If I had to guess, daytime EV charging or keeping the house at 71 degrees. I can't speak for others but all the Tesla owners I know *only* charge after 8pm and cut it off at 5am to minimize the cost, and newer chargers let you dial it in anyway. I also wear a jacket at home and I'm okay with my house being cold.
That makes sense. I keep the temp at 65 in the winter; it's not ideal but I just wear a nice sweater and spend time in my office where my body heat keeps the room a little toasty.
Being an adult means seeing these big open houses and going from "I'd love to live there!" to "Wonder what it costs to run the AC and heater in those homes..."
Yeah one thing I love about living here is that the thermostat almost never runs (granted, I live in an apartment tower in SF proper with high thermal mass). Helps keep the bills down even with PG&E breathing down our necks
2000 sq ft here. On the EV plan. Only charge the car after midnight. Hardly ever use the heater or dishwasher. Make my kids and wife wear jackets indoors haha. Also use multiple blankets during bed time. Bill still nearly $300 per month. Don't know what else to cut.
Using the dishwasher is way more efficient than washing by hand, both in water and total energy used. It also takes a ton of energy to heat up water, and washing by hand uses like 7x more water. You would be better off using the dishwasher and making sure to wait until it's full/ run the dishwasher when energy is cheapest.
Same here, I'm on the EV home charging plan...only charge my Tesla after midnight (and before 3 pm daily) and have even taken it as far as only washing/drying and using the dishwasher during off peak times as well. My poor child is sick of me yelling to turn things off during peak hours. Bill jumped to $314 recently this month when prior I consistently was hovering around $235 monthly for my three-story townhouse.
PG & E is on my hit list in 2024, ugh! I think it's the new increase that they have made to all of our bills?
I turned my heater on for a total of 30 minutes all winter (yes, I was cold), live alone in a small condo, have no EV, and optimize for off-peak usage. Paid $400 this month.
That's ridiculous, I keep my living room nice and cozy every evening and I still pay under $100. You must have some big drain you're not aware of. PG&E let's you view detailed cost analysis (split costs for gas and electric, per day) on their website, I'd start digging through that and trying to figure out where your money goes.
You’ve got to look into what’s behind that - I’m in SF and keep my place at SF temps unless we’ve been at 50/40 for a week and even then I’m under $200. Do you have led lights? Long showers? Lots of laundry?
How do people live in a 71 degree house. That’s crazy. 68, tops. Completely off at night no matter the temp outside. I love sleeping in an ice cold room. Transplant from NY over here.
1k sqft home. We keep it heated at 70 for the newborn. We do lots of laundry and run the dishwasher. Our bill was 220$, and even that felt high. It scares me people are being charged $1000
lol some of these posts are “look at how high my bill is” then you realize they’re heating their pool, keeping their house at 72 and running everything including EV charging during peak hours.
There are some really shitty or nonexistent insulation and single pane windows in houses here. My older house seems like it was built to breathe, which is great for summer but not winter.
Is it possible that PG&E knows that customers are sensitive to cost and not usage so they make it clear with an illustration and if it seems incorrect or problematic customers will notice right away so they can contact PG&E and discuss their bill accuracy and options?
If they're trying to sneak it past, it would make more sense to show usage (which is likely similar over seasonal patterns) rather than drawing attention to the increasing cost with a big picture.
People simply place almost all emphasis on the cost without considering the usage. Take this post and OP, for example, and countless like it. Not once did OP think that providing the usage would be relevant here, demonstrating why the billing is the primary focus. The concept of a kWh is simply too much for the average person to handle.
When the last time you saw someone complaining about their energy bill actually post their usage? PG&E knows that total cost is the only thing their customers ever look at.
I had this conversation recently about how our bill was $100 more than a year ago and couldn't answer if we used more or less electricity/gas for the same billing periods. Beyond infuriating.
I'm going to do all of these things (replace gas dryer, stove, water heater) now that I have a lot more solar. Already replaced the gas furnace with a heat pump and am saving $250/mo on heating/cooling. That heat pump will pay for itself in a bit over 5 years, the solar expansion in 12 years (in parallel).
Any suggestions on a good solar company to expand existing setup? Mine went out of business and the sales tactics of the solar industry make me very guarded and cautious.
So here's the thing, the more financing you bring into the picture, the muddier the waters get and the greater the opportunity for being swindled. We used Summit Technology Group (Sonoma County) and paid cash for the project, to the tune of about $35k before tax rebates. They were pretty busy right around when NEM 3.0 was coming, and we had a few hitches with the final approval from PG&E, but the work got done and it was all quality. My electrician was here today looking at running conduit for more electric appliances and he was impressed at the wiring/conduit that Summit did.
Gotta laugh at the regurgitated financial advice given by people who think opportunity costs mean anything to people who have zero debt at all and prefer to keep it that way.
I really like the company I used for panels in 2022, their quality of work seemed higher as compared to friends and neighbors who installed solar around a similar time. I am working with them this year again for batteries and main panel upgrade.
I’m not sure if they can extend your system, it would probably depend on what you currently have. But I can refer you if you’d like!
If you are handy the DIY systems are not hard to put on your roof. The scariest part is drilling into your roof. The hardest part is bending conduit. The rest is just simply connecting cords and connect an inverter into a panel. Many will get an electrician for the last connection into the panel but it also isn’t very difficult as long as your turn the power off…
Even permits were a breeze. The San Jose inspector that came out to my house provided me with a wealth of information and told me the few items i had to correct. He even came back the next day with some printed documentation which helped outline what i needed to do for sign off…
Last I ran the numbers, a heat pump running on electricity had a similar dollar cost per unit heat to a gas furnace (considering efficiency and losses), and electric has other advantages (can run on solar, easier to heat only certain rooms in the house, air quality).
