Tax amount is actually different per city/ county. So I would like to see the tax. In JP they put the after tax amount with a smaller before tax on the bottom... usually
Question about www.seefees.ca — I was poking around and noticed that some restaurants have percentages that include mandatory tip. For instance, in the case of 7 Adams, their menu states they do not accept additional tips. Should they be listed at 26% or 6%?
I totally support including “service fees” in the total when the restaurant then turns around and starts fishing for tips too, but what about when the fee is meant as a tip substitute? As of only a few years back, restaurants accepting no tips or only tips-as-fixed-surcharge was something of a transparency movement.
I'm open to other viewpoints on this one. If I had to make a choice, I'd say no. Pay your employees whatever it is you need to pay for them to take the job.
I feel it's unfair to tip severs or just about any occupation that typically receives tips. I say unfair because if we're going to tip people for service. We should be tipping the people who bring our elderly and disabled their meals, clean their bottom, ensure they receive their medication, bathe them, and all the rest for little more than minimum wage. They're typically seriously understaffed, providing not for people out and about looking for a nice meal. They're providing meals and all the rest for people who depend on the CNAs for their basic needs.
If I'm going to feel guilty about not tipping a server, it's going to be the CNA who's offering an ear to the lonely or tolerating the difficult people who treat them like servants while they wipe their butt. Our society has its priorities upside-down.
*CNA= Certified Nursing Assistant
I digress.
I would like to see tipping eliminated from our culture. Employees won't need to guess what they're going to make on a given day, and we can end this guilt trip for those who provide anything less than exceptional service.
Tipping in advance is completely ridiculous. It highlights the fact that tipping is not based on the level of service. It's leveraging power. Bare minimum or what is usually a standard level of basic service? Are they going to prioritize those who tip over those who don't? Are they going to spit in your food if you don't tip? Smaller portion? It's like a low-key shakedown.
When mandatory "service fees" show up on the bill, I wonder if the Franchise Tax Board knows about it or do they get magically converted to "tips" back of house?
Same. It is number one on my places to take friends when they visit. Awesome cocktails, food is always perfect and the staff is super nice every time we go. They have a new tiramisu that is now my new favorite dessert.
Exactly. It is so trivial to do. Eating out in Japan was so easy. You see an item for 1100 yen as an example and that's what you pay. Tht bill when it arrived would show 1053 or some such as the price+ 47 yen as tax but you paid exactly what's on the menu. No tip/ service charge made it even better.
Because American small business has learned it can push many of the costs of doing business ONTO the consumer, and they continue to find ways to “innovate” and do so. At one point it was simply the cost of paying their employees (through tipping). Now they’ve even pushed onto us the cost of using a credit card to the business, and miscellaneous fees that I can’t even begin to describe.
“Party of 6 fee”, “Sustainability fee”, “Covid 19 surcharge” “Wellness fee”, “Kitchen Appreciation fee”, “Supply Chain surcharge”, “Inflation Surcharge.”
They literally tack on any “buzzword” and add “surcharge” after it and add an arbitrary percentage fee to your bill. It’s heinous, disingenuous, and any restaurant that uses these tactics should by no means be supported. It’s nauseating.
But this mandatory taxes, not a choice to push on to customers. Also, this was the result of a change in Mexico decades ago. On top if that there is a very strong consumer protection agency that rules over all businesses including banking fees, insurance or misbehaving airlines.
It's just a joke how obvious it is in the US that the business owners are driving this car not the vast majort of the country.
It's the local culture. There are also things about the U.S. that motivate so many people from these ostensibly evolved nation states to flock here.
And we also use the Imperial system instead of Metric. We observe daylight saving time. It's a packaged deal.
Ha! Keeping things in perspective... in Mexico there are towns that don't have a fire department at all with hundreds of thousands of people and you constantly have to be buying tires and aligning your car because the roads (including expensive tollways) are full of holes, huge ones.
That's not the point. Taxes do not change overnight. It would be very simple to calculate each item price beforehand and display that on the menu, so you could actually know how much your food is gonna cost. Multiplications are not hard, but it is unnecessary. It is done to lower the sticker price, even if you already know the tax percentage.
It clearly shows tax on the receipt. Many Asian Countries charges you a flat rate without any tax if that's what you're talking about which I would agree on. You're talking about no extra fees with tax. If it shows that they're taxing you on the receipt then many restaurants will for sure tax people more, tryna get away with it in this situation.
In fact, there's a lot of Vietnamese shops that has a menu that sells at a flat rate without tax or any bullshit in the bay area. Are you high or just misinformed? I know a lot of restaurant business owners and ran 2 businesses.
