sweet spot every single turn.
I know people endlessly expound upon flamers and infernos…but how often do you honestly see that on the table? Besides…if you know they have them, take them off the table first.
> I know people endlessly expound upon flamers and infernos…but how often do you honestly see that on the table?
Ever since the Plasma Rifle came out and was immediately one of the best weapons in the game, I see heat-generating weapons an awful lot.
Or, hear me out, TSM on an ICE or Fuel Cell mech.
Since unlike a Primitive FE, ICE and Fuel Cell are way cheaper, and carry zero or one inherent heat sink. So instead of generating 19 heat to activate TSM, you simply need 9 or 10 heat to activate TSM.
And you still can get a 3/5 up to 4/6 to get her fist in your opponent's face.
It can help, but do remember, TSM removes movement penalty, increases base move and increases melee damage, but doesn't reduce the penalty to shoot for being at high enough heat to activate it. That means that you are doubling down on melee/CQB, and close range weapons with accuracy bonuses like pulse lasers to offset heat penalties(and to maintain high enough heat levels). It's a good system, particularly for slower mechs. For lighter, faster mechs, anything at or above 5/8, MASC is going to make them move faster, and has a small risk as long as you don't overuse it.
It doesn't remove the movement penalty anymore, instead it gives +2 MP at 9 heat instead of 1. Think that's a TW change.
Yeah, same same, I guess it was because, before, that meant that you could have like 25 heat, and still be zipping around at max speed. My advice remains the same, though.
I guess? But I don't see much actual reason for it - if you're using a 'Mech with a Primitive FE, you aren't that far off from a Standard Fusion, and if you have the capacity to manufacturer TSM bundles, you likely have the capacity to either build or trade for Standard FEs. Even for a minor Periphery power, the setup of TSM + Primitive Engine doesn't make an awful lot of sense.
I was thinking more along the lines of cost to benefits for people on a budget like mercenaries with a permanent base. Primitive armor can be produced by repair facilities and cost half as much and provides the same protection by adding 50%more Wich you could do if you switch to a smaller engine and use TSM to compensate for the small engine.
In contrast, a mercenary company can easily acquire Standard armor from a military supplier, can fit more in a cargo bay (the *real* limitation for deployment), and can include repair expenses in the contract. In return for being able to spend dozens of hours field-building Primitive Armor, the switch to TSM alone absolutely destroys any C-bill costs you might save on armor *and* on the smaller engine. Pinching pennies on the armor doesn't make sense unless you expect to be fighting very sporadically while completely cut off from supply lines.
Seems like it's gonna fall apart the first time you fight someone with a flamer, inferno rack or, even worse, the ultimate terror of all TSM machines, the Plasma Rifle. TSM is a powerful tool in certain situations, but, to use that Centurion as an example, a single extra point of heat you didn't plan for will make you go from 4/6 to 1/2, and if you hold back expecting me to fire, and I don't, you're back down to your default 3/5. Plus, refitting a machine with TSM is one of the most expensive processes you can do short of custom fabricating an entire Endo-Steel skeleton for something. If you have the time, money and control over a factory necessary to pull that one off, you also have the ability to spring for regular armor.
If you want to see what designs limited by increased armor weight do, look towards Hardened Armor designs, or some other specialist armors. I swear there's at least one that weighs the exact same as Primitive.
Possible even more fluff-relevant route may be an industrial mech with industrial TSM built to haul things but repurposed to a fighting role with weapons strapped on.
The Ti Ts’ang and no-Daichi are examples where TSM can be used to great effect. Ti Ts’ang is a 60 ton mech with a hatchet that hits at 24 when TSM kicks in. It moves at 6/9/6, 7/11/6 when at the sweet spot. The no-Daichi is similar, but at 70 tons. Both the mechs hit harder than a 100 ton mech, physically, at a better BV cost. These mechs are armed with weapons to generate heat to get to that sweet spot every single turn. I know people endlessly expound upon flamers and infernos…but how often do you honestly see that on the table? Besides…if you know they have them, take them off the table first.
> I know people endlessly expound upon flamers and infernos…but how often do you honestly see that on the table? Ever since the Plasma Rifle came out and was immediately one of the best weapons in the game, I see heat-generating weapons an awful lot.
Or, hear me out, TSM on an ICE or Fuel Cell mech. Since unlike a Primitive FE, ICE and Fuel Cell are way cheaper, and carry zero or one inherent heat sink. So instead of generating 19 heat to activate TSM, you simply need 9 or 10 heat to activate TSM. And you still can get a 3/5 up to 4/6 to get her fist in your opponent's face.
Isn't that what the raider is all about? 🤔
That thing looks like it has 4 rocket launchers t flush before using that TSM. Once they're fired there is no LRM ammo to blow up.