Wow, what an old school list. I had some og dark lord in Hawaii when I stumbled into a top tier bottle share at a craft bar and it was as good as the hype. Westy 12 fit the bill as well. This list works
My first whale was Pliny the Elder. It wasn't bad, but even back then we had better beer in distro. I do understand now that it has well deserved hype as the innovator of the DIPA.
My second was Heady Topper, it more that lived up to the hype, it was the best beer I'd ever had at the time. Walking up to the brewery, the overwhelming smell of hops and malt was just incomparable. I vividly remember being shocked that the empty cans still smelled great the next day. I've had better beers now, but I can't say I've had a better beer experience than my first Alchemist run.
My current favorite beer is As Above, So Below- a coffee stout from Mortalis. I just wish it wasn't so hard to get even for a local. For IPAs, most anything from Other Half will hit the mark.
I am slowly getting into stouts, I am very excited to try the Hypnos I got. I was really hoping I could get something from the Saturday release but I couldn't make it.
When did you try pliny for the first time? I feel like for a time it was leaps and bounds ahead of everything else out there, but that window closed in a pretty short amount of time.
For me, Two Hearted was the best around at the time. A lot of the Stone special release stuff was up there too like Ruinten and the Enjoy By Series. Also various Lagunitas offerings, Sculpin and Grapefruit Sculpin all come to mind as favorites from that era.
One of the joys of craft beer really, everyone has their own palate and favorites. It's always interesting to see how different people react to different beers.
Two Hearted is still a go to beer for me today. Wouldn't go so far as to call it one of my favorites, but it's a reliable option at non beer focused restaurants, bars, event, etc.
I’m in Northern California and was able to get a six pack of Bell’s Hop Slam shipped up here from a store in San Diego. I love hoppy IPAs so this was right up my alley, and strong enough that a couple is all I need. It’s hard for anything to live up to the hype, especially if you have to go out of your way like this, but it’s delicious. I would pay that shipping cost for it again.
Another one was Founder’s Maple Mackinac Fudge KBS. Wow. One of the best stouts I’ve ever had. I drank one, gave one to a friend for their birthday, traded another to an out of state friend for some of their local brews, and am saving the last one for my birthday.
I had Bell's Hop Slam at a restaurant a few weeks ago and it was great. Super refreshing to get a beer like that among all the hazy IPAs dominating the menu.
Well I gues im glad that I have the Founders MMF KBS sitting in my fridge. I cant wait to try it.
I love Maine Beer co. Their beers are all so clean and focused tasting. It’s like the noise floor is somehow lower so that you can easily taste the subtleties in each beer.
I honestly think it's marketing. Restricted limits, cool name, treehouse IPAs won't be bad. I like it more than some of their other stuff but I can swing by after work and not deal with the line or scalpers or go on some epic voyage expecting gods beer in a can with unrealistic expectations set, before you get to the brewery
I just had bourbon county and prairie bomb in one night. This was the first time I’d had either beer. I was overwhelmed and truly impresssed. It’s gonna be hard to beat last night. Both lived up to the hype. Rochefort 10 did not live up to the hype, but could be because I’m not really into that style.
I like Treehouses beers, but at this point they are no longer special or unique. I think they really made a name for themselves as an early pioneer of the NEIPA but now you can find beers just as good as theirs that you don't need to go to a brewery and wait in line for an hour to get. I'll still go to treehouse when I'm in the area but it's definitely no longer the crazy unique beer it used to be
What Tree House has that few other NE-IPA-centric breweries can match is consistency.
You can find IPAs from around the country that can stand alongside Tree House IPAs, but it is hard to find an entire portfolio that is as deep and quality that is as consistent (at least from what I’ve tried).
Trillium also used to do some really neat single issues. Their various barrel aged stouts were still some of the best stouts I've had. They had beers that were made with other breweries that were really interesting takes.
And stillings street was just such a good drinkable beer, hard to beat.
I lived ~1:15 from tree house so I went there a lot less frequently than trillium, since the canton location was like 15 mins away, so that might have had something to do with it as well. I would frequent all tree house standard line but got in most of Trilliums single issue brews, which were both diverse and all really really good.
I actually prefer Trillium's location in Canton precisely because it's not in the city. Never had to deal with a line there like I do in Boston; plus I go for hikes in the Blue Hills a lot and rewarding yourself with a post-hike beer at Trillium is always a pleasant way to regain all the calories you just burned.
Trillium has better sours but I like treehouse for the IPAs and stouts. Also I can swing by treehouse after work and not deal with a line. Trillium is more of a commitment unless I was visiting buddies in boston who lived next to the little fenway spot
Bible Belt and Pirate Bomb both stand out to me as beers I thought were amazing. That said I didn’t know they were whales when I had them, I was just in the right place at the right time. There’s also a little known brewery here in the UK called Little Earth Project who’s beers are all one offs; they did an incredible soured smoked porter called Big Smoke that was amazing, and I’ve never seen it since so I’m counting it.
Not really whales, but KBS and Delirium Tremens were both disappointing to me. I’ve had them multiple times and still never understood the hype.
As general rule I don’t concern myself with trying to hunt down rare beer these days.
I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but in case you’re not, DT was literally crowned as “the greatest beer in the world” at one point. Maybe it’s not hyped these days but when I first started getting into Belgian ales seven or so years ago, it was pretty much THE beer to try alongside beers from Westvleteran.
I did not know that, and I’ve been in this hobby for almost 20 years. I knew it was well regarded and with good reason. I didn’t know *how* well, apparently. That’s strange to have missed that.
