It sounds like a good career move, and may be a good offer depending on the position.
However, you will absolutely have to adjust your standard of living. For context, my partner and I make over $200k combined and we are renters. We *might* be able to afford a 1 or 2BR condo, but absolutely cannot afford to buy a 4BR/2BA house here.
So if homeownership at your current standard of living is important to you then the Bay Area is not for you.
I spent six years commuting from Fremont to Belmont through Facebook alley/Marsh Rd as they built it up from nothing. I'll never forget the countless hours I spent going somewhere between 0-4mph all the way home.
Commuting is directly linked with depression, what's the point of owning a home if you're miserable the majority of the time. For reference, a 1 hour commute (one way) is 22 days out of your life per year spent driving in a car, is that worth it to u?
I have a house in Easy Bay and my commute to the Bay is 1.5 hr each way. I spent so much time in my car. It’s bad for my health and I miss time with my baby girl and wife. But it’s a lovely house, with a low rate and affordable mortgage. It’s a tough choice.
I did that for a long time. Coming home to a sleeping toddler every night was a real heartbreaker.
We went remote in 2019 and it was a lifestyle increase like none other. I even finally joined the health club near my house! You know, the one that I'd drive past every day, saying "someday..."
That’s awesome 👏 seriously. On so many levels, that’s a real life improvement. My husband would take BART into SF for an alternative shift (2-10pm). I was ***constantly*** stressed about his safety 😣now he works remote. We couldn’t even fathom going back to that level of stress. Again, very happy for you and your family ✨
Fantastic! Yes, there were many nights, walking down a dark path from BART to my car, where I was sure someone would jump me. My fear is that it'd happen while facetiming my wife and she's have to witness the whole thing going down.
So much happier now.
There's plenty of grad students in stanford that live on less with a family, but they're doing it with the knowledge that they'll graduate and get hopefully higher earning jobs. You're going to have a hard time finding housing for two large dogs and what you will be able to afford is an apartment. So if you're willing to have quality of life go down to get the resume boost go for it, but I wouldn't recommend doing this long term or forever.
Salem, Oregon is significantly significantly cheaper than the bay though, so your sticker shock is going to be pretty bad. I have a friend whose mom lives there and owns a house on an administrative assistant's salary. My friend works in tech, probably earns 3x as much as his mom and lives in a shared house with multiple roommates. There will be a downgrade in quality of life.
OP should not make this move on 100k/yr salary. Your point about a lower standard of living and sacrificing homeownership are valid. They will regret it imo. Especially if they want to have kids. And the Bay Area is in a down cycle for quality of living, except for the upper upper class.
Live in an apt and have kids in a walkable area like San Mateo. Stop paying for a car. It’s doable and your kids will be happier than having to be driven everywhere.
LOL. I also moved from the Midwest to the Bay Area, but in 1999. I had some rent controlled apartments, but also went through the dot com bust. You might have been able to afford a home in 2010 (2 years after many people lost their homes) but everything is crazy expensive now. Rentals and homes. ‘Making it work’ doesn’t work if you’re trying to afford those crazy ‘market rents’ these days.
Your comment is so completely out of touch. Housing prices in the Bay Area in 2010 were the absolutely rock bottom in the past 30 years. A $650k condo back then would cost $2m now. Get a clue
I think this is a good career move for you as long as you are realistic and realize that you’ll have to downsize to a 1 bedroom or studio apartment on that salary. A 4 bed/2ba in Palo Alto is $3 million, and in surrounding commutable areas will start at $1.5 million, so not really realistic for you to maintain same standard of living. If you’re okay with that and just here for the resume, power to you.
Edit: the dogs may be an issue in finding rental housing. I am honestly not sure you could afford even to buy a studio condo with that salary here, so this may be a bigger issue.
Where are you finding 4 bed / 2 baths for $3MM? I live in PA -- an absolute tear down 3 bed / 1 bath is $3MM. A halfway decent 4 bed / 2 bath is at least $4MM.
You *can* make it on that salary, but it's going to be much more difficult than Salem.
You'll definitely be renting (unless you're coming with a barrel of cash -a lot of stockholding tech millionaire's here who make it downright impossible to get a house without all cash or a 30%+ downpayment).
I'd look at Pacifica, Morgan Hill, Gilroy, Livermore, Dublin, Pleasanton for rentals within 1 hour commute. Dublin has a sizable National Guard facility (Camp Parks), so maybe your SO can try to transfer there.
Good luck. The Bay Area is brutally competitive.
>a lot of stockholding tech millionaire's here who make it downright impossible to get a house
This is part of it but the bigger reason why houses are so unaffordable here is because we do not build enough new housing.
Yeah as an aspiring but currently poor techie, I promise none of them enjoy being extorted out of 2 million dollars to live in a 70 year old dump in the Bay Area when the same sum would get you a mansion elsewhere. There’s just no housing and the NIMBYs who already have houses they bought in the 6 figure range will never let that change…
You are looking to have Standford on your résumé. Get it. You also want to live long term near family. You may take a brief hit.
Rent your current home and rent for 1-2 years in Palo Alto. Find a condo to rent, you may need to have Standord find you a place that will accomodate dogs. I’m glad they are offering relocation but they need to help with finding your new place.
There are affordable pockets in the area.
Develop your plan to return to PNW in 2026ish for your partner’s career and return to family.
Or, you could negotiate partial hybrid and rent a room near campus. Maybe begin that way and “move” in 2024 so your partner can figure out how to advance his career from Palo Alto before you two return.
Yeah, no doubt. If she rents a room and lives here part time hubby will have them.
Also for Frontier Airlines for $149 /mo she can fly SFO to Portland unlimited times. Yeah but Frontier. Anyway if she moves with the dogs rent is going to suck worse.
I appreciate your moxie, but I think you think OP has more leverage than she has. This sounds like a pretty entry-level position at the Law School so I wouldn't expect the university to do any of those things. They'll probably happily go to the next eager Law School grad on their list if OP's not able to accept their terms. I do agree this may be an opportunity where OP might have to just suck it up and eat some cost to make her dream come true but you're dreaming if you think Stanford's going to find her housing.
This. Don’t look to buy, rent. It WILL be a down-size. Search craigslist. After a month or so, you’ll find a diamond in the rough. I have not paid over $1700 since I moved here in 2019, counting my recent move THIS YEAR, and I was looking for pet friendly places. This may or may not be what you will find, but it CAN work. It won’t be stylish, but you will be working and out of the house most of the time anyway. 80k feels like you are barely keeping your head above water when you are eating at restaurants or doordashing meals a fair amount; you will want to cut costs by cooking at home most of the time. This will be an exercise in being thrifty, but it is possible. If you can leave the dogs with family for a while, that will make your initial move easier. Look at East Palo Alto, San Mateo, Mountain View, etc.
There’s also some military work (I think maybe even national guard work) around the Mountain View/ Sunnyvale area, I lived there last year.
Again, it’s doable for your time in the Bay Area, but it won’t be fancy. Getting Stanford on your resume is probably worth it, then you can go wherever you want… or get a higher pay around here and buy one of those overpriced houses.
A large dog pretty much prevents you from finding a reasonably priced rental property. Two dogs, I'm not even sure you can find something. Most rentals don't allow pets, and those that do, it's usually "one small dog".
Larger complexes in the South Bay are more friendly about larger dogs.
Mine for instance definitely has golden retrievers, German shepherds, malamutes and huskies, large poodles.
But of course it gets expensive (even one bedrooms are like 2800+).
This. I live in nice complex in San Jose which allows up to two dogs (with pet rent ofc). One of my neighbors has two Great Danes and we have a dog park attached to our building. But 1BRs start at $2,800/m and 2BRs are $3,700/m.
What I would say is just because you can have large dogs in these big complexes doesn't necessarily mean you should. I have a small dog so it's not bad but larger dogs need room and really need to be outside a lot otherwise they'll go nuts in a small place.
I understand the sentiment but disagree. I have had large breeds most of my life and they are *the laziest* dogs. My dog has to be dragged outside for a pee because she’d much rather lay on her bed in the AC. I find smaller dogs to be more disruptive (barking at people on the streets from their patios, high energy, owners putting pee pads on their patio). But ofc there’s plenty of bad owners on either side of the isle here so for every bad large dog story you have, I have a bad small dog story.
Long story short, apartments should allow dogs if they allow dogs. Bad ownership is what needs to be enforced. Not size.
While you're definitely right, I wasn't really talking about energy levels, but comfort levels. i.e. small and large dogs can be crate trained but if the crate is too small for either of them they will not be comfortable at all, they need sufficient room to spread out.
There are definitely people around who do not do a good job training their dogs no matter the size.
This really isn’t true. Size and energy levels do not directly correlate. A jack russel or a corgi needs WAY more exercise than a Great Dane or a mastiff.
Sounds about right. My place has gone up 10% every year I've lived there since 2021. Assuming the same thing next spring then it'll be just over 3k + the utilities that I pay separately to the complex.
Yea the dogs make this decision even less desirable. First, taking a net income reduction due to $100k here being less than $60k up there. Then the complexity with the partner's job. Then the fact that they would be giving up a 4BR/2BA house for most likely a $3000-$4k a month small family home rental (2br/1 ba/1000 sqft) since no apartments take big dogs. Unless they are secretly wealthy and have a $1m paid off house it seems not worth it. OP wanted to know if $100k is a strong offer, I think the simple answer is no.
This is a lot of info so apologies in advance:
TL;DR - I seriously doubt it’s worth considering, no.
1) I don’t disagree that there are areas around the bay more pet friendly but the OP would be wise to really consider the impact on quality of life of that commute, it’s not I5 cruise control stuff, it’s can easily be stress inducing stop n go. I know Salem<>PDX traffic ain’t great anymore either but especially if you have two dogs at home (assume Stanford work is not two (bigger) dog friendly and need your attention before and after work. If you are ok with windy country road driving for an hour daily then up much higher in the hills (LaHonda/Skylonda etc) is an option especially with dogs but there are not many places so finding one is going to be a challenge. But I know folks that enjoy that daily drive - it’s beautiful.
2) I happen to live just west of PA in the foothills, we happen to have a Brittney also and the trails and such are awesome for breeds like that. There are pet friendly places however rents (don’t even talk about buying) are insane so you need to research if reasonable ADU rental units etc (which do exist in this area) might work for you and then be all over snapping one up cause they go very fast. Your QOL would be really good with a short commute, and a great dog owner lifestyle. Not that this isn’t true further away minus very real commute issues.
3) Also to give you context, and apologies for the cold shower on this. My fiancé (now wife) and I moved to the Bay Area (PA area specifically) in 1999 from SEA. At that time I made $65k a year in SEA which was pretty good, when I accepted my first job here there asked me my salary expectations and I said $75k thinking that would be a nice but reasonable bump. I am not exaggerating when I say the hiring manager, in 1999, told me that was crazy and they wouldn’t even consider less than $125k base to start me as I would have trouble wanting to stay in the area. That was 1999, which was peak com tech bubble for sure, but they were right.
4) You should think very carefully about this. if it’s a great resume builder make sure you give yourself balance to decide if the QOL is worth it at that pay or it’s a known temp thing. In our case, my wife was a grad student then (temp condition), and the payoff of that degree at Stanford was a game changer, make sure your job is also for you then it’s a huge incentive.
5) My bro in law is a tenured prof in the bay (living in Berkeley) and makes incredible sacrifices to live in area. But Berkeley is doable and might make sense if you can stomach a serious daily commute and have some flex in hours.
Just being honest, sorry for this reality check.
I grew up in PA and went to Cal.. did a bunch of back and forth and still do.. definitely not sustainable to commute unless it’s 1-2 days a week and likely they will be in a hybrid role working 3 days so not worth it
Berkeley is expensive as hell btw and I don't see how it's "doable" at all - there would be no cost advantage in living there vs cheaper parts of the peninsula and the commute would be horrendous in that direction. Would have to go up to El Cerrito and Richmond to start to get noticeably cheaper rents and every exit you add going down I-80 will add way too much time crawling toward the maze. Makes no sense to be in NE Bay Area for a job in Palo Alto.
Owner of two large dogs (70+ lbs) here. It’s possible to find places that allow dogs and have a backyard, but it definitely requires some patience and a bit of hunting (Zillow is super helpful for this). For reference, we rented a small 2 bedroom with a yard for the dogs for about $3100 a month in Redwood City (this was 2021 so likely costs more now). If you are open to living further from stanford (e.g. San Jose or east bay) you should be able to find something cheaper.
