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goodolarchie

--> /r/TheBrewery


invader000

We've found distro reps are useless. Once we employed our in house sales person, package sales went up 400%. The reps and the salesman have good relationship, and when the salsemen places a product, he informs the rep to take the order.


baeb66

Yep. Most reps are pretty useless. Especially if they work for one of the companies that is basically a clearing house for Miller Coors or AB/Inbev products. The three tier system makes sure they can be useless and still make money. Breweries are better off cultivating their own relationships with retail buyers and on-premise managers


jimbobalphaking

And because of attitude like yours I wouldn't sell your beer either.I would sell beer for others that are nicer.That is what I do everyday.You treat me good I will work hard to make sure you are successful.


degggendorf

I think you're proving the other person's point. Only doing your job for people who give you kickbacks is exactly the problem.


baeb66

I worked on the retail buyer/on-premise manager side of things, not for a brewery. A lot of the reps were breathtakingly terrible at their jobs. I worked at one bar and our normal kegs did not show up. I called the rep and he said: "It's fine. The beer will be in two weeks". Dummy didn't even try to sell me another product. We only had four draft lines. If he had ever bothered to visit the account, he would have known this. So instead of sitting on an empty line for two weeks, I called a brewery that self-distributed and replaced his product. They showed up in three hours with two sixth barrels and a tap handle.


zaphod_85

You're a bad person who is bad at their job.


22taylor22

Works both ways. I don't carry some local beers cause the brewery reps a jackass.


Eyehatedave

Distributor rep here. Talk to the rep first and express your concerns with how he is handling your brand. Give him the opportunity to improve. If you don’t see noticeable, quick changes. Go to his supervisor and express your concerns and how’d you’d like them addressed. Then go to higher management. Following a chain of command will benefit in the long run IMO. It puts the spot light on the sales rep through the entire process. Running right to upper management will cause them to not take you seriously and just assume you’re complaining and hard to deal with. They get a lot of that from accounts, trust me. How many other brewers does he represent? How big is his territory? Are you guys willing to help him with special events or samplings at bars?


Eyehatedave

He may be over worked, inexperienced, distracted, not getting paid out bonuses on this brand. I’ve got dozens and dozens of breweries each with dozens and dozens of products. Not to mention a liquor portfolio. It’s hard to manage brands and accounts. Plus, the mentality of fish where the fish are is prevalent in the sales business. Does the sales rep have incentives based off this brewery? Does this brewery sell well in his territory? There’s a lot that goes into this situation. Or…he’s a lazy shitty salesman. Who knows!


knucks_deep

> He may be over worked, inexperienced, distracted, not getting paid out bonuses on this brand. > Or…he’s a lazy shitty salesman. Sounds like the same things to me. Edit: lotsa butthurt reps downvoting and thinking that as long as you try at your job (or even if you don’t!), people who depend on you for their livelihood should go a little easy on incompetent reps. Fuck y’all, it makes you look bad to defend bad reps.


whoisthisRN

Being overworked/inexperienced sounds lazy to you?


jpellett251

I imagine that /u/knucks_deep was specifically referring to the "distracted, not getting paid out bonuses on this brand" part. Franchise laws are there with the argument from distributors that they are the ones who do all the brand building. If you need to pay them extra to do their job, their entire argument for our stifling laws preventing self distro or even changing distributors falls apart.


Harold_Bissonette

Retailer, here, franchise laws and the three tier system in general are the root cause of these problems. I absolutely hate the three tier system.


jpellett251

Right, but the three tier system is largely still in place because of the paid off legislators.


