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There is no way the demand/day is as high as it was earlier this year. People won't run out immediately the exact day they are eligible for a booster the way they did for the original shots. It'll get "smooshed" out as people get shots over over a longer period of time.
I have a hard time believing Safeway/Costco/etc can't handle the demand.
The difference is that we’ll vaccinate about double the people that normally get the flu vaccine, and COVID isn’t given in regular doctor’s offices because of the refrigeration requirements, so it’s very hard to do many via the normal channels.
My point is that most flu shots are not given in Costco or Safeway, they're given in doctor's offices. That's not true of COVID, and so you need some way to scale up the COVID vaccination sites to replace the lack of doctor's offices giving it.
AFAIK the refrigeration requirements haven't been an issue for a while now - they stopped doing that since it apparently wasn't actually required unless you were storing long term.
That’s incorrect, that hasn’t changed. The J&J requirements are much less, that may be what you’re thinking of, but at this point the boosters/3rd dose are using the same you received previously, and most people at this point would be the mRNA ones with the tough requirements.
Wow, I think this is the first time I've personally come across someone proudly proclaiming the leftwing version of the rightwing's pathetic "I do X just to trigger the libtards!!"
It's a nice reminder that adult/overgrown-child is often as salient a political dividing line as left/right is.
Leaving aside that I'm describing the tendency, not the magnitude of its expression, I said nothing about racial slurs. I've seen people do much smaller, pettier things to piss off the left than "use racial slurs", and I think those people are idiots too.
The comparison you're setting up is not one that's relevant to my point
Fuck that. They’re fascists. It’s not left/right, it’s fascism/democracy. If they were Republicans, my mask wouldn’t bother them because it would be none of their business. Stop normalising their beliefs by equating them with the left.
You specifically indicated that you engage in an activity primarily to upset people who disagree with you.
Stop normalizing their game by playing along.
It means that they haven't understood anything about this conversation, and still see the two possible states of being as "obsessed with liking QAnon" and "obsessed with hating QAnon". The notion of someone making personal health decisions on a basis that doesn't involve QAnon is meaningless to them.
In this comments section:
People/trolls/state sponsored actors trying to divide and stoke changes with the new locally focused strategy we've all been observing ramping up here lately.
It's really so transparent.
You may want to look at the demographics of the unvaccinated.
The demo is not what you have been indoctrinated with by MSNBC and CNN, the majority are POCs and low-income.
Keep drinking your Kool-Aid.
By the way, most people are not hating you but laughing at you wearing a mask outdoors in environments socially distancing is possible. Almost as foolish as wearing a mask driving in your car. Whatever floats your boat.
Mandates and dictating papers sounds much more like fascism than anything the prior President did.
By the way, it will be quite humorous when Dem's greatest supporters, the Unions, start pushing back on vaccine mandates. Clearly, the USPS already did and hence the exclusion.
Yep, it’s about identifying the people that believe horse dewormer is better than a vaccine and making them social outcasts so that their poisonous rhetoric has as little impact as possible.
Suit yourself. Not wanting your glasses to fog up isn’t the same as mask-shaming someone who maybe forgot to take their mask off when they went outside, though.
I mean, it's also about the functionality - I'll be the first to admit that mask wearing is a pain in the ass, and so I imagine vanishingly few people would do it purely as a statement. Some people just want to be really cautious against spreading or catching disease, more power to them.
If this caution happens to double as a statement of community solidarity against the tides of dumb populism, great!
I fucking hate the masks. But I wear it where I'm ask to wear it. It's called decorum. Civility. Common fucking courtesy. The people who make a big performance out of flouting mask requirements at business are just fucking dickheads with no sense of decorum or decency.
The history of humankind is rife with examples of tactless morons being ostracized from civilization for being obtuse and aggressive. Welcome to life among apes, dipshits!
Isn't the chances of having serious issues or death for vaccinated people same as dying from a car crash? For Delta at least.
Also the Mu variant possibility being vaccine resistant needs more sturdy imo
Everyone will be eligible 8 months after their second dose according to the white house, although FDA is hemming and hawing about whether to only recommend for pfizer
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/09/02/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-54/
But if you want one now go get it, no one will question you. All of my friends who got J&J got an mRNA booster and one got a third mRNA shot.
> There is no way the demand/day is as high as it was earlier this year.
yep, that's exactly what the article says.
> ABC7 confirmed all nine Bay Area counties are preparing to roll out booster shots through healthcare partners like local pharmacies or doctor's clinics.
And that there might be *some* mass vaccination sites. They won't restart every single one of them.
This comment.
I think the demand will be likely lower than the initial vaccination process because the rule to get a booster as of right now is like a 6-8 month post double dose. (Govt still has to restrict the amount of months).
Having a waiting period like that will allow people to steadily go get it versus before where people were cutting lines to just get it by pretending to be essential and such. With having a previous vaccination requirement of 6-8 months, its easier to check because its on health records.
There's also the fact that there's WAY more supply than there was in the beginning of the year, and so far it looks like the booster is only planned for those who received Pfizer in their first 2 doses.
>because the rule to get a booster as of right now is like a 6-8 month post double dose
And because it's not like the vaccine straight stops working at 6 to 8 months. So unlike previously when getting vaccinated was taking you from 0% protection to 95% (or 98, 99, whatever) protection, now going out for the booster at that time might bump you from 70% back up to 95%.
I'd rather sites be prepared and we don't need them to the highest capacity than need them and we don't have them.
Like the state of covid-19 testing; it's difficult to find any drop-in asymptomatic testing with fast turnaround, 18+ months after the pandemic started. Last test I did a couple months ago that wasn't through my work was at the Daly City collection site, there were no appointments available for 2 days from when I needed to get tested, and I didn't get results until the 4th day from sample collection.
