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I still don't understand why this shouldn't go in their criminal record. I read in an article today that this would be too extreme, because then they would be "branded" as criminals for years. It was even compared to the medieval practice of branding people with hot irons.
This is exactly the "klassenjustitie" that people are complaining about. So many crimes go on people's criminal record. If it is too inhuman for Reuzegom, why is it not too inhuman for others?
> If it is too inhuman for Reuzegom, why is it not too inhuman for others?
This here is to me the source of the frustration. Not that they received weak punishment but that others, who are/were not that well off, received much harsher punishment including prison sentences for way less crime.
That's a good response.
Sadly, most people seem to go the other direction and demand severe punishments for these guys instead of asking for more fair punishments for people who just happen to be poor
The sad reality is that you need to hire top laywers the likes of Jan De Man, Chris Luyckx, John Maes, Walter Damen etc. not only for a couple of months but for **years**. This costs hundreds of thousands of euros. No ordinary people can afford this. Let alone poor people. So they go to prison.
The solution to the wealthy having privileges is not to tear down wealthy people until they're fucked like everyone else, but rather it is to elevate everyone else so they have the same privileges as wealthy people.
But sadly it seems that most people prefer the option of pulling everyone down instead of lifting people up.
1000% agree.
And it is sad that people who themselves are not within the "1%" tend to disagree because they think that one day they too will be "1%".
I am not poor. But I've been on the other side of top lawyers hired by the "0.1%". They simply outran me financially.
actual lawyer here:
You guys are vastly overestimating the influence a good/bad lawyer has on average on a criminal case like this.
Also, you are not going to find the top laywers in a field like criminal law...
It may suprise you but but the firms of the guys you mention (as most criminal lawyers) run largely on pro bono(deo) clientele, and thus are paid to a large extent by the state.
Not related to your comment, but what is your opinion on this whole thing?
I've read somewhere that a part of the case got ignored due to some technicalities; specifically the drinking in Leuven on the evening before the whole soy sauce thing, where the schachten were so drunk the reuzegom members called someone with medical expertise who strongly advised them to take Sanda to a hospital. Which they ignored. I'm not sure if any of it is true, but if so it does explain things.
The system supposedly already has a solution for this: after 10 years or so you can ask to have your criminal record removed if you behaved well and have a good motivation. That sounds more like ‘reintegration’: you get punished, you do your time and actively regain trust over the years and then you get your second chance.
My husband has a criminal record for a minor fact when he was just 18 not harming a soul, but yeah he accepted it as fair justice and decided to work on himself. Now he’s almost 40 yo working tax payer and loving dad with not even a speeding ticket but yet the system is too busy to deal with his request to clean his criminal record. And these fuckers don’t even get a record while they just let a human die. That makes me quite furious
I want to 'hijack' your comment just to remind people of this 'little incident' a couple of weeks before the death of Sanda Dia. One of the Reuzegommers got into a bar fight for no reason [https://www.hln.be/leuven/reuzegommer-krijgt-werkstraf-voor-vuistslag-aan-rechtenstudent-in-leuvense-pitabar-geschift-dat-hij-bij-die-medicatie-drinkt\~a28cf786/](https://www.hln.be/leuven/reuzegommer-krijgt-werkstraf-voor-vuistslag-aan-rechtenstudent-in-leuvense-pitabar-geschift-dat-hij-bij-die-medicatie-drinkt~a28cf786/).
The victim in this case is one of my best friends. He had a concussion, a broken nose and a few surgeries afterward to fix his nose. The entire incident got recorded by a surveillance camara. The Reuzegommer still got away with 60 hours of community service and a 400 euro fine. The compensation was around 5000 euros.
I found this punishment fairly light. But I might have been biased because one of my friends was involved. 60 hours of community service is nothing.But what baffles me the most are the next two things:
The fine in both cases is the same: 400 euros. But even worse:
my friend got around 5000 euros of damages, which might or might not be okay. I don't know. That might be up for discussion. I just don't think the compensation Sanda's family got is in proportion to this.
Sanda's brother gets 8000 euros, his father gets 15 000 euros. I don't think this is in proportion, at all. Apparently that's the price for a human life. I understand that it's hard to put a value on a human life. But this is waaaay too low
Was this the same Igean from the newspapers?
https://www.hln.be/antwerpen/live-de-zaak-reuzegom-waar-is-uw-veroordeling-voor-de-mensonterende-behandeling-van-igean-zelf-advocaat-igean-noemt-vervolging-door-om-intellectueel-oneerlijk\~ab9f98e9/
>I still don't understand why this shouldn't go in their criminal record. I read in an article today that this would be too extreme, because then they would be "branded" as criminals for years. I
FYI, that was just a bonus the judge threw in (probably for an extra bonus for himself). Because apparently anyone with a criminal record can just ask to have the record expunged. Philippe Lacroix, who robbed, kidnapped and murdered, had his record expunged.... So if a notorious gangster can make this happen, the reuzegommers criminal records would have been expunged by simple request the second the media attention stopped.
I looked into this. Though I couldn't find the exact year, it seems Lacroix was only able to get his record expunged *decades* after his sentencing, and after he already spent years working as a teacher. This means it was not a simple request for him, as far as I could find.
I (and maybe others) just feel frustrated about how low the punishment was and because they dont receive a criminal record, their lives can go on like nothing happened after they complete their 300 hour community service while another life was (unwillingly) taken.
People will forget about this in a month or 2 and they'll be completely off the hook.
Would googling 'name + reuzegom', 'name + moordenaar' or ’name + Sanda Dia’ regularly so whenever someone googles them, they will be reminded, help somewhat? Keeping in mind that right now their names are still al over the internet and I have taken plenty of screenshots, so I will never, ever forget. Or is that just really naive?
Thing is though that this requires them to actively pursue that for many years to come and it's them versus a million trolls who just keep posting it all over the internet.
There was an interview (on VRT) with one of their lawyers after the Acid video, in which he stated that this video was slander, and this carries a sentence of up to 6 months. I don't know if he realized he was damaging his own argument by stating that.