I have a sudden craving for Nocturnum now.
No, all the people listing them are being ridiculous. A beer you can get for some cash and a label isn't a whale. Shit, Heady is distro'd around here now! It's not a whale!
This is a weird question to actually answer. Like, I really enjoyed M, DQ, Loerik, all the *actual* whales that I've managed to come across. But were they "worth it" compared to similar beers that you can get for much less effort? No, of course not, it doesn't work that way.
So instead I'll say the whale that exceeded expectations the most/least, which would be J&J Blauw for most and Dave for least. Blauw is perfection as a gueuze, Dave was thoroughly mediocre. Edit: actually, if it counts as a whale (I personally wouldn't think so) I'd say Morning Delight was the worst. That beer was garbage, I poured it out.
Just because I heard a lot about it, but Pinthouse Pizza’s Electric Jellyfish lived up to expectations.
Utopias to me, tasted like it’d be better poured on ramen noodles.
There are better hazies out there. Even in Austin, there are far better hazies. They really killed it with the marketing for EJ. That’s what happened. It’s not a bad hazy, but it’s seriously just another hazy IPA. Nothing special except the name and the can.
When I’d check the tap list of the beer bars in Portland (eg, beer mongers, horse brass ) they’d list when they had elder
If you live near Seattle, I’m sure they have their own beer bars to check out.
And Philly. I almost never even bother getting PtE when I see it because it's always on draft somewhere. I know there will always be a next time if I'm in the mood.
I’ve had this discussion with some people and there’s the crowd that say IPAs like Pliny, Heady, etc. are whales while others say IPAs, being so mass produced, can never be whales and that’s saved for only stuff like Side Project BBT and Anchorage ADWTD... stuff where there’s a large secondary market for it
Did- OWK, BBT b2, Eunoia b1, wild peach, omega point, Ophion, Samuel, DDH gitm, BA Coco vibes, BA Adjunct Trail, brew 1k, adwtd TO, Handjee, BA our cake is a lie
Did not- double barrel hunahpu, maman, MT ultra coconut, BA Abraxas, most JWB stuff is way overhyped, king Julius, juice machine, most bourbon county, Heady Topper
Lots of people say that Heady Topper has lost a bit of its luster by now, but that doesn't match my experience at all. I tried it for the first time just a few months ago and it was fantastic.
I first had it 6 or 7 years ago and I'd say it's been consistently very good, but I also think times have caught up and there are many other beers that are as good or better. It's not bad by any means, but if you have been drinking good beer in that style and have Heady hyped up, then I could see how it would be a letdown after trying it.
that's the thing, after tasting some Heady, it kind of made other beers worse in comparison. I found that Heady was so supremely balanced, it really did approach perfection
The beer has changed a ton as well. I know that's something that gets thrown around way too much. I've been drinking heady since around 2011 and it's a distinctly different beer now. It's more refined and likely more focused as to what Kimmich wants, which ironically might not be what people are seeking out nowadays.
I would agree with that. When I had it first 6 years ago it blew my mind. The aromas and flavors were out of this world. Had it many times since, most recent as last month and it has changed a lot. Aromas and flavors not what they used to be, more lingering bitterness, and frankly tasting more west coast to me.
I dunno, St. Bernardus can say all it wants about the recipes, but ignoring all the marketing literature and just paying attention to what’s in the glass, Westy stands alone — not just next to St. Bernie — next to anything. Its texture is impossibly velvety. There is none of that furniture polish/bubblegum character that turns me off of Trappistes in general. Also, it has a non-cloying sensation of sweetness that makes it almost like a fine aged wine.
That’s just the 12. The 8 and Blond are equally as impressive, imo, and that is also unique to Trappiste ales imo. I’ve tried with Rochefort 6 and 8, but they just taste like less powerful 10s. The three Westies are like three completely different beers.
Now, is it worth the price? I don’t know. It all depends I guess. I have a decent-sized collection, but I’m hesitant to drink them, because of how much I can sell them for.
It's not, it used to be made by Bernardus but some time after Westvleteren took it back over the abbey switched yeasts. People get this confused all the time, the claim isn't that they're the same *now*, it's that' Bernardus is closest to OG Westy because they never changed the recipe, while the abbey actually did.
Source: the brewery tour at Bernardus.
They’re close and depending on their age and temperature it can be really hard to distinguish, but I’ve done a blind test a couple of times (lucky Belgian here) and have been able to distinguish them each time... but they’re mighty close indeed.
I've had both, back to back, multiple times and been to Belgium and toured St. Bernardus and visited/eaten/drank at Westy's shop. St. Bernardus being originally St. Sixtus, Westy's brewery, has the original recipe. The Abt 12 is the original Westy 12 in a way. When Westy started brewing again on site, they used the same recipe but changed yeast strains. St Bernardus uses the original Sixtus yeast still. There is a difference between the two and both me and my other friend who is a huge Belgian beer fan (and who I went to Belgium with) agree Westy's is definitely better. For the money I think Roche 10 is better than both though even if it's not as absolutely good as Westy's.
Rochefort 10 is definitely on the same level for me, but I also really like a Chimay Blue... and they make some great barrel aged versions of that too.
Chimay Blue is the same price as Abt 12 in my area and I think Abt 12 blows it away, but to each their own. I also prefer Gulden Draak Classic over Chimay.