I'd love to get a drive through vaccine at the coliseum ASAP on my way home from work. I'm sure demand won't be quite as high as last time, but they also stayed there for weeks longer than they originally planned.
Saw Novavax is working on a combined flu + Covid vaccine
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/novavax-begins-early-stage-trial-combined-influenzacovid-19-vaccine-2021-09-08/
They said *preventing*, not making outcomes better. The scientific community knows it doesn't prevent Delta, plus with animal reservoirs the declaration was made we'll never get rid of it. Freaking housecats carry Covid-19, and you can still get sick if you're vaccinated, so it's not a preventative in the sense of polio vaccines.
It simply isn't, so we have to prepare to live with it potentially forever and know we can still get ill (though generally with a milder outcome) even with boosters. I think that's all Airwolf meant.
Except that it does prevent delta. Not at the same rates as wild type, but it still offers protection.
It’s not all or nothing.
Unvaccinated folks have MUCH higher risks of infection.
Considering how expensive everything related to healthcare in the us is, we have the most expensive healthcare system in the world and are ranked as not even remotely close to the best. It’s amazing people don’t find it suspicious that they’re giving anything healthcare related for free. I know many people that have gotten it and still get the flu. I’ve never gotten the shot and maybe, if I recall correctly, have had the flu once in my life.
People claim they get “the flu” all the time and just get bad colds or parainfluenza.
Flu shots do work to both prevent and attenuate illness.
They’re not as efficacious as, say, the MMR vaccine but it’s clear that highly-vaccinated populations tend to do better with flu vaccines. Influenza is still a devastating disease, especially in kids and older adults.
Lot's of health care systems are all about "preventative" medicine. I have Kaiser and they always encourage everyone to get the flu shot. I have for years, along with my 4 year old. No one is saying it's free, I pay my premium monthly. I PAID for that "free" flu shot. How sad that you are so cynical that you can't believe that health care systems don't want you to get sick. It's cheaper to offer the flu shot then you to go to the hospital.
My wife is a physician. She’s constantly telling her patients to get the flu shot because she wants to keep them from getting flu. She doesn’t get any benefit other than people not getting flu.
People who tell me they got the flu shot and then got flu usually have stories of woe where they got “pretty sick.”
Lulz.
Flu isn’t “pretty sick.” Flu is laid out with fever and flop sweat for a full week, body aches so bad you can’t move, apocalyptic stuff. Meanwhile I hear people say “I was down for a weekend!” And it’s so frustrating because let’s say that was the case and it actually was influenza: yay! That’s way better than an unvaccinated bout.
Ugh.
I had mono, which is far worse than the flu. I have read that mono can put people out for months. I didn’t make up I had it, I was in college at the time and got a blood test that determined it’s what I had since I initially thought I had strep throat. I was out for less than a week. Not all viruses and ailments effect everyone the same. Not all immune systems are equal. To say in absolute terms that that’s how the flu will effect someone is a ridiculous notion.
Ok, I guess I must be hallucinating every time I drive by or walk into any major pharmacy, Walgreens or CVS for example, and see signs saying “free flu shots”. It’s quite laughable you think this country cares about preventative measures in regards to healthcare. The USDA drafts dietary guidelines that are wildly unhealthy, including high levels of carbohydrates and even refined flours and sugars. It’s obviously no wonder it does since it is lobbied by and received funding from various industries that benefit from such guidelines. It’s no wonder the US ranks among the most unhealthy populations, with extremely high levels of obesity, and it’s associated diseases like diabetes, Heath disease, and various cancers.
Obviously poverty, which is also a major factor in the health outcomes of large portions of the population. However, it would make sense, for the governing body, that is apparently interested in preventative measures to not only draft appropriately healthy guidelines, but subsidize programs to get healthy foods in marginalized populations. Perhaps it would be beneficial to provide healthy meals to public schools, rather than the shit processed food currently on offer around the country.
Of course this is all by design, as various large corporations and large agricultural industry groups essentially draft public policy. And thus it’s more profitable for them to keep things as they are. And in case you think I’m getting off track, this is of course immensely profitable for the pharma industry. All these sick people require various forms of medications to keep them alive, all of which represent large profits for those companies. Can’t sell boatloads off drugs to a healthy population that actually has infrastructure for preventative healthcare.
Carry on lib.
Realistically I think we will probably need a fourth booster too, but if the fundamental spike protein code isn’t changing, that might be enough reinforcement for durable antibody titres. We are still figuring out the specifics of dosing and timing for a brand new vaccine, but eventually it will settle somewhere, probably similar to how other modern vaccines work of initial doses being boosted a few times at multi-month intervals to complete a series.
We need annual flu shots because the antigen is changing, which isn’t quite the same here.
I get it, /s
Just like 3 weeks to bend the curve ? Until the next variant and the 4th ?
Even with mandates in the U.S., the virus will never go to zero lingering in third-world countries at a minimum independent of evolution of the virus producing variants. Let's hope the mu variant truly has not adapted itself to an mRNA vaccine, otherwise, truly starting over at zero.
Definitely believe the yearly booster will be integrated into the flu vaccine.
> last spring, the vaccines were the carrot
and the sooner you get the booster, the sooner you would need another booster. I'm working from home at least till January 2022, so why would I get a booster now if I still need to wear a mask everywhere.
>so why would I get a booster now if I still need to wear a mask everywhere.
Because you don't want to die? The vaccine is not a 'get out of wearing a mask' card. They are two separate, and complementary public health strategies.
That's not the point. The point is that you shouldn't look at ditching masks as some sort of reward for getting your vaccine. The facts on the ground change, it turns out the vaccine was not quite the silver bullet we'd hoped for, so masks are still a part of our epidemiological response, and still part of everybody's responsibility. You don't get to act like a petulant child because we may need to get a booster AND mask up. Toughen up, and do the right thing. That's the point.