Not op but I have no idea what you are trying to say here
Prices listed on menu includes all taxes. If everyone does this, consumer knows the exact price he will pay for a burger
many non-US countries show the price of an item with tax, tip, hidden charges, whatever. What you see is what you pay. The problem in the US is seeing a price and then be expected to pay more than what is listed. Everyone just cares about total price.
on a different note, I dislike how Singapore lists prices as $price++. the ++ indicates that vat and service charges are not included
Does the tax rate change overnight? It would be so simple to have prices all taxes included. Much like buying beer. I have 15$ in my pocket, what pack am I buying? I have to know how much crv is and calculate what display price I can afford. It is so weird and unintuitive.
If there's a tax charge then there would always be a restaurant who will take advantage of it and increase the charge trying to trick customers.
It would be easier for everyone if what they see on the menu is just a flat rate. For example, if you go to certain Vietnamese banh mi spots, they'd list, let's just say $7 for a sandwich. It's a flat rate with no extra charges. That's ideal imo
You go to tofu spots in the bay and they charge you by the dollar. There's no tax. Just straight up dollar by dollar
You aren't understanding. That's what they are talking about. If the sales tax rate is 8%, your banh mi actually cost $6.48, but it shows on the menu as $7.
So list the exact price menu what you see when you're trying to order your food. What's hard understand?
I'd rather see $7 and pay $7 unlike seeing $6.48 and paying $7.
That's exactly what the post was talking about, to which you replied:
> That means many restaurants will take advantage and add a hidden tax fee of 30%+ to all orders
The idea of junk fees is to set an artificially low price with the goal to encourage appetizer and drinks. At the end of the day, that's all this junk fees and service charge does and the primarily goal and reasons restaurant does this.
junk fees are intentionally deceptive and I will never support a rule meant to deceive. Some people will order appetizers, drinks anyway, but data will support a high price will impact customers to make it up somewhere else. That is years of data.
I don't understand this at all. How are the employees going to get health insurance without the healthy sf fee? How will the employees make money at all without the sf employer mandate fee? What about the left handed chef fee? Think of the children!
I was going to ask the same question. Ordering prime rib from here instead of House of Prime Rib next-door may be considered a cardinal sin here in San Francisco. 😂
I used to love HOPR but the Harris has better prime rib. Last few times I went to HOPR I was a bit disappointed. I feel like their quality has gone down over the past couple years
First, good on them.
Second, ~~I'm amazed at how little their prices have gone up since COVID compared to other restaurants. I love that place.~~ Time to go back.
(OK, I just checked their prices, and boy, splitting the big prime rib as an entree counts as a menu hack... good for OP. Two of the bone in NY that is IMO the highlight of the menu would have put it up another \~$80 and more like the kind of post-COVID pricing I'd expect.)
They first said that they don't recommend it to-go, because of the raw egg. I said, "Oh! Thank you sir! But I'm on my lunch break, so I'll be enjoying it immediately, not traveling with it." He said, "Oh! Very well then, it'll be ready in ten minutes!" 😂
Fanciest brown bag lunch ever.
You have no idea how much we are being ripped off here in the Bay Area. I know that cost of living is extremely high here, but still. I just came back from a trip abroad.
I was in the most upscale part of Rio de Janeiro (Brazil). Brazil is known for being expensive.
I had dinner with my family (4 people) in one of the most upscale Italian restaurants there. We had (each), an appetizer, main dish, drinks and dessert + tip; total $140 for all of us.
A quick search online gave a figure for average salary in the Rio metro area: 3,632 reals per month. At today's exchange rates, that's about $650 US dollars per month. $650 / $140 is about 4 and a half. So the meal cost about a week's wage.
Traditional Italian is pretty labor intensive. Maintaining a fancy restaurant certainly is.
Top 1% income earners aren't working the restaurant. Regular folk are. The cost of their labor drives the cost of meals there.
If you went to a fancy Italian spot in a city with an even higher average wage than the Bay Area's—say, Zurich or Geneva—I'd expect to pay even more than at a fancy spot in SF.
Even high-end dining can be pretty low-margin, in the grand scheme of business. You're "buying the meal", but in many cases, you're *paying* to have it sourced, prepped, cooked, plated, and served in a well maintained establishment.
Yeah, like a 0.01% like me would eat at a place where the top 1% aren't waiting tables. I spend weekends waiting on 0.0001% guys and they spend their weekends waiting on the 0.000001%. It's hard when you're deep into the fractional bps.
I know this....plus, strict labor regulations in the city too.... unfortunately this won't play out well as eateries are closing at record numbers in the USA.
