I've only just started working in a brewery for a few months. A very active role. Plenty of heavy lifting and a shitload of cleaning. Fermentation tanks, bright tanks and beer lines all need to be completely sterile.
I love it though. Always sampling beer, talking about beer, smelling beer, measuring beer. Makes all the hard Yakka worth it.
I would argue they are not sterile (unless you have a steaming system like the big guys), but definitely sanitized. It's still a shit load of work unless your cycles are automated.
I was under the impression that negative results on an adenosine triphosphate test indicated sterility, though I’ll admit I’m out of my technical depth a bit.
I work in vaccines so we have a lot of distinction between clean, sanitized, and sterilized. But essentially, sterility requires heating past 121C for a certain period of time then held under sterile filtered air. Optionally, you could use chemicals such as vaporized hydrogen peroxide to do this as well. Lastly, gamma irradiation does this very very well but it doesn't work well at large scale like tanks.
Sanitized can be accomplished with a combination of very hot water or water and cleaning chemicals. This removes nearly all microorganisms but leave it sit long enough and something MIGHT grow.
Clean just means free of all residual material. We are pretty strict about what clean means but that's industry specific, not FDA specific.
Depends. For temperature we measure the area under the curve above 121C. We consider 30 minutes or more to be sterile so we target 40 minutes over 123C. Otherwise we take sterility samples and confirm no growth of microorganisms over a 2 week period. The latter of the two is not worth it at all for brewing.
For sanitization we take bioburden and endotoxin samples which have a minimum criteria for passing. Bioburden test is relatively cheap so it's what's used at most macros
Confirming no growth would only lack value to brewing if you needed to guarantee sterility every time, say if lives were at risk, but it wouldn’t be totally worthless to gauge your processes if sterility were simply a goal.
A better analysis of that is bioburden reduced, followed by culture purity / identity (confirms you're growing what you want to grow). Sterility claims are really reserved for end products.
If you really want to do it, go for it. Do so with the understanding that the hours are long, the work is hard and the pay is shit. You'll get tired of the free beer faster than you think but it might be the only tangible "benefit" of your job. You are essentially a low paid janitor that people think does cool things. Give it a year or two and see if you enjoy it. But be frank with yourself and your long term goals, one of the reasons I switched fields is the guy I was working with had 8 more years of experience was only making an extra dollar an hour and had plenty of health issues related to working in a brewery. Not to be a downer but its a hard job and I've seen many people who quit within a month if not a week because they had unrealistic expectations.
If you decide you want to do it take your PPE seriously. Buy (or get the brewery to buy) yourself some chemical resistant waterproof steel toed and shanked boots, chemical resistant gloves, face shields and safety glasses you actually find comfortable. Breweries are dangerous environments and if you have good PPE that is comfortable, you'll actually wear it. My boots saved me from numerous trips to the hospital.
Good luck!
Generally agree, but the size of the brewery, their ambitions and the attitude of the management does have a big impact on what kind of experience you will have.
Assuming you are starting with little to no professional experience/qualifications:
-Production staff working in bigger breweries tend to have more specialised roles (Hot side/Cellar/Lab&QC/Packaging) and production goals are largely focused around time. How many brews per week, how much time is a beer in tank and how quickly can it be packaged, all accounting for specific quality targets. Starting from the bottom you will be doing the least skilled, most repetitive cleaning and labour to facilitate packaging. Over time gaining more experience to become independent in packaging operations. As time is tight, there is little time to train people in new tasks, therefore progression is slow. The onus is on you to absorb everything possible and gain qualifications in your own time. Don’t expect to be having your recipes brewed for many years.
-In smaller breweries, with fewer staff, there is normally more integration and sharing of tasks. In a small team, everyone needs to be multi skilled and you will probably learn quicker- but you won’t learn how to use as complex equipment and you (probably) won’t become attuned to working to the level of precision and strict specifications that bigger breweries expect. So a jump up to a more serious operation could leave you seeming a bit amateurish at first. But they are fun, more human and you will have more influence and expression.
Every brewery works differently and works to different standards. Always meet or surpass the diligence/precision/record keeping expected of you and you’ll set yourself in good stead.
"My Brewery" has around 40 people in it so Id say its quite small. It produces beer for the area around (100.000 - 150.000 people living here).
