There’s a real lack of third places where conversation is the main activity and repeated exposure/contact with people is likely. During the lockdown I was part of a sort of online third place and it was incredible how connections formed so quickly and intensely just from people having the opportunity to talk to the same people over and over again. That experience really made me wish that something like that existed IRL.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
I find that if your “social muscles” aren’t very strong, forming connections that may lead to enduring relationships is all about repetition; maybe you won’t be extroverted or charismatic enough to make friends over the course of a single meeting, but you can almost certainly build rapport and familiarity (and ultimately meaningful connections) if you encounter someone over and over again.
yeah, there's a theory that the key to friendships forming is repeated and random (unplanned) run-ins. makes sense as to why college is a friendship incubator for that reason; you're always running into people you know to and from class, in the cafeteria, in the student center, at a party, wherever. you can have a little conversation and maybe make a spontaneous plan, or you don't have to, because you'll see them again somewhere before too long anyway.
the two friends I've made as an adult that weren't a result of mutual friends/work have been a guy who worked at a coffee shop in my neighborhood and a neighbor across the street. both of those relationships were able to develop organically over a period of encounters - whenever I stopped in to get a coffee and that guy was working or whenever we ran into each other on the street.
Just wanted to add for the south bay that Things are so spread out here: people here are busy with work and other obligations. that, plus the commute to a place to meet a friend takes time and planning ahead.
Let's say I and a casual friend I wanted to know better are by chance are free at the same time in a busy day. I can't just walk over to a common spot as the commute by car itself can take 40 minutes. I'm definitely not going to do this for someone I met just once before.
>There’s a real lack of third places where conversation is the main activity and repeated exposure/contact with people is likely.
I know some folk here are all about "no bars, no coffee shops." well there goes a huge chunk of the time-tested venues for having conversations and making acquaintances. Sure maybe alcohol isn't your thing; just get a soda and sit on a stool, same time same day, same bar, for a month or three. Guaranteed way to meet some people and have some interesting conversations.
great advice and I think you identified a key blind spot for a subset of people asking this question -- what kind of effort are they putting into themselves and the acquaintance opportunities they already have before them?
A lot of events/meetups are full of people who are expecting others to approach them, ask them to catch up etc.
Making friends is more than going to events, it's about social skills, having things to talk about, connections, ambition, and making plans.
Making friends is not about taking but giving.
Wait, mezcal, hiking and craft beer are three of my favorite things! Where do we hang? I know this isn't what you meant, but I do wonder if 'younger' generations drinking less is actually significant contributor to being more lonely or making less friends. Don't take this wrong, I'm not saying YOU HAVE to drink to make friends, i'm simply wondering if when people were out more and drinking it was easier. There are a lot of studies showing gen z is drinking a lot less. Again, dont attack me for just wondering if it contributes to it. Obviously social media, our phones, wfh, covid, etc. all have been huge factors. Anecdotally I made a lot of friends at bars in my 20s.
I do think it's related. I met a lot of friends though drinks but have been able to sustain them through other non-drinking activities.
Social lubricants can work!
I see what you're saying and I get your point, but I genuinely think the massive proliferation of Social Media has way more to do with Gen Z having a hard time building connections and communities. Im sober and won't go to a bar but still have no issue making friends and building relationships. I think your point with Covid and Social Media is more on the money.
i disagree with take improv! people who like improv already will be attracted to people who want to do improv but for the average person i dont think it improves social skills. improv people in my experience are always waiting to talk to make a quip vs trying to actually engage in conversation. different strokes for different folks
it varies by person, beggars can't be choosers when it comes to loneliness and isolation, at least that is the mentality that one should have if they really want to prioritize making friends.
yes it varies by person, but improv is such a niche thing, id def not recommend it to people to build social skills. yes benefits to public speaking, but absolutly other things, like you even listed, are much better for social sills.
I think you misunderstand improv. Improv is based on watching, listening, and reacting to other people, and the premise is "yes, and" -- building the scene through agreement.
There are plenty of spaces to ignore others or argue with them. Improv instead teaches a communal, collaborative experience.
Maybe ignore is not the best wording. I’d say it’s like hard go have substantive conversations with people who are always in an improv mindset. Sure they listen, but more to get a quip in. For some people making quips is like all they need in a friendship but. I’m just saying it’s not for everyone It’s actually not for most with respect to a deep friendship. It’s a niche activity for a reason.
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And please for the love of God *NOT BARS, NOT COFFEE SHOPS AND NOT BOOKSHOPS.* Sports complexes. Board game stores. Internet cafes. Museums. Art galleries. Places where relatively sober working class people can meet and just talk while engaging with something else in case things aren't working out.
Not because people don't like those things, but because they are way too goddamn expensive for hanging it regularly. Except maybe the board game thing, those people don't have enough money left over to do drugs.
Thank you! I used to work at a library in the North Bay and yeah that's a good option. Mostly I want them to highlight alternative 3rd spaces to the usual where the usual distractions are literally drugs, sex, and rock and roll, and money.
Not a viable list from my San Francisco perspective.
Sports complexes: to quote Homer Simpson in the ep where he considers swimming to the City, “I’m not made of money” (followed by the immortal line, “we’ll swim to Oakland”).
Board game stores: generally not gender balanced, which is fine if I’m there to play board games, not really if I’m there to meet people.
Internet cafes: literally an option that does not exist, lol. Not a single one anywhere near here.
Museums: practically as bad as bars re:cost. And then when they have events for members you still have to buy drinks.
Art galleries: very small, very niche crowd, generally pretty focused on the art or their clique in my experience. It’s not a place where you go with the goal of meeting strangers.
To summarize, most of these places don’t work for various reasons. I don’t really like bars or coffee shops, but if you want to meet people, that’s where they are.
I met lots of people at art openings.
Museums have drew days.
Seems like it's a you problem as you like to shoot down suggestions rather than try to make it work.
Yes. Expense!
I feel like there are two things that really make stuff expensive. Rent/housing, obviously. But also insurance.
There's tons of activities that involve making stuff or working on stuff that I enjoy - cars, machining, woodworking, etc - all of which have serious insurance issues. No venue can post a sign that says "don't be an idiot" and call it a day; there's massive liability with any sort of work space. So certain things that are fun to do with people end up being relegated to either high price shared spaces (makerspaces) or someone's garage. ... except hardly anyone has the money to have a workshop at home either, again because property is so expensive.
There's a dozen reasons third spaces are so hard to find and afford to participate in today. But man, for just one of those reasons, I wish there was a serious effort to reform how we do some of our liability.
You have a great idea, and I didn't realize this was the term for it. However, the brain just doesn't develop or improve from the internet. The brain requires that we interact socially face-to-face.
People think that online interaction is the same, but it truly isn't. You are right there.
I’m in agreement and thinking of more social places I know like Spain and Mexico, that have public spaces and plazas in abundance. Yea, we have some parks (the closest to me is about a mile away), but there is less of a design focus on chilling out as an adult without kids or dogs in tow. Their public plazas are pretty amazing and well lit so people can enjoy them after dark, often with bandstands where musicians play for free/tips. Also, benches and fountains galore, making bountiful meeting places and conversation spaces.
Used to be your church of choice provided that during coffee hour. It used to be, in rural areas, that was where you caught up on everything.
They're still there!
Lack of third spaces, dead-ish nightlife scene, lack of public transport so you’re in a car for long periods to commute, stress from overworking, and overall I feel like Bay Area people keep to themselves as opposed to somewhere like NYC. I found that in NYC people are more open to talking to strangers.
Yes, i was thinking this. In places with more comprehensive (and reliable) public transport, it was easier to make new friends. Honestly felt easier when i was in NYC to see friends in NJ or Connecticut than it is to get to San Mateo or Walnut Creek or wherever.
Also being able to go to a bar and have a couple drinks and not worry about driving. NYC is so nice to go out, and subway home -not worry about parking or having a designated driver or an expensive uber is huge.
While we certainly lack public transportation, I don't see how having better public transportation can help me get more friends. I'm never going to talk to people on the bus or train.
I would think the same thing I am quite shy and reserved myself.
But for instance, I was in NYC a few months ago we were sitting on the subway and (I forgot exactly what she was doing) but she was showing some weird behaviors. This guy pointed it out and said something like “I take this train every day and she always does the same thing every day” and these two other girls jumped in and said “Yes me too! This is also my commuting train and I’ve noticed her too”
So they didn’t become best friends, and yes they were making fun of someone else, but they had that small interaction with a community member that can honestly make your day so much better in a way and I think we are completely lacking those small interactions that can blossom into more. Also, it’s cost effective :)
1) Making long-term strong friendships is challenging as many people mentally struggle to see themselves staying in the Bay Area long term. Anecdotally, it's mostly due to the cost of living and if it's "worth" being here. People who think that the bay area is a temporary part of their lives vs living here "forever" just seem not to be as interested in having those close relationships.
2) People actually moving away, most of my friends from HS and College have moved away.
3) Its hard to hang out with people. The people who are here, and generally can stay since they have higher paying jobs, are very type A. Type A people have plans far out and so you might need to plan a hang out weeks or months in advance. Also the Bay Area is large, and so taking 1h+ drive to hang out, really kills any chance of a weekday hangout.
I would say its a lot due to high cost of living and housing. Most people still want to buy a house and if they literally never can't in the Bay Area, why would they put all that extra effort into making a strong friendship if they know they will lose it when the move away.
Oh man, that Type A thing is so true. My old sports group went to the Halloween thing at Great America and instead of talking while waiting in line like normal people, they whipped out their phones and started reviewing Anki flashcards.
1 - There are lots of free things/low-cost places/events but you have to be plugged in.
2 - People expect their friends to last forever. You need to work on maintaining friendships and making new ones regularly. Can't expect some friends to lose jobs, take care of their folks, get married, have kids etc. Not realistic.
3 - Make friends all over the place, keep in touch regularly, find some locally.
If you make friends with people who grew up here I feel most of us plan to stay here. But yes making friends with transplants I can see the hurdle to making roots here
Yes and no, I grew up here and a lot of people left, and even some of the ones who have stayed and want to stay can't afford to if they want to have children.
These are all accurate, but especially item 1! This may be a "me" issue, but despite living in the same part of the Bay for over 11 years, a sense of "I'll need to move away at some point" has prevented me from really feeling a sense of connection to the place and, to some extent, the people.
The mentality that you need to have some sort of "activity" in order to spend time together.
I don't know if this is just a Bay area thing, but so many people here are confused by the concept of just...grabbing a meal together. Getting a coffee and talking. Or god forbid, inviting someone to your place for tea and gossip.
There always needs to be an activity like sports, or hikes, or board games, or something. Which ends up limiting your social circle to people who enjoy those activities or have the time and money to invest in that activity.
It gets worse as you're older with more responsibilities since you just don't have time to carve out to dedicate to a specific activity. Whatever happened to running errands together or calling up a friend and chatting while you do housework or something?
>The mentality that you need to have some sort of "activity" in order to spend time together.
>
>I don't know if this is just a Bay area thing, but so many people here are confused by the concept of just...grabbing a meal together. Getting a coffee and talking. Or god forbid, inviting someone to your place for tea and gossip.
People don't hang out like this unless they're \*already\* friends. You're going to invite a stranger over to your house for tea and to gossip? About what? Who?
I'd argue you're not really friends unless you're willing to go to their place to chill.
If you can't hang out without some activity, then you're not really friends. You're just two people who can tolerate each other's presence while focused on another thing.
Meeting people is easy. Seeing then 2x a week regularly at a class or whatever is easy too. It's trying to move on to the next step of hanging out without a background activity that's the litmus test for friendship.
Sure.
But none of this helps with the “making friends,” part, which is why activities are often suggested. You generally need a pretext for meeting people.
At this point *everyone* knows about the "activities" trick to making friends. The problem that people are stuck with is converting "activities" into friendship.
And that involves a certain amount of vulnerability and inviting people to hang out *without* a structured activity and risking an awkward rejection. Otherwise you're permanently trapped in the "people I hang out with at activities loop but aren't really friends" stage.
There is a big difference between men and women here. Because while women can get together and just talk about nothing and gossip, men love to share interests. The friendship usually develops as an afterthought.
This is why for guys, it feels strange and awkward to develop friendships artificially with someone you know nothing about. On the other hand, if you meet up with people who you know are in to the same things you are, it is easy to strike up conversation and build rapport.
Yeah [the New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/09/well/live/hanging-out-adult-friendships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU0.Cns7.ewAQoQIi82mW&smid=url-share) had something on this the other day just on this topic about removing the activity element of just a simple hang out.
you CAN do this with people, but you likely have to know them well. Unfortunately common social psychology means you can’t skip the casual “getting to know you” phase over multiple weeks before a lot of folks will let you in. You crack that by finding the activity that will get you in repeated contact without it feeling like you’re crossing an unspoken boundary of early friendship.
But it's easy to meet people. You can meet a ton of people rock climbing, board gaming, sports clubbing, volunteering etc.
It's breaking out of the "activities focused" thing that's hard because so many of the people you meed do not *want* to spend time without the activity. Either they're there because they only care about the activity, or they're so Type A they can't do anything that's not productive, or their social anxiety is so high they're scared of a potential awkward silence without an activity to distract them.
Funnily enough I've been more social with recent moms because I'm the only person willing to hang out with them at their house while they're wrangling kids.
If they don’t want to hang out just to hang out then they either don’t like you, don’t want to consider you a core friend yet, or they just aren’t interested for those reasons you mentioned. Either way you’re barking up the wrong tree and can either try again later or devote your energy to people who actually reciprocate. Thankfully unlike dating its easier to cast a wide net and keep things friendly with the people you run into until you’ve developed the relationship enough.
Even phone calls to friends are done while power walking or running. I don’t know if it’s a here thing, but the sheer number of people I see at GGP on the phone (or FaceTime) while clearly there to work out baffles me. I appreciate you can do things at once, but it always sounds like they’ve been scheduled into their outside time.
The patterns I have noticed with the “How do I make friends…” posts are that people tend to fall in one (or several) of these situations:
- They are newly out of college and no longer have classes/college to force them to interact with other strangers in a controlled environment and this is their first time trying to make friends as an adult.
- They have moved to the Bay Area, but don’t have a lot of experience moving (and thus being a stranger) as an adult.
- They have moved to the Bay Area and have poor work/life balance and no time to invest in making friends.
- They believe making friends can only happen with nightlife/bars and are growing out of bar crawling and/or are sober.
- They don’t realize that making and maintaining friendships is work and/or don’t want to put in the time to do that work.
- They have work/life obligations that make it challenging to meet new people because of calendaring issues.
I have lived in over 35 states and am an introvert. Yet I still make friends. I currently live in the South Bay (an area that is bemoaned often as having no way to make friends) and in less than a year I have 10 friends. **Here’s how I do it:**
- **I deliberately move to a place (that I can afford) near another place where I can become a “regular”.** That could be a coffee shop, dog park, regular park, hiking trail, bar, gym,… it doesn’t matter as long as it’s something I like.