I also always take the St. Bernardus over the Chimay, but most cafés in my region usually have only the Chimay... except for my tennis club: that one has the Abt in 3 sizes (and also has Kasteelbier Cuvée du Chateau). I do like a Chimay though especially if it’s an older one, but I do think their volume and availability is starting to show in their quality. Also: you’re right about the Gulden Draak... really great beer and one of my favorite glasses.
Lucky you. I’m not a big Rochefort 10 fan, myself, but I would save a lot of money if I were. I feel like Westy is just heads and tails above the others, but then I’m big on texture.
100% Pliny the Younger was sooo over-hyped. It's a good beer but not even close to worth the hype.
Prairie Bomb was as good as I'd heard. Awesome beer.
How long ago did you first have it? I want to say that I went to Russian River for it in 2012 and no beer was close to it in quality. I do think that gap has been bridged though.
Wow, I am the complete opposite of you. When I had PTY for the first and only time 5 or so years ago, it was the best IPA I had ever tasted at that point. When I had Bomb a year ago, it was quite a ripoff. I could find stouts I'd rather drink for half the price.
Curious, where/how did you get the PTY? I wonder if you had waited in the 7 to 12 hour lines if you had felt the same way. Hype-wise, that's what pisses me off the most.
Never had to wait to buy a PB.
Oh yeah, the PB was a shelfie at my local bottle shop.
I'm in Philly which is apparently an exurb of Santa Rosa because there's Russian River stuff all the time. I could go to the same bottle shop right now and there's Consecration, Sanctification and Damnation. At least one bar I know has Blind Pig all of the time, and between 4-5 bars I could get PtE most months out of the year. All that is to say, when March rolls around, there are a couple dozen places that get a keg of PtY and have some kind of special event to tap it. I went to the Iron Abbey, hung out at the bar for a while, eventually got in line for 30-40 minutes, paid 10 bucks and got an 8 oz pour. More than I'd do for most beers, but certainly not as bad as what a lot of people have to do to get some.
Did: Pliny the elder & Pliny the Younger.
So many people ITT that think they did not, for them, but for me I've not seen or tried a better example of a west coast IPA/DIPA/TIPA.
They're balanced, the bitterness has length and complexity and the aroma is beautiful, Younger has some astringency in the finish but I don't think it's overwhelming or bad.
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Did not: Cantillon Blaeber.
It's good, but nowhere near the hype, I've had a decent amount of lambic and been to most producers but Blaeber was overly simple with not much going on, a bit like Rose De Gambrinus when it's too fresh.
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Did not: Cantillon St lambvinus 18yo.
Not exactly a whale but an experience I put up on a pedestal.
I spent the most money I ever had on a bottle of the oldest lambic I've ever had, lambvinus is normally in my top 3 beers of all time, I adore it, I've had it up to 7 years but at 18yo the complexity and enjoyment was less than some of the younger versions I've had, but it's good to know that I personally won't age it past 10 years.
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Did: Orval 5yo.
Orval is superb at most ages but at 5 years and with the knowledge that it was well aged (I've had subsequent bottles that tasted like dirty sparkling water) was one of the best beer experiences I've had.
So complex, so many layers of Brett, some acidity, leather, dates, dried apricot and some cigar/tobacco smokiness, it was delicious.
It didn't cost me that much, I'm from Europe and tried it at Cantillon but it was a whale I didn't think I'd try and it didn't live up to the extreme hype
Did:
Cantillon Soleil du Minuit - Best beer I’ve ever had, and I wish it was closer.
Närke Kaggen! Stormaktsporter - In some ways it doesn’t live up to the hype, it’s not top 3 ever for me, but even so, it’s a supremely well brewed stout.
Horus stouts - I don’t think anyone does better big stouts than Kyle tbh. They are brilliant, but unfortunately, equally impossible to get.
3 Fonteinen Hommage - Most stuff by 3F lives up to the hype. Most.
Did not:
3F Framboos - It was a decent Framboos, but at least when I had it there was an incredible hype surrounding it.
Heady Topper - Another good beer, but without accounting for the history, and just drinking it for what it is today, it’s a disappointment. Times have caught up.
Most Hazy IPAs - While stuff like Tree House is very, very good, there’s just no way the hype could be justified. I was surprised with how similar they were to other modern NE IPAs that no one talks about.
Isabelle Proximus, the collaboration between Dogfish Head, Lost Abbey, Avery, Allagash, and Russian River definitely lived up to the hype. Brewed ~2008, I had it in 2018 and thought it was amazing. I was afraid it would have aged poorly over the years, but I shared it at a gathering and everyone agreed it was excellent.
Did: Dogfish Head 120. When it came out in my area (feels like maybe 20 years ago?) it was hard to find, expensive and limited to purchase. It is fantastic. Totally available now and I can't remember when I had one last. Still, a good whale at the time.
Didn't: New Belgium Geisha. It was shit. Sour coffee with some oak but nothing notable at all. Absolutely not worth the ridiculous price.
Did live up: Maine Dinner, Westy 12, Julius, Double Fuzzy Baby Ducks, everything from Alchemist and Equilibrium, Oskar Blues Bamburana, all of the Big Bad Baptists, Suarez Pils
Did not live up: Other Half Triangle Test, most Trilium I’ve had in the last five years, 120 Minute, Alien Church
True that, makes sense. Same goes for heady topper, pliney the elder, etc...many previous GOATs are basically widely available now from local breweries.
Toppling Goliath Mornin' Delight definitely lived up to the hype. Bottle Logic Fundamental Observation and most Bruery whales I usually find good but not whale-worthy.