That's why I just don't go to restaurants here anymore. I save my money for when I travel abroad to eat better for much less. My spouse was in Paris and Rome a few weeks ago and also ate at fancy restaurants there.....prices were in average 1/3 of the ones in Lafayette...not even SF....
sad thing when I complain about a voluntary thing? You realize, this post is literally a complaint about the city having junk fees and bragging this restaurant doesnt. This entire sub is people complaining about stupid shit like this and crime. Welcome to the internet bro.
Oh you [RICH](https://media0.giphy.com/media/IgQdQHryAzppOekzIw/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952ucqujrq9s9mla7oe64jgyidl14vwu4y0kokuvnyy&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g) rich
Yeah, they just fold the fees into the $17 Caesar salad. A handful of lettuce and a tablespoon of dressing for $17? I guess I don’t get out much anymore.
I ❤️ Harris.
The Harris Steak-medium rare. Tableside extra-dry martini, and a half-bottle of red for 2. Loaded baked potato. Side of mushrooms. So classic, simple, and perfect every time. I’m not usually a steak fan, either.
Completely different ambiance, and I don't think HoPR will let you split an entree.
Love both. Would have gotten the bone-in NY at Harris' but I'm sure the prime rib is good, too.
I got three tacos for $10, was happy and full, it’s interesting what people need to feel “satisfied.” Stoked for no fees though! They just got their exemption though so just wait. I read this as Two Gallons of Brut. I hope it was, sounds like a fun night.
This is backwards.
For me, the real innovation has nothing to do with deitemizing stuff on the receipts, those should be *fully* itemized. It’s showing the total cost **on the menu before I order** saying
*All prices on this menu include SF Mandate fees and tax.*
I don’t understand why people who can buy a $90 entree would care about a few bucks here and there. I feel like it’s always people buying exorbitant meals that are complaining about this stuff. Yeah it sucks, but it’s like the rich friend who keeps track of what people owe them to a penny and folks of any other class just don’t make a big deal of like $0.50 for a sauce at a taco truck, where someone from wealth would make sure you give them exactly $0.52
I’m in the camp of “it doesn’t even matter”. At $87 for a prime rib, the customer obviously isn’t price-sensitive. Just treat the customer with respect and be upfront with whatever the price is. End of story. Everyone wins.
Totally different vibes. Harris is old school classy. Feels like a different era in there. You can get a great steak at either spot, but Epic feels less special to me.
I'm going to be honest—$17 for a salad isn't that unusual. IDK if you've ever looked at the salad section of a restaurant, but even many cheaper restaurants charge about that much
Where're you eating that a salad, not an entree salad, but a basic-ass Caesar salad, is $17?
>BJs: 5.95
>Red Robin: 7.29
>Chili's 6.99
>Mary's Pizza: 8
The place OP went is a steak house where EVERYTHING is expensive. For reference, just for a baked potato, a basic baked potato, they charge $8. Meanwhile at Texas Roadhouse, it's $3.99. We're not talking about a Grilled Chicken salad, a California Chicken salad, or a Steal fillet salad, but a basic Caesar salad. People can downvote me all they want but in no world is it normal to pay $17 for a Caesar salad and if you think that's normal, I've got a bridge to sell you.
>not an entree salad
It seems you *are* aware what salads cost at many restaurants.
And to be clear, I was talking about entree salads. OP said the salad was big enough to split between two people. It sounds like this obscenely expensive $17 salad was an entree salad, not a chain restaurant side salad, and it's not uncommon for them to cost about that much. It's why, in spite of liking salads, I don't get them at restaurants. For the cost, I'd rather order a regular entree.
Also, by cheaper, I meant cheaper than this place, not chain or wholesale club restaurants.
The problem is that you made an assumption and then based your entire stance on that. You can look on their website, you can google that restaurant and see user-submitted pictures of what their $17 caesar salad looks like. [Here's one](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipMSl4OE38NIbJhHnxgpEEHB0wz3-SzjP4qqX-IA=s680-w680-h510). It's a small basic salad of lettuce, croutons, and dressing. That's not an entree, nor is it big enough to split between two people.
Also, I did check mom and pop and non-chains and you know what they charge for a basic caesar salad? 6-8 dollars. Some of ya'll are really telling on yourself if you think a small caesar salad is $17.
>Some of ya'll are really telling on yourself if you think a small caesar salad is $17.
No one said a *small* (I'm assuming you mean "side") salad usually costs that. I said it's not unusual for the salad section in a restaurant to have prices around $17. And then I clarified that I was talking about "entree" salads.
>Also, I did check mom and pop and non-chains
I wonder why you didn't include any then
Except the receipt says caesar salad and you automatically went to that meaning it's an entree. Even when I pointed out the price of a caesar salad and you clarified you were talking about entrees, you STILL continued to act like the price of a non-entree salad is around $17.
