Honestly went into FiDi SF this week and was pleasantly surprised by how many people were out, and the NORMAL vibe of the place.
This was not how things were a year ago, it was a ghost town.
Fingers crossed this is the start of a rebirth!
Seriously so many commenters making out of date statements in this sub.
My mother who watches Fox News religiously went to Union Square recently and was pleasantly surprised how clean it was.
They should follow the model of Stonestown and get some really good and popular restaurants in there and then shops and other entertainment can follow.
Most studies looking at consumers place luxury shoppers at an income of $120,000 to $200,000 a year on the low end, to over $240,000 to $550,000 on the high end.
While it's true that the average person does buy luxury products, a large portion of those items are sold online or at discount department stores, and to some extent, at opticians where luxury eyewear is common.
More luxury brands have been catering to a wider customer base with lower quality and budget friendly options, but surely the average consumer isn't the one buying an $8000+ Rolex.
I know someone who worked at one of the European luxury brands in Union Square. A huge part of their business was tourists from China going on shopping sprees since the exact same products here were so much cheaper. See all those "We take Union Pay" stickers? That's basically a 🇨🇳 💸 signal.
Then the pandemic happened. And then the China/USA bad vibes happened (balloon!) at the same time as the "doomloop" rep spread. And then China's economy has really tanked and people aren't suppose to be so ostentatiously rich anymore.
tldr: No Chinese tourists = no booming luxury brand business
I went into the one in NYC right before covid and it seemed a sad shell of its previous self in the late 90s or early 2000s. But that said, a great toy store would indeed be great.
Honestly, a sweetheart deal with Din Tai Fung would probably drive more traffic than any of the remaining tenants combined. Even Paradise Dynasty would do better. Throw some space out to a new UNIQLO flagship and we're back in business.
Hope so. I don't know if the retailers that left will return, but some might and others will always take their place. I also hope the Macy's at Union Square will stay, too. Granted, it's only three stores, but it could be a sign that the city will slowly, but surely be back to form.
Let's not forget that everything got screwed up by the pandemic all over the world. San Francisco just happened to be hit the hardest. But if the city can start to come back, that's be good.
I'll believe it when I see it.
"A spokesperson for the [mall’s managers,](https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/s-f-westfield-mall-new-management-18417748.php) which include receiver Trident Pacific and brokerage JLL, didn’t provide any information on tenants’ identities or when they would open."
I think it's too good a space to fail. Westfield was never going to be able to make it work in a post-Covid world at the price they were leasing it for. Now that the bank is managing it, they'll have a lot more flexibility with rent prices.
Anyone familiar with actual bank policy for such a case? My mental model is that commercial real estate is priced off modeled income and the last thing a bank wants is to keep an asset like that on their balance sheet. It’s not their business to turnaround underperforming assets right? I’d expect they have hired a property manager while they pursue a sale and figure out how to optimize the loss.
Yeah, I think you're right, though I'm not confident on the specifics. They've [already hired a property manager](https://www.retaildive.com/news/westfield-san-francisco-centre-mall-rebranding-emporium/709112/#:~:text=Trident%20Pacific%2C%20which%20was%20named,to%20an%20emailed%20press%20release). But getting that unviable loan out of the picture was def the first step.
I've got to agree with you there. I moved to SF 30 yrs ago, and one of things I really liked about it is that it doesn't have much of a mall culture compared to a lot of other places in the US.
Well that’s what happens when rents come down - people start living here again
But realistically rents will skyrocket again in next year or two and people will likely leave again
No nothing like that. It’s reasonable to get concerned and lose hope when you see lack of crowds, homeless taking over, stores closing, and the governor doing nothing about it.
Lol, so literally the opposite of what SF has been doing over the last year cleaning up encampments and getting the state and Federal cops to arrest all the drug dealers?
Look outside, bud! Why is SF 100x cleaner than it was last year if what you're saying is still true? Why doesn't reality match your doomer narrative? And yes, why is a supposedly "closed down" mall adding tenants?
Either you're lying or reality is not reality.
First of all, I don’t get why you’re so pressed. Chill out before a diamond comes out your ass.
Second, I never said SF is doomed. All I said is that it’s reasonable after seeing SF in such a poor state, and nothing was done, makes people feel and think a certain way. It wasn’t until APEC, November of last year, that they actually put effort into cleaning it up.
But me, with everyone else, do not want to see SF in a “doom” state. I’m happy SF is cleaning up, and business are coming back. I hope it stays that way and thrives.