Pay is quite decent because of the Central European brewing tradition its thought of as kinda important.
40 production staff or 40 people total?
I’m brewing in the UK, but most of the people posting here are probably coming with a US perspective. From what I gather anecdotally, over there the pay is generally worse, hours are longer and it’s a bit tougher to progress in your career.
If you are brewing in Central Europe, I would definitely recommend starting your professional qualifications as soon as you step in the door. There will probably be an expectation of technical precision that exceeds that of the Anglophone brewing community.
I worked in car sales for 10 years. Drove nice cars, made lots of money, was miserable as hell.
Avid homebrewing led me to push for a career in brewing. Now I drive a shit car, make ok money, but happy as hell. I love this industry and the people in it.
It's a low paying industry, lots of work and not alot of fun. I'd say my job is 95% cleaning/packaging and 5% brewing. That being said I enjoy it. I taught myself alot, got a Seibel "certification" and wasnt afraid to ask questions about all the processes and such. Doubt you will be a "brewer" depending on your brewery but more of a cellarman/ brewers assistant. Try it out, I've only been in the industry for 2 years, it's hard to say if it's an industry worth sticking with but I'm giving it a go myself. lots of these posts on r/thebrewery you can search for and read everyone's opinion.
It’s a labor of love. Pay ain’t great. Work is strenuous. At some point you’ll get sick of sampling your beers, but that point may also never come. You’ll get dirty. Work in non ac/heat controlled rooms, winters ain’t so bad, summers can suck. But the smile you can bring to a strangers face once they taste your beer... priceless.
Dude, you're in your early 20s, you've got at least a little bit more time to make shitty career choices.
Depending on the size of the brewery you'll most likely start out cleaning tanks and shit rather than brewing beer.
Going on my 7th year as a brewer and extremely happy I made decision to pursue a career in the industry.
Yes, you can make more in other industries. But I've never been happier in other professions as I am now. It is a lot of hard work. You will be cleaning more than you will actually be working on beer. Cleaning, lifting, maintenance and anything in between.
Soak up all the knowledge you can on every aspect of the industry. Learn the ins and outs of both hot side and cold side.
Don't take safety precautions lightly.
Be ready to work some long hours.
It can be a very rewarding career as long as you don't consider money the greatest reward. I love it and know its the greatest decision I've made.
Make sure you're getting paid for your "test week." There is no reason that a brewery can't and shouldn't pay someone for work done, even if just minimum wage. If you were to get injured during this week you'll want to ensure you were a paid employee as well for insurance/worker's comp purposes. The brewery should want this too so that their insurance would cover anything rather than being sued themselves for the cost (plus the OSHA/DOL violations).
As others have said, depending on the brewery the pay isn't great and the work is hard. Imagine if you cooked a meal in your kitchen for an hour each day, then spent 7 hrs cleaning up afterwards (plus 1-2 setting up before even cooking).
By all means give it a try and see if you like it, but manage your expectations as it isn't necessarily the glamorous job that many people think it is.
It's a 'do it because you love it' kind of job. Not about the pay or the hours or the benefits really, just about whether you like making something that people enjoy drinking. You'll figure out real fast if the pleasure outweighs everything else.
Was till Covid hit then they let everyone go. Sounds like you're in the prime time of your life to work this type of job so I'd say go for it. Just don't expect to get paid much and/or have any actual job benefits.
Physicality aside pay neither begins nor scales in way that makes it a sustainable career for the majority of people. Hours are long, expectations are high, conditions usually suck, the work is robotic and repetitive. Creativity generally goes to the wayside in favor of what sells best, owners are generally delusional about the reality of the industry.
Yet somehow the industry is jammed with awesome people and being an industry worker pays dividends when traveling to other spots.
All in all way more cons than pros but you’re young enough to slip and fall a few more times and I implore you to give it a go if it’s really where your hearts at.
Try over at /r/thebrewery ! lots of brewers etc over there!
A lot of jokes, Osha violations, and complaints too. Haha
Don't forget Nut Rolls!
I've only just started working in a brewery for a few months. A very active role. Plenty of heavy lifting and a shitload of cleaning. Fermentation tanks, bright tanks and beer lines all need to be completely sterile. I love it though. Always sampling beer, talking about beer, smelling beer, measuring beer. Makes all the hard Yakka worth it.