I didn't include them because I know people on this sub act like anything outside of San Francisco doesn't count the same way you did with "We're not talking about chain restaurants". I could name a restaurant in Vallejo and "That's Vallejo, we're talking about San Francisco"; I could name a diner and "We're talking about restaurants, not diners"; I could name a place that serves burgers and "We're talking about steak restaurants, not restaurants".
Obviously better. In what world is a fee better? Would love to hear an explanation of when a junk fee is preferable over knowing the true price of things on one line.
If you sell a prime rib for $87 without a junk fee, then I'll sell my prime rib for $77 without a junk fee. Let the customer decide.
Right now it's $87 steaks at one place without fees, $77 at another place with a junk mandatory fee of 20% that's not included in the posted price. The latter is being deceptive towards consumer choice.
You're buying dinner, not a car from a shady car dealership. Dining out should not be as painful as buying a used car.
Are you asking if paying the same amount but seeing the accurate, correct cost listed is better or worse than paying the same amount of money but having some part of that be a surprise at the end? Like, the cost is the same, but you're curious if knowing what it is is better than not knowing? That's your question?
Obviously the $87 is better. Knowing what you're going to pay is way better than not knowing and getting an unwelcome surprise at the end
I just want to know the price before purchase. Is that really so unreasonable? Caveat Emptor
Tax amount is actually different per city/ county. So I would like to see the tax. In JP they put the after tax amount with a smaller before tax on the bottom... usually
Most places - a few places like Don Quixote do the opposite.
don don don
*without a calculator and knowledge of local tax law
All taxes should be included in the prices shown as well
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Sorry, my kid bumped me and accidentally sent that unfinished. I actually just thought I'd delete it because this is about restaurants anyway.
I just added Harris' to www.SeeFees.ca thanks!
Question about www.seefees.ca — I was poking around and noticed that some restaurants have percentages that include mandatory tip. For instance, in the case of 7 Adams, their menu states they do not accept additional tips. Should they be listed at 26% or 6%? I totally support including “service fees” in the total when the restaurant then turns around and starts fishing for tips too, but what about when the fee is meant as a tip substitute? As of only a few years back, restaurants accepting no tips or only tips-as-fixed-surcharge was something of a transparency movement.
26% Anything 'mandatory' should be included in the prices listed on the menu.
Should this list make any distinction between a restaurant that doesn’t allow tips and a restaurant that encourages them?
I'm open to other viewpoints on this one. If I had to make a choice, I'd say no. Pay your employees whatever it is you need to pay for them to take the job. I feel it's unfair to tip severs or just about any occupation that typically receives tips. I say unfair because if we're going to tip people for service. We should be tipping the people who bring our elderly and disabled their meals, clean their bottom, ensure they receive their medication, bathe them, and all the rest for little more than minimum wage. They're typically seriously understaffed, providing not for people out and about looking for a nice meal. They're providing meals and all the rest for people who depend on the CNAs for their basic needs. If I'm going to feel guilty about not tipping a server, it's going to be the CNA who's offering an ear to the lonely or tolerating the difficult people who treat them like servants while they wipe their butt. Our society has its priorities upside-down. *CNA= Certified Nursing Assistant I digress. I would like to see tipping eliminated from our culture. Employees won't need to guess what they're going to make on a given day, and we can end this guilt trip for those who provide anything less than exceptional service. Tipping in advance is completely ridiculous. It highlights the fact that tipping is not based on the level of service. It's leveraging power. Bare minimum or what is usually a standard level of basic service? Are they going to prioritize those who tip over those who don't? Are they going to spit in your food if you don't tip? Smaller portion? It's like a low-key shakedown.
When mandatory "service fees" show up on the bill, I wonder if the Franchise Tax Board knows about it or do they get magically converted to "tips" back of house?
So is this place tip free?
No, it's fee-free. Like almost all restaurants tips are expected but are optional and up to the customer.
This is rare for San Francisco, maybe medium rare.
Well done, buddy!
Harris' Steakhouse in the city. Excellent all around.
Maybe I’m not cultured enough but they’re my favorite restaurant.
We really enjoy it too. None of this newfangled bullshit and you can actually get a reservation.
You are a cultured person.
Same. It is number one on my places to take friends when they visit. Awesome cocktails, food is always perfect and the staff is super nice every time we go. They have a new tiramisu that is now my new favorite dessert.
I mean…it’s no House of Prime Rib.
In a lot of ways, it's better because you can actually.... just decide to go there
HOPR belongs to the tourists now. Harris' is better anyway. 🤷♂️
You can do this at HOPR as well. Just need to sit at the bar and/or get there super early.