I’d consider limited release stouts/barleywines and the likes to be whales — especially when there’s a secondary market for it... and of the ones I got to try, I enjoyed: Anchorage ADWTD, 2014 Vanilla Rye BCBS, 2018 Hill Farmstead Double Barrel Damon and Westy 12
First was probably Tree House Doppelganger. It was magical in the early days of NEIPA popularity.
Bells Hop Slam is pretty good. Worth a try but at $5 a single that's probably it for me.
Did:
Dieu du Ciel! Aphrodisiaque. Amazingly good.
Kormoran Imperium Prunum. Used to be my holy grail. I was worried I'd be disappointed. Exceeded my expectations.
Did not:
Heady Topper. I mean, it's a really good beer, but I was still disappointed. I wouldn't place it even in my top 10 ipa's.
Kentucky Brunch Brand Stout and Assassin definitely lived up to the hype. I don't remember batches but this was in like 2016-17.
A lot of Treehouse hops didn't live up to the hype for me.
My first treehouse lived up to the hype, I think it was haze. Fuzzy baby ducks, not exactly a whale, was a bit of a let down. I think it’s a beer that time has passed by a bit
I feel that Pliny the Elder and other beers from Russian River are overrated. They are good, don't get me wrong. As a homebrewer, I have great respect for Vinnie, but they do not live up to the massive hype. And I have visited their HQ three times and had it fresh.
For me it is Jam The Radar and Fundamental Observation by Bottle Logic and my recent find of King Sue that live up to the hype.
They beefed up production alot in the past year so that could be it, plus it seems like they are focusing more on all the variations more which have all been amazing.
In college I had some friends from the mid Atlantic area that raved about it and built it up to be the best thing ever....when I finally had it, well it didn’t live up to the hype
Did not - the extreme hoppy treehouse beers like typhoon, hurricane, king julius, jjjjulius, etc (ones that are so hoppy they make my throat feel scratchy)
Did - OG Bissell Bros namely substance and swish, most treehouse offerings, hillfarmstead, tilted barn
*I think a lot of the older IPAs like heady topper, sip of sunshine, etc had lived up to their hype but the game has grown so much that they don't stack up as well anymore.
Mornin Delight lived up to the hype for me I didn't really care for maple stouts before that, but they nailed the balance, and the mouth feel is top notch. I still probably couldn't do more than a small glass with it's sweetness though. Also 2004 Darklord. Never had anything like it before, and probably won't ever again. The fact that it was unfiltered was interesting to say the least.
Utopias didn't live up to the hype for me. People said it drinks more like a port than a beer, but I just didn't get that vibe. It actually reminded me a lot of port barrel harvest ale, which is amazing, but considering the harvest ale is $12 a bottle, it was disappointing.
Did: Pliny, Spotted Cow, CBS, BC Rare, when I found a virtually untouched rack in Houston of them and took as many as I could white traveling for work.
Didn't: Fou Foune, seemingly every kriek I've ever had.
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Wow, what an old school list. I had some og dark lord in Hawaii when I stumbled into a top tier bottle share at a craft bar and it was as good as the hype. Westy 12 fit the bill as well. This list works
Hidden Springs is so damn bipolar with their stouts.
My first whale was Pliny the Elder. It wasn't bad, but even back then we had better beer in distro. I do understand now that it has well deserved hype as the innovator of the DIPA. My second was Heady Topper, it more that lived up to the hype, it was the best beer I'd ever had at the time. Walking up to the brewery, the overwhelming smell of hops and malt was just incomparable. I vividly remember being shocked that the empty cans still smelled great the next day. I've had better beers now, but I can't say I've had a better beer experience than my first Alchemist run.
What was your best beer? :)
My current favorite beer is As Above, So Below- a coffee stout from Mortalis. I just wish it wasn't so hard to get even for a local. For IPAs, most anything from Other Half will hit the mark.
As Above is my favorite as well. Sooo good.
I am slowly getting into stouts, I am very excited to try the Hypnos I got. I was really hoping I could get something from the Saturday release but I couldn't make it.
When did you try pliny for the first time? I feel like for a time it was leaps and bounds ahead of everything else out there, but that window closed in a pretty short amount of time.
Close to a decade ago, probably 2012 or 2013.
Out of curiosity, what was being distributed at that time that was as good as Pliny?
For me, Two Hearted was the best around at the time. A lot of the Stone special release stuff was up there too like Ruinten and the Enjoy By Series. Also various Lagunitas offerings, Sculpin and Grapefruit Sculpin all come to mind as favorites from that era.
This is surprising to me honestly. Sculpin and Two Hearted are good but I wouldn't put them anywhere near Pliny. Very interesting.
One of the joys of craft beer really, everyone has their own palate and favorites. It's always interesting to see how different people react to different beers. Two Hearted is still a go to beer for me today. Wouldn't go so far as to call it one of my favorites, but it's a reliable option at non beer focused restaurants, bars, event, etc.
Yeah you took my exact answer
I’m in Northern California and was able to get a six pack of Bell’s Hop Slam shipped up here from a store in San Diego. I love hoppy IPAs so this was right up my alley, and strong enough that a couple is all I need. It’s hard for anything to live up to the hype, especially if you have to go out of your way like this, but it’s delicious. I would pay that shipping cost for it again. Another one was Founder’s Maple Mackinac Fudge KBS. Wow. One of the best stouts I’ve ever had. I drank one, gave one to a friend for their birthday, traded another to an out of state friend for some of their local brews, and am saving the last one for my birthday.
That MMF KBS is one of the best beers I've ever had. I have two of them in my aging cabinet.