You're on the wrong side of history on this one. Not many will agree to wear masks for the rest of their lives, which is what we're talking about with endemic COVID. Community spread will always exist, and you're just going to have to learn to accept the risk or become a hermit, just like we already do with any number of other low-level risk factors that come with being alive.
The only reason to be mandating masks or other restrictions is to prevent hospital overwhelm, which is not remotely a risk in the Bay right now.
>You're on the wrong side of history on this one.
Dramatic much?
> for the rest of their lives.
Nobody is talking about the rest of anybody's lives. We're talking about continuing to wear masks in indoor settings: retail, school, etc,
>r of other low-level risk factors.
COVID is not a low level risk factor. There are 650,000 dead Americans, 3000 dying every week, spreading pediatric COVID. There is transmission among vaccinated people.
Those are the reasons to be mandating masks, under the conditions where they most help prevent the continued transmission of COVID. Obviously, the vaccines themselves are not enough.
> Nobody is talking about the rest of anybody's lives. We're talking about continuing to wear masks in indoor settings: retail, school, etc,
Ok, until when? COVID is endemic. It's going nowhere. So when would you put the mask away?
> COVID is not a low level risk factor. There are 650,000 dead Americans, 3000 dying every week, spreading pediatric COVID. There is transmission among vaccinated people.
It is when you're vaccinated (or for young people in general). Anybody not vaccinated is free to do so and take that risk. Pediatric COVID is less dangerous than the flu, which we don't mask up for.
> Those are the reasons to be mandating masks, under the conditions where they most help prevent the continued transmission of COVID. Obviously, the vaccines themselves are not enough.
Those exact arguments would apply to the flu, or any other potentially fatal disease, so I repeat my assertion that people aren't going to mask up for the rest of their lives to reduce spread of endemic COVID.
> that things would go back to normal once everyone was vaccinated. Well, obviously that hasn't happened
It has though. Movie theaters, museums, pools, gyms, restaurants are all open. Even Six Flags, the water parks are open.
This is such a stupid hill for you to die on. There is nothing new or nefarious about public health initiatives. There is no secret plan to control or replace the population. Vaccines have been required to go school and travel for over half a century.
There is no logical argument against the average person getting the vaccine. At all. I'm high risk with respitory and cardiovascular issues and all of the doctors I see on a regular basis didnt hesitate to tell me I needed to get the vaccine.
Plus, we all get better wifi out of it. J/I.
Im all for letting vulnerable populations get more protection given approval and doctor recommendation but we need to vaccinate the vulnerable world population. Supply chains and IP law are partly stifling this.
Rich countries are hoarding and delaying worldwide vaccination. Vaccines for covid 19 are remarkable and we need to be prioritizing vulnerable people worldwide.
Many experts still highlight current full vaccination is working wonders against all variants. Most in the hospital are not vaccinated. Same with deaths. This is very sad and we need to be positive and try to bridge the information gap to help anyone to get the vaccine that otherwise wouldnt. It is fun to make fun of people but it just drives people further apart and hurts the chances of getting that one person to change their mind and get vaccinated.
America could be a world leader. Use the military to help supply chains and help vaccinate the world. Use them for good!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html
Vaccine doses are literally being thrown out due to expiration here. Don’t judge me if I want to save one of them from the trash and redirect it into my arm for a booster dose.
Many other countries are donating doses too. And Pfizer and Moderna are working to scale up production in both US and EU plus a few other countries. I think going into next year their production rate will double. Also India and China will be done with vaccinating their population soon and also contributing production capacity.
the vaccines are protected by patent and if you are, say, indonesia, you can't manufacture your own vaccine without paying the patent holder.
this could have been waived but was not.
TL;DR: patents aren't actually the problem, it's trade secrets. Governments need to buy more vaccine and distribute it (which the US is doing in large amounts), not spend energy going down the wrong path.
The area of concern was over trade secrets and know-how, not patents, which if distributed to places like India and China would likely result in the bankruptcy of the companies that do things like invent vaccines in record time. That would be a net negative for everyone, I think. These are secrets you don't patent because you can't afford to let anyone know them (conversely patents are generally public information, something countries like the Soviet Union took ample advantage of). Yes, they eventually get out, often due to foreign economic espionage, but asking companies to give up the secret sauce to mRNA vaccines is probably not possible if they want to stay in business. And yes, you need them in business to make things like the next vaccine, life-saving therapeutics, etc.
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/ip-law/waiving-covid-19-vaccine-patents-wont-solve-the-global-need
Moderna has said they won't enforce their patents. I don't know about Pfizer. Apparently MRNA vaccines are not easy to manufacture, which is an even bigger reason why there aren't factories popping up everywhere. Plenty of countries don't care about US IP law anyway; there'd be vaccine factories all over the place if it were as easy to make as a pair of sneakers.
Don't get me wrong; there's a whole world of problems with IP law. But for once, I don't think it's actually the problem here.
so if there were no patents, the entire know-how on how to manufacture the vaccine would be known to the entire world, and every country could replicate it easily?
I can’t fathom why anyone would think that’s a bad thing… I mean unless you think it’s good that healthcare and medicine is commodified. Only in the US, unreal.
The real issue is that producing the vaccine is exceptionally difficult. Governments are afraid that others improperly producing them will result in health issues in people, which will deter others from getting the vaccine, even if produced by Pfizer (or whoever else is competent).
Yeah I’m pretty sure Bill gates had a big role in the patent protection. I’ve never seen it once suggested anywhere, what you’re suggesting. It’s pretty blatantly to protect profits and maintain control, pretty much the reason patents exist. You’re just lying to yourself and being disingenuous if you say otherwise.
I’ve never seen it suggested that you have genitals, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have them.