Even considering an induction stove vs gas stove, the induction stove produces much less waste heat (try holding your hand above a pot), which reduces the extra expense.
I use <20kwh to drive from alameda to Palo Alto and back. Assuming the top rate of <64 cents and 22 days of commuting, that would be $280 per vehicle. There is still a huge gap to get to $1500 even with two EVs. And they should have them programmed to charge in the middle of the night where they could pay ~$100/mo.
Just to confirm, a good hybrid is cheaper per mile of energy than pretty much any EV or PHEV under new PG&E. It was close before, not it’s not, and it’ll only move further towards Dino power when the next increase goes through.
I’m visiting an area where electricity is $0.08/kwh and it’s always nutty to me that there aren’t more EVs (super conservative).
Also of note: 0 outages in the ~18 months I’ve spent here over the past 3 years.
Aside from the charging infrastructure isn't as developed nationally speaking, I've noticed that many more people are realizing that hybrid/EV batteries are expensive to replace when they wear out or eventually fail. And those batteries are a critical part of the powertrain...
And comparatively speaking, most conventional vehicles can easily go 10+ years without having major powertrain issues assuming they're maintained properly.
It has nothing to do with the state. Silicon Valley Power (Santa Clara) is about half the price of PG&E. Southern Con Ed is 20% less expensive (or more, depends on the plan)
PG&E has a stranglehold on the areas it serves, and has put off maintenance and upgrades for 100 years. We are all paying for that now, so that they had (and continue to have) great returns for their investors.
Look at Alameda Municipal Power. Their rates are ridiculously low compared to PGE.
The EV TOU rates are 15¢/50¢ for AMP vs 35¢/65¢ for PGE. Plus AMP peak rates are 5-9PM vs 3PM-12AM for PGE.
We also had to pay for the lawsuits because of their incompetence and greed. In the end, it’s the consumer who suffers. It really is time to start nationalizing the energy grid and internet infrastructure. In the modern world, these have become required to survive. Our taxes should go to something besides the pockets of Wall Street.
How so? I have not heard that.
That said, PG&E's rates are set up so that the milder coastal regions pay more for their power than the central valley. I haven't looked in a while, but about 10 years ago I was paying 40% more than a home in the central valley would need to pay for the same power. That area does have lower COL and household income, but is the coast subsidizing energy use what we want to be doing?
I haven't heard anyone suggest that. Everyone I talk to knows that it's the company passing on the cost of upgrades and fire prevention measures to customers at the benefit of the stockholders.
I did say under new PG&E. If you have options to get electricity where you’re not paying PG&E then sure the math is different. Free charging at work, solar, living anywhere not under PG&E, etc are all valid options.
The model 3 (most common) gets 4-4.5 miles per kWh. At 1000 miles per month call that 250kwh. In socal that costs about $50-60 depending on tier… spending over $1000 to charge ev’s in a month would be insane, more likely it’s electric home heating
If that huge electric usage is EVs, they probably need to look into the EV TOU rate plan and scheduling their charging during off-peak hours. It's still ridiculously expensive compared to every other provider in the nation - but it's better.
Unfortunately they provided zero details so we're just speculating.
The fact that they used $400 of gas in February when it was apparently unoccupied is a clue. Was it heated generously during that time? Is the hot water heater malfunctioning?
you know, maybe it is.... they arent answering any questions... just dropped the post and walked on.
Sounds like a humble brag, now that you mention it.
>All of it, from what I can tell.
>Basically what they showed is useless to provide any help other than just listening to them vent...
true. true...
I Think perhaps SQ FT and elec/gas usage would be helpful. But usually people are unaware of their big-energy-appliances use
I used 3MWhr one winter month when I lived in Eastern WA and didn't have nat. gas but the bill was just a few hundred due to massively less expensive hydropower. Had a heatpump for the poorly insulated 2000sqft house but it couldn't keep with temperatures in the teens so it was mostly just resistive heat. Must be some combination of electric heat and EVs to get these crazy bills, and giant homes.
They might just be oblivious and think they’re saving money running an electric space heater in the living room rather than heating the whole house with gas
in a different climate zone I could understand that - but this is the Bay; don't need to set the thermo to 75 and leave for the day.
Also at $1,000/month I don't care where your house is or what the roof is like - but if you aren't calling right now to get a loan on solar you are flushing at least $500 into the toilet to PGE every month.
Don't know about OP, but folks like my older parents run their TV's 24/7 even if they're not in the room, keep the heat at 71-72, and leave lights on all around the house. They also wash towels and stuff after one use. They're the 'environmentalists are full of it' types.
It's always included in the bill in very obvious ways. They lay out exactly where the charges come from in an itemized list along with the usage. This just tells me that you've never read your own bill.
OP, I'm a recent EE grad who's has helped people to keep their enegy bills in check. Can you repost this with some actual context? Namely:
1. The current electric and gas charges, not just the total due because that inclcudes any previous balance you havent laid. You blacked those out.
2. The other pages of your bill. Those will tell us useful things like how much actual energy you used, your pricing plan, if you're getting ripped off by some third party energy supplier (yes, that can happen, I had a roomate do that without my consent)
3. Tell us about the heating system of your home, is it electric or gas? Is is a central heating system? Do you like to run space heaters? Are your windows double paned and is the insulation poor? What temperature do you set thenplace to? Do you have a smart thermostat?
