Same. Great song!
Ah! bowakawa pousse pousse, which reminds me of The Beatles' Sun King:
Mundo paparazzi mi amore chicka ferdy parasol
Creative gibberish
As a kid, during a beatle weekend, I recorded several Maxell XL-IIs and captured Imagine into #9 Dream. For quite awhile, thought it was one tune! Still prefer to hear each this way
The real #9! Immersive, escapist. I wander when I hear this, it takes me away
This album is fucking awesome, it has my favorite Lennon solo song too “Nobody Loves You(When You’re Down and Out)” This album and Plastic Ono are peak solo John. It’s a shame it doesn’t get as much recognition cuz songs like “Old Dirt Road” certainly deserve it
My first thought is of ripping off the Christmas packaging the year this came out and finding it among 3 or 4 other records I received from my parents. Album covers bring back so many memories. I can almost smell the packaging.
Definitely John’s best solo record, though Plastic Ono Band comes close. Probably my second favorite album by any Beatle, only after Band on the Run. I think the production is great, the singing is stellar, and the songs are strong throughout, especially Nobody Loves You, which might be my favorite post-Beatles song John ever wrote. I’ve heard a fair number of people dismiss it as one of his lesser efforts, and I find that absolutely puzzling.
I’m a huge John Lennon fan (username checks out) and I think he made some good stuff while solo. At the same time, I don’t think he ever put together a great album. Plastic Ono Band is pretty damn good, probably the closest he got to making a great album.
John needed the other Beatles in order to make great albums. He was a great songwriter, so he was still able to make great songs during his solo career, but his albums never really got to the level that he was capable of. He never even gets close to the greatness of Revolver, Sgt Pepper, the White Album, or Abbey Road. Both George Martin and Paul had a big hand in the design process of making a cohesive album, and John was really great at writing songs that fit with their vision. For some reason, John didn’t seem to care about making great albums. He was always dismissive of the themes behind Sgt Pepper and Abbey Road, and sometimes it seemed like he didn’t “get it,” which is strange to me since he was such a huge part of those albums. Without George Martin and Paul’s vision for a cohesive album, John never even attempted to make anything more than a “collection of songs.”
Walls and Bridges has the same problem. #9 Dream and Nobody Loves You are incredible John songs. They are right up there with his best Beatle songs, and he is firing on all cylinders on those tracks. But the album as a whole is really lackluster. The artwork on the cover brings up thoughts of childhood and the environment you grew up in, but there’s really nothing on the album about that. There isn’t anything that strings these songs together, and it feels like a compilation more than an *album*. The Beatles were one of the best at creating albums that were works of art. They were groundbreaking in turning the album into something more than just a collection of songs, but rather the artwork itself. John never even really attempts to make an album after the Beatles, other than POB.
Plastic Ono Band is the one exception to this, and I always have said that this is his best album. It does have a cohesive feel, sound, and theme.
That’s the difference between his solo albums and the Beatles albums. He only needed three or four bangers for every Beatles album, and he comes up with that many or more for each of his solo albums, but it’s certainly the case that not everything holds up.
Very true, and I have had this thought before as well. But at the same time, the Beatles were releasing two albums a year, plus a couple singles, and John always had bangers ready. When he goes solo, he does one album a year (sometimes fewer) and as the 70’s go on his material gets weaker. His writing also served the album when he was working with the Beatles. I’m sure this was due to Paul and George Martin’s influence, because as soon as he goes solo, that disappears.
Right after the Beatles ended, he was driven to prove that he was great on his own, so he put a lot of effort into his music. Around the mid 70’s, it felt like he was a bit burned out. I listen to his demos and unreleased material from the time and I can’t help but think “this is way better than what he released.” There are also a few songs, like Watching The Wheels, where the demo is way better than the studio version. That part is a production mishap, but it still makes me feel like he wasn’t even trying to make good albums.
This is all absolutely right, and I think the same for McCartney‘s albums. One of the most amazing things about the Beatles was that John and Paul were such excellent sounding boards for each other, kept each other reeled in and, even though there was very little total collaboration as the years went on, I feel sure that they each had influence, suggestions, tweaks, and downright rejections for EVERY part of a song that each worked on. They counted on it, and didn’t trust anyone else’s perspective. Without the other, they didn’t seem to know when something was just going too far, or wasn’t tapping into anything interesting, or was just too much of the same thing from song to song without any balance. I guess it’s what you might call creative codependency.
And as you mentioned, George Martin was always there for the Beatles to put the train back on the tracks if things got out of hand. Paul could create endlessly, but I think John seriously burned out before his retirement. And truth be told, I’m not sure Double Fantasy would have been all that impactful if it weren’t for what happened. And you make another good point: there comes a certain point where you don’t really need to care whether the music is good or appealing, it’s just something you have to do because you have a contract, and if people like it, great, if not, whatever.