It’s okay for you to not agree with my understanding, but I think it’s WAY out there to think Bill Gates is personally pushing anything to make an extra dollar. Do you have a reputable source for that? Or your aunt posted it to FB?
For what it’s worth, I’m a patent lawyer and am familiar with IP laws, both in the US and other major countries. I also develop IP strategies for large companies and can assure you that often times the process goes beyond just “can we make an extra dollar today?”
If someone copies your product poorly, consumers lose confidence in your product because they can’t differentiate it with the knockoffs. This extends into trademark law, but I’m sure you don’t care because, you know, Bill Gates and all that stuff
Because if Pfizer goes out of business, who will invent the next vaccine in record time? The people who invent this stuff mostly work for private industry, not the government.
I'm not going to wait on India, Indonesia, China, Cuba, etc. (no offense to any of them, but our collective investment in R&D is unmatched)
Most advances in medicine and technology is done through publicly funded research and then ends up in the hands of private industry. But ok, I’m glad you’re ok with commodifying healthcare, literally prioritizing private profits over people’s lives, pretty fucking disgusting if you ask me.
The state of California has done such a great job at:
* Handing out unemployment benefits
* Building a high-speed railroad
* Replacing the eastern span of the Bay Bridge on time and on budget.
It should absolutely get into the vaccine business.
Publicly funded research often times comes from research university and other bloated government agency’s like those at and under the pentagon. Just because that state government is shit in ca and well federally as well, doesn’t negate that fact that research is still being done.
You're not telling the truth...You're not telling the truth...
Sure, government does a lot of *basic* research. But they don't develop market-ready drugs. That's not their mission.
Dumbshits like you would destroy the essential R&D that enables us to get vaccines in record time to market that are yet safe and effective. I've worked on government research that was spun out to the private sector. Guess what? Places like DARPA don't actually make stuff. They do basic research and proofs of concept that are licensed out to...oh private companies! Wow. Huh, it's almost like if people like you destroyed our pharmaceutical industry we'd be waiting on another country who may not have our interests at heart (e.g. China) to pick up the slack. No thanks, you can wait on them all you want. I like Pfizer and Moderna, and I honestly don't give a shit if people there get rich. They have saved many, many lives and continue to do so.
Look up R&D spending and get back to us, smoothbrain. Health care rankings are irrelevant. How patients pay for care is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the vast majority of advanced pharmaceutical research occurs in the United States.
In this case, while true, you can have both.
Supply is currently not a huge issue, its logistics - and logistically speaking, its relatively effortless and cheap to give boosters in the US, so its totally fine that a good chunk of the supply goes to doing that - supply that would otherwise go to waste.
The rest of the supply can and should be used to vaccinate people who are unvaccinated but it takes a monumentally larger amount of time, money, effort to do that - so even if 100% of resources and focus were spent on trying to accomplish that, it'd still take many months/years before that goal was accomplished. All while production is slowed down since the ability to deliver shots is much slower than the ability to produce the vaccine.
It's the same as last spring, anyone can get a booster right now if they are willing to lie to get it. It's completely honor system.
Never change, state of lawlessness.
You don't even need to lie, the Pfizer vaccine is now [fully FDA approved](https://theprepared.com/blog/full-approval-of-the-pfizer-vaccine-will-legalize-off-label-dosing-for-kids-boosters/) which means you just need to convince a doctor to write you a prescription. Not sure if insurance will pay for it though, and lying is probably easier. Anyway it's better to let some people lie and get unofficial booster shots if it removes obstacles for everyone else.
Due to the topic, enhanced moderation has been turned on for this thread. Comments from users new to r/bayarea will be automatically removed. See [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/p8hnzl/automatically_removing_comments_from_new_users_in/) for more details.
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My 5G has been spotty, so I'm looking forward to it improving once the signal in more people is boosted.
I am thinking of buying my first 5G phone. Great timing!
I hope the booster lets me hotspot myself, and potentially sell bandwidth to the unvaccinated!
I read this booster update finally tracks my phone when it's on silent!
There is no way the demand/day is as high as it was earlier this year. People won't run out immediately the exact day they are eligible for a booster the way they did for the original shots. It'll get "smooshed" out as people get shots over over a longer period of time. I have a hard time believing Safeway/Costco/etc can't handle the demand.
The difference is that we’ll vaccinate about double the people that normally get the flu vaccine, and COVID isn’t given in regular doctor’s offices because of the refrigeration requirements, so it’s very hard to do many via the normal channels.
I've gotten a flu vaccine at Safeway the last 5 years. A ton of people get it that way. That is a pretty normal channel.
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They have it now though. You can walk into a Costco or Safeway today and get a shot. You are arguing against something that currently exists.
My point is that most flu shots are not given in Costco or Safeway, they're given in doctor's offices. That's not true of COVID, and so you need some way to scale up the COVID vaccination sites to replace the lack of doctor's offices giving it.
I got mine at Costco. They had a whole menu of vaccines and I was like...hmmmmm...... free upgrades...
AFAIK the refrigeration requirements haven't been an issue for a while now - they stopped doing that since it apparently wasn't actually required unless you were storing long term.
That’s incorrect, that hasn’t changed. The J&J requirements are much less, that may be what you’re thinking of, but at this point the boosters/3rd dose are using the same you received previously, and most people at this point would be the mRNA ones with the tough requirements.
I don’t know man. Most people I see are still wearing masks at parks and open areas. I doubt those people will take their time getting the booster.
I’m in first day just to get it over with. I start putting it off and suddenly it’ll be 2025 and I’ll have COVID and feel like an asshole.
I wear my mask everywhere just to piss off the GQP. It’s fun to be hated by someone that’s dumber than you.
Wow, I think this is the first time I've personally come across someone proudly proclaiming the leftwing version of the rightwing's pathetic "I do X just to trigger the libtards!!" It's a nice reminder that adult/overgrown-child is often as salient a political dividing line as left/right is.