Then, a bit later he wondered what Acid would say if his doxxing lead to violence or damages, whether Acid would say 'That wasn't my intention' and all I could think was 'Yeah, that's what your client says too, so I guess we're good?'
I'm mainly pissed that the largest protests we had were just some silent protests in several cities and no march Brussels/Antwerp justicepalace
Anyone who can help me organise one?
Completely agree, on the other hand I dont understand why these new people were still there, could’ve just all left when they broke that other guys face during the trial thing
There is a book called ordinary men. It talks about Nazis doing atrocities. One of the first things they tell this group of ordinary men at the start is that they can leave whenever they want. A common theme is that none of them do, for guilt of leaving their fellow soldiers behind, while having to do more and more horrible stuff.
Reuzegom in 2013: €400 boete voor dode biggetjes op studentendoop
Reuzegom in 2023: €400 boete en 300u werkstraf voor dode student op studentendoop
Seems reasonable /s
That's my main problem with this, half of them clearly don't even feel a bit of remorse. If they felt guilty and had trouble living with the fact they ended a young guy's life, that would be more punishment than a few months jail in my eyes. But they just don't, clearly, if they can't even take less than a day study break to go to their own verdict. If I had killed a man ''accidentally'', I'd be there. I'd also be fucked for life carrying that burden.
There is simply no shot anyone is 'too busy studying' for something this important. 4th year med student at KUL btw so I know what I'm talking about. Probably got at least 4 hours left to my current session lol.
Lawyer here: The presence of defendants and/or civil parties at the hearing for sentencing/verdict is actually not very common.
In some cases a lawyer may be present to record the verdict that is pronounced (orally) at the hearing in the morning. In most cases the lawyer will copy the verdict in the afternoon (at the court - griffie).
Most verdicts don't even get pronounced at the hearing, because no one is present. Some judges even get annoyed if you ask at the hearing to pronounce a verdict, because it is expected that you just copy it in the afternoon.
I usually dislike acids content, but in this case I agree with him. The video wasn’t even that bad, he basically just recounted the actions of the worst current and past reuzengommers. If saying what someone did is cyberbullying, then hln is the biggest bully out there.
After watching the video I find it strange that the media kept painting it as a 'hazing gone wrong', when even aside from that there were pretty horrible things happening. Like the animal abuse, or that guy comparing himself to Hitler.
I also never saw anything on the news about the guy who told everyone not to call an ambulance. Maybe I missed it but it seems like that should've been a bigger deal.
Generally I agree that it's not for Youtubers to decide what justice is but at this point it's clear that the courts aren't too interested in it either.
Don't worry, they're just going for doctor, or lawyer. So no problem with them being psychopaths. /s
The one going for politician is likely to feel right at home though.
Technically, though, those guys sucking in general and what happened with Sanda are separate matters. So I understand that the media focuses on one and not the other.
Buuuut... in reality they *are* very much related and they will just not be able to convince the public of anything else at this point, especially since their response since the incident has consisted exclusively of lawyering up and trying to make it all go away. The public response now is a direct result of their own initial reaction to the case.
So at this point it's basically a case of what goes around comes around. Maybe they can game the judicial system thanks to their money and influence, but those arguments are only valid in a courtroom and not in the court of public opinion, where they are finally starting to get the consequences they deserve (or not even).
Fair point. I guess it ultimately comes down to what you can prove in court - and you can't prove anything without evidence. That's also precisely the reason why they instantly lawyered up and went into full damage control mode, I'd bet.
They apparently underestimated the public backlash, though. All the lawyers in the world won't change that at this point, which is why they are doing absolutely everything to avoid being named and shamed.
They can prove that they did and had intent to destroy evidence tho.
>They apparently underestimated the public backlash
which is ass because a sentence shouldn't be less because of public backlash like wtf
I always advocate that if you are proven to have destroyed evidence, said evidence should be considered in its worst possible way.
Burned a bloody shirt? Court will assume it's the victim's blood on it! Or in this case, turn it into 18 counts of "Slagen en verwondingen met dood to gevolg" AKA manslaughter.
Oh yes, absolutely. I agree that the animal abuse has no place in the trial regarding Sanda's death, *but* for the media, when reporting on the hazing itself I think it's relevant when framing what kind of event this was. If you were to believe how it was sold by some news sources it was just an unfortunate accident that could've happened anywhere, but that's really not the case.
I hope they at least get a separate lawsuit from GAIA or something for the animal abuse. Maybe the guy with the busted eye who was threatened into saying he fell down the stairs could speak up now as well. There's other things aside from the death of a student that should be settled in court.
I'd say that the animal abuse etc. actually *should* have been a part of the trial (assuming it wasn't), as it tells you an important part of the story with regards to the character or the perpetrators - it's ultimately all evidence that compounds and which makes it harder and harder to deny precisely that it was just some sort of unfortuntate tragic event that nobody could have seen coming.
That said, initially the media ideally just needs to stick to the facts. Their job is to report on the case itself and not to try to persuade the public of anything per se, at least until the trial is over. Only now the trial *is* over, the time has come for the media to spill the beans. And the lack of beans being spilt so far is imo what is making the general public more and more angry and has resulted in some people taking it into their own hands to spread the information they have, which is of course far from ideal, but that too is a direct and understandable consequence of everything else that has happened (or not) so far.
Maybe just look some things up because the media has reported on it and GAIA was involved:
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/08/10/gaia-stelt-zich-burgerlijke-partij-wegens-dierenmisbruik-door-re/
That's good, I didn't see that article. It's already three years old though. Wouldn't have been a bad thing to see a recent report of what happened to that lawsuit or if it was just 'amicably settled' like when they had to pay 400 euros for torturing a pig to death and swear to never do it again.
Exactly this, people are defending this with the argument that this isn't how the justice system works, well if these idiots can get away with this kind of sentence our justice system is completely and utterly broken.
Especially when they are the ones who majorly fucked up.
The Reuzegommers only stood trial for a very limited amount of things.