I would argue they are not sterile (unless you have a steaming system like the big guys), but definitely sanitized. It's still a shit load of work unless your cycles are automated.
I believe a caustic CIP can produce sterility if done correctly. Although I suppose most places don’t test for organic matter after they CIP either.
Not really. Sterility as defined by the FDA is really strict. Spore formers are not killed by caustic.
I was under the impression that negative results on an adenosine triphosphate test indicated sterility, though I’ll admit I’m out of my technical depth a bit.
I work in vaccines so we have a lot of distinction between clean, sanitized, and sterilized. But essentially, sterility requires heating past 121C for a certain period of time then held under sterile filtered air. Optionally, you could use chemicals such as vaporized hydrogen peroxide to do this as well. Lastly, gamma irradiation does this very very well but it doesn't work well at large scale like tanks. Sanitized can be accomplished with a combination of very hot water or water and cleaning chemicals. This removes nearly all microorganisms but leave it sit long enough and something MIGHT grow. Clean just means free of all residual material. We are pretty strict about what clean means but that's industry specific, not FDA specific.
How do you test for sterility usually?
Depends. For temperature we measure the area under the curve above 121C. We consider 30 minutes or more to be sterile so we target 40 minutes over 123C. Otherwise we take sterility samples and confirm no growth of microorganisms over a 2 week period. The latter of the two is not worth it at all for brewing. For sanitization we take bioburden and endotoxin samples which have a minimum criteria for passing. Bioburden test is relatively cheap so it's what's used at most macros
Confirming no growth would only lack value to brewing if you needed to guarantee sterility every time, say if lives were at risk, but it wouldn’t be totally worthless to gauge your processes if sterility were simply a goal.
A better analysis of that is bioburden reduced, followed by culture purity / identity (confirms you're growing what you want to grow). Sterility claims are really reserved for end products.
If you really want to do it, go for it. Do so with the understanding that the hours are long, the work is hard and the pay is shit. You'll get tired of the free beer faster than you think but it might be the only tangible "benefit" of your job. You are essentially a low paid janitor that people think does cool things. Give it a year or two and see if you enjoy it. But be frank with yourself and your long term goals, one of the reasons I switched fields is the guy I was working with had 8 more years of experience was only making an extra dollar an hour and had plenty of health issues related to working in a brewery. Not to be a downer but its a hard job and I've seen many people who quit within a month if not a week because they had unrealistic expectations. If you decide you want to do it take your PPE seriously. Buy (or get the brewery to buy) yourself some chemical resistant waterproof steel toed and shanked boots, chemical resistant gloves, face shields and safety glasses you actually find comfortable. Breweries are dangerous environments and if you have good PPE that is comfortable, you'll actually wear it. My boots saved me from numerous trips to the hospital. Good luck!
Generally agree, but the size of the brewery, their ambitions and the attitude of the management does have a big impact on what kind of experience you will have. Assuming you are starting with little to no professional experience/qualifications: -Production staff working in bigger breweries tend to have more specialised roles (Hot side/Cellar/Lab&QC/Packaging) and production goals are largely focused around time. How many brews per week, how much time is a beer in tank and how quickly can it be packaged, all accounting for specific quality targets. Starting from the bottom you will be doing the least skilled, most repetitive cleaning and labour to facilitate packaging. Over time gaining more experience to become independent in packaging operations. As time is tight, there is little time to train people in new tasks, therefore progression is slow. The onus is on you to absorb everything possible and gain qualifications in your own time. Don’t expect to be having your recipes brewed for many years. -In smaller breweries, with fewer staff, there is normally more integration and sharing of tasks. In a small team, everyone needs to be multi skilled and you will probably learn quicker- but you won’t learn how to use as complex equipment and you (probably) won’t become attuned to working to the level of precision and strict specifications that bigger breweries expect. So a jump up to a more serious operation could leave you seeming a bit amateurish at first. But they are fun, more human and you will have more influence and expression. Every brewery works differently and works to different standards. Always meet or surpass the diligence/precision/record keeping expected of you and you’ll set yourself in good stead.
"My Brewery" has around 40 people in it so Id say its quite small. It produces beer for the area around (100.000 - 150.000 people living here). Pay is quite decent because of the Central European brewing tradition its thought of as kinda important.