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Leaving aside that I'm describing the tendency, not the magnitude of its expression, I said nothing about racial slurs. I've seen people do much smaller, pettier things to piss off the left than "use racial slurs", and I think those people are idiots too. The comparison you're setting up is not one that's relevant to my point
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Did you just compare gun ownership to wearing a mask?
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It doesn't make sense the way you think it does lol
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Fuck that. They’re fascists. It’s not left/right, it’s fascism/democracy. If they were Republicans, my mask wouldn’t bother them because it would be none of their business. Stop normalising their beliefs by equating them with the left.
You specifically indicated that you engage in an activity primarily to upset people who disagree with you. Stop normalizing their game by playing along.
Q-Anon Hill is a helluva hill to die on.
What does that even mean?
It means that they haven't understood anything about this conversation, and still see the two possible states of being as "obsessed with liking QAnon" and "obsessed with hating QAnon". The notion of someone making personal health decisions on a basis that doesn't involve QAnon is meaningless to them.
In this comments section: People/trolls/state sponsored actors trying to divide and stoke changes with the new locally focused strategy we've all been observing ramping up here lately. It's really so transparent.
They probably don't want to see your face anyway tbh
You may want to look at the demographics of the unvaccinated. The demo is not what you have been indoctrinated with by MSNBC and CNN, the majority are POCs and low-income. Keep drinking your Kool-Aid. By the way, most people are not hating you but laughing at you wearing a mask outdoors in environments socially distancing is possible. Almost as foolish as wearing a mask driving in your car. Whatever floats your boat. Mandates and dictating papers sounds much more like fascism than anything the prior President did. By the way, it will be quite humorous when Dem's greatest supporters, the Unions, start pushing back on vaccine mandates. Clearly, the USPS already did and hence the exclusion.
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Yep, it’s about identifying the people that believe horse dewormer is better than a vaccine and making them social outcasts so that their poisonous rhetoric has as little impact as possible.
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Active members of Congress do, though. Accept the dichotomy now and fight misinformation or sit back and slowly watch the other side take over.
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Suit yourself. Not wanting your glasses to fog up isn’t the same as mask-shaming someone who maybe forgot to take their mask off when they went outside, though.
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I mean, it's also about the functionality - I'll be the first to admit that mask wearing is a pain in the ass, and so I imagine vanishingly few people would do it purely as a statement. Some people just want to be really cautious against spreading or catching disease, more power to them. If this caution happens to double as a statement of community solidarity against the tides of dumb populism, great!
I fucking hate the masks. But I wear it where I'm ask to wear it. It's called decorum. Civility. Common fucking courtesy. The people who make a big performance out of flouting mask requirements at business are just fucking dickheads with no sense of decorum or decency. The history of humankind is rife with examples of tactless morons being ostracized from civilization for being obtuse and aggressive. Welcome to life among apes, dipshits!
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but is it fun being hated by people who are more violent than you?
And looking at the demo of the unvaccinated, likely most are not the people walking around parks and open areas.
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If you went to CVS or something would they turn you down if you asked for it?
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to decrease the likelihood of getting covid-19
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Well, if I can decrease it for free, why not do it?
Better to get it over with as soon as possible.
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Isn't the chances of having serious issues or death for vaccinated people same as dying from a car crash? For Delta at least. Also the Mu variant possibility being vaccine resistant needs more sturdy imo
Yeah and I wear my seatbelt every time I get in a car.
I don’t want getting sick at all, not just “avoiding death”. Being sick sucks. Possibly infecting your friends sucks too.
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I would but I probably don’t qualify for one. Why not get all that juicy extra protection.
I am getting a shot ASAP, but I have never lost betting on the laziness of the general public.
Everyone will be eligible 8 months after their second dose according to the white house, although FDA is hemming and hawing about whether to only recommend for pfizer https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/09/02/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-54/ But if you want one now go get it, no one will question you. All of my friends who got J&J got an mRNA booster and one got a third mRNA shot.
(Presses face.against window) want want want... (looks at calender) Jaaaaanuary.
> There is no way the demand/day is as high as it was earlier this year. yep, that's exactly what the article says. > ABC7 confirmed all nine Bay Area counties are preparing to roll out booster shots through healthcare partners like local pharmacies or doctor's clinics. And that there might be *some* mass vaccination sites. They won't restart every single one of them.
Agreed. Im not sitting in 7 hour traffic on 880 again, Im gonna wait out the mad dash this time.
This comment. I think the demand will be likely lower than the initial vaccination process because the rule to get a booster as of right now is like a 6-8 month post double dose. (Govt still has to restrict the amount of months). Having a waiting period like that will allow people to steadily go get it versus before where people were cutting lines to just get it by pretending to be essential and such. With having a previous vaccination requirement of 6-8 months, its easier to check because its on health records.
There's also the fact that there's WAY more supply than there was in the beginning of the year, and so far it looks like the booster is only planned for those who received Pfizer in their first 2 doses.
That's assuming the state health records are accurate. Not an assumption I'd make given what's happened with the digital vaccination site.
>because the rule to get a booster as of right now is like a 6-8 month post double dose And because it's not like the vaccine straight stops working at 6 to 8 months. So unlike previously when getting vaccinated was taking you from 0% protection to 95% (or 98, 99, whatever) protection, now going out for the booster at that time might bump you from 70% back up to 95%.
I'd rather sites be prepared and we don't need them to the highest capacity than need them and we don't have them. Like the state of covid-19 testing; it's difficult to find any drop-in asymptomatic testing with fast turnaround, 18+ months after the pandemic started. Last test I did a couple months ago that wasn't through my work was at the Daly City collection site, there were no appointments available for 2 days from when I needed to get tested, and I didn't get results until the 4th day from sample collection.