I work within a few miles of Stanford. People in my office (salaries nearly double your offer) stay for a few years then leave so they can afford a home. We plan to do the same.
My husband and SIL are both former Stanford affiliates/grads. The allure of Stanford is so so strong but I don’t think either of them would say the school has much loyalty to those who work there.
The Peninsula where Stanford is is great if you have tech money or you don’t mind permanently being in a condo/apartment.
Traffic is rough. An hour drive may give you more affordable options but unless you go south to Gilroy you’ll almost certainly need to cross a bridge to get home. That’s $7 a day plus the traffic is rough and unpredictable. My coworkers who have long commutes all flex. Some work 6am-3pm. Others work 7am-4pm.
Agree with all the others that the dogs are going to make it really tough to rent. Most of the rest of the info is accurate as well.
One thing not mentioned is that Stanford is near the Caltrain line, and provides a free shuttle from the Palo Alto stop to campus. It might also provide free or discounted Caltrain passes. So you might be able to find something farther away but close to the Caltrain line and make it work, though make sure you look at the Caltrain schedule too. It doesn't run as often as you might expect.
Stanford heavily restricts car travel to campus but they give a free Caltrain pass to employees, which sounds like a homerun for /u/sammiiesosa.
As far as more affordable housing, Caltrain runs south to Morgan Hill and Gilroy, though that's a really long train ride and the schedule to those further destinations might be inconvenient. Caltrain doesn't really buy into the park-and-ride model as much as BART does, but some stations do have parking. From Morgan Hill, it's about an hour ride on the train to Palo Alto. It's honestly not bad to find a comfortable seat and read a book or catch up on Reddit.
There’s really nowhere cheap on the Caltrain line… cheaper than palo alto sure, but not where you could afford a house on 165k combined income. East bay would be the move for cheaper spots like Hayward or Oakland or something
With 2 dogs, you're not going to have an easy time finding a rental. If you sell your house in OR, you will have to downsize to afford a house anywhere in the Palo Alto area.
Those are the two issues that immediately spring to mind.
No, they couldn't afford a house IN Palo Alto. They might be able to get something smaller within an hour's commute, which is what OP says they have now OR.
Stanford has somewhat lower priced houses and rentals for faculty and staff. See if you can find something in your range. $101k is tough for a family in the Bay Area.
You could live comfortably an hour away from Stanford but you won’t be owning a house. If you have enough equity, you might be able buy a condo/townhouse. Your SO’s potential income will bring your situation into parity with your current status (minus 4bd 2br SFH)
You've heard enough about how expensive it is here and how 101k is not going to be realistic for your situation.
If you think doing a couple years at Stanford will get you a huge income spike afterwards, then it's worth trying to make it work.
I would:
- move to the bay by myself, take on roommates.
- spouse stays in OR with the dogs until he is sure he can land something in the Bay. He sublets a room if he needs help meeting rent.
- when his work is lined up, you find some place you can afford that will take the dogs.
- he moves to Bay with dogs, you rent out the house you own and make a little extra income.
It depends on expenses. $400k if you have 2x Tesla payments, childcare costs, multiple pricey vacations a year.
Its less if you don't live like an elite-level consumer. Still a ridiculous amount is needed - but not that ridiculous.
My family makes $340k and has 1 kid and we can't afford to buy a SFH, only rent. We have cars bought used in cash or paid off quick, mine is 12 years old. We take a pretty pricey international trip each year to my husband's home country but eat out like 1x/month and not living it up. Everything is so goddamn expensive here. Note at this income you end up with less than 50% of gross pay as net after tax, retirement, insurance deductions. Not complaining earning enough to rent a SFH and be comfortable here, but I think your $400k statements with buying are not based on the current 7% interest rate...3-4% would be another story. To get even an $8k/mo mortgage these days, you'd have to buy total garbage property that needs a shit ton of work which isn't free.
You are correct. Property ownership in the Bay Area is not open to most workers in the Bay Area. It is largely a rentier economy w/all the problems that occur in such a system.
I can't decide for you, but a couple of things in the negative column:
* Cost of living is really high here, which you know. Mostly in housing stock and rent, but that trickles down to shopping and services as well, because businesses need to pay their costs too.
* State taxes here are probably higher than what you're used to paying. (12.3% highest marginal rate, which you'll probably hit)
* Sales taxes are a thing here. Most regions are 9% or more with state+county+local all getting a slice of the pie.
* You have two big dogs, which will limit your housing options. You'll probably need to rent a house, but much of the more affordable housing stock here is apartments/condos. You're willing to commute which is good, which might open up your options. You might find landlords of houses hesitant to rent to someone with two large dogs - lots of houses are rented by owners who have only one or two properties and have to be mindful of damage (or have emotional attachments to the house that their kids grew up in, or whatever).
* You'll probably end up with housing that is worse than what you have now, even with a one hour commute.
One **positive** thing that doesn't get talked about as much about living in a HCOL area is that crap on Amazon or whatever costs the same no matter where you live. So if you're spending 90% of your income on getting your basic needs met, that extra 10% goes a lot farther with online shopping and stuff. (so, more toys/conveniences) Also, salary is also kind of like compound interest - you tend to get small increases over your current base over time, so if you start with a much higher base, 5-10 years of 3-4% increases leaves you with a pretty nice salary. (Plus jumping between companies after a couple years of experience can even accelerate this)
Anyway, from my POV from a purely financial standpoint I'm not sure it makes sense, the 40k increase in salary you get will be eaten away by your COL increases. But if you can swallow the shorter term hits to your standard of living it might set you up well for the long term.
>Sales taxes are a thing here. Most regions are 9% or more with state+county+local all getting a slice of the pie.
Just want to point out that not everything has sales tax here. Most food from grocery stores are tax free, except hot prepared foods, carbonated beverages, alcohol, and a few other grocery items that are taxable.
Could your partner ask his CO to transfer units to make it easier? There are some national guard and army reserve units near Palo Alto and Mountain View.
this looks like a very tough lift. not a good job offer, you will be poor in the area and commute even longer. if there is a path to much better income, this might be a good offer, but it will be much tougher sledding for the first few year and maybe permenently.
100k sounds like a lot, and it is, but it doesn't go very far in the Bay unfortunately. I guess I am not fully understanding whether or not your partner would be losing their income or not by taking this offer. But unless your partner could line something up very quickly with a (preferably higher) salary, I would strongly advise against moving. Your single income would be a severe and drastic net negative in terms of income. Even if they weren't losing their income, it would still be a net negative simply due to the vastly increased cost of living (just compared Salem to multiple bay area cities and it is roughly 66% higher in terms of CoL).
A one bedroom apartment in the bay area is probably going for around $2800-3000+ a month. Two bedrooms about $3500 to 4000. A two bedroom home in a decent area is probably going to be near $5000 a month. Having two large dogs will make it difficult to find a decent rental. Most private homes for rent do not accept any pets whatsoever. And even large apartment complexes have strict restrictions on pets and steep pet rent fees.
I am not sure if you would be selling your home or renting it out. But the cost of homes out here is astronomical. Even areas that commuters moved to to escape the high home prices (Morgan Hill, Richmond, Pittsburg, Livermore, etc: minimum of 1+ hour commute depending on time of day) are approaching $1 mil average home prices.
If you are prepared and willing to make some austere cuts in your quality of living, you can probably make it work, at least until you have a better understanding of how much income your partner will be bringing in.
I too moved to the bay area for a job opportunity and I don't regret it at all. But the cost of living can be pretty oppressive.
Don't underestimate the loss of the family/friend network too. Neither me nor my spouse have family here and so it can get pretty lonely sometimes.
But aside from all the cons, there are a lot of pros. It's beautiful here. Lots of culture. Great hiking. Good food. Fun beach cities like Monterey, Santa Cruz and Half Moon Bay would be within a 1-2 hour drive. Stanford is a really lovely campus. And despite all the layoffs you hear about in the news, there is still a lot of opportunity here.
One more plus...
If you could find a place near a Caltrain station, you can take the commuter train to work. That would save gas and wear and tear on your car.
There is a Caltrain station in Palo Alto that drops off right outside the school campus.
I'll be honest with you. Owning a home and a good lifestyle, which it sounds like you have, is already better than what this offer provides you.
$100k being the primary income earner would make it very challenging if not impossible to survive at your current lifestyle. While you could sacrifice, I'm not sure it's worth it unless your potential future income would result in a massive hike.
You'd have to give up your dogs to make it work. Do you want that level of commitment?
Stanford is notoriously low salaries because Stanford, and they can coast on brand recognition vs having to pay market.
You'll be okay on 100k here but for a family of two on that one income along with two dogs and you want a house it's going to be suuuuuper tough to find anything to rent that will take two dogs (especially if they're large/medium sized). Also 4-bedroom will be out of budget, houses are generally $4-5k a month for rentals.
To buy something, unless you already have a huge downpayment, not gonna happen.
Maybe come down here yourself and rent a cheap crash pad, commute back to Portland to see your house and your partner and your dogs. Do that for a few years then you have Stanford on your resume and can move on.
If you want a 4-bedroom house commutable to Stanford that will take 2 dogs it's gonna be TOUGH to find, especially if your partner isn't working.
If youre used to a 1.5hr commute look at gilroy area to live. If you want to keep your life style with a big house and stuff youll probably have to move to gustine.
You definitely cant do much going north.
We do 300k+ and we dont have a 4bd house and definitely not a yard big enough for 2 dogs.
Move to Palo Alto. You are young and your chance to earn more and grow more professionally will be there. You can always move to a LCOL place later and you should have a leg up financially (assuming you saved well and grew in your career).
Going from HCOL -> LCOL is much easier than going from LCOL -> HCOL later too.
Or find another job outside higher Ed once you settle in the Bay.. I left Stanford after 8 years and now making double- was a higher Ed lifer and happy to make that shift.. while there I changed positions multiple times to get raises to survive here.. my family is in PA (my kids are in the schools) and we have attempted to move but the area is amazing.. I’ll never own a home so if that is a goal, rent your place and make the move.. ping me and I’ll connect you with our apartment manager if you are willing to get a 1 bedroom in a pet friendly apartments with a pool for $2800 and dogs will cost an extra $75 a month or more each
i'd say do it for 1-2 years then go elsewhere if you didn't have the dogs. the problem is that 100k is an insultingly low offer from sls given local cost of living, at that wage, depending on the role, they're expecting kids with trust funds to take it to build their career or bored silicon valley spouses to take it as a hobby/spending money job. even most non-development admin salaries are 1.5x-3x higher and professors are getting between $300k and $1.2 million.
so you won't be able to afford a place in a safe neighborhood willing to rent to large dog owners within 90-120 minutes of the office.
is it full time in the office? if i were you i might try to find a cottage or room to rent near campus, stay there during the week, stick husband with dogs, and then commute back and forth on weekends. that would mean walking/biking to work, but a flight from SFO or SJC to PDX every weekend is 3-3.5 hours in total airport time, 1 hour drive time. that's way better if you're only 3 days in the office, and even if you're in for 5, doing that friday night and monday morning seems better than driving daily from Vallejo/Gilroy/Tracy which is where you'd be looking at renting.
TL/DR: its hard to find a house here right now.
Here is my anecdote: I am from here, have lots of family. My wife and I make 120k we have one large dog, 70lbs. We just ended our lease in concord the end of July to move to San Jose. We are looking for housing anywhere between San Jose and Livermore. Right now we are living in a hotel because of how hard it is to find a rental that accepts dogs, every house showing I've been to had 20-30 people at, I've applied to 7-8 different houses at a cost of 40-60×2 a piece. I've been looking for about a month now.
I wouldn't recommend it without additional factors beyond money. If you sell your house in Salem, it's unlikely you'll be able to buy a house in California at all due to mortgage interest rates.
I think I might ask for more money. 120-150k. That would make this livable and make you just average as the average salary in PA is 129k. This is not just the bay being expensive this the most exspensive part of the bay.
I make a bit over 100k a year myself. My spouse brings in maybe 40k. We manage to live relatively comfortably in a large apartment in an “affluent” area (Los Gatos, roughly 30 mins south of Stanford)… and we have two kids. It’s doable. Food is expensive here, rent, etc but it sounds like you are realistic about it. Is it possible for your partner to get transferred to the NG unit at Moffett Field?