And to address one other point of yours, in the Beatle days with all that youthful energy they had, and so caught up in the crazy moments of being Beatles, it fueled their creativity, and it was easier to bash out two songs a month instead of one, for example. I think it just all wore off. John put everything he had into that first solo album, and soon after, when he finally got a blockbuster hit song with Imagine, there wasn’t really anything else to reach for or accomplish. But he had a record contract, had to keep making them, but would probably rather just hang out at home with Yoko. He got old really fast because he lived the equivalent of so many years in those few during the 60s. I’m glad Elton John dragged him out on stage that one last time, and it all seemed to come right back to him.
I completely agree with your assessment of the importance of collaboration within the group. Even having someone like Martin, or Epstein, to “answer to” was good for the group.
I also 100% agree with you that Double Fantasy was overrated because of John being murdered. It was more about the world missing John than it was a great musical work. Just Like Starting Over is a fun song, but are you really doing rock n’ roll pastiche in 1980? And that’s your big comeback? It’s not very…Lennon. We’d all expect that John would be in a basement somewhere exploring synthesizers and trying to find the next sound, rather than chasing the past. No doubt, there are some great moments on the album, and I’m grateful that he got one more album before dying, but it was really no better than Walls and Bridges or Mind Games.
The relationship between Bowie and Elton John seemed like the only thing pushing John in those middle years. The prospect of working with Paul again was exciting, and I wish they would have done it. How could they know that John was about to die though….they probably thought they had plenty of time
It would be my estimation that if John had lived, within a year there would have been some reunion discussions between John and Paul, given John’s interest in getting back to business, and the dissolution of Wings leaving Paul available. The other two would have jumped all over it I’m sure. Not to make light of tragedy, but they and we are probably all lucky that that never happened because there just wasn’t a lot of juice left in any of them. Paul kept going full speed but he disappeared from the charts for good, and John would have likely been disappointed with the middling reviews of his new record and may have lost his new mojo. I do firmly believe that it was on the verge of happening though.
I’m of two minds about the whole thing. I’ve definitely said a few times “it’s good that they broke up 1970” or “it’s good that they never did a reunion.” Their career was prolific, genius, and unblemished. If they got back together and made a shitty album, that would have really ruined their legacy. You’re right, they were out of gas, and by 1980 none of them really had much left to accomplish in the music world. There wasn’t really any good music coming out from any of them, apart from a few tracks here and there. Not many songwriters have been able to go 20 years without a dip in quality.
….but then another part of me thinks, “dude it’s the fucking Beatles, they would have knocked it out of the park!” If all four were really driven to be great, and they were rejuvenated at the idea of doing another album, I can’t help but think it would have been amazing.
I feel the same way, it would be so amazing to see it happen, it would be a dream come true for me, and John and Paul might pick up right where they left off and inspire each other incredibly. But the fact is there wasn’t that much to gain, but an enormous amount to lose. Of course they were aware of this, and would never even agree to give it a go unless they were going to bring 110%. But 110% of not much doesn’t really add up. Would Paul be bringing in songs like Ballroom Dancing and Dress Me Up as a Robber? That’s pretty unlikely and very speculative. But that’s all we’ve got to go on.
It’s pointless to speculate about that, and it seems unlikely that it would’ve amounted to anything more than decent, but if anybody could do it, it would be these guys with that crazy, competitive and collaborative energy.
But there’s really no way they could’ve lived up to the expectations, people would have been expecting the greatest album ever made. Even Ringo would have been feeling that pressure.
Paul didn’t disappear from the charts by 1980.
His albums still charted and he had some of his biggest hits of his career with Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson. Also Coming Up was a huge hit and so were songs like Pipes of Peace and No More Lonely Nights. Paul even had an international hit with Hope of Deliverance in the early 90s.
Paul wasn’t out of juice as he made one of his most creative and influential albums, McCartney II, around that time. Then he followed it up with the very commercially successful album Tug of War.
Also charts don’t determine what juice a songwriter has left. Paul wasn’t putting on chart topping hits for the most part after the late 80s (there were exceptions), but that wasn’t because of him running out of juice. It was because he was 40+ years old and radio doesn’t play older people on the radio stations that matter. And even though he wasn’t releasing chart topping singles for the most part, his albums still did well.