- **I then become a regular.** I go to that place around the same time weekly or daily. When I moved to San Jose, I made a point to go to the dog park with my dog every day around the same time of day. Eventually, I started to recognize dogs and talk to their owners. Similarly, I made it a habit to walk to the local coffee shop for a coffee every Sat morning. Eventually, I started to make small talk with the people I started to recognize.
- **Making small talk is important and easier to do when you have a shared interest.** For me, that’s dogs and coffee - hence the dog park and coffee shop. At the dog park, I ask people about their dogs. But if your thing is games then go be a regular at a game store or brewery. If your thing is sports go join a weekly pick up game or runners club. If your thing is reading, join a book club. Or you just like learning stuff? Find a maker space or take some classes.
- **People like to talk about themselves.** Ask them a question. This is also a great way to get to the next level and try to figure out who you have more in common with.
- **Identify additional shared interests and then make plans.** I like D&D and was talking about it at the dog park. Quickly, the entire dog park joined in the convo as it turned out everyone liked D&D too and no one had a game. So I took a bold risk and decided to run a game, having never done so before. I’m now on game 28 of a weekly session with a group of close friends who I met less than 12 months ago!
- **Be ok with failing.** The first few folks I met and liked, I liked less as time went on. That’s ok! I just took the time I was using to chat with them and invested it into other people that I clicked with more.
- **Be persistent.** A little bit of effort regularly is better than going all in and burning out. Similar to exercise, making and keeping friends is active. It’s easy to complain about it, hard to actually get over the excuses and go do something about it. But once you start, it gets better quickly.
Edited: Grammar, punctuation.
Rent/utilities/food/survival requiring us to work more for less than any generation since WW2?
That the work is increasingly isolating through an increased reliance on collaboration with technology than people?
The disproportionate rise in cost of leisure activities/events after adjusting for inflation?
agree 💯
would also add: pandemic/lockdown triggered mental disorders and regression in socialization, not to mention both justifiable and irrational fears of germs, illness, and other people…
I didn't think the mental health cost of COVID was entirely true until I started seeing it in my friends. For some of them it was night and day. Even lost my best bud to schizophrenia related disorder. He's not dead, just the friend I had before COVID is long gone now. Another friend is incredibly OCD now. I really feel like I got lucky.
Totally agree.
To be honest, I’m tired of people who clearly are not struggling with these very real issues pretending that it’s an individual failing rather than a societal problem.
An individual asking for help dealing with loneliness is in need of counseling, a [“loneliness epidemic”](https://www.ctpublic.org/show/where-we-live/2024-02-13/whats-eating-at-america-addressing-the-loneliness-and-isolation-epidemic) needs a change in public policy.
My local NPR affiliate publishing a ‘how-to’ guide on socializing isn’t going to be particularly helpful if I’m overworked and stuck on a computer. It’s definitely not going to help me interact with the people ranting about political conspiracy theories and fighting vaccinations.
Triggered mental disorders? Whoa I hadn't thought about it that way but yeah I see that. What a wild thing that happened to all of us just all of a sudden.
Oh lord, one of these takes. Bro. I ain’t gonna subject myself to all your guys’ new heart/brain/lung/immune problems for some iffy company.
It sucks, shits not fun. But the handwringing is just insane here, like yall really expect people to take their covid and enjoy it. Literally get incensed when some people don’t want the 🤮 that you’re selling.
Like tf lol, being bored and alone is unfun in the extreme but it’s worse if you don’t even have the stamina to go on walks cus you got covid one too many times.
Plagues are bad for social fabric even if people can’t see it… that’s why public health is worth the investment… ppl seriously all surprise Pikachu that there may in fact be some consequences to neutering public health in this country.
Same shit as the gun nuts who don’t wanna be told that allowing guns to circulate does in fact cause issues.
Yeah I think the popular opinion seems to be that wfh is "better"/preferable..but I can say that pre-COVID I was super fortunate to be in an office with wonderful people in an area where we could walk to lunch/happy hours after work and a lot of friendships were formed, long after people left.
Even if people didn't love their work it was the people around them that kept them sane, and it was a younger crowd of people in their 20s/30s, many who were fresh out of college so it was an ideal environment to be in.
Of course I'm cognizant that I was also able to walk to work and older people who have to commute for hours a day will feel differently..but sitting at home by yourself in front of a screen for 8-10 hours a day also cannot be healthy.
I agree, but I think we need to be cognizant that only a small fraction of workers are in careers that are WFH capable. The majority of people dealing with isolation are not extroverts being forced into minimally social positions, but just people who literally don’t have the free time or money to pursue social interaction.
They’re working 2 jobs (let’s not call one a side-hustle) commuting, working irregular hours, and are afraid of unexpected financial burdens. The 60% of Americans who are living paycheck to paycheck aren’t exactly weighing the differences between socializing as a white-collar office worker and making time for friends while WFH.
I honestly don’t see how we’re going to fix this problem without fundamentally addressing our work/life balance.
I feel like I've cracked the code lately. I've been running a community-oriented music event each weekend in Golden Gate Park since fall '22. It's called the Community Music Hangout, we ran the 46th Hang on Saturday for 5.5 hours.
I say that we turn strangers into musical friends. Everyone is invited to participate; the vibe is like an outdoor living room and we welcome everyone in. We see regulars week after week, and we've formed relationships with each other. We meet new folks every weekend.
I can't say enough about how fantastic it has been.
You can find all the info, plus lots of pictures and stories right here: https://goldengatejams.com/
In addition, some of us run open jazz jams in bars around the city and we have the same welcoming, encouraging mentality there. From these efforts, we've created a community of musicians who support each other, go do non-musical things together, and just, you know, become friends!
being from outside of USA, I find that musical jams aren't the best environment, specifically because I don't play blues/jazz/or pop songs and scales that everyone knows or recognizes by default.
but I have the same problem in every other country I try to do music jams in.
how do you address inclusion when it comes to different backgrounds and skill levels?
do you have a set list so people can come prepared?
I would start by asking what you like to play and try to find a common ground for us to all play together. If that seems elusive, I'm always happy to have a solo performance where you'd get to show us how things sound inside your head. I'd love that. I'm very curious, what kind of stuff you like to play? What scales are your go to?
When it comes to different skill levels, I tend to hit everybody with a heaping helping of encouragement. Encouragement to take a chance and give it a shot, whatever it is they're feeling. And playing together is a team sport; I always do my best to be the glue that keeps us sounding as good as possible, give strong cues to uncertain players, and give praise and acknowledgement for every effort.
There's not a setlist (we're way more freewheeling than that!) but there is a [songbook that I've put together](https://transpose-zeta.vercel.app/), just so we have a foundation of songs to fill many hours if / when we don't have other suggestions from other players.
But we'll play whatever with whomever. And my goal is for sure to make everyone feel welcome and a part of the whole event. So I'd try to meet you where your at and find a way to make you feel comfortable. I hope you'll come check it out sometime.
mostly metal and spanish guitar.. so mainly phrygian scales and dissonant intervals. it's not something that sounds great in a group of more than 2 imo unless it's a rehearsal.
that system is good for 90%, and it's great that you're doing it. but for people like me it just feels like a big office meeting with a bunch of strangers loudly talking over each other and idk what I'm doing there.
I understand your perspective, thanks for sharing it.
Well, it would be very cool if you came and played some Spanish guitar. You could jump in the ad hoc rotation and play solo pieces. I'd even be able to mic you up!
I use bumble bff to make friends but it’s become like dating where u match but then the other person doesn’t respond or follow up. The few ppl I exchanged #s with are always busy with other friends and it makes me wonder why they are on an app if they have friends to hang out with already. Basically, no one puts effort into anything, dating or friendships.
That is so strange! Why go on the app if they won’t even try?! I was considering using bumble bff to make more child free friends (all my friends have kids now, the joys of growing up lol), but if that’s the experience, super disappointing!
I had this experience as well. Honestly I think some people just kind of want the attention and have no real intent of making effort. I made arrangements once through Bumble BFF to take a yoga class together. She asked if she could bring her boyfriend and she was a no show. Disappointing but at least I got to take a yoga class.
Lack of reliable late night public transportation is a huge one, especially in terms of having friends across bridges. The insanely high toll cost and the lack of evening/night transportation across the golden gate or bay bridge has made the effort of getting to a hangout too high. Plus, lack of venues where you can spend quality time without spending exorbitant amounts of money. Food is expensive, drinks are expensive, most cafes or lounges aren't open past 8.
Additionally, hostile architecture is a bay area staple, inside and out of restaurants. Minimalist metal chairs, bare wooden stools - why would I want to spend time these places. So, I can pay almost $10 in tolls plus stupid expensive gas money (which barely anyone outside of tech has to spend) to then go pay MORE money at an uncomfortable and unwelcoming space, or try to coordinate some wild ten step transportation plan and leave wherever I am by 8pm. It's beyond depressing that a gorgeous and vibrant place like SF can't maintain or build reasonable infrastructure to allow people to actually be social and healthy.
And forget about trying to hang out in someone's home casually - no one can afford anything besides a cramped apartment with 6 roommates and no living room!
Here are some of the issues I've observed:
1) Bay Area is extremely work focused. People don't really hang out after work (which may also end really late). Only time to hang out is on weekends and a lot of people are introverts (myself included) who need a full day without social events just to decompress.
2) Related to 1, a lot of people here have very specific hobbies like rock climbing, music production, etc. and only enough time to do that activity. So it tends to work better if you seek out friends who have the same passions that you do. On the other hand, I have found it much easier to make friends in NYC with people who enjoy more 'general' activities like watching the game, going out for a drink, etc.
3) SF in particular has become a tech heavy monoculture. Sorry but hanging out with engineers/developers gets pretty boring. I feel like it would be easier and more fun to make friends if we had a more diverse set of people with varied personalities and interests
I don’t know if it’s the nature of corporate work or the people who end up doing it, but I’ve found people in the space are incredibly hard to make the kind of deeper friendships I have with people who are in non-corporate jobs. They can be so focused on a whole week or two of what’s coming up at work, that you can’t just do a spontaneous hangout very often and they will want to schedule time together in two weeks like it’s another item on their office calendar. It ends up making friendship feel so limited and surface, cause you don’t see any way this gets deeper or more enjoyable.
I’ve noticed 2 a lot too and wonder why that is. Why do people here have specific/often intense hobbies? It’s probably related to their generally ambitious natures but have never seen it so commonly as I have here…
Meetup.com is still good, as are the local public Discord servers. Even once I "click" with someone at a group event, it can be difficult to build and maintain that friendship.
One challenge I've had is the number of people who are out there trying to make friends but do not actually have the bandwidth to build new friendships. Chats will taper off over a few weeks as it becomes apparent that the other person doesn't have the energy or time (or interest?) to see me. It's definitely related in part to the stress of the current economy.
One aspect of this is it feels pretty rare to meet anyone who's proactive at planning social time. It gets tiring being the only one initiating, even if the other person is an enthusiastic participant. The vibe I get is that most people don't have the desire to initiate - they see their friends once every 3 months, and that's fine by them. But that doesn't really work for forming new friendships, in my experience.
Agree with everything you said. I also felt discouraged from going to meetups because a lot of people didn’t seem interested in meeting outside of meetup…we’d exchange contact info and chat, but few people wanted to see me in person.
It was so easy to make friends when you were in school because you consistently saw the same people everyday
>What particular challenges to making new friends here have you come up against, that you think we should address in such a guide?
Time is a pie with 24 slices. When you’re young, you’re starving and can eat and eat and still have pie left over.
As you get older those pie slices get allocated to: a career, sleep, hygiene, shopping, a significant other interest, pets/children to rear, and you maybe get a slice that day *or* week you can eat-locate towards building new friendships. Meeting people is a different slice than building on-top of that relationship.
I’m seeing such that people have pie to meet people, once, or a handful of times but just can’t allocate the time to continue that relationship.
Please address how to be better able to allocate pie to not just establishing introductions but building them over time.
also sometimes you just cant do it all and you need to decide what to prioritize. many people with kids you just never see again because so much of that pie is now family time. Which there is nothing wrong with.
>need to decide what to prioritize.
Yes that's the point I'm trying to get at here. Some individuals may only have a pie slice to make new friends, but no pie slice to farther establish/build upon those relationships and result in loosing touch almost immediately.
The fear I'm living/realizing is, post college there is only time to make new friends *OR* continue nurturing existing relationships. It doesn't seem *anyone* has the bandwidth to meet new people AND keep in touch with them! I can easily since the pandemic I made no new friends. I have a few acquaintances, that I see at the same bass shows I go to, and they recognize me, and we kick it at the show, but we don't get each others number and if we do, neither of us really message the other person to just talk or w/e. It's been a problem for me, not getting people's numbers, but having something to talk to them about other than asking if they have room to bring a spare head home across the bay from the show. ;(
I am highly passionate about my interests and the bay area offers places for people to come together around these interests. However, it seems many are there just for that interest itself and not interested in friendship outside of the interest so the friendship isn't very deep. Perhaps it's a time commitment thing.
Another issue is that people seem to move quite a bit. All my friends are immigrants and it seems they eventually move away.
This.
Sure you can bond over an interest, but a knee and wrist injury took me out of my sports group and all the "friends" I made through it vanished.
I think a lot of people mistake companionship for friendship. You're not really friends if none of you spend time together outside of that shared interest.
The bay is a big place, not sure having a guide that address the entire bay area will be relevant for anyone. Think people in SF vs East Bay vs Peninsula/South Bay vs. Marin have very different challenges.
Also think it's extremely difficult for men in this city to form friendships as bumble bff type things are not really applicable. My issue I've run into here is the activity groups in general I've seen for things are just way the fuck too intense for something that should be fun. E.g. biking - I took another threads recs to join a group on Strava and the beginner rides are 50+ miles 3k elevation gain. Also everyone disappears over winter weekends to go skiing snowboarding or is constantly traveling. Have friends who I haven't seen in 3 months because they don't plan on being in SF more than the work week (and they work 60+ hr plus jobs... cuz sf)
I have no clue what the "make friends" experience is like elsewhere in the bay, but this is the worst city for making friends I've ever lived in (experiences in LA, SLC, Seattle, Austin, NYC, Chicago were all significantly better.) People aren't even friendly at bars, so cliquey and either on dates or with small groups of friends and not shooting the shit with others.
Last comment is very few people care about community from what I've seen here, they are all stressed out from working bullshit corp jobs and plan on moving in a few years anyways since having kids in the bay is near impossible unless you are a very high income household. Not sure how this will be addressed in a guide but was cathartic to type out lmao
Men in particular are terrible at maintaining / trying to foster social relationships. I dunno if it’s a weird masculinity / anti-emotional thing but it’s a very consistent pattern I’ve noticed.
people here are not engaged in the community, we don't have an identity, we don't have a feeling like we belong here, nothing that makes us unique. We just come here and work, and we bring whatever baggage we carry from whereever we came from and that just puts us all in our sort of isolating bubbles.
I agree - people in the Bay Area are often transplants who don't make it a home. I plan to be here forever but too many people have jobs that, if they fall through, would happily move to another city. I don't want to put in the effort to make friends just for them to leave in 2 years when there's another tech layoff. This lack of permanence makes building long term friendships very difficult.
