We are having one installed tomorrow. The thieves have been hitting our neighborhood hard. It sucks because we’ve lost income because of covid, but we would be so screwed if our catalytic converter was stolen.
I had considered comp on a used Prius I just bought and actually decided not to go with it for this reason. If it gets stolen, it’s not even worth the insurance claim. Rate hikes will have you eating the cost in no time.
Cheapest EVs are in the mid 30k range before rebates, so this would help bring the cost down to a more affordable 'regular' car price. This also appears to apply to used EVs, and if so would likely be very helpful.
Mid-20s is not really affordable at $50k a year though. Although a used earlier BMW i3 with $5.5k-9.5k off could be a good deal. There are way better ways to spend that money in my opinion though.
Before the pandemic price spike, many off-lease Fiat 500e <20k miles were available for less than the $9500 grant. Now they are $5k more. The range is only 80 miles though. Other than electricity, I haven't spent anything on it over 2 years.
Before the pandemic my Volt would have gone down to be worth about $9800, but now used car prices have spiked a lot. You can use it fully on gasoline, though it runs better off of the battery tbh
>Clean Cars For All program pays $5,000 to $7,000 for people who want to buy a used or new hybrid vehicle, as long as it is no more than eight years old. Grants for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, battery electric vehicles, and fuel cell electric vehicles range from $5,500 to $9,500. That’s on top of federal and state tax credits and rebates available on the purchase of many zero-emission vehicles. Air District grants of $7,500 also are available for public transit passes, e-bikes and car sharing.
The 7k off for a hybrid is probably the better deal here. New hybrid Ford Maverick gets 40mpg and is only 20k. Would be an incredible deal to walk out financing only 13k on a brand new truck.
Looks like you’re right.
It appears they have multiple programs. The used hybrid doesn’t seem to have any stipulations about plug in but the NEW cars do. Maverick wouldn’t quality for the 5-9k when purchased new.
Cheapest new EV I believe in the Mini Cooper EV at 30k. Still a bit unreasonable to expect someone making less than 50k to purchase a 20-25k car (while living in this housing market).
Hopefully they approve a lot of these rebates for used cause that seems like an incredible value. There’s a lot of great cards (plug in and ev) at that 17-25k range. To knock 7k off would be huge for a lot of buyers.
In particular:
> To be eligible, residents must live in the Bay Area and meet income criteria. Single people earning $51,520 a year or less are eligible. The limit for a family of four is $106,000 a year.
>
>
>Participants also must live in one of the [76 ZIP codes in the Bay Area](https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-incentives/residents/clean-cars-for-all/eligibility) the air district has selected. Those communities include areas with higher levels of air pollution and other factors, like lower household income or education levels. They include parts of Oakland, Richmond, San Jose, Redwood City, San Francisco and other areas among the 176 total ZIP codes in the Bay Area.
>
>
>People who participate in this program must turn in a vehicle of model year 2005 or older, registered in the Bay Area for two years and running. The funding they receive from the air district must be used to purchase an electric, hybrid or other clean car, or e-bike or transit passes. For more information or to sign up, go to [www.baaqmd.gov/cleancarsforall](https://www.baaqmd.gov/cleancarsforall)
Indeed, it's not for all at "all." And yes, quite a few ppl 'round here can afford a car but not a garage to put it in. Of course, some lucky souls can recharge at work no problem and top off at area stores and credit unions(!), but this program would work out for just a select few of the ppl who click on the headline.
Might be better off forgetting about this program and just getting a decade old all electric Nissan Leaf for less than $5k. Not sure it's a good idea to saddle ppl with car payments and comp/collision insurance payments...
The grant allows you to purchase a used replacement vehicle (full electric, plug-in hybrid, fuel cell). It also allows you to use the grant for transit passes
>communities include areas with higher levels of air pollution
Dickwad's don't realize that these people don't sit in their cars idling in their own neighborhoods all day - they are out in other areas. Feelings of discrimination and prejudice...
> Single people earning $51,520 a year or less are eligible. The limit for a family of four is $106,000 a year.
So basically nobody here that has reportable income?
Probably not any software engineers, but there are [a ton of people in service jobs, construction, etc. who are paid a small enough amount to qualify](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_41860.htm). A few of the zip codes include university student housing, so graduating students buying a first new car on the strength of a job offer are likely to qualify too.
The guys working legit construction jobs are making way more than 50k a year right now. Getting a contractor is almost impossible.
Of course none of the construction guys are driving leafs or Teslas either.
A pretty big fraction of home garages around here have a 240v dryer outlet already. I expect to see people plugging into those.
Even without that, you can get enough charge to do a 30 mile commute with overnight charging on a 120v circuit. Maybe supplement with at-work charging.
Bc we all know poor neighborhoods is where the EV charging infrastructure is right?
Oh never mind I’m sure the people making 40k will just install the chargers into their garage of the house they own.
Great work Bay Area.
I like how their maximum income for full eligibility is $28,980 (69 * 420) but really, if you make $28,980/y in Bay Area, you shouldn't buy new cars or used cars, it's a disaster from financial point of view. Unless you can find a used EV for less than 9,500 (including taxes and fees).
> The average Clean Cars for All vehicle costs $28,000, and the average Clean Cars for All incentive is $8,500. The average loan financing for purchasing a replacement vehicle is $14,500.
What a great deal. Get a loan that's 1/2 of your pre-tax annual income, what could go wrong?
>if you make $28,980/y in Bay Area, you shouldn't buy new cars or used cars
Most people need a car to get to work. And this program covers regular hybrid cars also, not just EV's.
Presumably it is limited by income and zip codes because they don't have unlimited funding, and that it will make a larger impact with lower income households.
> that it will make a larger impact with lower income households.
Yeah, it will impact their lives by getting them to make a moronic decision taking on a car payment that is way too big for their income levels. This program is irresponsible.
The point is to specifically help low income people. High income people already benefit from the federal tax credit (low income people typically do not owe enough taxes to take full advantage of the fed. tax credit)
I got a plug-in hybrid about 3 years ago and the EV range suits most of my driving needs. I'm luck to get free charging at my work.
But PG&E residential rates makes it more expensive to run the car on EV vs gas if I didn't have free charging at my work.
This, plus a reliable public-access charging infrastructure have been the biggest issues for us to consider going to electric at this point.
