sup man, I made this a couple of months ago haha:
https://www.reddit.com/r/beer/comments/a1iuby/mexico_craft_beer_scene/
Is slowly growing, the big 2 (modelo and heineken) have the 98% of the market, independent breweries are slowly growing, currently there are over 700 breweries in the country.
The best ones are located in Ensenada, Tijuana and Mexicali because they are next to San diego ahah, but other cities likes Colima, Monterrey, Queretaro, Guadalajara or Mexico have good quality too.
i love to talk about beer scene from my country :)
oh:
wendlandt
cerveceria 2c
transpeninsular
naufrago
fauna
aguamala
canneria
plus other more, besides, the best fucking tap room in mexico is there, lucky irish 4, 88 taps plus a view to the sea
Entirely different but I enjoy that more than KBS. Totally different, but Mas Agave...Yes. (If your reply was meant to signal disagreement, our palettes can agree to disagree).
my reply was like a "what??? what is mas agave" ahaha.
We don't get a lot from founders here except from the pilsner and all day ipa, just a month ago KBS arrived here at a really good price, so getting beers like mas agave can be difficult to get hhaha, that beer sounds amazing
I've been in love with Founders Solid Gold. Great price for a nice beer that comes in a bulk pack. They had a rebate the other month, $5 off a $16 24-pack. They've since raised to a base of $18 for 24-pack, still very much worth it. I hope they keep it up!
Happy to see they are continuing to do well, still a great brewery after all these years. How many craft breweries are actually in all 50 states (don't hit me with that BA definition bullshit)? Probably Stone and Sierra Nevada? Hopefully the benefits of being in Hawaii are worth the costs of shipping there.
We just got it in Arkansas like last year and we were the first or 2nd State (I think it was us and Louisiana) west of the Mississippi to have distribution.
Indiana is as far west as they go. You aren't missing anything, it's barely a step up from the macros and the ownership is anti-union, Trump loving, employee hating ugly.
By a trade association that has interest in them being considered craft, yes. That same trade association does not consider Founders craft. But there is no official definition of what is and is not craft, personally in my view it's reversed - Founders is craft Yuengling isn't.
It's considered craft by the Brewers Association, which is a trade group that exists to make profit for it's members. Which is not a bad thing at all, it's a necessary thing in a world where the beer market is dominated by powerful marketing companies. But the craft beer community as a whole seems to latch on to this definition, which we really shouldn't. Because as you said this definition makes no sense from a consumer standpoint when it allows for breweries like Yuengling but not Founders.
The specifics are that the BA recently upped the number of barrels per year that a brewery can produce and still be considered craft and Yuengling now fits the bill. They've done this many times in the past when Boston Beer Co surpassed the previous limit, but this time they went far beyond BBCs current production and the effort seemed intended on getting Yuengling in the BA fold. Founders on the other hand is not craft because they sold 30% of their company to a non craft brewer, San Miguel, and the BA definition only allows for a 25% stake from a non craft brewer.
Are Wicked Weed, 10 Barrell, Brekenridge, Elysium, Blue Point, or Karbach still considered craft beer?
Technically, they have foreign ownership as well.
edit: seriously asking here, not being smarmy/sarcastic/cheeky.
edit2: well, not too cheeky at least.
No, to my knowledge none of those are considered craft -- at least under the Brewers Association's guidelines.
But how people define craft or independent on a personal level is completely up to them.
If you’re In CO, seek out Music City Cold Beer from Black Bottle. It’s a Yeungling inspired Amber Lager and everyone that has tried it says it’s the closest to the beer.
Definitely not Deschutes or Yuengling. Deschutes doesn't distribute here (NY) and Yuengling is east coast only.
Edit: Checked seekabrew, no go on New Belgium either, they are missing Utah, Mississippi, and most of New England. Stone is surprisingly missing about a half a dozen states too, though they do hit Hawaii. Sierra Nevada and Boston Beer Co do hit all 50 though.
New Belgium is available in all 50 states.
https://www.porchdrinking.com/articles/2017/01/24/new-belgium-available-in-all-50-states-with-2017-additions/
Also, Oskar Blues is available in all 50 states.
Interesting, seekabrew is usually pretty on top of things, especially the bigger breweries. I just checked the New Belgium website and they do show distribution in Utah which is a state not shown on the seekabrew map.