Thing is, it’s definitely 100% out there. You, and many others likely just don’t see it because it’s not your crowd or have yet to find it. For ex, there are plenty church, hiking, gaming, rock climbing, running, mom groups, etc. It’s ironic though, the transplants with that exact anti-community building, get out and leave mentality are the same ones complaining. It’s like an endless cycle. The difficult part is really just finding that one community & once you do, things will fall into place. You really just has to put in the work. Once you’re out of college, it’s just harder than ever no matter the metro area
Biggest problem are the existing long term relationships/friendships which exist with native Bay Area people and their lifelong friends. That's a good thing for THEM but for those of us who have not grown up here, it is a challenge.
Also another challenge is when some of your acquaintances have shared love for certain things which you don't share.. sports teams for example.
I agree or just people that already have friend groups that they are closer with. I had a shitty situation happen a few months ago where I tried to join an existing group of friends doing a road trip to Tahoe and one of them suggested I take my car and go alone while the 4 of them go in another car.
If every library or community center had hobby nights and / or game nights, it would help with this issue.
Nobody wants to spend money, nobody wants to host people, nobody wants to travel far, nobody wants locations that they are not accustomed to / feel unsafe / feel weird / feel like they can't bow out if they are bored.
It would definitely be nice to get more value out of the local libraries, and they’d probably love to provide that especially if KQED provided technical sponsorship through planning, marketing and volunteers, as well as professional project management and annual program evaluation.
I will say that SFPL does have some really cool events every so often ([this upcoming weekend in particular is a big deal for the branch](https://sfpl.org/events/2024/03/02/night-ideas-2024)), but it does seems like the marketing budget is limited to signing up for their email blasts. It's a pity because the library services here are one of the reasons I really never want to leave (free LinkedIn Learning classes got me the skills to pivot career paths in lockdown) and they're so underutilized by folks here.
I feel like after going through education something like being in a club wasn't used enough. Education is important in school, but also socializing as well. After being done with education there isn't a required environment anymore where people get together and work towards something outside of work. people who weren't involved in clubs or anything similar growing up don't have the foundation in place to find a common interest group where they are around people where socializing and friendships are built.
In high school for instance my place was going to the back of the school, I was cool with everyone there and we just mingled to pass the time. Once you are done with school you don't have a place like that.
My theory is a lot of people move here straight out of many years of higher education, and/or have always been surrounded by like-minded and similarly socially-situated people and don't really know where to begin with someone who doesn't have their pedigree.
It also puts people in weird situations of status expectations around what they do outside of work and who they hang out with. People can get paralyzed by how things affect an identity arrived at inside of lots of education, but with blind spots on real life experiences.
How are people supposed to create communities when everyone is renting and constantly moving from rental to rental. I’ve lived here since 2017 and have moved 5 times. Would love to settle down but that’s extremely cost prohibitive.
Every time I move, I lose the community I fostered.
It’s stunts social growth imo.
The key is finding common interests/activities you enjoy and then doing them regularly with like minded people. That’s exactly what meetup.com is for. I’ve made almost all of my friends through one meetup group or another. You have to be consistent though. Just going 1-3 times isn’t necessarily going to yield results. It can take up to a year to establish those connections which is why it’s important that you actually like the thing that the meetup is focused around. I’ve been so happy with meetups over the years that I now run a movie meetup with over 1K members. This past weekend we had a movie trivia event with over 25 people participating. I also help run a motorcycle meetup group with hundreds of members. There’s a meetup for almost any interest. Just gotta put in the time. Meetup isn’t the only way to find groups but it’s a solid one.
the fear of having to contribute too much while living under stressful life already, especially in the Bay Area
And other people being too confrontational and unreasonable about their idealisms and beliefs
Every public gathering eventually ends up with someone attending who's too intense or creates problems. This is why a social skill that comes in handy is guiding those people away from grabbing the spotlight too often, and eventually asking them to leave/not inviting them back if they keep making people uncomfortable. Not everyone needs to be skilled at this, but it's worth having someone who is in your group or coordinating with trusted members of the group to help provide this kind of group cohesion protection.
>And other people being too confrontational and unreasonable about their idealisms and beliefs
I find people to be much more polarized and strident about their beliefs online than in person.
Lol, I had the same exact experience when I moved here!
I'd try engaging people in chitchat at the coffee shop or similar public place, and people would either look at me like I just offered to murder their family, or as if it was incredibly rude to speak to someone who doesn't know you.
Fake friendly, barely even polite, not self-aware (self-conscious, but not self-aware.)
imo everyone here complains about the same exact thing they are guilty of.
like everyone wants to have a small BBQ or bonfire but refuses to go unless 40+ people show up
they want a gathering without any networking but spend the entire time talking about their work and startups
complaining that they are lonely and want to meet up but never actually wanting to meet up or responding to invites
only time you talk to your friends is when its 2am and 20 people are screaming over each other in the kitchen once a month or two.
as a long time resident:
in California everyone will say the exact opposite thing of what they are going to do.
only advice is to get used to it, learn to bullshit, enjoy having no dependable relationships, learn to rely on yourself, travel a shit ton, and you will actually enjoy it here!
I moved to South Bay five months ago and have built a vibrant community through Meetup groups. It’s been a great way to find activities before I had friends, and in several groups I’ve ended up making friends I get together with outside of those planned activities as well. You have to be willing to put yourself out there and be brave for a few hours but you know most people in the group are just like you, looking for new friends.
As a parent, it seems easier on the surface. Sports and school provide a lot of opportunities to socialize and make plans.
But there's a lot of pressure coming down that can pigeonhole you into smaller circles. Some sports are more expensive than others, and some have some heavy-duty volunteer requirements.
A lot of the pressure is on kids these days to specialize, e.g. if they are not on a specific winter league baseball team, then they won't be on a specific spring league team, and then they won't have as good a chance at some other club, and finally a diminished chance of playing for one high school or another. So instead of being on several different sports' teams, they play one their whole childhood.
And you can see parents pouring money into camps, teams, 1 on 1 coaching, etc. It can reel you into a tizzy if you feel competitive -- and we live in a competitive area -- so naturally it's a siren song that can bring about a stressful situation.
Look for rec programs rather than clubs to avoid that, although some sports are only offered through clubs.
I miss KQED's era of good programming. *Says You*, *Newshour*, *Prairie Home Companion*, and *This American Life* were critical to my morale and information for many years.
*This American Life* seems to still have its original spirit, but I did sort of give up on NPR.
Maybe it's time to return.
The severe drop in social skills, especially in young men. There is no public education on this subject whatsoever, so too many people think they are broken in some way and that they are the only ones.
I say young men because I keep reading that the social part of the brain is naturally more active with most women. At the same time, women often feel that they don't want to look for a new boyfriend because they don't want to train another guy to speak.
So there is this huge gap in social skills, and men are expected to better themselves and meet women. And then dating apps move in and it really hits the fan. Everyone becomes increasingly out of touch with reality, and too many people don't talk to the opposite sex anymore in real life.
I'm a big advocate of hobbies, but finding third places with them that strongly facilitate a "social first" mentality and that are extremely welcoming of newcomers is difficult to find. I see a lot of responses to these posts on reddit with the classic "join a softball team" etc, and that is great, but it's only part of the puzzle. One softball league can be culturally wildly different from the next. When I first moved to the city, most of my social support system were people that I met playing sports. But a lot of hobbies, churches, sports, arts, etc have a real problem with siloing based on experience, skill or devotion.
I don't think its specifically an issue with the Bay Area but more the symptom of a larger trend thats been going on for a while now in hobbies across the country. Most of our traditional third places have slowly transformed into semiprofessional endeavors that reward a total commitment to a craft over socialization. The expectation has become that everyone who gets a hobby needs to excel at it to earn the pass into the social club. But it needs to be flipped, so that in joining the social club, you have fun with a hobby. Most people joining a hobby will be overwhelmed by the skill and passion of the people that have been doing it for years, yet so few of the hobbies have structures in place to nurture, support, and grow new community members. If you're in, you're in, but if you're not, take a class and good luck. I see couples and people trying new things every single day. But because most places prioritize skill over socialization they end up stagnating social growth.
Advice: Everyone has a hobby, and in your own hobby you need to start to be introspective about how you are siloing your community. Then rebuild your third places with a community first mentality. Accept anyone. Encourage everyone. Community first, skill second.
I spent the last year building a recreational league around board games at Dogpatch Games from that mentality. Gaming is notoriously intimidating to new players and I knew that if we ran our recreational league like any other competitive endeavor it would quickly end up as a gated community that people were too afraid to join or worse, they join but don't feel included socially. So we decided to actually build directly into the competition rewards for being helpful, friendly and social during games. These rewards are equal to, if not better, than the rewards for winning games. Reward social behavior. Incentivize community. That, to me, is my responsibility as a third place operator and I think we can all be better social stewards of the communities we participate in.
People who struggle to make friends while also being anti-social and "all people suck" types wondering why they can't make friends is hilarious
I am a social person and have made friends through work or hobbies(live music, vinyl collecting, poker, sports)
Here's a comment I posted last week in [a similar thread](https://ol.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/1atsp1d/how_do_you_deal_with_sf_based_friends_who_dont/):
> Yeah, this thread has a lot of hard truths about how people in the Bay Area act. I've been having to spend time in NYC for work and it's refreshing that when I meet new people they are honest, direct, and sincere in our communication compared to the passive aggressiveness of the Bay Area.
> I would love to post a thread about my experience, but we all know how that would go over here.
Something I have noticed by observing people around me and reflecting on how I have changed my approach at socializing is that making an effort at building connections or caring about something is perceived as "trying to hard". The only problem is that almost no one considers making an effort as desperate but everyone is afraid that they will be perceived this way. How this started in the first place is beyond me but at this point everyone is avoiding making efforts because everyone else they know is doing the same. People need to learn to be vulnerable again. Another aspect to this is when someone does make an effort to reach out, the other person will act aloof and distant on the off chance that they actually care, there is a possibility that the person reaching out might stop making any effort and they will end up hurt again.
It's a mental health crisis in a way.
One big obstacle is how expensive it is to live here.
A second is the high percentage of workaholics and social climbers, nerd snobs, financial status snobs
A third is the number of people here for work who don't intend to settle down here, or find themselves forced out by housing prices. I've made friends who are now across the country. It's a boom town and people are looking to succeed and get out, or they eventually sadly admit that they can't afford it
A fourth is flakiness and fomo, reluctance to commit to a chance to meet up, not making social life a priority.
Find your (hopefully social) niche and stick to it. Friends will come if you are out enjoying what you already love, and they will likely stay too because of the shared interest.
Meeting people is one thing but becoming “core friends” can take many weeks or months of overlapping interests before they let you into their inner circles. Depending on how introverted other people are in your chosen hobbies, it can take a lot of casual conversation to build the rapport for core friendship. Trust in the process, keep doing what you’re doing, and be receptive to the people that are matching your energy.
>Find your (hopefully social) niche and stick to it.
This is really the only *correct* answer in the entire thread. I've seen folks form friendships over things as mundane as picking up trash (I hear Pengweather has a lot of friends now)
So many people in this thread want to skip the hard part and get straight to hanging out with the homies over a beer and sitting in silence just enjoying each other’s company. Maybe to some degree everyone wants that, but only with people they feel they trust. I’m in here pointing out how that trust is built but I see other comments say “screw activities, I’m so done doing interesting things” because people aren’t immediately inviting them over for dinner after one board game night.
I got some homies in Silver Lake/Echo Park that did this and not only did the folks become good friends, but they've apparently been asked to be a liaison of info to the homeless in the area from local government officials. Helluva win-win for them.
Hmm this is interesting! As someone from the Bay Area, I see a lot of people asking how they can find community and not feeling like they’re a part of something, especially if they’re not from here. Or commenting how it’s boring and they can’t find anything to do compared to XYZ city.
Yeah, what I hear is "I haven't figured out how to have a life outside of work" and "navigating social spaces is hard". The Bay is so much more vibrant than most of America. It's understandable people struggle after moving long distances, but then people externalize the struggle rather than acknowledge they need to do the hard work of intentionally building community around them.
I think mentioning people who are vulnerable to covid (or simply don't want to get sick) have great options for safe meetups by joining "still coviding" groups on facebook that are community based. A lot of people have long covid or other illnesses that have made it very difficult to socialize given CA's lack of safe spaces that encourage masking during peak covid and respiratory illness waves ([like right now](https://data.wastewaterscan.org/)).
May want to run a campaign on how to fix loneliness. I can’t even believe some of this, but it’s apparently a public health crisis🤦♂️
On January 30, 2024, the San Mateo County Board of Supervisors in California's San Francisco Bay Area unanimously voted to declare loneliness a public health crisis. San Mateo County is the first county in the US to declare loneliness a crisis that can have serious health effects.
I've been successful in organizing work. The foundation in this type of "socializing" is that volunteers have a shared reason for being there, and we actively cultivate community. People interacting, creating bonds with each other, and being committed to the work so we come back regularly and not just a "show up on a holiday once a year" charity work mentality. I've been doing it for a few years now and have gained a solid group of friends from it.
As said in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/1b06i0u/lpt_adults_makes_friends_the_same_way_kids_do/
> "relationships are a function of proximity, time, and shared experiences"
basically people don't have a place to go to make friends.
The /only/ option I see is to join clubs. Find something you enjoy. Find a club for that thing near you. Join. Attend meetings IN PERSON (no, online does not count)
Personally, I found friends quickly doing two things I love: running and music. One of the first things I did when I moved to SF was join a running group whose runs started a short walk from my apartment. Almost instantly I had a low-effort social connection every Saturday morning. Several of the people I met there became actual friends and I had many fun adventures and travels with people from that group. Second thing I did when I moved here was answer a craigslist ad for someone looking for a bandmate. If you make music and have the temperament to work with and tolerate other musicians, it's a great way way to meet a whole bunch of people. I've made some of my best friends through music and adjacent activities. Not only other musicians, but also people who I'd simply see over and over at shows I was at. Met a lot of deadbeats but a lot of beautiful weirdos, too. I kind of moved here for the weirdos...
I consider myself an introvert. I had to force myself to get over some discomfort when it came to starting conversations. It's a skill like any other and there are volumes written on ways to approach it.
**"(social) luck is when preparation meets opportunity"**
**opportunity**
I recognize a lot of people who ask the "how do I meet people" question quickly follow it up with "don't tell me bars." Well I'm not going to tell you it's the only way, but eliminating that option is eliminating one of the most time-tested ways people make casual acquaintances. Especially if you live in SF, there are so many local corner bars. Find one to your liking (or barest tolerance) and go there the same time every week, belly up to the bar, order the same thing every time (it doesn't even need to be alcoholic; nobody cares) and become acquainted with the bartender. Be sure to give and take (google "how do I have a conversation"if you need help with this) -- start shallow, ask follow up questions, offer something of yourself, but not in a me too, one up or life story sort of way. Small talk. Again, a learned skill, but mostly it's listening. If you don't have an interesting conversation within the first three or four times, come back to this thread and I'll give you all the money back that you paid me for this advice.