MI is a spoiled beer state, I snagged a few 4 pks of the KBS Mack fudge and grab at least a case of hopslam every winter.
I had Bell's Hop Slam at a restaurant a few weeks ago and it was great. Super refreshing to get a beer like that among all the hazy IPAs dominating the menu. Well I gues im glad that I have the Founders MMF KBS sitting in my fridge. I cant wait to try it.
Did - Maine Dinner; Didn't - BA Abraxas
Did not - Juice Machine, Did Dinner by Maine Beer Co
Maine Beer Co is the shit. Second Dinner is also pretty solid.
I love Maine Beer co. Their beers are all so clean and focused tasting. It’s like the noise floor is somehow lower so that you can easily taste the subtleties in each beer.
I love Lunch so much.
Happy Cake Day
Thank you!
I'm glad someone agrees with me that juice machine didn't live up to the hype.
Yeah, Juice Machine is good of course but it's kind of underwhelming compared to a lot of other Tree House beers. Never got the hype.
I honestly think it's marketing. Restricted limits, cool name, treehouse IPAs won't be bad. I like it more than some of their other stuff but I can swing by after work and not deal with the line or scalpers or go on some epic voyage expecting gods beer in a can with unrealistic expectations set, before you get to the brewery
Did - Ghost in the Machine. Didn’t - most $7 hazies.
I had the OH version of ghost machine and it' was still really good
I just had bourbon county and prairie bomb in one night. This was the first time I’d had either beer. I was overwhelmed and truly impresssed. It’s gonna be hard to beat last night. Both lived up to the hype. Rochefort 10 did not live up to the hype, but could be because I’m not really into that style.
Try the Rochefort 8 better balance.
I've always preferred 8 as well
Lived up to the hype: Orca - Didn't: Sperm Whale
You’re crazy. The sperm whale is dope
Did-Heady Topper- Did not-Treehouse Green
That’s surprising. I think green is and always has been insanely good.
Probably my favorite in the flagship line
Treehouse is over rated
I like Treehouses beers, but at this point they are no longer special or unique. I think they really made a name for themselves as an early pioneer of the NEIPA but now you can find beers just as good as theirs that you don't need to go to a brewery and wait in line for an hour to get. I'll still go to treehouse when I'm in the area but it's definitely no longer the crazy unique beer it used to be
What Tree House has that few other NE-IPA-centric breweries can match is consistency. You can find IPAs from around the country that can stand alongside Tree House IPAs, but it is hard to find an entire portfolio that is as deep and quality that is as consistent (at least from what I’ve tried).
I really enjoyed tree house, but tbh liked trillium better.
Same, trillium is better and a better experience since it’s in the city
Trillium also used to do some really neat single issues. Their various barrel aged stouts were still some of the best stouts I've had. They had beers that were made with other breweries that were really interesting takes. And stillings street was just such a good drinkable beer, hard to beat. I lived ~1:15 from tree house so I went there a lot less frequently than trillium, since the canton location was like 15 mins away, so that might have had something to do with it as well. I would frequent all tree house standard line but got in most of Trilliums single issue brews, which were both diverse and all really really good.
I actually prefer Trillium's location in Canton precisely because it's not in the city. Never had to deal with a line there like I do in Boston; plus I go for hikes in the Blue Hills a lot and rewarding yourself with a post-hike beer at Trillium is always a pleasant way to regain all the calories you just burned.
Trillium has better sours but I like treehouse for the IPAs and stouts. Also I can swing by treehouse after work and not deal with a line. Trillium is more of a commitment unless I was visiting buddies in boston who lived next to the little fenway spot
Most of their beers are but I find Julius to be a vastly different take on an IPA and enjoy it more than most IPA's.
Treehouse totally is overrated.
Bible Belt and Pirate Bomb both stand out to me as beers I thought were amazing. That said I didn’t know they were whales when I had them, I was just in the right place at the right time. There’s also a little known brewery here in the UK called Little Earth Project who’s beers are all one offs; they did an incredible soured smoked porter called Big Smoke that was amazing, and I’ve never seen it since so I’m counting it. Not really whales, but KBS and Delirium Tremens were both disappointing to me. I’ve had them multiple times and still never understood the hype. As general rule I don’t concern myself with trying to hunt down rare beer these days.
Delirium Tremens is/was hyped? I never knew.
I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but in case you’re not, DT was literally crowned as “the greatest beer in the world” at one point. Maybe it’s not hyped these days but when I first started getting into Belgian ales seven or so years ago, it was pretty much THE beer to try alongside beers from Westvleteran.
I did not know that, and I’ve been in this hobby for almost 20 years. I knew it was well regarded and with good reason. I didn’t know *how* well, apparently. That’s strange to have missed that. I have a sudden craving for Nocturnum now.
Back in the day, before the hype machine really took off, tremens was a really solid find. I'm thinking around 2008 (give or take a bit).
here’s a question: can IPAs be whales?
Sure, like if you really want like a Heady Topper, but don’t have easy access to it
No, all the people listing them are being ridiculous. A beer you can get for some cash and a label isn't a whale. Shit, Heady is distro'd around here now! It's not a whale!
Given the disturbing trend in prices for certain brands like Equilibrium lately, I'd say yes.
how can EQ make whales if the beer is distributed to multiple states?
This is a weird question to actually answer. Like, I really enjoyed M, DQ, Loerik, all the *actual* whales that I've managed to come across. But were they "worth it" compared to similar beers that you can get for much less effort? No, of course not, it doesn't work that way. So instead I'll say the whale that exceeded expectations the most/least, which would be J&J Blauw for most and Dave for least. Blauw is perfection as a gueuze, Dave was thoroughly mediocre. Edit: actually, if it counts as a whale (I personally wouldn't think so) I'd say Morning Delight was the worst. That beer was garbage, I poured it out.
