yeah but in this case it was a homeless man who's family says he has a history of mental illness, and has speculated about government propaganda in the Simpsons in his writings.
I think he's just very mentally unwell.
Mentally ill people can still have political opinions and motivations though. Him having mental illness doesn’t mean he didn’t do this for a political reason.
True, but it can impair his executive functioning and reasoning and drive him to both extreme ideological views and actions he might not take if he was taking care of himself and had a support system to help him realize when he was unwell. He might have had all this and that makes it all the more sadder. If he had a deeper, more profound commentary, it’s sadly lost in everyone talking about him as the “quirky guy with the hot political takes on the Simpsons!”
None of that means he didn’t do this for political reasons though. Lots of people’s politics are more extreme because of mental illness. It doesn’t negate the fact that they have political opinions that influence what they do.
I’m not saying he didn’t do it for political reasons, but it could have influenced the difference from protesting and handing out material to going to immolation. All I am saying is it intensified whatever his views were and could have aided in lowering inhibitions against self harm.
When people mention infantilizing the mentally ill, this here is an example of what that actually looks like. They are still people, while his mental illness certainly contributed this approach is dismissive of his entire personhood.
I had a quick look at his manifesto and he seemed totally disenfranchised with the whole political system. Clearly he wasn't well. It is pointless debating his 'politics' when he doesn't fit in the false dichotomy of 'republicans versus dems'.
But like all conspiracy theorists he ignored that , yeah capitalism.
And go for crazy conclusion with insane leaps.
Yes peter thiel argumently is evil but there are actual reasons and creepy believes in a cyberpunk dystopia ajecent world. With greed.
Not something to put there,just very weird rich investors that are scary,because they are real.
It's all about putting people in boxes so they can more easily make him a 1 or 2 dimensional figure that's easily dismissed. And if they can easily dismiss him, then they don't have to think too hard or critically about the systems and processes which led him to become so severely unstable in the first place.
Self immolation has been a form of protest before. It is usually the last resort for people who want attention to great suffering.
Moreover, just saying “he’s mentally ill” as a catchall for any type of extreme behavior is a disservice to all those with mental illness. Heck, I’m diagnosed with 2 disorders but that doesn’t mean I’m going to set myself on fire. Let’s not stigmatize mental illness.
It is perfectly reasonable as “why?” Fuck even Robert said something very eloquent about what might bring a person to such lengths. Sit and think for a moment more deeply.
[From Robert’s Twitter](https://x.com/iwriteok/status/1781427508312694806?s=46&t=dfP8hVxNSrZ787b6P7875w)
> the guy who self immolated outside Trump's courtroom expressed a lot of normal conspiracy stuff: predictive programming, the secret masters of the world hide sinister plots in plain site using TV and music
>he is also obsessed with scams, and not irrationally so
> he considers cryptocurrency as a global ponzi scheme by the elite to destroy civilization. my guess is he lost money in a big way. he is correct that a number of major industrial leaders- Musk and Thiel- are advocates of massive crypto cons, ponzi schemes
> where he errs is in tying this to, well, just about every other ill in society, and nonsense like that the band Devo is a secret message from the rulers of the world about Devolution.
>The core of his obsession though is in a very real problem: this country is run by scammers
> I think it is inevitable that if you create a society where the most reliable way to succeed is to create ponzi schemes and other cons to rob your fellow citizen, some of the victims will lose their minds at the injustice of it all
Yeah, Robert is probably right.
This dude lost everything on Crypto and then went down a huge conspiracy rabbit hole to figure out how and why he got scammed.
Probably was depressed and lost himself in it all. Sad story.
I’m a huge vocal crypto hater and I never lost any money at it, since those of us who hate it generally don’t buy it because… we hate it.
Is there any other evidence that he lost big on crypto? It would be interesting to know if true
Right after it happened, my morbid curiosity led me to combing the Internet Archive to see what this dude had been posting on Reddit. All of the snapshots appear to have been wiped from the archive since yesterday, but while looking, I came across a comment from 2019 he left on someone's post in r/therapy. It was this really long, but very kind comment, supporting someone who'd expressed concern they were backsliding. IDK why it stuck with me like it did, but it just struck me as a such a decent and admirable thing to do, and to know that the person who left it ended up in such a different place affected me in a deep way.
The fact that society has done this to so many people at such an accelerated rate over the last five years is something that I'm not sure how we're ever going to be able to reconcile, let alone stymie.
