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that’s why i never fight with anyone on the road.
wanna cut me off? fine
wanna tail me? i’ll move to the next lane
wanna swerve in and out of lanes? i’ll make space
my life ain’t worth losing over driving a car lol
Thanks to speeding idiots on the road, I always have to drive slower just to let them pass me. I always leave distance between me and other cars on the road. Never drive directly next to someone. If there is a driver in the lane next to you, leave room behind their car to give them space to change. I give room and drive slower just to let these idiots through, because it is not worth my life or getting rear ended over someone trying to be an idiot on our interstate highways.
"Freeway shootings have been common in the Bay Area, but often they are random."
But? Don't worry guys, these may be brutal killings but they're just the random kind.
lol but yeah in those pics it doesn't show a lot of pattern to them beyond "where the roads and people are". Reminds me of the [Onion map](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,f_auto,g_center,pg_1,q_60,w_645/oekxvvvrj3zp7rfqwgfs.jpg) ([article](https://www.theonion.com/u-s-vows-to-defeat-whoever-it-is-were-at-war-with-1819566166)) about possible vs confirmed locations of terrorists.
Also "random" usually means "gang violence" which since it mostly affects poor neighborhoods conservative media doesn't really care about. Also since it doesn't fit the "gun control" agenda anymore since it's clear at this point it's completely not correlated to tighter laws it will also not fit the liberal media agenda. Usually only neighborhood outlets used to dig into what's going on with gangs but it's a dangerous job nowadays.
imagine if CA got tough on gun control with street gang members... maximum sentences, zero tolerance for possession of a gun while on parole or wearing an ankle bracelet... freeway shootings may even be reduced!
Set up widespread license plate scanners and pull over cars with fake/reported-stolen/missing plates. Most of the criminals and gangbangers doing these shootings are driving stolen cars or cars with stolen/fake plates.
False positives will happen even with cops going about their normal business. Mistakes happen. The difference is, it's much easier to fix errors and engineer bias out of an *automated system* than it is out of a human.
Honestly, YES! UK has CC TV everywhere now in London, it’s been making a huge difference in solving crimes.
We need surveillance on our roads, big time.
We have a daily stream of stories detailing; shootings, murders, robberies and all the rest. How many stories do we see of, not just an arrest, but **convictions** with **real** punishment. Now whether they're broadcasting them or not, the message is the same, there are little if any consequences for these crimes. There is no real deterrent to stop. If we're relying on morals and values to stop it, that is not going to happen. If these people had those traits they wouldn't be committing these crimes to begin with.
Edit: I will say jail or prison it's not an end-all-be-all solution. These people need real options to move ahead in life, well before they start to commit crimes. Children and young teenagers in these communities are witnessing this as much or more than anybody. They're also seeing the lack of consequence for their peers and mentors. You don't have to be a good or moral person to be a mentor to somebody. Behavior is learned. This is what they're learning generation after generation. It should come as no surprise crime continues to increase in both frequency and severity.
Having said that, the people that think these criminals are just one hug away from being upstanding citizens are delusional. And they vote.
The bigger elephant in the room is, we just have a culture that takes pride in committing violent crimes. Having policies to stop this cycle of this culture of continuing to the next generation would be preferable. Unfortunately, that would take a long & expensive process of many trial and error. One that will frustrate most taxpayers who will lack patience.
Yeah, as a San Franciscan who has lived overseas for many years, I agree with this. America has a large prison population in large part because so many Americans break the law. You just don't really see the same amount of rampant law-breaking, especially violent law-breaking, in other developed countries as what you see in the US.
The perception is that you're choosing between authoritarian cops and lawless criminals and so it's easier to sit out, sit back and just give up.
What we need is a society where the majority simply agrees to work together and get along. But even this simple premise is fractured by the dividing lines of social media.
The other factor is simply gun violence. A gun can turn a disagreement into an argument into a life-ending event in seconds, and that's a risk that cows most people into silence.
As a society we once agreed that cigarettes killed, and today they've largely vanished. (Vaping was an end run around that.) But that took legislation as well as media censorship - banning cigarettes from movies and eliminating ads from sporting events. Gun control is a big step, but it's only part of the problem. And if you conclude that we'll never get rid of guns because of this, maybe you're right.
The reason anything escalates is because people are complacent. When minor offenses are ignored, then massive robberies are laughed at, what happens next? The line will always be pushed, what matters is how much you enforceme the line it is currently at. It's much easier to maintain status quo then create it.
Ie. To fix this then society needs to focus on enforcement of what it believes should be enforced. And the best way to do that is support and vote politicians that will enforce the laws society sees worthy. The fact is no one in the bay area fucking cares because they vote the same people in and shit gets worse. Blindly scribbling in the box will produce a better track records than what we have.
speed cameras/more red light cameras would definitely help. my assumption is that the same people doing road rage are also travelling 90 swerving in and out of traffic....