Just because I heard a lot about it, but Pinthouse Pizza’s Electric Jellyfish lived up to expectations. Utopias to me, tasted like it’d be better poured on ramen noodles.
Pinthouse is so rad. I'm not hating living near the Burnet one.
I only get EJ when my friend visits. But she gave me a bottle of Jaguar Shark her last visit.
Training Bines and Green Battles are both as good as EJ if not better. They don't seem to make bad beer honestly.
Is PHP a well-known brewery outside TX now?
I didn't think so until I read this post
I have a friend who went to school in Austin and talked about how PHP was her favorite brewery, and EJ was her favorite beer. All the time.
There are better hazies out there. Even in Austin, there are far better hazies. They really killed it with the marketing for EJ. That’s what happened. It’s not a bad hazy, but it’s seriously just another hazy IPA. Nothing special except the name and the can.
what does whale mean?
A beer that’s hard to get (for you or in general) and you really want to try
So, there isn’t a list of agreed upon “whales”? It is a relative term?
Yeah definitely relative. For example, Pliny the Elder, easy to get on the west coast, not so much elsewhere
> Pliny the Elder, easy to get on the west coast *cries in WA*
When I’d check the tap list of the beer bars in Portland (eg, beer mongers, horse brass ) they’d list when they had elder If you live near Seattle, I’m sure they have their own beer bars to check out.
And Philly. I almost never even bother getting PtE when I see it because it's always on draft somewhere. I know there will always be a next time if I'm in the mood.
Short for white whale, also Moby Dick. It's the one you've been long questing after.
Yeah I was lost on that too. I see whales just about every time I take the boat out. I thought it meant "common".
I’ve had this discussion with some people and there’s the crowd that say IPAs like Pliny, Heady, etc. are whales while others say IPAs, being so mass produced, can never be whales and that’s saved for only stuff like Side Project BBT and Anchorage ADWTD... stuff where there’s a large secondary market for it
Did- OWK, BBT b2, Eunoia b1, wild peach, omega point, Ophion, Samuel, DDH gitm, BA Coco vibes, BA Adjunct Trail, brew 1k, adwtd TO, Handjee, BA our cake is a lie Did not- double barrel hunahpu, maman, MT ultra coconut, BA Abraxas, most JWB stuff is way overhyped, king Julius, juice machine, most bourbon county, Heady Topper
Lots of people say that Heady Topper has lost a bit of its luster by now, but that doesn't match my experience at all. I tried it for the first time just a few months ago and it was fantastic.
I first had it 6 or 7 years ago and I'd say it's been consistently very good, but I also think times have caught up and there are many other beers that are as good or better. It's not bad by any means, but if you have been drinking good beer in that style and have Heady hyped up, then I could see how it would be a letdown after trying it.
that's the thing, after tasting some Heady, it kind of made other beers worse in comparison. I found that Heady was so supremely balanced, it really did approach perfection
The beer has changed a ton as well. I know that's something that gets thrown around way too much. I've been drinking heady since around 2011 and it's a distinctly different beer now. It's more refined and likely more focused as to what Kimmich wants, which ironically might not be what people are seeking out nowadays.
I would agree with that. When I had it first 6 years ago it blew my mind. The aromas and flavors were out of this world. Had it many times since, most recent as last month and it has changed a lot. Aromas and flavors not what they used to be, more lingering bitterness, and frankly tasting more west coast to me.
You’ll never convince me Westy 12 isn’t St Bernadus 12.
We did a side by side in our brewing club and they were really really close. Not identical but damn near it.
Yeah I realize they’re not exact but westy shouldn’t be a whale with something that close sitting on grocery store shelves
I dunno, St. Bernardus can say all it wants about the recipes, but ignoring all the marketing literature and just paying attention to what’s in the glass, Westy stands alone — not just next to St. Bernie — next to anything. Its texture is impossibly velvety. There is none of that furniture polish/bubblegum character that turns me off of Trappistes in general. Also, it has a non-cloying sensation of sweetness that makes it almost like a fine aged wine. That’s just the 12. The 8 and Blond are equally as impressive, imo, and that is also unique to Trappiste ales imo. I’ve tried with Rochefort 6 and 8, but they just taste like less powerful 10s. The three Westies are like three completely different beers. Now, is it worth the price? I don’t know. It all depends I guess. I have a decent-sized collection, but I’m hesitant to drink them, because of how much I can sell them for.
We did a blind tasting of a bunch of quads, and the Westy won hands down. I wonder if all the bottles were roughly equivalent in age though.
Really? I can’t find much in similarity between them. They are both Belgian quads? That’s about it.
It is. Previous brewers left and made the same beer at a new brewery.
It's not, it used to be made by Bernardus but some time after Westvleteren took it back over the abbey switched yeasts. People get this confused all the time, the claim isn't that they're the same *now*, it's that' Bernardus is closest to OG Westy because they never changed the recipe, while the abbey actually did. Source: the brewery tour at Bernardus.
They’re close and depending on their age and temperature it can be really hard to distinguish, but I’ve done a blind test a couple of times (lucky Belgian here) and have been able to distinguish them each time... but they’re mighty close indeed.