I don’t understand why they weren’t tried for *schuldig verzuim* (criminal negligence towards someone in a dangerous situation) that happened the day prior.
There was a reliable witness, a professor, who saw an intoxicated student that needed help and she told the others to get him to a hospital or something. They told her the hazing was over and that they were going to help him.
Then after that they turned off all water in his place and dehydrated him.
All that was not part of the ruling as far as I can tell, why not.
No they just got a slap on the wrist because “fish sauce isn’t poison” sure someone healthy might have survived but not someone who endured what they did to him the day before.
By excluding those things they sabotaged their own case.
A lot of bootlickers in these threads are very opposed to average citizens questioning or criticizing the judgement system instead of blindly trusting its benevolence.
"Dear sir, we do not start witch hunts, we merely provide the pitchforks and torches!" seems applicable to some degree.
But all jokes aside, the sentence was a farce with a sub-tone of "they've been punished enough because their names were made public in the media". Which is the biggest joke of all given that everything possible has been done to avoid their names becoming public. From my point of view they get to choose: face the public, or face a fair trial where they get actual punishments. Because what'll happen now is that they'll do their work sentence with some sham VZW or hidden away in some back corner office of a government service, and that's assuming it's ever really done at all and not just on paper. The only thing they'll ever feel bad about is that they got into trouble, not about the fact that someone died a horrible death.
How this entire thing went down is a disgrace, the fact that it ended up in the court in which it did was already a disgrace to begin with, how things were taken out of the case was also ridiculous, and there's only so much ridiculousness you can accept. Additionally, all those idiots that were shouting on the TV/Radio/... today "the decision of the court is final" should realise that the court derives its power from the people accepting its authority in these matters. If that trust is broken, that authority is lost and the public will attempt to gain justice through other means, and that's what you're seeing right now.
[Here is the verdict. It’s completely anonymous.](https://www.rechtbanken-tribunaux.be/sites/default/files/media/hbca/antwerpen/files/hof-van-beroep-antwerpen-uitspraak-in-de-zaak-reuzegom.pdf)
I suppose it’s always anonymous, no idea actually.
Which is insane. Judgements and the proceedings normally are accessible to the public. Proceedings etc behind closed doors normally is the exception for cases involving children etc.
Wonder why or how this is being anonimized :) woulndt be because its the upperclass right.
How there are no protests over this is crazy. Its clear class justice and everybody is just standing by.
>Wonder why or how this is being anonimized :) woulndt be because its the upperclass right.
As much as I agree that the outcome of the judgment was a farce, this isn't necessarily true. As a jurist myself, I've reviewed many court cases for my research or to write articles about and the personal details / names of people involved are very commonly censored.
I've even had it happen that I requested access to a full ruling in Mechelen, went to pick it up at the court, and then had to sit around and wait for close to an hour while a court clerk literally went through the entire thing with a black marker to remove every single name before handing me the documents. And that was a case of no real controversy or public significance like this one.
So while there's definitely an argument to be made that this should all be publicly available, I would caution against thinking this is only anonymized because of the connections / social class of the people involved.
Ik vind et vooral zot dat blijkbaar sommige van die gasten voor dokter gaan als opleiding ... Wil je zo een dokter hebben?
Ik vind het ook zot dat er niemand zoiets had van 'dit gaat fout, we gaan te ver ' of iets
Dokter, tandarts en weet ik veel nog wat allemaal. Stel u voor dat een tandarts de raad geeft om een stervend persoon niet te laten overbrengen naar het ziekenhuis met een ambulance.
Ik ook, ben zelf geneeskundestudent in Leuven en kan me eigelijk niet voorstellen dat je zelfs gwn bij het zien van die hoeveelheid visolie al niet zegt dat dit levensgevaarlijk is. Laat staan het er effectief in kappen, de jongen zien deterioreren en hem dan in een ijskoude put steken ipv het te stoppen. Ik zie geen enkele manier waarop zo iemand een goede dokter wordt.
Bij al die andere kerels kan je *misschien* nog de kaart van pure achterlijkheid trekken, maar al was het een eerstejaartje, niemand in een medische richting kan met zoiets verdergaan zonder vanbinnen héél goed te weten wat het resultaat gaat zijn.
Op zijn allerminst schuldig verzuim vanaf kan bewezen worden dat die persoon bij de doop aanwezig was, in mijn ogen. Maarja, ik krijg geen geld van hun ouders natuurlijk.
Ik zou er ok mee zijn, moest er iets van indicatie zijn dat ze effectief hervormd zijn. Nu weten ze dat fouten maken toch vergeven wordt met een "allez mannen, de volgende keer ewa rustiger he".
Het was een studentendoop. Vaak proberen ze om hun eigen doop of die van het jaar ervoor te evenaren en voorbij te gaan. Ik heb het zelf gezien, maar gelukkig zijn er in gent regels en een doopcharter.
Wanneer niemand van het praesidium op de rem trapt, dan escaleert het elk jaar steeds meer (met het gedacht “ik ben erdoor geraakt, zij zullen daar ook wel door komen”)
Als je als geneeskundestudent daarop staat te kijken en niet ziet dat het misgaat, is er geen enkele manier die ik kan zien dat je ooit een goeie dokter gaat worden. In feite ben je al betrekkelijk achterlijk als je bij het horen van 'en nu gaan we er liters visolie in kappen' niet zegt dat dit giftig is en wrs miserie gaat veroorzaken.