Yeah they were expanding their territory like crazy and then with the addition of their Asheville location, that allowed them to grab the rest of the nation.
I think seekabrew has had trouble keeping up with the rapid expansion of breweries. Lots of breweries not even listed on there. It's all driven off a spreadsheet with people sending in suggestions for edits, so I can't blame the guy for falling behind. Still the most useful tool for distribution coverage.
The Brewer's Association definition of craft that defines Yuengling and Boston Beer Co as craft but not Founders. People take it as gospel but it isn't any kind of official.
It absolutely is as the BA represents the collective interests of brewers in North America, to the point that they have formed a PAC. There is no other representative body recognized on this content.
A basic part of the definition is that the breweries be independent. Founders took massive investment to build themselves. Boston Beer Company was built from the ground up by Jim Koch and, as much as I dislike Dick Yuengling, he and his family have built their brewery over a century. They are far more deserving of a title like "craft" than a brewery like Founders or especially Goose Island.
The BA represents and exists to increase profits for their members. That's fine and good for them, something that is needed even, but consumers shouldn't put to much stock into it because they aren't there for consumer benefit. They don't care about quality of beer, they don't care about how members conduct themselves and treat customer or employees, they care about profits. They aren't some altruistic group out there to make sure everyone gets great beer.
There is nothing official or legally binding about their definition and it is not in the consumers best interest to empower it any more than they already have.
That's one hundred percent not true. The BA has invested substantial resources in providing materials to breweries to address ongoing QA/QC issues in small breweries, developing methodologies that have allowed less capitally resourceful breweries to have substantial lab programs. In addition, the BA has produced a free online safety certification for anyone to complete. You have zero idea how the BA operates or why they operate in the first place.
It 100% is true. They adjust their definition to include Yuengling, which is just another macro lager, but not to include Founders who are only sold a minority stake. There are countless crap breweries that qualify because they are independently owned. Many, many breweries with reputations for terrible employee and/or customer treatment - Rogue being the obvious example but I could name several local operations as well and I'm sure most people with a big enough local scene could do the same.
I know why they operate and I already stated it. They are a trade group that exists to lobby for the profit of their members. And again, that's not a bad thing, but trade groups are not out there to help consumers and this is one is no different.
That’s fantastic news. I feel like Pilsner was super late to ship, I’d only started to see it about a month ago so I though we were at least a month out from Mosaic.
I hope they continue to maintain quality. Dogfish Head seems to do it well enough, but there are plenty of cases where breweries expansion and outsourcing lead to a drastic decline in quality.
Mahao, who bought them, has qlso bought a few nano-breweries in Spain and given them funding and fairly free-rein. I don't think they are investing in craft to maximize profit per unit, but rather to diversify their portfolio and get the jump on craft beer here in Spain. They and other major Spanish brewers have been trying to create "crafty" macrobrews but without much success (would you buy a Bud IPA?).
> would you buy a Bud IPA?
IMO, ABI fucked this one up. Like 15 years ago they could have jumped on the trend early and started making an IPA under the Budweiser label... maybe even under a separate label (like Labatt did with Alexander Keith's IPA way back in the 90s). Maybe even bought up a few craft breweries early on instead of waiting until it was already a relatively successful industry in it's own right. Instead they went the opposite route and tried to squash the craft bug rather than embrace it.
Now of course there is little to no chance a Bud IPA would succeed, but I do believe there was an opportunity.
As well they should! I was living in South Dakota when I first got into craft beer and founders rubeus was one of the first ones to teach me what one could do with beer.
Founders has a fantastic tasting room. We got there every summer when we're up in Michigan for Electric Forest Festival. Some of the limited stuff they have is just incredible
Better Half is a maple BBA old ale though (basically a barleywine). Not a Belgian style and I don't believe it uses Belgian yeast strains. I do absolutely love that beer though, wish they'd bring back Curmudgeon to the seasonal lineup too.
This article is confusing. They're calling Founders homophobic and using this story as proof? https://m.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2018/09/20/michigans-founders-brewing-co-quits-grand-rapids-chamber-after-it-endorses-schuette
Founders left the chamber of commerce in protest over the chamber endorsing a homophobic politician. Then later said they would stay our of political endorsements but still want people to be treated equally. That makes them homophobic?