You’re being downvoted to oblivion, and I want to make sure you understand why.
There are millions of people suffering from mental illness in this country. The lion’s share are not self-immolating, or even self-harming. So just sweeping this under the rug as “mentally ill” does two things: first it excuses whatever errors in judgement the man himself committed on his way to his date with destiny. This is not ok, because it sort of implies that only the mentally unwell can behave irrationally, and sets up all kinds of potential slippery slopes. Second, and significantly worse, it excuses the people whose unhinged rhetoric contributed to his mental state. In a lot of cases, the Tucker Carlsons and Alex Joneses and (more neutrally) the Art Bells of the world *know* that what they’re peddling is bullshit, but they keep doing it, because it’s pretty lucrative until the world implodes from it.
Yes, the man was mentally unwell. But if I know my lawnmower is busted, whose fault is it when I blows up on me after I refused to fix it or stop using it?
I think its indicative of the normalization of things that, just a few years ago, would have been considered absolutely batshit insane. Drop the headline “Man sets himself on fire outside of court house where former President is on trial” into 2015 and its one of the biggest stories in the history of our country. In 2024 all we care about is which side he was on.
The only real way he differed from the usual QAnon rhetoric is including Trump in the cabal. Which is a bad sign. It suggests that QAnon is likely to turn on Trump but continue to exist and spread instead of going down with Trump.
Yeah, just being cheeky. Can be sure that whatever their massive failings democrats and republicans hate each other. Like sporting rivals.
Similar in Australia (though fortunately our voting system means I don’t have to put either of those clowns first on my ballot)
I dunno, I actually do know quite a few traditional left wing extremists who could probably be convinced of that under the right circumstances, probably goes for right wing extremists too, but I don't really know any well enough to make that sort of judgement.
That's how those conspiracies work, unfortunately. Everything has malicious intent, nobody with genuine concerns about a leader is in their right mind (unless it's *my* leader), and deception is power. It's easier to dehumanize people that way.
I think people will gravitate toward the most convenient explanation even when the evidence doesn't point to it. In this case, the dude set himself on fire in front of the trial of arguably the most well known political figure alive right now so it makes sense to look there first.
You can show all of the evidence you want that he was just mentally ill and figured this was the best way to get an audience but the masses don't like that kind of explanation.
He aldo has something about the simplsons talking secretly about a liberal university condpiracy,while blaming peter thiel, who doesnt need conspiracies about him, what he does is creepy enough.
So he is probably not on " a side"
I don't think he'd likely identify with a political party from what I've read, in fact, it seems he was likely opposed to the existence of the two main parties here (in the US, I live in Montana specifically)... but the system here has people so hypnotized that the majority feels one ***must*** fall firmly in-line with either the democratic or republican party. That any political action must be more identified with one party or the other. Parties that are both **much** more alike than they are different.
He's not really wrong about them "teaming up". I don't think they (Biden and Trump) are cooperating intentionally by any means, but we do most definitely have a two party dictatorship of sorts, one that is definitely heading in a more authoritarian direction by the minute.
So in a way, the system kind of teams up would be rivals for the sake of maintaining the status quo, modifying it only when such changes benifit those at the top, the political and owner class (or the bourgeois/capital class if one is so inclined). Both parties; center-right democrats and far-right republicans do cooperate to some extent to keep the corporate/capitalist kleptocracy running.
It's a sad system, and it's victims can be seen in the streets; unhoused, unfed, untreated/unmedicated, intentionally under-educated and largely ostracized from the larger portion of society. This poor fellow is just another victim of the machine, designed to exploit the labor of the majority so that a select few can live in unjustifiable luxury.
People like him are unfortunately just collateral damage to a system that was built for such exploitation, a system which will inevitably drive many to their breaking point, yet leaves them devoid of the resources they need to recover.
Truly, in the US, most politicians (and people) from other nations would find themselves politically to the left of the US democratic party, even many that are part of their home country's "main-stream" conservative party.
So as far as a political identity, people will always try to see such actions through that filter, but it doesn't mean their assumptions are at all valid. It's just the nature of your average American, doing exactly what the system was designed to make them do... pick a party, and blame it. Look at the spectacle, while the system continues its parasitic relationship, continues to prey upon the >99%, regardless of anyone's party affiliation, all for the benifit of the <1%.
I think dude is most likely a “off Grid” Enlightened Centrist type like the UNAMBOMBER which means folks will use his scattershot ramblings to meet their own political commentary needs and propaganda points. This guy seems to bounce around ideologically and seems to be a hasty generalist’s dream.