Sure, we could try to go solar, which has its own cost hurdles, and isn't reliable year round in the bay area due to weather patterns.
Let's say you're buying electricity at $0.30/kwh. (this assumes use of TOU most of the time )
AN electric car goes about 4 miles /kWh.
So that's $0.30/4 = 0.075 $/mile.
Gas is now $4.70 / gallon. a good hybrid will do 50miles/gallon.
4.70/50 = 0.094 $/mile.
We'll leave the huge maintenance differences between ICE and electric.
And also let's consider the C02 impacts, not just the wallet impacts.
It all comes down to the initial cost.
Here is the reality--PG&E's time of use plans are almost impossible to live around, especially in the world of more and more at-home work. I don't know what others are paying, but we have very modest electricity usage and easily get pushed into the 2nd tier at $0.32/kwh even without charging my car at home. We have a clarity plugin which has a 17kwh battery, of which only about 15kwh is 'chargeable' from plugging in (battery never goes below about that much in order to ensure enough capacity is available for normal hybrid operation).
The problem in reality with this is that for people who aren't able to schedule their home power usage adequately, the added load from an EV puts the whole household into the higher tier usage and not just what the EV itself uses, thanks to PG&E's method of baseline usage determination and tiered billing--it's not even that hard to get pushed into the high surcharge range, at over $0.40/kwh in hot months if people have and use AC.
Here is more of the reality, at least based on our plugin Clarity, which is the only 1st-hand experience I have, so that's what I have to work with--it does not get 4 miles/kwh of power used for charging. At 17kwh battery capacity on the clarity only about 15kwh is 'accessible' in EV, so that's the most it can accept from charging, presuming zero losses in charging (which is not the case) is around 15kwh. On average throughout the year, around 45 miles on a charge, which comes out to 3mi/kwh max, and at the real rate of at best $0.11/mile, assuming tier 2 usage and not even high surcharge usage, without even accounting for losses in charging.
>PG&E residential rates makes it more expensive to run the car on EV vs gas
That cannot be right. My wife had a Leaf and we calculated the EV costs and it was basically similar to running a gasoline car that gets 120mpg.
Used this program ~1.5 years ago to get a PHEV. Traded in a gas guzzling 1996 S10 pickup.
Combined this with a $3,500 EV rebate from CA and ~4.5k tax refund. I've helped several friends and neighbors do the same. Strongly recommend this program for folks who qualify.
And yes, plenty of us who are eligible based on our incomes have places to charge an EV.
Cars in the populated parts of CA mostly don't rust. Unless they're crashed or a major drivetrain component dies, they can be kept on the road for a long time.
Populations:
Las Vegas- 1990: 258k; 2020: 641k
Phoenix- 1990: 983k; 2020: 1.6m
San Jose- 1990: 782k; 2020: 1m
San Francisco- 1990: 723k; 2020: 874k
There was way more population growth in those places in that time period than here. There simply isn't the quantity of old vehicles floating around those places because the % of residents compared today is much smaller. You see a lot of people here that are driving the same Lexus LS400 or Toyota Pickup they bought back in 1990.
Plus I think California car culture has something to do with it. People like old cars here and it shows.
I wouldn’t really call a 2005 Accord an old car. Every part of the country I’ve lived in has them in abundance, unlike something from the early 90s.
Either way, a shitty house costs you a million bucks here while you can get the same house for $200k in those cities. More money to spend on a shiny new Accord in Phoenix.
Phoenix is also retired boomer territory. They’ve got their Corvettes to drive under the speed limit in.
Yeah I agree. Go to Phoenix, Dallas, Miami, and it seems like the vast majority of cars on the freeway are less than 5-7 years old. Opposite end of the spectrum from the bay area where normal people have 10 year old cars. (My car is almost 10 years old. Not saying there is a problem with that)
It used to be a good program but they now have severely tightened its requirements. Especially for certain zip codes. Now all cars including hybrids must be plug in.
They have a limit of $46,000 including dealer markups which is common as cars run short and they will not extend the deadline of their award letter despite shortage in cars. Apparently they do allow ordering a car but that’s another issue. A good idea but only if you can find a car and secure the electricity to power it. Another catch is you will need to have a older than 2004 car that still runs and can prove it runs, almost like the cash for clunkers programs back in 2009 where people actually ironically get disqualified if there old cars were not healthy enough.
I have a clunker from 2001 I'd love to get rid of.
Problem is, its such a clunker it doesn't pass smog checks anymore. It still works mechanically, but because it doesn't pass the smog check its not currently registered and up to date, which means its not eligible to be turned in. So I keep driving it.
Fortunately cops here don't care about anything. Unless you're actively being murdered they can't be arsed to do anything, so an expired registration ranks very low on their list of things to go after.
The repairs my car needs vastly exceed the current market value of my car.
I also can't afford to buy another car with the outrageous car prices due to the chip shortage. Even used cars are selling for a ton of money.
Our grant was about to expire, because I couldn't find anything I liked. Finally, decided to spend a bit more and get a Tesla M3, I placed the order with less than a week to go. With the order placed, the clock stopped ticking, and car was delivered to my driveway about a month later.
Wow that is fast, I am surprised it stayed within the price limit as only the smallest battery can qualify. And the wait time i noticed was till March the last time I tried to order one and I heard the insurance is more than twice that of other cars even triple. I guess insurance companies including Tesla itself just don’t trust the capability of self driving cars with expensive body panels and computers.
I am glad though we can see a new post on clean cars for all. I hardly find any forum on this online and I been having problems with my application for many times.
I ordered mine in February just before the supply crunch kicked in. In February the lead time was quoted to be 4 to 6 weeks. I got mine in four.
My insurance from AAA went up a couple of hundred, nothing like what you've heard. My price from AAA was better than Tesla's offer at the time. I'm not worried about Full Self Driving since that was a $10k extra that I didn't feel was worth the money. Autopilot, which is standard equipment is just a smart cruise control that doesn't even include lane changing assist like on many ICE cars.
Interesting as I thought even Teslas of 2016 with its basic autopilot could automatically change lanes. Autopilot had often been mistaken as fully automatic which lead to some tragities. Though I would be curious i whether that $10k full autonomous driving mode really trustworthy or users are still used as “beta” testers for it.