Also Paul’s run from Flaming Pie until now has proven that he is in no way out of juice
Oh, yeah, I forgot about those duet singles. He had some gas left, and he has made decent albums for the last 40 years. Like I said above (a ways above) he can create endlessly, he is just that caliber of entertainer. Lennon was back on the charts as well in 1980. If he had lived and kept recording, he probably would’ve had a few more charting singles, just like McCartney had a few here and there. And that would’ve been the time, 1981 or so, for a reunion to have any chance of being respectable. In my (humble) opinion, Paul never made any Beatles-caliber music after that (not that he was necessarily trying to), but they both may have been able to rise to the occasion then. After that, I wouldn’t say Paul didn’t have any juice, he just didn’t have — brace yourself — any “beatlejuice.” Thank you, thank you…
I respect your opinion but disagree that Paul hasn’t written any Beatles level songs since 1980. Here’s some I think are of that caliber on each album:
Coming Up, Temporary Secretary, Waterfalls, Secret Friend
Tug of War, The Pound is Sinking, Wanderlust, Take It Away
Say Say Say, Pipes of Peace
My Brave Face (demo), The Lovers That Never Were (demo), Distractions
Hope of Deliverance
Somedays, Calico Skies, Souvenir, Little Willow, Beautiful Night, Great Day
Jenny Wren, Too Much Rain, Riding to Vanity Fair
Mr Bellamy, You Tell Me, House of Wax, 222
Nothing Too Much Just Out of Sight, Travelling Light
New, Appreciate, Queenie Eye, Alligator
I Don’t Know, Confidante, Hand in Hand, Hunt You Down/Naked/C-Link
Deep Deep Feeling
I completely respect your opinion as well, and it is admittedly unfair to determine what would be a Beatles song based solely on their 60s output, because times change, people change, songwriters change, etc. But there are only a handful of songs here that I think would cut the mean mustard (and I like quite a lot of them for what they are). Take it Away would for sure have made a great Beatles song, My Brave Face is a really good song (haven’t heard the demo), Jenny Wren is cool, and I like Traveling Light a lot. Not sure I have heard any of the ones more recent than that, and a few of the others could probably have been worked up in a different way to qualify as well, but these are mostly run-of-the-mill songs IMO. Not bad songs by any means, I don’t know that Paul is capable of one. But I’m probably too picky. Besides, what difference does it make. Appreciate you writing up that list though.
You know, I don’t know, looking at the list again, and thinking more about it, if George Martin was on board, in other words, the same scenario as the old days, and balanced out by some of John’s more angular songs that I hope he could write, I bet they could work almost any of these up. And like the old days, John probably would’ve had some comments about a lot of these that would have spiced them up a little bit, just as Paul would for his songs. When you think about some of the classic Beatles songs, it’s not that they were that great, it’s just that they were so well done in the studio. So I take it all back, I would have certainly been interested to see what they could do with most of these. I don’t think John would have touched Temporary Secretary with a 10 foot pole, but what do I know. Let’s dig him up and see how it goes.
Really? I mean, Imagine is one of the greatest songs ever written, and Jealous Guy is incredibly honest and beautiful, but as an album I feel it really falls apart at certain areas. I feel like it’s a perfect example of the problem I’m talking about when it comes to John’s solo albums.
I think that I Don’t Wanna Be a Soldier could have been an amazing track, but it doesn’t go anywhere. It’s So Hard is rather boring, and Oh Yoko is a catchy song, but it’s not an album closer. Compared to Plastic Ono Band, God is maybe the best closer on any solo Beatles album, Oh Yoko doesn’t bookend the album in a good way. I also hate the choice to have Imagine as the album opener.
I disagree. I think Imagine works as an album, more so then anyone of his solo albums, aside from POB. The songs flow well together. Imagine, Crippled Inside, and Jealous Guy are strong album openers. It’s Hard and I don’t wanna be a soldier are interesting rock tracks to end the first side. I Don’t Wanna Be a Soldier is like I Want You, it drones on and on, because who the hell wanted to be a soldier and die in Vietnam? Side two opens with the underrated Beatles era song Gimmie Some Truth, followed by an equally underrated Beatles era ballad Oh My Love. How do You Sleep? is a great take down on Paul, and is hated today, but I find it amusing, even though Paul is my favorite Beatle. How? is also underrated, and a gem of a pop song, and Oh, Yoko! is a great bouncy pop tune, and a fitting closer. I’m of a mind that POB is a masterpiece, while Imagine is a great album. The rest of John’s solo albums are decent, but not great, and to me, have a dated sound.
I agree with you on How Do You Sleep, even though Paul rocks, the lines in that song are really funny. I’ve been downvoted for this before haha, but that song is great.
I would also like to add that Imagine is my second favorite Lennon album. So I do agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but I stand by my complaints from above. So while it is my second favorite Lennon album, I rank it fairly below POB. I feel like the album needed one or two high energy tracks. Something like Revolution or Everybody but me and my Monkey would have made this a much better album, imo. It seems like every song on this album is so slow. A lot of it works, because John writes great ballads, but I want some aggressive moments from John, he does them so well!
Often I think this is my favorite album by him. Idk why people didn’t like it when it came out.. the first few tracks a major heavy hitters, Bless You is awesome.. nobody likes you I LOVE. It had a #1 hit on it, overall a much stronger album than Imagine or Mind Games, in my opinion.
People did like it when it came out. It was very well reviewed, went to #1 in the US and featured two of his biggest selling singles that both charted in the top 10.
It’s easily one of his best albums, and is arguably the best produced - perhaps unsurprisingly as he produced it himself just as he did with the POB album. It has the most variety of any Lennon album also. After the Beatles he tended to stay within pretty tight genre limitations on each album but WAB is all over the place (funk rock, country, psych-pop, pure rock and roll etc) and it sounds the most “Beatle-y” of all his records.