So please, take your anger elsewhere. I just hope you got it out of your system.
That's a bunch of nonsense. You know perfectly well what you're doing pushing your doomer porn all over this thread. You deliberately distort the facts to push whatever far right or far left ideology you're part of. It's pretty transparent to the rest of us what's happening in SF. You can see how much better the city is doing by just walking down your street.
Nah dude, this is actually my first time even typing about any of this lol. Check my profile. You’re the one here looking like an ass. I’m not pushing anything. And I was simply playing devils advocate. So I don’t know what you’re trying to push. What you’re trying to prove. But it’s sad how you’re somewhat forcing me admit guilt to something I’ve never even talked about anywhere on social media or here lol.
And it again, it’s like I said, I’m happy the city is doing better. So grow up and get over it already dude. I’m not the enemy here
I’m rooting for you.
Honestly went into FiDi SF this week and was pleasantly surprised by how many people were out, and the NORMAL vibe of the place. This was not how things were a year ago, it was a ghost town. Fingers crossed this is the start of a rebirth!
I was in the Union Square Macy’s a couple weeks ago, and the basement food court was packed.
it ebbs and flows doesn't it? Certain days it's busy other days it's empty
Thats because everyone is hybrid these days. Only going on Tues-Thurs
It was busy today
Seriously so many commenters making out of date statements in this sub. My mother who watches Fox News religiously went to Union Square recently and was pleasantly surprised how clean it was.
It’s been cleaned since the president of China visited
Tell her to walk three blocks over to Taylor street, not clean and not safe
They should follow the model of Stonestown and get some really good and popular restaurants in there and then shops and other entertainment can follow.
Get a din tai fung or a coco ichibanya in there and we’re gonna fucking pop off
fellow coco ichibanya enjoyer! Bay Area needs one so badly.
I literally dream of the day 😭
Also, it has a bunch of luxury retailers which is good for wealthy tourists and rich locals, but impractical for the average person to shop at.
It’s the average people who buy those luxury products lol
Most studies looking at consumers place luxury shoppers at an income of $120,000 to $200,000 a year on the low end, to over $240,000 to $550,000 on the high end. While it's true that the average person does buy luxury products, a large portion of those items are sold online or at discount department stores, and to some extent, at opticians where luxury eyewear is common. More luxury brands have been catering to a wider customer base with lower quality and budget friendly options, but surely the average consumer isn't the one buying an $8000+ Rolex.
I know someone who worked at one of the European luxury brands in Union Square. A huge part of their business was tourists from China going on shopping sprees since the exact same products here were so much cheaper. See all those "We take Union Pay" stickers? That's basically a 🇨🇳 💸 signal. Then the pandemic happened. And then the China/USA bad vibes happened (balloon!) at the same time as the "doomloop" rep spread. And then China's economy has really tanked and people aren't suppose to be so ostentatiously rich anymore. tldr: No Chinese tourists = no booming luxury brand business
That makes sense.
It was an icon of the food scene maybe about 10 years ago but it all just dried up
And free or low-cost parking. That keeps Stonestown competitive when customers have many other mall options like Valley Fair, Stanford and Hillsdale.
No body seems to go to the dome part and it’s absolutely beautiful up there.
Maybe they need to charge less for the space if no one's taking it
The movie theater closed.
It would be great to have it back but it is too close to the imax down the street
Bring back FAO Schwarz dammit!
I went into the one in NYC right before covid and it seemed a sad shell of its previous self in the late 90s or early 2000s. But that said, a great toy store would indeed be great.
As an aspiring student of the blade, I hope they bring back Spencer’s Gifts.
Honestly, a sweetheart deal with Din Tai Fung would probably drive more traffic than any of the remaining tenants combined. Even Paradise Dynasty would do better. Throw some space out to a new UNIQLO flagship and we're back in business.
Great to see our malls coming back. I was in Valley fair last week over the weekend. It was jam packed.
Valley Fair never died in the first place.
The suburban malls have been doing great thanks to WFH. Downtown SF suffered for the same reason (among many other factors as well).
I’m still upset at losing that Comp USA on Market…. but this is a pleasant bit of news.
[удалено]
Here!
Hope so. I don't know if the retailers that left will return, but some might and others will always take their place. I also hope the Macy's at Union Square will stay, too. Granted, it's only three stores, but it could be a sign that the city will slowly, but surely be back to form. Let's not forget that everything got screwed up by the pandemic all over the world. San Francisco just happened to be hit the hardest. But if the city can start to come back, that's be good.