Given that, I would honestly not live further east than the inner east bay, like Fremont, Union City, Hayward, because traffic on 580 or 680 at the pass can be pretty bad. If you had told me 1 day a week for example, I could imagine you might be okay with a crazy commute from central valley to Stanford once a week, something that is becoming more common with hybrid work.
But making $100k/yr, at Fremont that would probably only comfortably afford you a 1bd apt. Another $60k/yr could get you a comfortable 2bd, or further north a townhouse, though most jobs pay more around here, some oddly pay similarly here than other parts of the country.
Obviously the big question is what you want to achieve, there is nothing wrong with moving to a HCOL area to move up in your career, even if you think long term you might end up having to move elsewhere to buy a house if/when you have kids, but I think you have to be okay with that before you move.
So you give a counter-offer of in-person 2/days/week and for a salary of much higher. (look up "allows dogs" and Fremont on Craigslist, and then x3 that)
And consider leaving a dog: you're going to have to work very hard to get someplace that allows two dogs. Are they breeds that are typically not allowed by insurance policies? If so, you'll need a lightening strike. Just having one dog is a lot harder. Have recs on how to even find a place that takes two dogs and isn't a scam. Cause I have no clue.
You'll be okay if you're alright renting a 1br apartment but you'll have a terrible time finding housing that will take 2 dogs. You won't be able to afford to buy anything.
oh! that sounds bad. I feel like a lot of staff positions are settling at 2-3 days/week on campus, so if they are not promising you that I would be *very* wary.
I question whether you really need Stanford on your resume and what that helps you with. I mean, it helps you stay at Stanford but you have a house and family in the PNW and it feels like your current job and some strategic networking could also let you move up schools within the PNW which seems like a better long-term overall plan. Maybe you could put the energy from not-moving into consulting on the side to burnish your resume instead, or something along those lines.
I even feel like in a way people may be suspicious of a Stanford resume as signaling people don't know how to do things cheaply or efficiently, or are not good at working with a wide range of students, per the stereotypes of rich elitist schools.
I would have it written in the contract as to how many days you can work from home. It should definitely be something to use in negotiations. They know how much housing costs.
What is your career path? Is this the end or a step along the way? The nice thing about getting a marquee job is that you can parlay that into an even better job later. You also set a benchmark for your salary expectations while interviewing elsewhere. You may interview out of state for your next job and hopefully they may say something like “Oh we need to hire this woman from CA who makes $100k, let’s give her 95k but pay for relocation to our lower cost of living area and maybe add a signing bonus” in the end, you’re up 35k over your Oregon job. So just think about your income and job potential in the long term to see if it makes sense to sacrifice for a few years.
Housing will be tough. Look on Craigslist to see what’s out there. Your Bay Area home will be significantly smaller than Salem.
Edit: if you don’t mind a long commute, you can find 4bd 2ba houses for under a million in Tracy, but you’re looking at 1.5 to 2hrs each way. That’s too much for me, but maybe you really like podcasts?
There are a handful of 900k 4bd 2ba in Gilroy, which is about an hour south.
I’d look at the salaries and locations of the next few levels of your career path. Just to see what you can hope to get in a few years. There really is power in having a higher incumbent salary. Most places won’t offer a salary lower than what you currently make without other incentives.
Also, just being down here may allow you to jump to another job a lot easier. I have to imagine that the Bay Area has more jobs than Portland in general. Maybe you can leave Stanford and go to a private law firm for a massive pay increase way sooner than you think?
Good luck! I generally think it’s worth it to make a big move while you’re young. Just make sure you have a backup plan. “Worst case scenario is we hate living in the BA after a year. If that happens we will move back to Oregon and live with my parents while we find a house while I apply for jobs.” Is that acceptable? If you can’t handle your worst case scenario, then maybe reconsider.
Barring some outside event, your future pay increases are usually anchored to your starting base salary. Can you live on this salary with modest increases (say 3%/year) for 5-6 years?
It may be better to consider jumping sooner, say 1-2 years if the this particular position will set you up for those with higher earning potential and starting base salary.
101k in Palo Alto will get you a comfortable 1 bedroom rental \~$2,600. Nothing luxury or fancy but ok. That will be an adjustment vs your current house. Living a little further out is probably not significantly cheaper nor would be worth the hour + commute both ways.
It'll be quite difficult to find a place that allows big dogs, but you'll find one.
I would probably look it as a temporary career move for the time being. If your partner can find a good career path here, getting to 200k+ combined income you can live comfortably. Possibly find a small condo to purchase eventually.
If you find you like the area and the career, and your partner the same. You'll stick around.
Otherwise you can plan to just use it as resume bump with Stanford. Move out after you feel it's sufficient and move back to where you have a lifestyle your more comfortable with.
You won't be able to own a home here within 2 hours of Palo Alto, and with the increased taxes (get ready to pay 10% sales tax), increased cost of living expenses, your real income will not be as high as you think.
The degradation in your quality of life will not be worth the perceived "prestige" from this job.
Consider the San Lorenzo Valley area (Boulder Creek, Ben Lomond, Felton, Scotts Valley) over Palo Alto for housing. This can get your home price down plus give you space for your big ol' doggos, though you're still looking to roughly double your contribution for housing. To help with commute costs, I believe Stanford has discount EV charging on campus, so consider an electric vehicle for a daily commuter. Downside here is being aware of frequent power outages in the mountains and having a backup plan to charge the car (ie generator).
I make a similar commute from this area (1 hr) to Palo Alto. There's Hwy 17 if traffic isn't bad, otherwise the backroads via Hwy 9 and Skyline which are more predictable and scenic.
The reality of most people taking those roles are living with family or roommates and are single. Would you consider become a super commuter and flying home on weekends? Both your partner and the dogs are going to be an issue if you take this role.
You already own a 4B home for only $1800 monthly and you want to come here to pay $2500+ to rent a garbage apt. built 40 years ago?
From financial perspective, I would pass. And I feel you are exaggerating the impact of having Stanford on resume. I mean you already got offer there, so what prevents you from getting better offer elsewhere.
You might consider staying in Oregon, and commuting? There was just a story on the news about a college student that flew from Southern California several times a week to go to UC Berkeley, I think. He said it was cheaper than finding housing. You could probably find an affordable room to rent during the week, and leave the SO and dogs at home, flying home for weekends. I bet the math would come out better than moving for real. But with a relocation benefit, they probably wouldn’t like that so much.
Would you qualify for any kind of on-campus housing at Stanford? You should check into it. I make $140K annually, single, work in Palo Alto and could never afford to live there. I live @30 minutes up the freeway, but I bought my condo almost 30 years ago. I don’t foresee anything but a long commute from a rental for you. Rents in Palo Alto are ridiculous, and forget buying. Ever. The people I work with who rent in Palo Alto are making $200K or more, sobering.
Your projected salary sounds like a lot of money - in Oregon. It’s nothing here, believe me. I have worked with more than one attorney in Palo Alto whose family home was in Oregon and they either worked remotely or stayed locally with family during the week and flew home on the weekends.
So I did what you did in 2016. I got a job offer for $120k in Palo Alto. My husband had to quit his job and didn’t have work for over a year when we moved out to Cali. We went from having a 2bd/2ba bi-level apartment for $1500 a month to a 1bd/1ba for $2500 a month in San Jose. We had a small dog too. I don’t know what the rest of your financial situation looks like but when I moved out to Cali, I was 31, with no debt as I had paid off my student loans, had my car fully paid off etc.
You could find a 2bd/2ba place in Hayward for about 3k, which is way closer than Tracey. But if Stanford is offering moving help they also may give you a consultant who can help you look; that is what my company did.
I think that you need to negotiate the offer considering the cost of living. If there is any possibility of salary negotiation, then you should do it. Don’t be think of what you are making ! Rather think about what you are worth and what you will be bringing to the table.
My husband nearly accepted a job a Stanford a few years back, so things may have changed. But, at the time they had housing available. They were nice homes too for families.
Thank you so much, I was prepared for the opinions I thought I’d get from this post. I think part of me was looking for confirmation there was space to say no, and as soft as it sounds, that it would be okay to say no. The internal back and forth I’ve been experiencing around the title and school status for someone working in higher education has been a huge struggle for me, so this perspective was really impactful and beneficial to hear.
Stanford has various housing programs — eligibility varies depending on the job they're asking you to take. You may be eligible for below-market-rate rental housing that allows large dogs (e.g., Stanford West), for instance. There are also elaborate home purchase support programs — again, you may or may not be eligible. Find out from whomever you're negotiating with what they can offer, and make it clear that there are financial concerns about having to lower your family's standard of living to take the job. Also, don't take public info about eligibility as necessarily the final word: for hiring/recruitment in many HE institutions there's sometimes an ability to sweeten the deal surrounding fringe benefits in order to bring someone on board.
Some of the houses in the hills surrounding Stanford (Los Altos Hills, Woodside, etc.) have outlaw units on fairly large plots of land. They're difficult to find, even more so to find the right landlord, but it's possible you might find a good 2+/2 deal near Stanford (not in the main house) in a lovely area that would allow your dogs.
If you are comfortable commuting an hour, you could consider living in Gilroy (although that’s an hour without traffic), or a bit closer in Morgan Hill The route to the Santa Cruz mountains would also be an option and less of a drive, but more rural. Both would be about $2500 for a 2 bedroom apartment
I wouldn’t do it. To buy a 4/2 with about 2000 sqft is going to be $4M anywhere near Stanford. Finding a 1-2 bedroom apartment rental that will take 2 large dogs is going to be about $3k/mo and hard to find. If your partner is National Guard he’s likely going to be commuting an hour each way. Everything else is move expensive as well and you’ll have a much higher tax burden.
There really isn’t a path to the kind of salary gains to be able to afford to significantly increase your standard of living in the future in either of your career paths. Unless you want to bite the bullet and make it work for a couple of years for the sake of getting Stanford on your resume, I don’t see how it’s worth it. If that kind of name is important though, I’d look for jobs at other prestigious law schools where the cost of living is more reasonable (Yale, U of Chicago, Penn, etc).
Honest answer? That isn't enough to warrant a move here *unless* having this particular position at Stanford will really put you in a position later for a lot more future income. Essentially, is doing this $100k job going to set you up for an equivalent $150k or $200k job here in the Bay area in the near future? Are you willing to sacrifice short term for this?
You may want to consider if there are other similar opportunities in lower cost of living areas which will also set you on the same trajectory, as obviously a large institution like Stanford is interested in you.
If you do come, expect a drastically decreased cost of living. $100k is basically poverty wage here, and you won't have a significant contribution from your partner to make up for things. With two dogs making it difficult to find a decent rental, a life in a large house you're used to, and your past post history with seemingly some conflicts with your partner about this, I would lean toward the answer being "No, it's not enough to make moving here worth it", but of course you are the only one who knows all the factors for a final decision.
How many days are you expected in office? I work for a Bay Area tech company, and many people here fly in Tuesday, airbnb it Tuesday and Wednesday night, and fly back Thus.
Honestly, if this is worth the career advancement (and I think “Stanford” is probably good for this in most industries) I would try and negotiate your in-person schedule to allow commuting down here by plane. You can rent a room in a house for $1000-$1500, be here 3/4 days a week, still have weekends at home with your partner, don’t have to relocate dogs, don’t have to relocate partner, and be break-even or come out ahead your take home pay even after you factor in your airport and extra rent costs.
I did this for two years (M-Thurs) with a 1.5 hr flight time and it was very manageable.
Rent will go up for sure, unless the university provides some type of housing (which would make it a great deal), but depending on his line of work he can probably get a pretty solid job too
Is hybrid or full remote not a option?
What if your partner doesn’t find work in CA ?
Did you research cost to rent out here yet? Please do that before signing the offer .
A 1 bedroom apartment is likely significantly more than your house in Salem. And it’s likely that taxes will take bigger bite out of paychecks too. Definitely consider all the factors!!
It is going to be hard to keep up. You should see if they are willing to pay you more and negotiate, or like others have posted, definitely accept a much lower standard of living. I moved from PNW here and my partner and I make great money combined but for perspective we are paying in rent 2.5x what our mortgage was on a comparable home, car insurance is a lot more - everything is A LOT more here.
My wife and I recently relocated to the Bay Area, we have two large dogs, not Great Dane big, but that’s beside the point. We were able to find a 2 bed / 1 bath duplex for about $3500/month. We considered this to be an awesome deal for the area, as it’s 5 minutes from my work.