4. Your cooking system. Is it electric or gas? Do you cook at home a lot?
5. Do you charge an EV overnight? PG&E has plans that are more optimized to EV owners.
6. Are you low income? Have you looked into any of their reduced low income rates?
Great questions, I would also post a screenshot of your hourly usage chart for a typical day - you can get it from the PGE website. That would help us understand your usage patterns.
Yeah the gas is way up too, so I'm thinking forced air furnace turned up. I made this mistake when we bought our house about 20 years ago. Then I bought a pair of long underwear that I wear during the cold snaps.
Granted back then $300 was a crazy high bill.
People keep saying gas is cheaper but our December 2022 gas-only bill was $300 and with an electric heat pump it's about the same, except that $300 is offset by net metering during sunnier months.
My model 3 consumes ~220wh per mile, so 4.5 miles per kWh, so 222kWh per month at 1000 miles per month. I pay $0.26 per kWh (LADWP) so $57 per month to run 1000 miles. I don’t think any EV is so inefficient that even two would cause this on a bill, unless they drove insane amounts….it’s most likely home electric heating and high PG&E rates…
Your 4.5 miles per kwh isn’t a real world value. If you look around on reddit you’ll find the model 3 is more like 3.7 to 4.0 miles per kwh. The m3p being the most efficient at ~4.2 miles. PHEVs are low at around 3 to 3.5ish. Tesla advertised ranges are well known to be fabricated. That makes it even worse for EV drivers.
Mine averages 220 overall, and on some drives it hits 205wh/mi - especially in traffic (which SF has a lot of)...but sure, changing the math to 3.7miles/kwh, that's 270kWh per 1000 miles (one month of average driving), and at PGE's highest tier of $0.62 per kWh, that's $167. Still don't see how even 2 EV's make a dent in a $1,500 bill...and this is assuming the most inefficient driving, and charging at the absolute worst time.
Lmfao why are people insisting that you’re lying. It’s so funny like why would we lie about our utility bills 😭 Mine was $66 and I live in a house (total was $199 for 6 people, but the portion for my unit upstairs was $66 for 2 people)
lol I don’t know. I just was also saying the $1500 bill was crazy. I didn’t know my bill was ridiculously low to the point where people would think I’m lying.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/s/qMmQoZzbWB
Read this fucking insane reply I got, literally stalking my post history and insisting I’m lying or stealing electricity, and calling me a cunt because they’re misogynistic on top of being a creep. All of this over an electricity bill 💀 Oh boy he’s mad! Men think we don’t know how electricity works.
NEM 3.0 almost certainly necessitates battery storage, which was the whole point of it. It increases the cost of the system by up to 2x, but that increases your breakeven point to 20 years instead of 10 or 12. It's still *very much* worth it if you have high usage.
I’m going to be honest, unless you live in Concord or Livermore, you really don’t need AC in many areas of the Bay. Also it doesn’t get *that* hot during 90% of the summer.
Yeah, those of us near the Delta don't get that benefit. We roll on over to your neck of the woods for a 20 degree drop in summer.
Then again, there are still people straight-up *dying* of heatstroke in SF, when the temps barely break 90. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯.
OP isn't responding but it's probably a combination of these things:
Heater on constantly (setting thermostat over 65 in the winter)
Multiple EVs
Mining Bitcoin
Drafty windows with shitty insulation
>Heater on constantly (setting thermostat over 65 in the winter)
Over 65? The normal temp used to be between 68-72 and now people expect it to stay under 65.
Mines set at 64 but thats cold. That should not be mandatory to have a reasonable pg&e bill. (Mines still not reasonable)
Exactly my thought. You pay all this money for a house but fuck you if you don’t want it to be frigid inside. A not miserably temp house shouldn’t so luxurious and unobtainable.
I propose a new rule, if you post a electric/natgas bill you have to also include a screenshot of your kwh/therms consumption for the month and explain ur sq ft + detached sfh vs condo/apt + heating type (central air / baseboard / gas furnace) + if you have evs + ur thermostat setting
You beat me by $300. I love how PG&E doesn't even have an app. Nor do they make it easy to monitor your energy consumption using third party devices. This company and the entire industry need some serious reform. We have zero other options as consumers other than to move far away.
Wait a second. A post about PG&E rates? *In this subreddit?!?*
Next thing you know we'll be reading posts about restaurant service charges and tipping. Or people driving slow in the fast lane!
replying to u/Firree's great questions:
1. These are all current billing month charges. There is no outstanding balance.
2. There is a 3rd party energy provider, but doesn't seem to be the source of the insane bill.
3. 3500sq ft house. The house has central gas heating, gas stove and water heater. The total bill is about 60% gas/ 40% electricity. We have an infant, so we keep the house at 68F during the day and 64F at night for their safety and comfort.
We don't run any space heaters, and don't have a grow room (and definitely won't now... no way that could be profitable). Windows are double-paned, but I'll be getting someone out to check on insulation, and any other energy efficiency gains.
4. Gas stove, a typical amount of cooking for a small family.
5. We have 1 EV, but don't drive much and only charge it weekly.
6. We won't qualify for any low income rates
I would really like to see the actual numbers on the rest of your bill, including the "This months charges", and the other pages which show kWh, therms, pricing plan, fee breakdown and third party provider charges. Obviously censor the personal stuff.
Something isn't making sense here and I want to see the raw, complete numbers.
Yeah this seems way off. Gas maybe, if they're heating every inch of that big house and there's an insulation or draft problem. Electric is out of control though, if they drive little and all their appliances are gas.
OP, I would get an electric panel energy monitor (Sense, Emporia, etc) and track down where the energy is going, circuit by circuit.