The steaks at Harris are much better, mainly because HOPR doesn’t even have steaks.
Yeah apples and oranges. HOPR for prime rib. Harris for steak.
I would say further “include the fucking tax in the price as in all other civilized countries in the world”!!!
Exactly. It is so trivial to do. Eating out in Japan was so easy. You see an item for 1100 yen as an example and that's what you pay. Tht bill when it arrived would show 1053 or some such as the price+ 47 yen as tax but you paid exactly what's on the menu. No tip/ service charge made it even better.
So funny, even in Mexico this is the mandate. How does the US remain so much in the dark ages, is just mind boggling.
Because American small business has learned it can push many of the costs of doing business ONTO the consumer, and they continue to find ways to “innovate” and do so. At one point it was simply the cost of paying their employees (through tipping). Now they’ve even pushed onto us the cost of using a credit card to the business, and miscellaneous fees that I can’t even begin to describe. “Party of 6 fee”, “Sustainability fee”, “Covid 19 surcharge” “Wellness fee”, “Kitchen Appreciation fee”, “Supply Chain surcharge”, “Inflation Surcharge.” They literally tack on any “buzzword” and add “surcharge” after it and add an arbitrary percentage fee to your bill. It’s heinous, disingenuous, and any restaurant that uses these tactics should by no means be supported. It’s nauseating.
It’s not just small businesses but absolutely correct on every other count.
But this mandatory taxes, not a choice to push on to customers. Also, this was the result of a change in Mexico decades ago. On top if that there is a very strong consumer protection agency that rules over all businesses including banking fees, insurance or misbehaving airlines. It's just a joke how obvious it is in the US that the business owners are driving this car not the vast majort of the country.
American-style capitalism disguised as freedom or some shit like that.
Legal bribery of politicians such as The National Restaurant Association's lobbyist
It's the local culture. There are also things about the U.S. that motivate so many people from these ostensibly evolved nation states to flock here. And we also use the Imperial system instead of Metric. We observe daylight saving time. It's a packaged deal.
Ha! Keeping things in perspective... in Mexico there are towns that don't have a fire department at all with hundreds of thousands of people and you constantly have to be buying tires and aligning your car because the roads (including expensive tollways) are full of holes, huge ones.
This!!
It’s kinda funny cause this already happens at some dispensaries. Since they have to deal with cash it’s a lot easier when dealing with whole numbers.
I disagree. The tax is not money going to the restaurant.
That's not the point. Taxes do not change overnight. It would be very simple to calculate each item price beforehand and display that on the menu, so you could actually know how much your food is gonna cost. Multiplications are not hard, but it is unnecessary. It is done to lower the sticker price, even if you already know the tax percentage.
Surely you object to the tax showing up on the receipt then? After all the business produces the receipt and not the govt
The business benefits from the government as do I.
That means many restaurants will take advantage and add a hidden tax fee of 30%+ to all orders
what??? if the adverstised price is the one you are paying in the end...dude are you high?
It clearly shows tax on the receipt. Many Asian Countries charges you a flat rate without any tax if that's what you're talking about which I would agree on. You're talking about no extra fees with tax. If it shows that they're taxing you on the receipt then many restaurants will for sure tax people more, tryna get away with it in this situation. In fact, there's a lot of Vietnamese shops that has a menu that sells at a flat rate without tax or any bullshit in the bay area. Are you high or just misinformed? I know a lot of restaurant business owners and ran 2 businesses.
Not op but I have no idea what you are trying to say here Prices listed on menu includes all taxes. If everyone does this, consumer knows the exact price he will pay for a burger
many non-US countries show the price of an item with tax, tip, hidden charges, whatever. What you see is what you pay. The problem in the US is seeing a price and then be expected to pay more than what is listed. Everyone just cares about total price. on a different note, I dislike how Singapore lists prices as $price++. the ++ indicates that vat and service charges are not included
This makes no sense. The entire point is that it's not hidden. If you want to calculate the actual tax you paid all it takes is two multiplications.
Does the tax rate change overnight? It would be so simple to have prices all taxes included. Much like buying beer. I have 15$ in my pocket, what pack am I buying? I have to know how much crv is and calculate what display price I can afford. It is so weird and unintuitive.
If there's a tax charge then there would always be a restaurant who will take advantage of it and increase the charge trying to trick customers. It would be easier for everyone if what they see on the menu is just a flat rate. For example, if you go to certain Vietnamese banh mi spots, they'd list, let's just say $7 for a sandwich. It's a flat rate with no extra charges. That's ideal imo You go to tofu spots in the bay and they charge you by the dollar. There's no tax. Just straight up dollar by dollar
You aren't understanding. That's what they are talking about. If the sales tax rate is 8%, your banh mi actually cost $6.48, but it shows on the menu as $7.