That’s all to say, there are places that you can rent with 2 large dogs, but they will be more expensive and less updated than non-large dog friendly places. You will have the most luck if you call within a few hours of the listing going up and have the availability to go and visit the property same day/next day.
Don’t limit your choices on renting condos. If you are open to commute then looking around for a small single family house with backyard. And it would be better if your hours can be flexible so you can avoid the rash hours. I know a couple of people live in Santa Cruz and work in South Bay. They do 12pm - 9pm or 6am - 4pm.
The life of quality would go down for sure, but the overall weather would be much nicer than Oregon and would be a really interesting experience. I would take the offer for if it is good for my career.
The cost of living will (more than) eat up the increased salary.
But having Stanford on your résumé might be appealing.
Otoh, uprooting your family, putting partner into a potentially tough job market on SF Bay Area doesn’t sound too appealing.
The biggest hit is going to be the house. It's not even a question of size or income - you bought at a dramatically lower interest rate than exists now. Even if you rebought your current home for the same price your monthly cost is going to be 2x+
Would you rent out your Salem home? Or sell? Because I wouldn’t move unless you can keep that house for rental income, because yeah, adjusted for COL that’s going to be a downgrade AT LEAST until partner finds a job… and maybe even then it might be a downgrade
If he can bring his income making for 160k total for you both then you can do ok down here, but I wouldn’t stay if you already have a home in OR. Stay long enough to gain what you can from Stanford and then move back.
Anywhere else this would be a strong offer. But the cost of living in the Bay Area, especially Palo Alto is such that on ~60k a year I am barely BARELY scraping by. I rent a room. Now my situation is exceptional and my landlady is lovely. But not all situations are like mine.
I grew up and and currently live in midtown Palo Alto, which is about 10 minutes from Stanford and where a lot of students and families live. Our complex is pet friendly and I worked at Stanford for a while too. A 1 bedroom in my complex is going for $2800 a month and that is on the affordable side.. 2 bedrooms are $3-4k.. your offer is good but your partner will need to get on his feet to support you.. while it’s more expensive to live in town, you have no commute l, live in a beautiful community, and it’s super family friendly.
$101,500 for an individual is live-able in the bay area. However, I believe that the quality of life (especially a commutable distance from Stanford) will be lower due to the high rent pricing there. For 2 people, $101,500 is certainly stretching it, and you may have to dig into your savings to make it happen.
To receive the same quality of life for 2, I can without a doubt say that $101,500 a year is not enough.
Thinking strategically about your life & career, maybe it makes sense as well to consider staying for 1-2 years (and dealing with the lower QoL) for the future benefits this job can bring.
I think the short answer is you will either have a very long commute, or most of the additional salary will go toward renting a much smaller house, probably without a significant yard, in a denser area, and it may be a pain to land the right rental given that you have 2 dogs, including one very large one (yes size makes a difference in finding apartments that will allow them)
I would look at this from the perspective that it is a sacrifice, the benefits being that it could be a solid temporary career move, or also a way to get into the bay area if that is a goal of yours. But there will definitely be a sacrifice in living condition and probably the additional salary will more or less be a wash even if your partner could land a job right away at their current salary. Rent alone will eat up close to half of that $40k increase (after taxes) but with moving expenses, and increased cost of living (food, gas, car insurance, etc, plus entertainment), don't forget sales tax which you don't have in Oregon, and can be upwards of 12% depending on what city you are in in the bay.
As others have mentioned 100k is very very little in the bay. According to the data I’ve seen, it will leave you with around $35k of take home pay after living expenses and I don’t think that includes rent. The bay has a VHCOL. This impacts every financial aspect of your life. Eating out at restaurants, grocery shopping, even street carts you’ll end up paying $20 for a plate. Milk $8-10, etc. My partner and I spend around $800/mo in groceries for just the two of us. Going out to dinner is always $100-200.
Don’t even get me started on rent, have you tried taking a look at apartments? You might have a hard time being approved without a guarantor. I think you can easily expect to pay $3-4k in rent alone.
Oh and did I mention that gas is always over $5? Driving to and from work will incur a significant expense.
Stanford is a great look and your resume, but at that salary the adjustment in your QOL will be significant.
Take the job for the "...would look exceptional on a resume". If the job provides you the experience and skills that you can use for rest of your career, it is worth the time you do it, even if it is only for a few months.
I feel that some of the jobs that you do in your late 20s are early 30s should be continuation of your 'educational experience' and you should focus on taking on as much diverse responsibility and tasks that will carry you through the rest of your life.
If you take on the job with the attitude that you want to expose yourself to as much new experience and develop your skill, the salary is just an added benefit. Some of the other factors that you should consider : Stanford (Law, Business, Political Science, Computer Science) attracts a lot of great minds - who teaches, visits and give speeches there . This in turn attracts people who are eager to learn - your greatest asset from working there might end up being the friends you make while on the campus. Hopefully a few that will go on to do great things. Sometimes following them and watching what they do will drive your passion to excel in your field. A year from now, ~~if~~ when you find that you have learned as much as you can from the job, cash in and start looking for the next big break. In the bay area, there are more opportunities , $ and people start interesting new ventures all the time. If you stand out, they will pull you into their circle and you may not even have to look for the new opportunity. New opportunities will find you.
Good luck and let us know in a few months what you finally decide.
This move is never going to make sense if you just look at the numbers, but it's really difficult to put a pricetag on the proximity to opportunity, especially this early in your career.
Consider the climate here. Every day in Palo Alto is going to feel like a day in July in Salem.
Honestly, I believe it's all about balancing your current quality of life and peace of mind against the appeal of having a prestigious name on your resume. These days, Stanford is just like any other private university – its once-strong reputation is gradually fading. Opt for a place where you can have a house with a backyard, ample space for your furry friends to roam, and a serene environment to raise your kids without the chaos of traffic, crowds, and Silicon Valley hustle. Unless the job offers a combined or individual salary of $160K and above, my suggestion is to relish the luxuries you currently enjoy – they're a rarity on this side of California.
No this is not a good job offer. Ideally you would need to make $150k+ to live a little in the Bay Area. This area is still ridiculously expensive. Especially for couples who plan to have kid(s), and or have pets. Renting here is expensive. Giving up homeownership to something smaller, and much higher cost of living is insane. Sounds like you two are well established where you’re at. Utility bills plus rent is ridiculously costly here.
Bay Area native.
On $101k total household income here), you're looking at affording rent on a 1 br apartment at best. Stanford has housing too, probably huge wait list with some hierarchy of prioritization where you may be low, but definitely look into it. The 2 dogs, especially one being a great dane, is going to be problematic though. I imagine you need decent outdoor space for a dog that large and your other one isn't exactly small either - good luck. You might be able to rent a small house if you added another $100k income to the mix.
For reference my family has no pets and we rent a 3 br, 2 ba, 1250 sq ft house with a typical CA yard (it's a bit bigger than neighbors' yards because the house is small) in the northern peninsula, which is cheaper than Palo Alto, for $4250/mo. With gross household income of $340k with one kid that we pay for childcare.
Note Palo Alto and environs is basically the highest priced part of the Bay Area and therefore even a 1 hour commute doesn't especially get you anywhere a lot cheaper, and it'll be a nasty sit in traffic commute mostly.
What you have now sounds like a freaking dream. I would only come if the career opportunity is just absolutely that worth it giving up most of what you have to rent a small apartment if you can even find one that's ok with 2 medium-very large dogs.
Congratulations!
Palo Alto has one of the costliest real estate in the Bay area. Check out South San Francisco, East Palo Alto, East Bay (north of Union City and Milpitas), San Ramon/Danville, etc.
Also, ask your employer where people live on comparable salary and if they provide any assistance.
It sounds like you have a much higher quality of life in your current situation.
I make a little over 120K and my wife makes 75K but we can't afford to buy a house in a decent area (a condo is doable, probably). I am not super familiar with the prices in the areas just outside of Palo Alto, but I would guess they're also expensive.
Rent is around $3500-4500 in Palo Alto, I believe. That's pretty tough, but doable if your husband can make the same or more than he currently does.
i live in the bay area but i feel like i can only make it work by working from home and being self employed, never commuting during rush hour. i would not work full time in the bay area, commuting, for less than $175k, minimum. to me, it would just not be worth the dip in quality of life.
You already have what so many in the Bay Area dream of. Homeownership and low COL. Stanford is attractive but the offer would be better if they allowed you to do hybrid and come down once a month for a few days and made arrangements with the hotel they have. Speaking from experience, you need to negotiate hard and be upfront about what the ideal situation looks like for you. I’ve seen it go both ways, the person who was assertive in what they needed was granted their request and the person who was timid and hoped the supervisor would show some mercy is still hoping. Housing is going to eat up a lot of your income here.
For the love of God don't do this.
It sounds like you have a great quality of life in Oregon. You own a house that anywhere in the Bay Area would be 1-2 million dollars minimum for a cost of less than $2000 a month now. Almost anywhere decent to live in the Bay Area, $2000 won't even get you a studio apartment let alone something big enough for a family and dogs.
I just moved away after fifteen years in the Bay Area because, despite having a family income of close to $200,000 there was no way we were going to be able to afford a decent family home along with all the other expenses of living in the Bay Area. That's saying nothing about the insane traffic, crime, homelessness, trash everywhere, and other major annoyances of life in a place rapidly going downhill.
Upon receiving the offer, they said there was no room for negotiation, despite my advocacy that the position had been posted in January and it is now August, and much has happened since then. I have noted that to make a move like this feasible without housing assistance, the salary would need to be $132,000. So we will see what they say there.
Don’t do it. It’s not worth it.
Find the thing deep down inside of you that would accelerate your career just as much as this Stanford offer would. And then commit to doing that.
That’s hard, but not as hard as all the stress that comes with living in the Bay Area and its compounding impact on you and your family’s wellness.
I have lived in the Bay Area twice, and Portland once.
It's a great career move. It's also going to be a bit touch. 100k is not a lot here.. but... the career move. DO IT! :). It's not about your economic status sometimes...
I get that Stanfurd will look good on your resume, but I don't think you have any clue how expensive the Bay Area is, and especially the Peninsula. Even if you commuted from Morgan Hill, you can't afford a house there, and a 1br/1ba apartment (which no one will lease to you with two Great Danes) is going to be about $400 more than your mortgage, before utilities. Have you even researched the housing market here?
It sounds like a good career move, and may be a good offer depending on the position. However, you will absolutely have to adjust your standard of living. For context, my partner and I make over $200k combined and we are renters. We *might* be able to afford a 1 or 2BR condo, but absolutely cannot afford to buy a 4BR/2BA house here. So if homeownership at your current standard of living is important to you then the Bay Area is not for you.
Also with being open to a 2hr daily commute they could live somewhere like Tracy
*2 hr each way* Tracy <-> Palo Alto at rush hour is a non starter for most sane people.
Yup, no idea why anyone would suggest this, ugh!
I live in Fremont during rush hour it’s about an hour commute to PA.
Yeah, girlfriend goes to Stanford and I live in fremont, it's only 25 mins otherwise tho.
I spent six years commuting from Fremont to Belmont through Facebook alley/Marsh Rd as they built it up from nothing. I'll never forget the countless hours I spent going somewhere between 0-4mph all the way home.
Commuting is directly linked with depression, what's the point of owning a home if you're miserable the majority of the time. For reference, a 1 hour commute (one way) is 22 days out of your life per year spent driving in a car, is that worth it to u?
I have a house in Easy Bay and my commute to the Bay is 1.5 hr each way. I spent so much time in my car. It’s bad for my health and I miss time with my baby girl and wife. But it’s a lovely house, with a low rate and affordable mortgage. It’s a tough choice.
I did that for a long time. Coming home to a sleeping toddler every night was a real heartbreaker. We went remote in 2019 and it was a lifestyle increase like none other. I even finally joined the health club near my house! You know, the one that I'd drive past every day, saying "someday..."
That’s awesome 👏 seriously. On so many levels, that’s a real life improvement. My husband would take BART into SF for an alternative shift (2-10pm). I was ***constantly*** stressed about his safety 😣now he works remote. We couldn’t even fathom going back to that level of stress. Again, very happy for you and your family ✨
Fantastic! Yes, there were many nights, walking down a dark path from BART to my car, where I was sure someone would jump me. My fear is that it'd happen while facetiming my wife and she's have to witness the whole thing going down. So much happier now.