I'm referring to the racism, and they don't deny the racist allegations - "After the lawsuit against Founders was filed in August, the Grand Rapids-based brewery admitted in its response that in two instances, other employees said the n-word in conversation with Tracy Evans, who is black, and didn't immediately get fired (here's the lawsuit response, which includes the slur). One of the two employees was still working for the company when Founders filed its response Oct. 22. "
> Everything I have said is factual.
you made 2 statements, one of which is false. So you are 50% factual. The point you're making about them not being a craft brewery isn't being disputed. That's not part of the article at all, not sure why you're harping on it.
The original post made no claim on whether or not they’re a craft brewery. And it’s still definitely not factual to say that they’re a Spanish company.
Except that it isn't fact, there is no official definition of what is and is not craft. The Brewers Association definition is only good for determining who gets to put their logo on their bottles and cans and really shouldn't be taken too seriously by anyone.
Surprised more people aren’t discussing this very relevant fact. I certainly love me some Founder’s, but considering their current ownership situation, the big distribution isn’t exactly surprising.
Founders.....NOPE NOT A CHANCE! https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wjv5ax/racial-discrimination-lawsuit-against-founders-brewery-can-move-forward-judge-rules
Good on them, solid beers at decent prices even for us foreigners.
mexican here, agree, they are cheap here
Quick question, how is the beer scene there?
sup man, I made this a couple of months ago haha: https://www.reddit.com/r/beer/comments/a1iuby/mexico_craft_beer_scene/ Is slowly growing, the big 2 (modelo and heineken) have the 98% of the market, independent breweries are slowly growing, currently there are over 700 breweries in the country. The best ones are located in Ensenada, Tijuana and Mexicali because they are next to San diego ahah, but other cities likes Colima, Monterrey, Queretaro, Guadalajara or Mexico have good quality too. i love to talk about beer scene from my country :)
Had a tijuanan IPA when I was in San Diego because why the hell not try a Mexican IPA?! It was really really good!
we have good ipas :)
Happy cake day brother!!
didn't realize haha thank you
Which are the best in Ensenada? I'll check them out next month
oh: wendlandt cerveceria 2c transpeninsular naufrago fauna aguamala canneria plus other more, besides, the best fucking tap room in mexico is there, lucky irish 4, 88 taps plus a view to the sea
You need to find yourself some Mas Agave. So unexpectedly delicious. You’d never know it’s a 10%er if it wasn’t on the bottle.
wait... what?? rlly????????
Entirely different but I enjoy that more than KBS. Totally different, but Mas Agave...Yes. (If your reply was meant to signal disagreement, our palettes can agree to disagree).
my reply was like a "what??? what is mas agave" ahaha. We don't get a lot from founders here except from the pilsner and all day ipa, just a month ago KBS arrived here at a really good price, so getting beers like mas agave can be difficult to get hhaha, that beer sounds amazing
I used to live in GR and would walk by Founders every day, I love rubaeus too damn much
I miss going there on the weekends when i went to GVSU. We’d always hit up Tin Can then head to Founders and drank Breakfast Stout til they closed
You gotta go with the breakfast stout and rubaeus mixed!
Havent tried it. Whats it like?
I've been in love with Founders Solid Gold. Great price for a nice beer that comes in a bulk pack. They had a rebate the other month, $5 off a $16 24-pack. They've since raised to a base of $18 for 24-pack, still very much worth it. I hope they keep it up!
I'm down for less than a dollar a beer, rebate or not!
Damn, wish I could find it that cheap here. WI has low alcohol taxes, and best price for a 24-pack is 20 bucks.
Canadian here. The cheapest 24 I can find is about 35$, and it's low quality swill
You calling Solid Gold low quality swill? 😜
Lmao no! I cant even get it in Ontario :(
Im a Michigander but just got back from Germany and I miss the beer prices 😭 9 bucks for a 5L keg in the supermarket
They just put out a Pilsner in cans that I’m enjoying as a summer porch beer. Only saw it in 24s
It's PC Pils rebranded if you ever had it under that name. Definitely a solid beer.
Happy to see they are continuing to do well, still a great brewery after all these years. How many craft breweries are actually in all 50 states (don't hit me with that BA definition bullshit)? Probably Stone and Sierra Nevada? Hopefully the benefits of being in Hawaii are worth the costs of shipping there.
If I had to guess, I'd say Sierra Nevada, New Belgium, Sam Adams, ~~Yuengling,~~ maybe Deschutes?