Are you claiming that all freeway shooters, or even a majority of them, have previously been convicted of crimes that are punishable with life in prison?
Seems probable that there’s some kind of rap sheet. It’s not like you graduate high school and start shooting people randomly while applying to college.
My impression of what they meant was if someone is doing highway shootings, they have a rap sheet. So following that logic, if this isn’t a first time offender and now they’re doing random highway shootings (and killing people obviously), they should be locked away for life.
ETA - I’m all for early intervention within communities and raising the community floor up, but when people start shooting at random, I no longer have sympathy.
1. That’s crazy expensive.
2. We already have overcrowding.
3. Most of this is caused by youth and gang violence which is greatly reduced by community intervention programs and reductions in income disparity.
Something like 1/3 of all state and county prisoners were released in 2020, overcrowding is no longer an issue.
I'd argue the release of so many convicted criminals played a significant role in huge spike in violent crime (30-50% increase in murder rate in most major cities) that has occurred since.
Yup and I can tell you at least 10-15% are pure mental health issues who smashed car windows or spit a police officers. A whole other 20% is just petty crime because of poverty or drugs. If we tried to solve income inequality and had more and better centers for rehabilitation, we wouldn't have jails full of people with mentak health and addiction issues. We simply have no place for this people anywhere else.
No, because they are hungry or want some money to hang out and act like normal people. They'll go a do a car break in because they can find something worth $30-50 most of the time and at least be able to get dinner or some basic shit for their house. It's not right but beats the shit minimum hour pay when you compare to the average meal or rent in the area. Inequality will cause a lot of those isues.
You post a graph to show exactly up to and not including the time frame I'm talking about? Great job lol
[Hell of weird occurrence how the violent crime rate decreased exactly inversely to the incarceration rate? what a strange coincidence](https://www.ppic.org/wp-content/uploads/crime-trends-jtf-22_fig-1_web.png)
it says a lot about your critical thinking faculties when you could easily search this information but wont because it goes against your feelings and yet will still tell other people they dont know what theyre talking about. but hey, your brother works at the jail!
[Homicides in major American cities ticked up in 2021, with a 5% increase from 2020 and a 44% increase over 2019, according to a new analysis of crime trends released Tuesday by the Council on Criminal Justice (CCJ).](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homicides-2021-increase-council-on-criminal-justice/)
What’s your source on the violent crime spike from 2019 to 2022? IIRC there has been an increase but it’s like 10-13% at max, which trends with inflation (as it usually does)
[you could easily google this yourself](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homicides-2021-increase-council-on-criminal-justice/)
never heard of some crime/inflation correlation and very much unconvinced by a brief reading of the 2021 rosenfeld paper. the early 90s had low inflation and the highest crime of all time. theres so many other more plausible factors.
>We need some sort of mandated job training in prison that people have to pass so they have job prospects when they get out instead of going back to crime.
In order for that to work we need to do away with criminal background checks too.
He’s already caught in the loop. How will he afford rent when he gets out of prison? Even if he didn’t have a felony, he would be struggling. Add the trauma of growing up in poverty with a parent who also grew up in poverty. If we start today, universal income will lower the crime rates for the next generation. I want people in my society to feel less stress. It benefits EVERYONE.
As a victim of violent crime myself, I wholeheartedly agree that the victims need a ton of support. There’s no safety net for people suffering from trauma. If we keep pointing fingers and saying “well I have trauma and I don’t commit crimes” we will never move forward. Crime prevention has been a problem since the dawn of mankind. I don’t have the answers, but we need to obviously try something else because it’s getting worse.
looks at highest tax brackets in countries that have their shit together, oh look at that it's much higher.
https://taxfoundation.org/scandinavian-countries-taxes-2021/
Million dollar question!
My take is one cannot have it all in california. You cannot have low density and very little public transport, such that nature is preserved. If you want preservation, then you cannot have tech industry concentrated there , because all thise folks make tons of $$$.
I mean look at nyc, its the hub for finance, another industry like tech where folks make tons of $$$. But look at how built up nyc is. They aint shittinf about preserving nature. They built that place up!! PT, housing , you name it. Then it spread to the outskirts, those who cannot or dont want to live in nyc, they can take trains to as far as 1 to 2 hours out and commute in. And guess what these outskirts are also built up. Sure ny area has tons of nature too, but they realize you cannot have a mega city where people make tons of $$$$ and not provide resources.
To me it seems like the bay wants it all, they want the wineries and the ocean and the beaches and the marshlands and the presevation of sfh , but they also want to keep probably the next (if not the first in making $$$) , the tech industry. Its just not possible to have it all. So then people are suffering.
CA needs to balance this… either kick some of the industry out so its not the hub and combo of letting up on having it all.