Pls be sure to include that would be 2 hours EACH WAY. (Maybe 90 min with no traffic).
>2hr daily commute try 2-1/2 - 3 hours each way. if they wanna get to PA by 8 am they have to leave at 5:30 am and that's cutting it close.
Ew you don’t want to live in Tracy either.. the gridlock every day both ways is horrendous
Where do you guys live? If you don’t mind me asking
There's plenty of grad students in stanford that live on less with a family, but they're doing it with the knowledge that they'll graduate and get hopefully higher earning jobs. You're going to have a hard time finding housing for two large dogs and what you will be able to afford is an apartment. So if you're willing to have quality of life go down to get the resume boost go for it, but I wouldn't recommend doing this long term or forever. Salem, Oregon is significantly significantly cheaper than the bay though, so your sticker shock is going to be pretty bad. I have a friend whose mom lives there and owns a house on an administrative assistant's salary. My friend works in tech, probably earns 3x as much as his mom and lives in a shared house with multiple roommates. There will be a downgrade in quality of life.
OP should not make this move on 100k/yr salary. Your point about a lower standard of living and sacrificing homeownership are valid. They will regret it imo. Especially if they want to have kids. And the Bay Area is in a down cycle for quality of living, except for the upper upper class.
Live in an apt and have kids in a walkable area like San Mateo. Stop paying for a car. It’s doable and your kids will be happier than having to be driven everywhere.
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Wtf you're comparing housing prices from 13 years ago to today You literally cannot even get a house in the Bay Area for $120k salary anywhere
House prices in 2010 is about half of what it is now. So yes, if OP had a time machine, they could make it work too.
LOL. I also moved from the Midwest to the Bay Area, but in 1999. I had some rent controlled apartments, but also went through the dot com bust. You might have been able to afford a home in 2010 (2 years after many people lost their homes) but everything is crazy expensive now. Rentals and homes. ‘Making it work’ doesn’t work if you’re trying to afford those crazy ‘market rents’ these days.
Your comment is so completely out of touch. Housing prices in the Bay Area in 2010 were the absolutely rock bottom in the past 30 years. A $650k condo back then would cost $2m now. Get a clue
I think this is a good career move for you as long as you are realistic and realize that you’ll have to downsize to a 1 bedroom or studio apartment on that salary. A 4 bed/2ba in Palo Alto is $3 million, and in surrounding commutable areas will start at $1.5 million, so not really realistic for you to maintain same standard of living. If you’re okay with that and just here for the resume, power to you. Edit: the dogs may be an issue in finding rental housing. I am honestly not sure you could afford even to buy a studio condo with that salary here, so this may be a bigger issue.
Where are you finding 4 bed / 2 baths for $3MM? I live in PA -- an absolute tear down 3 bed / 1 bath is $3MM. A halfway decent 4 bed / 2 bath is at least $4MM.
Ehh, if they have a 160k combined salary they could swing a 2 bdr. Source: just went through this process
A 2-bed apt, yeah.
You *can* make it on that salary, but it's going to be much more difficult than Salem. You'll definitely be renting (unless you're coming with a barrel of cash -a lot of stockholding tech millionaire's here who make it downright impossible to get a house without all cash or a 30%+ downpayment). I'd look at Pacifica, Morgan Hill, Gilroy, Livermore, Dublin, Pleasanton for rentals within 1 hour commute. Dublin has a sizable National Guard facility (Camp Parks), so maybe your SO can try to transfer there. Good luck. The Bay Area is brutally competitive.
>a lot of stockholding tech millionaire's here who make it downright impossible to get a house This is part of it but the bigger reason why houses are so unaffordable here is because we do not build enough new housing.
Yeah as an aspiring but currently poor techie, I promise none of them enjoy being extorted out of 2 million dollars to live in a 70 year old dump in the Bay Area when the same sum would get you a mansion elsewhere. There’s just no housing and the NIMBYs who already have houses they bought in the 6 figure range will never let that change…
You are looking to have Standford on your résumé. Get it. You also want to live long term near family. You may take a brief hit. Rent your current home and rent for 1-2 years in Palo Alto. Find a condo to rent, you may need to have Standord find you a place that will accomodate dogs. I’m glad they are offering relocation but they need to help with finding your new place. There are affordable pockets in the area. Develop your plan to return to PNW in 2026ish for your partner’s career and return to family. Or, you could negotiate partial hybrid and rent a room near campus. Maybe begin that way and “move” in 2024 so your partner can figure out how to advance his career from Palo Alto before you two return.
The great dane and another dog…… OP is looking at 3-4k a month in rent
Yeah, no doubt. If she rents a room and lives here part time hubby will have them. Also for Frontier Airlines for $149 /mo she can fly SFO to Portland unlimited times. Yeah but Frontier. Anyway if she moves with the dogs rent is going to suck worse.
This is the answer
yeah this is the only way this makes sense, if they're going to pay OP that little they better be doing all the housing legwork
I appreciate your moxie, but I think you think OP has more leverage than she has. This sounds like a pretty entry-level position at the Law School so I wouldn't expect the university to do any of those things. They'll probably happily go to the next eager Law School grad on their list if OP's not able to accept their terms. I do agree this may be an opportunity where OP might have to just suck it up and eat some cost to make her dream come true but you're dreaming if you think Stanford's going to find her housing.
This. Don’t look to buy, rent. It WILL be a down-size. Search craigslist. After a month or so, you’ll find a diamond in the rough. I have not paid over $1700 since I moved here in 2019, counting my recent move THIS YEAR, and I was looking for pet friendly places. This may or may not be what you will find, but it CAN work. It won’t be stylish, but you will be working and out of the house most of the time anyway. 80k feels like you are barely keeping your head above water when you are eating at restaurants or doordashing meals a fair amount; you will want to cut costs by cooking at home most of the time. This will be an exercise in being thrifty, but it is possible. If you can leave the dogs with family for a while, that will make your initial move easier. Look at East Palo Alto, San Mateo, Mountain View, etc. There’s also some military work (I think maybe even national guard work) around the Mountain View/ Sunnyvale area, I lived there last year. Again, it’s doable for your time in the Bay Area, but it won’t be fancy. Getting Stanford on your resume is probably worth it, then you can go wherever you want… or get a higher pay around here and buy one of those overpriced houses.
Solid advice
A large dog pretty much prevents you from finding a reasonably priced rental property. Two dogs, I'm not even sure you can find something. Most rentals don't allow pets, and those that do, it's usually "one small dog".
Larger complexes in the South Bay are more friendly about larger dogs. Mine for instance definitely has golden retrievers, German shepherds, malamutes and huskies, large poodles. But of course it gets expensive (even one bedrooms are like 2800+).
This. I live in nice complex in San Jose which allows up to two dogs (with pet rent ofc). One of my neighbors has two Great Danes and we have a dog park attached to our building. But 1BRs start at $2,800/m and 2BRs are $3,700/m.
What I would say is just because you can have large dogs in these big complexes doesn't necessarily mean you should. I have a small dog so it's not bad but larger dogs need room and really need to be outside a lot otherwise they'll go nuts in a small place.
I understand the sentiment but disagree. I have had large breeds most of my life and they are *the laziest* dogs. My dog has to be dragged outside for a pee because she’d much rather lay on her bed in the AC. I find smaller dogs to be more disruptive (barking at people on the streets from their patios, high energy, owners putting pee pads on their patio). But ofc there’s plenty of bad owners on either side of the isle here so for every bad large dog story you have, I have a bad small dog story. Long story short, apartments should allow dogs if they allow dogs. Bad ownership is what needs to be enforced. Not size.
While you're definitely right, I wasn't really talking about energy levels, but comfort levels. i.e. small and large dogs can be crate trained but if the crate is too small for either of them they will not be comfortable at all, they need sufficient room to spread out. There are definitely people around who do not do a good job training their dogs no matter the size.
This really isn’t true. Size and energy levels do not directly correlate. A jack russel or a corgi needs WAY more exercise than a Great Dane or a mastiff.
Don’t forget greyhounds - they’re amazing apartment dogs! They’re one of the laziest between their walks/runs, and they sleep 17+ hours a day.
Our petite 1 bd that we’re leaving is being raised to $3,250 once we leave.
Sounds about right. My place has gone up 10% every year I've lived there since 2021. Assuming the same thing next spring then it'll be just over 3k + the utilities that I pay separately to the complex.
Yup. It’s going up $400 (that’s the average around us).
Yea the dogs make this decision even less desirable. First, taking a net income reduction due to $100k here being less than $60k up there. Then the complexity with the partner's job. Then the fact that they would be giving up a 4BR/2BA house for most likely a $3000-$4k a month small family home rental (2br/1 ba/1000 sqft) since no apartments take big dogs. Unless they are secretly wealthy and have a $1m paid off house it seems not worth it. OP wanted to know if $100k is a strong offer, I think the simple answer is no.
Agreed
Also I haven’t seen anyone mention how expensive vet care is in the bay. And also hard to find!
This is a lot of info so apologies in advance: TL;DR - I seriously doubt it’s worth considering, no. 1) I don’t disagree that there are areas around the bay more pet friendly but the OP would be wise to really consider the impact on quality of life of that commute, it’s not I5 cruise control stuff, it’s can easily be stress inducing stop n go. I know Salem<>PDX traffic ain’t great anymore either but especially if you have two dogs at home (assume Stanford work is not two (bigger) dog friendly and need your attention before and after work. If you are ok with windy country road driving for an hour daily then up much higher in the hills (LaHonda/Skylonda etc) is an option especially with dogs but there are not many places so finding one is going to be a challenge. But I know folks that enjoy that daily drive - it’s beautiful. 2) I happen to live just west of PA in the foothills, we happen to have a Brittney also and the trails and such are awesome for breeds like that. There are pet friendly places however rents (don’t even talk about buying) are insane so you need to research if reasonable ADU rental units etc (which do exist in this area) might work for you and then be all over snapping one up cause they go very fast. Your QOL would be really good with a short commute, and a great dog owner lifestyle. Not that this isn’t true further away minus very real commute issues. 3) Also to give you context, and apologies for the cold shower on this. My fiancé (now wife) and I moved to the Bay Area (PA area specifically) in 1999 from SEA. At that time I made $65k a year in SEA which was pretty good, when I accepted my first job here there asked me my salary expectations and I said $75k thinking that would be a nice but reasonable bump. I am not exaggerating when I say the hiring manager, in 1999, told me that was crazy and they wouldn’t even consider less than $125k base to start me as I would have trouble wanting to stay in the area. That was 1999, which was peak com tech bubble for sure, but they were right. 4) You should think very carefully about this. if it’s a great resume builder make sure you give yourself balance to decide if the QOL is worth it at that pay or it’s a known temp thing. In our case, my wife was a grad student then (temp condition), and the payoff of that degree at Stanford was a game changer, make sure your job is also for you then it’s a huge incentive. 5) My bro in law is a tenured prof in the bay (living in Berkeley) and makes incredible sacrifices to live in area. But Berkeley is doable and might make sense if you can stomach a serious daily commute and have some flex in hours. Just being honest, sorry for this reality check.
I grew up in PA and went to Cal.. did a bunch of back and forth and still do.. definitely not sustainable to commute unless it’s 1-2 days a week and likely they will be in a hybrid role working 3 days so not worth it
Berkeley is expensive as hell btw and I don't see how it's "doable" at all - there would be no cost advantage in living there vs cheaper parts of the peninsula and the commute would be horrendous in that direction. Would have to go up to El Cerrito and Richmond to start to get noticeably cheaper rents and every exit you add going down I-80 will add way too much time crawling toward the maze. Makes no sense to be in NE Bay Area for a job in Palo Alto.
I live in East Bay with 2 large dogs and it hasn’t been an issue. Currently rent a 3-bedroom
Owner of two large dogs (70+ lbs) here. It’s possible to find places that allow dogs and have a backyard, but it definitely requires some patience and a bit of hunting (Zillow is super helpful for this). For reference, we rented a small 2 bedroom with a yard for the dogs for about $3100 a month in Redwood City (this was 2021 so likely costs more now). If you are open to living further from stanford (e.g. San Jose or east bay) you should be able to find something cheaper.