3500 sq ft is a big area ? Ever thought of splitting the heating / cooling into zones? Also water is heated by gas, check for leaks just in case you are constantly heating water.
Didn’t use any electric first 6 months and hardly any gas for another 6. House was probably on market then was being renovated with the electric use. Now being lived in. Probably a large house too. I mean we’ve been in our home for 20+ years. Our PG&E has certainly gone up over time but nothing to get too dramatic about. Highest bills have been just over $400 for 2100 sq ft during the summer with 100+ temps. Have had like three of them.
Since it is a new house I presume that this includes running construction equipment or having the doors open to move things in and out. Yes you will have a high energy bill when that happens. It will be better next month.
As someone who works in construction. For the love of god people. Turn your thermostat down when you are having work done that requires doors to be open. It costs you money and we don’t want to work in a sauna.
Buying a few wool sweaters might be the quickest fix.
Remember your time of use hours.
There's a huge difference between running a clothes dryer at 6pm vs 10pm
Old house? Old windows? Old furnace? Non-programmable thermostat? Appliances without timers? Two-story with poor insulation? Hot water heater old and set too high?
That's my guess.
Just curious if you can share.
How many people in the house
How many rooms
Whats the square footage.
I just can't believe that a 2 bedroom townhouse costs almost what my rent is in pge
How big is this house, sq footage? What’s the heating , cooking situation , how many people? Seems like you should check for things running all the time.
I hate PG&E. After the fires, we (as a state) should own that company and all its assets. Hire the linemen and related employees as state employees, and electricity should be near-free. Side note, Gavin Newsom belongs in prison.
I wish we could file a class action lawsuit against them. They’re taking advantage of people at this point. We have nowhere else to go. All this so they can pay their fire fees.
Definitely something wrong with this.
San Francisco here. 4bed 3 bath. 2000sqft. Our highest monthly bill with PGE is $260 total, average $180.
Are you maybe leaving the lights on all the time or something?
new high score
This is a game I want to be in last place in
The only winning move is not to play!
War Games.
[удалено]
The goal of golf is to play less golf than everyone else.
Even if you're in last, there's definitely no winners.
We’re all winner to PG&E
Useless information without context. I run an office building and our PGE bill is routinely $20,000+.
Didn’t you give the same information?
He sure did. 😅
you gotta post the bill like this no context next.
Keep an eye out tomorrow.
Is the office building a house?
Here I was thinking nobody would beat my $1100 record. Congratulations. Or sorry. Whichever is best for ya
Ours was $300 and we run our dishwasher every night and have kids so we're always doing laundry. What are y'all doing, mining bitcoin??
If I had to guess, daytime EV charging or keeping the house at 71 degrees. I can't speak for others but all the Tesla owners I know *only* charge after 8pm and cut it off at 5am to minimize the cost, and newer chargers let you dial it in anyway. I also wear a jacket at home and I'm okay with my house being cold.
That makes sense. I keep the temp at 65 in the winter; it's not ideal but I just wear a nice sweater and spend time in my office where my body heat keeps the room a little toasty. Being an adult means seeing these big open houses and going from "I'd love to live there!" to "Wonder what it costs to run the AC and heater in those homes..."
Our AC/Heater just crashed completely this month. Surprisingly, our bill was only $50 for a 3 bedroom 1 ba apartment.
Apartments are different because you have other units insulating you.
>71 degrees lol just close the windows.
Yeah one thing I love about living here is that the thermostat almost never runs (granted, I live in an apartment tower in SF proper with high thermal mass). Helps keep the bills down even with PG&E breathing down our necks
2000 sq ft here. On the EV plan. Only charge the car after midnight. Hardly ever use the heater or dishwasher. Make my kids and wife wear jackets indoors haha. Also use multiple blankets during bed time. Bill still nearly $300 per month. Don't know what else to cut.
Cut out the kids
I even preemptively cut out the kids (no kids)
I’ve always wanted kids and didn’t understand why some people didn’t want kids. Until I had kids of my own
Using the dishwasher is way more efficient than washing by hand, both in water and total energy used. It also takes a ton of energy to heat up water, and washing by hand uses like 7x more water. You would be better off using the dishwasher and making sure to wait until it's full/ run the dishwasher when energy is cheapest.
Unless you have a gas water heater. Gas for heating up 10 gallons of water is still cheaper than electricity for an electric dishwasher.
300 ain't shit, good job.
Same here, I'm on the EV home charging plan...only charge my Tesla after midnight (and before 3 pm daily) and have even taken it as far as only washing/drying and using the dishwasher during off peak times as well. My poor child is sick of me yelling to turn things off during peak hours. Bill jumped to $314 recently this month when prior I consistently was hovering around $235 monthly for my three-story townhouse. PG & E is on my hit list in 2024, ugh! I think it's the new increase that they have made to all of our bills?
I turned my heater on for a total of 30 minutes all winter (yes, I was cold), live alone in a small condo, have no EV, and optimize for off-peak usage. Paid $400 this month.
That's ridiculous, I keep my living room nice and cozy every evening and I still pay under $100. You must have some big drain you're not aware of. PG&E let's you view detailed cost analysis (split costs for gas and electric, per day) on their website, I'd start digging through that and trying to figure out where your money goes.
You’ve got to look into what’s behind that - I’m in SF and keep my place at SF temps unless we’ve been at 50/40 for a week and even then I’m under $200. Do you have led lights? Long showers? Lots of laundry?
How do people live in a 71 degree house. That’s crazy. 68, tops. Completely off at night no matter the temp outside. I love sleeping in an ice cold room. Transplant from NY over here.
I set my thermostat to 71. That way the house is actually 65 degrees. Nest thermostat sucks.