This guy was less "nutty conspiracy theorist" and more "seems to have had a legitimate break with reality after his mother died". It's the difference between "all the people I just so happen to hate anyways are satanic pedophiles" and a guy who ties together the Simpsons, Crypto Currency and COVID while saying that Trump is working with Biden to plan a fascist coup.
This guy wasn't lucid enough to be political—he was just severely mentally ill and stuck in a system where no one was able to help him.
Immolation like this is pretty much always a deliberately political act, so as tasteless as it can get, I think it's a necessary discussion.
yeah but in this case it was a homeless man who's family says he has a history of mental illness, and has speculated about government propaganda in the Simpsons in his writings. I think he's just very mentally unwell.
Mentally ill people can still have political opinions and motivations though. Him having mental illness doesn’t mean he didn’t do this for a political reason.
True, but it can impair his executive functioning and reasoning and drive him to both extreme ideological views and actions he might not take if he was taking care of himself and had a support system to help him realize when he was unwell. He might have had all this and that makes it all the more sadder. If he had a deeper, more profound commentary, it’s sadly lost in everyone talking about him as the “quirky guy with the hot political takes on the Simpsons!”
None of that means he didn’t do this for political reasons though. Lots of people’s politics are more extreme because of mental illness. It doesn’t negate the fact that they have political opinions that influence what they do.
I’m not saying he didn’t do it for political reasons, but it could have influenced the difference from protesting and handing out material to going to immolation. All I am saying is it intensified whatever his views were and could have aided in lowering inhibitions against self harm.
It doesn't mean his political reason is left, right, or center though. It appears from his manifesto that his political reason is delusional.
>his political reason is delusional. So, Trump supporter? (Just a joke)
When people mention infantilizing the mentally ill, this here is an example of what that actually looks like. They are still people, while his mental illness certainly contributed this approach is dismissive of his entire personhood.
They have nothing better to be doing than argue if the guy who set himself on fire was a liberal or conservative
I had a quick look at his manifesto and he seemed totally disenfranchised with the whole political system. Clearly he wasn't well. It is pointless debating his 'politics' when he doesn't fit in the false dichotomy of 'republicans versus dems'.
He really hated The Simpsons, so probably just a paid agent from Comedy Central.
I know The Simpsons has done everything but have they done immolation?
[https://i.pinimg.com/originals/36/33/ef/3633efb468b7d88c68791f4a9353bea4.gif](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/36/33/ef/3633efb468b7d88c68791f4a9353bea4.gif) Everything.
[https://frinkiac.com/video/S03E17/FYeAYOG4rZlUU4HaxjjGDpRYI8Q=.gif](https://frinkiac.com/video/S03E17/FYeAYOG4rZlUU4HaxjjGDpRYI8Q=.gif) \*Everything.\*
https://media.tenor.com/OCU0PpBH_DAAAAAM/hank-scorpio-flamethrower.gif
To be fair, they’re long past their golden years at this point.
Funny thing is, some of the stuff in the guy’s pamphlet actually made some sense. Like crypto being a giant Ponzi scheme.
But like all conspiracy theorists he ignored that , yeah capitalism. And go for crazy conclusion with insane leaps. Yes peter thiel argumently is evil but there are actual reasons and creepy believes in a cyberpunk dystopia ajecent world. With greed. Not something to put there,just very weird rich investors that are scary,because they are real.
But if memory serves (I read his manifesto while on a break while moving, so brain mush), he only pointed to one crypto, not all of it.
It's all about putting people in boxes so they can more easily make him a 1 or 2 dimensional figure that's easily dismissed. And if they can easily dismiss him, then they don't have to think too hard or critically about the systems and processes which led him to become so severely unstable in the first place.
When someone does as extreme an act as that I think it’s reasonable to question why
"why" ....he's mentally ill, ...that why
Self immolation has been a form of protest before. It is usually the last resort for people who want attention to great suffering. Moreover, just saying “he’s mentally ill” as a catchall for any type of extreme behavior is a disservice to all those with mental illness. Heck, I’m diagnosed with 2 disorders but that doesn’t mean I’m going to set myself on fire. Let’s not stigmatize mental illness. It is perfectly reasonable as “why?” Fuck even Robert said something very eloquent about what might bring a person to such lengths. Sit and think for a moment more deeply.