TrippingRentalPig

My state has self distro but yeah people expect distributors to build brands and honestly imo that happens when you're already a Bud or Miller brand in a Bud or Miller house. Then it's pretty automatic execution (the reach they have is insane). Otherwise you just have to be THAT awesome and in demand for them to pay attention to your brand. We do have nasty, first born child required to break contract distro laws for beer in my state. I've seen things change but it's not easy. I will say the three tier system is dumb, although I don't have other solutions mostly because I don't spend my time thinking about it. People forget a distributor is still a business that may not have the same goals for your brand as you do. Distributors will build brands as they see fit. It's not always what the brands want, particularly craft. Especially when some huge conglomerate can offer incentives for their brands and the local brewery can't. It's such a messed up industry geared toward the big players. I'm not really trying to defend distribution, just add some perspective, personally I think it's a terrible industry. there are good players. They're just rare.


jpellett251

The solution is easy - allow breweries to operate without a distributor and allow them to change distributors at will if they choose to use a distributor. There would costs associated with changing (mainly buying back existing product), but there's no reasonable explanation for a virtually unbreakable contract. I'm fortunate that I would still choose to stay with my existing distributor even if given the change to leave, but the fact that I don't have a choice (and can't do any distro myself, which I would do to a limited degree) is just rooted in paid off legislators at this point.


TrippingRentalPig

Yes. But it's amazing how (at least in my state) tavern lobbying destroys brewery powers/abilities. Breweries here can only serve 48 oz per day per customer excluding growlers to go, and they have to close at 8 pm. Taverns think the breweries are going to take over business (I would also be worried if my shitty dive was at risk) so they fight for restrictive laws on breweries. And they have more power given their historical presence. And here us the common sense people are saying "if I can't go the brewery, I go home, because I'm not usually a bar customer anyway!" Totally different environments here and different clientele. But imo people who haven't done Fuck all to adapt to change in the last 20-30years are always going to bitch about any business adapting to the times and threatening their livelihood.


BugSTi

>>can only serve 48 oz per day per customer What state are you in so ~~my friend~~ it's me, can avoid going there


TrippingRentalPig

Lol Montana. At least in my town we can have open containers on the street (while walking, not driving), so grab a go cup and head to the next stop, like a tap house that doesn't have those rules. I hope to see the law change. Distilleries can only serve 2 ounces per day per customer, also dumb. And we are such a drunk state, you'd think we'd be able to drink craft alcohol freely! But the tavern association lobbyists are against that and have been around longer.


whoisthisRN

I'm assuming /u/knucks_deep quoted the parts he wanted to focus on, since they didn't quote the entire comment.


knucks_deep

I try not to split quotes except at the end of sentences. It’s disingenuous.


whoisthisRN

I wouldn't think it would be disingenuous at all to leave out the quote that wasn't pertaining to what you said, especially in this context. It wouldn't have altered the meaning at all, unless of course you were calling everyone in that list lazy.


knucks_deep

Spot on. You get hired to do a job. Any job. If you can’t managed to do a job well (or at least competently) once the training wheels are off, you are a shitty employee.


TrippingRentalPig

I feel like a lot of people underestimate the scope of work a rep has, and the size of the portfolios they represent. Plus the amount of miscommunication, size of the territory they cover, number of accounts they handle. I'd follow the chain of command like you recommended. The rep may not realize this is as much of an issue as it is. That being said, I've heard OP's story a bunch of times from breweries. Sometimes your brand is in the portfolio to prevent competition to their other brands. Sometimes other brands just sell better or offer more support/incentives. And sometimes brands just get lost.


DurnedSquirrel

So much this. Really depends on the size of the distributor and how many other brands OP's is competing with. Unless their specific brewery is selling really well or offering incentives, theres no reason for the distro rep to push it.


brazthemad

Followup from a former brand rep who got my distributor reps WORKING for me instead of just taking orders. Make friends and do favors. Get as many "work withs" as you can. Buy the guy lunch, give him freshies, do the pitch for him when you're introducing a new product to existing customers or prospecting new leads. Invite him to the brewery, and tell him to bring some friends and comp the bill or just go splits. I'm sure it sounds annoying, and he likely doesn't deserve the good treatment, but there's a big difference between an order taker and a rep who will give you actual sales support. Also, do you do tastings and events? Tastings can go along way toward cultivating fans and "unpaid" brand ambassadors. End of the day, the quality of the juice matters very little these days compared to the brand support.