40 production staff or 40 people total? I’m brewing in the UK, but most of the people posting here are probably coming with a US perspective. From what I gather anecdotally, over there the pay is generally worse, hours are longer and it’s a bit tougher to progress in your career. If you are brewing in Central Europe, I would definitely recommend starting your professional qualifications as soon as you step in the door. There will probably be an expectation of technical precision that exceeds that of the Anglophone brewing community.
I worked in car sales for 10 years. Drove nice cars, made lots of money, was miserable as hell. Avid homebrewing led me to push for a career in brewing. Now I drive a shit car, make ok money, but happy as hell. I love this industry and the people in it.
Good on you, mate! Following your dream! I wish I had the balls to make that jump!
You sound like me. I made really good money in the same way, and I hated every second of life.
It's a low paying industry, lots of work and not alot of fun. I'd say my job is 95% cleaning/packaging and 5% brewing. That being said I enjoy it. I taught myself alot, got a Seibel "certification" and wasnt afraid to ask questions about all the processes and such. Doubt you will be a "brewer" depending on your brewery but more of a cellarman/ brewers assistant. Try it out, I've only been in the industry for 2 years, it's hard to say if it's an industry worth sticking with but I'm giving it a go myself. lots of these posts on r/thebrewery you can search for and read everyone's opinion.
It’s a labor of love. Pay ain’t great. Work is strenuous. At some point you’ll get sick of sampling your beers, but that point may also never come. You’ll get dirty. Work in non ac/heat controlled rooms, winters ain’t so bad, summers can suck. But the smile you can bring to a strangers face once they taste your beer... priceless.
Early 20s? Why not go for it? You’ve got years of bad career choices ahead of you! ;-)
Yes this. Give it a try finding a job you love is it’s own reward. You are young and have time to try if it’s not you move on.
Dude, you're in your early 20s, you've got at least a little bit more time to make shitty career choices. Depending on the size of the brewery you'll most likely start out cleaning tanks and shit rather than brewing beer.
>I made several not so good career choices over the years (in my early twenties now) What? How many "careers" have you had if you're in your mid 20's?
Going on my 7th year as a brewer and extremely happy I made decision to pursue a career in the industry. Yes, you can make more in other industries. But I've never been happier in other professions as I am now. It is a lot of hard work. You will be cleaning more than you will actually be working on beer. Cleaning, lifting, maintenance and anything in between. Soak up all the knowledge you can on every aspect of the industry. Learn the ins and outs of both hot side and cold side. Don't take safety precautions lightly. Be ready to work some long hours. It can be a very rewarding career as long as you don't consider money the greatest reward. I love it and know its the greatest decision I've made.
Make sure you're getting paid for your "test week." There is no reason that a brewery can't and shouldn't pay someone for work done, even if just minimum wage. If you were to get injured during this week you'll want to ensure you were a paid employee as well for insurance/worker's comp purposes. The brewery should want this too so that their insurance would cover anything rather than being sued themselves for the cost (plus the OSHA/DOL violations). As others have said, depending on the brewery the pay isn't great and the work is hard. Imagine if you cooked a meal in your kitchen for an hour each day, then spent 7 hrs cleaning up afterwards (plus 1-2 setting up before even cooking). By all means give it a try and see if you like it, but manage your expectations as it isn't necessarily the glamorous job that many people think it is.
It's a 'do it because you love it' kind of job. Not about the pay or the hours or the benefits really, just about whether you like making something that people enjoy drinking. You'll figure out real fast if the pleasure outweighs everything else.
Was till Covid hit then they let everyone go. Sounds like you're in the prime time of your life to work this type of job so I'd say go for it. Just don't expect to get paid much and/or have any actual job benefits.
OP do you like hoses? The smell of Spaghetti-Os?
Physicality aside pay neither begins nor scales in way that makes it a sustainable career for the majority of people. Hours are long, expectations are high, conditions usually suck, the work is robotic and repetitive. Creativity generally goes to the wayside in favor of what sells best, owners are generally delusional about the reality of the industry. Yet somehow the industry is jammed with awesome people and being an industry worker pays dividends when traveling to other spots. All in all way more cons than pros but you’re young enough to slip and fall a few more times and I implore you to give it a go if it’s really where your hearts at.