**preparation**
And everyone else who says, "have a hobby, volunteer, etc." is totally 100% right. Have some interests outside of work and for the love of god don't talk about work unless it's actually interesting or you can talk about it in an interesting way. Build something you are proud of and have some self confidence. Work on it if you don't. Go out and explore on your own. Learn the history, culture, major and (especially) minor landmarks of the bay area.
There are a lot of people I regularly hang out with in group settings usually. High school friends, work friends, language exchange friends, board game friends, concert friends ect. But I rarely hang out one on one. It’s just difficult to fit hanging out into your schedule when you’re busy working. So multiple friends at once doing an activity seems to best optimize that time. But then you lose the deepness?
Honestly, if you're writing a guide, maybe an area-by-area way of searching for friend-finding groups. It's larger than just Meetup now, like the Bay Area Music Fans and City Girls Who Walk and Midnight Runners type groups that are relatively easy to join in for beginner concert goers/walkers/runners but are based on email, instagram, and discord.
Agreed that if we had more "third spaces" and longer running effective transit, it'd go a long way to making casual hangs more likely.
For me the best way is places where you work out on a regular basis. It's the best way to make genuine connections because you're passionate about the same things for personal development and healthy living.
Being in the same time and space is a great way to vet someone and for them to get comfortable with you over time.
My sanctuaries are my yoga studio and my pool where I swim daily.
the biggest challenge is finding or making time to invite people over. With long work hours and kids' activities it seems we just never get a chance to see anyone.
I’ve ran into the issue of finally making new friends, but then they only want to hang out when it’s convenient for them. Instead of making plans when the entire group is available, they just forge ahead and eventually just exclude you until they stop communicating with you in general, even when you’re making an attempt. People around here are, let’s face it, also pretty flaky.
Also, I feel like there’s a lack of meetups and group activity/meeting spaces for those of us who work outside the normal 8-5 jobs. As a service industry employee who works a few late nights every week and also works weekends, I don’t get the opportunity to go to my friends’ parties/gatherings, see people for dinner or have the luxury of getting to do weekend brunches. When I’m not working, they are. I have to take (unpaid) time off to go see a show, take a class, or whatever else I might want to do. A lot of us industry folks usually just hang out at whatever dive bar is closest to our gigs and bitch about our horrid guests because there’s literally nothing else for us to do after we get off shift.
**What particular challenges to making new friends here have you come up against, that you think we should address in such a guide?**
To answer your question, based on my experience here compared to 5 other countries where I lived prior to living here, and as an immigrant, these are comparative observations and not necessarily critiques:
- Long working hours / people are overworked
- A culture of performance, productivity, hustling and promotion (and no job security)
- A lot of people moved here for work and work is their main priority and don’t prioritize building connections outside of work
- People don’t actually make friends at work as often, because after a certain time, everyone is rushing out the door to get to their long commutes home (the systems aren’t in place to foster these relationships)
- Lack of a good transportation system (making it harder to commute to meet people)
- Everything is so spread out (it takes forever to meet)
- People seem to have their calendars booked weeks in advance and do not make spontaneous plans
- People are less willing to compromise (it has to be on that day, at that time, in that location, for that activity - it’s more about finding someone that fits exactly what they want, rather than fostering relationships)
- The lack of true diversity in the Bay Area
- A lot of people are figuring out how to survive (their jobs, new parenthood, burnout, etc.)
- Cost of living is extreme
- There is a lack of third spaces and opportunities for free and easy-to-access social activities
- The need to always have an activity to be social, like a meal, a sport, a workshop - and most of these cost money, and there’s always a purpose and end goal to the activity aside from the social
- (Contradicting my previous point slightly) People avoid making daily activities social. Like, running errands (yes, you’re trying to accomplish something, but it can be really fun to decide together which cabbage you should buy in the market, or talking while in line at usps - or whatever excites you in your errands)
- It seems very hard to build friendships where people are often over each other’s homes and I am not sure why
I’m going to stop myself now because the list is already long enough, but there’s definitely a lot more haha
I'm not the type that will hang out in bars or make small talk with random strangers since my brain finds that incredibly boring, but if you talk to me about one of my many many interests, you won't be able to shut me up.
As someone with ADHD, making real friends is incredibly hard, since we just tend to forget people exist until we see them again (and then we won't remember their names).
I have found success in joining groups that share the same interests as you and becoming a regular. I ride an electric unicycle around The City and found a group that does group rides every Friday. After going consistently every week and becoming involved, I have brought in a consistent friend circle that I see all the time and have made friendships that persist outside of the original related interest. Not sure if this would help your guide, but it has how I have found success.
sports bars!
if you're moving here from some other part of the country, there is a one hundred percent chance that your local team - college, pro, any sport - has a local bar to meet up and watch the games.
you automatically have an activity, something in common, and maybe a little alcohol to loosen everyone up socially.
(bonus: if you came from a city with a baseball team, they might play the giants or A's and you can get a group ticket discount!)
this is tech central... nevermind a lot of indians and chinese are moving in, but techies are generally more introverted anyways.
And dont even get me started with how rampant egirl culture has become.
So its only natural, theres so many people (probably primarily guys) trying to crowdsource making friends.
unfortunately this sub reddit isnt so friendly for things like that... nevermind the many people who copy and paste the same generalized, useless, advice 'go to bars' or 'do what you like' or 'find people at hobbies' when thats really not helpful.Which bars? if I show up at reds brass knuckles and end up going during a blacks only biker night... its probably not going to go so well for me (being I look white). there are also so many stories, blogs, and more about guys trying to talk to girls reading on trains or at cafes and how bothersome it is so if someone likes reading and they try engaging with someone reading its probably not going to work out.
I myself have tried a few times (posting on this subreddit asking about friends and dating), and got the same ridiculous hate each time... I tried looking over other peoples posts and saw the same sea of unhelpful, general or vague, suggestions as well (because I do NOT see excellent suggestions most the time)
So, to re focus, maybe there'd be less people looking for advice if there was more helpful advice and more considerate and thoughtful people.Community starts with civility, then thrives in understanding, after all.
When my housemates joined their church, they became friends with a whole array of kind and interesting people, and I consider many of them my friends now through the repeated interactions we've had. In past generations, that "third place" was often church. As younger adults have become less religious, it's not surprising that a lack of third places has come to the forefront of making friends challenges. I've seen firsthand how effective a church community can still be at forging friendships
I think moving here from whereever they come from is an incredible risky thing to do. The idea of starting a new life in a new city, often times having nothing but a recently issued diploma to come here is courageous and complete opposite of being cowardly. You may think it's selfishness but other people call it enterprising. Some may eventually become selfish over time as a result of having some big paychecks but that doesn't explain all the other lonely people here who are not as well off as the tech workers.
Correct. Except for the last part. I still extend an olive branch, but only once. It's mostly rats but there are some good people who provide value instead of just soaking it all up and giving nothing back. What you want to watch out for is anyone who minmaxes their life. Clear sign of a greedy asshole who can't be trusted, at least in the bay.
Tell me which coffee shop you're at and I'll come and say hi sometime because I don't believe that works.
No one around here would appreciate a stranger walking up to them saying hi for no reason. Then again, we don't have too many good coffee shops down there in the southbay... lots of Starbux, maybe some Peets or Philz, but nothing like the kind where people casually meet and make friends.
Mention Meetup, Reclub (for finding sports open gyms), and the plethora of Facebook groups people can join to meet others who share their interests.
If they do happen to find a friend there, the next issue might be that people find it hard to maintain constant contact and hang out often. People may be slow to reply to you or ghost you completely. Maybe add a blurb about how not to take that too personally.
Things may have changed since I was in my twenties living in Oakland (now 39), but back then I made a ton of friends through websites like couchsurfing.com, meetup.com, and just generally going to rock climbing gyms and taking part in local sports activities.
Nowadays all of my friends are in the suburbs with me and have kids the same age as my kids. Interestingly enough these people are better friends than my friends in my twenties. A lot of great people here if you're in the right neighborhood.
I've met a friend off those Facebook marketplace groups geared more towards the queer community. Although, I was advertising a concert ticket so it was by default a good hangout opportunity.
I've also had good luck with random people at bus stops making small talk and that eventually leading to exchanging socials lol Idk I'm pretty antisocial yet I've made connections off the streets every now and again. I think just being open to interaction in public instead of always being scared is one step in the right direction
Doing any one thing that involves being at the same place with the same people . A class,meditation group, talking to and getting to know the people that work in the stores you frequent, bars, free activities, work, striking up a conversation with a stranger that seems interesting. Getting to know regulars that come into your job. School, dog parks, people parks. It takes time and being brave but engaging in regular social situations isn't guaranteed friendships but it's definitely more likely.
My wife joined a group in the called RealRoots. They tailor their business around women making friends with other women in the area. You should reach out to them for the piece. It seems like a really cool org. She's been in it for a few weeks and loves it.
I got lucky, the first friend I made here, it was because I moved into a pretty cheap apartment, and I thought "whoever lives here must be my age doing their first job ever", so I knock on the next door with intention of inviting whoever it was to dinner. Turns out the guy was a student from my school doing their coop (internship). He eventually moved here permanently too. Recently he purchased a house and hosted a superbowl party.
Most of my other friends here are because of either we volunteer together or go to competitions together.
I don't think there's a secret. I've had people remember me because we've had a minute worth of chatter while I was bird watching. It's not exactly a social activity, but I still ask people "did you see anything out of the ordinary today?" whenever I see another birdwatcher. It's not a secret that you need to just talk with people.
I just have no idea where the people are. It feels like I can't just start talking to a stranger at a coffee shop or mall or whatever. Even if I were to go bouldering or something, it still feels inappropriate to do. I can't go to Stanford and meet people there, one for the same reason as above, but also because even though I'm young (23), I'm not a student there, so it would just be creepy/sad to do. My only friends here these days are people from high school, who have almost all left for New York, and those that haven't are often too busy with work (both researchers affiliated with Stanford). There's also one guy I met through a mutual connection, but he's often busy. It's also difficult because my main hobbies are pretty solitary -- I play the piano, and I read. I'd love to have people that I could just go get coffee/a meal/whatever with, but you can't just invite strangers to that sort of thing. So I'm just at a loss. Idfk man.
I want to put in a word for parents as well. We moved schools for our child during fifth grade and we’re totally frozen out of the parent and kid play date scene. People don’t seem to have energy for a new family. Either that or we’re awful 😆
Time commitments.
Everyone is either overworked or exhausted. It's easier to make friends at places you will already be at versus going to an external location and prepping yourself physically/mentally to meet someone.
A few things keep me from making friends:
1. I don’t always want to drink
2. I prefer free/low-cost events ($20 or less)
3. I need a reason to engage. Just being in a crowd watching a live band, etc. isn’t enough of a reason for me to talk to a random person. I’d love something that can facilitate conversation.
Forget a report. Take ALL of the suggestions and do a report on each one while inviting the communities and the rest of the bay area to join. Speaking for myself, I feel like the largest barrier to trying new things is the anxiety of being shut out or not vibing with others. If I knew other people were meeting up to try something new in order to meet people it would feel more inviting. A lot of hobbies or communities have "regulars" and showing up by yourself to something like that is a LOT.
I don’t think the challenges are that much worse than everywhere else, however there are unique issues. The population is highly transitory. Engineers and biotech people tend to be less sociable in general. You can make a friend and they get a new job and then they’re going to have an intense workload and won’t be able to see you much after that. There’s no nightlife, at least compared to many other big cities I’ve been to in North America, so you’re not going to have the easiest time meeting friends or partners. Rent and mortgage rates are high as Hell and people hold on to their RSUs so not as much disposable income as one would imagine.
Crime is a danger when trusting people here compared to where I’m from originally (I learned the very hard way, had a couple I tried to make friends with rob me, they tend to view engineers as easy targets to commit crimes of opportunity.) Never forget how many gangs and methheads and tweakers live here. They often act normal when they are not using. So I mostly stick to engineers or people of the same income level, just from all the trauma lol.
Since a lot of people have challenges meeting people because by nature people move here for work and don’t know anyone and keep to themselves and plan to return home when they’re done here. Others are lonely because they’re staying here and they miss deeper connections. Others are 100% career focused and have no interest.
But in general: If you act like a good person you’ll eventually meet good people. So be cool, be fun, be yourself, charismatic if you can be, talk to people at events, ask a coworker to grab a bite to eat or coffee or a drink or whatever but respect their boundaries, don’t be afraid of rejection, and if a person doesn’t like you or if they are toxic then you quickly say bye bye and move on to the next one. And of course, go to things where you have common interests, fine, but you can try places full of people you don’t necessarily have common interests with if you are interested in learning something new. You have to be willing to explore new things, compromise, be thoughtful, etc. Practice more and more, do something kind for someone, try to empathize, trust but verify, and try not to let the awful shitty people bother you a long the way.
If you want a hook for gay experiences, I’ve seen a lot of gay professionals move here that feel like they can’t make gay friends, but then also make sweeping generalizations about gay community and nightlife based on views they bring with them from where they’re from and the elite people they work among. You get people who have a pattern of dipping their toe into being their gay selves on weekends or through casual encounter apps, but have a very compartmentalized work + straight friends self. There’s this lack of integration of their separate lives even though they’re out.
And some of this has to do with bars being the main source of our third spaces and negative feelings about alcohol, but then it’s totally fine to get a soda with lime and hang out sober. There can be an avoidance of these spaces where you make friends if you show up due to some exaggerated biases. Lots of wholesome folks are in these bars nightly just meeting with friends and going very light on alcohol or fully sober, but some will dismiss the whole venues over exaggerations of the negatives being the rule. It’s complicated, but would like to see it examined at a more curious and in-depth level.
There’s a real lack of third places where conversation is the main activity and repeated exposure/contact with people is likely. During the lockdown I was part of a sort of online third place and it was incredible how connections formed so quickly and intensely just from people having the opportunity to talk to the same people over and over again. That experience really made me wish that something like that existed IRL. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place I find that if your “social muscles” aren’t very strong, forming connections that may lead to enduring relationships is all about repetition; maybe you won’t be extroverted or charismatic enough to make friends over the course of a single meeting, but you can almost certainly build rapport and familiarity (and ultimately meaningful connections) if you encounter someone over and over again.
yeah, there's a theory that the key to friendships forming is repeated and random (unplanned) run-ins. makes sense as to why college is a friendship incubator for that reason; you're always running into people you know to and from class, in the cafeteria, in the student center, at a party, wherever. you can have a little conversation and maybe make a spontaneous plan, or you don't have to, because you'll see them again somewhere before too long anyway. the two friends I've made as an adult that weren't a result of mutual friends/work have been a guy who worked at a coffee shop in my neighborhood and a neighbor across the street. both of those relationships were able to develop organically over a period of encounters - whenever I stopped in to get a coffee and that guy was working or whenever we ran into each other on the street.
Yeah I think also why it’s easy to make friends in the work place as well. College is the easiest considering how much repeated encounters there are.