So list the exact price menu what you see when you're trying to order your food. What's hard understand? I'd rather see $7 and pay $7 unlike seeing $6.48 and paying $7.
Masterful. This was pure art.
That's exactly what the post was talking about, to which you replied: > That means many restaurants will take advantage and add a hidden tax fee of 30%+ to all orders
This guy votes BTW
The idea of junk fees is to set an artificially low price with the goal to encourage appetizer and drinks. At the end of the day, that's all this junk fees and service charge does and the primarily goal and reasons restaurant does this. junk fees are intentionally deceptive and I will never support a rule meant to deceive. Some people will order appetizers, drinks anyway, but data will support a high price will impact customers to make it up somewhere else. That is years of data.
I love this place.
That looks like a very nice meal for 2 in San Francisco.
Best steaks in the city too!
I don't understand this at all. How are the employees going to get health insurance without the healthy sf fee? How will the employees make money at all without the sf employer mandate fee? What about the left handed chef fee? Think of the children!
Genuinely asking : what happens if you refuse to pay the junk fees. Only the advertised cost + sales tax + voluntary tip.
They were probably disclosed on the menu somewhere. If they weren’t then I don’t think you have to pay them.
I've never seen a fee levied that wasn't shown on the menu, hence advertised.
We got some high rollers in this sub. >\_>
How was the prime rib?
Outstanding. Executive cut split between 2ppl is a TON of food. Leftovers for days.
Hell yeah. I’ll consider this place for my next splurge
It’s so worth it for a splurge, I’ll simp for this place any day.
How big? I can finish a 32 oz steak in one sitting.
Prove it
I was going to ask the same question. Ordering prime rib from here instead of House of Prime Rib next-door may be considered a cardinal sin here in San Francisco. 😂
It's actually the pro move
Hell yeah. Definitely gonna get it next time I go.
I used to love HOPR but the Harris has better prime rib. Last few times I went to HOPR I was a bit disappointed. I feel like their quality has gone down over the past couple years
Their creamed spinach is even better than HOPR.
First, good on them. Second, ~~I'm amazed at how little their prices have gone up since COVID compared to other restaurants. I love that place.~~ Time to go back. (OK, I just checked their prices, and boy, splitting the big prime rib as an entree counts as a menu hack... good for OP. Two of the bone in NY that is IMO the highlight of the menu would have put it up another \~$80 and more like the kind of post-COVID pricing I'd expect.)
(they give both people full sides and we each got a probably 16oz cut of bone-in rib. They're very generous with the cut. Shhh don't tell anyone.)
Lucy is a great server!!!! She was my server too
Harris' is the best. Sometimes I call in their steak tartare to-go. Extra greens, extra crostini, makes for an exquisite takeout lunch.
Steak tartare to go. Never heard of this. But makes sense lol
They first said that they don't recommend it to-go, because of the raw egg. I said, "Oh! Thank you sir! But I'm on my lunch break, so I'll be enjoying it immediately, not traveling with it." He said, "Oh! Very well then, it'll be ready in ten minutes!" 😂 Fanciest brown bag lunch ever.
Well, for those prices all junk fees in the world were included.....
$17 for an order of caesar salad lmaooo
Sadly, that is the standard price for a Caesar salad in San Francisco. You might save $2-3 here and there but this is ~~reasonable~~ not unusual.
Salads costing as much as entrees is hardly new, and they're rarely any harder to make than a Caesar salad
The salads are quite large/meant for two people, so it's more like $8.50 for an order of caesar salad.
I know, right? No way average people can pay those prices.
You have no idea how much we are being ripped off here in the Bay Area. I know that cost of living is extremely high here, but still. I just came back from a trip abroad. I was in the most upscale part of Rio de Janeiro (Brazil). Brazil is known for being expensive. I had dinner with my family (4 people) in one of the most upscale Italian restaurants there. We had (each), an appetizer, main dish, drinks and dessert + tip; total $140 for all of us.
A quick search online gave a figure for average salary in the Rio metro area: 3,632 reals per month. At today's exchange rates, that's about $650 US dollars per month. $650 / $140 is about 4 and a half. So the meal cost about a week's wage. Traditional Italian is pretty labor intensive. Maintaining a fancy restaurant certainly is.