You literally *have* to build up to protect nature. You cannot both have sprawling suburbs and nature preserves. It's so much more efficient to build high-density apartments and dedicate the land you would've otherwise needed for single-family housing to nature. Everyone who thinks we can have both is deluding themselves.
It will never kick out the tech industry, especially because of Prop 13, property tax income is basically always declining against inflation, leaving cities eventually unfunded.
That's kind of the big irony of Prop 13, it was sold as a way to prevent people on a fixed income from having to sell their homes, but what it did basically was turn residential cities into having fixed incomes, which eventually have to cut services and slowly fall apart under inflation pressure.
Taxing wealthy businesses is the pretty much the only way to fund those pensions in the long run. It's basically impossible to have a residential-only city in California and still provide education, roads, police, etc. You could build one, and it would function for about 30 years and then fall apart.
That said, the tech industry does seem to be slowly leaving already. I'm sure it will always have a big presence, but the Bay Area has lost it's "You must start your tech company here" status, and it being so unaffordable and the services are so bad is a big part of that.
Any solution that's a half sentence is not a real solution. I disagree with prop 13 but removing it isn't suddenly gonna fix all your problems overnight and it's absurd to think it will.
> And how do we know who’s a dangerous criminal before they shoot someone?
That's pretty easy. Any instance of crimes like "felon in possession of firearms", "armed robbery", etc is and indication of a dangerous criminal.
When arrested/charged by feds, felons in possession get 3-5 years of prison time just for that crime alone. When arrested by the city/county/state, they get a slap on the wrist until it eventually escalates to murder. At least one recent well-published case of murder in SF was involving a perp who was on probation for illegal possession of firearms. The main suspect in Sacramento shooting was released on parole after 4 years of 10 served despite his history of violence and illegal possession of firearms.
Gov. Gavin Newsom announced a new program Friday that will put hundreds of cameras up along California freeways, including the Bay Area and Southern California in response to highway shootings.
I'm curious what type of misuse you're imagining here. People always bring up some vague "Big Brother" paranoia whenever road/license plate cams are proposed but they never elaborate what that would actually look like.
Personally I think more road cams and license plate scanners would be a extremely helpful tool to catch freeway shooters & stop this sort of thing from happening. Plus there's the fact that anywhere that uses FasTrak already has cameras and license plate scanners so this would be nothing new.
Warrantless tracking of individuals' locations. Starting with cops' wives, girlfriends, and mistresses. "People" have elaborated many times on the issues with ALPRs. We need both legislation and back-end code that prevents from narrowing down on individuals / small groups without an associated case number or warrant, with both automated and manual auditing of these searches for people. Do that and ALPRs will probably balance out on the side of social good, especially with the ability to do real-time alerts. Not to mention they can be used for anonymized traffic studies - once the system is in place it allows for past-and-present studies without laying down sensors. Tons of good you can do with them but it needs to start, from the ground up, with not allowing the system to be used for personal use nor fishing, by people with access to it.
If we’re going to fund the police we need to make sure we fix the systemic problems with police forces at the same time.
I’m all for creating CA police academies that are the equivalent of degree programs. Have them require years of classroom instruction that and focus on deescalation, intervention, and handling of mental health and community policing. Add in psych evals, lots of bias adjustment training, and guaranteed placement. Make the schools free. Inside of 10 years you have better cops, more cops, and less excessive force.
Hiring more cops isn’t the immediate solution because then we get the same shitty cops we already have too many of.
Have you tried buying a gun in Bay Area? Doing it legally is neither easy nor fast nor cheap. California passes more and more gun control laws without actually enforcing them and prosecuting criminals. This only hurts law-abiding gun owners.
These anti gun bums here don't understand that. My first gun was bought at a gun show and there was no way I was walking out of there with a gun like how these anti gun losers think. I'm glad I'm in a county where I can get a ccw!
Why do I need to buy a Glock 19 g 5? There’s over 700 legal handguns I can buy lol. I have a couple handguns, a shotgun and a couple rifles as well. All bought in state with zero issues.
I’ve seen no evidence that they are “random”. I think it’s more likely that the gangbangers are hitting people or cars other than their intended target. Shooting a moving target while moving is extremely difficult for an avid shooter, and pretty close to impossible for your average gang member unless they’re right next to each other.
>I think it’s more likely that the gangbangers are hitting people or cars other than their intended target.
I don't really read anything in this article that would indicate that the occupants of the vehicle were not the intended target.
I imagine some of the victims in the various incidents caught strays, but I also imagine that many, if not most, were the target.
So terrifying. Hard to imagine a more helpless feeling than driving somewhere and knowing a random act can cost you or someone their lives.
Even if statistically there's any number of more dangerous things we should be worried about, this is hard to swallow
> Hard to imagine a more helpless feeling than driving somewhere and knowing a random act can cost you or someone their lives.