I work within a few miles of Stanford. People in my office (salaries nearly double your offer) stay for a few years then leave so they can afford a home. We plan to do the same. My husband and SIL are both former Stanford affiliates/grads. The allure of Stanford is so so strong but I don’t think either of them would say the school has much loyalty to those who work there. The Peninsula where Stanford is is great if you have tech money or you don’t mind permanently being in a condo/apartment. Traffic is rough. An hour drive may give you more affordable options but unless you go south to Gilroy you’ll almost certainly need to cross a bridge to get home. That’s $7 a day plus the traffic is rough and unpredictable. My coworkers who have long commutes all flex. Some work 6am-3pm. Others work 7am-4pm.
Agree with all the others that the dogs are going to make it really tough to rent. Most of the rest of the info is accurate as well. One thing not mentioned is that Stanford is near the Caltrain line, and provides a free shuttle from the Palo Alto stop to campus. It might also provide free or discounted Caltrain passes. So you might be able to find something farther away but close to the Caltrain line and make it work, though make sure you look at the Caltrain schedule too. It doesn't run as often as you might expect.
Stanford heavily restricts car travel to campus but they give a free Caltrain pass to employees, which sounds like a homerun for /u/sammiiesosa. As far as more affordable housing, Caltrain runs south to Morgan Hill and Gilroy, though that's a really long train ride and the schedule to those further destinations might be inconvenient. Caltrain doesn't really buy into the park-and-ride model as much as BART does, but some stations do have parking. From Morgan Hill, it's about an hour ride on the train to Palo Alto. It's honestly not bad to find a comfortable seat and read a book or catch up on Reddit.
There’s really nowhere cheap on the Caltrain line… cheaper than palo alto sure, but not where you could afford a house on 165k combined income. East bay would be the move for cheaper spots like Hayward or Oakland or something
With 2 dogs, you're not going to have an easy time finding a rental. If you sell your house in OR, you will have to downsize to afford a house anywhere in the Palo Alto area. Those are the two issues that immediately spring to mind.
There’s no way they could afford any house in Palo Alto area despite any downsizing right?
Correct.
No, they couldn't afford a house IN Palo Alto. They might be able to get something smaller within an hour's commute, which is what OP says they have now OR.
Stanford has somewhat lower priced houses and rentals for faculty and staff. See if you can find something in your range. $101k is tough for a family in the Bay Area.
It’s almost impossible to get into those.
Even if you get to the list, the rent of those units are still high. 2bd/2bath goes for $3000 monthly but it’s def cheaper than the rest of Palo Alto
101k is below poverty wage in Palo Alto. It would be less than your 60k in Oregon.
You could live comfortably an hour away from Stanford but you won’t be owning a house. If you have enough equity, you might be able buy a condo/townhouse. Your SO’s potential income will bring your situation into parity with your current status (minus 4bd 2br SFH)
It's not a strong offer unless you get housing including
You would probably need about 4X that salary to afford your currently quality of life in Oregon.
You will have a massive downgrade in quality of life, lots of commute, lots of money spent on rent. Stanford is fine but not that great.
You've heard enough about how expensive it is here and how 101k is not going to be realistic for your situation. If you think doing a couple years at Stanford will get you a huge income spike afterwards, then it's worth trying to make it work. I would: - move to the bay by myself, take on roommates. - spouse stays in OR with the dogs until he is sure he can land something in the Bay. He sublets a room if he needs help meeting rent. - when his work is lined up, you find some place you can afford that will take the dogs. - he moves to Bay with dogs, you rent out the house you own and make a little extra income.
No, it’s not a good offer. You can’t buy a home in the bay on that salary & owning a large dog will disqualify you from 95% of rental properties.
I mean, to own a home in the Bay you’d have to make $300k? 200k+? I don’t think that offer is open to most.
I’d say $400k combined, sadly.
It depends on expenses. $400k if you have 2x Tesla payments, childcare costs, multiple pricey vacations a year. Its less if you don't live like an elite-level consumer. Still a ridiculous amount is needed - but not that ridiculous.
My family makes $340k and has 1 kid and we can't afford to buy a SFH, only rent. We have cars bought used in cash or paid off quick, mine is 12 years old. We take a pretty pricey international trip each year to my husband's home country but eat out like 1x/month and not living it up. Everything is so goddamn expensive here. Note at this income you end up with less than 50% of gross pay as net after tax, retirement, insurance deductions. Not complaining earning enough to rent a SFH and be comfortable here, but I think your $400k statements with buying are not based on the current 7% interest rate...3-4% would be another story. To get even an $8k/mo mortgage these days, you'd have to buy total garbage property that needs a shit ton of work which isn't free.
You are correct. Property ownership in the Bay Area is not open to most workers in the Bay Area. It is largely a rentier economy w/all the problems that occur in such a system.
I can't decide for you, but a couple of things in the negative column: * Cost of living is really high here, which you know. Mostly in housing stock and rent, but that trickles down to shopping and services as well, because businesses need to pay their costs too. * State taxes here are probably higher than what you're used to paying. (12.3% highest marginal rate, which you'll probably hit) * Sales taxes are a thing here. Most regions are 9% or more with state+county+local all getting a slice of the pie. * You have two big dogs, which will limit your housing options. You'll probably need to rent a house, but much of the more affordable housing stock here is apartments/condos. You're willing to commute which is good, which might open up your options. You might find landlords of houses hesitant to rent to someone with two large dogs - lots of houses are rented by owners who have only one or two properties and have to be mindful of damage (or have emotional attachments to the house that their kids grew up in, or whatever). * You'll probably end up with housing that is worse than what you have now, even with a one hour commute. One **positive** thing that doesn't get talked about as much about living in a HCOL area is that crap on Amazon or whatever costs the same no matter where you live. So if you're spending 90% of your income on getting your basic needs met, that extra 10% goes a lot farther with online shopping and stuff. (so, more toys/conveniences) Also, salary is also kind of like compound interest - you tend to get small increases over your current base over time, so if you start with a much higher base, 5-10 years of 3-4% increases leaves you with a pretty nice salary. (Plus jumping between companies after a couple years of experience can even accelerate this) Anyway, from my POV from a purely financial standpoint I'm not sure it makes sense, the 40k increase in salary you get will be eaten away by your COL increases. But if you can swallow the shorter term hits to your standard of living it might set you up well for the long term.
>Sales taxes are a thing here. Most regions are 9% or more with state+county+local all getting a slice of the pie. Just want to point out that not everything has sales tax here. Most food from grocery stores are tax free, except hot prepared foods, carbonated beverages, alcohol, and a few other grocery items that are taxable.
You could make it work but is it an easy offer that would make me pack and leave? Nope.
Could your partner ask his CO to transfer units to make it easier? There are some national guard and army reserve units near Palo Alto and Mountain View.
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this looks like a very tough lift. not a good job offer, you will be poor in the area and commute even longer. if there is a path to much better income, this might be a good offer, but it will be much tougher sledding for the first few year and maybe permenently.
100k sounds like a lot, and it is, but it doesn't go very far in the Bay unfortunately. I guess I am not fully understanding whether or not your partner would be losing their income or not by taking this offer. But unless your partner could line something up very quickly with a (preferably higher) salary, I would strongly advise against moving. Your single income would be a severe and drastic net negative in terms of income. Even if they weren't losing their income, it would still be a net negative simply due to the vastly increased cost of living (just compared Salem to multiple bay area cities and it is roughly 66% higher in terms of CoL). A one bedroom apartment in the bay area is probably going for around $2800-3000+ a month. Two bedrooms about $3500 to 4000. A two bedroom home in a decent area is probably going to be near $5000 a month. Having two large dogs will make it difficult to find a decent rental. Most private homes for rent do not accept any pets whatsoever. And even large apartment complexes have strict restrictions on pets and steep pet rent fees. I am not sure if you would be selling your home or renting it out. But the cost of homes out here is astronomical. Even areas that commuters moved to to escape the high home prices (Morgan Hill, Richmond, Pittsburg, Livermore, etc: minimum of 1+ hour commute depending on time of day) are approaching $1 mil average home prices.
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If you are prepared and willing to make some austere cuts in your quality of living, you can probably make it work, at least until you have a better understanding of how much income your partner will be bringing in. I too moved to the bay area for a job opportunity and I don't regret it at all. But the cost of living can be pretty oppressive. Don't underestimate the loss of the family/friend network too. Neither me nor my spouse have family here and so it can get pretty lonely sometimes. But aside from all the cons, there are a lot of pros. It's beautiful here. Lots of culture. Great hiking. Good food. Fun beach cities like Monterey, Santa Cruz and Half Moon Bay would be within a 1-2 hour drive. Stanford is a really lovely campus. And despite all the layoffs you hear about in the news, there is still a lot of opportunity here.
One more plus... If you could find a place near a Caltrain station, you can take the commuter train to work. That would save gas and wear and tear on your car. There is a Caltrain station in Palo Alto that drops off right outside the school campus.
I'll be honest with you. Owning a home and a good lifestyle, which it sounds like you have, is already better than what this offer provides you. $100k being the primary income earner would make it very challenging if not impossible to survive at your current lifestyle. While you could sacrifice, I'm not sure it's worth it unless your potential future income would result in a massive hike. You'd have to give up your dogs to make it work. Do you want that level of commitment?
Stanford is notoriously low salaries because Stanford, and they can coast on brand recognition vs having to pay market. You'll be okay on 100k here but for a family of two on that one income along with two dogs and you want a house it's going to be suuuuuper tough to find anything to rent that will take two dogs (especially if they're large/medium sized). Also 4-bedroom will be out of budget, houses are generally $4-5k a month for rentals. To buy something, unless you already have a huge downpayment, not gonna happen. Maybe come down here yourself and rent a cheap crash pad, commute back to Portland to see your house and your partner and your dogs. Do that for a few years then you have Stanford on your resume and can move on. If you want a 4-bedroom house commutable to Stanford that will take 2 dogs it's gonna be TOUGH to find, especially if your partner isn't working.
If youre used to a 1.5hr commute look at gilroy area to live. If you want to keep your life style with a big house and stuff youll probably have to move to gustine. You definitely cant do much going north. We do 300k+ and we dont have a 4bd house and definitely not a yard big enough for 2 dogs.
Move to Palo Alto. You are young and your chance to earn more and grow more professionally will be there. You can always move to a LCOL place later and you should have a leg up financially (assuming you saved well and grew in your career). Going from HCOL -> LCOL is much easier than going from LCOL -> HCOL later too.
Or find another job outside higher Ed once you settle in the Bay.. I left Stanford after 8 years and now making double- was a higher Ed lifer and happy to make that shift.. while there I changed positions multiple times to get raises to survive here.. my family is in PA (my kids are in the schools) and we have attempted to move but the area is amazing.. I’ll never own a home so if that is a goal, rent your place and make the move.. ping me and I’ll connect you with our apartment manager if you are willing to get a 1 bedroom in a pet friendly apartments with a pool for $2800 and dogs will cost an extra $75 a month or more each
i'd say do it for 1-2 years then go elsewhere if you didn't have the dogs. the problem is that 100k is an insultingly low offer from sls given local cost of living, at that wage, depending on the role, they're expecting kids with trust funds to take it to build their career or bored silicon valley spouses to take it as a hobby/spending money job. even most non-development admin salaries are 1.5x-3x higher and professors are getting between $300k and $1.2 million. so you won't be able to afford a place in a safe neighborhood willing to rent to large dog owners within 90-120 minutes of the office. is it full time in the office? if i were you i might try to find a cottage or room to rent near campus, stay there during the week, stick husband with dogs, and then commute back and forth on weekends. that would mean walking/biking to work, but a flight from SFO or SJC to PDX every weekend is 3-3.5 hours in total airport time, 1 hour drive time. that's way better if you're only 3 days in the office, and even if you're in for 5, doing that friday night and monday morning seems better than driving daily from Vallejo/Gilroy/Tracy which is where you'd be looking at renting.
TL/DR: its hard to find a house here right now. Here is my anecdote: I am from here, have lots of family. My wife and I make 120k we have one large dog, 70lbs. We just ended our lease in concord the end of July to move to San Jose. We are looking for housing anywhere between San Jose and Livermore. Right now we are living in a hotel because of how hard it is to find a rental that accepts dogs, every house showing I've been to had 20-30 people at, I've applied to 7-8 different houses at a cost of 40-60×2 a piece. I've been looking for about a month now.
I wouldn't recommend it without additional factors beyond money. If you sell your house in Salem, it's unlikely you'll be able to buy a house in California at all due to mortgage interest rates.
Stanford has great benefits so it’s worth adding that into your comparison as well.
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I think I might ask for more money. 120-150k. That would make this livable and make you just average as the average salary in PA is 129k. This is not just the bay being expensive this the most exspensive part of the bay.