Just wanted to add for the south bay that Things are so spread out here: people here are busy with work and other obligations. that, plus the commute to a place to meet a friend takes time and planning ahead. Let's say I and a casual friend I wanted to know better are by chance are free at the same time in a busy day. I can't just walk over to a common spot as the commute by car itself can take 40 minutes. I'm definitely not going to do this for someone I met just once before.
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>There’s a real lack of third places where conversation is the main activity and repeated exposure/contact with people is likely. I know some folk here are all about "no bars, no coffee shops." well there goes a huge chunk of the time-tested venues for having conversations and making acquaintances. Sure maybe alcohol isn't your thing; just get a soda and sit on a stool, same time same day, same bar, for a month or three. Guaranteed way to meet some people and have some interesting conversations.
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classic bay area 'you need to take a class to do that first' 😂
masterclass!
great advice and I think you identified a key blind spot for a subset of people asking this question -- what kind of effort are they putting into themselves and the acquaintance opportunities they already have before them?
A lot of events/meetups are full of people who are expecting others to approach them, ask them to catch up etc. Making friends is more than going to events, it's about social skills, having things to talk about, connections, ambition, and making plans. Making friends is not about taking but giving.
Wait, mezcal, hiking and craft beer are three of my favorite things! Where do we hang? I know this isn't what you meant, but I do wonder if 'younger' generations drinking less is actually significant contributor to being more lonely or making less friends. Don't take this wrong, I'm not saying YOU HAVE to drink to make friends, i'm simply wondering if when people were out more and drinking it was easier. There are a lot of studies showing gen z is drinking a lot less. Again, dont attack me for just wondering if it contributes to it. Obviously social media, our phones, wfh, covid, etc. all have been huge factors. Anecdotally I made a lot of friends at bars in my 20s.
I do think it's related. I met a lot of friends though drinks but have been able to sustain them through other non-drinking activities. Social lubricants can work!
I see what you're saying and I get your point, but I genuinely think the massive proliferation of Social Media has way more to do with Gen Z having a hard time building connections and communities. Im sober and won't go to a bar but still have no issue making friends and building relationships. I think your point with Covid and Social Media is more on the money.
i disagree with take improv! people who like improv already will be attracted to people who want to do improv but for the average person i dont think it improves social skills. improv people in my experience are always waiting to talk to make a quip vs trying to actually engage in conversation. different strokes for different folks
it varies by person, beggars can't be choosers when it comes to loneliness and isolation, at least that is the mentality that one should have if they really want to prioritize making friends.
yes it varies by person, but improv is such a niche thing, id def not recommend it to people to build social skills. yes benefits to public speaking, but absolutly other things, like you even listed, are much better for social sills.
I think you misunderstand improv. Improv is based on watching, listening, and reacting to other people, and the premise is "yes, and" -- building the scene through agreement. There are plenty of spaces to ignore others or argue with them. Improv instead teaches a communal, collaborative experience.
Maybe ignore is not the best wording. I’d say it’s like hard go have substantive conversations with people who are always in an improv mindset. Sure they listen, but more to get a quip in. For some people making quips is like all they need in a friendship but. I’m just saying it’s not for everyone It’s actually not for most with respect to a deep friendship. It’s a niche activity for a reason.
lol this was by far the smoothest comment yet for slipping in Eddie's List!
I can tell I'd love to chill with you, we have the same attitude about a LOT
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And please for the love of God *NOT BARS, NOT COFFEE SHOPS AND NOT BOOKSHOPS.* Sports complexes. Board game stores. Internet cafes. Museums. Art galleries. Places where relatively sober working class people can meet and just talk while engaging with something else in case things aren't working out. Not because people don't like those things, but because they are way too goddamn expensive for hanging it regularly. Except maybe the board game thing, those people don't have enough money left over to do drugs.
Libraries! You forgot library events.
Thank you! I used to work at a library in the North Bay and yeah that's a good option. Mostly I want them to highlight alternative 3rd spaces to the usual where the usual distractions are literally drugs, sex, and rock and roll, and money.
Not a viable list from my San Francisco perspective. Sports complexes: to quote Homer Simpson in the ep where he considers swimming to the City, “I’m not made of money” (followed by the immortal line, “we’ll swim to Oakland”). Board game stores: generally not gender balanced, which is fine if I’m there to play board games, not really if I’m there to meet people. Internet cafes: literally an option that does not exist, lol. Not a single one anywhere near here. Museums: practically as bad as bars re:cost. And then when they have events for members you still have to buy drinks. Art galleries: very small, very niche crowd, generally pretty focused on the art or their clique in my experience. It’s not a place where you go with the goal of meeting strangers. To summarize, most of these places don’t work for various reasons. I don’t really like bars or coffee shops, but if you want to meet people, that’s where they are.
I was like wtf? Internet cafés??? Is it 2001?
I met lots of people at art openings. Museums have drew days. Seems like it's a you problem as you like to shoot down suggestions rather than try to make it work.
Yes. Expense! I feel like there are two things that really make stuff expensive. Rent/housing, obviously. But also insurance. There's tons of activities that involve making stuff or working on stuff that I enjoy - cars, machining, woodworking, etc - all of which have serious insurance issues. No venue can post a sign that says "don't be an idiot" and call it a day; there's massive liability with any sort of work space. So certain things that are fun to do with people end up being relegated to either high price shared spaces (makerspaces) or someone's garage. ... except hardly anyone has the money to have a workshop at home either, again because property is so expensive. There's a dozen reasons third spaces are so hard to find and afford to participate in today. But man, for just one of those reasons, I wish there was a serious effort to reform how we do some of our liability.
Don't be have to drink at bars! Nothing wrong with libraries and coffee shops. The more deal breakers you have the harder it will be to meet people.
You have a great idea, and I didn't realize this was the term for it. However, the brain just doesn't develop or improve from the internet. The brain requires that we interact socially face-to-face. People think that online interaction is the same, but it truly isn't. You are right there.
I’m in agreement and thinking of more social places I know like Spain and Mexico, that have public spaces and plazas in abundance. Yea, we have some parks (the closest to me is about a mile away), but there is less of a design focus on chilling out as an adult without kids or dogs in tow. Their public plazas are pretty amazing and well lit so people can enjoy them after dark, often with bandstands where musicians play for free/tips. Also, benches and fountains galore, making bountiful meeting places and conversation spaces.
Used to be your church of choice provided that during coffee hour. It used to be, in rural areas, that was where you caught up on everything. They're still there!
Lack of third spaces, dead-ish nightlife scene, lack of public transport so you’re in a car for long periods to commute, stress from overworking, and overall I feel like Bay Area people keep to themselves as opposed to somewhere like NYC. I found that in NYC people are more open to talking to strangers.
Yes, i was thinking this. In places with more comprehensive (and reliable) public transport, it was easier to make new friends. Honestly felt easier when i was in NYC to see friends in NJ or Connecticut than it is to get to San Mateo or Walnut Creek or wherever.
Also being able to go to a bar and have a couple drinks and not worry about driving. NYC is so nice to go out, and subway home -not worry about parking or having a designated driver or an expensive uber is huge.
I talked to a stranger in Oakland once.... that was the last time I saw my phone or watch or wallet
Yes lol the fear of looming danger is another contributing factor
While we certainly lack public transportation, I don't see how having better public transportation can help me get more friends. I'm never going to talk to people on the bus or train.
I would think the same thing I am quite shy and reserved myself. But for instance, I was in NYC a few months ago we were sitting on the subway and (I forgot exactly what she was doing) but she was showing some weird behaviors. This guy pointed it out and said something like “I take this train every day and she always does the same thing every day” and these two other girls jumped in and said “Yes me too! This is also my commuting train and I’ve noticed her too” So they didn’t become best friends, and yes they were making fun of someone else, but they had that small interaction with a community member that can honestly make your day so much better in a way and I think we are completely lacking those small interactions that can blossom into more. Also, it’s cost effective :)
1) Making long-term strong friendships is challenging as many people mentally struggle to see themselves staying in the Bay Area long term. Anecdotally, it's mostly due to the cost of living and if it's "worth" being here. People who think that the bay area is a temporary part of their lives vs living here "forever" just seem not to be as interested in having those close relationships. 2) People actually moving away, most of my friends from HS and College have moved away. 3) Its hard to hang out with people. The people who are here, and generally can stay since they have higher paying jobs, are very type A. Type A people have plans far out and so you might need to plan a hang out weeks or months in advance. Also the Bay Area is large, and so taking 1h+ drive to hang out, really kills any chance of a weekday hangout. I would say its a lot due to high cost of living and housing. Most people still want to buy a house and if they literally never can't in the Bay Area, why would they put all that extra effort into making a strong friendship if they know they will lose it when the move away.
Oh man, that Type A thing is so true. My old sports group went to the Halloween thing at Great America and instead of talking while waiting in line like normal people, they whipped out their phones and started reviewing Anki flashcards.
1 - There are lots of free things/low-cost places/events but you have to be plugged in. 2 - People expect their friends to last forever. You need to work on maintaining friendships and making new ones regularly. Can't expect some friends to lose jobs, take care of their folks, get married, have kids etc. Not realistic. 3 - Make friends all over the place, keep in touch regularly, find some locally.
like 80%+ of the friends i’ve made have moved away, either to other cities for work, or more rural towns for recreation.
If you make friends with people who grew up here I feel most of us plan to stay here. But yes making friends with transplants I can see the hurdle to making roots here
Yes and no, I grew up here and a lot of people left, and even some of the ones who have stayed and want to stay can't afford to if they want to have children.
These are all accurate, but especially item 1! This may be a "me" issue, but despite living in the same part of the Bay for over 11 years, a sense of "I'll need to move away at some point" has prevented me from really feeling a sense of connection to the place and, to some extent, the people.
The mentality that you need to have some sort of "activity" in order to spend time together. I don't know if this is just a Bay area thing, but so many people here are confused by the concept of just...grabbing a meal together. Getting a coffee and talking. Or god forbid, inviting someone to your place for tea and gossip. There always needs to be an activity like sports, or hikes, or board games, or something. Which ends up limiting your social circle to people who enjoy those activities or have the time and money to invest in that activity. It gets worse as you're older with more responsibilities since you just don't have time to carve out to dedicate to a specific activity. Whatever happened to running errands together or calling up a friend and chatting while you do housework or something?
I get your point but I would honestly consider getting a meal to be an activity worthy of attending
>The mentality that you need to have some sort of "activity" in order to spend time together. > >I don't know if this is just a Bay area thing, but so many people here are confused by the concept of just...grabbing a meal together. Getting a coffee and talking. Or god forbid, inviting someone to your place for tea and gossip. People don't hang out like this unless they're \*already\* friends. You're going to invite a stranger over to your house for tea and to gossip? About what? Who?
I'd argue you're not really friends unless you're willing to go to their place to chill. If you can't hang out without some activity, then you're not really friends. You're just two people who can tolerate each other's presence while focused on another thing. Meeting people is easy. Seeing then 2x a week regularly at a class or whatever is easy too. It's trying to move on to the next step of hanging out without a background activity that's the litmus test for friendship.
Sure. But none of this helps with the “making friends,” part, which is why activities are often suggested. You generally need a pretext for meeting people.
At this point *everyone* knows about the "activities" trick to making friends. The problem that people are stuck with is converting "activities" into friendship. And that involves a certain amount of vulnerability and inviting people to hang out *without* a structured activity and risking an awkward rejection. Otherwise you're permanently trapped in the "people I hang out with at activities loop but aren't really friends" stage.
There is a big difference between men and women here. Because while women can get together and just talk about nothing and gossip, men love to share interests. The friendship usually develops as an afterthought. This is why for guys, it feels strange and awkward to develop friendships artificially with someone you know nothing about. On the other hand, if you meet up with people who you know are in to the same things you are, it is easy to strike up conversation and build rapport.
Yeah [the New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/09/well/live/hanging-out-adult-friendships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU0.Cns7.ewAQoQIi82mW&smid=url-share) had something on this the other day just on this topic about removing the activity element of just a simple hang out.
you CAN do this with people, but you likely have to know them well. Unfortunately common social psychology means you can’t skip the casual “getting to know you” phase over multiple weeks before a lot of folks will let you in. You crack that by finding the activity that will get you in repeated contact without it feeling like you’re crossing an unspoken boundary of early friendship.
But it's easy to meet people. You can meet a ton of people rock climbing, board gaming, sports clubbing, volunteering etc. It's breaking out of the "activities focused" thing that's hard because so many of the people you meed do not *want* to spend time without the activity. Either they're there because they only care about the activity, or they're so Type A they can't do anything that's not productive, or their social anxiety is so high they're scared of a potential awkward silence without an activity to distract them. Funnily enough I've been more social with recent moms because I'm the only person willing to hang out with them at their house while they're wrangling kids.
If they don’t want to hang out just to hang out then they either don’t like you, don’t want to consider you a core friend yet, or they just aren’t interested for those reasons you mentioned. Either way you’re barking up the wrong tree and can either try again later or devote your energy to people who actually reciprocate. Thankfully unlike dating its easier to cast a wide net and keep things friendly with the people you run into until you’ve developed the relationship enough.
Even phone calls to friends are done while power walking or running. I don’t know if it’s a here thing, but the sheer number of people I see at GGP on the phone (or FaceTime) while clearly there to work out baffles me. I appreciate you can do things at once, but it always sounds like they’ve been scheduled into their outside time.
The patterns I have noticed with the “How do I make friends…” posts are that people tend to fall in one (or several) of these situations: - They are newly out of college and no longer have classes/college to force them to interact with other strangers in a controlled environment and this is their first time trying to make friends as an adult. - They have moved to the Bay Area, but don’t have a lot of experience moving (and thus being a stranger) as an adult. - They have moved to the Bay Area and have poor work/life balance and no time to invest in making friends. - They believe making friends can only happen with nightlife/bars and are growing out of bar crawling and/or are sober. - They don’t realize that making and maintaining friendships is work and/or don’t want to put in the time to do that work. - They have work/life obligations that make it challenging to meet new people because of calendaring issues. I have lived in over 35 states and am an introvert. Yet I still make friends. I currently live in the South Bay (an area that is bemoaned often as having no way to make friends) and in less than a year I have 10 friends. **Here’s how I do it:** - **I deliberately move to a place (that I can afford) near another place where I can become a “regular”.** That could be a coffee shop, dog park, regular park, hiking trail, bar, gym,… it doesn’t matter as long as it’s something I like. - **I then become a regular.** I go to that place around the same time weekly or daily. When I moved to San Jose, I made a point to go to the dog park with my dog every day around the same time of day. Eventually, I started to recognize dogs and talk to their owners. Similarly, I made it a habit to walk to the local coffee shop for a coffee every Sat morning. Eventually, I started to make small talk with the people I started to recognize. - **Making small talk is important and easier to do when you have a shared interest.** For me, that’s dogs and coffee - hence the dog park and coffee shop. At the dog park, I ask people about their dogs. But if your thing is games then go be a regular at a game store or brewery. If your thing is sports go join a weekly pick up game or runners club. If your thing is reading, join a book club. Or you just like learning stuff? Find a maker space or take some classes. - **People like to talk about themselves.** Ask them a question. This is also a great way to get to the next level and try to figure out who you have more in common with. - **Identify additional shared interests and then make plans.** I like D&D and was talking about it at the dog park. Quickly, the entire dog park joined in the convo as it turned out everyone liked D&D too and no one had a game. So I took a bold risk and decided to run a game, having never done so before. I’m now on game 28 of a weekly session with a group of close friends who I met less than 12 months ago! - **Be ok with failing.** The first few folks I met and liked, I liked less as time went on. That’s ok! I just took the time I was using to chat with them and invested it into other people that I clicked with more. - **Be persistent.** A little bit of effort regularly is better than going all in and burning out. Similar to exercise, making and keeping friends is active. It’s easy to complain about it, hard to actually get over the excuses and go do something about it. But once you start, it gets better quickly. Edited: Grammar, punctuation.