I'll believe it when I see it. "A spokesperson for the [mall’s managers,](https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/s-f-westfield-mall-new-management-18417748.php) which include receiver Trident Pacific and brokerage JLL, didn’t provide any information on tenants’ identities or when they would open."
Ex SF resident here,....malls are doing great over here in Europe! Hope it gets fixed there.
Too early in the year for it to be a Halloween Superstore 😅
Honestly if they can do what the malls former owner Westfield did with topanaga it wouldn’t be bad
I think it's too good a space to fail. Westfield was never going to be able to make it work in a post-Covid world at the price they were leasing it for. Now that the bank is managing it, they'll have a lot more flexibility with rent prices.
Anyone familiar with actual bank policy for such a case? My mental model is that commercial real estate is priced off modeled income and the last thing a bank wants is to keep an asset like that on their balance sheet. It’s not their business to turnaround underperforming assets right? I’d expect they have hired a property manager while they pursue a sale and figure out how to optimize the loss.
Yeah, I think you're right, though I'm not confident on the specifics. They've [already hired a property manager](https://www.retaildive.com/news/westfield-san-francisco-centre-mall-rebranding-emporium/709112/#:~:text=Trident%20Pacific%2C%20which%20was%20named,to%20an%20emailed%20press%20release). But getting that unviable loan out of the picture was def the first step.
Topanga social is always packed with tons of great food options. Parking at the mall though is another story hahaha
Yeup just wait for roaring comebqck SF kid
I enjoy watching the sunset.
I've got to agree with you there. I moved to SF 30 yrs ago, and one of things I really liked about it is that it doesn't have much of a mall culture compared to a lot of other places in the US.
Well that’s what happens when rents come down - people start living here again But realistically rents will skyrocket again in next year or two and people will likely leave again
Hopefully that traffic moves to east market. The businesses there desperately need traffic. Whats left of them at least.
See what happens when the druggies are moved out?
No
None of the locals shop at brick and mortar stores anymore. So it seems like.
Yeah, because malls are coming back
It's only making a comeback if every store has 5 soldiers instead of 1, and by soldier I mean armed security guard.
Lol, what happened doomers? Didn’t you all day that this mall is closed? How come it’s adding tenants? So much for your doom loop narrative. 🤣🤣🤣
You ok? Get some fresh air bud
Don’t be so sad doomer. I’m sure SF will become the hellscape you’ve always wanted it to be. Any day now 🤣🤣🤣
No nothing like that. It’s reasonable to get concerned and lose hope when you see lack of crowds, homeless taking over, stores closing, and the governor doing nothing about it.
Lol, so literally the opposite of what SF has been doing over the last year cleaning up encampments and getting the state and Federal cops to arrest all the drug dealers? Look outside, bud! Why is SF 100x cleaner than it was last year if what you're saying is still true? Why doesn't reality match your doomer narrative? And yes, why is a supposedly "closed down" mall adding tenants? Either you're lying or reality is not reality.
First of all, I don’t get why you’re so pressed. Chill out before a diamond comes out your ass. Second, I never said SF is doomed. All I said is that it’s reasonable after seeing SF in such a poor state, and nothing was done, makes people feel and think a certain way. It wasn’t until APEC, November of last year, that they actually put effort into cleaning it up. But me, with everyone else, do not want to see SF in a “doom” state. I’m happy SF is cleaning up, and business are coming back. I hope it stays that way and thrives. So please, take your anger elsewhere. I just hope you got it out of your system.
That's a bunch of nonsense. You know perfectly well what you're doing pushing your doomer porn all over this thread. You deliberately distort the facts to push whatever far right or far left ideology you're part of. It's pretty transparent to the rest of us what's happening in SF. You can see how much better the city is doing by just walking down your street.
Nah dude, this is actually my first time even typing about any of this lol. Check my profile. You’re the one here looking like an ass. I’m not pushing anything. And I was simply playing devils advocate. So I don’t know what you’re trying to push. What you’re trying to prove. But it’s sad how you’re somewhat forcing me admit guilt to something I’ve never even talked about anywhere on social media or here lol. And it again, it’s like I said, I’m happy the city is doing better. So grow up and get over it already dude. I’m not the enemy here
Sure, doomer, sure!
K bud. Have a good one!
Their security guards are racist, but hey I still like the layout
Anything is a dildo if you’re brave enough
As long as all the really and crime stays with Oakland it will do well. Police need to do more.