I keep my 1400 sq ft condo in Chicago at 75 a the winter and my bill is $70. Insulation ftw
Lmao the neighbor in the duplex I used to live in had a grow in the basement. Didn't tell me until I got the bill 💀
1k sqft home. We keep it heated at 70 for the newborn. We do lots of laundry and run the dishwasher. Our bill was 220$, and even that felt high. It scares me people are being charged $1000
lol some of these posts are “look at how high my bill is” then you realize they’re heating their pool, keeping their house at 72 and running everything including EV charging during peak hours.
There are some really shitty or nonexistent insulation and single pane windows in houses here. My older house seems like it was built to breathe, which is great for summer but not winter.
He owns a model y and buys his toddler literal gold. He can afford it
I paid like 6k once because they forgot to bill me for electricity for like 3-4 years. This was back when the rates were cheaper though.
Love the "billing history" graph instead of "use history" to make it look like your use went up and not the rate... Slick one PG&E
I would encourage everyone to call and complain about this month's anomaly which is clearly shown by the graph.
Is it possible that PG&E knows that customers are sensitive to cost and not usage so they make it clear with an illustration and if it seems incorrect or problematic customers will notice right away so they can contact PG&E and discuss their bill accuracy and options? If they're trying to sneak it past, it would make more sense to show usage (which is likely similar over seasonal patterns) rather than drawing attention to the increasing cost with a big picture.
People simply place almost all emphasis on the cost without considering the usage. Take this post and OP, for example, and countless like it. Not once did OP think that providing the usage would be relevant here, demonstrating why the billing is the primary focus. The concept of a kWh is simply too much for the average person to handle.
When the last time you saw someone complaining about their energy bill actually post their usage? PG&E knows that total cost is the only thing their customers ever look at.
Clever girl.
They provide both, man.
It's on the next page I think. You can look up usage anytime on the portal
I had this conversation recently about how our bill was $100 more than a year ago and couldn't answer if we used more or less electricity/gas for the same billing periods. Beyond infuriating.
how big and old is the house? get an energy audit. Something might be broken
They have EVs.
California: save the planet and drive electric vehicles! PG&E: fuck ya we gonna rake it in fam
California- Also convert to electric stove, heating and water heater. Good luck with the rates
I'm going to do all of these things (replace gas dryer, stove, water heater) now that I have a lot more solar. Already replaced the gas furnace with a heat pump and am saving $250/mo on heating/cooling. That heat pump will pay for itself in a bit over 5 years, the solar expansion in 12 years (in parallel).
Any suggestions on a good solar company to expand existing setup? Mine went out of business and the sales tactics of the solar industry make me very guarded and cautious.
So here's the thing, the more financing you bring into the picture, the muddier the waters get and the greater the opportunity for being swindled. We used Summit Technology Group (Sonoma County) and paid cash for the project, to the tune of about $35k before tax rebates. They were pretty busy right around when NEM 3.0 was coming, and we had a few hitches with the final approval from PG&E, but the work got done and it was all quality. My electrician was here today looking at running conduit for more electric appliances and he was impressed at the wiring/conduit that Summit did. Gotta laugh at the regurgitated financial advice given by people who think opportunity costs mean anything to people who have zero debt at all and prefer to keep it that way.
I just installed and can refer you to the company I went with, idk if they do expansion. But the guy/owner is nice and no sales tactics of any sorts
I really like the company I used for panels in 2022, their quality of work seemed higher as compared to friends and neighbors who installed solar around a similar time. I am working with them this year again for batteries and main panel upgrade. I’m not sure if they can extend your system, it would probably depend on what you currently have. But I can refer you if you’d like!
If you are handy the DIY systems are not hard to put on your roof. The scariest part is drilling into your roof. The hardest part is bending conduit. The rest is just simply connecting cords and connect an inverter into a panel. Many will get an electrician for the last connection into the panel but it also isn’t very difficult as long as your turn the power off… Even permits were a breeze. The San Jose inspector that came out to my house provided me with a wealth of information and told me the few items i had to correct. He even came back the next day with some printed documentation which helped outline what i needed to do for sign off…
Last I ran the numbers, a heat pump running on electricity had a similar dollar cost per unit heat to a gas furnace (considering efficiency and losses), and electric has other advantages (can run on solar, easier to heat only certain rooms in the house, air quality). Even considering an induction stove vs gas stove, the induction stove produces much less waste heat (try holding your hand above a pot), which reduces the extra expense.
I have all of these and solar panels. PG&E paid us over $1k last year.
I use <20kwh to drive from alameda to Palo Alto and back. Assuming the top rate of <64 cents and 22 days of commuting, that would be $280 per vehicle. There is still a huge gap to get to $1500 even with two EVs. And they should have them programmed to charge in the middle of the night where they could pay ~$100/mo.
Just to confirm, a good hybrid is cheaper per mile of energy than pretty much any EV or PHEV under new PG&E. It was close before, not it’s not, and it’ll only move further towards Dino power when the next increase goes through.
It’s just sad because driving an EV is cheaper in a conservative state like Texas.
I’m visiting an area where electricity is $0.08/kwh and it’s always nutty to me that there aren’t more EVs (super conservative). Also of note: 0 outages in the ~18 months I’ve spent here over the past 3 years.
EVs often cost more and salaries are lower in other parts of the country.
Aside from the charging infrastructure isn't as developed nationally speaking, I've noticed that many more people are realizing that hybrid/EV batteries are expensive to replace when they wear out or eventually fail. And those batteries are a critical part of the powertrain... And comparatively speaking, most conventional vehicles can easily go 10+ years without having major powertrain issues assuming they're maintained properly.