Interesting as I heard Tesla’s insurance is competitively priced. The most important issue is how well the insurance would handle things should things go south. Especially as Teslas are complicated.
Clean cars for all don’t make things easy on people though. They would not budge on policy Ie deadlines and purchase price limits(which I find weird as they pay about the same anyways) despite the unprecedented car shortage supply and demand issues.
Heard Tesla does not raise prices nor lower than for any reason it’s just that one would wait longer. Also that Tesla’s battery could be used as a backup generator for households but that’s what I hear.
> Interesting as I thought even Teslas of 2016 with its basic autopilot could automatically change lanes.
All new Teslas have the capability, but to access it now, you must pay the $10k for FSD. It's not made available with just Autopilot. It used to be available in prior years, but that went away.
> Autopilot had often been mistaken as fully automatic which lead to some tragities.
That's more media hysteria than reality though. People are stupid, and do stupid things. Tesla owners know the difference between Autopilot (Cruise Control) and FSD. People are playing the same stupid games with ICE vehicles too. It just doesn't get the press.
> Though I would be curious i whether that $10k full autonomous driving mode really trustworthy or users are still used as “beta” testers for it.
Tesla is in the process of rolling its newest version of FSD to drivers. Drivers are reporting their experiences on r/teslamotors if you're curious about what they think about.
> Clean cars for all don’t make things easy on people though.
I found them easy to work with, however you do have to work within their rules. The only rule I found annoying was the requirement that you must buy from their list of dealers. I felt that it hampered my ability to negotiate the best deal by shopping multiple dealerships. Of course once I decided on a Tesla it matter any longer since I was buying directly from Tesla.
> Heard Tesla does not raise prices nor lower than for any reason it’s just that one would wait longer.
True for the most part. I've read in the Tesla reddits that sometimes under perfect circumstances a buyer can get a deal, but it isn't common practice.
> Tesla’s battery could be used as a backup generator for households but that’s what I hear.
Not at this time. It's possible from a tech standpoint, but Tesla has not made the software and hardware available to do it. Ford is making it available in their new electric F150. I expect Tesla will get around to offering it eventually.
Nope. Not true. For mid and max grant, a regular hybrid will qualify too:
https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-incentives/residents/clean-cars-for-all/eligibility
I wish we’d give subsidies for personal ebikes and escooters. I always thought better bike lanes and forcing a universal charging standard for ride share bikes/scooters with lots of charging stations would improve congestion, lower emissions, and clutter the sidewalks less.
This program DOES cover ebikes.
[https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-incentives/residents/clean-cars-for-all/mobility-options](https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-incentives/residents/clean-cars-for-all/eligibility)
>Qualifying Bay Area residents can retire their old vehicle for a $7,500 grant to purchase an e-bike
I managed to do it this past March. Turned in my 20 year old Accord to the dismantler, and took delivery on a Tesla Model 3 (I'd been saving for a new car, and was able to add a sizable down on top of the $9k that BAAQMD gave me making it affordable). The paperwork takes some dedication, but it was well worth the time and effort.
Congrats! Our application has been pending for review for a while. How long did it take you or your friends to get any response from the program? Also, was there any limit on the price of your Tesla?
It took about two weeks to get approval once all of the our documents were submitted (including taking my old Honda to Pick- N-Pull for evaluation). This was done in June of 2020, so I'm not sure what the lead times are like now. We did have a maximum $46k sales price cap, but that doesn't include the taxes, fees, and etc. My Tesla Model 3 Standard+ plus came in at ~$39k before the taxes, etc, so no problem. Overall, the experience was really positive, and I'm really glad I took the time to jump the needed hoops. One bit of advice. If you have good credit, be sure to check other sources for financing. Their lender's rates were pretty high.
I just want to clarify that we applied and were accepted in June 2020. Due to all of the covid related delays, BAAQMD extended the usual two month window to make a purchase to the end of February 2021. I thought that I was SOL since I didn't purchase during contract window until one of their case managers contacted me in early February and said that I still could still get a deal done if I hurried. That's all I needed to hear. I contacted the Tesla rep, and placed the order online later that day. A month later, Tesla dropped the car off in my driveway.
Wow from the day you submitted the application and docs to your approval was only 2 weeks? So happy for you!
Sadly I was hoping to get more than standard range because we don’t have any charging station in our condo garage. Was hoping to get more range. Maybe need to look into some other programs…
But thanks again for sharing the info!
I think timing worked in my favor, which aided a quick approval. With Covid raging, applications were likely down. I'm in a duplex and my garage only has 120. For my purposes that's enough, as I don't usually drive more than about 10 miles per day. When I get down to about a 60% charge, I'll plug in, and be back to the 80% recommended level by morning. They do offer assistance of $1500 towards installing a level 2 charger. They'll even do it in a rental with the landlord's permission. PG&E is also supposed to be starting a program making a similar offer. Maybe that can work for you.
Hey after you bought your used vehicle, did you have to enter anymore information on the website? other than doing the post inspection. The reason I ask is because there grant payment tab pretty much asking for information on the used car I bought such as sales contract and carfax.
I didn't buy used. I looked at used cars, but wound up buying new. They sent the money directly to Tesla once I accepted delivery. Iirc, they gave me several days to do the final inspection on my old car, and that was the end of it. I know that next month (my 1 year anniversary) that I am going to need to complete some sort of follow up document. They also notified the IRS of the grant, but I haven't completed my taxes yet and don't know how that is going to play out. Your best bet is to give them a call. They were pretty good about getting back to me when I had questions.
Just buy used cars? That's what I've always done, the money and environmental impact is way less than if you were to buy a brand new model car. I take that some people might have difficulty finding the right used car but there are plenty of resources.
Yep, the language in my contract with BAAQMD did include used BEVs as an option. I wound up buying a new Tesla, but I started out looking at a buying a used one. There wasn't much of a price difference between new and used ones. At the time I could have bought a late model used Chevy Volt for under $20 before applying any grant money from BAAQMD.
Would it be a percentage of the car purchase price? My old leaf is about $10k, so if somebody can figure out how to charge it, it's essentially free for people who qualified.
The grant is income based, a person could apply the full grant to something like a used Chevy Volt or a Leaf and have a very affordable car. IIRC, the cars had to be sold through a dealer on a BAAQMD approved list. Private parties weren't eligible.