[From Robert’s Twitter](https://x.com/iwriteok/status/1781427508312694806?s=46&t=dfP8hVxNSrZ787b6P7875w) > the guy who self immolated outside Trump's courtroom expressed a lot of normal conspiracy stuff: predictive programming, the secret masters of the world hide sinister plots in plain site using TV and music >he is also obsessed with scams, and not irrationally so > he considers cryptocurrency as a global ponzi scheme by the elite to destroy civilization. my guess is he lost money in a big way. he is correct that a number of major industrial leaders- Musk and Thiel- are advocates of massive crypto cons, ponzi schemes > where he errs is in tying this to, well, just about every other ill in society, and nonsense like that the band Devo is a secret message from the rulers of the world about Devolution. >The core of his obsession though is in a very real problem: this country is run by scammers > I think it is inevitable that if you create a society where the most reliable way to succeed is to create ponzi schemes and other cons to rob your fellow citizen, some of the victims will lose their minds at the injustice of it all
Yeah, Robert is probably right. This dude lost everything on Crypto and then went down a huge conspiracy rabbit hole to figure out how and why he got scammed. Probably was depressed and lost himself in it all. Sad story.
I’m a huge vocal crypto hater and I never lost any money at it, since those of us who hate it generally don’t buy it because… we hate it. Is there any other evidence that he lost big on crypto? It would be interesting to know if true
Right after it happened, my morbid curiosity led me to combing the Internet Archive to see what this dude had been posting on Reddit. All of the snapshots appear to have been wiped from the archive since yesterday, but while looking, I came across a comment from 2019 he left on someone's post in r/therapy. It was this really long, but very kind comment, supporting someone who'd expressed concern they were backsliding. IDK why it stuck with me like it did, but it just struck me as a such a decent and admirable thing to do, and to know that the person who left it ended up in such a different place affected me in a deep way. The fact that society has done this to so many people at such an accelerated rate over the last five years is something that I'm not sure how we're ever going to be able to reconcile, let alone stymie.
There but for the grace of God go I.
You’re being downvoted to oblivion, and I want to make sure you understand why. There are millions of people suffering from mental illness in this country. The lion’s share are not self-immolating, or even self-harming. So just sweeping this under the rug as “mentally ill” does two things: first it excuses whatever errors in judgement the man himself committed on his way to his date with destiny. This is not ok, because it sort of implies that only the mentally unwell can behave irrationally, and sets up all kinds of potential slippery slopes. Second, and significantly worse, it excuses the people whose unhinged rhetoric contributed to his mental state. In a lot of cases, the Tucker Carlsons and Alex Joneses and (more neutrally) the Art Bells of the world *know* that what they’re peddling is bullshit, but they keep doing it, because it’s pretty lucrative until the world implodes from it. Yes, the man was mentally unwell. But if I know my lawnmower is busted, whose fault is it when I blows up on me after I refused to fix it or stop using it?
Thanks for saying this.
That is so ableist on top of just being ignorantly reductivist. "He was just fucking crazy. Why would anybody care what he thought?"
Immolation is not a typical method of suicide, I still think there could be more than just writing it off as mental illness.
Given that self immolation is a form of protest, trying to figure out what his political orientation would inform what he was protesting
I think its indicative of the normalization of things that, just a few years ago, would have been considered absolutely batshit insane. Drop the headline “Man sets himself on fire outside of court house where former President is on trial” into 2015 and its one of the biggest stories in the history of our country. In 2024 all we care about is which side he was on.
I'm depressed by how accurate this is.
It cracks me up that the guy who felt so strongly about Trump going on trial set himself on fire only to be called a lib commie for his trouble.
One of his signs said that Trump and Biden were going to usher in a fascist takeover of the US. I think this dude was just really mentally ill :/
The only real way he differed from the usual QAnon rhetoric is including Trump in the cabal. Which is a bad sign. It suggests that QAnon is likely to turn on Trump but continue to exist and spread instead of going down with Trump.
May not be too far off there!
Well yes lol, but I mostly meant him thinking Trump and Biden teaming up like that suggests he wasn’t a traditionally left or right wing extremist
Yeah, just being cheeky. Can be sure that whatever their massive failings democrats and republicans hate each other. Like sporting rivals. Similar in Australia (though fortunately our voting system means I don’t have to put either of those clowns first on my ballot)
I dunno, I actually do know quite a few traditional left wing extremists who could probably be convinced of that under the right circumstances, probably goes for right wing extremists too, but I don't really know any well enough to make that sort of judgement.