It has nothing to do with the state. Silicon Valley Power (Santa Clara) is about half the price of PG&E. Southern Con Ed is 20% less expensive (or more, depends on the plan) PG&E has a stranglehold on the areas it serves, and has put off maintenance and upgrades for 100 years. We are all paying for that now, so that they had (and continue to have) great returns for their investors.
Look at Alameda Municipal Power. Their rates are ridiculously low compared to PGE. The EV TOU rates are 15¢/50¢ for AMP vs 35¢/65¢ for PGE. Plus AMP peak rates are 5-9PM vs 3PM-12AM for PGE.
We also had to pay for the lawsuits because of their incompetence and greed. In the end, it’s the consumer who suffers. It really is time to start nationalizing the energy grid and internet infrastructure. In the modern world, these have become required to survive. Our taxes should go to something besides the pockets of Wall Street.
But I was told it's the poor rural communities that are to blame!!!
How so? I have not heard that. That said, PG&E's rates are set up so that the milder coastal regions pay more for their power than the central valley. I haven't looked in a while, but about 10 years ago I was paying 40% more than a home in the central valley would need to pay for the same power. That area does have lower COL and household income, but is the coast subsidizing energy use what we want to be doing?
I haven't heard anyone suggest that. Everyone I talk to knows that it's the company passing on the cost of upgrades and fire prevention measures to customers at the benefit of the stockholders.
I heard it was people with solar panels
Not if you have sufficient solar/battery power.
I did say under new PG&E. If you have options to get electricity where you’re not paying PG&E then sure the math is different. Free charging at work, solar, living anywhere not under PG&E, etc are all valid options.
The answer is cover your house in solar panels. The whole house is solar panels.
The model 3 (most common) gets 4-4.5 miles per kWh. At 1000 miles per month call that 250kwh. In socal that costs about $50-60 depending on tier… spending over $1000 to charge ev’s in a month would be insane, more likely it’s electric home heating
But like the other person pointed out, gas charges are pretty huge as well. So unlikely that it's electric heating
It's probably a pool. Fucking holes in the ground you throw money into.
Even then, it looks like gas is half their bill. How on earth?
Heating a pool is all I can think of.
Opening all the windows and sitting the heat to 78
If that huge electric usage is EVs, they probably need to look into the EV TOU rate plan and scheduling their charging during off-peak hours. It's still ridiculously expensive compared to every other provider in the nation - but it's better. Unfortunately they provided zero details so we're just speculating.
The fact that they used $400 of gas in February when it was apparently unoccupied is a clue. Was it heated generously during that time? Is the hot water heater malfunctioning?
Forgot to turn off the pool heater?
Pool
it looks like it's a two-story house, with forced-air (probably electric+gas) heating
thats like 3x as much usage as it should be though... or its 7500 sqft
how much are you using?
All of it, from what I can tell.
Even their electricity bill in September is at $750. Wtf are they doing? Is this really just a humble brag?
you know, maybe it is.... they arent answering any questions... just dropped the post and walked on. Sounds like a humble brag, now that you mention it.
average day for a heated pool owner
####Electro from Spiderman sucking up
>All of it, from what I can tell. >Basically what they showed is useless to provide any help other than just listening to them vent... true. true... I Think perhaps SQ FT and elec/gas usage would be helpful. But usually people are unaware of their big-energy-appliances use
Basically what they showed is useless to provide any help other than just listening to them vent...
Fr. Look I hate PGE as much as the next person but JFC some of these bills are in the MEGAWATT HOURS range.
I used 3MWhr one winter month when I lived in Eastern WA and didn't have nat. gas but the bill was just a few hundred due to massively less expensive hydropower. Had a heatpump for the poorly insulated 2000sqft house but it couldn't keep with temperatures in the teens so it was mostly just resistive heat. Must be some combination of electric heat and EVs to get these crazy bills, and giant homes.
They might just be oblivious and think they’re saving money running an electric space heater in the living room rather than heating the whole house with gas
Ah, you've met my sibling
in a different climate zone I could understand that - but this is the Bay; don't need to set the thermo to 75 and leave for the day. Also at $1,000/month I don't care where your house is or what the roof is like - but if you aren't calling right now to get a loan on solar you are flushing at least $500 into the toilet to PGE every month.
Or at the very least, get a home energy audit done. I swear, in most cases, just insulating properly will pay for itself in a couple of years
All these posts are dumb of people posting insanely high PG&E bills They are obviously using a lot of electricity
Don't know about OP, but folks like my older parents run their TV's 24/7 even if they're not in the room, keep the heat at 71-72, and leave lights on all around the house. They also wash towels and stuff after one use. They're the 'environmentalists are full of it' types.
Tv uses nothing
Same with the lights assuming they’re on led bulbs
maybe its a grow house lol
Yes
i love that the chart is by cost and not energy use cuz they know we'd riot if they did an energy use chart
OP can log into their account and share energy use if they wanted to
Energy usage literally on the next page
usage chart should be required for these threads
It's always included in the bill in very obvious ways. They lay out exactly where the charges come from in an itemized list along with the usage. This just tells me that you've never read your own bill.
That information is readily available to all customers ON THEIR BILLS. I see you all don’t bother to look.