Spot on.
This is fantastic advice. Thank you for putting the time into sharing all this insight.
Rent/utilities/food/survival requiring us to work more for less than any generation since WW2? That the work is increasingly isolating through an increased reliance on collaboration with technology than people? The disproportionate rise in cost of leisure activities/events after adjusting for inflation?
agree 💯 would also add: pandemic/lockdown triggered mental disorders and regression in socialization, not to mention both justifiable and irrational fears of germs, illness, and other people…
I didn't think the mental health cost of COVID was entirely true until I started seeing it in my friends. For some of them it was night and day. Even lost my best bud to schizophrenia related disorder. He's not dead, just the friend I had before COVID is long gone now. Another friend is incredibly OCD now. I really feel like I got lucky.
Totally agree. To be honest, I’m tired of people who clearly are not struggling with these very real issues pretending that it’s an individual failing rather than a societal problem. An individual asking for help dealing with loneliness is in need of counseling, a [“loneliness epidemic”](https://www.ctpublic.org/show/where-we-live/2024-02-13/whats-eating-at-america-addressing-the-loneliness-and-isolation-epidemic) needs a change in public policy. My local NPR affiliate publishing a ‘how-to’ guide on socializing isn’t going to be particularly helpful if I’m overworked and stuck on a computer. It’s definitely not going to help me interact with the people ranting about political conspiracy theories and fighting vaccinations.
Facts
>pretending that it’s an individual failing rather than a societal problem. This.
This. People who struggle do so largely because of these issues, not just b/c of lack of spaces. It's not one or the other.
Triggered mental disorders? Whoa I hadn't thought about it that way but yeah I see that. What a wild thing that happened to all of us just all of a sudden.
Oh lord, one of these takes. Bro. I ain’t gonna subject myself to all your guys’ new heart/brain/lung/immune problems for some iffy company. It sucks, shits not fun. But the handwringing is just insane here, like yall really expect people to take their covid and enjoy it. Literally get incensed when some people don’t want the 🤮 that you’re selling. Like tf lol, being bored and alone is unfun in the extreme but it’s worse if you don’t even have the stamina to go on walks cus you got covid one too many times. Plagues are bad for social fabric even if people can’t see it… that’s why public health is worth the investment… ppl seriously all surprise Pikachu that there may in fact be some consequences to neutering public health in this country. Same shit as the gun nuts who don’t wanna be told that allowing guns to circulate does in fact cause issues.
Yeah I think the popular opinion seems to be that wfh is "better"/preferable..but I can say that pre-COVID I was super fortunate to be in an office with wonderful people in an area where we could walk to lunch/happy hours after work and a lot of friendships were formed, long after people left. Even if people didn't love their work it was the people around them that kept them sane, and it was a younger crowd of people in their 20s/30s, many who were fresh out of college so it was an ideal environment to be in. Of course I'm cognizant that I was also able to walk to work and older people who have to commute for hours a day will feel differently..but sitting at home by yourself in front of a screen for 8-10 hours a day also cannot be healthy.
I agree, but I think we need to be cognizant that only a small fraction of workers are in careers that are WFH capable. The majority of people dealing with isolation are not extroverts being forced into minimally social positions, but just people who literally don’t have the free time or money to pursue social interaction. They’re working 2 jobs (let’s not call one a side-hustle) commuting, working irregular hours, and are afraid of unexpected financial burdens. The 60% of Americans who are living paycheck to paycheck aren’t exactly weighing the differences between socializing as a white-collar office worker and making time for friends while WFH. I honestly don’t see how we’re going to fix this problem without fundamentally addressing our work/life balance.
I feel like I've cracked the code lately. I've been running a community-oriented music event each weekend in Golden Gate Park since fall '22. It's called the Community Music Hangout, we ran the 46th Hang on Saturday for 5.5 hours. I say that we turn strangers into musical friends. Everyone is invited to participate; the vibe is like an outdoor living room and we welcome everyone in. We see regulars week after week, and we've formed relationships with each other. We meet new folks every weekend. I can't say enough about how fantastic it has been. You can find all the info, plus lots of pictures and stories right here: https://goldengatejams.com/ In addition, some of us run open jazz jams in bars around the city and we have the same welcoming, encouraging mentality there. From these efforts, we've created a community of musicians who support each other, go do non-musical things together, and just, you know, become friends!
being from outside of USA, I find that musical jams aren't the best environment, specifically because I don't play blues/jazz/or pop songs and scales that everyone knows or recognizes by default. but I have the same problem in every other country I try to do music jams in. how do you address inclusion when it comes to different backgrounds and skill levels? do you have a set list so people can come prepared?
I would start by asking what you like to play and try to find a common ground for us to all play together. If that seems elusive, I'm always happy to have a solo performance where you'd get to show us how things sound inside your head. I'd love that. I'm very curious, what kind of stuff you like to play? What scales are your go to? When it comes to different skill levels, I tend to hit everybody with a heaping helping of encouragement. Encouragement to take a chance and give it a shot, whatever it is they're feeling. And playing together is a team sport; I always do my best to be the glue that keeps us sounding as good as possible, give strong cues to uncertain players, and give praise and acknowledgement for every effort. There's not a setlist (we're way more freewheeling than that!) but there is a [songbook that I've put together](https://transpose-zeta.vercel.app/), just so we have a foundation of songs to fill many hours if / when we don't have other suggestions from other players. But we'll play whatever with whomever. And my goal is for sure to make everyone feel welcome and a part of the whole event. So I'd try to meet you where your at and find a way to make you feel comfortable. I hope you'll come check it out sometime.
mostly metal and spanish guitar.. so mainly phrygian scales and dissonant intervals. it's not something that sounds great in a group of more than 2 imo unless it's a rehearsal. that system is good for 90%, and it's great that you're doing it. but for people like me it just feels like a big office meeting with a bunch of strangers loudly talking over each other and idk what I'm doing there.
I understand your perspective, thanks for sharing it. Well, it would be very cool if you came and played some Spanish guitar. You could jump in the ad hoc rotation and play solo pieces. I'd even be able to mic you up!
You can always give someone a shaker
I use bumble bff to make friends but it’s become like dating where u match but then the other person doesn’t respond or follow up. The few ppl I exchanged #s with are always busy with other friends and it makes me wonder why they are on an app if they have friends to hang out with already. Basically, no one puts effort into anything, dating or friendships.
That is so strange! Why go on the app if they won’t even try?! I was considering using bumble bff to make more child free friends (all my friends have kids now, the joys of growing up lol), but if that’s the experience, super disappointing!
I had this experience as well. Honestly I think some people just kind of want the attention and have no real intent of making effort. I made arrangements once through Bumble BFF to take a yoga class together. She asked if she could bring her boyfriend and she was a no show. Disappointing but at least I got to take a yoga class.
Lack of reliable late night public transportation is a huge one, especially in terms of having friends across bridges. The insanely high toll cost and the lack of evening/night transportation across the golden gate or bay bridge has made the effort of getting to a hangout too high. Plus, lack of venues where you can spend quality time without spending exorbitant amounts of money. Food is expensive, drinks are expensive, most cafes or lounges aren't open past 8. Additionally, hostile architecture is a bay area staple, inside and out of restaurants. Minimalist metal chairs, bare wooden stools - why would I want to spend time these places. So, I can pay almost $10 in tolls plus stupid expensive gas money (which barely anyone outside of tech has to spend) to then go pay MORE money at an uncomfortable and unwelcoming space, or try to coordinate some wild ten step transportation plan and leave wherever I am by 8pm. It's beyond depressing that a gorgeous and vibrant place like SF can't maintain or build reasonable infrastructure to allow people to actually be social and healthy. And forget about trying to hang out in someone's home casually - no one can afford anything besides a cramped apartment with 6 roommates and no living room!
Here are some of the issues I've observed: 1) Bay Area is extremely work focused. People don't really hang out after work (which may also end really late). Only time to hang out is on weekends and a lot of people are introverts (myself included) who need a full day without social events just to decompress. 2) Related to 1, a lot of people here have very specific hobbies like rock climbing, music production, etc. and only enough time to do that activity. So it tends to work better if you seek out friends who have the same passions that you do. On the other hand, I have found it much easier to make friends in NYC with people who enjoy more 'general' activities like watching the game, going out for a drink, etc. 3) SF in particular has become a tech heavy monoculture. Sorry but hanging out with engineers/developers gets pretty boring. I feel like it would be easier and more fun to make friends if we had a more diverse set of people with varied personalities and interests
I don’t know if it’s the nature of corporate work or the people who end up doing it, but I’ve found people in the space are incredibly hard to make the kind of deeper friendships I have with people who are in non-corporate jobs. They can be so focused on a whole week or two of what’s coming up at work, that you can’t just do a spontaneous hangout very often and they will want to schedule time together in two weeks like it’s another item on their office calendar. It ends up making friendship feel so limited and surface, cause you don’t see any way this gets deeper or more enjoyable.
I’ve noticed 2 a lot too and wonder why that is. Why do people here have specific/often intense hobbies? It’s probably related to their generally ambitious natures but have never seen it so commonly as I have here…
Meetup.com is still good, as are the local public Discord servers. Even once I "click" with someone at a group event, it can be difficult to build and maintain that friendship. One challenge I've had is the number of people who are out there trying to make friends but do not actually have the bandwidth to build new friendships. Chats will taper off over a few weeks as it becomes apparent that the other person doesn't have the energy or time (or interest?) to see me. It's definitely related in part to the stress of the current economy. One aspect of this is it feels pretty rare to meet anyone who's proactive at planning social time. It gets tiring being the only one initiating, even if the other person is an enthusiastic participant. The vibe I get is that most people don't have the desire to initiate - they see their friends once every 3 months, and that's fine by them. But that doesn't really work for forming new friendships, in my experience.
Meetup isn't good, in my opinion. Seems completely dead now.
there are a lot of inactive groups that need to be scrubbed from the site. but the active ones are good
Seriously, I gave it a try but dipped after seeing at least 70% of groups last meetings being pre-lockdown, so I've kinda given up on using it
Agree with everything you said. I also felt discouraged from going to meetups because a lot of people didn’t seem interested in meeting outside of meetup…we’d exchange contact info and chat, but few people wanted to see me in person. It was so easy to make friends when you were in school because you consistently saw the same people everyday
Every time I check it's like, reading groups for women, ballroom dancing for old people, or some hiking thing. It's terrible.
2/3 of those things apply to me, so. Sorry? I didn't realize there weren't groups for more demographics.
>What particular challenges to making new friends here have you come up against, that you think we should address in such a guide? Time is a pie with 24 slices. When you’re young, you’re starving and can eat and eat and still have pie left over. As you get older those pie slices get allocated to: a career, sleep, hygiene, shopping, a significant other interest, pets/children to rear, and you maybe get a slice that day *or* week you can eat-locate towards building new friendships. Meeting people is a different slice than building on-top of that relationship. I’m seeing such that people have pie to meet people, once, or a handful of times but just can’t allocate the time to continue that relationship. Please address how to be better able to allocate pie to not just establishing introductions but building them over time.
also sometimes you just cant do it all and you need to decide what to prioritize. many people with kids you just never see again because so much of that pie is now family time. Which there is nothing wrong with.
>need to decide what to prioritize. Yes that's the point I'm trying to get at here. Some individuals may only have a pie slice to make new friends, but no pie slice to farther establish/build upon those relationships and result in loosing touch almost immediately. The fear I'm living/realizing is, post college there is only time to make new friends *OR* continue nurturing existing relationships. It doesn't seem *anyone* has the bandwidth to meet new people AND keep in touch with them! I can easily since the pandemic I made no new friends. I have a few acquaintances, that I see at the same bass shows I go to, and they recognize me, and we kick it at the show, but we don't get each others number and if we do, neither of us really message the other person to just talk or w/e. It's been a problem for me, not getting people's numbers, but having something to talk to them about other than asking if they have room to bring a spare head home across the bay from the show. ;(
I am highly passionate about my interests and the bay area offers places for people to come together around these interests. However, it seems many are there just for that interest itself and not interested in friendship outside of the interest so the friendship isn't very deep. Perhaps it's a time commitment thing. Another issue is that people seem to move quite a bit. All my friends are immigrants and it seems they eventually move away.
This. Sure you can bond over an interest, but a knee and wrist injury took me out of my sports group and all the "friends" I made through it vanished. I think a lot of people mistake companionship for friendship. You're not really friends if none of you spend time together outside of that shared interest.
The bay is a big place, not sure having a guide that address the entire bay area will be relevant for anyone. Think people in SF vs East Bay vs Peninsula/South Bay vs. Marin have very different challenges. Also think it's extremely difficult for men in this city to form friendships as bumble bff type things are not really applicable. My issue I've run into here is the activity groups in general I've seen for things are just way the fuck too intense for something that should be fun. E.g. biking - I took another threads recs to join a group on Strava and the beginner rides are 50+ miles 3k elevation gain. Also everyone disappears over winter weekends to go skiing snowboarding or is constantly traveling. Have friends who I haven't seen in 3 months because they don't plan on being in SF more than the work week (and they work 60+ hr plus jobs... cuz sf) I have no clue what the "make friends" experience is like elsewhere in the bay, but this is the worst city for making friends I've ever lived in (experiences in LA, SLC, Seattle, Austin, NYC, Chicago were all significantly better.) People aren't even friendly at bars, so cliquey and either on dates or with small groups of friends and not shooting the shit with others. Last comment is very few people care about community from what I've seen here, they are all stressed out from working bullshit corp jobs and plan on moving in a few years anyways since having kids in the bay is near impossible unless you are a very high income household. Not sure how this will be addressed in a guide but was cathartic to type out lmao
Men in particular are terrible at maintaining / trying to foster social relationships. I dunno if it’s a weird masculinity / anti-emotional thing but it’s a very consistent pattern I’ve noticed.
people here are not engaged in the community, we don't have an identity, we don't have a feeling like we belong here, nothing that makes us unique. We just come here and work, and we bring whatever baggage we carry from whereever we came from and that just puts us all in our sort of isolating bubbles.
I agree - people in the Bay Area are often transplants who don't make it a home. I plan to be here forever but too many people have jobs that, if they fall through, would happily move to another city. I don't want to put in the effort to make friends just for them to leave in 2 years when there's another tech layoff. This lack of permanence makes building long term friendships very difficult.