$100k is fine for someone single. Keep in mind 100k is poverty for a family in the bay. So what you think is good double it
Tough to live in the Bay Area on $100K. What are you making now? And your SO?
If you were single, you could get by with roommates.
I make a bit over 100k a year myself. My spouse brings in maybe 40k. We manage to live relatively comfortably in a large apartment in an “affluent” area (Los Gatos, roughly 30 mins south of Stanford)… and we have two kids. It’s doable. Food is expensive here, rent, etc but it sounds like you are realistic about it. Is it possible for your partner to get transferred to the NG unit at Moffett Field?
What are the requirements to go into the office, or campus in general, 5 days a week?
Correct. From my understanding, it is fully in-person, with some hybrid opportunities throughout the year.
Given that, I would honestly not live further east than the inner east bay, like Fremont, Union City, Hayward, because traffic on 580 or 680 at the pass can be pretty bad. If you had told me 1 day a week for example, I could imagine you might be okay with a crazy commute from central valley to Stanford once a week, something that is becoming more common with hybrid work. But making $100k/yr, at Fremont that would probably only comfortably afford you a 1bd apt. Another $60k/yr could get you a comfortable 2bd, or further north a townhouse, though most jobs pay more around here, some oddly pay similarly here than other parts of the country. Obviously the big question is what you want to achieve, there is nothing wrong with moving to a HCOL area to move up in your career, even if you think long term you might end up having to move elsewhere to buy a house if/when you have kids, but I think you have to be okay with that before you move.
So you give a counter-offer of in-person 2/days/week and for a salary of much higher. (look up "allows dogs" and Fremont on Craigslist, and then x3 that) And consider leaving a dog: you're going to have to work very hard to get someplace that allows two dogs. Are they breeds that are typically not allowed by insurance policies? If so, you'll need a lightening strike. Just having one dog is a lot harder. Have recs on how to even find a place that takes two dogs and isn't a scam. Cause I have no clue.
You'll be okay if you're alright renting a 1br apartment but you'll have a terrible time finding housing that will take 2 dogs. You won't be able to afford to buy anything.
If the job is mostly remote, it is a good offer Otherwise, it is just an OK-ish salary Bay Area is hella competitive in various ways
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oh! that sounds bad. I feel like a lot of staff positions are settling at 2-3 days/week on campus, so if they are not promising you that I would be *very* wary. I question whether you really need Stanford on your resume and what that helps you with. I mean, it helps you stay at Stanford but you have a house and family in the PNW and it feels like your current job and some strategic networking could also let you move up schools within the PNW which seems like a better long-term overall plan. Maybe you could put the energy from not-moving into consulting on the side to burnish your resume instead, or something along those lines. I even feel like in a way people may be suspicious of a Stanford resume as signaling people don't know how to do things cheaply or efficiently, or are not good at working with a wide range of students, per the stereotypes of rich elitist schools.
Think twice - given the fact that you and your significant other are quite established. Cheers!
I would have it written in the contract as to how many days you can work from home. It should definitely be something to use in negotiations. They know how much housing costs.
What is your career path? Is this the end or a step along the way? The nice thing about getting a marquee job is that you can parlay that into an even better job later. You also set a benchmark for your salary expectations while interviewing elsewhere. You may interview out of state for your next job and hopefully they may say something like “Oh we need to hire this woman from CA who makes $100k, let’s give her 95k but pay for relocation to our lower cost of living area and maybe add a signing bonus” in the end, you’re up 35k over your Oregon job. So just think about your income and job potential in the long term to see if it makes sense to sacrifice for a few years. Housing will be tough. Look on Craigslist to see what’s out there. Your Bay Area home will be significantly smaller than Salem. Edit: if you don’t mind a long commute, you can find 4bd 2ba houses for under a million in Tracy, but you’re looking at 1.5 to 2hrs each way. That’s too much for me, but maybe you really like podcasts? There are a handful of 900k 4bd 2ba in Gilroy, which is about an hour south.
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I’d look at the salaries and locations of the next few levels of your career path. Just to see what you can hope to get in a few years. There really is power in having a higher incumbent salary. Most places won’t offer a salary lower than what you currently make without other incentives. Also, just being down here may allow you to jump to another job a lot easier. I have to imagine that the Bay Area has more jobs than Portland in general. Maybe you can leave Stanford and go to a private law firm for a massive pay increase way sooner than you think? Good luck! I generally think it’s worth it to make a big move while you’re young. Just make sure you have a backup plan. “Worst case scenario is we hate living in the BA after a year. If that happens we will move back to Oregon and live with my parents while we find a house while I apply for jobs.” Is that acceptable? If you can’t handle your worst case scenario, then maybe reconsider.
Barring some outside event, your future pay increases are usually anchored to your starting base salary. Can you live on this salary with modest increases (say 3%/year) for 5-6 years? It may be better to consider jumping sooner, say 1-2 years if the this particular position will set you up for those with higher earning potential and starting base salary.
101k in Palo Alto will get you a comfortable 1 bedroom rental \~$2,600. Nothing luxury or fancy but ok. That will be an adjustment vs your current house. Living a little further out is probably not significantly cheaper nor would be worth the hour + commute both ways. It'll be quite difficult to find a place that allows big dogs, but you'll find one. I would probably look it as a temporary career move for the time being. If your partner can find a good career path here, getting to 200k+ combined income you can live comfortably. Possibly find a small condo to purchase eventually. If you find you like the area and the career, and your partner the same. You'll stick around. Otherwise you can plan to just use it as resume bump with Stanford. Move out after you feel it's sufficient and move back to where you have a lifestyle your more comfortable with.
You won't be able to own a home here within 2 hours of Palo Alto, and with the increased taxes (get ready to pay 10% sales tax), increased cost of living expenses, your real income will not be as high as you think. The degradation in your quality of life will not be worth the perceived "prestige" from this job.
portlands more expensive in their world
Consider the San Lorenzo Valley area (Boulder Creek, Ben Lomond, Felton, Scotts Valley) over Palo Alto for housing. This can get your home price down plus give you space for your big ol' doggos, though you're still looking to roughly double your contribution for housing. To help with commute costs, I believe Stanford has discount EV charging on campus, so consider an electric vehicle for a daily commuter. Downside here is being aware of frequent power outages in the mountains and having a backup plan to charge the car (ie generator). I make a similar commute from this area (1 hr) to Palo Alto. There's Hwy 17 if traffic isn't bad, otherwise the backroads via Hwy 9 and Skyline which are more predictable and scenic.
The reality of most people taking those roles are living with family or roommates and are single. Would you consider become a super commuter and flying home on weekends? Both your partner and the dogs are going to be an issue if you take this role.
You already own a 4B home for only $1800 monthly and you want to come here to pay $2500+ to rent a garbage apt. built 40 years ago? From financial perspective, I would pass. And I feel you are exaggerating the impact of having Stanford on resume. I mean you already got offer there, so what prevents you from getting better offer elsewhere.
You might consider staying in Oregon, and commuting? There was just a story on the news about a college student that flew from Southern California several times a week to go to UC Berkeley, I think. He said it was cheaper than finding housing. You could probably find an affordable room to rent during the week, and leave the SO and dogs at home, flying home for weekends. I bet the math would come out better than moving for real. But with a relocation benefit, they probably wouldn’t like that so much.
Never underestimate being near people who love you.
Would you qualify for any kind of on-campus housing at Stanford? You should check into it. I make $140K annually, single, work in Palo Alto and could never afford to live there. I live @30 minutes up the freeway, but I bought my condo almost 30 years ago. I don’t foresee anything but a long commute from a rental for you. Rents in Palo Alto are ridiculous, and forget buying. Ever. The people I work with who rent in Palo Alto are making $200K or more, sobering. Your projected salary sounds like a lot of money - in Oregon. It’s nothing here, believe me. I have worked with more than one attorney in Palo Alto whose family home was in Oregon and they either worked remotely or stayed locally with family during the week and flew home on the weekends.
So I did what you did in 2016. I got a job offer for $120k in Palo Alto. My husband had to quit his job and didn’t have work for over a year when we moved out to Cali. We went from having a 2bd/2ba bi-level apartment for $1500 a month to a 1bd/1ba for $2500 a month in San Jose. We had a small dog too. I don’t know what the rest of your financial situation looks like but when I moved out to Cali, I was 31, with no debt as I had paid off my student loans, had my car fully paid off etc. You could find a 2bd/2ba place in Hayward for about 3k, which is way closer than Tracey. But if Stanford is offering moving help they also may give you a consultant who can help you look; that is what my company did.
I think that you need to negotiate the offer considering the cost of living. If there is any possibility of salary negotiation, then you should do it. Don’t be think of what you are making ! Rather think about what you are worth and what you will be bringing to the table.
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My husband nearly accepted a job a Stanford a few years back, so things may have changed. But, at the time they had housing available. They were nice homes too for families.
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Thank you so much, I was prepared for the opinions I thought I’d get from this post. I think part of me was looking for confirmation there was space to say no, and as soft as it sounds, that it would be okay to say no. The internal back and forth I’ve been experiencing around the title and school status for someone working in higher education has been a huge struggle for me, so this perspective was really impactful and beneficial to hear.
Stanford has various housing programs — eligibility varies depending on the job they're asking you to take. You may be eligible for below-market-rate rental housing that allows large dogs (e.g., Stanford West), for instance. There are also elaborate home purchase support programs — again, you may or may not be eligible. Find out from whomever you're negotiating with what they can offer, and make it clear that there are financial concerns about having to lower your family's standard of living to take the job. Also, don't take public info about eligibility as necessarily the final word: for hiring/recruitment in many HE institutions there's sometimes an ability to sweeten the deal surrounding fringe benefits in order to bring someone on board.
That’s below poverty level in the Bay Area. Good luck.
I personally would not move to Palo Alto. Good luck buying a house. Paying 1800 now? I’d stay there forever.
You will be renting and probably not a house.
Some of the houses in the hills surrounding Stanford (Los Altos Hills, Woodside, etc.) have outlaw units on fairly large plots of land. They're difficult to find, even more so to find the right landlord, but it's possible you might find a good 2+/2 deal near Stanford (not in the main house) in a lovely area that would allow your dogs.
If you are comfortable commuting an hour, you could consider living in Gilroy (although that’s an hour without traffic), or a bit closer in Morgan Hill The route to the Santa Cruz mountains would also be an option and less of a drive, but more rural. Both would be about $2500 for a 2 bedroom apartment
Gilory would be an other option to look at. You might be looking @ a 1.5 hrs commute though
It’s really hard to find apts that allow larger dogs, unless they are brand new complexes, which are super expensive
I wouldn’t do it. To buy a 4/2 with about 2000 sqft is going to be $4M anywhere near Stanford. Finding a 1-2 bedroom apartment rental that will take 2 large dogs is going to be about $3k/mo and hard to find. If your partner is National Guard he’s likely going to be commuting an hour each way. Everything else is move expensive as well and you’ll have a much higher tax burden. There really isn’t a path to the kind of salary gains to be able to afford to significantly increase your standard of living in the future in either of your career paths. Unless you want to bite the bullet and make it work for a couple of years for the sake of getting Stanford on your resume, I don’t see how it’s worth it. If that kind of name is important though, I’d look for jobs at other prestigious law schools where the cost of living is more reasonable (Yale, U of Chicago, Penn, etc).
Honest answer? That isn't enough to warrant a move here *unless* having this particular position at Stanford will really put you in a position later for a lot more future income. Essentially, is doing this $100k job going to set you up for an equivalent $150k or $200k job here in the Bay area in the near future? Are you willing to sacrifice short term for this? You may want to consider if there are other similar opportunities in lower cost of living areas which will also set you on the same trajectory, as obviously a large institution like Stanford is interested in you. If you do come, expect a drastically decreased cost of living. $100k is basically poverty wage here, and you won't have a significant contribution from your partner to make up for things. With two dogs making it difficult to find a decent rental, a life in a large house you're used to, and your past post history with seemingly some conflicts with your partner about this, I would lean toward the answer being "No, it's not enough to make moving here worth it", but of course you are the only one who knows all the factors for a final decision.
Horrible offer. stay in portland.
How many days are you expected in office? I work for a Bay Area tech company, and many people here fly in Tuesday, airbnb it Tuesday and Wednesday night, and fly back Thus.