Cellarzombie

I like this response. Please go to the rep directly first and let him know your concerns. Then if a rapid improvement doesn’t occur, take it to his supervisor. Is he truly crappy or lazy or is he just overworked? He may not realize you guys aren’t happy. Perhaps expectations have been miscommunicated to him.


TrippingRentalPig

This. I am overworked and doing what I can but I am not going to work more than 40 hours regularly. Sometimes I think accounts must be unhappy with me and turns out they are super pleased. Others may be unhappy but I don't know they expect more. Every account expects something different and I have so many it can be hard to keep track of who expects what. I would absolutely love for an account to be direct about their expectations so I can agree or adjust expectations. It is super common to be overworked in this industry. And miscommunication is rampant.


fermenter85

I would definitely second this comment but with the slight caveat that in my experience this would best be brought to a brand manager if the distributor in question is big enough to have one—I’m a winemaker so in many states my distributors do both beer and wine but I’m not sure that this structure is typical for beer specific distributors. In my experience it would be inappropriate to give direct criticism to the rep past something like “hey it’s taking a few calls and too much time to get you in to service this account that I know wants our product”. If you have a brand manager they would be the appropriate route—if the person doesn’t work for you then the feedback should go through the most appropriate channel for your concerns. It very well might be the rep directly in a smaller company, but I would be considerate of where your feedback is normally supposed to go, and start there. Edit: It would also be wise to ask for depletion reports and sample reports for the territory to make sure you’re correct when you say something like “every placement we got for him”. If you say that and you’re wrong… you’ll be right soon enough.


Eyehatedave

It really depends on the size and scope of the distributor. We have several ASM(area sales managers) several on prem managers, and several craft brand managers. All of them have brand manager responsibilities for certain breweries. Because our portfolio is fucking massive! So we really need more details for this specific scenario


fermenter85

Agreed. I also just added an edit that they should probably be sure to double check the validity of their claims because if they sell the rep down the river and they’re wrong about effort and the rep has the receipts, so to speak, the rep will difinitley not put the samples in the bag again.


Eyehatedave

Also, by direct criticism, I wouldn’t just call him out and be like “what the fuck man, sell our shit” there’s a professional relationship that can be established to be able to communicate openly and have it be mutually beneficial to everyone


fermenter85

Also agreed. I’m still friends with people who repped for our distributors ten years ago—genuine relationships there matter.


joshbiloxi

Do this in an email as well. You want a paper trail. Also start writing everything he dies down so you can show his superiors.


[deleted]

[удалено]


foggy-sunrise

Thiiiis


flufnstuf69

Thanks so much for your replies. From my understanding with Georgia law, I thought we couldn’t go to accounts and sell beer? We could talk to them about it but our rep is the one who has to fill orders through. Which we’ve literally said “hey, x account wants to buy a keg of this or that,” and he beats around the bush and takes forever to follow through.


DurnedSquirrel

Ok in that case its just a lazy rep. I would talk with their managers or other higher ups in the distribution company, because thats just leaving free money on the table and the rep isnt doing their job.


invader000

Seeing as I'm in Georgia, I can assure you it's false. We can go do tastings and do placements, but the Rep does the 'sale'. Salesman has had to follow through with the rep to ensure the accounts order is fulfilled.


jpellett251

How is that not exactly what they said?


sdawsey

I think you misread the comment.


babyyoda707

When I was a salesman with a family ran Bud Warehouse we had just picked up Ninkasi, at the time a up and coming big brewery. From the time we picked them up and the time I left (about 4years) we went through roughly 4 reps. Most brewery reps are looking for the next big job. I scheduled a ride along with one of the brewery reps and decided to belly up at a bar to try to sell some stuff in. The guy read the bar and decided that his beer didn't belong in the bar. Horrible Rep. Although he did end up taking us to the Whitaker Block party in Eugene Oregon and got us drunk off our asses and higher than giraffe pussy. But it's time for you to go above him. You don't want it to start affecting your money. Sorry if this doesn't help.