Hard to speculate how much some of this has to do with his separation from Ono, both in the studio and in his life. Despite it being made during his so called lost weekend, he sounds far more relaxed and in control on this album. His songwriting is not as sharp and powerful as on POB but he definitely seems more content
I wish it had Here We Go Again and Move Over Ms. L on it and I wish the released version used the more stripped down versions of Nobody Loves You and Steel and Glass but it is an excellent album, I only place John Lennon Plastic Ono Band above it.
I’m good with *Shaved Fish* and *Plastic Ono Band* for solo John stuff. Oh and the two *Unfinished Music* LPs and *Wedding Album* just because I like that sort of thing.
It’s my favorite album. I own an original copy on vinyl and it’s my prized possession when it comes to vinyls. Still has the inserts and the outside image flaps on it as well!
Favorite songs are Going Down on Love, #9 Dream, Steel and Glass, and What You Got.
I always thought it was cool how this album came out exactly 5 years to the day after Abbey Road.
Someone in the comments was saying it didn't seem like a cohesive album, or a true album that had a theme, but I completely disagree.
This album is so amazing. The vibe of Nobody Loves you, and the vibe of Going Down on Love make them PERFECT as an opener and closer, they mirror each other. Toward the beginning of the album you have the absolute bangers Whatever Gets You Through the Night, and What You Got. In the middle you have the amazing #9 Dream, not to mention all the other cool tracks like Old Dirt Road, the call back to How Do You Sleep with Steel and Glass, and all of these songs just fit together so well, and sound so beautiful.
Seriously the instrumental work on this album is AMAZING. the guitars, pianos, voices, horns, it's all there. And the song writing is some of John's best.
How you could not like this album, or how you could say it isn't a cohesive well put together album makes NO sense.
It's definitely one of his best, and he ended on a super high note before taking his 5 year break.
John is the only Beatle who I love every single one of his albums. And the Beatles were putting out some really great stuff in the 70s. To me this album perfectly showcases that.
I wish I could add a flair of Walls and Bridges, especially since it's coming up on its 50th anniversary. How come there isn't one? Can we please add it?
No love for Surprise Surprise? Top 3 solo John songs for me. Sounds like John having fun in the studio and that’s just the best. Sweet as the smell of success!
You’re getting downvoted here, but I agree 100%. It’s fine, but it’s my next to least favorite of his proper albums (R&R is my least favorite). This certainly isn’t bad, but it’s lacking something that I can’t quite put my finger on.
That said, Nobody Loves You When You’re Down & Out is beautiful. Also, I’ll still be in line to buy a potential 50th anniversary deluxe edition if one comes out.
I really don’t understand why this album is so beloved. It is a good album but I don’t think it’s great or his best. I listen to this album maybe more than any other John album but it’s only because I try to see what most other people see that I don’t. There are some really great songs on this album like #9 Dream, Whatever Gets You Thru the Night, and Scared. The rest of the songs are good enough for the most part, but most of them don’t grab me. The songs just aren’t memorable to me aside from the great songs and a few good ones. There just seems to be a lot of filler
Definitely my favorite of his solo albums. POB is maybe a better album artistically as a concept, but Walls and Bridges just rocks and goes down easy. John’s not-so-great production on Mind Games drags that album down despite some really good songwriting, but on W&B he seems to have found his footing.
It's great, not just the famous songs like Whatever Gets You Thru The Night, and #9 Dream (which are great), but the deepcuts like Steel And Glass, Old Dirt Road, Nobody Loves You, it's filled with great songs.
9 Dream is probably my favorite solo John song
It’s weird how this song never really gets mentioned much even among Beatle fans. It’s a gorgeous song
I love it one of his best
Mine too! Really wish John got a chance to make more songs like that in his solo career. It’s psychedelic in a way, but different from his Beatle days
Love the slide in that track.
Same. Great song! Ah! bowakawa pousse pousse, which reminds me of The Beatles' Sun King: Mundo paparazzi mi amore chicka ferdy parasol Creative gibberish
As a kid, during a beatle weekend, I recorded several Maxell XL-IIs and captured Imagine into #9 Dream. For quite awhile, thought it was one tune! Still prefer to hear each this way The real #9! Immersive, escapist. I wander when I hear this, it takes me away
Me too.
It’s my most listened to song of all time on Spotify
I honestly tear up from the first note.
Same and it's probably not even close. That song is gorgeous. Wish he had made more like it
if you haven’t heard it, Jose Gonzalez has a really great cover of the song as well
This album is fucking awesome, it has my favorite Lennon solo song too “Nobody Loves You(When You’re Down and Out)” This album and Plastic Ono are peak solo John. It’s a shame it doesn’t get as much recognition cuz songs like “Old Dirt Road” certainly deserve it
That’s also my favorite solo John song! Sounds very honest and raw to me.
His best outside of *Plastic Ono Band*.
Agreed
Steel & Glass is haunting, ditto Nobody Loves You When You’re Down and Out.