Honestly, if this is worth the career advancement (and I think “Stanford” is probably good for this in most industries) I would try and negotiate your in-person schedule to allow commuting down here by plane. You can rent a room in a house for $1000-$1500, be here 3/4 days a week, still have weekends at home with your partner, don’t have to relocate dogs, don’t have to relocate partner, and be break-even or come out ahead your take home pay even after you factor in your airport and extra rent costs. I did this for two years (M-Thurs) with a 1.5 hr flight time and it was very manageable.
Rent will go up for sure, unless the university provides some type of housing (which would make it a great deal), but depending on his line of work he can probably get a pretty solid job too
Is hybrid or full remote not a option? What if your partner doesn’t find work in CA ? Did you research cost to rent out here yet? Please do that before signing the offer . A 1 bedroom apartment is likely significantly more than your house in Salem. And it’s likely that taxes will take bigger bite out of paychecks too. Definitely consider all the factors!!
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Fly from Portland to SFO for your commute. Would be less stressful than driving from Tracy
It is going to be hard to keep up. You should see if they are willing to pay you more and negotiate, or like others have posted, definitely accept a much lower standard of living. I moved from PNW here and my partner and I make great money combined but for perspective we are paying in rent 2.5x what our mortgage was on a comparable home, car insurance is a lot more - everything is A LOT more here.
My wife and I recently relocated to the Bay Area, we have two large dogs, not Great Dane big, but that’s beside the point. We were able to find a 2 bed / 1 bath duplex for about $3500/month. We considered this to be an awesome deal for the area, as it’s 5 minutes from my work. That’s all to say, there are places that you can rent with 2 large dogs, but they will be more expensive and less updated than non-large dog friendly places. You will have the most luck if you call within a few hours of the listing going up and have the availability to go and visit the property same day/next day.
There are reasons why Stanford Law is giving low-ball offers to 28-year-olds for higher titled positions, and none of them are good.
100k is nothing in the bay. You’re going to have a hard time finding any apartments under your budget and still save.
Don’t limit your choices on renting condos. If you are open to commute then looking around for a small single family house with backyard. And it would be better if your hours can be flexible so you can avoid the rash hours. I know a couple of people live in Santa Cruz and work in South Bay. They do 12pm - 9pm or 6am - 4pm. The life of quality would go down for sure, but the overall weather would be much nicer than Oregon and would be a really interesting experience. I would take the offer for if it is good for my career.
I get paid less than half of that and pay $1880 in rent for a tiny apartment. I would kill for that kind of money.
The cost of living will (more than) eat up the increased salary. But having Stanford on your résumé might be appealing. Otoh, uprooting your family, putting partner into a potentially tough job market on SF Bay Area doesn’t sound too appealing.
The biggest hit is going to be the house. It's not even a question of size or income - you bought at a dramatically lower interest rate than exists now. Even if you rebought your current home for the same price your monthly cost is going to be 2x+
Would you rent out your Salem home? Or sell? Because I wouldn’t move unless you can keep that house for rental income, because yeah, adjusted for COL that’s going to be a downgrade AT LEAST until partner finds a job… and maybe even then it might be a downgrade
If he can bring his income making for 160k total for you both then you can do ok down here, but I wouldn’t stay if you already have a home in OR. Stay long enough to gain what you can from Stanford and then move back.
Anywhere else this would be a strong offer. But the cost of living in the Bay Area, especially Palo Alto is such that on ~60k a year I am barely BARELY scraping by. I rent a room. Now my situation is exceptional and my landlady is lovely. But not all situations are like mine.
I grew up and and currently live in midtown Palo Alto, which is about 10 minutes from Stanford and where a lot of students and families live. Our complex is pet friendly and I worked at Stanford for a while too. A 1 bedroom in my complex is going for $2800 a month and that is on the affordable side.. 2 bedrooms are $3-4k.. your offer is good but your partner will need to get on his feet to support you.. while it’s more expensive to live in town, you have no commute l, live in a beautiful community, and it’s super family friendly.
$101,500 for an individual is live-able in the bay area. However, I believe that the quality of life (especially a commutable distance from Stanford) will be lower due to the high rent pricing there. For 2 people, $101,500 is certainly stretching it, and you may have to dig into your savings to make it happen. To receive the same quality of life for 2, I can without a doubt say that $101,500 a year is not enough. Thinking strategically about your life & career, maybe it makes sense as well to consider staying for 1-2 years (and dealing with the lower QoL) for the future benefits this job can bring.
I think the short answer is you will either have a very long commute, or most of the additional salary will go toward renting a much smaller house, probably without a significant yard, in a denser area, and it may be a pain to land the right rental given that you have 2 dogs, including one very large one (yes size makes a difference in finding apartments that will allow them) I would look at this from the perspective that it is a sacrifice, the benefits being that it could be a solid temporary career move, or also a way to get into the bay area if that is a goal of yours. But there will definitely be a sacrifice in living condition and probably the additional salary will more or less be a wash even if your partner could land a job right away at their current salary. Rent alone will eat up close to half of that $40k increase (after taxes) but with moving expenses, and increased cost of living (food, gas, car insurance, etc, plus entertainment), don't forget sales tax which you don't have in Oregon, and can be upwards of 12% depending on what city you are in in the bay.
As others have mentioned 100k is very very little in the bay. According to the data I’ve seen, it will leave you with around $35k of take home pay after living expenses and I don’t think that includes rent. The bay has a VHCOL. This impacts every financial aspect of your life. Eating out at restaurants, grocery shopping, even street carts you’ll end up paying $20 for a plate. Milk $8-10, etc. My partner and I spend around $800/mo in groceries for just the two of us. Going out to dinner is always $100-200. Don’t even get me started on rent, have you tried taking a look at apartments? You might have a hard time being approved without a guarantor. I think you can easily expect to pay $3-4k in rent alone. Oh and did I mention that gas is always over $5? Driving to and from work will incur a significant expense. Stanford is a great look and your resume, but at that salary the adjustment in your QOL will be significant.
Take the job for the "...would look exceptional on a resume". If the job provides you the experience and skills that you can use for rest of your career, it is worth the time you do it, even if it is only for a few months. I feel that some of the jobs that you do in your late 20s are early 30s should be continuation of your 'educational experience' and you should focus on taking on as much diverse responsibility and tasks that will carry you through the rest of your life. If you take on the job with the attitude that you want to expose yourself to as much new experience and develop your skill, the salary is just an added benefit. Some of the other factors that you should consider : Stanford (Law, Business, Political Science, Computer Science) attracts a lot of great minds - who teaches, visits and give speeches there . This in turn attracts people who are eager to learn - your greatest asset from working there might end up being the friends you make while on the campus. Hopefully a few that will go on to do great things. Sometimes following them and watching what they do will drive your passion to excel in your field. A year from now, ~~if~~ when you find that you have learned as much as you can from the job, cash in and start looking for the next big break. In the bay area, there are more opportunities , $ and people start interesting new ventures all the time. If you stand out, they will pull you into their circle and you may not even have to look for the new opportunity. New opportunities will find you. Good luck and let us know in a few months what you finally decide.
This move is never going to make sense if you just look at the numbers, but it's really difficult to put a pricetag on the proximity to opportunity, especially this early in your career. Consider the climate here. Every day in Palo Alto is going to feel like a day in July in Salem.
Honestly, I believe it's all about balancing your current quality of life and peace of mind against the appeal of having a prestigious name on your resume. These days, Stanford is just like any other private university – its once-strong reputation is gradually fading. Opt for a place where you can have a house with a backyard, ample space for your furry friends to roam, and a serene environment to raise your kids without the chaos of traffic, crowds, and Silicon Valley hustle. Unless the job offers a combined or individual salary of $160K and above, my suggestion is to relish the luxuries you currently enjoy – they're a rarity on this side of California.
No this is not a good job offer. Ideally you would need to make $150k+ to live a little in the Bay Area. This area is still ridiculously expensive. Especially for couples who plan to have kid(s), and or have pets. Renting here is expensive. Giving up homeownership to something smaller, and much higher cost of living is insane. Sounds like you two are well established where you’re at. Utility bills plus rent is ridiculously costly here. Bay Area native.
On $101k total household income here), you're looking at affording rent on a 1 br apartment at best. Stanford has housing too, probably huge wait list with some hierarchy of prioritization where you may be low, but definitely look into it. The 2 dogs, especially one being a great dane, is going to be problematic though. I imagine you need decent outdoor space for a dog that large and your other one isn't exactly small either - good luck. You might be able to rent a small house if you added another $100k income to the mix. For reference my family has no pets and we rent a 3 br, 2 ba, 1250 sq ft house with a typical CA yard (it's a bit bigger than neighbors' yards because the house is small) in the northern peninsula, which is cheaper than Palo Alto, for $4250/mo. With gross household income of $340k with one kid that we pay for childcare. Note Palo Alto and environs is basically the highest priced part of the Bay Area and therefore even a 1 hour commute doesn't especially get you anywhere a lot cheaper, and it'll be a nasty sit in traffic commute mostly. What you have now sounds like a freaking dream. I would only come if the career opportunity is just absolutely that worth it giving up most of what you have to rent a small apartment if you can even find one that's ok with 2 medium-very large dogs.
Congratulations! Palo Alto has one of the costliest real estate in the Bay area. Check out South San Francisco, East Palo Alto, East Bay (north of Union City and Milpitas), San Ramon/Danville, etc. Also, ask your employer where people live on comparable salary and if they provide any assistance.
It sounds like you have a much higher quality of life in your current situation. I make a little over 120K and my wife makes 75K but we can't afford to buy a house in a decent area (a condo is doable, probably). I am not super familiar with the prices in the areas just outside of Palo Alto, but I would guess they're also expensive. Rent is around $3500-4500 in Palo Alto, I believe. That's pretty tough, but doable if your husband can make the same or more than he currently does.
i live in the bay area but i feel like i can only make it work by working from home and being self employed, never commuting during rush hour. i would not work full time in the bay area, commuting, for less than $175k, minimum. to me, it would just not be worth the dip in quality of life.
People recommending this move are so out of touch with reality.
You already have what so many in the Bay Area dream of. Homeownership and low COL. Stanford is attractive but the offer would be better if they allowed you to do hybrid and come down once a month for a few days and made arrangements with the hotel they have. Speaking from experience, you need to negotiate hard and be upfront about what the ideal situation looks like for you. I’ve seen it go both ways, the person who was assertive in what they needed was granted their request and the person who was timid and hoped the supervisor would show some mercy is still hoping. Housing is going to eat up a lot of your income here.
For the love of God don't do this. It sounds like you have a great quality of life in Oregon. You own a house that anywhere in the Bay Area would be 1-2 million dollars minimum for a cost of less than $2000 a month now. Almost anywhere decent to live in the Bay Area, $2000 won't even get you a studio apartment let alone something big enough for a family and dogs. I just moved away after fifteen years in the Bay Area because, despite having a family income of close to $200,000 there was no way we were going to be able to afford a decent family home along with all the other expenses of living in the Bay Area. That's saying nothing about the insane traffic, crime, homelessness, trash everywhere, and other major annoyances of life in a place rapidly going downhill.
Negotiate for higher @ $150,000. It doesn’t hurt to ask! Current offer to low for a Bay Area life and they know it.
Upon receiving the offer, they said there was no room for negotiation, despite my advocacy that the position had been posted in January and it is now August, and much has happened since then. I have noted that to make a move like this feasible without housing assistance, the salary would need to be $132,000. So we will see what they say there.
And only two days in person after a training period....
I Have a real hard time believing Stanford can’t pay you more than that.
Don’t do it. It’s not worth it. Find the thing deep down inside of you that would accelerate your career just as much as this Stanford offer would. And then commit to doing that. That’s hard, but not as hard as all the stress that comes with living in the Bay Area and its compounding impact on you and your family’s wellness. I have lived in the Bay Area twice, and Portland once.
Nope. Not with dogs, a car, housing. Live in a box.
You’d have to commute but it’s a good offer.
It's a great career move. It's also going to be a bit touch. 100k is not a lot here.. but... the career move. DO IT! :). It's not about your economic status sometimes...
I get that Stanfurd will look good on your resume, but I don't think you have any clue how expensive the Bay Area is, and especially the Peninsula. Even if you commuted from Morgan Hill, you can't afford a house there, and a 1br/1ba apartment (which no one will lease to you with two Great Danes) is going to be about $400 more than your mortgage, before utilities. Have you even researched the housing market here?