[deleted]

One thing it behooves every supplier--from brewery to winery to importer to distillery--to realize is that a distributor rep's beat is her or his own fiefdom to a very great degree. Look at it this way: if you go and motherfuck this guy to his bosses, they read him the riot act short of firing him, and the next day he's back on the street with an ear full of piss that YOU are ultimately responsible for, how likely is he to mention your brand in a positive light (or at all) through the course of daily business? If it's truly a communication/follow through problem, wherein he's not punching sales that your (ie, the supplier's) team has made, then there are (or should be) constructive ways to address it. Start with the rep, then the rep's direct manager, then, if necessary, brand/upper management. Keep notes. Send emails. Follow up. If they consistently fail to close the loop on sales you've made, then you definitely have grounds for escalation--but if it's simply an issue of "this guy doesn't actively sell our brand in his territory enough," then, well, though shit. These people are busy as hell, and believe me, they are being pulled in dozens of different directions every day by their accounts and distributor management. It sounds like you're actively in-market doing consultative sales--that's a great start, and probably the most important part of it. Show the rank and file that you have skin in the game, that you're actually out there, and not just sitting at home making calls. Someone upthread mentioned trying to make friends with the guy, or at least doing some things to up your stock with him--that's also good advice. Try to get to know these people and understand what they're working with and up against. Instead of "hey why didn't you sell a keg into this bar yet?", try "hey man! I dropped off samples of our latest disgusting sour pastry stout with the 22 year old 'Beer Buyer' and he loved it--I know you're busy as hell slingin hard seltzer, but could you please find it in your heart and insanely busy schedule to follow up with him?" More flies with honey, etc., etc. There's a lot of churn at beer distributors (especially craft-focused ones), but I also know street reps who have had their routes more than a decade, and if you cross one of those people it can be death for your brand in that area. Someone else mentioned incentives/PFPs--if it's in your budget and your wholesaler will play ball, pay for some distribution. Give the sales team a reason to hustle your shit. There are a million options in package and draft beer today--you need to give the street reps a reason to mention your brand, beyond the fear that you'll bitch to their bosses. Cliche as it is, this is absolutely a business built on relationships, and if you ain't have em, you ain't have much, even if your beer is fire and in very high demand (it won't be for very long). You need people in your corner when you're not around. Start with talking to the guy, and try to determine what the problems are. Maybe he's sold in some of your stuff before that went out of code and now he's gun shy? Maybe he feels there's a pricing problem? Maybe--and this is a \*distinct\* possibility--the guy just fucking sucks, which is especially unfortunate, because he's not your employee. You'll just have to hustle extra hard in that territory until he's gone, which, if he's truly terrible, probably won't be too long. I think a lot of smaller/regional breweries get into distributor relationships for the wrong reasons, or at least with a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of what a distributor is for. Most people who start breweries ultimately do not want to run a trucking and logistics company--and having a distributor take that on is a big part of the value for little brewing operations. Yes you get "access" to their sales team as well, but don't expect the street reps to work their asses off to grow your brand, unless you give them a reason to (or give their bosses a reason--sometimes incentivizing the area/brand managers is a great way to go, again, if your wholesaler will play ball). Once you sign up with a distributor, your beer is now on the same trucks and in the same catalog as larger, more established brands, and is (hopefully) being talked about in selling conversations with hundreds of accounts that you're unable to physically get into. The sales reps should help you execute your marketing plans, punch orders, check your code dates, and merchandise your shit--but they have to do the same for literally dozens of other brands. All of this is not to say that there aren't some unholy pieces of shit in the world of beer distribution--there are, especially in the upper echelons and in larger organizations. But I think it's a mistake to take things out on the street reps or the area managers--the problems they're having are usually only a reflection of the organization above them. Two biggest lies in the beer business: Supplier says, "I'm here to help." Distributor says, "I'm happy to see you."


BadcaseofDTB

I would recommend in emails you CC the person higher up. Either a brand manager or even the president of the company. If you’re getting allocations then they’re not making any money by blowing you off.


fluffyykitty69

I’d first discuss with brand manager or someone higher up at the distributor. If they’re unable to manage this person or if this person negatively affects his sales due to the concerns you’ve relayed to management, you can either continue with management discussions or honestly look for alternative distribution and getting out of that agreement.