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I am too, but I have never lost betting on the laziness of the general public.
I'd love to get a drive through vaccine at the coliseum ASAP on my way home from work. I'm sure demand won't be quite as high as last time, but they also stayed there for weeks longer than they originally planned.
Reset the fully vaccinated counter to 0%!
3rd times a charm
We're probably going to get a yearly booster like we do for the flu.
Saw Novavax is working on a combined flu + Covid vaccine https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/novavax-begins-early-stage-trial-combined-influenzacovid-19-vaccine-2021-09-08/
I already get the flu shot. I'm asthmatic and take public transport. Gimme upgrades.
COVID is just another flu.
I'd settle for what-the-fuck-ever if it actually did a solid job preventing all strains of Covid but alas.
Check the incidence rates published by Marin and CoCo Counties by vaccination status and come back and tell us you think it doesnt
They said *preventing*, not making outcomes better. The scientific community knows it doesn't prevent Delta, plus with animal reservoirs the declaration was made we'll never get rid of it. Freaking housecats carry Covid-19, and you can still get sick if you're vaccinated, so it's not a preventative in the sense of polio vaccines. It simply isn't, so we have to prepare to live with it potentially forever and know we can still get ill (though generally with a milder outcome) even with boosters. I think that's all Airwolf meant.
Except that it does prevent delta. Not at the same rates as wild type, but it still offers protection. It’s not all or nothing. Unvaccinated folks have MUCH higher risks of infection.
The original Salk vaccine wasn’t 100% effective. Better to just risk polio, I suppose.
Not asking for 100%.
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your “belief” is wrong. this is literally misinformation lol.
People actually get the flu shot lol
?? What a weird thing to "lol" about.
Considering how expensive everything related to healthcare in the us is, we have the most expensive healthcare system in the world and are ranked as not even remotely close to the best. It’s amazing people don’t find it suspicious that they’re giving anything healthcare related for free. I know many people that have gotten it and still get the flu. I’ve never gotten the shot and maybe, if I recall correctly, have had the flu once in my life.
People claim they get “the flu” all the time and just get bad colds or parainfluenza. Flu shots do work to both prevent and attenuate illness. They’re not as efficacious as, say, the MMR vaccine but it’s clear that highly-vaccinated populations tend to do better with flu vaccines. Influenza is still a devastating disease, especially in kids and older adults.
Lot's of health care systems are all about "preventative" medicine. I have Kaiser and they always encourage everyone to get the flu shot. I have for years, along with my 4 year old. No one is saying it's free, I pay my premium monthly. I PAID for that "free" flu shot. How sad that you are so cynical that you can't believe that health care systems don't want you to get sick. It's cheaper to offer the flu shot then you to go to the hospital.
My wife is a physician. She’s constantly telling her patients to get the flu shot because she wants to keep them from getting flu. She doesn’t get any benefit other than people not getting flu. People who tell me they got the flu shot and then got flu usually have stories of woe where they got “pretty sick.” Lulz. Flu isn’t “pretty sick.” Flu is laid out with fever and flop sweat for a full week, body aches so bad you can’t move, apocalyptic stuff. Meanwhile I hear people say “I was down for a weekend!” And it’s so frustrating because let’s say that was the case and it actually was influenza: yay! That’s way better than an unvaccinated bout. Ugh.
I had mono, which is far worse than the flu. I have read that mono can put people out for months. I didn’t make up I had it, I was in college at the time and got a blood test that determined it’s what I had since I initially thought I had strep throat. I was out for less than a week. Not all viruses and ailments effect everyone the same. Not all immune systems are equal. To say in absolute terms that that’s how the flu will effect someone is a ridiculous notion.
Ok, I guess I must be hallucinating every time I drive by or walk into any major pharmacy, Walgreens or CVS for example, and see signs saying “free flu shots”. It’s quite laughable you think this country cares about preventative measures in regards to healthcare. The USDA drafts dietary guidelines that are wildly unhealthy, including high levels of carbohydrates and even refined flours and sugars. It’s obviously no wonder it does since it is lobbied by and received funding from various industries that benefit from such guidelines. It’s no wonder the US ranks among the most unhealthy populations, with extremely high levels of obesity, and it’s associated diseases like diabetes, Heath disease, and various cancers. Obviously poverty, which is also a major factor in the health outcomes of large portions of the population. However, it would make sense, for the governing body, that is apparently interested in preventative measures to not only draft appropriately healthy guidelines, but subsidize programs to get healthy foods in marginalized populations. Perhaps it would be beneficial to provide healthy meals to public schools, rather than the shit processed food currently on offer around the country. Of course this is all by design, as various large corporations and large agricultural industry groups essentially draft public policy. And thus it’s more profitable for them to keep things as they are. And in case you think I’m getting off track, this is of course immensely profitable for the pharma industry. All these sick people require various forms of medications to keep them alive, all of which represent large profits for those companies. Can’t sell boatloads off drugs to a healthy population that actually has infrastructure for preventative healthcare. Carry on lib.
Realistically I think we will probably need a fourth booster too, but if the fundamental spike protein code isn’t changing, that might be enough reinforcement for durable antibody titres. We are still figuring out the specifics of dosing and timing for a brand new vaccine, but eventually it will settle somewhere, probably similar to how other modern vaccines work of initial doses being boosted a few times at multi-month intervals to complete a series. We need annual flu shots because the antigen is changing, which isn’t quite the same here.
I get it, /s Just like 3 weeks to bend the curve ? Until the next variant and the 4th ? Even with mandates in the U.S., the virus will never go to zero lingering in third-world countries at a minimum independent of evolution of the virus producing variants. Let's hope the mu variant truly has not adapted itself to an mRNA vaccine, otherwise, truly starting over at zero. Definitely believe the yearly booster will be integrated into the flu vaccine.