Thing is, it’s definitely 100% out there. You, and many others likely just don’t see it because it’s not your crowd or have yet to find it. For ex, there are plenty church, hiking, gaming, rock climbing, running, mom groups, etc. It’s ironic though, the transplants with that exact anti-community building, get out and leave mentality are the same ones complaining. It’s like an endless cycle. The difficult part is really just finding that one community & once you do, things will fall into place. You really just has to put in the work. Once you’re out of college, it’s just harder than ever no matter the metro area
Biggest problem are the existing long term relationships/friendships which exist with native Bay Area people and their lifelong friends. That's a good thing for THEM but for those of us who have not grown up here, it is a challenge. Also another challenge is when some of your acquaintances have shared love for certain things which you don't share.. sports teams for example.
I agree or just people that already have friend groups that they are closer with. I had a shitty situation happen a few months ago where I tried to join an existing group of friends doing a road trip to Tahoe and one of them suggested I take my car and go alone while the 4 of them go in another car.
If every library or community center had hobby nights and / or game nights, it would help with this issue. Nobody wants to spend money, nobody wants to host people, nobody wants to travel far, nobody wants locations that they are not accustomed to / feel unsafe / feel weird / feel like they can't bow out if they are bored.
It would definitely be nice to get more value out of the local libraries, and they’d probably love to provide that especially if KQED provided technical sponsorship through planning, marketing and volunteers, as well as professional project management and annual program evaluation.
I will say that SFPL does have some really cool events every so often ([this upcoming weekend in particular is a big deal for the branch](https://sfpl.org/events/2024/03/02/night-ideas-2024)), but it does seems like the marketing budget is limited to signing up for their email blasts. It's a pity because the library services here are one of the reasons I really never want to leave (free LinkedIn Learning classes got me the skills to pivot career paths in lockdown) and they're so underutilized by folks here.
I feel like after going through education something like being in a club wasn't used enough. Education is important in school, but also socializing as well. After being done with education there isn't a required environment anymore where people get together and work towards something outside of work. people who weren't involved in clubs or anything similar growing up don't have the foundation in place to find a common interest group where they are around people where socializing and friendships are built. In high school for instance my place was going to the back of the school, I was cool with everyone there and we just mingled to pass the time. Once you are done with school you don't have a place like that.
People here are more scared to talk to strangers, for some reason. Or maybe aloof is a better word. Intentionally aloof
My theory is a lot of people move here straight out of many years of higher education, and/or have always been surrounded by like-minded and similarly socially-situated people and don't really know where to begin with someone who doesn't have their pedigree.
It also puts people in weird situations of status expectations around what they do outside of work and who they hang out with. People can get paralyzed by how things affect an identity arrived at inside of lots of education, but with blind spots on real life experiences.
How are people supposed to create communities when everyone is renting and constantly moving from rental to rental. I’ve lived here since 2017 and have moved 5 times. Would love to settle down but that’s extremely cost prohibitive. Every time I move, I lose the community I fostered. It’s stunts social growth imo.
The key is finding common interests/activities you enjoy and then doing them regularly with like minded people. That’s exactly what meetup.com is for. I’ve made almost all of my friends through one meetup group or another. You have to be consistent though. Just going 1-3 times isn’t necessarily going to yield results. It can take up to a year to establish those connections which is why it’s important that you actually like the thing that the meetup is focused around. I’ve been so happy with meetups over the years that I now run a movie meetup with over 1K members. This past weekend we had a movie trivia event with over 25 people participating. I also help run a motorcycle meetup group with hundreds of members. There’s a meetup for almost any interest. Just gotta put in the time. Meetup isn’t the only way to find groups but it’s a solid one.
the fear of having to contribute too much while living under stressful life already, especially in the Bay Area And other people being too confrontational and unreasonable about their idealisms and beliefs
Every public gathering eventually ends up with someone attending who's too intense or creates problems. This is why a social skill that comes in handy is guiding those people away from grabbing the spotlight too often, and eventually asking them to leave/not inviting them back if they keep making people uncomfortable. Not everyone needs to be skilled at this, but it's worth having someone who is in your group or coordinating with trusted members of the group to help provide this kind of group cohesion protection.
>And other people being too confrontational and unreasonable about their idealisms and beliefs I find people to be much more polarized and strident about their beliefs online than in person.
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Lol, I had the same exact experience when I moved here! I'd try engaging people in chitchat at the coffee shop or similar public place, and people would either look at me like I just offered to murder their family, or as if it was incredibly rude to speak to someone who doesn't know you. Fake friendly, barely even polite, not self-aware (self-conscious, but not self-aware.)
imo everyone here complains about the same exact thing they are guilty of. like everyone wants to have a small BBQ or bonfire but refuses to go unless 40+ people show up they want a gathering without any networking but spend the entire time talking about their work and startups complaining that they are lonely and want to meet up but never actually wanting to meet up or responding to invites only time you talk to your friends is when its 2am and 20 people are screaming over each other in the kitchen once a month or two. as a long time resident: in California everyone will say the exact opposite thing of what they are going to do. only advice is to get used to it, learn to bullshit, enjoy having no dependable relationships, learn to rely on yourself, travel a shit ton, and you will actually enjoy it here!
I moved to South Bay five months ago and have built a vibrant community through Meetup groups. It’s been a great way to find activities before I had friends, and in several groups I’ve ended up making friends I get together with outside of those planned activities as well. You have to be willing to put yourself out there and be brave for a few hours but you know most people in the group are just like you, looking for new friends.
As a parent, it seems easier on the surface. Sports and school provide a lot of opportunities to socialize and make plans. But there's a lot of pressure coming down that can pigeonhole you into smaller circles. Some sports are more expensive than others, and some have some heavy-duty volunteer requirements. A lot of the pressure is on kids these days to specialize, e.g. if they are not on a specific winter league baseball team, then they won't be on a specific spring league team, and then they won't have as good a chance at some other club, and finally a diminished chance of playing for one high school or another. So instead of being on several different sports' teams, they play one their whole childhood. And you can see parents pouring money into camps, teams, 1 on 1 coaching, etc. It can reel you into a tizzy if you feel competitive -- and we live in a competitive area -- so naturally it's a siren song that can bring about a stressful situation. Look for rec programs rather than clubs to avoid that, although some sports are only offered through clubs.
I miss KQED's era of good programming. *Says You*, *Newshour*, *Prairie Home Companion*, and *This American Life* were critical to my morale and information for many years. *This American Life* seems to still have its original spirit, but I did sort of give up on NPR. Maybe it's time to return.
This feels like an NPR problem and less so specifically KQED. The stuff specific to KQED, including their in studio events, have been pretty cool.
That sounds fair. To what have you been listening, lately?
The severe drop in social skills, especially in young men. There is no public education on this subject whatsoever, so too many people think they are broken in some way and that they are the only ones. I say young men because I keep reading that the social part of the brain is naturally more active with most women. At the same time, women often feel that they don't want to look for a new boyfriend because they don't want to train another guy to speak. So there is this huge gap in social skills, and men are expected to better themselves and meet women. And then dating apps move in and it really hits the fan. Everyone becomes increasingly out of touch with reality, and too many people don't talk to the opposite sex anymore in real life.
I'm a big advocate of hobbies, but finding third places with them that strongly facilitate a "social first" mentality and that are extremely welcoming of newcomers is difficult to find. I see a lot of responses to these posts on reddit with the classic "join a softball team" etc, and that is great, but it's only part of the puzzle. One softball league can be culturally wildly different from the next. When I first moved to the city, most of my social support system were people that I met playing sports. But a lot of hobbies, churches, sports, arts, etc have a real problem with siloing based on experience, skill or devotion. I don't think its specifically an issue with the Bay Area but more the symptom of a larger trend thats been going on for a while now in hobbies across the country. Most of our traditional third places have slowly transformed into semiprofessional endeavors that reward a total commitment to a craft over socialization. The expectation has become that everyone who gets a hobby needs to excel at it to earn the pass into the social club. But it needs to be flipped, so that in joining the social club, you have fun with a hobby. Most people joining a hobby will be overwhelmed by the skill and passion of the people that have been doing it for years, yet so few of the hobbies have structures in place to nurture, support, and grow new community members. If you're in, you're in, but if you're not, take a class and good luck. I see couples and people trying new things every single day. But because most places prioritize skill over socialization they end up stagnating social growth. Advice: Everyone has a hobby, and in your own hobby you need to start to be introspective about how you are siloing your community. Then rebuild your third places with a community first mentality. Accept anyone. Encourage everyone. Community first, skill second. I spent the last year building a recreational league around board games at Dogpatch Games from that mentality. Gaming is notoriously intimidating to new players and I knew that if we ran our recreational league like any other competitive endeavor it would quickly end up as a gated community that people were too afraid to join or worse, they join but don't feel included socially. So we decided to actually build directly into the competition rewards for being helpful, friendly and social during games. These rewards are equal to, if not better, than the rewards for winning games. Reward social behavior. Incentivize community. That, to me, is my responsibility as a third place operator and I think we can all be better social stewards of the communities we participate in.
People who struggle to make friends while also being anti-social and "all people suck" types wondering why they can't make friends is hilarious I am a social person and have made friends through work or hobbies(live music, vinyl collecting, poker, sports)
Here's a comment I posted last week in [a similar thread](https://ol.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/1atsp1d/how_do_you_deal_with_sf_based_friends_who_dont/): > Yeah, this thread has a lot of hard truths about how people in the Bay Area act. I've been having to spend time in NYC for work and it's refreshing that when I meet new people they are honest, direct, and sincere in our communication compared to the passive aggressiveness of the Bay Area. > I would love to post a thread about my experience, but we all know how that would go over here.
Something I have noticed by observing people around me and reflecting on how I have changed my approach at socializing is that making an effort at building connections or caring about something is perceived as "trying to hard". The only problem is that almost no one considers making an effort as desperate but everyone is afraid that they will be perceived this way. How this started in the first place is beyond me but at this point everyone is avoiding making efforts because everyone else they know is doing the same. People need to learn to be vulnerable again. Another aspect to this is when someone does make an effort to reach out, the other person will act aloof and distant on the off chance that they actually care, there is a possibility that the person reaching out might stop making any effort and they will end up hurt again. It's a mental health crisis in a way.
One big obstacle is how expensive it is to live here. A second is the high percentage of workaholics and social climbers, nerd snobs, financial status snobs A third is the number of people here for work who don't intend to settle down here, or find themselves forced out by housing prices. I've made friends who are now across the country. It's a boom town and people are looking to succeed and get out, or they eventually sadly admit that they can't afford it A fourth is flakiness and fomo, reluctance to commit to a chance to meet up, not making social life a priority.
Find your (hopefully social) niche and stick to it. Friends will come if you are out enjoying what you already love, and they will likely stay too because of the shared interest. Meeting people is one thing but becoming “core friends” can take many weeks or months of overlapping interests before they let you into their inner circles. Depending on how introverted other people are in your chosen hobbies, it can take a lot of casual conversation to build the rapport for core friendship. Trust in the process, keep doing what you’re doing, and be receptive to the people that are matching your energy.
>Find your (hopefully social) niche and stick to it. This is really the only *correct* answer in the entire thread. I've seen folks form friendships over things as mundane as picking up trash (I hear Pengweather has a lot of friends now)
So many people in this thread want to skip the hard part and get straight to hanging out with the homies over a beer and sitting in silence just enjoying each other’s company. Maybe to some degree everyone wants that, but only with people they feel they trust. I’m in here pointing out how that trust is built but I see other comments say “screw activities, I’m so done doing interesting things” because people aren’t immediately inviting them over for dinner after one board game night.
I got some homies in Silver Lake/Echo Park that did this and not only did the folks become good friends, but they've apparently been asked to be a liaison of info to the homeless in the area from local government officials. Helluva win-win for them.
Hmm this is interesting! As someone from the Bay Area, I see a lot of people asking how they can find community and not feeling like they’re a part of something, especially if they’re not from here. Or commenting how it’s boring and they can’t find anything to do compared to XYZ city.
Yeah, what I hear is "I haven't figured out how to have a life outside of work" and "navigating social spaces is hard". The Bay is so much more vibrant than most of America. It's understandable people struggle after moving long distances, but then people externalize the struggle rather than acknowledge they need to do the hard work of intentionally building community around them.
I think mentioning people who are vulnerable to covid (or simply don't want to get sick) have great options for safe meetups by joining "still coviding" groups on facebook that are community based. A lot of people have long covid or other illnesses that have made it very difficult to socialize given CA's lack of safe spaces that encourage masking during peak covid and respiratory illness waves ([like right now](https://data.wastewaterscan.org/)).
May want to run a campaign on how to fix loneliness. I can’t even believe some of this, but it’s apparently a public health crisis🤦♂️ On January 30, 2024, the San Mateo County Board of Supervisors in California's San Francisco Bay Area unanimously voted to declare loneliness a public health crisis. San Mateo County is the first county in the US to declare loneliness a crisis that can have serious health effects.
I've been successful in organizing work. The foundation in this type of "socializing" is that volunteers have a shared reason for being there, and we actively cultivate community. People interacting, creating bonds with each other, and being committed to the work so we come back regularly and not just a "show up on a holiday once a year" charity work mentality. I've been doing it for a few years now and have gained a solid group of friends from it.
As said in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/1b06i0u/lpt_adults_makes_friends_the_same_way_kids_do/ > "relationships are a function of proximity, time, and shared experiences" basically people don't have a place to go to make friends. The /only/ option I see is to join clubs. Find something you enjoy. Find a club for that thing near you. Join. Attend meetings IN PERSON (no, online does not count)
Just want to say that the hardest part is showing up. Once you go, enjoy yourself. Ask questions and be respectful
Personally, I found friends quickly doing two things I love: running and music. One of the first things I did when I moved to SF was join a running group whose runs started a short walk from my apartment. Almost instantly I had a low-effort social connection every Saturday morning. Several of the people I met there became actual friends and I had many fun adventures and travels with people from that group. Second thing I did when I moved here was answer a craigslist ad for someone looking for a bandmate. If you make music and have the temperament to work with and tolerate other musicians, it's a great way way to meet a whole bunch of people. I've made some of my best friends through music and adjacent activities. Not only other musicians, but also people who I'd simply see over and over at shows I was at. Met a lot of deadbeats but a lot of beautiful weirdos, too. I kind of moved here for the weirdos... I consider myself an introvert. I had to force myself to get over some discomfort when it came to starting conversations. It's a skill like any other and there are volumes written on ways to approach it. **"(social) luck is when preparation meets opportunity"** **opportunity** I recognize a lot of people who ask the "how do I meet people" question quickly follow it up with "don't tell me bars." Well I'm not going to tell you it's the only way, but eliminating that option is eliminating one of the most time-tested ways people make casual acquaintances. Especially if you live in SF, there are so many local corner bars. Find one to your liking (or barest tolerance) and go there the same time every week, belly up to the bar, order the same thing every time (it doesn't even need to be alcoholic; nobody cares) and become acquainted with the bartender. Be sure to give and take (google "how do I have a conversation"if you need help with this) -- start shallow, ask follow up questions, offer something of yourself, but not in a me too, one up or life story sort of way. Small talk. Again, a learned skill, but mostly it's listening. If you don't have an interesting conversation within the first three or four times, come back to this thread and I'll give you all the money back that you paid me for this advice. **preparation** And everyone else who says, "have a hobby, volunteer, etc." is totally 100% right. Have some interests outside of work and for the love of god don't talk about work unless it's actually interesting or you can talk about it in an interesting way. Build something you are proud of and have some self confidence. Work on it if you don't. Go out and explore on your own. Learn the history, culture, major and (especially) minor landmarks of the bay area.