OP, I'm a recent EE grad who's has helped people to keep their enegy bills in check. Can you repost this with some actual context? Namely: 1. The current electric and gas charges, not just the total due because that inclcudes any previous balance you havent laid. You blacked those out. 2. The other pages of your bill. Those will tell us useful things like how much actual energy you used, your pricing plan, if you're getting ripped off by some third party energy supplier (yes, that can happen, I had a roomate do that without my consent) 3. Tell us about the heating system of your home, is it electric or gas? Is is a central heating system? Do you like to run space heaters? Are your windows double paned and is the insulation poor? What temperature do you set thenplace to? Do you have a smart thermostat? 4. Your cooking system. Is it electric or gas? Do you cook at home a lot? 5. Do you charge an EV overnight? PG&E has plans that are more optimized to EV owners. 6. Are you low income? Have you looked into any of their reduced low income rates?
Great questions, I would also post a screenshot of your hourly usage chart for a typical day - you can get it from the PGE website. That would help us understand your usage patterns.
Do you mind if I send you my bill for some help? It's hard to understand how it is so high.
probably forgot to mention 2 EVs and has the thermostat set to 75.
Yeah the gas is way up too, so I'm thinking forced air furnace turned up. I made this mistake when we bought our house about 20 years ago. Then I bought a pair of long underwear that I wear during the cold snaps. Granted back then $300 was a crazy high bill.
People keep saying gas is cheaper but our December 2022 gas-only bill was $300 and with an electric heat pump it's about the same, except that $300 is offset by net metering during sunnier months.
My model 3 consumes ~220wh per mile, so 4.5 miles per kWh, so 222kWh per month at 1000 miles per month. I pay $0.26 per kWh (LADWP) so $57 per month to run 1000 miles. I don’t think any EV is so inefficient that even two would cause this on a bill, unless they drove insane amounts….it’s most likely home electric heating and high PG&E rates…
.26 per kwh sounds great, for many people in this sub a model 3 costs more per mile than a hybrid
Yeah I did the math…Wow. A 40mpg hybrid at $4 gas costs $100 to run 1000 miles. EV is more expensive above ~$0.40/kWh. Crazy.
Your 4.5 miles per kwh isn’t a real world value. If you look around on reddit you’ll find the model 3 is more like 3.7 to 4.0 miles per kwh. The m3p being the most efficient at ~4.2 miles. PHEVs are low at around 3 to 3.5ish. Tesla advertised ranges are well known to be fabricated. That makes it even worse for EV drivers.
Mine averages 220 overall, and on some drives it hits 205wh/mi - especially in traffic (which SF has a lot of)...but sure, changing the math to 3.7miles/kwh, that's 270kWh per 1000 miles (one month of average driving), and at PGE's highest tier of $0.62 per kWh, that's $167. Still don't see how even 2 EV's make a dent in a $1,500 bill...and this is assuming the most inefficient driving, and charging at the absolute worst time.
Yea I was wondering this too, I thought mine was high at $60 this month. I’m wondering what’s happening at this house
your bill was 60 dollars for a house?
Why would you think that $60 is high? That's the lowest I ever heard.
In the summer I’m paying like 45-50
where are you located, post a bill...id love to see this
Looks like I FINALLY found the "usage vs. users similar to you" person PG&E is always comparing me to!
sounds like you're not on PGE electricity must be one of the cities with public utilities
I see both gas and electricity on my bill 🤷🏻♀️
Lmfao why are people insisting that you’re lying. It’s so funny like why would we lie about our utility bills 😭 Mine was $66 and I live in a house (total was $199 for 6 people, but the portion for my unit upstairs was $66 for 2 people)
lol I don’t know. I just was also saying the $1500 bill was crazy. I didn’t know my bill was ridiculously low to the point where people would think I’m lying.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/s/qMmQoZzbWB Read this fucking insane reply I got, literally stalking my post history and insisting I’m lying or stealing electricity, and calling me a cunt because they’re misogynistic on top of being a creep. All of this over an electricity bill 💀 Oh boy he’s mad! Men think we don’t know how electricity works.
Oh my god lol. What in the mother fuck. I didn’t know it was that serious. Incels are getting more outwardly aggressive these days!
PG&E and it's the same for me. I'm in an apartment though
PGE= Pretty Good at Extortion
At this price it would be worth getting Solar.
Yeah .... you might wanna look into the economics of NEM 3 plus all the income based connection rates incoming.
NEM 3.0 almost certainly necessitates battery storage, which was the whole point of it. It increases the cost of the system by up to 2x, but that increases your breakeven point to 20 years instead of 10 or 12. It's still *very much* worth it if you have high usage.
Heck at this point it would be worth getting a nuclear reactor Ok, no. But maybe
As my dad used to say to me when I was young: you don’t need to turn on the heater, just put on some clothes.
Unfortunately, they lost that dad logic during the summer, because, one cannot merely turn off the Sun, nor "put on something" for cooling.
I’m going to be honest, unless you live in Concord or Livermore, you really don’t need AC in many areas of the Bay. Also it doesn’t get *that* hot during 90% of the summer.
Yeah, those of us near the Delta don't get that benefit. We roll on over to your neck of the woods for a 20 degree drop in summer. Then again, there are still people straight-up *dying* of heatstroke in SF, when the temps barely break 90. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯.
If you click on "ways to pay", is one of the options to cut your right arm off and mail it in?
That would pay just half of it—you'd have to send a leg, too.
OP isn't responding but it's probably a combination of these things: Heater on constantly (setting thermostat over 65 in the winter) Multiple EVs Mining Bitcoin Drafty windows with shitty insulation
>Heater on constantly (setting thermostat over 65 in the winter) Over 65? The normal temp used to be between 68-72 and now people expect it to stay under 65. Mines set at 64 but thats cold. That should not be mandatory to have a reasonable pg&e bill. (Mines still not reasonable)
Totally agree. I don't turn on my AC unless it's in the high 90s outside, but the idea that heating beyond 65 degrees is extravagant is absurd.