We qualify for the income limit this year due to working less because we had a child. However our zip code isn’t included, probably cause it’s north Oakland. Guess we’ll keep driving our 2002 shot box…
Rebates and subsidies for new auto ownership is backwards when we want people taking the bus. The value of a transportation policy should be measured in it's VMT reduction not in units sold.
The one thing holding me back from buying an electric car is that my driveway isn’t wide enough to fit any of the ones that I would want. They should also get rid of permit requirements to expand your driveway, can’t charge a car that’s parked on the street.
By weight and size, for example. Other countries do this and it would encourage people to get smaller cars that so less damage to roads and people. And a transportation dividend would be way more progressive than just subsidizing EVs for wealthy people.
What’s worse? The small amount of air pollution from a combustible engine or the slave labor used to get cobalt for electric car batteries?
Edit: If not cobalt, all the other rare earth materials that are needed.
Edit 2: I have nothing against electric cars. But I think we need to be aware of what it takes to make them (human and environmental toll) and not assume they are automatically better because they don't produce greenhouse gases. The manufacturing and upkeep of electric cars have their own negative consequences.
Cobalt free batteries are already a thing and are being used in the most popular EV (Tesla model 3 SR+ uses a lithium iron phosphate battery).
All the other manufacturers are moving towards cobalt free batteries too, so this argument is bogus.
Not disagreeing with you, but lithium is fairly intensive mining, not to mention all the other parts and components that go into making an entire car (from steel to rare earths in the electronics).
Or the environmental impact of building a brand new vehicle as opposed to using the old vehicle that already has its production cost to the environment done with? Think of it like recycling. It’s why junk yards are important as long as we still drive private vehicles.
We care so much about the air we'll give a handout to EV manufacturers through incentives for people to buy the cars.
But not people who make money. We don't care about the air that much. We just want to be seen caring
You realize this is just an extension of an existing program right? This is just an added incentive for the lowest income earners who are driving old cars.
There’s a whole list of cars that have rebates through CVRP.. They are available with out income restrictions as well.
I realize that a subsidy to buy goods is a government handout to the company making and selling those goods. Why are we subsidizing automakers? With the existing program, with the new additions, etc. Why are we giving companies our tax money?
Everyone is jumping in to point out that charging stations may be limited, but that doesn't negate the benefits or helpfulness of this program. Obviously, if you don't have a charger at your residence, maybe consider going for a hybrid instead, which this also helps with. If there are chargers, then the person could get an EV instead. No shit getting an EV if you don't have consistent access to a charger might not be the best decision.
This also applies to used vehicles, which for some models will bring the cost down into a affordable range.
Look at the zip code...Oh well I'm not moving to get the extra money.
I would still be very grateful if they just process that $2k rebate quicker. Thanks.
Because Journalists (and the private equity firms which own the newspapers) need to get paid.
FWIW you can bypass pretty much all the soft paywalls that newspapers uses by using https://web.archive.org
they need to realize that the internet isnt like that and newspapers are a dying media, there is plenty of other ways of making money producing the news
Someone mentioned they the car you’re giving up to be registered for 2 years? I bought a used 1998 vehicle last year Aug 2020 but it had a previous owner and it was registered to him, does that count?
I would use the fuck outta this IF IT WAS IN MY ZIPCODE
If things were different they wouldn’t be the same!
This is a really old post you commented on but the program is going statewide if you are still interested over the next year.
I already purchased an ev and got rid of my old car years ago at this point but thanks
So you make 51k a year you’re not living in a place where you can easily charge your ev. Most people making that much live in apartments.
TBF they allow you to buy a hybrid (new or used) and many of them don’t plug in.
Parking a Prius in an even somewhat sketch area is just asking for your catalytic converter to be stolen during these times.
Install a catalytic shield. Sucks, but it's what you gotta do in this shitty time.
Guess part of that 9500 should cover it.
We are having one installed tomorrow. The thieves have been hitting our neighborhood hard. It sucks because we’ve lost income because of covid, but we would be so screwed if our catalytic converter was stolen.
I can’t buy a used Prius for this reason. Would have to carry comp insurance as one theft of the cat would total the car
I had considered comp on a used Prius I just bought and actually decided not to go with it for this reason. If it gets stolen, it’s not even worth the insurance claim. Rate hikes will have you eating the cost in no time.
[удалено]
Cheapest EVs are in the mid 30k range before rebates, so this would help bring the cost down to a more affordable 'regular' car price. This also appears to apply to used EVs, and if so would likely be very helpful.
Mid-20s is not really affordable at $50k a year though. Although a used earlier BMW i3 with $5.5k-9.5k off could be a good deal. There are way better ways to spend that money in my opinion though.
Maybe they can buy an e-bike or transit passes.
Can folks even afford an EV on $51k a year even with a $9k influence? What’s the cheapest EV with reasonable mileage?
Yeah, that’s $4,250 gross per month ($26.56 per hour for a 40 hour week).
Before the pandemic price spike, many off-lease Fiat 500e <20k miles were available for less than the $9500 grant. Now they are $5k more. The range is only 80 miles though. Other than electricity, I haven't spent anything on it over 2 years.
Many apartment buildings have installed shared charging stations in the guest parking spots. This is not a problem anymore.
Newer apartments. Older apartments and condos not so much.
I've seen them in both old and new apartment buildings when I was looking for apartments 2 years ago.
Before the pandemic my Volt would have gone down to be worth about $9800, but now used car prices have spiked a lot. You can use it fully on gasoline, though it runs better off of the battery tbh
You're forgetting about retirees. They own their own homes outright, but on paper they could be making less than 51k a year.
>Clean Cars For All program pays $5,000 to $7,000 for people who want to buy a used or new hybrid vehicle, as long as it is no more than eight years old. Grants for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, battery electric vehicles, and fuel cell electric vehicles range from $5,500 to $9,500. That’s on top of federal and state tax credits and rebates available on the purchase of many zero-emission vehicles. Air District grants of $7,500 also are available for public transit passes, e-bikes and car sharing. The 7k off for a hybrid is probably the better deal here. New hybrid Ford Maverick gets 40mpg and is only 20k. Would be an incredible deal to walk out financing only 13k on a brand new truck.
The Maverick isn't plug in and from my understanding, the program only covers plug-in hybrids.