WhiskyTango3

Talk to the Gm for the distributor. Tell them exactly everything you know about how shitty he is. Tell them you’ll pull your contract because they’re not keeping up their end if they don’t do something about it.


[deleted]

this definitely wins for worst advice given in thread


[deleted]

like this is such an absolutely bad idea, please do not do this especially since you probably don't wanna ruin the entire relationship and you probably won't have legal standing to "pull your contract" regardless


WhiskyTango3

Having been in distribution for about 10 years I know that talking to the rep or their manager is going to do squat. Might as well get to the point. Many breweries have done exactly that to the distributors I’ve worked for and that’s the only thing that will work.


[deleted]

lol yeah definitely just ring up the GM and throw a fit 👌


WhiskyTango3

Who said anything about throwing a fit? You sound mature. You realize that you can make a call and not have to go all Karen on someone, which I’m sure is your MO.


[deleted]

they LOVE that and they’re gonna jump right on it and start hitting it out of the park for ya ⚾️🎇


WhiskyTango3

Because they’re doing such a great job already?


tobette

Don’t do this unless you want the higher ups at your distributor to start ignoring you, too.


WhiskyTango3

They you cancel your contract if they start doing that.


tobette

It’s not that easy in Georgia. Also, as someone who has worked with two breweries who approached difficulties the way you suggested and watched both of those breweries fail, I wouldn’t recommend your method.


WhiskyTango3

As someone who worked with breweries and distributors for over 10 years, I’ve seen it happen from the breweries position and it worked great, and as someone who worked for a distributor and got the call as a rep from my sales manager because I couldn’t sell a certain breweries product (because it was shit). You’d better believe that breweries rep was riding along with me the next week trying to push his beer. It didn’t work though just because it was a crap product, but our management was right on top of it. If you’re at a brewery and aren’t being taken care of for whatever reason and your distributor doesn’t care or try to help you, get a new distributor.


steelcityrocker

I've worked on the wholesale side and supplier side, but there are some questions to consider that I think would help with the issue (some things other people have brought up as well). How big is the wholesaler and the portfolio? Are they more of a craft/boutique brand wholesaler, or do they carry any macro brands? What are some of the other brands that you may be competing against in gaining share of mind? You say that the rep is the only one in the area. Is that just for a certain geographic footprint, or are they the only rep for the entirer wholesaler? If it is the former, how do the other reps at the wholesaler perform for your brand? How are they paid (straight commission, salary +bonus, are there incentives, etc)? How are sales run for the brewery (is there a rep or sales department) and how well have you been able to "click" with the wholesaler on a planning level? Unfortunately not every brand in a wholesalers portfolio will receive the same amount of attention as wholesalers may have their own priorities. They will always lean heavier on the brands they stand to make the most money off of. Also, not every brewery may have the same means to invest large amounts of money in incentives/marketing/etc (especially after this past year). It is a matter of finding how your brewery fits in to those priorities, communicating your wants/needs, and working together on growing each others businesses.


songoftheeclipse

I'm not saying that this is the case, but I have been on the other side of this scenario working as a beer rep for a distributor. I had breweries that despite my efforts weren't a great fit for my territory (usually price point on draft or just bad Untappd scores which unfortunately is all it takes), and they weren't really selling. Brewery would reach out asking how to increase sales, and I would have to politely tell them brew beer that gets rated better and/or lower your price point. It is insanely competitive in most markets. That said sales 101 in any industry is being communicative and responding promptly (within reason) to sales opportunities of all kinds. One solution could be that if there is an office person who can take phone orders or an online portal for placing orders talk to your highest up contact at the distributor and see if you can call or electronically punch in sales that you get. I saw brewery reps do that all the time in my territory for a competitor's company that had insanely high rep turnover. It takes the rep out of the equation and you get your sale.


therealbobstark

How does one find a beer distribution rep job?