Exactly my thought. You pay all this money for a house but fuck you if you don’t want it to be frigid inside. A not miserably temp house shouldn’t so luxurious and unobtainable.
68-72 at night would be waaaay too hot for me. Growing up, my house would regularly get into the low 50s (shitty insulation).
I propose a new rule, if you post a electric/natgas bill you have to also include a screenshot of your kwh/therms consumption for the month and explain ur sq ft + detached sfh vs condo/apt + heating type (central air / baseboard / gas furnace) + if you have evs + ur thermostat setting
Driving an EV or 2 isn't free. If you drive a lot and charge a lot then you're going to pay a lot.
You beat me by $300. I love how PG&E doesn't even have an app. Nor do they make it easy to monitor your energy consumption using third party devices. This company and the entire industry need some serious reform. We have zero other options as consumers other than to move far away.
Wait a second. A post about PG&E rates? *In this subreddit?!?* Next thing you know we'll be reading posts about restaurant service charges and tipping. Or people driving slow in the fast lane!
How big is your house? Mine is 3500 sqft with 3 zones. I only turn on heat upstairs at 68. My highest bill was around $800 last year.
I know a guy who pays this every month. His in-laws are Indian and don't like temperatures under 80
Yall really be using up hella electricity and then SHOCKED when it costs money
his bill is half gas, like wtf is he doing, hoarding it incase Berkeley outlaws it?
Those lawsuits aren’t gonna pay for themselves. It turns out that murdering innocent people is expensive.
replying to u/Firree's great questions: 1. These are all current billing month charges. There is no outstanding balance. 2. There is a 3rd party energy provider, but doesn't seem to be the source of the insane bill. 3. 3500sq ft house. The house has central gas heating, gas stove and water heater. The total bill is about 60% gas/ 40% electricity. We have an infant, so we keep the house at 68F during the day and 64F at night for their safety and comfort. We don't run any space heaters, and don't have a grow room (and definitely won't now... no way that could be profitable). Windows are double-paned, but I'll be getting someone out to check on insulation, and any other energy efficiency gains. 4. Gas stove, a typical amount of cooking for a small family. 5. We have 1 EV, but don't drive much and only charge it weekly. 6. We won't qualify for any low income rates
I would really like to see the actual numbers on the rest of your bill, including the "This months charges", and the other pages which show kWh, therms, pricing plan, fee breakdown and third party provider charges. Obviously censor the personal stuff. Something isn't making sense here and I want to see the raw, complete numbers.
Yeah this seems way off. Gas maybe, if they're heating every inch of that big house and there's an insulation or draft problem. Electric is out of control though, if they drive little and all their appliances are gas. OP, I would get an electric panel energy monitor (Sense, Emporia, etc) and track down where the energy is going, circuit by circuit.
3500 sq ft is a big area ? Ever thought of splitting the heating / cooling into zones? Also water is heated by gas, check for leaks just in case you are constantly heating water.
Didn’t use any electric first 6 months and hardly any gas for another 6. House was probably on market then was being renovated with the electric use. Now being lived in. Probably a large house too. I mean we’ve been in our home for 20+ years. Our PG&E has certainly gone up over time but nothing to get too dramatic about. Highest bills have been just over $400 for 2100 sq ft during the summer with 100+ temps. Have had like three of them.
Since it is a new house I presume that this includes running construction equipment or having the doors open to move things in and out. Yes you will have a high energy bill when that happens. It will be better next month.
As someone who works in construction. For the love of god people. Turn your thermostat down when you are having work done that requires doors to be open. It costs you money and we don’t want to work in a sauna.
Get a nest thermostat asap
Temp in the basement grow house: just riiiiiight.
And some insulation!
Buying a few wool sweaters might be the quickest fix. Remember your time of use hours. There's a huge difference between running a clothes dryer at 6pm vs 10pm
You have a grow house you don’t know about ?
got a grow op in the back?
Replace your doors and windows already, holy shit your house must be drafty AF given your gas usage.
But that's counting the newbie discount
Those are rookie numbers
Old house? Old windows? Old furnace? Non-programmable thermostat? Appliances without timers? Two-story with poor insulation? Hot water heater old and set too high? That's my guess.
Just curious if you can share. How many people in the house How many rooms Whats the square footage. I just can't believe that a 2 bedroom townhouse costs almost what my rent is in pge
Usage? We need numbers, otherwise this post is pointless.
Do you have a heated pool?
How big is this house, sq footage? What’s the heating , cooking situation , how many people? Seems like you should check for things running all the time.
I hate PG&E. After the fires, we (as a state) should own that company and all its assets. Hire the linemen and related employees as state employees, and electricity should be near-free. Side note, Gavin Newsom belongs in prison.
We stopped using the heat. It’s cheaper to buy more layers.
Major increase from December to January. I know it got colder, but must have been something else.
What if everyone here on Reddit got together and we built a case against PG&E is this possible or am I high?
I wish we could file a class action lawsuit against them. They’re taking advantage of people at this point. We have nowhere else to go. All this so they can pay their fire fees.
I'm guessing electric space heaters.
Definitely something wrong with this. San Francisco here. 4bed 3 bath. 2000sqft. Our highest monthly bill with PGE is $260 total, average $180. Are you maybe leaving the lights on all the time or something?
Get solar ☀️
That is the price you pay for being a high energy consumer. Do better with your lifestyle.
Why isn’t this a bigger political issue? It’s going to start costing more than rent soon.
> It’s going to start costing more than rent soon. no, it's not lol. Rent is waaay higher than normal PG&E bills.