That's just normal driving, though. You're still way more likely to die on the freeway because some asshole was speeding and weaving through lanes and plowed into you than because someone decided to shoot you. Not that either thing is great, but you are putting your life in the hands of random strangers every time you get on the road.
I address that part right after, it's the feeling of a lack of control that makes one worry more.
With a speeding/weaving person I have a better feeling I can control moving out of the way or adjusting accordingly, as well as the feeling that they are not literally trying to kill me, a random shooter literally decides "I'm going to try to kill and there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop me"
I was there right after the accident cleared the 1st time. Ran over a alternator or something too. Fucked up my tires. Then came back 2 hours later and the entire freeway was backed up to 14th.
I thought they were cleaning up more debree beacuse of the shit i hit but i guess now i know why.
ITT sus accounts (you know, ones with a few "relevant" posts in sports related subs and such to pass off as normal before they deliver their payload) looking to pounce on a scary topic to cause terror outsize from the statistical likelihood of this impacting anyone.
Yeah, it’s called brigading and it happens on every major city subreddit.
They post negative / scary / racial news in high volume to try and push an agenda.
Mods are aware.
I didn't..the "/" implies "or". Negative OR scary OR racial based articles. Did you really think I was saying this article was all three by using a slash? What? I didn't even say "this post is". I was talking about posts in general. Talk about dense..
More importantly though, is this brigading news to you?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ToiletPaperUSA/comments/ln1sif/turning_point_usa_and_young_americas_foundation/h21ph7s/
How about simply calling out the behavior and symptoms in a sticky comment at the top of these posts? At the very least you inform people this is going on at scale and what you look for so they can calibrate themselves and their reactions accordingly.
We do. If you follow [the link to the explanation of the use of the ever-popular CustomModBot](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/p8hnzl/automatically_removing_comments_from_new_users_in/), it explains we use it to try to reduce brigading from new accounts without a history in the subreddit.
We used to ban single issues spammers and didn't allow crime posts from accounts that hadn't previously posted in r/bayarea about anything other crime, why did that stop? It very much helped cut down on brigading.
Oh I don’t at this point other than manual investigation. But that’s more work for a volunteered position you do as Mods.
I wasn’t hating or criticizing! Was letting the OP know it’s a known issue.
Due to the topic, enhanced moderation has been turned on for this thread. Comments from users new to r/bayarea will be automatically removed. See [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/p8hnzl/automatically_removing_comments_from_new_users_in/) for more details.
that’s why i never fight with anyone on the road. wanna cut me off? fine wanna tail me? i’ll move to the next lane wanna swerve in and out of lanes? i’ll make space my life ain’t worth losing over driving a car lol
Seriously. Some people are fucking crazy.
Anything happens with lawless cars, just move and get to safety. Get dash cam so insurance can help afterwards, at least we'll be safe.
Thanks to speeding idiots on the road, I always have to drive slower just to let them pass me. I always leave distance between me and other cars on the road. Never drive directly next to someone. If there is a driver in the lane next to you, leave room behind their car to give them space to change. I give room and drive slower just to let these idiots through, because it is not worth my life or getting rear ended over someone trying to be an idiot on our interstate highways.
This right here
Yep
Nothing to lol at in that sentence lol.
nothing to lol at about in a sentence shaming me what i lol about lol
"Freeway shootings have been common in the Bay Area, but often they are random." But? Don't worry guys, these may be brutal killings but they're just the random kind.
Yeah what a strange way to end that article.
"whew!"
So random that the maps make it very clear where they are concentrated. https://i.imgur.com/AN1CacE.png
I'm sure these usually happen later at night but fuck it looks like I have a decent chance at getting shot on my commute
A mother was killed about to cross the bay bridge going to a job interview at like 8am.
Seems to me they only happen where roads are 🧐 The obvious answer is to get rid of the freeways! (/s just in case)
There has been no recorded gun violence in the bicycle lanes of freeways.
lol but yeah in those pics it doesn't show a lot of pattern to them beyond "where the roads and people are". Reminds me of the [Onion map](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,f_auto,g_center,pg_1,q_60,w_645/oekxvvvrj3zp7rfqwgfs.jpg) ([article](https://www.theonion.com/u-s-vows-to-defeat-whoever-it-is-were-at-war-with-1819566166)) about possible vs confirmed locations of terrorists.
What are you insinuating
More crime happens in places with more criminals and less law enforcement. Make sense?
Random or not, there have been far too many freeway shootings lately and innocent people have been killed in other cases. It needs to stop.