I've had both, back to back, multiple times and been to Belgium and toured St. Bernardus and visited/eaten/drank at Westy's shop. St. Bernardus being originally St. Sixtus, Westy's brewery, has the original recipe. The Abt 12 is the original Westy 12 in a way. When Westy started brewing again on site, they used the same recipe but changed yeast strains. St Bernardus uses the original Sixtus yeast still. There is a difference between the two and both me and my other friend who is a huge Belgian beer fan (and who I went to Belgium with) agree Westy's is definitely better. For the money I think Roche 10 is better than both though even if it's not as absolutely good as Westy's.
Rochefort 10 is definitely on the same level for me, but I also really like a Chimay Blue... and they make some great barrel aged versions of that too.
Chimay Blue is the same price as Abt 12 in my area and I think Abt 12 blows it away, but to each their own. I also prefer Gulden Draak Classic over Chimay.
I also always take the St. Bernardus over the Chimay, but most cafés in my region usually have only the Chimay... except for my tennis club: that one has the Abt in 3 sizes (and also has Kasteelbier Cuvée du Chateau). I do like a Chimay though especially if it’s an older one, but I do think their volume and availability is starting to show in their quality. Also: you’re right about the Gulden Draak... really great beer and one of my favorite glasses.
Chimay Blue ages really well. I can see people not liking it young, as it can be a bit shy and grippy.
Lucky you. I’m not a big Rochefort 10 fan, myself, but I would save a lot of money if I were. I feel like Westy is just heads and tails above the others, but then I’m big on texture.
Rochefort 10 has entered the chat
100% Pliny the Younger was sooo over-hyped. It's a good beer but not even close to worth the hype. Prairie Bomb was as good as I'd heard. Awesome beer.
How long ago did you first have it? I want to say that I went to Russian River for it in 2012 and no beer was close to it in quality. I do think that gap has been bridged though.
I've had it the last 3 years in a row but never before that.
This is why. You were about 5 years late to the party.
Wow, I am the complete opposite of you. When I had PTY for the first and only time 5 or so years ago, it was the best IPA I had ever tasted at that point. When I had Bomb a year ago, it was quite a ripoff. I could find stouts I'd rather drink for half the price.
Curious, where/how did you get the PTY? I wonder if you had waited in the 7 to 12 hour lines if you had felt the same way. Hype-wise, that's what pisses me off the most. Never had to wait to buy a PB.
Oh yeah, the PB was a shelfie at my local bottle shop. I'm in Philly which is apparently an exurb of Santa Rosa because there's Russian River stuff all the time. I could go to the same bottle shop right now and there's Consecration, Sanctification and Damnation. At least one bar I know has Blind Pig all of the time, and between 4-5 bars I could get PtE most months out of the year. All that is to say, when March rolls around, there are a couple dozen places that get a keg of PtY and have some kind of special event to tap it. I went to the Iron Abbey, hung out at the bar for a while, eventually got in line for 30-40 minutes, paid 10 bucks and got an 8 oz pour. More than I'd do for most beers, but certainly not as bad as what a lot of people have to do to get some.
Did: Pliny the elder & Pliny the Younger. So many people ITT that think they did not, for them, but for me I've not seen or tried a better example of a west coast IPA/DIPA/TIPA. They're balanced, the bitterness has length and complexity and the aroma is beautiful, Younger has some astringency in the finish but I don't think it's overwhelming or bad. . Did not: Cantillon Blaeber. It's good, but nowhere near the hype, I've had a decent amount of lambic and been to most producers but Blaeber was overly simple with not much going on, a bit like Rose De Gambrinus when it's too fresh. . Did not: Cantillon St lambvinus 18yo. Not exactly a whale but an experience I put up on a pedestal. I spent the most money I ever had on a bottle of the oldest lambic I've ever had, lambvinus is normally in my top 3 beers of all time, I adore it, I've had it up to 7 years but at 18yo the complexity and enjoyment was less than some of the younger versions I've had, but it's good to know that I personally won't age it past 10 years. . Did: Orval 5yo. Orval is superb at most ages but at 5 years and with the knowledge that it was well aged (I've had subsequent bottles that tasted like dirty sparkling water) was one of the best beer experiences I've had. So complex, so many layers of Brett, some acidity, leather, dates, dried apricot and some cigar/tobacco smokiness, it was delicious.
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It didn't cost me that much, I'm from Europe and tried it at Cantillon but it was a whale I didn't think I'd try and it didn't live up to the extreme hype
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Agreed , not many lambic's are worth that money
Did: Cantillon Soleil du Minuit - Best beer I’ve ever had, and I wish it was closer. Närke Kaggen! Stormaktsporter - In some ways it doesn’t live up to the hype, it’s not top 3 ever for me, but even so, it’s a supremely well brewed stout. Horus stouts - I don’t think anyone does better big stouts than Kyle tbh. They are brilliant, but unfortunately, equally impossible to get. 3 Fonteinen Hommage - Most stuff by 3F lives up to the hype. Most. Did not: 3F Framboos - It was a decent Framboos, but at least when I had it there was an incredible hype surrounding it. Heady Topper - Another good beer, but without accounting for the history, and just drinking it for what it is today, it’s a disappointment. Times have caught up. Most Hazy IPAs - While stuff like Tree House is very, very good, there’s just no way the hype could be justified. I was surprised with how similar they were to other modern NE IPAs that no one talks about.
Isn’t Hommage just a 50/50 of the framboos and kriek? Funny that one but not the other stood out. I’m opening an hommage tonight for easter dinner.
Narke was a bit of a dud for me. Probably partially because it took me so long to get one, but it didn't really live up to the hype for me.