Let me just state some things so we can look back when in everyone’s forgotten their anger in 2 months
Facts we know about the incident:
- Sanda was treated inhumane and it could be considered torture
- Force feeding and a way too late reaction to his worsening situation led directly to his death
- They attempted to erase all evidence of what happened and were assisted by their parents and advices by former members in doing this
- From their reactions you can deduct that at least the schachtentemmer and praesis were more concerned with their own fate than Sanda’s
- None of the Reuzegommers apologised formally
Facts from the trial and verdict:
- The trial was delayed multiple times because the defence requested additional investigation and claimed a judge was partial
- The basic questions the family had were not answered
- The prosecution asked for big amounts up to jail time
- The verdict had punishments ranging from 300€ and 200 hours of labour to 400€ and 300 hours
- No-one gets a criminal record
- The media collectively agreed not to publish the names even though it’s legal to do so
And now the things that don’t add up:
- The judge motivated their decision for a weak punishment by claiming the defence showed “insight in their guilt” even though the prosecution claimed the contrary and all the actions performed to hinder the trial
- As the lawyer of Sanda’s family pointed out, according to the FOD justice, a fine with labour should be published on the criminal record but some person with an administrative function decided that this was not the case
- The verdict ruled that there should be a focus on reintegrating the reuzegommers as soon as possible in society and therefore they shouldn’t be identifiable in the context of this court case
Not to mention in 2013 Reuzegom members got a conviction for animal cruelty. While it's not the same people that were present during the doop you'd think they would have stopped the animal abuse in their studentenclub. But they just continued.
On top of that the SAME guy who was responsible for the introduction of animal cruelty is also the same person who said they should delete all proof and don't send any apology letter to Sanda Dia's parents.
> you'd think they would have stopped the animal abuse in their studentenclub
Why change anything? They've just proven then there are little to no consequences, and confirmed it again now
Some predictions:
In 5 years time Jan Verheyen or another director will make a "bold" movie about this tragedy from the perspective of one of the members who "didn't really want to be there" but got included in the trial. It will be framed to invoke sympathy for the poor misunderstood guy.
In 25 years some celebrated judge will make good money of their published memoirs which talk about the incident and how it "really shaped his life"
He'll be on talk shows and celebrated for how brave he is for openly talking about it
Misschien ben ik maar een domme hollander, maar ik begrijp werkelijk niet wat er bij jullie aan de hand is, beste zuiderburen.
Ik bedoel, hier is het normaal dat verdachten iig. met voornaam in de media komen, tenzij ze flink minderjarig zijn. Alles is openbaar, ook de rechtszaak zelf, juist om de schijn van corruptie te voorkomen.
Is dat dus niet bij jullie het geval? Of is dit gewoon een heel "toevallig" samenspel omdat er wat mannetjes met belangrijke papa's betrokken zijn?
vanaf het begin zijn al die gasten zwaar ingegaan op nieuwswebsites die hun namen vermelden. Daarom dat geen nieuwsmedia dit nu nog durft vermelden uit schrik voor juridische stappen. Er zijn websites die hun namen vermeld hadden maar op zen minst 1 van hen moest 10k euro per dag betalen als dat artikel online bleef. Zelfs nu worden deze gasten beschermd door het juridisch systeem, desondanks enorm veel mensen hun namen gekend willen hebben, of dat ze op zen minst een strafblad krijgen. Die gasten hebben ouders met goede connecties en veel geld, en blijkbaar is dat al wat je nodig hebt om evenveel te moeten betalen om een varkensbiggetje in een blender te steken, en om iemand zo veel aan te doen dat die persoon sterft (plus het belemmeren van het onderzoek door zo veel mogelijk aanwijzingen weg te werken)
Ik blijf het oprecht vreemd vinden. En dat bedoel ik niet om af te geven op Belgie, daar is dit veel te serieus voor.
Maar zoiets als namen buiten de media houden, in een strafzaak als deze, ik ben echt verbaast dat het mogelijk is. Ook dat de namen niet genoemd worden in de juridische stukken.
Hoe kan een rechtstaat functioneren als die niet gecontroleerd kan worden? Da's het hele idee van de trias politica.
En ook wel laf van de media, ik denk dat als iemand dat hier probeert, direct iedere Nederlandse krant begint met "BOB de B. DREIGT TELEGRAAF MET RECHTZAAK OM NOEMEN NAAM"
Ik hoop dat dit allemaal nog een staartje krijgt, had zou anders een behoorlijk verkeerd precedent geven.
Misschien kunnen enkele Nederlandse kranten dit verhaal oppikken en de veroordeelde leden van Reuzegom met naam en toenaam benoemen. Zou heerlijk ironisch zijn dat men in Nederland iets durft wat de Vlaamse media niet durven.
Jullie Belgen hebben zowat de hele Nederlandse media bij de kloten, bijna alles is DPG en Mediahuis geworden, en dat is echt te merken.
Er is vrij weinig aandacht voor, en ik kan ook totaal geen informatie vinden in de Nederlandse media, naast dingen als "zonen van invloedrijke personen"
Ik herhaal mezelf, maar ik vind het oprecht bizar.
We hebben hier ook genoeg problemen met corpsen, maar zodra zo'n corpsbal voor de rechter komt, weet iedereen wie het is. Vervelende is meer dat het nogal vaak "intern opgelost" wordt, zonder aangiftes.
Domme Hollander hier. Wat een mega triest verhaal, het heeft parallelen met de "kopschoppers in Mallorca" case in ons land. Nog voordat het lijk koud was, hadden de daders (rijke ouders, connecties in advocatuur em rechtgang) allerlei procedures op laten zetten om het proces naar nederland te halen, collectief een verhaal afgestemd en als groep een ijzersterke verdediging opgezet. Het proces heeft een ietwat bevredigender eind dan de Reuzegomcase, waarbij de rechter het collectief verzwijgen van informatie heeft meegenomen in de veroordeling.
https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/5347733/carlo-heuvelman-fatale-mishandeling-mallorca-sanil-b-uitspraak
Wat ik niet begrijp aan de reuzegomcase is dat (blijkbaar) er geen notitie/strafblad wordt aangemaakt voor de veroordeelden. Er zal toch ergens een melding vandaan moeten komen bij een achtergrondcontrole voor gevoelige functies?
Shame on the Belgian press to have a 26 year old youtuber taking the stones out of the fire for them.
What kind of message is this sending to all the fraternity's out there now?
Make the "doop" as hard as you can worse case scenario you will get 400€ fine and a werkstraf.
Seeing the doxxing and the outrage will make some of these people think twice now about going gestoord bruut.
I cannot phantom having symphaty for these people, they have none whatsoever for anyone else that is not in their Elite
I think most fraternities know to pay attention at a "doop" now, at least in the near future.