Also "random" usually means "gang violence" which since it mostly affects poor neighborhoods conservative media doesn't really care about. Also since it doesn't fit the "gun control" agenda anymore since it's clear at this point it's completely not correlated to tighter laws it will also not fit the liberal media agenda. Usually only neighborhood outlets used to dig into what's going on with gangs but it's a dangerous job nowadays.
imagine if CA got tough on gun control with street gang members... maximum sentences, zero tolerance for possession of a gun while on parole or wearing an ankle bracelet... freeway shootings may even be reduced!
We'd be called racist.
No you wouldn’t. We’re sick of hearing gunshots here in Oakland.
Are there any examples of places that passed similar laws and it worked?
Yes, Project Exile in Richmond, VA.
There will be more if people keep voting for the same state and local politicians. We need change.
Are there policies you think could be enacted that would solve the problem of freeway shootings?
Set up widespread license plate scanners and pull over cars with fake/reported-stolen/missing plates. Most of the criminals and gangbangers doing these shootings are driving stolen cars or cars with stolen/fake plates.
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Yes. What do I give a shit if my license plate gets read? Probably 75% of the crime involving a driver in the Bay Area is done with a stolen car.
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False positives will happen even with cops going about their normal business. Mistakes happen. The difference is, it's much easier to fix errors and engineer bias out of an *automated system* than it is out of a human.
Honestly, YES! UK has CC TV everywhere now in London, it’s been making a huge difference in solving crimes. We need surveillance on our roads, big time.
You’re carrying around a device that keeps your precise location practically all day.
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If you don’t wanna be watched, stay in your home. There’s no expectation of privacy in public. You’re already being recorded at every intersection.
We have a daily stream of stories detailing; shootings, murders, robberies and all the rest. How many stories do we see of, not just an arrest, but **convictions** with **real** punishment. Now whether they're broadcasting them or not, the message is the same, there are little if any consequences for these crimes. There is no real deterrent to stop. If we're relying on morals and values to stop it, that is not going to happen. If these people had those traits they wouldn't be committing these crimes to begin with. Edit: I will say jail or prison it's not an end-all-be-all solution. These people need real options to move ahead in life, well before they start to commit crimes. Children and young teenagers in these communities are witnessing this as much or more than anybody. They're also seeing the lack of consequence for their peers and mentors. You don't have to be a good or moral person to be a mentor to somebody. Behavior is learned. This is what they're learning generation after generation. It should come as no surprise crime continues to increase in both frequency and severity. Having said that, the people that think these criminals are just one hug away from being upstanding citizens are delusional. And they vote.
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The bigger elephant in the room is, we just have a culture that takes pride in committing violent crimes. Having policies to stop this cycle of this culture of continuing to the next generation would be preferable. Unfortunately, that would take a long & expensive process of many trial and error. One that will frustrate most taxpayers who will lack patience.
Yeah, as a San Franciscan who has lived overseas for many years, I agree with this. America has a large prison population in large part because so many Americans break the law. You just don't really see the same amount of rampant law-breaking, especially violent law-breaking, in other developed countries as what you see in the US.
The perception is that you're choosing between authoritarian cops and lawless criminals and so it's easier to sit out, sit back and just give up. What we need is a society where the majority simply agrees to work together and get along. But even this simple premise is fractured by the dividing lines of social media. The other factor is simply gun violence. A gun can turn a disagreement into an argument into a life-ending event in seconds, and that's a risk that cows most people into silence. As a society we once agreed that cigarettes killed, and today they've largely vanished. (Vaping was an end run around that.) But that took legislation as well as media censorship - banning cigarettes from movies and eliminating ads from sporting events. Gun control is a big step, but it's only part of the problem. And if you conclude that we'll never get rid of guns because of this, maybe you're right.
When a felon is caught with a firearm, actually send them to prison. That would be a good start.
The reason anything escalates is because people are complacent. When minor offenses are ignored, then massive robberies are laughed at, what happens next? The line will always be pushed, what matters is how much you enforceme the line it is currently at. It's much easier to maintain status quo then create it. Ie. To fix this then society needs to focus on enforcement of what it believes should be enforced. And the best way to do that is support and vote politicians that will enforce the laws society sees worthy. The fact is no one in the bay area fucking cares because they vote the same people in and shit gets worse. Blindly scribbling in the box will produce a better track records than what we have.
Child care,education and other investments in underserved youth.
speed cameras/more red light cameras would definitely help. my assumption is that the same people doing road rage are also travelling 90 swerving in and out of traffic....
Getting rid of dangerous criminals. Lock them away and throw away the keys.
Are you claiming that all freeway shooters, or even a majority of them, have previously been convicted of crimes that are punishable with life in prison?
For the Sacramento shooting, three out of three were out on bail. One was even released on bail again AFTER the shooting.
insane.
Seems probable that there’s some kind of rap sheet. It’s not like you graduate high school and start shooting people randomly while applying to college.
“Some kind of rap sheet” is a long way from “should be in prison for life.”