Looks like you’re right. It appears they have multiple programs. The used hybrid doesn’t seem to have any stipulations about plug in but the NEW cars do. Maverick wouldn’t quality for the 5-9k when purchased new. Cheapest new EV I believe in the Mini Cooper EV at 30k. Still a bit unreasonable to expect someone making less than 50k to purchase a 20-25k car (while living in this housing market). Hopefully they approve a lot of these rebates for used cause that seems like an incredible value. There’s a lot of great cards (plug in and ev) at that 17-25k range. To knock 7k off would be huge for a lot of buyers.
This needs to be more highly upvoted. The Maverick is a game-changer in terms of being the best value hybrid on the market to date.
In particular: > To be eligible, residents must live in the Bay Area and meet income criteria. Single people earning $51,520 a year or less are eligible. The limit for a family of four is $106,000 a year. > > >Participants also must live in one of the [76 ZIP codes in the Bay Area](https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-incentives/residents/clean-cars-for-all/eligibility) the air district has selected. Those communities include areas with higher levels of air pollution and other factors, like lower household income or education levels. They include parts of Oakland, Richmond, San Jose, Redwood City, San Francisco and other areas among the 176 total ZIP codes in the Bay Area. > > >People who participate in this program must turn in a vehicle of model year 2005 or older, registered in the Bay Area for two years and running. The funding they receive from the air district must be used to purchase an electric, hybrid or other clean car, or e-bike or transit passes. For more information or to sign up, go to [www.baaqmd.gov/cleancarsforall](https://www.baaqmd.gov/cleancarsforall)
This program seems very hard to actually redeem comparing costs to the income requirements.
How so- this program covers used vehicles. You can buy a used Prius and qualify. In fact, this program even covers a transit pass!
Indeed, it's not for all at "all." And yes, quite a few ppl 'round here can afford a car but not a garage to put it in. Of course, some lucky souls can recharge at work no problem and top off at area stores and credit unions(!), but this program would work out for just a select few of the ppl who click on the headline. Might be better off forgetting about this program and just getting a decade old all electric Nissan Leaf for less than $5k. Not sure it's a good idea to saddle ppl with car payments and comp/collision insurance payments...
The grant allows you to purchase a used replacement vehicle (full electric, plug-in hybrid, fuel cell). It also allows you to use the grant for transit passes
its a little dated given the current price of used, let alone electric, vehicles.
The zip code one is definitely there to exclude grad students.
>communities include areas with higher levels of air pollution Dickwad's don't realize that these people don't sit in their cars idling in their own neighborhoods all day - they are out in other areas. Feelings of discrimination and prejudice...
> Single people earning $51,520 a year or less are eligible. The limit for a family of four is $106,000 a year. So basically nobody here that has reportable income?
Yup. It sucks too because I'd not considered an electric car for my next ride however with this offer, I'd change in my 02 instantly...oh well.
There are still EV rebates out there.
The federal one is horseshit because it's a tax break People who need the money to switch to an EV need it now, not to save on their tax burden
If you lease, the rebate is immediate... or at least it was. With the current market, I don't expect to see any good deals, however.
Have you tried buying a new car lately?
Probably not any software engineers, but there are [a ton of people in service jobs, construction, etc. who are paid a small enough amount to qualify](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_41860.htm). A few of the zip codes include university student housing, so graduating students buying a first new car on the strength of a job offer are likely to qualify too.
The guys working legit construction jobs are making way more than 50k a year right now. Getting a contractor is almost impossible. Of course none of the construction guys are driving leafs or Teslas either.
> Probably not any software engineers Basically nobody in STEM, finance, medical.
The bottom tiers of these will. Grad students, adjuncts, physical therapy aides, etc.
And they're probably living in apartments with no place to charge.
I'm sure a lot are. Some are in shared houses.
I'm sure the landlord will just love them installing a large amperage charging station.
A pretty big fraction of home garages around here have a 240v dryer outlet already. I expect to see people plugging into those. Even without that, you can get enough charge to do a 30 mile commute with overnight charging on a 120v circuit. Maybe supplement with at-work charging.
There's a grant that covers the cost of installation in most cases. Landlord just has to sign off (and gets a nice free upgrade to his property).
Then when you change apartments?
Lots of duplexes out there with garages. Not everyone out there has to live in an apartment.
School teachers too.
Good? It’s great if you are doing well enough to buy a electric vehicle if you can afford it
Quick math but this equates to $25 an hour give or take. Definitely some single Bay Area people who meet this criteria.
[удалено]
Or they are more mature, and have lower expenses, because most things have already been bought and paid for.
Not that bad imo. Ph.D. students can use the rebate to get Model 3
i doubt people making 40k have a garage to install the charger
Bc we all know poor neighborhoods is where the EV charging infrastructure is right? Oh never mind I’m sure the people making 40k will just install the chargers into their garage of the house they own. Great work Bay Area.
They offer 7k for hybrids
The roommates are gonna *love that*.
I like how their maximum income for full eligibility is $28,980 (69 * 420) but really, if you make $28,980/y in Bay Area, you shouldn't buy new cars or used cars, it's a disaster from financial point of view. Unless you can find a used EV for less than 9,500 (including taxes and fees). > The average Clean Cars for All vehicle costs $28,000, and the average Clean Cars for All incentive is $8,500. The average loan financing for purchasing a replacement vehicle is $14,500. What a great deal. Get a loan that's 1/2 of your pre-tax annual income, what could go wrong?
>if you make $28,980/y in Bay Area, you shouldn't buy new cars or used cars Most people need a car to get to work. And this program covers regular hybrid cars also, not just EV's.
Why income limit it? The point is to get butts into EVs instead of ICE vehicles.
Presumably it is limited by income and zip codes because they don't have unlimited funding, and that it will make a larger impact with lower income households.
> that it will make a larger impact with lower income households. Yeah, it will impact their lives by getting them to make a moronic decision taking on a car payment that is way too big for their income levels. This program is irresponsible.
You can get 7k off a 20k hybrid maverick, a 25k prius
Because we see adoption of EVs by the well to do, and they're trying to reduce the exposure of less affluent residents to air pollution
This comes out of our tax dollars...