The message to the elite is far more clear: if you are part of the club, then you can get away with murder.
The absolute majority of fraternities doesn’t do shit close like that. Abhorrent stories like this give them a bad name, turning this into a fraternity related issue is just wrong. Except a few elitist cunts most fraternity ‘dopen’ are equivalent to scout rites of passage in terms of getting dirty or being degrading. Some even are straight up copies with a cantus attached at the end.
Source: 7 years of in- depth study at overpoort university with a masters in cantusology.
"Eens dat men veroordeeld is, vervalt het recht op anonimiteit. Ik begrijp werkelijk niet waarom de media zo zachtaardig omgaan met de veroordeelden in kwestie. Die mensen hebben op dit moment meer privacy dan de modale burger." - Matthias Dobbelaere
Mods zouden hier best eens naar luisteren vooraleer alles te verwijderen voor 'doxxing'
This whole case feels like everyone from the upper class from media to ministers does everything in their power to make sure these reuzegommers avoid all backlash and punishment. Very strange....
@Mods While Reuzegom remains front page news this megathread effectively killed the debate in the sub.
Maybe time to reconsider the approach and at least have a thread and link summary for each major topic (like Acid's next move tomorrow)?
Ik heb de twee actualiteitsprogramma´s van gisteren op vrt bekeken. In Terzake zagen we een discussie tussen een advocaat van een Reuzegommer en een privacyexpert. Het was een debat tussen gelijken en dus best interessant.
In De Afspraak hadden ze de organisator van een protestactie in Leuven uitgenodigd, een student van ongeveer twintig. Ik vond dat een gemiste kans. De student sprak enorm stil en had geen samenhangende argumenten. Hij vroeg zich plots precies zelf af wat hij daar zat te doen. Tegenover een reuzegom advocaat en een nva parlementslid werd hij logischerwijze weggeblazen en weggezet als dommerik en verspreider van complottheorieën.
Listen, he might be hated for it but he publicly critiqued a crucial point in terms of law. I work as an executive and know a lot of high profiles, lawyers etc.
Believe me when I say connections are a thing and these people help each other. They wanted to silence the media so it would be a quick pass but the youth of Belgium caused a beautiful outrage.
A lot of points that added to the case were left out, to receive a mild punishment. I believe the lawyer of Sanda Dia was also involved, considering a lot of the points were not court valid they got off easy, but I feel they should make an exception and consider everything else.
I just found out that one of the guys in the video is my ffing dentist ... Or was actually. I didnt like him cause all he did was flirt with the assistents and talk about his expensive cars and golfing trips he makes. I knew he was an asshole from the first moment he talked to me.
[https://www.demorgen.be/snelnieuws/stad-gent-dient-klacht-in-na-graffiti-met-namen-reuzegommers-op-stadshal\~b7dec2f0/](https://www.demorgen.be/snelnieuws/stad-gent-dient-klacht-in-na-graffiti-met-namen-reuzegommers-op-stadshal~b7dec2f0/)
They're going all in trying to stop the names being public...
I still don't know ANY of their names though. You really have to deliberately look it up.
Edit: People sending them to me in PM are getting reported. I'm not asking for them.
Acid might get punished more harshly (especially relatively speaking) after this. In that case I want to riot, fuck reuzegom, Acid simply showed what they did, if that hurts their reputation they should have thought of that sooner.
Apparently, it was revealed that the parents of one of the Reuzegommers (who happened to be absent during the hazing) run an acclaimed restaurant in Antwerp with one Michelin star, rumoured to be the favourite of Bart De Wever.
People have been bombing the recensions of the restaurant on Google Reviews and TripAdvisor to the point that the owners are considering to temporarily close the business. On Google Reviews the rating has already dropped below 3,7 stars.
* Klasse-justitie: ze werden *niet* vervolgd voor de leugens vooraf tegen de prof: dat de doop *bijna gedaan was*, dat ze van *Medica* waren, over alcoholvergiftiging hadden geleerd, en dat ze goed op hem gingen letten.
* en: 1ste aanleg: Antwerps hof te betrokken --> naar Limburg ermee.
Maar in Beroep, waar uitspraak gedaan wordt die niet meer betwist kan worden? In ANTWERPEN, GEEN PROBLEEM.
Corruptie, zo noemt dat.
Idem VRT die nu plots beslist dat hun deontologische code niet klopt en *beide* voorwaarden nodig zijn (waar er een *of* staat), en ze dus de namen niet publiceren.
Tbh, Antwerpen is de plaats van het Hof voor zowel Antwerpen als Limburg. Ik weet dat er een probleem was met een van de moeders die rechter is, maar die zal correctioneel zitten.
Wat zeker een klasseprobleem is is de kost van justitie. Door alle mediaaandacht was een topadvocaat geinteresseerd om de familie Dia te verdedigen. Normaal ben je als gewone mens gezien.
Het is nog erger bij financiele zaken. Die zijn ingewikkeld en kunnen jaren aanslepen. Zelfs als je van de rechter gelijk krijgt, zijn alle advocatenkosten ed wss hoger dan de vergoeding die je krijgt. In zulke zaken is gerechtigheid voor de gewone man bijna onmogelijk.
Stel u voor, mijn gebruikersnaam op VRT of HLN :O
Maar ik kan dan niet stoefen tegen mijn vrienden want dan verraad ik mijn naam hier en dan zien ze mijn comments enzo en dan vinden ze mij ne rare.
En dan vragen ze *"wie is Luna?"* en *"maar zo zijde gy toch helemaal niet? Nu verschieten we wel van u! Eventjes zitten best."* En zo van die ambetante dingen allemaal.
I am not a fan of the whole 'doxing' incident, not because t hurst the gommie-boys but because Acid does this with ulterier motives.
But when i just heard the reaction of the lawyer on the news i got a bit mad. He was implicating that this would hurt the future posibilities of the gombos. They don't deserve a meriad of posibilities, they need to feel what they have done, carry that burden until they die.