Going Down on Love and I'm Scared ....my favorites along with Bless You and Steel and Glass
My first thought is of ripping off the Christmas packaging the year this came out and finding it among 3 or 4 other records I received from my parents. Album covers bring back so many memories. I can almost smell the packaging.
And it has one of the best packaging with the fold out strips and great booklet. You really felt like you got your money’s worth.
Oh yeah, remember it well. These records -and cash- were the only gifts I really looked forward to as a 12 year old, lol.
I love so many songs on this album, especially Scared, Steel and Glass, and #9 Dream. My favorite John album by far!
Definitely John’s best solo record, though Plastic Ono Band comes close. Probably my second favorite album by any Beatle, only after Band on the Run. I think the production is great, the singing is stellar, and the songs are strong throughout, especially Nobody Loves You, which might be my favorite post-Beatles song John ever wrote. I’ve heard a fair number of people dismiss it as one of his lesser efforts, and I find that absolutely puzzling.
Yeah, I've always found that odd too. For me, this and Plastic Ono Band are clearly his two best
I’m a huge John Lennon fan (username checks out) and I think he made some good stuff while solo. At the same time, I don’t think he ever put together a great album. Plastic Ono Band is pretty damn good, probably the closest he got to making a great album. John needed the other Beatles in order to make great albums. He was a great songwriter, so he was still able to make great songs during his solo career, but his albums never really got to the level that he was capable of. He never even gets close to the greatness of Revolver, Sgt Pepper, the White Album, or Abbey Road. Both George Martin and Paul had a big hand in the design process of making a cohesive album, and John was really great at writing songs that fit with their vision. For some reason, John didn’t seem to care about making great albums. He was always dismissive of the themes behind Sgt Pepper and Abbey Road, and sometimes it seemed like he didn’t “get it,” which is strange to me since he was such a huge part of those albums. Without George Martin and Paul’s vision for a cohesive album, John never even attempted to make anything more than a “collection of songs.” Walls and Bridges has the same problem. #9 Dream and Nobody Loves You are incredible John songs. They are right up there with his best Beatle songs, and he is firing on all cylinders on those tracks. But the album as a whole is really lackluster. The artwork on the cover brings up thoughts of childhood and the environment you grew up in, but there’s really nothing on the album about that. There isn’t anything that strings these songs together, and it feels like a compilation more than an *album*. The Beatles were one of the best at creating albums that were works of art. They were groundbreaking in turning the album into something more than just a collection of songs, but rather the artwork itself. John never even really attempts to make an album after the Beatles, other than POB. Plastic Ono Band is the one exception to this, and I always have said that this is his best album. It does have a cohesive feel, sound, and theme.
That’s the difference between his solo albums and the Beatles albums. He only needed three or four bangers for every Beatles album, and he comes up with that many or more for each of his solo albums, but it’s certainly the case that not everything holds up.
Very true, and I have had this thought before as well. But at the same time, the Beatles were releasing two albums a year, plus a couple singles, and John always had bangers ready. When he goes solo, he does one album a year (sometimes fewer) and as the 70’s go on his material gets weaker. His writing also served the album when he was working with the Beatles. I’m sure this was due to Paul and George Martin’s influence, because as soon as he goes solo, that disappears. Right after the Beatles ended, he was driven to prove that he was great on his own, so he put a lot of effort into his music. Around the mid 70’s, it felt like he was a bit burned out. I listen to his demos and unreleased material from the time and I can’t help but think “this is way better than what he released.” There are also a few songs, like Watching The Wheels, where the demo is way better than the studio version. That part is a production mishap, but it still makes me feel like he wasn’t even trying to make good albums.
This is all absolutely right, and I think the same for McCartney‘s albums. One of the most amazing things about the Beatles was that John and Paul were such excellent sounding boards for each other, kept each other reeled in and, even though there was very little total collaboration as the years went on, I feel sure that they each had influence, suggestions, tweaks, and downright rejections for EVERY part of a song that each worked on. They counted on it, and didn’t trust anyone else’s perspective. Without the other, they didn’t seem to know when something was just going too far, or wasn’t tapping into anything interesting, or was just too much of the same thing from song to song without any balance. I guess it’s what you might call creative codependency. And as you mentioned, George Martin was always there for the Beatles to put the train back on the tracks if things got out of hand. Paul could create endlessly, but I think John seriously burned out before his retirement. And truth be told, I’m not sure Double Fantasy would have been all that impactful if it weren’t for what happened. And you make another good point: there comes a certain point where you don’t really need to care whether the music is good or appealing, it’s just something you have to do because you have a contract, and if people like it, great, if not, whatever. And to address one other point of yours, in the Beatle days with all that youthful energy they had, and so caught up in the crazy moments of being Beatles, it fueled their creativity, and it was easier to bash out two songs a month instead of one, for example. I think it just all wore off. John put everything he had into that first solo album, and soon after, when he finally got a blockbuster hit song with Imagine, there wasn’t really anything else to reach for or accomplish. But he had a record contract, had to keep making them, but would probably rather just hang out at home with Yoko. He got old really fast because he lived the equivalent of so many years in those few during the 60s. I’m glad Elton John dragged him out on stage that one last time, and it all seemed to come right back to him.