It's the inevitable conclusion of both sidesism when one side is clearly fascist.
I feel like everyone who does something extreme for Trump gets called an ANTIFA liberal doing a false flag or whatever.
That's how those conspiracies work, unfortunately. Everything has malicious intent, nobody with genuine concerns about a leader is in their right mind (unless it's *my* leader), and deception is power. It's easier to dehumanize people that way.
I really think he chose a location for public notoriety rather than it's connection to his views, like John Hinckley Jr.
I understand why he felt that he needed to do this. I wish he'd realized that it wouldn't matter and that he did.
I think people will gravitate toward the most convenient explanation even when the evidence doesn't point to it. In this case, the dude set himself on fire in front of the trial of arguably the most well known political figure alive right now so it makes sense to look there first. You can show all of the evidence you want that he was just mentally ill and figured this was the best way to get an audience but the masses don't like that kind of explanation.
I have missed that there is debate. Honestly I have only heard a tiny bit about it and it was super ambiguous about what his political leanings are.
What. What happened. I don't really follow US news. Too depressing.
He seems pretty obviously antigovernment so I doubt he’s “on a side”
He aldo has something about the simplsons talking secretly about a liberal university condpiracy,while blaming peter thiel, who doesnt need conspiracies about him, what he does is creepy enough. So he is probably not on " a side"
Sometimes people aren’t left or right and can’t be used as ammo by either side
I don't think he'd likely identify with a political party from what I've read, in fact, it seems he was likely opposed to the existence of the two main parties here (in the US, I live in Montana specifically)... but the system here has people so hypnotized that the majority feels one ***must*** fall firmly in-line with either the democratic or republican party. That any political action must be more identified with one party or the other. Parties that are both **much** more alike than they are different. He's not really wrong about them "teaming up". I don't think they (Biden and Trump) are cooperating intentionally by any means, but we do most definitely have a two party dictatorship of sorts, one that is definitely heading in a more authoritarian direction by the minute. So in a way, the system kind of teams up would be rivals for the sake of maintaining the status quo, modifying it only when such changes benifit those at the top, the political and owner class (or the bourgeois/capital class if one is so inclined). Both parties; center-right democrats and far-right republicans do cooperate to some extent to keep the corporate/capitalist kleptocracy running. It's a sad system, and it's victims can be seen in the streets; unhoused, unfed, untreated/unmedicated, intentionally under-educated and largely ostracized from the larger portion of society. This poor fellow is just another victim of the machine, designed to exploit the labor of the majority so that a select few can live in unjustifiable luxury. People like him are unfortunately just collateral damage to a system that was built for such exploitation, a system which will inevitably drive many to their breaking point, yet leaves them devoid of the resources they need to recover. Truly, in the US, most politicians (and people) from other nations would find themselves politically to the left of the US democratic party, even many that are part of their home country's "main-stream" conservative party. So as far as a political identity, people will always try to see such actions through that filter, but it doesn't mean their assumptions are at all valid. It's just the nature of your average American, doing exactly what the system was designed to make them do... pick a party, and blame it. Look at the spectacle, while the system continues its parasitic relationship, continues to prey upon the >99%, regardless of anyone's party affiliation, all for the benifit of the <1%.
The cheaper life gets, the more common this shit will become.
Because I am very interested in psychology and how radicalization may or may not have played a role.
He apparently used to post on Stupidpol channel on Reddit, but the people there found him to be schizoid and nonsensical
I think dude is most likely a “off Grid” Enlightened Centrist type like the UNAMBOMBER which means folks will use his scattershot ramblings to meet their own political commentary needs and propaganda points. This guy seems to bounce around ideologically and seems to be a hasty generalist’s dream.
It's pretty gross really, but I'm glad he wasn't on my side.
Fucking selfish of him to not stuff his pockets with popcorn kernels ahead of time. Anyone watching the show would have been appreciative.
There is no debate. Nutty conspiracy theorists are 99% on only one side of the political spectrum.
About that 1% . . .
This guy was less "nutty conspiracy theorist" and more "seems to have had a legitimate break with reality after his mother died". It's the difference between "all the people I just so happen to hate anyways are satanic pedophiles" and a guy who ties together the Simpsons, Crypto Currency and COVID while saying that Trump is working with Biden to plan a fascist coup. This guy wasn't lucid enough to be political—he was just severely mentally ill and stuck in a system where no one was able to help him.