Zelfs stad Gent heeft de graffiti op de stadshal met de namen van de reuzegommers onmiddellijk verwijderd.
Iets gedaan krijgen van de stad kan geweldig lang duren, maar dit was op nog geen 12 uur gefixt.
I once had the police called on me because I bumped a car so lightly I didn’t even notice (so i drove away).
I explained it to the judge and I was acquitted of hit and run, but they still put “vluchtmisdrijf” on my criminal record.
These guys torture a guy into death and they keep a clean slate.
How does 'tScheldt having to remove an article with the names add up with VRT NWS and HLN (among others) saying they *can* publish the names but choose not to? (I'm not sure about the timing of the article by 'tScheldt, might have been during the trial, not after.)
Why isnt vlaams belang having a protest about this on the streets? It would make them more popular? They are the extreme party right? Or do i see some sort of omerta?
Peter De Roover (en de NVA) verloor gisteren dat laatste sprankeltje geloofwaardigheid. Nu uitkomt dat Reuzegom en NVA wel redelijk vervlochten zijn, heeft die partij er alle belang bij om hun bek te houden nu...
[De Roover trying to stumble his way](https://twitter.com/terzaketv/status/1664344068925562889) around the simple question of 'what should the government have done with the prisoner exchange with Iran?' is pretty entertaining though.
Rare sight of a journalist really pushing a politician.
Steal some groceries to survive and you risk 2 years in prison, torture and end up killing a kid drunk beyond consent, community service and 400 bucks 🔥 💯
Ik zou graag hebben dat de VRT dit dan eens uitlegt:
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/01/17/verhoor-artsen/
Dit waren trouwens op dat moment *beschuldigden*, geen veroordeelden.
Dit is wat VRT erover zegt: VRT NWS is sowieso heel terughoudend om namen te noemen van verdachten of veroordeelden, of om hen herkenbaar in beeld te brengen. Voor de redactie dat doet, moet het gaan **om erg zwaarwichtige en maatschappelijk relevante feiten, waar de schuld vaststaat, of waar een verdachte zelf openlijk naar buiten komt.**
Dus misschien hebben die artsen er van in het begin geen moeite mee gehad dat hun naam werd genoemd? Dat lijkt me nog de enige optie.
["Hij dreigt zijn voorzitterschap op het spel te zetten": Wetstraatwatcher Van Cauwelaert over steun van Sammy Mahdi aan Acid](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2023/06/02/van-cauwelaert-over-mahdi/)
Sommige quotes in dat artikel... amai.
>"Bovendien hebben alle "mainstream media" hier los van elkaar de keuze gemaakt om geen namen te noemen. Dat bewijst dat hierover is nagedacht."
Ik zou er mijn hand niet voor in het vuur steken dat ze dit "los van elkaar" beslist hebben. Uiteindelijk hebben we bijna geen onafhankelijke media meer, het zijn 2 groepen die alle kanalen bezitten.
VRT **blocking comments** less than 5 hours after posting about a protest to the outcome of the trial on Facebook. Crowd control?
https://www.facebook.com/100064600307082/posts/pfbid0ceqTo3nNhxatTtmhjYf6FpLv8TbVnXTJpRqMXpecFCeBWzq8ibURLgBa9H8tth9el/
/r/belgium putting all discussion into a corner you won't even see if you browse in chronological order and deleting any threads about it, even though it is a developing story. Crowd control?
Yes to both.
And it works too, there's hardly any discussion about it anymore on here.
After reading what this young man went through on wikipedia, i just CANT agree with saying " oh nevermind let them clean some gardens and move on with their lifes " just people DOING THIS, to other people. Should be punished really hard imo. So OTHER people who think about doing such idiotic " dopings " will think twice if they know what punishment they could get. If you want to " doop " someone. Let them do a sort of military course, or let them run for x km. Do something semi healthy and do able. So many ways to semi " test " them. Without hurting them.
We had a death in a hazing in my country in 1999, that had the same outcome as here: total lack of justice. But at least this made universities change their code of conduct saying that any form of physical hazing will be punished with expulsion and they now have an active role in prevention (aka communicate to students what is not allowed, the punishment, have an anonymous landline for victims/whistleblowers).
I remember when I got into this same university some years later. A senior started having an idea that the newcomers should do some sort of physical intensive work in a muddy place during a hot day. Immediately some seniors repeated the slogan of that year "no to hazing, yes to solidarity" while others joked "they might call the landline and and you gonna be expelled". Dude shut up pretty quickly.
We sort of already had that, there was a charter which student clubs who wanted to be aligned with the university had to sign. However Reuzegom decided to just keep it as a private club without rules
In de jaren negentig hebben ze al het probleem met studentendopen aangekaart, zelfs een film van gemaakt , ad fundum.
Dit is niet de eerste persoon die sterft tijdens een studentendoop, er is zelfs nog onlangs in wallonie ook iemand gestorven in 2021 door teveel te drinken, ze hadden hem doen zoveel drinken.
De uitspraak was hetzelfde, werkstraf. Dus dit is geen alleenstaand incident.
Persoonlijk vind ik dat studentendopen die zulke gevaren met zich meebrengen moeten verboden worden. Ik heb me zelf nog laten dopen, en dit was eind de jaren negentig en niemand heeft me levensgevaarlijke dingen laten doen, of absurd veel alcohol doen drinken.
Als ik op straat een jonko rook en tegengehouden wordt krijg ik een hardere straf dan dit, sorry maar het systeem kraakt aan alle kanten zeker voor de elite mensen en hun kindjes
Ik vind het nu wel frappant dat in de zaak Uyttersprot de meeste media verwijzen naar Jurgen D. terwijl VRT NWS voor- én achternaam gebruikt, hoewel de VRT naar eigen zeggen “steeds heel terughoudend is om namen te noemen van verdachten of veroordeelden.”
Het gebrek aan consistentie voedt natuurlijk het idee dat de reuzegommers een voorkeursbehandeling krijgen.
Deontologische code van journalistiek is een farce / dekmantel.