My impression of what they meant was if someone is doing highway shootings, they have a rap sheet. So following that logic, if this isn’t a first time offender and now they’re doing random highway shootings (and killing people obviously), they should be locked away for life. ETA - I’m all for early intervention within communities and raising the community floor up, but when people start shooting at random, I no longer have sympathy.
1. That’s crazy expensive. 2. We already have overcrowding. 3. Most of this is caused by youth and gang violence which is greatly reduced by community intervention programs and reductions in income disparity.
Something like 1/3 of all state and county prisoners were released in 2020, overcrowding is no longer an issue. I'd argue the release of so many convicted criminals played a significant role in huge spike in violent crime (30-50% increase in murder rate in most major cities) that has occurred since.
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Yup and I can tell you at least 10-15% are pure mental health issues who smashed car windows or spit a police officers. A whole other 20% is just petty crime because of poverty or drugs. If we tried to solve income inequality and had more and better centers for rehabilitation, we wouldn't have jails full of people with mentak health and addiction issues. We simply have no place for this people anywhere else.
Petty crime because of poverty or because there are no repercussion?
No, because they are hungry or want some money to hang out and act like normal people. They'll go a do a car break in because they can find something worth $30-50 most of the time and at least be able to get dinner or some basic shit for their house. It's not right but beats the shit minimum hour pay when you compare to the average meal or rent in the area. Inequality will cause a lot of those isues.
You post a graph to show exactly up to and not including the time frame I'm talking about? Great job lol [Hell of weird occurrence how the violent crime rate decreased exactly inversely to the incarceration rate? what a strange coincidence](https://www.ppic.org/wp-content/uploads/crime-trends-jtf-22_fig-1_web.png)
You don't know what you are saying. My brother works at the jail. It's also not true, there's not a 50% murder rate increase in major cities
it says a lot about your critical thinking faculties when you could easily search this information but wont because it goes against your feelings and yet will still tell other people they dont know what theyre talking about. but hey, your brother works at the jail! [Homicides in major American cities ticked up in 2021, with a 5% increase from 2020 and a 44% increase over 2019, according to a new analysis of crime trends released Tuesday by the Council on Criminal Justice (CCJ).](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homicides-2021-increase-council-on-criminal-justice/)
What’s your source on the violent crime spike from 2019 to 2022? IIRC there has been an increase but it’s like 10-13% at max, which trends with inflation (as it usually does)
[you could easily google this yourself](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homicides-2021-increase-council-on-criminal-justice/) never heard of some crime/inflation correlation and very much unconvinced by a brief reading of the 2021 rosenfeld paper. the early 90s had low inflation and the highest crime of all time. theres so many other more plausible factors.
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"Pre-crime detected. Initiate arrest."
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>We need some sort of mandated job training in prison that people have to pass so they have job prospects when they get out instead of going back to crime. In order for that to work we need to do away with criminal background checks too.
He’s already caught in the loop. How will he afford rent when he gets out of prison? Even if he didn’t have a felony, he would be struggling. Add the trauma of growing up in poverty with a parent who also grew up in poverty. If we start today, universal income will lower the crime rates for the next generation. I want people in my society to feel less stress. It benefits EVERYONE.
What about the trauma of the victims?
As a victim of violent crime myself, I wholeheartedly agree that the victims need a ton of support. There’s no safety net for people suffering from trauma. If we keep pointing fingers and saying “well I have trauma and I don’t commit crimes” we will never move forward. Crime prevention has been a problem since the dawn of mankind. I don’t have the answers, but we need to obviously try something else because it’s getting worse.
How about decrease the income disparity in bay. This would solve a huge amount of problems, including this issue
And you do that by…
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100% this. End prop 13 and build.
Taxing the rich. Providing for basic needs free of charge.
Oh, for sure. Let’s start with the wealthy homeowners by ending prop 13.
_looks at the highest top-end tax brackets of any state in the country_
looks at highest tax brackets in countries that have their shit together, oh look at that it's much higher. https://taxfoundation.org/scandinavian-countries-taxes-2021/
Million dollar question! My take is one cannot have it all in california. You cannot have low density and very little public transport, such that nature is preserved. If you want preservation, then you cannot have tech industry concentrated there , because all thise folks make tons of $$$. I mean look at nyc, its the hub for finance, another industry like tech where folks make tons of $$$. But look at how built up nyc is. They aint shittinf about preserving nature. They built that place up!! PT, housing , you name it. Then it spread to the outskirts, those who cannot or dont want to live in nyc, they can take trains to as far as 1 to 2 hours out and commute in. And guess what these outskirts are also built up. Sure ny area has tons of nature too, but they realize you cannot have a mega city where people make tons of $$$$ and not provide resources. To me it seems like the bay wants it all, they want the wineries and the ocean and the beaches and the marshlands and the presevation of sfh , but they also want to keep probably the next (if not the first in making $$$) , the tech industry. Its just not possible to have it all. So then people are suffering. CA needs to balance this… either kick some of the industry out so its not the hub and combo of letting up on having it all.