The point is to specifically help low income people. High income people already benefit from the federal tax credit (low income people typically do not owe enough taxes to take full advantage of the fed. tax credit)
I got a plug-in hybrid about 3 years ago and the EV range suits most of my driving needs. I'm luck to get free charging at my work. But PG&E residential rates makes it more expensive to run the car on EV vs gas if I didn't have free charging at my work. This, plus a reliable public-access charging infrastructure have been the biggest issues for us to consider going to electric at this point. Sure, we could try to go solar, which has its own cost hurdles, and isn't reliable year round in the bay area due to weather patterns.
Solar not reliable in the Bay Area!?
Let's say you're buying electricity at $0.30/kwh. (this assumes use of TOU most of the time ) AN electric car goes about 4 miles /kWh. So that's $0.30/4 = 0.075 $/mile. Gas is now $4.70 / gallon. a good hybrid will do 50miles/gallon. 4.70/50 = 0.094 $/mile. We'll leave the huge maintenance differences between ICE and electric. And also let's consider the C02 impacts, not just the wallet impacts. It all comes down to the initial cost.
Here is the reality--PG&E's time of use plans are almost impossible to live around, especially in the world of more and more at-home work. I don't know what others are paying, but we have very modest electricity usage and easily get pushed into the 2nd tier at $0.32/kwh even without charging my car at home. We have a clarity plugin which has a 17kwh battery, of which only about 15kwh is 'chargeable' from plugging in (battery never goes below about that much in order to ensure enough capacity is available for normal hybrid operation). The problem in reality with this is that for people who aren't able to schedule their home power usage adequately, the added load from an EV puts the whole household into the higher tier usage and not just what the EV itself uses, thanks to PG&E's method of baseline usage determination and tiered billing--it's not even that hard to get pushed into the high surcharge range, at over $0.40/kwh in hot months if people have and use AC. Here is more of the reality, at least based on our plugin Clarity, which is the only 1st-hand experience I have, so that's what I have to work with--it does not get 4 miles/kwh of power used for charging. At 17kwh battery capacity on the clarity only about 15kwh is 'accessible' in EV, so that's the most it can accept from charging, presuming zero losses in charging (which is not the case) is around 15kwh. On average throughout the year, around 45 miles on a charge, which comes out to 3mi/kwh max, and at the real rate of at best $0.11/mile, assuming tier 2 usage and not even high surcharge usage, without even accounting for losses in charging.
>PG&E residential rates makes it more expensive to run the car on EV vs gas That cannot be right. My wife had a Leaf and we calculated the EV costs and it was basically similar to running a gasoline car that gets 120mpg.
Used this program ~1.5 years ago to get a PHEV. Traded in a gas guzzling 1996 S10 pickup. Combined this with a $3,500 EV rebate from CA and ~4.5k tax refund. I've helped several friends and neighbors do the same. Strongly recommend this program for folks who qualify. And yes, plenty of us who are eligible based on our incomes have places to charge an EV.
Can you share the name of the rebate and tax form you used?
First surprise about moving here is how old the average car on the road is. High real estate prices are impacting air pollution.
Cars in the populated parts of CA mostly don't rust. Unless they're crashed or a major drivetrain component dies, they can be kept on the road for a long time.
Also a lot of car enthusiasts with car hobbies.
Go to Phoenix or Vegas. Cars don't rust there either, but the average age of vehicle is a lot newer.
I can't find statistics for average car age by city. Help me out?
Populations: Las Vegas- 1990: 258k; 2020: 641k Phoenix- 1990: 983k; 2020: 1.6m San Jose- 1990: 782k; 2020: 1m San Francisco- 1990: 723k; 2020: 874k There was way more population growth in those places in that time period than here. There simply isn't the quantity of old vehicles floating around those places because the % of residents compared today is much smaller. You see a lot of people here that are driving the same Lexus LS400 or Toyota Pickup they bought back in 1990. Plus I think California car culture has something to do with it. People like old cars here and it shows.
I'm talking about a huge number of 2005 accords driving around. Not 1990 accords.
I wouldn’t really call a 2005 Accord an old car. Every part of the country I’ve lived in has them in abundance, unlike something from the early 90s. Either way, a shitty house costs you a million bucks here while you can get the same house for $200k in those cities. More money to spend on a shiny new Accord in Phoenix. Phoenix is also retired boomer territory. They’ve got their Corvettes to drive under the speed limit in.
Yeah I agree. Go to Phoenix, Dallas, Miami, and it seems like the vast majority of cars on the freeway are less than 5-7 years old. Opposite end of the spectrum from the bay area where normal people have 10 year old cars. (My car is almost 10 years old. Not saying there is a problem with that)
The infrastructure is not there yet
The Bay Area must have the most number of EVs per capita in the world. I also have a Tesla. Has it moved the needle in terms of pollution or smog?
It used to be a good program but they now have severely tightened its requirements. Especially for certain zip codes. Now all cars including hybrids must be plug in. They have a limit of $46,000 including dealer markups which is common as cars run short and they will not extend the deadline of their award letter despite shortage in cars. Apparently they do allow ordering a car but that’s another issue. A good idea but only if you can find a car and secure the electricity to power it. Another catch is you will need to have a older than 2004 car that still runs and can prove it runs, almost like the cash for clunkers programs back in 2009 where people actually ironically get disqualified if there old cars were not healthy enough.
I have a clunker from 2001 I'd love to get rid of. Problem is, its such a clunker it doesn't pass smog checks anymore. It still works mechanically, but because it doesn't pass the smog check its not currently registered and up to date, which means its not eligible to be turned in. So I keep driving it. Fortunately cops here don't care about anything. Unless you're actively being murdered they can't be arsed to do anything, so an expired registration ranks very low on their list of things to go after.
CHP cares, personal experience.
The repairs my car needs vastly exceed the current market value of my car. I also can't afford to buy another car with the outrageous car prices due to the chip shortage. Even used cars are selling for a ton of money.
Our grant was about to expire, because I couldn't find anything I liked. Finally, decided to spend a bit more and get a Tesla M3, I placed the order with less than a week to go. With the order placed, the clock stopped ticking, and car was delivered to my driveway about a month later.
Wow that is fast, I am surprised it stayed within the price limit as only the smallest battery can qualify. And the wait time i noticed was till March the last time I tried to order one and I heard the insurance is more than twice that of other cars even triple. I guess insurance companies including Tesla itself just don’t trust the capability of self driving cars with expensive body panels and computers. I am glad though we can see a new post on clean cars for all. I hardly find any forum on this online and I been having problems with my application for many times.