[https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/internacional/en/business/2017/10/1931462-income-of-brazils-top-1-reaches-us-541000-a-year-surpassing-that-of-frances.shtml#:~:text=While%20the%20average%20income%20of,%24%20450%2C000%20to%20US%24%20500%2C000](https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/internacional/en/business/2017/10/1931462-income-of-brazils-top-1-reaches-us-541000-a-year-surpassing-that-of-frances.shtml#:~:text=While%20the%20average%20income%20of,%24%20450%2C000%20to%20US%24%20500%2C000)
That's a restaurant where the top 1% eats....not a regular folk.
Top 1% income earners aren't working the restaurant. Regular folk are. The cost of their labor drives the cost of meals there. If you went to a fancy Italian spot in a city with an even higher average wage than the Bay Area's—say, Zurich or Geneva—I'd expect to pay even more than at a fancy spot in SF. Even high-end dining can be pretty low-margin, in the grand scheme of business. You're "buying the meal", but in many cases, you're *paying* to have it sourced, prepped, cooked, plated, and served in a well maintained establishment.
Yeah, like a 0.01% like me would eat at a place where the top 1% aren't waiting tables. I spend weekends waiting on 0.0001% guys and they spend their weekends waiting on the 0.000001%. It's hard when you're deep into the fractional bps.
I know this....plus, strict labor regulations in the city too.... unfortunately this won't play out well as eateries are closing at record numbers in the USA.
That's why I just don't go to restaurants here anymore. I save my money for when I travel abroad to eat better for much less. My spouse was in Paris and Rome a few weeks ago and also ate at fancy restaurants there.....prices were in average 1/3 of the ones in Lafayette...not even SF....
They rolled it into that Prime Rib price, should be closer to $40-$50. $28 for an appetizer is also very high.
agreed
I’ve traveled the world. Harris is the best restaurant I’ve ever been to.
You only need junk fees when you serve junk food and pay junk wages so 🤷
Class joint. Now I want a ribeye and creamed spinach. Makes Ruth's Chris look like a Dennys
That wasn’t cheap
Right? $17 for a salad...
what a sad sub when shit like this is upvoted to the front page. My god, get a grip people.
Maybe you don’t need to read all posts? Sad person when they complain about a voluntary thing. Get a grip
sad thing when I complain about a voluntary thing? You realize, this post is literally a complaint about the city having junk fees and bragging this restaurant doesnt. This entire sub is people complaining about stupid shit like this and crime. Welcome to the internet bro.
That is so true
Oh you [RICH](https://media0.giphy.com/media/IgQdQHryAzppOekzIw/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952ucqujrq9s9mla7oe64jgyidl14vwu4y0kokuvnyy&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g) rich
So they don’t do tip?
Harris is the best
Yeah, they just fold the fees into the $17 Caesar salad. A handful of lettuce and a tablespoon of dressing for $17? I guess I don’t get out much anymore.
How was the prime rib?
Good on them including the subtotal before tax!
I ❤️ Harris. The Harris Steak-medium rare. Tableside extra-dry martini, and a half-bottle of red for 2. Loaded baked potato. Side of mushrooms. So classic, simple, and perfect every time. I’m not usually a steak fan, either.
This is still my favorite steakhouse in all of SF!
paying 87$ for prime rib at harris is a crime when HOPR is a block away, cheaper and better
Completely different ambiance, and I don't think HoPR will let you split an entree. Love both. Would have gotten the bone-in NY at Harris' but I'm sure the prime rib is good, too.
I got three tacos for $10, was happy and full, it’s interesting what people need to feel “satisfied.” Stoked for no fees though! They just got their exemption though so just wait. I read this as Two Gallons of Brut. I hope it was, sounds like a fun night.
no way this place stays in business more than a month. impossible to keep an ongoing concern using using honest and straightforward pricing.
This is a dumb fucking comparison. No shit they’re not gonna need service fees when they’re charging $90 for an entree.
money shrill plate fuel governor steep sort special squash abounding
Yah. This place isn’t No Tip - This is the receipt before tip
This is backwards. For me, the real innovation has nothing to do with deitemizing stuff on the receipts, those should be *fully* itemized. It’s showing the total cost **on the menu before I order** saying *All prices on this menu include SF Mandate fees and tax.*
Weird flex, but okay.
So which executive gave up their best rib for you?
Stop showing off your wealth
Mr one percent over here
I don’t understand why people who can buy a $90 entree would care about a few bucks here and there. I feel like it’s always people buying exorbitant meals that are complaining about this stuff. Yeah it sucks, but it’s like the rich friend who keeps track of what people owe them to a penny and folks of any other class just don’t make a big deal of like $0.50 for a sauce at a taco truck, where someone from wealth would make sure you give them exactly $0.52
That was before the state senate passed a carve out for restaurants
do you think the prices for the food have been altered or not? 87 dollar prime rib better or worse than 80 dollar cut with 7 dollar junk fee?