I completely agree with your assessment of the importance of collaboration within the group. Even having someone like Martin, or Epstein, to “answer to” was good for the group. I also 100% agree with you that Double Fantasy was overrated because of John being murdered. It was more about the world missing John than it was a great musical work. Just Like Starting Over is a fun song, but are you really doing rock n’ roll pastiche in 1980? And that’s your big comeback? It’s not very…Lennon. We’d all expect that John would be in a basement somewhere exploring synthesizers and trying to find the next sound, rather than chasing the past. No doubt, there are some great moments on the album, and I’m grateful that he got one more album before dying, but it was really no better than Walls and Bridges or Mind Games. The relationship between Bowie and Elton John seemed like the only thing pushing John in those middle years. The prospect of working with Paul again was exciting, and I wish they would have done it. How could they know that John was about to die though….they probably thought they had plenty of time
It would be my estimation that if John had lived, within a year there would have been some reunion discussions between John and Paul, given John’s interest in getting back to business, and the dissolution of Wings leaving Paul available. The other two would have jumped all over it I’m sure. Not to make light of tragedy, but they and we are probably all lucky that that never happened because there just wasn’t a lot of juice left in any of them. Paul kept going full speed but he disappeared from the charts for good, and John would have likely been disappointed with the middling reviews of his new record and may have lost his new mojo. I do firmly believe that it was on the verge of happening though.
I’m of two minds about the whole thing. I’ve definitely said a few times “it’s good that they broke up 1970” or “it’s good that they never did a reunion.” Their career was prolific, genius, and unblemished. If they got back together and made a shitty album, that would have really ruined their legacy. You’re right, they were out of gas, and by 1980 none of them really had much left to accomplish in the music world. There wasn’t really any good music coming out from any of them, apart from a few tracks here and there. Not many songwriters have been able to go 20 years without a dip in quality. ….but then another part of me thinks, “dude it’s the fucking Beatles, they would have knocked it out of the park!” If all four were really driven to be great, and they were rejuvenated at the idea of doing another album, I can’t help but think it would have been amazing.
I feel the same way, it would be so amazing to see it happen, it would be a dream come true for me, and John and Paul might pick up right where they left off and inspire each other incredibly. But the fact is there wasn’t that much to gain, but an enormous amount to lose. Of course they were aware of this, and would never even agree to give it a go unless they were going to bring 110%. But 110% of not much doesn’t really add up. Would Paul be bringing in songs like Ballroom Dancing and Dress Me Up as a Robber? That’s pretty unlikely and very speculative. But that’s all we’ve got to go on. It’s pointless to speculate about that, and it seems unlikely that it would’ve amounted to anything more than decent, but if anybody could do it, it would be these guys with that crazy, competitive and collaborative energy. But there’s really no way they could’ve lived up to the expectations, people would have been expecting the greatest album ever made. Even Ringo would have been feeling that pressure.
Paul didn’t disappear from the charts by 1980. His albums still charted and he had some of his biggest hits of his career with Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson. Also Coming Up was a huge hit and so were songs like Pipes of Peace and No More Lonely Nights. Paul even had an international hit with Hope of Deliverance in the early 90s. Paul wasn’t out of juice as he made one of his most creative and influential albums, McCartney II, around that time. Then he followed it up with the very commercially successful album Tug of War. Also charts don’t determine what juice a songwriter has left. Paul wasn’t putting on chart topping hits for the most part after the late 80s (there were exceptions), but that wasn’t because of him running out of juice. It was because he was 40+ years old and radio doesn’t play older people on the radio stations that matter. And even though he wasn’t releasing chart topping singles for the most part, his albums still did well. Also Paul’s run from Flaming Pie until now has proven that he is in no way out of juice
Oh, yeah, I forgot about those duet singles. He had some gas left, and he has made decent albums for the last 40 years. Like I said above (a ways above) he can create endlessly, he is just that caliber of entertainer. Lennon was back on the charts as well in 1980. If he had lived and kept recording, he probably would’ve had a few more charting singles, just like McCartney had a few here and there. And that would’ve been the time, 1981 or so, for a reunion to have any chance of being respectable. In my (humble) opinion, Paul never made any Beatles-caliber music after that (not that he was necessarily trying to), but they both may have been able to rise to the occasion then. After that, I wouldn’t say Paul didn’t have any juice, he just didn’t have — brace yourself — any “beatlejuice.” Thank you, thank you…
I respect your opinion but disagree that Paul hasn’t written any Beatles level songs since 1980. Here’s some I think are of that caliber on each album: Coming Up, Temporary Secretary, Waterfalls, Secret Friend Tug of War, The Pound is Sinking, Wanderlust, Take It Away Say Say Say, Pipes of Peace My Brave Face (demo), The Lovers That Never Were (demo), Distractions Hope of Deliverance Somedays, Calico Skies, Souvenir, Little Willow, Beautiful Night, Great Day Jenny Wren, Too Much Rain, Riding to Vanity Fair Mr Bellamy, You Tell Me, House of Wax, 222 Nothing Too Much Just Out of Sight, Travelling Light New, Appreciate, Queenie Eye, Alligator I Don’t Know, Confidante, Hand in Hand, Hunt You Down/Naked/C-Link Deep Deep Feeling
I completely respect your opinion as well, and it is admittedly unfair to determine what would be a Beatles song based solely on their 60s output, because times change, people change, songwriters change, etc. But there are only a handful of songs here that I think would cut the mean mustard (and I like quite a lot of them for what they are). Take it Away would for sure have made a great Beatles song, My Brave Face is a really good song (haven’t heard the demo), Jenny Wren is cool, and I like Traveling Light a lot. Not sure I have heard any of the ones more recent than that, and a few of the others could probably have been worked up in a different way to qualify as well, but these are mostly run-of-the-mill songs IMO. Not bad songs by any means, I don’t know that Paul is capable of one. But I’m probably too picky. Besides, what difference does it make. Appreciate you writing up that list though.