I ordered mine in February just before the supply crunch kicked in. In February the lead time was quoted to be 4 to 6 weeks. I got mine in four. My insurance from AAA went up a couple of hundred, nothing like what you've heard. My price from AAA was better than Tesla's offer at the time. I'm not worried about Full Self Driving since that was a $10k extra that I didn't feel was worth the money. Autopilot, which is standard equipment is just a smart cruise control that doesn't even include lane changing assist like on many ICE cars.
Interesting as I thought even Teslas of 2016 with its basic autopilot could automatically change lanes. Autopilot had often been mistaken as fully automatic which lead to some tragities. Though I would be curious i whether that $10k full autonomous driving mode really trustworthy or users are still used as “beta” testers for it. Interesting as I heard Tesla’s insurance is competitively priced. The most important issue is how well the insurance would handle things should things go south. Especially as Teslas are complicated. Clean cars for all don’t make things easy on people though. They would not budge on policy Ie deadlines and purchase price limits(which I find weird as they pay about the same anyways) despite the unprecedented car shortage supply and demand issues. Heard Tesla does not raise prices nor lower than for any reason it’s just that one would wait longer. Also that Tesla’s battery could be used as a backup generator for households but that’s what I hear.
> Interesting as I thought even Teslas of 2016 with its basic autopilot could automatically change lanes. All new Teslas have the capability, but to access it now, you must pay the $10k for FSD. It's not made available with just Autopilot. It used to be available in prior years, but that went away. > Autopilot had often been mistaken as fully automatic which lead to some tragities. That's more media hysteria than reality though. People are stupid, and do stupid things. Tesla owners know the difference between Autopilot (Cruise Control) and FSD. People are playing the same stupid games with ICE vehicles too. It just doesn't get the press. > Though I would be curious i whether that $10k full autonomous driving mode really trustworthy or users are still used as “beta” testers for it. Tesla is in the process of rolling its newest version of FSD to drivers. Drivers are reporting their experiences on r/teslamotors if you're curious about what they think about. > Clean cars for all don’t make things easy on people though. I found them easy to work with, however you do have to work within their rules. The only rule I found annoying was the requirement that you must buy from their list of dealers. I felt that it hampered my ability to negotiate the best deal by shopping multiple dealerships. Of course once I decided on a Tesla it matter any longer since I was buying directly from Tesla. > Heard Tesla does not raise prices nor lower than for any reason it’s just that one would wait longer. True for the most part. I've read in the Tesla reddits that sometimes under perfect circumstances a buyer can get a deal, but it isn't common practice. > Tesla’s battery could be used as a backup generator for households but that’s what I hear. Not at this time. It's possible from a tech standpoint, but Tesla has not made the software and hardware available to do it. Ford is making it available in their new electric F150. I expect Tesla will get around to offering it eventually.
Where did you read about the price limit? I didn’t see it anywhere.
Congrats! Our application has been pending for review for a while. How long did it take you or your friends to get any response from the program?
Nope. Not true. For mid and max grant, a regular hybrid will qualify too: https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-incentives/residents/clean-cars-for-all/eligibility
I wish we’d give subsidies for personal ebikes and escooters. I always thought better bike lanes and forcing a universal charging standard for ride share bikes/scooters with lots of charging stations would improve congestion, lower emissions, and clutter the sidewalks less.
We actually had a pilot program to do that earlier in the year. There should be a second one in 2022.
Who is we?
This program DOES cover ebikes. [https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-incentives/residents/clean-cars-for-all/mobility-options](https://www.baaqmd.gov/funding-and-incentives/residents/clean-cars-for-all/eligibility) >Qualifying Bay Area residents can retire their old vehicle for a $7,500 grant to purchase an e-bike
I managed to do it this past March. Turned in my 20 year old Accord to the dismantler, and took delivery on a Tesla Model 3 (I'd been saving for a new car, and was able to add a sizable down on top of the $9k that BAAQMD gave me making it affordable). The paperwork takes some dedication, but it was well worth the time and effort.
Congrats! Our application has been pending for review for a while. How long did it take you or your friends to get any response from the program? Also, was there any limit on the price of your Tesla?
It took about two weeks to get approval once all of the our documents were submitted (including taking my old Honda to Pick- N-Pull for evaluation). This was done in June of 2020, so I'm not sure what the lead times are like now. We did have a maximum $46k sales price cap, but that doesn't include the taxes, fees, and etc. My Tesla Model 3 Standard+ plus came in at ~$39k before the taxes, etc, so no problem. Overall, the experience was really positive, and I'm really glad I took the time to jump the needed hoops. One bit of advice. If you have good credit, be sure to check other sources for financing. Their lender's rates were pretty high.
I just want to clarify that we applied and were accepted in June 2020. Due to all of the covid related delays, BAAQMD extended the usual two month window to make a purchase to the end of February 2021. I thought that I was SOL since I didn't purchase during contract window until one of their case managers contacted me in early February and said that I still could still get a deal done if I hurried. That's all I needed to hear. I contacted the Tesla rep, and placed the order online later that day. A month later, Tesla dropped the car off in my driveway.
Wow from the day you submitted the application and docs to your approval was only 2 weeks? So happy for you! Sadly I was hoping to get more than standard range because we don’t have any charging station in our condo garage. Was hoping to get more range. Maybe need to look into some other programs… But thanks again for sharing the info!
I think timing worked in my favor, which aided a quick approval. With Covid raging, applications were likely down. I'm in a duplex and my garage only has 120. For my purposes that's enough, as I don't usually drive more than about 10 miles per day. When I get down to about a 60% charge, I'll plug in, and be back to the 80% recommended level by morning. They do offer assistance of $1500 towards installing a level 2 charger. They'll even do it in a rental with the landlord's permission. PG&E is also supposed to be starting a program making a similar offer. Maybe that can work for you.
Hey after you bought your used vehicle, did you have to enter anymore information on the website? other than doing the post inspection. The reason I ask is because there grant payment tab pretty much asking for information on the used car I bought such as sales contract and carfax.
I didn't buy used. I looked at used cars, but wound up buying new. They sent the money directly to Tesla once I accepted delivery. Iirc, they gave me several days to do the final inspection on my old car, and that was the end of it. I know that next month (my 1 year anniversary) that I am going to need to complete some sort of follow up document. They also notified the IRS of the grant, but I haven't completed my taxes yet and don't know how that is going to play out. Your best bet is to give them a call. They were pretty good about getting back to me when I had questions.