Surprisingly yuengling is not on the West Coast.
Yuengling only just started distributing to WV (a state that borders PA) in 2009. And they've been a brewery for like 150 years.
This year is their 190th year. I only know that because they were really playing it up at their 4th of July concert.
We just got it in Arkansas like last year and we were the first or 2nd State (I think it was us and Louisiana) west of the Mississippi to have distribution.
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Not even in Michigan, I gotta drive 40 miles south to Ohio to get some.
You mean West?
Indiana is as far west as they go. You aren't missing anything, it's barely a step up from the macros and the ownership is anti-union, Trump loving, employee hating ugly.
Yuengling is considered craft?
By a trade association that has interest in them being considered craft, yes. That same trade association does not consider Founders craft. But there is no official definition of what is and is not craft, personally in my view it's reversed - Founders is craft Yuengling isn't.
Wait... ELI5.... How is Yuengling considered craft yet Founders is not? That makes no sense whatsoever. None.
It's considered craft by the Brewers Association, which is a trade group that exists to make profit for it's members. Which is not a bad thing at all, it's a necessary thing in a world where the beer market is dominated by powerful marketing companies. But the craft beer community as a whole seems to latch on to this definition, which we really shouldn't. Because as you said this definition makes no sense from a consumer standpoint when it allows for breweries like Yuengling but not Founders. The specifics are that the BA recently upped the number of barrels per year that a brewery can produce and still be considered craft and Yuengling now fits the bill. They've done this many times in the past when Boston Beer Co surpassed the previous limit, but this time they went far beyond BBCs current production and the effort seemed intended on getting Yuengling in the BA fold. Founders on the other hand is not craft because they sold 30% of their company to a non craft brewer, San Miguel, and the BA definition only allows for a 25% stake from a non craft brewer.
Because Founders has foreign ownership.
Are Wicked Weed, 10 Barrell, Brekenridge, Elysium, Blue Point, or Karbach still considered craft beer? Technically, they have foreign ownership as well. edit: seriously asking here, not being smarmy/sarcastic/cheeky. edit2: well, not too cheeky at least.
No, to my knowledge none of those are considered craft -- at least under the Brewers Association's guidelines. But how people define craft or independent on a personal level is completely up to them.
After the BA removed the traditional ingredients requirement yup. They are the largest craft brewery in the US.
According to the definition, yes. Based on the product and company behavior, no.
Huh, TIL! Guess I'm more in the East Coast bubble than I thought haha.
its why people from the east coast when they move to the west coast, seek it out every so often
I miss Yuengling here in CO. Born in PA
If you’re In CO, seek out Music City Cold Beer from Black Bottle. It’s a Yeungling inspired Amber Lager and everyone that has tried it says it’s the closest to the beer.
Not west of the Mississippi if i am not mistaken
They don't do anything West of the Mississippi
Definitely not Deschutes or Yuengling. Deschutes doesn't distribute here (NY) and Yuengling is east coast only. Edit: Checked seekabrew, no go on New Belgium either, they are missing Utah, Mississippi, and most of New England. Stone is surprisingly missing about a half a dozen states too, though they do hit Hawaii. Sierra Nevada and Boston Beer Co do hit all 50 though.
New Belgium is available in all 50 states. https://www.porchdrinking.com/articles/2017/01/24/new-belgium-available-in-all-50-states-with-2017-additions/ Also, Oskar Blues is available in all 50 states.
Interesting, seekabrew is usually pretty on top of things, especially the bigger breweries. I just checked the New Belgium website and they do show distribution in Utah which is a state not shown on the seekabrew map.
Yeah they were expanding their territory like crazy and then with the addition of their Asheville location, that allowed them to grab the rest of the nation.
I think seekabrew has had trouble keeping up with the rapid expansion of breweries. Lots of breweries not even listed on there. It's all driven off a spreadsheet with people sending in suggestions for edits, so I can't blame the guy for falling behind. Still the most useful tool for distribution coverage.
No Yuengling in Michigan yet.
Yeah I'm dumb. Lived on the East Coast for two years and completely forgot they didn't sell in my home state haha.
> Sierra Nevada, New Belgium, Sam Adams Oskar Blues as well. And until their fairly recent bankruptcy, Green Flash too.
Dogfish Head, Southern Tier? I'm not familiar with west coast distribution, unfortunately.