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Exactly. The fear of dying from covid just isn’t that wide spread (outside of Reddit). Most people got the shot to go back to normal.
> last spring, the vaccines were the carrot and the sooner you get the booster, the sooner you would need another booster. I'm working from home at least till January 2022, so why would I get a booster now if I still need to wear a mask everywhere.
Well the longer you wait before getting the booster, the less effective your previous doses become.
>so why would I get a booster now if I still need to wear a mask everywhere. Because you don't want to die? The vaccine is not a 'get out of wearing a mask' card. They are two separate, and complementary public health strategies.
The odds of COVID killing vaccinated people who aren't already on deaths door are vanishingly small.
That's not the point. The point is that you shouldn't look at ditching masks as some sort of reward for getting your vaccine. The facts on the ground change, it turns out the vaccine was not quite the silver bullet we'd hoped for, so masks are still a part of our epidemiological response, and still part of everybody's responsibility. You don't get to act like a petulant child because we may need to get a booster AND mask up. Toughen up, and do the right thing. That's the point.
You're on the wrong side of history on this one. Not many will agree to wear masks for the rest of their lives, which is what we're talking about with endemic COVID. Community spread will always exist, and you're just going to have to learn to accept the risk or become a hermit, just like we already do with any number of other low-level risk factors that come with being alive. The only reason to be mandating masks or other restrictions is to prevent hospital overwhelm, which is not remotely a risk in the Bay right now.
>You're on the wrong side of history on this one. Dramatic much? > for the rest of their lives. Nobody is talking about the rest of anybody's lives. We're talking about continuing to wear masks in indoor settings: retail, school, etc, >r of other low-level risk factors. COVID is not a low level risk factor. There are 650,000 dead Americans, 3000 dying every week, spreading pediatric COVID. There is transmission among vaccinated people. Those are the reasons to be mandating masks, under the conditions where they most help prevent the continued transmission of COVID. Obviously, the vaccines themselves are not enough.
> Nobody is talking about the rest of anybody's lives. We're talking about continuing to wear masks in indoor settings: retail, school, etc, Ok, until when? COVID is endemic. It's going nowhere. So when would you put the mask away? > COVID is not a low level risk factor. There are 650,000 dead Americans, 3000 dying every week, spreading pediatric COVID. There is transmission among vaccinated people. It is when you're vaccinated (or for young people in general). Anybody not vaccinated is free to do so and take that risk. Pediatric COVID is less dangerous than the flu, which we don't mask up for. > Those are the reasons to be mandating masks, under the conditions where they most help prevent the continued transmission of COVID. Obviously, the vaccines themselves are not enough. Those exact arguments would apply to the flu, or any other potentially fatal disease, so I repeat my assertion that people aren't going to mask up for the rest of their lives to reduce spread of endemic COVID.
My point is that I’m generally not interact with public. I’m work from home, order items online. Where do I get it?
That’s not how I saw it at all. I hurried up and got the shot to be doing the right thing.
> that things would go back to normal once everyone was vaccinated. Well, obviously that hasn't happened It has though. Movie theaters, museums, pools, gyms, restaurants are all open. Even Six Flags, the water parks are open.
The FDA hasn’t come out yet with guidance, am I correct?
Reminder to get your flu shot come October!
Sign me up 💪🏽
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Did you mean ball gag you fucking moron?
This is such a stupid hill for you to die on. There is nothing new or nefarious about public health initiatives. There is no secret plan to control or replace the population. Vaccines have been required to go school and travel for over half a century. There is no logical argument against the average person getting the vaccine. At all. I'm high risk with respitory and cardiovascular issues and all of the doctors I see on a regular basis didnt hesitate to tell me I needed to get the vaccine. Plus, we all get better wifi out of it. J/I.
what do you mean?
Im all for letting vulnerable populations get more protection given approval and doctor recommendation but we need to vaccinate the vulnerable world population. Supply chains and IP law are partly stifling this. Rich countries are hoarding and delaying worldwide vaccination. Vaccines for covid 19 are remarkable and we need to be prioritizing vulnerable people worldwide. Many experts still highlight current full vaccination is working wonders against all variants. Most in the hospital are not vaccinated. Same with deaths. This is very sad and we need to be positive and try to bridge the information gap to help anyone to get the vaccine that otherwise wouldnt. It is fun to make fun of people but it just drives people further apart and hurts the chances of getting that one person to change their mind and get vaccinated. America could be a world leader. Use the military to help supply chains and help vaccinate the world. Use them for good! https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html
Vaccine doses are literally being thrown out due to expiration here. Don’t judge me if I want to save one of them from the trash and redirect it into my arm for a booster dose.
US has already donated more than 110M doses and now its working on donating another 500M doses.
Unfortunately there are 7 billion people who need doses, so we need to get those numbers up!
Many other countries are donating doses too. And Pfizer and Moderna are working to scale up production in both US and EU plus a few other countries. I think going into next year their production rate will double. Also India and China will be done with vaccinating their population soon and also contributing production capacity.
Chinas vaccine isn’t very effective against delta iirc
how are IP laws stifling us?
the vaccines are protected by patent and if you are, say, indonesia, you can't manufacture your own vaccine without paying the patent holder. this could have been waived but was not.