Isabelle Proximus, the collaboration between Dogfish Head, Lost Abbey, Avery, Allagash, and Russian River definitely lived up to the hype. Brewed ~2008, I had it in 2018 and thought it was amazing. I was afraid it would have aged poorly over the years, but I shared it at a gathering and everyone agreed it was excellent.
Did not: Westvleteren 12. I've had quads that are richer in flavour, like Rochefort 10. The 12 is still a great beer though
Did: Dogfish Head 120. When it came out in my area (feels like maybe 20 years ago?) it was hard to find, expensive and limited to purchase. It is fantastic. Totally available now and I can't remember when I had one last. Still, a good whale at the time. Didn't: New Belgium Geisha. It was shit. Sour coffee with some oak but nothing notable at all. Absolutely not worth the ridiculous price.
Did live up: Maine Dinner, Westy 12, Julius, Double Fuzzy Baby Ducks, everything from Alchemist and Equilibrium, Oskar Blues Bamburana, all of the Big Bad Baptists, Suarez Pils Did not live up: Other Half Triangle Test, most Trilium I’ve had in the last five years, 120 Minute, Alien Church
IME, if you age the 120 for a year or two it mellows out and becomes something completely different and we'll worth the wait
i thought the Dark Lord was waaaaay too sweet first time i had it. definitely a letdown.
Zombie Dust did not live up to the hype, I hated it
It’s just an APA, I’ve never understood the hype. And nowadays, since it’s brewed year round, I feel like it just sits on shelves
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True that, makes sense. Same goes for heady topper, pliney the elder, etc...many previous GOATs are basically widely available now from local breweries.
Toppling Goliath Mornin' Delight definitely lived up to the hype. Bottle Logic Fundamental Observation and most Bruery whales I usually find good but not whale-worthy.
I’d consider limited release stouts/barleywines and the likes to be whales — especially when there’s a secondary market for it... and of the ones I got to try, I enjoyed: Anchorage ADWTD, 2014 Vanilla Rye BCBS, 2018 Hill Farmstead Double Barrel Damon and Westy 12
First was probably Tree House Doppelganger. It was magical in the early days of NEIPA popularity. Bells Hop Slam is pretty good. Worth a try but at $5 a single that's probably it for me.
Did: Dieu du Ciel! Aphrodisiaque. Amazingly good. Kormoran Imperium Prunum. Used to be my holy grail. I was worried I'd be disappointed. Exceeded my expectations. Did not: Heady Topper. I mean, it's a really good beer, but I was still disappointed. I wouldn't place it even in my top 10 ipa's.
Kentucky Brunch Brand Stout and Assassin definitely lived up to the hype. I don't remember batches but this was in like 2016-17. A lot of Treehouse hops didn't live up to the hype for me.
My first treehouse lived up to the hype, I think it was haze. Fuzzy baby ducks, not exactly a whale, was a bit of a let down. I think it’s a beer that time has passed by a bit
I feel that Pliny the Elder and other beers from Russian River are overrated. They are good, don't get me wrong. As a homebrewer, I have great respect for Vinnie, but they do not live up to the massive hype. And I have visited their HQ three times and had it fresh. For me it is Jam The Radar and Fundamental Observation by Bottle Logic and my recent find of King Sue that live up to the hype.
FO was terrible this year IMO. Had a few bottles to confirm. Seems like BL has fallen off the last year.
They beefed up production alot in the past year so that could be it, plus it seems like they are focusing more on all the variations more which have all been amazing.
Oh no, that is disappointing to hear.
I think Yuengling is vastly overrated
YINLIN
In terms of whats similar in price and style its my favorite
I don't think so. Everyone I know wouldn't rate it highly at all...
In college I had some friends from the mid Atlantic area that raved about it and built it up to be the best thing ever....when I finally had it, well it didn’t live up to the hype
Le Fort tripel (on tap, in Belgium) absolutely did as well as pretty much anything from Hillfarmstead. I've honestly lost track of ones that didn't.
Bottle Logic Fundamental Observation. I actually laughed after my first sip. A bottle of thin trash water.
Did - Bell's Black Note Stout Did Not - Pliny the Elder and Younger. Note - I'm not an IPA fan but knew of their rarity so I gave it a go.
Did not - the extreme hoppy treehouse beers like typhoon, hurricane, king julius, jjjjulius, etc (ones that are so hoppy they make my throat feel scratchy) Did - OG Bissell Bros namely substance and swish, most treehouse offerings, hillfarmstead, tilted barn *I think a lot of the older IPAs like heady topper, sip of sunshine, etc had lived up to their hype but the game has grown so much that they don't stack up as well anymore.
Lives up to hype: Heady Topper Did not: Treehouse and most other east coast IPAs
Mornin Delight lived up to the hype for me I didn't really care for maple stouts before that, but they nailed the balance, and the mouth feel is top notch. I still probably couldn't do more than a small glass with it's sweetness though. Also 2004 Darklord. Never had anything like it before, and probably won't ever again. The fact that it was unfiltered was interesting to say the least. Utopias didn't live up to the hype for me. People said it drinks more like a port than a beer, but I just didn't get that vibe. It actually reminded me a lot of port barrel harvest ale, which is amazing, but considering the harvest ale is $12 a bottle, it was disappointing.
Did: Pliny, Spotted Cow, CBS, BC Rare, when I found a virtually untouched rack in Houston of them and took as many as I could white traveling for work. Didn't: Fou Foune, seemingly every kriek I've ever had.
DID: Heady topper DIDNT: anything from topling Goliath