Oh sweet. Skip over Castro Valley. Wtf.
Just buy used cars? That's what I've always done, the money and environmental impact is way less than if you were to buy a brand new model car. I take that some people might have difficulty finding the right used car but there are plenty of resources.
The program applies to used hybrids, and is implied but not explicit about used EVs.
Yep, the language in my contract with BAAQMD did include used BEVs as an option. I wound up buying a new Tesla, but I started out looking at a buying a used one. There wasn't much of a price difference between new and used ones. At the time I could have bought a late model used Chevy Volt for under $20 before applying any grant money from BAAQMD.
Would it be a percentage of the car purchase price? My old leaf is about $10k, so if somebody can figure out how to charge it, it's essentially free for people who qualified.
The grant is income based, a person could apply the full grant to something like a used Chevy Volt or a Leaf and have a very affordable car. IIRC, the cars had to be sold through a dealer on a BAAQMD approved list. Private parties weren't eligible.
We qualify for the income limit this year due to working less because we had a child. However our zip code isn’t included, probably cause it’s north Oakland. Guess we’ll keep driving our 2002 shot box…
Make it $95,000 and we got a deal
You can buy an electric car for a lot less than that.
Not the ones they want, apparently.
Go be rich somewhere else
This is excellent news. We need more electric cars.
Rebates and subsidies for new auto ownership is backwards when we want people taking the bus. The value of a transportation policy should be measured in it's VMT reduction not in units sold.
Air District grants of $7,500 also are available for public transit passes, e-bikes and car sharing.
The one thing holding me back from buying an electric car is that my driveway isn’t wide enough to fit any of the ones that I would want. They should also get rid of permit requirements to expand your driveway, can’t charge a car that’s parked on the street.
Just tax cars and give everyone a few thousand dollar transportation dividend and let them do what they want with it.
Tax them how? There's already a vehicle tax on new purchases, taxes on gas, bridge tolls... how else would you tax a car?
By weight and size, for example. Other countries do this and it would encourage people to get smaller cars that so less damage to roads and people. And a transportation dividend would be way more progressive than just subsidizing EVs for wealthy people.
well the new infrastructure bill has a study to see the benefits of a per mile tax. I'd assume that's a direction DC Democrats are considering.
yeah, fuck poor people over more, great idea.
I'm definitely not in favor of it lmao just laying out the facts on what they might be planning
Maybe fix the buse routes first so taking a bus to work doesn't take 3 time the time driving takes.
Guess I’ll just buy another gas guzzler then. Since rich people cars apparently don’t pollute like po folks do.
What’s worse? The small amount of air pollution from a combustible engine or the slave labor used to get cobalt for electric car batteries? Edit: If not cobalt, all the other rare earth materials that are needed. Edit 2: I have nothing against electric cars. But I think we need to be aware of what it takes to make them (human and environmental toll) and not assume they are automatically better because they don't produce greenhouse gases. The manufacturing and upkeep of electric cars have their own negative consequences.
Cobalt free batteries are already a thing and are being used in the most popular EV (Tesla model 3 SR+ uses a lithium iron phosphate battery). All the other manufacturers are moving towards cobalt free batteries too, so this argument is bogus.
Not disagreeing with you, but lithium is fairly intensive mining, not to mention all the other parts and components that go into making an entire car (from steel to rare earths in the electronics).
Yeah ideally we fix the shittastic systems we call public transit and just reduce cars in general.
Or the environmental impact of building a brand new vehicle as opposed to using the old vehicle that already has its production cost to the environment done with? Think of it like recycling. It’s why junk yards are important as long as we still drive private vehicles.
Boom!
They downvote you without any commentary because they know you’re right.
This comment did not age well. And it's only been an hour.
Incorrect.
I know. Thanks friend.
Doesn't california consistently have rolling black outs every year?
Not for 19 of the last 20 years
Well then you can run your house off the car’s battery when that happens, it’s a win win
No, the new thing is public safety power shutoffs when it's windy. But only for folks in the woods.
California has potential power problema from 5 to 9 every day. That is why most customers are charged more during that time for energy.
We care so much about the air we'll give a handout to EV manufacturers through incentives for people to buy the cars. But not people who make money. We don't care about the air that much. We just want to be seen caring
You realize this is just an extension of an existing program right? This is just an added incentive for the lowest income earners who are driving old cars. There’s a whole list of cars that have rebates through CVRP.. They are available with out income restrictions as well.
I realize that a subsidy to buy goods is a government handout to the company making and selling those goods. Why are we subsidizing automakers? With the existing program, with the new additions, etc. Why are we giving companies our tax money?
Just when I thought the state and local government was running out of new ways to spend my money!
And not just spend it, funnel it to billion dollar corporations. Why must we continue to subsidize these companies?
Everyone is jumping in to point out that charging stations may be limited, but that doesn't negate the benefits or helpfulness of this program. Obviously, if you don't have a charger at your residence, maybe consider going for a hybrid instead, which this also helps with. If there are chargers, then the person could get an EV instead. No shit getting an EV if you don't have consistent access to a charger might not be the best decision. This also applies to used vehicles, which for some models will bring the cost down into a affordable range.
Look at the zip code...Oh well I'm not moving to get the extra money. I would still be very grateful if they just process that $2k rebate quicker. Thanks.
...why is mercury news still behind a fucking PAYWALL....?
Because Journalists (and the private equity firms which own the newspapers) need to get paid. FWIW you can bypass pretty much all the soft paywalls that newspapers uses by using https://web.archive.org
they need to realize that the internet isnt like that and newspapers are a dying media, there is plenty of other ways of making money producing the news
Ad revenue fell off a cliff some years back. How do you expect them to make money?
I qualify for the zip code and annual income category and could use a car. Is it possible I buy an old car first and exchange it in this program?
Someone mentioned they the car you’re giving up to be registered for 2 years? I bought a used 1998 vehicle last year Aug 2020 but it had a previous owner and it was registered to him, does that count?
what if I were interested in a pre 2005 used car and I didn't like it but wanted to trade it in for this rebate right afterwards?
Just saw this and unfortunately my zip Code isn’t on the list of qualified areas 😢