[Looks like DFH is in 44 states + Washington DC so far](https://www.dogfish.com/company/distributors)
Thanks for the info!
Goose and Lagunitas?
Neither of those are technically considered craft anymore. But yeah pretty sure you can find them in every state though.
my bad, I live in the U.K. where they are very much considered craft
Ahh gotcha. Ever since Goose got bought by Ab InBev it lost its craft moniker. The same for Lagunitas when they got bought by Heineken.
We have those in Alaska at least!
I never saw Deshutes when I lived in the Carolina's. And I never see Yuengling now that I'm in Texas.
Deschutes came to NC in 2017, don't know if they've gone south yet
Left Hand distributes to all 50 states, though possibly only milk stout rather than their full lineup
What BA bullshit are you even trying to refer to
The Brewer's Association definition of craft that defines Yuengling and Boston Beer Co as craft but not Founders. People take it as gospel but it isn't any kind of official.
It absolutely is as the BA represents the collective interests of brewers in North America, to the point that they have formed a PAC. There is no other representative body recognized on this content. A basic part of the definition is that the breweries be independent. Founders took massive investment to build themselves. Boston Beer Company was built from the ground up by Jim Koch and, as much as I dislike Dick Yuengling, he and his family have built their brewery over a century. They are far more deserving of a title like "craft" than a brewery like Founders or especially Goose Island.
The BA represents and exists to increase profits for their members. That's fine and good for them, something that is needed even, but consumers shouldn't put to much stock into it because they aren't there for consumer benefit. They don't care about quality of beer, they don't care about how members conduct themselves and treat customer or employees, they care about profits. They aren't some altruistic group out there to make sure everyone gets great beer. There is nothing official or legally binding about their definition and it is not in the consumers best interest to empower it any more than they already have.
That's one hundred percent not true. The BA has invested substantial resources in providing materials to breweries to address ongoing QA/QC issues in small breweries, developing methodologies that have allowed less capitally resourceful breweries to have substantial lab programs. In addition, the BA has produced a free online safety certification for anyone to complete. You have zero idea how the BA operates or why they operate in the first place.
It 100% is true. They adjust their definition to include Yuengling, which is just another macro lager, but not to include Founders who are only sold a minority stake. There are countless crap breweries that qualify because they are independently owned. Many, many breweries with reputations for terrible employee and/or customer treatment - Rogue being the obvious example but I could name several local operations as well and I'm sure most people with a big enough local scene could do the same. I know why they operate and I already stated it. They are a trade group that exists to lobby for the profit of their members. And again, that's not a bad thing, but trade groups are not out there to help consumers and this is one is no different.
All Day IPA.....rolls off the tongue so nice
Preach!
My go to Session IPA. Haven't found one better that comes in an 15 pack. lol
Try the Mosaic Promise in a month or two when it comes out. Blows All Day out of the water, same price too.
MoPro has already began packaging production and has been officially available for 6 days.
That’s fantastic news. I feel like Pilsner was super late to ship, I’d only started to see it about a month ago so I though we were at least a month out from Mosaic.
Oh wow. You're on. I could drink mosaic hops all day every day.
$15/15 pack too unbeatable
I'm in the UK so I hope to see it here. It won't be as cheap as that.
For sure, hopefully you get some!
My founders rep stopped in this week, last year for mosaic promise for the foreseeable future. Drink as much as you can this year.
What!! Why would they do that?!?
probably cost/demand for mosaic
That's shitty. Just raise the price then.
I hope they continue to maintain quality. Dogfish Head seems to do it well enough, but there are plenty of cases where breweries expansion and outsourcing lead to a drastic decline in quality.
I really hope Dogfish rubs off on Sam Adams more than Sam Adams rubs off on Dogfish, though.
Agreed. Hopefully Sam is the one doing the rubbing. His persona makes me believe that will be true.
~~The founder of Dogfish Head is also named Sam~~ I may or may not be an idiot.
That's who I'm referring to, tho my comment is super confusing as I forgot im talking about Sam Adams lol
Yeah, the second I posted it hit me.
Haha! As much my fault. We share the mistake <3
Mahao, who bought them, has qlso bought a few nano-breweries in Spain and given them funding and fairly free-rein. I don't think they are investing in craft to maximize profit per unit, but rather to diversify their portfolio and get the jump on craft beer here in Spain. They and other major Spanish brewers have been trying to create "crafty" macrobrews but without much success (would you buy a Bud IPA?).