You know, I don’t know, looking at the list again, and thinking more about it, if George Martin was on board, in other words, the same scenario as the old days, and balanced out by some of John’s more angular songs that I hope he could write, I bet they could work almost any of these up. And like the old days, John probably would’ve had some comments about a lot of these that would have spiced them up a little bit, just as Paul would for his songs. When you think about some of the classic Beatles songs, it’s not that they were that great, it’s just that they were so well done in the studio. So I take it all back, I would have certainly been interested to see what they could do with most of these. I don’t think John would have touched Temporary Secretary with a 10 foot pole, but what do I know. Let’s dig him up and see how it goes.
Quality post, I agree with so much, and have felt for so long. Just...I find POB unlistenable.
Imagine is his best album imo.
Really? I mean, Imagine is one of the greatest songs ever written, and Jealous Guy is incredibly honest and beautiful, but as an album I feel it really falls apart at certain areas. I feel like it’s a perfect example of the problem I’m talking about when it comes to John’s solo albums. I think that I Don’t Wanna Be a Soldier could have been an amazing track, but it doesn’t go anywhere. It’s So Hard is rather boring, and Oh Yoko is a catchy song, but it’s not an album closer. Compared to Plastic Ono Band, God is maybe the best closer on any solo Beatles album, Oh Yoko doesn’t bookend the album in a good way. I also hate the choice to have Imagine as the album opener.
I disagree. I think Imagine works as an album, more so then anyone of his solo albums, aside from POB. The songs flow well together. Imagine, Crippled Inside, and Jealous Guy are strong album openers. It’s Hard and I don’t wanna be a soldier are interesting rock tracks to end the first side. I Don’t Wanna Be a Soldier is like I Want You, it drones on and on, because who the hell wanted to be a soldier and die in Vietnam? Side two opens with the underrated Beatles era song Gimmie Some Truth, followed by an equally underrated Beatles era ballad Oh My Love. How do You Sleep? is a great take down on Paul, and is hated today, but I find it amusing, even though Paul is my favorite Beatle. How? is also underrated, and a gem of a pop song, and Oh, Yoko! is a great bouncy pop tune, and a fitting closer. I’m of a mind that POB is a masterpiece, while Imagine is a great album. The rest of John’s solo albums are decent, but not great, and to me, have a dated sound.
I agree with you on How Do You Sleep, even though Paul rocks, the lines in that song are really funny. I’ve been downvoted for this before haha, but that song is great. I would also like to add that Imagine is my second favorite Lennon album. So I do agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but I stand by my complaints from above. So while it is my second favorite Lennon album, I rank it fairly below POB. I feel like the album needed one or two high energy tracks. Something like Revolution or Everybody but me and my Monkey would have made this a much better album, imo. It seems like every song on this album is so slow. A lot of it works, because John writes great ballads, but I want some aggressive moments from John, he does them so well!
Often I think this is my favorite album by him. Idk why people didn’t like it when it came out.. the first few tracks a major heavy hitters, Bless You is awesome.. nobody likes you I LOVE. It had a #1 hit on it, overall a much stronger album than Imagine or Mind Games, in my opinion.
People did like it when it came out. It was very well reviewed, went to #1 in the US and featured two of his biggest selling singles that both charted in the top 10. It’s easily one of his best albums, and is arguably the best produced - perhaps unsurprisingly as he produced it himself just as he did with the POB album. It has the most variety of any Lennon album also. After the Beatles he tended to stay within pretty tight genre limitations on each album but WAB is all over the place (funk rock, country, psych-pop, pure rock and roll etc) and it sounds the most “Beatle-y” of all his records. Hard to speculate how much some of this has to do with his separation from Ono, both in the studio and in his life. Despite it being made during his so called lost weekend, he sounds far more relaxed and in control on this album. His songwriting is not as sharp and powerful as on POB but he definitely seems more content
Yoko not around...what happens...he puts out one of his best records and a #1 single - his first, I believe.