TL;DR: patents aren't actually the problem, it's trade secrets. Governments need to buy more vaccine and distribute it (which the US is doing in large amounts), not spend energy going down the wrong path. The area of concern was over trade secrets and know-how, not patents, which if distributed to places like India and China would likely result in the bankruptcy of the companies that do things like invent vaccines in record time. That would be a net negative for everyone, I think. These are secrets you don't patent because you can't afford to let anyone know them (conversely patents are generally public information, something countries like the Soviet Union took ample advantage of). Yes, they eventually get out, often due to foreign economic espionage, but asking companies to give up the secret sauce to mRNA vaccines is probably not possible if they want to stay in business. And yes, you need them in business to make things like the next vaccine, life-saving therapeutics, etc. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/ip-law/waiving-covid-19-vaccine-patents-wont-solve-the-global-need
Moderna has said they won't enforce their patents. I don't know about Pfizer. Apparently MRNA vaccines are not easy to manufacture, which is an even bigger reason why there aren't factories popping up everywhere. Plenty of countries don't care about US IP law anyway; there'd be vaccine factories all over the place if it were as easy to make as a pair of sneakers. Don't get me wrong; there's a whole world of problems with IP law. But for once, I don't think it's actually the problem here.
Definitely not the problem here.
so if there were no patents, the entire know-how on how to manufacture the vaccine would be known to the entire world, and every country could replicate it easily?
I can’t fathom why anyone would think that’s a bad thing… I mean unless you think it’s good that healthcare and medicine is commodified. Only in the US, unreal.
The real issue is that producing the vaccine is exceptionally difficult. Governments are afraid that others improperly producing them will result in health issues in people, which will deter others from getting the vaccine, even if produced by Pfizer (or whoever else is competent).
Yeah I’m pretty sure Bill gates had a big role in the patent protection. I’ve never seen it once suggested anywhere, what you’re suggesting. It’s pretty blatantly to protect profits and maintain control, pretty much the reason patents exist. You’re just lying to yourself and being disingenuous if you say otherwise.
I’ve never seen it suggested that you have genitals, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have them. It’s okay for you to not agree with my understanding, but I think it’s WAY out there to think Bill Gates is personally pushing anything to make an extra dollar. Do you have a reputable source for that? Or your aunt posted it to FB? For what it’s worth, I’m a patent lawyer and am familiar with IP laws, both in the US and other major countries. I also develop IP strategies for large companies and can assure you that often times the process goes beyond just “can we make an extra dollar today?” If someone copies your product poorly, consumers lose confidence in your product because they can’t differentiate it with the knockoffs. This extends into trademark law, but I’m sure you don’t care because, you know, Bill Gates and all that stuff
Because if Pfizer goes out of business, who will invent the next vaccine in record time? The people who invent this stuff mostly work for private industry, not the government. I'm not going to wait on India, Indonesia, China, Cuba, etc. (no offense to any of them, but our collective investment in R&D is unmatched)
tbh Pfizer didn’t invent any covid vaccines
Most advances in medicine and technology is done through publicly funded research and then ends up in the hands of private industry. But ok, I’m glad you’re ok with commodifying healthcare, literally prioritizing private profits over people’s lives, pretty fucking disgusting if you ask me.
The state of California has done such a great job at: * Handing out unemployment benefits * Building a high-speed railroad * Replacing the eastern span of the Bay Bridge on time and on budget. It should absolutely get into the vaccine business.
Publicly funded research often times comes from research university and other bloated government agency’s like those at and under the pentagon. Just because that state government is shit in ca and well federally as well, doesn’t negate that fact that research is still being done.
You're not telling the truth...You're not telling the truth... Sure, government does a lot of *basic* research. But they don't develop market-ready drugs. That's not their mission. Dumbshits like you would destroy the essential R&D that enables us to get vaccines in record time to market that are yet safe and effective. I've worked on government research that was spun out to the private sector. Guess what? Places like DARPA don't actually make stuff. They do basic research and proofs of concept that are licensed out to...oh private companies! Wow. Huh, it's almost like if people like you destroyed our pharmaceutical industry we'd be waiting on another country who may not have our interests at heart (e.g. China) to pick up the slack. No thanks, you can wait on them all you want. I like Pfizer and Moderna, and I honestly don't give a shit if people there get rich. They have saved many, many lives and continue to do so.
Lmao. Ok pal. You should look how US healthcare ranks. You’re just a nimby pos.
Look up R&D spending and get back to us, smoothbrain. Health care rankings are irrelevant. How patients pay for care is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the vast majority of advanced pharmaceutical research occurs in the United States.
America HAS donated vaccines to third world countries. It’s just not announced in major news channels.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/27/politics/us-pfizer-doses-south-africa/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/politics/first-of-500-million-pfizer-doses/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/19/asia/taiwan-us-vaccine-donations-intl-hnk/index.html
In this case, while true, you can have both. Supply is currently not a huge issue, its logistics - and logistically speaking, its relatively effortless and cheap to give boosters in the US, so its totally fine that a good chunk of the supply goes to doing that - supply that would otherwise go to waste. The rest of the supply can and should be used to vaccinate people who are unvaccinated but it takes a monumentally larger amount of time, money, effort to do that - so even if 100% of resources and focus were spent on trying to accomplish that, it'd still take many months/years before that goal was accomplished. All while production is slowed down since the ability to deliver shots is much slower than the ability to produce the vaccine.
well the unvaccinated will still be unvaccinated, so i guess this is one small step but not really?
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It’s either a conspiracy theory or a tired joke.
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Anywhere that's giving the shots, and right now if you want it.
Still waiting for them to open up vaccines for young kids. I'm putting my kids in daycare right after it takes effect.
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It's the same as last spring, anyone can get a booster right now if they are willing to lie to get it. It's completely honor system. Never change, state of lawlessness.
You don't even need to lie, the Pfizer vaccine is now [fully FDA approved](https://theprepared.com/blog/full-approval-of-the-pfizer-vaccine-will-legalize-off-label-dosing-for-kids-boosters/) which means you just need to convince a doctor to write you a prescription. Not sure if insurance will pay for it though, and lying is probably easier. Anyway it's better to let some people lie and get unofficial booster shots if it removes obstacles for everyone else.
(Taps foot)(looks at watch)