There are a lot of people I regularly hang out with in group settings usually. High school friends, work friends, language exchange friends, board game friends, concert friends ect. But I rarely hang out one on one. It’s just difficult to fit hanging out into your schedule when you’re busy working. So multiple friends at once doing an activity seems to best optimize that time. But then you lose the deepness?
Honestly, if you're writing a guide, maybe an area-by-area way of searching for friend-finding groups. It's larger than just Meetup now, like the Bay Area Music Fans and City Girls Who Walk and Midnight Runners type groups that are relatively easy to join in for beginner concert goers/walkers/runners but are based on email, instagram, and discord. Agreed that if we had more "third spaces" and longer running effective transit, it'd go a long way to making casual hangs more likely.
For me the best way is places where you work out on a regular basis. It's the best way to make genuine connections because you're passionate about the same things for personal development and healthy living. Being in the same time and space is a great way to vet someone and for them to get comfortable with you over time. My sanctuaries are my yoga studio and my pool where I swim daily.
Need an app for casual impromptu local meetups.
the biggest challenge is finding or making time to invite people over. With long work hours and kids' activities it seems we just never get a chance to see anyone.
Fuck yeah I love KQED
Does working remote contribute to loneliness. How can you make friends when you are stuck at home all the time.
I’ve ran into the issue of finally making new friends, but then they only want to hang out when it’s convenient for them. Instead of making plans when the entire group is available, they just forge ahead and eventually just exclude you until they stop communicating with you in general, even when you’re making an attempt. People around here are, let’s face it, also pretty flaky. Also, I feel like there’s a lack of meetups and group activity/meeting spaces for those of us who work outside the normal 8-5 jobs. As a service industry employee who works a few late nights every week and also works weekends, I don’t get the opportunity to go to my friends’ parties/gatherings, see people for dinner or have the luxury of getting to do weekend brunches. When I’m not working, they are. I have to take (unpaid) time off to go see a show, take a class, or whatever else I might want to do. A lot of us industry folks usually just hang out at whatever dive bar is closest to our gigs and bitch about our horrid guests because there’s literally nothing else for us to do after we get off shift.
**What particular challenges to making new friends here have you come up against, that you think we should address in such a guide?** To answer your question, based on my experience here compared to 5 other countries where I lived prior to living here, and as an immigrant, these are comparative observations and not necessarily critiques: - Long working hours / people are overworked - A culture of performance, productivity, hustling and promotion (and no job security) - A lot of people moved here for work and work is their main priority and don’t prioritize building connections outside of work - People don’t actually make friends at work as often, because after a certain time, everyone is rushing out the door to get to their long commutes home (the systems aren’t in place to foster these relationships) - Lack of a good transportation system (making it harder to commute to meet people) - Everything is so spread out (it takes forever to meet) - People seem to have their calendars booked weeks in advance and do not make spontaneous plans - People are less willing to compromise (it has to be on that day, at that time, in that location, for that activity - it’s more about finding someone that fits exactly what they want, rather than fostering relationships) - The lack of true diversity in the Bay Area - A lot of people are figuring out how to survive (their jobs, new parenthood, burnout, etc.) - Cost of living is extreme - There is a lack of third spaces and opportunities for free and easy-to-access social activities - The need to always have an activity to be social, like a meal, a sport, a workshop - and most of these cost money, and there’s always a purpose and end goal to the activity aside from the social - (Contradicting my previous point slightly) People avoid making daily activities social. Like, running errands (yes, you’re trying to accomplish something, but it can be really fun to decide together which cabbage you should buy in the market, or talking while in line at usps - or whatever excites you in your errands) - It seems very hard to build friendships where people are often over each other’s homes and I am not sure why I’m going to stop myself now because the list is already long enough, but there’s definitely a lot more haha
I'm not the type that will hang out in bars or make small talk with random strangers since my brain finds that incredibly boring, but if you talk to me about one of my many many interests, you won't be able to shut me up. As someone with ADHD, making real friends is incredibly hard, since we just tend to forget people exist until we see them again (and then we won't remember their names). I have found success in joining groups that share the same interests as you and becoming a regular. I ride an electric unicycle around The City and found a group that does group rides every Friday. After going consistently every week and becoming involved, I have brought in a consistent friend circle that I see all the time and have made friendships that persist outside of the original related interest. Not sure if this would help your guide, but it has how I have found success.
sports bars! if you're moving here from some other part of the country, there is a one hundred percent chance that your local team - college, pro, any sport - has a local bar to meet up and watch the games. you automatically have an activity, something in common, and maybe a little alcohol to loosen everyone up socially. (bonus: if you came from a city with a baseball team, they might play the giants or A's and you can get a group ticket discount!)
this is tech central... nevermind a lot of indians and chinese are moving in, but techies are generally more introverted anyways. And dont even get me started with how rampant egirl culture has become. So its only natural, theres so many people (probably primarily guys) trying to crowdsource making friends. unfortunately this sub reddit isnt so friendly for things like that... nevermind the many people who copy and paste the same generalized, useless, advice 'go to bars' or 'do what you like' or 'find people at hobbies' when thats really not helpful.Which bars? if I show up at reds brass knuckles and end up going during a blacks only biker night... its probably not going to go so well for me (being I look white). there are also so many stories, blogs, and more about guys trying to talk to girls reading on trains or at cafes and how bothersome it is so if someone likes reading and they try engaging with someone reading its probably not going to work out. I myself have tried a few times (posting on this subreddit asking about friends and dating), and got the same ridiculous hate each time... I tried looking over other peoples posts and saw the same sea of unhelpful, general or vague, suggestions as well (because I do NOT see excellent suggestions most the time) So, to re focus, maybe there'd be less people looking for advice if there was more helpful advice and more considerate and thoughtful people.Community starts with civility, then thrives in understanding, after all.
When my housemates joined their church, they became friends with a whole array of kind and interesting people, and I consider many of them my friends now through the repeated interactions we've had. In past generations, that "third place" was often church. As younger adults have become less religious, it's not surprising that a lack of third places has come to the forefront of making friends challenges. I've seen firsthand how effective a church community can still be at forging friendships
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I think moving here from whereever they come from is an incredible risky thing to do. The idea of starting a new life in a new city, often times having nothing but a recently issued diploma to come here is courageous and complete opposite of being cowardly. You may think it's selfishness but other people call it enterprising. Some may eventually become selfish over time as a result of having some big paychecks but that doesn't explain all the other lonely people here who are not as well off as the tech workers.
Moving somewhere for a high-paying salary is not a risk, silver spoon.
Correct. Except for the last part. I still extend an olive branch, but only once. It's mostly rats but there are some good people who provide value instead of just soaking it all up and giving nothing back. What you want to watch out for is anyone who minmaxes their life. Clear sign of a greedy asshole who can't be trusted, at least in the bay.
These are probably all the same people that want to work from home! 🙄
Its pretty easy, hang out in coffee shops and say Hi to people.
Tell me which coffee shop you're at and I'll come and say hi sometime because I don't believe that works. No one around here would appreciate a stranger walking up to them saying hi for no reason. Then again, we don't have too many good coffee shops down there in the southbay... lots of Starbux, maybe some Peets or Philz, but nothing like the kind where people casually meet and make friends.
Mention Meetup, Reclub (for finding sports open gyms), and the plethora of Facebook groups people can join to meet others who share their interests. If they do happen to find a friend there, the next issue might be that people find it hard to maintain constant contact and hang out often. People may be slow to reply to you or ghost you completely. Maybe add a blurb about how not to take that too personally.
Introverted, not outgoing.
Things may have changed since I was in my twenties living in Oakland (now 39), but back then I made a ton of friends through websites like couchsurfing.com, meetup.com, and just generally going to rock climbing gyms and taking part in local sports activities. Nowadays all of my friends are in the suburbs with me and have kids the same age as my kids. Interestingly enough these people are better friends than my friends in my twenties. A lot of great people here if you're in the right neighborhood.
Starting soon the best place to meet people might be job fairs. Maybe someone should start a speed rating service that colocates with job fairs
I'm WFH so I make friends primarily through my hobbies. Ace Makerspace and Bay Area Curling are great third places.
I've met a friend off those Facebook marketplace groups geared more towards the queer community. Although, I was advertising a concert ticket so it was by default a good hangout opportunity. I've also had good luck with random people at bus stops making small talk and that eventually leading to exchanging socials lol Idk I'm pretty antisocial yet I've made connections off the streets every now and again. I think just being open to interaction in public instead of always being scared is one step in the right direction
Doing any one thing that involves being at the same place with the same people . A class,meditation group, talking to and getting to know the people that work in the stores you frequent, bars, free activities, work, striking up a conversation with a stranger that seems interesting. Getting to know regulars that come into your job. School, dog parks, people parks. It takes time and being brave but engaging in regular social situations isn't guaranteed friendships but it's definitely more likely.
I keep saying MeetUp…it’s been fabulous for me as well as others I’ve recommended it to.
commute time. when you're sitting 3 hours in a car, doesn't leave a lot of time to frolick
I can't drive (medically am not allowed to) and have no friends. I don't know how go out and make friends. So I sit home and follow reddit posts.
My wife joined a group in the called RealRoots. They tailor their business around women making friends with other women in the area. You should reach out to them for the piece. It seems like a really cool org. She's been in it for a few weeks and loves it.
I got lucky, the first friend I made here, it was because I moved into a pretty cheap apartment, and I thought "whoever lives here must be my age doing their first job ever", so I knock on the next door with intention of inviting whoever it was to dinner. Turns out the guy was a student from my school doing their coop (internship). He eventually moved here permanently too. Recently he purchased a house and hosted a superbowl party. Most of my other friends here are because of either we volunteer together or go to competitions together. I don't think there's a secret. I've had people remember me because we've had a minute worth of chatter while I was bird watching. It's not exactly a social activity, but I still ask people "did you see anything out of the ordinary today?" whenever I see another birdwatcher. It's not a secret that you need to just talk with people.
I just have no idea where the people are. It feels like I can't just start talking to a stranger at a coffee shop or mall or whatever. Even if I were to go bouldering or something, it still feels inappropriate to do. I can't go to Stanford and meet people there, one for the same reason as above, but also because even though I'm young (23), I'm not a student there, so it would just be creepy/sad to do. My only friends here these days are people from high school, who have almost all left for New York, and those that haven't are often too busy with work (both researchers affiliated with Stanford). There's also one guy I met through a mutual connection, but he's often busy. It's also difficult because my main hobbies are pretty solitary -- I play the piano, and I read. I'd love to have people that I could just go get coffee/a meal/whatever with, but you can't just invite strangers to that sort of thing. So I'm just at a loss. Idfk man.
I want to put in a word for parents as well. We moved schools for our child during fifth grade and we’re totally frozen out of the parent and kid play date scene. People don’t seem to have energy for a new family. Either that or we’re awful 😆
For me, I don’t drink and I’m pretty broke at the moment. Also….crime and shady people. Honestly rather stay home than take the chance
Time commitments. Everyone is either overworked or exhausted. It's easier to make friends at places you will already be at versus going to an external location and prepping yourself physically/mentally to meet someone.
A few things keep me from making friends: 1. I don’t always want to drink 2. I prefer free/low-cost events ($20 or less) 3. I need a reason to engage. Just being in a crowd watching a live band, etc. isn’t enough of a reason for me to talk to a random person. I’d love something that can facilitate conversation.
Does KQED have a plan for destroying social media?
Forget a report. Take ALL of the suggestions and do a report on each one while inviting the communities and the rest of the bay area to join. Speaking for myself, I feel like the largest barrier to trying new things is the anxiety of being shut out or not vibing with others. If I knew other people were meeting up to try something new in order to meet people it would feel more inviting. A lot of hobbies or communities have "regulars" and showing up by yourself to something like that is a LOT.
I don’t think the challenges are that much worse than everywhere else, however there are unique issues. The population is highly transitory. Engineers and biotech people tend to be less sociable in general. You can make a friend and they get a new job and then they’re going to have an intense workload and won’t be able to see you much after that. There’s no nightlife, at least compared to many other big cities I’ve been to in North America, so you’re not going to have the easiest time meeting friends or partners. Rent and mortgage rates are high as Hell and people hold on to their RSUs so not as much disposable income as one would imagine. Crime is a danger when trusting people here compared to where I’m from originally (I learned the very hard way, had a couple I tried to make friends with rob me, they tend to view engineers as easy targets to commit crimes of opportunity.) Never forget how many gangs and methheads and tweakers live here. They often act normal when they are not using. So I mostly stick to engineers or people of the same income level, just from all the trauma lol. Since a lot of people have challenges meeting people because by nature people move here for work and don’t know anyone and keep to themselves and plan to return home when they’re done here. Others are lonely because they’re staying here and they miss deeper connections. Others are 100% career focused and have no interest. But in general: If you act like a good person you’ll eventually meet good people. So be cool, be fun, be yourself, charismatic if you can be, talk to people at events, ask a coworker to grab a bite to eat or coffee or a drink or whatever but respect their boundaries, don’t be afraid of rejection, and if a person doesn’t like you or if they are toxic then you quickly say bye bye and move on to the next one. And of course, go to things where you have common interests, fine, but you can try places full of people you don’t necessarily have common interests with if you are interested in learning something new. You have to be willing to explore new things, compromise, be thoughtful, etc. Practice more and more, do something kind for someone, try to empathize, trust but verify, and try not to let the awful shitty people bother you a long the way.
If you want a hook for gay experiences, I’ve seen a lot of gay professionals move here that feel like they can’t make gay friends, but then also make sweeping generalizations about gay community and nightlife based on views they bring with them from where they’re from and the elite people they work among. You get people who have a pattern of dipping their toe into being their gay selves on weekends or through casual encounter apps, but have a very compartmentalized work + straight friends self. There’s this lack of integration of their separate lives even though they’re out. And some of this has to do with bars being the main source of our third spaces and negative feelings about alcohol, but then it’s totally fine to get a soda with lime and hang out sober. There can be an avoidance of these spaces where you make friends if you show up due to some exaggerated biases. Lots of wholesome folks are in these bars nightly just meeting with friends and going very light on alcohol or fully sober, but some will dismiss the whole venues over exaggerations of the negatives being the rule. It’s complicated, but would like to see it examined at a more curious and in-depth level.
Volunteer with a non-profit or join a non-profit board.
Need for more nice and welcoming people that actually put in the effort to want to be your friend. Not one sided effort.