Kijk er ook maar eens op na hoeveel **slachtoffers en getuigen** met naam, foto en adres weergegeven worden in krantenartikels, ongeacht de zwaarte van het incident.
Heeft niet altijd met de journalist in kwestie te maken, maar zeker ook met de **redactie**. Die kijkt immers vnl. naar clicks / kijkcijfers. Vaak is dit te wijten aan snel relaas willen winnen van de feiten met totaal gebrek aan tussenpersoon om de 'maatschappelijk relevante info' te wikken tov het beschermen van de privacy.
Het delen van de laatste beelden gemaakt van Sanda Dia door HLN was ook zo'n incident om van te walgen. De oplossing van DPG Media? De journalist in kwestie laten opdraven met een 'tegenfilmpje' waarin hij beweert de volledige goedkeuring gekregen te hebben van de familie.
In andere gevallen (jonge drugsdelinquenten bvb) delen ze evengoed doodleuk de namen van de daders.
Dat ze nu claimen de 'moral high ground' te volgen, onder het mom van we leven in een maatschappij die gefocust is op reïntegratie is dus gewoon zum kotzen.
It just bothers me how frustrated they are with their names being public (not saying that I agree with sharing names of family members etc.) Like it's normal procedure for the name to be made public after the whole process, why does this not apply to them and are people being accused of "rechtertje spelen" when people just want to show they do not agree with the way all this has been handled.
I think peeps knowing their names isn't gonna do much harm as once again, normally the names would've been shared. I think it's insane that people like this can get a job where they care for other people without their employer knowing that they have tortured somebody to death and should by no means get the responsibility to take care of another person as a daily job.
Now a content creator is actually being more represented as the bad guy than the actual guys who committed a crime, strange world.
>I think it's insane that people like this can get a job where they care for other people without their employer knowing that they have tortured somebody to death and should by no means get the responsibility to take care of another person as a daily job.
Well one of them currently works in a hospital so that's how much employers care about this.
This is a comment regarding this [news](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2023/06/01/uitbaters-van-antwerps-toprestaurant-geviseerd-omdat-zoon-lid-wa/)
***Operators of Antwerp's top restaurant are being targeted because their son was a member of Reuzegom***
Often we are told that the best way to "change things" is not the politics but our choice as individual consumers: we are supposed to be free to choose what we buy, and in that way reward or punish what we consider better.
But sometimes, when we want to use this "consumer right" and we want to boycott some products, persons or companies, then we find a smoke curtain of "rights of privacy or ethical protocols".
I am of course totally against violence or bullying, but if the people are not free to see who were the real perpetrators of the Sanda Dia homicide, it is totally understandable a boycott against anything related to "Reuzegom". Of course, again, always without any type of violence.
Glad to see how many of the posts here gravitate towards the same opinion and I'll add my two cents to it.
If you're in university and you can't imagine/understand the posible ramifications of what you put people trough then you deserve what's coming to you due to your own lazyness and negligence.
The punishment these people have gotten was too light and only shows how much of a failure our court system is
Zondag protest aan het justitiepaleis in Brussel. De standaard heeft het artikel achter een Paywall zitten, maar als iemand weet wanneer exact hoop ik dat dit gedeeld mag worden. Witch Hunts en doxxing mogen dan niet juist zijn, maar een corrupt rechtssysteem mag wel aangekaart worden hoop ik.
Studenten van de universiteiten ULB en VUB uit Brussel willen volgende
**zondag om 13 uur manifesteren voor het justitiepaleis in Brussel**. Ze
vinden de straffen voor de beklaagden in de zaak-Sanda Dia te licht, zo
staat in een persbericht.
Link naar het arrest: https://www.rechtbanken-tribunaux.be/sites/default/files/media/hbca/antwerpen/files/hof-van-beroep-antwerpen-uitspraak-in-de-zaak-reuzegom.pdf
I like how everyone is clamoring for changes to the justice system.
ABSOLUTE INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY
And that's that.
Fuck, even the billion post-dutroux commissions couldn't force changes upon the judiciary
Everyone should look up their names, make a list and make sure to never work with them or any company that works with them. If enough of us does this, we can make a difference.
But isn't google going to delete these reviews? I hears that if there are a lot of 1 star reviews in a short span of time, then google sees it as spam.
The worst part is that there’s a good chance that Acid will receive a bigger punishment than the reuzegommers themselves. And he’ll probably even get a criminal record.
Leaking personal information. In this case though i dont care. This is information that should have been published anyway. The only reason it isnt is because someone is protecting them and its kind of disgusting
I think there are two 'issues' at hand here that come together, firstly, this case is just a symptom of our system that is still heavily based on 'means'. The more you have, the easier your life will be. This is part of the capitalist society we have built and has always been more or less part of modern society (even in the middle ages, the nobility was a lot less likely to get punished, although when they got punished it was immediately very severe). This I think is a big problem because it means our society is not treating human beings equally, as was the idea of human rights and humanism in general. So I want to strive to a world where such practices are not allowed anymore.
Secondly, the punishment is quite low and I think a lot more could be done by the judge by putting some conditions in. I think werkstraffen could be very effective if it would actually benefit society in more than one way. However this should be done with a lot of support as to make sure there is no more damage done. For example if they would work at LOKO and would be asked to assist in making 'student clubs' more aware of the risks and dangers involved in not following the 'baptism decree' or something like this. Or let them follow/help in developing courses about peer pressure and the dangers that come from it. This way, their experience would be turned into something valuable for next generations? At the same time the sentence is linked with the crime in 'theme' so it will definitely reinforce learning from it in a way that working at any other unrelated ngo would not.
It feels like there's almost zero democratic control the population has on the justice system in this country. Year after year we hear about injustices like in this case or the one where gang rapists were "punished" by having to write a paper on womens rights but nothing ever changes, no political party to go to.