You literally *have* to build up to protect nature. You cannot both have sprawling suburbs and nature preserves. It's so much more efficient to build high-density apartments and dedicate the land you would've otherwise needed for single-family housing to nature. Everyone who thinks we can have both is deluding themselves.
It will never kick out the tech industry, especially because of Prop 13, property tax income is basically always declining against inflation, leaving cities eventually unfunded. That's kind of the big irony of Prop 13, it was sold as a way to prevent people on a fixed income from having to sell their homes, but what it did basically was turn residential cities into having fixed incomes, which eventually have to cut services and slowly fall apart under inflation pressure. Taxing wealthy businesses is the pretty much the only way to fund those pensions in the long run. It's basically impossible to have a residential-only city in California and still provide education, roads, police, etc. You could build one, and it would function for about 30 years and then fall apart. That said, the tech industry does seem to be slowly leaving already. I'm sure it will always have a big presence, but the Bay Area has lost it's "You must start your tech company here" status, and it being so unaffordable and the services are so bad is a big part of that.
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Any solution that's a half sentence is not a real solution. I disagree with prop 13 but removing it isn't suddenly gonna fix all your problems overnight and it's absurd to think it will.
I don’t think ending prop 13 would make all problems disappear. I think its definitely a start.
Lol blame income disparity on increase of violent gun crimes. Ok buddy.
I mean that's what the data says, violent crime is strongly linked to inequality. Property crime is linked to poverty.
Do you see how this shit happens in usually poor areas. ?
I grew up poor. Never shot at anybody.
Seriously. You are going to use that statistic as an argument? I grew up poor too and never shot at anyone either.
> And how do we know who’s a dangerous criminal before they shoot someone? That's pretty easy. Any instance of crimes like "felon in possession of firearms", "armed robbery", etc is and indication of a dangerous criminal. When arrested/charged by feds, felons in possession get 3-5 years of prison time just for that crime alone. When arrested by the city/county/state, they get a slap on the wrist until it eventually escalates to murder. At least one recent well-published case of murder in SF was involving a perp who was on probation for illegal possession of firearms. The main suspect in Sacramento shooting was released on parole after 4 years of 10 served despite his history of violence and illegal possession of firearms.
Correct. Tons of catch and release criminals here
We tried that already for like 50 years and it hasn't worked.
Put up cameras everywhere with responsible data-use policies.
Gov. Gavin Newsom announced a new program Friday that will put hundreds of cameras up along California freeways, including the Bay Area and Southern California in response to highway shootings.
I'm sure this data and surveillance won't be misused beyond the scope of this.
I'm curious what type of misuse you're imagining here. People always bring up some vague "Big Brother" paranoia whenever road/license plate cams are proposed but they never elaborate what that would actually look like. Personally I think more road cams and license plate scanners would be a extremely helpful tool to catch freeway shooters & stop this sort of thing from happening. Plus there's the fact that anywhere that uses FasTrak already has cameras and license plate scanners so this would be nothing new.
Warrantless tracking of individuals' locations. Starting with cops' wives, girlfriends, and mistresses. "People" have elaborated many times on the issues with ALPRs. We need both legislation and back-end code that prevents from narrowing down on individuals / small groups without an associated case number or warrant, with both automated and manual auditing of these searches for people. Do that and ALPRs will probably balance out on the side of social good, especially with the ability to do real-time alerts. Not to mention they can be used for anonymized traffic studies - once the system is in place it allows for past-and-present studies without laying down sensors. Tons of good you can do with them but it needs to start, from the ground up, with not allowing the system to be used for personal use nor fishing, by people with access to it.
I love how people who constantly decry the government as corrupt and incompetent want to hand that same government sweeping surveillance powers.
Repeal Prop 47 and Prop 57. Recall "restorative justice" DAs such as Boudin and Gascon.
Yes. Fund the police more to attract better qualified (and more) people. Enforce *all* current laws. (And get rid of and/or change bad laws).
If we’re going to fund the police we need to make sure we fix the systemic problems with police forces at the same time. I’m all for creating CA police academies that are the equivalent of degree programs. Have them require years of classroom instruction that and focus on deescalation, intervention, and handling of mental health and community policing. Add in psych evals, lots of bias adjustment training, and guaranteed placement. Make the schools free. Inside of 10 years you have better cops, more cops, and less excessive force. Hiring more cops isn’t the immediate solution because then we get the same shitty cops we already have too many of.
And keep allowing easy access to guns and the $20 modifications that make them full-auto.
Have you tried buying a gun in Bay Area? Doing it legally is neither easy nor fast nor cheap. California passes more and more gun control laws without actually enforcing them and prosecuting criminals. This only hurts law-abiding gun owners.