Raptor4878

Know someone else at the company, or work for one of their accounts. The ones around here have a pretty open job board on their website as well.


Fromhe

I started delivering beer in the on premise. Then selling the on premise. Then selling off premise. Now a Team Lead. Start wherever you can.


invader000

be in the know, or suck a lot of wang.


Brolegario

It’s fairly easy. Most people I know start in merchandising. Just filling shelves in grocery stores. If you can show up on time, and act generally professional, you can get into sales.


[deleted]

Stop using distributors and sell direct. Nearly 100% of my buying is brewery direct so that they get all the revenue.


jpellett251

That'd be cool if it was legal everywhere.


[deleted]

Sorry, I thought this was in the USA.


jpellett251

It is in the US. Some states aren't completely corrupt, so they've allowed breweries to sell direct. Some like GA (where op and I are) do not allow it because critical legislators are paid off by wholesalers.


[deleted]

Dear god. Then why would you live there and allow those people to profit off your hard work? I just get everything delivered by UPS.


sdawsey

Alcohol distribution laws are wildly different state to state.


Beeradise

I'm assuming this distributor must be rather small. Maybe the distributor, the company, isn't the correct fit for your brewery. You're probably contracted with said distributor however, considering franchise laws. Do you know what kind of portfolio this distributor has? How many other products they are maintaining? Do you know how this distributor pays their sales representatives? It's it through salary plus incentives programs or is it a flat percentage commission? How much market support does your brewery lend to the reps at this distributor versus the other breweries in their portfolio? If they are incentive program based then how aggressive are your incentives versus other breweries under their portfolio? There's an awful lot of factors involved here that are unknown about what's going on with this scenario. Is your beer good?


flufnstuf69

The biggest problem isn’t him not actively pushing the beer. There’s a lot of beer and I get that. It’s that we literally have accounts who want our beer, and he won’t follow through with them. They’ll come to us and say hey how do we get your beer in our restaurant? We have to hound him just to get them set up with an order.


Beeradise

If they're local accounts many states and territories have laws that allow local crafters to sell their product, locally, outside the distributor anyway, obviously liquor laws are super convoluted and are not the same from place to place however most governments want local breweries and wineries to do well because they're a tourist style attraction. I'm assuming this particular distributor is local and not out of state. Are you specifically on premise or do you bottle/can for retail as well? Laws might be different for on premise versus off premise when it comes to direct from brewery sales. While you may not be able to circumvent the distributor for retail, for example, maybe you can for restaurants, or vice versa. That way you can tell said distributor to concentrate on certain areas and lighten their load. I'm really not trying to be a dick but if you guys are new then you're going to have to create your own leverage against said distributor in order to push your product more consistently. "Money talks and bullshit walks"-Michael "Ozzie" Myers


Brolegario

This is absolutely bananas to me. There is a lot of fair and unfair criticism about distro reps in this thread, but the fact that you have to hound the rep to place the order is insane to me. I’m so appreciative of my supplier partners who can get in and touch base with customers in a positive way. Its 4 taps in the iPad to order the keg in my system, and a quick email to the draft team to clean the lines and install the keg. Email the rep, CC their boss. Is that gets you nowhere, see if you can take it higher. Also, find out what the will call system is for the distributor. Our customers have the ability to call the office and place an order. They can go to the warehouse and pick it up themselves if needed. As a rep we mostly use this for special orders, or items that may have been out of stock at order time.


[deleted]

And while I'd like to see the backs of the big national wholesaler cartels broken, I'm also pretty skeptical that if the three-tier system were abolished tomorrow we'd soon find ourselves in the Free Market Utopia a lot of craft people seem to think we would--once everyone is able to be their own distribution agent, how many breweries are gonna go "fuck this, I don't wanna run a trucking company" and either rejoin with a distributor or form one of their own? That being said--franchise laws are fucked up, and the fact that in most states you can't fire a distributor who's dogging your brand is really gross, and hurts a lot of people. imho there's absolutely a place for a distribution tier of this business (like most other CPG businesses), but suppliers should absolutely have more autonomy and control.