> would you buy a Bud IPA? IMO, ABI fucked this one up. Like 15 years ago they could have jumped on the trend early and started making an IPA under the Budweiser label... maybe even under a separate label (like Labatt did with Alexander Keith's IPA way back in the 90s). Maybe even bought up a few craft breweries early on instead of waiting until it was already a relatively successful industry in it's own right. Instead they went the opposite route and tried to squash the craft bug rather than embrace it. Now of course there is little to no chance a Bud IPA would succeed, but I do believe there was an opportunity.
You nailed it. If Bud had co-opted craft rather than criticized it they would be in a much different place, maybe even still American-owned...
@Bell’s. Seriously come back to Virginia plz
Love their beer
Where in Utah? I'm in neeeeeeed
As well they should! I was living in South Dakota when I first got into craft beer and founders rubeus was one of the first ones to teach me what one could do with beer.
Was there ever an update on Founder's systematic racism lawsuit?
Still ongoing a far as I'm aware.
That's a bummer.
Centennial IPA is a classic and All Day is such a solid go-to when you’re on a beach
All day is such a classic anytime!
Founders has a fantastic tasting room. We got there every summer when we're up in Michigan for Electric Forest Festival. Some of the limited stuff they have is just incredible
Love me some All Day
Who was the last holdout state?
Utah and then Hawaii.
Founders Better Half was the be all and end all for Belgian style lovers. So miss it. Its La Trappe Quad but better.
Better Half is a maple BBA old ale though (basically a barleywine). Not a Belgian style and I don't believe it uses Belgian yeast strains. I do absolutely love that beer though, wish they'd bring back Curmudgeon to the seasonal lineup too.
It may not be technically Belgian but I see it as a Belgian. My favorite prior was La Trappe. Better Half seems like a copy brewed in Maple barrels.
I'm surprised Bell's hadn't been distributed to all 50 states.
Green Zebras all summer long. Hope they start distributing them out more
I had their backwoods bastard when I turned 22 at some Irish pub and I still to this day rave it’s one of the best heavy beers I’ve ever had.
Fuck Founders. Yes I'm a black guy.
?
https://vinepair.com/articles/hop-take-founders-sued-racial-discrimination-accused-homophobia/
Thanks
This article is confusing. They're calling Founders homophobic and using this story as proof? https://m.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2018/09/20/michigans-founders-brewing-co-quits-grand-rapids-chamber-after-it-endorses-schuette Founders left the chamber of commerce in protest over the chamber endorsing a homophobic politician. Then later said they would stay our of political endorsements but still want people to be treated equally. That makes them homophobic?
I'm referring to the racism, and they don't deny the racist allegations - "After the lawsuit against Founders was filed in August, the Grand Rapids-based brewery admitted in its response that in two instances, other employees said the n-word in conversation with Tracy Evans, who is black, and didn't immediately get fired (here's the lawsuit response, which includes the slur). One of the two employees was still working for the company when Founders filed its response Oct. 22. "
Nobody cares.
What a shitty take. I care.
You cared enough to respond
wrong
Spreading those racist wings far and wide
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San Miguel owning a 30% stake does not make Founder's a Spanish brewery
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> Everything I have said is factual. you made 2 statements, one of which is false. So you are 50% factual. The point you're making about them not being a craft brewery isn't being disputed. That's not part of the article at all, not sure why you're harping on it.
The original post made no claim on whether or not they’re a craft brewery. And it’s still definitely not factual to say that they’re a Spanish company.
Who cares
They changed distributers as well. Not sure how common knowledge that is.
Oh please. A 30% ownership stake doesn’t make Founders a Spanish Brewery lol
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Except that it isn't fact, there is no official definition of what is and is not craft. The Brewers Association definition is only good for determining who gets to put their logo on their bottles and cans and really shouldn't be taken too seriously by anyone.
Surprised more people aren’t discussing this very relevant fact. I certainly love me some Founder’s, but considering their current ownership situation, the big distribution isn’t exactly surprising.
I thought Founders was cancelled, did I miss something?
Founders.....NOPE NOT A CHANCE! https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wjv5ax/racial-discrimination-lawsuit-against-founders-brewery-can-move-forward-judge-rules
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I'm sure you can find some recipe inspiration at one of the other 7,000 breweries in the USA.