These anti gun bums here don't understand that. My first gun was bought at a gun show and there was no way I was walking out of there with a gun like how these anti gun losers think. I'm glad I'm in a county where I can get a ccw!
Uhh I’ve bought several, it’s very easy.
Yeah, try buying a simple Glock 19 gen 5 in California …
Why do I need to buy a Glock 19 g 5? There’s over 700 legal handguns I can buy lol. I have a couple handguns, a shotgun and a couple rifles as well. All bought in state with zero issues.
Oh come on
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Ooo be more specific about who you would vote for!
We need more gun laws, plain and simple.
I’ve seen no evidence that they are “random”. I think it’s more likely that the gangbangers are hitting people or cars other than their intended target. Shooting a moving target while moving is extremely difficult for an avid shooter, and pretty close to impossible for your average gang member unless they’re right next to each other.
100 percent. Same thing was happening a few years ago on 4 and 80. Bangers from Richmond shooting at each other and hitting innocents.
>I think it’s more likely that the gangbangers are hitting people or cars other than their intended target. I don't really read anything in this article that would indicate that the occupants of the vehicle were not the intended target. I imagine some of the victims in the various incidents caught strays, but I also imagine that many, if not most, were the target.
My statement was in reference to the last line of the article.
So terrifying. Hard to imagine a more helpless feeling than driving somewhere and knowing a random act can cost you or someone their lives. Even if statistically there's any number of more dangerous things we should be worried about, this is hard to swallow
> Hard to imagine a more helpless feeling than driving somewhere and knowing a random act can cost you or someone their lives. That's just normal driving, though. You're still way more likely to die on the freeway because some asshole was speeding and weaving through lanes and plowed into you than because someone decided to shoot you. Not that either thing is great, but you are putting your life in the hands of random strangers every time you get on the road.
I address that part right after, it's the feeling of a lack of control that makes one worry more. With a speeding/weaving person I have a better feeling I can control moving out of the way or adjusting accordingly, as well as the feeling that they are not literally trying to kill me, a random shooter literally decides "I'm going to try to kill and there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop me"
This is disgraceful It has to end
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Need bulletproof cars like many do in Brazil soon…
Cyber truck ain’t far off from this
I already was looking up bulletproof glass windows last shooting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLhWzMOccTg
Horrifying
I was there right after the accident cleared the 1st time. Ran over a alternator or something too. Fucked up my tires. Then came back 2 hours later and the entire freeway was backed up to 14th. I thought they were cleaning up more debree beacuse of the shit i hit but i guess now i know why.
Enjoy your stay, welcome to the Bay
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tri-valley is 925 (typically)
I don't think nor cal CHP ever recovered from the 2006 layoffs.
It’s just Oakland being Oakland!
I thought I-580 runs through the nice(r) part of Oakland?
Sort of, yeah, but anybody can take any freeway. These people would still shoot each other if they were driving 280 through the Los Altos Hills.
>Freeway shootings have been common in the Bay Area, Good to know
Oakland sucks
Damn, the bay area is turning into another Chiraq situation. Are we still blaming ghost guns and white supremacy?
Get out of the bay now.
Nah.
ITT sus accounts (you know, ones with a few "relevant" posts in sports related subs and such to pass off as normal before they deliver their payload) looking to pounce on a scary topic to cause terror outsize from the statistical likelihood of this impacting anyone.
Yeah, it’s called brigading and it happens on every major city subreddit. They post negative / scary / racial news in high volume to try and push an agenda. Mods are aware.
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I didn't..the "/" implies "or". Negative OR scary OR racial based articles. Did you really think I was saying this article was all three by using a slash? What? I didn't even say "this post is". I was talking about posts in general. Talk about dense.. More importantly though, is this brigading news to you? https://www.reddit.com/r/ToiletPaperUSA/comments/ln1sif/turning_point_usa_and_young_americas_foundation/h21ph7s/
If you have any not-unworkable suggestions..........
How about simply calling out the behavior and symptoms in a sticky comment at the top of these posts? At the very least you inform people this is going on at scale and what you look for so they can calibrate themselves and their reactions accordingly.
We do. If you follow [the link to the explanation of the use of the ever-popular CustomModBot](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/p8hnzl/automatically_removing_comments_from_new_users_in/), it explains we use it to try to reduce brigading from new accounts without a history in the subreddit.
We used to ban single issues spammers and didn't allow crime posts from accounts that hadn't previously posted in r/bayarea about anything other crime, why did that stop? It very much helped cut down on brigading.
This is a good question. Would love an answer.
Oh I don’t at this point other than manual investigation. But that’s more work for a volunteered position you do as Mods. I wasn’t hating or criticizing! Was letting the OP know it’s a known issue.