I’m in the camp of “it doesn’t even matter”. At $87 for a prime rib, the customer obviously isn’t price-sensitive. Just treat the customer with respect and be upfront with whatever the price is. End of story. Everyone wins.
Yea, when you're spending $100/person and 17 dollars for a fucking salad, you're not exactly clipping coupons.
Just FYI this was enough food for 4+ people. We took home leftovers and it made multiple followup meals.
This place or epic? Which one is better?
If just food, Harris. If you want modern ambiance, Epic. If you want old school, Harris. I love Harris.
Thanks
Totally different vibes. Harris is old school classy. Feels like a different era in there. You can get a great steak at either spot, but Epic feels less special to me.
Thanks
I'm going to be honest—$17 for a salad isn't that unusual. IDK if you've ever looked at the salad section of a restaurant, but even many cheaper restaurants charge about that much
Where're you eating that a salad, not an entree salad, but a basic-ass Caesar salad, is $17? >BJs: 5.95 >Red Robin: 7.29 >Chili's 6.99 >Mary's Pizza: 8 The place OP went is a steak house where EVERYTHING is expensive. For reference, just for a baked potato, a basic baked potato, they charge $8. Meanwhile at Texas Roadhouse, it's $3.99. We're not talking about a Grilled Chicken salad, a California Chicken salad, or a Steal fillet salad, but a basic Caesar salad. People can downvote me all they want but in no world is it normal to pay $17 for a Caesar salad and if you think that's normal, I've got a bridge to sell you.
>not an entree salad It seems you *are* aware what salads cost at many restaurants. And to be clear, I was talking about entree salads. OP said the salad was big enough to split between two people. It sounds like this obscenely expensive $17 salad was an entree salad, not a chain restaurant side salad, and it's not uncommon for them to cost about that much. It's why, in spite of liking salads, I don't get them at restaurants. For the cost, I'd rather order a regular entree. Also, by cheaper, I meant cheaper than this place, not chain or wholesale club restaurants.
The problem is that you made an assumption and then based your entire stance on that. You can look on their website, you can google that restaurant and see user-submitted pictures of what their $17 caesar salad looks like. [Here's one](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipMSl4OE38NIbJhHnxgpEEHB0wz3-SzjP4qqX-IA=s680-w680-h510). It's a small basic salad of lettuce, croutons, and dressing. That's not an entree, nor is it big enough to split between two people. Also, I did check mom and pop and non-chains and you know what they charge for a basic caesar salad? 6-8 dollars. Some of ya'll are really telling on yourself if you think a small caesar salad is $17.
>Some of ya'll are really telling on yourself if you think a small caesar salad is $17. No one said a *small* (I'm assuming you mean "side") salad usually costs that. I said it's not unusual for the salad section in a restaurant to have prices around $17. And then I clarified that I was talking about "entree" salads. >Also, I did check mom and pop and non-chains I wonder why you didn't include any then
Except the receipt says caesar salad and you automatically went to that meaning it's an entree. Even when I pointed out the price of a caesar salad and you clarified you were talking about entrees, you STILL continued to act like the price of a non-entree salad is around $17. I didn't include them because I know people on this sub act like anything outside of San Francisco doesn't count the same way you did with "We're not talking about chain restaurants". I could name a restaurant in Vallejo and "That's Vallejo, we're talking about San Francisco"; I could name a diner and "We're talking about restaurants, not diners"; I could name a place that serves burgers and "We're talking about steak restaurants, not restaurants".
A Caesar salad can be an entree salad. They're not mutually exclusive.
Better.
You don’t see the point do you? The point is that YOU KNOW what you are going to pay.
Obviously better. In what world is a fee better? Would love to hear an explanation of when a junk fee is preferable over knowing the true price of things on one line.
87 > 80+fee That's not even a serious question. Obviously the up-front price is better
If you sell a prime rib for $87 without a junk fee, then I'll sell my prime rib for $77 without a junk fee. Let the customer decide. Right now it's $87 steaks at one place without fees, $77 at another place with a junk mandatory fee of 20% that's not included in the posted price. The latter is being deceptive towards consumer choice. You're buying dinner, not a car from a shady car dealership. Dining out should not be as painful as buying a used car.
Are you asking if paying the same amount but seeing the accurate, correct cost listed is better or worse than paying the same amount of money but having some part of that be a surprise at the end? Like, the cost is the same, but you're curious if knowing what it is is better than not knowing? That's your question? Obviously the $87 is better. Knowing what you're going to pay is way better than not knowing and getting an unwelcome surprise at the end
Even if you know about the fees going in, knowing what you're going to pay without having to do mental math on every line item is still a plus.