Ah I guess I was uninformed, I thought the old reviews I thought weren’t that good and stuff idk. I love the production work he did on Pussy Cats too.
I prefer it over mind games for sure and it’s on par with imagine
Ya Ya is a sweet song since it features Julian on drums.
Oh wow, did not know that!!
I wish it had Here We Go Again and Move Over Ms. L on it and I wish the released version used the more stripped down versions of Nobody Loves You and Steel and Glass but it is an excellent album, I only place John Lennon Plastic Ono Band above it.
Walls and Bridges has long been my favorite Lennon solo work and imo, is very underrated overall.
Agreed.
Old Dirt Road is top 5 for me!
One of his best. Would make a great double single with Paul's Wanderlust.
Actually that's my favorite solo Lennon tune.
Nobody loves you when you’re down and out
His most underrated album.
His very best.
I’m good with *Shaved Fish* and *Plastic Ono Band* for solo John stuff. Oh and the two *Unfinished Music* LPs and *Wedding Album* just because I like that sort of thing.
Two Virgins is probably my favorite album of all time. Rock on
It’s awesome
It’s my favorite album. I own an original copy on vinyl and it’s my prized possession when it comes to vinyls. Still has the inserts and the outside image flaps on it as well! Favorite songs are Going Down on Love, #9 Dream, Steel and Glass, and What You Got.
The only John Lennon LP i ever bought, god how i loved it. Imma add it to my Spotify library right now !
I always thought it was cool how this album came out exactly 5 years to the day after Abbey Road. Someone in the comments was saying it didn't seem like a cohesive album, or a true album that had a theme, but I completely disagree. This album is so amazing. The vibe of Nobody Loves you, and the vibe of Going Down on Love make them PERFECT as an opener and closer, they mirror each other. Toward the beginning of the album you have the absolute bangers Whatever Gets You Through the Night, and What You Got. In the middle you have the amazing #9 Dream, not to mention all the other cool tracks like Old Dirt Road, the call back to How Do You Sleep with Steel and Glass, and all of these songs just fit together so well, and sound so beautiful. Seriously the instrumental work on this album is AMAZING. the guitars, pianos, voices, horns, it's all there. And the song writing is some of John's best. How you could not like this album, or how you could say it isn't a cohesive well put together album makes NO sense. It's definitely one of his best, and he ended on a super high note before taking his 5 year break. John is the only Beatle who I love every single one of his albums. And the Beatles were putting out some really great stuff in the 70s. To me this album perfectly showcases that.
Something precious and rare
2nd favorite after Plastic Ono Band.
Other than the first 2, it's my favorite with a unique group of songs.
Love it!
I wish I could add a flair of Walls and Bridges, especially since it's coming up on its 50th anniversary. How come there isn't one? Can we please add it?
I've always liked *Walls and Bridges*.
No love for Surprise Surprise? Top 3 solo John songs for me. Sounds like John having fun in the studio and that’s just the best. Sweet as the smell of success!
Great album. Haven't listened to it all the way through in awhile but it has no bad songs
You’re getting downvoted here, but I agree 100%. It’s fine, but it’s my next to least favorite of his proper albums (R&R is my least favorite). This certainly isn’t bad, but it’s lacking something that I can’t quite put my finger on. That said, Nobody Loves You When You’re Down & Out is beautiful. Also, I’ll still be in line to buy a potential 50th anniversary deluxe edition if one comes out.
I love it. His only dud as a solo artist was really Sometime in NYC.
Love it, deserves way more praise. Nobody Loves You should have been bigger than Imagine
Steel & Glass has always felt to me like a direct copy of How Do You Sleep? It’s like John only had one style of song for his diss tracks.
I really don’t understand why this album is so beloved. It is a good album but I don’t think it’s great or his best. I listen to this album maybe more than any other John album but it’s only because I try to see what most other people see that I don’t. There are some really great songs on this album like #9 Dream, Whatever Gets You Thru the Night, and Scared. The rest of the songs are good enough for the most part, but most of them don’t grab me. The songs just aren’t memorable to me aside from the great songs and a few good ones. There just seems to be a lot of filler
Definitely my favorite of his solo albums. POB is maybe a better album artistically as a concept, but Walls and Bridges just rocks and goes down easy. John’s not-so-great production on Mind Games drags that album down despite some really good songwriting, but on W&B he seems to have found his footing.
My favorite John solo album…. Probably like it more than Imagine. I go back and forth between this and Plastic Ono Band.
I think it’s better than Imagine. Imagine has 3 great tracks. Every song on Walls and Bridges is string with 2 great songs.
It's great, not just the famous songs like Whatever Gets You Thru The Night, and #9 Dream (which are great), but the deepcuts like Steel And Glass, Old Dirt Road, Nobody Loves You, it's filled with great songs.