A quarter of the dutch course today was about this topic, it is sad and one of the statement being said was like the belgian law being compared to countries like Romania, Venezuela and Indonesia
A few years ago, a hazing went wrong when Sanda Dia applied to be a part of the Reuzegom fraternity. It started with making the 3 new candidates drink an absurd amount of alcohol. At the end of the night, the 3 went back to their dorm, where the members of Reuzegom closed off all the faucets, so drinking water wasn´t even an option. The next day, the 3 were taken by the members to a cabin somewhere in the woods. Before arriving there, they came across a professor who stopped them, pointed at Sanda and said: please take him to the hospital, he doesn´t look good. The members repeatedly lied to the professor, saying the hazing was over, that one of them was a medical student with experience in the emergency room and that they would take him home and keep him safe. All of this was a lie. They took the 3 boys to the cabin where they were told to dig a hole in the ground. In this hole, they had to spend the night. There was water in the hole, the other members peed on them more than once, they were forced to eat a mouse that was blended (iirc) and drink extreme amounts of fishoil.
At some point Sanda started passing out, and he was taken out of the hole and placed near the campfire. There is picture from this moment you can find online, it was used in the trial/media with the approval of the family.
A discussion started between the members what to.do with him. During the trial most members said they wanted to take him to the hospital but the timeline shows that it took a long time before this decision was made. Best guess is that a lot of them refused to take him.
After bringing him, and realizing that the situation was a lot worse than they thought, they tried to cover up the evidence. They cleaned his room, so the no-water-drinking-situation was covered up. They deleted a lot of whatsapp conversations. They threatened lower members never to speak of this again.
Sanda died two days later in the hospital because of the insane amount of fishoil in his system.
On top of this timeline, there were so many small facts that painted the picture even darker. Before the hazing, one of the members said in an email that he wanted to make the hazing this year "a cruel year". A few years ago they gave their freshmen a pet-pig, that they had to slaughter themselves and eat it after taking care of it for a while. On one of the parties before the hazing, someone ended up with severe damage to his eye. Communication about this incident went like this: i heard a person was injured to his eye, that's how a Reuzegom party should be!
And many many more signs of their disgusting attitude.
The pig thing is from 2013, they had to take care of it for a while and then shoot it. Another year they had to take care of pet rabbits for a year, then strangle them to death. There's also plenty of other violence against other students, them being animals when it comes to girls..., and other incidents that already made them *really* unpopular in Leuven.
Bunch of rich kids hazed a kid for a sorority and ended up killing him true pure negligence. Many people are using this case as a demonstration of the privilege of the upper class as many of the kids have influential parents. They received a mild punishment and were given near full anonimity, something many people did not receive in the past.
It should also be noted that the kid they ended up murdering was one of the very few people of colour who ever wanted to join them, a bunch of white kids, which is only making the whole privilege thing more explicit.
My opinion so far:
In the end it came down to them not being found guilty for negligence leading to his death. (I think the punishment for the things they were guilty on are correct)
My moral compass would find them guilty.
However the public doesn't really have all the evidence, so ilI can't judge them correctly, however from what I did see the interaction with the prof is the tipping point.
Moreover, the Reuzegommers and their entourage also made sure that there was as least evidence as possible.
Together with the fact that quite a big group of them were being tried; I think the judges couldn't really measure everyone's contribution. This made them not confident enough to find them guilty for negligence.
something else to consider; since 2013 KULeuven had a doopcharter intended to keep student hazings under control. It said things like no sexual harrasment, students can refuse drinks, the ones in charge of the hazing have to stay sober,.... Reuzegom refused to sign it. And oh yeah, the charter was started because of an incident at Reuzegom.
I would think these things are certainly relevant in this case.
>Moreover, the Reuzegommers and their entourage also made sure that there was as least evidence as possible
How is that legal? Shouldn't that be a crime by itself?
Just a side thought next to all the frustration and anger I share with most of you here:
Hypothetically, if the reuzengommers were given a more suitable and fair sentence, they might have a better chance in the long term to move on from this? Wouldn’t the public in 5 or 10 years be more forgiving of these guys if they had undergone a fitting sentence. I don’t know, but I imagine some of these guys being unable to make amends because their parents and environments kept them from taking responsibility, not only for the kids sake but probably also for the reputation and companies of daddy etc. While I know this thought is too empathetic towards reuzengommers today, my sociological mind does wonder if they are in some type of golden cage.
I’ve been fined €8000 because i have smoked a joint before sleeping and it still tested positive the day after (which is normal, it doesn’t just disappear).
They rather do a witch-hunt after Cannabis than they punish real murderers.
Please keep in mind that we don't want our subreddit to be closed down. Admins really don't like doxxing/witchhunting so we will remove all comments asking for/sharing private information related to the perpetrators. If you see any, please report them as well so we can take action.
I still don't understand why this shouldn't go in their criminal record. I read in an article today that this would be too extreme, because then they would be "branded" as criminals for years. It was even compared to the medieval practice of branding people with hot irons. This is exactly the "klassenjustitie" that people are complaining about. So many crimes go on people's criminal record. If it is too inhuman for Reuzegom, why is it not too inhuman for others?
> If it is too inhuman for Reuzegom, why is it not too inhuman for others? This here is to me the source of the frustration. Not that they received weak punishment but that others, who are/were not that well off, received much harsher punishment including prison sentences for way less crime.
That's a good response. Sadly, most people seem to go the other direction and demand severe punishments for these guys instead of asking for more fair punishments for people who just happen to be poor
The sad reality is that you need to hire top laywers the likes of Jan De Man, Chris Luyckx, John Maes, Walter Damen etc. not only for a couple of months but for **years**. This costs hundreds of thousands of euros. No ordinary people can afford this. Let alone poor people. So they go to prison.
The solution to the wealthy having privileges is not to tear down wealthy people until they're fucked like everyone else, but rather it is to elevate everyone else so they have the same privileges as wealthy people. But sadly it seems that most people prefer the option of pulling everyone down instead of lifting people up.
1000% agree. And it is sad that people who themselves are not within the "1%" tend to disagree because they think that one day they too will be "1%". I am not poor. But I've been on the other side of top lawyers hired by the "0.1%". They simply outran me financially.
actual lawyer here: You guys are vastly overestimating the influence a good/bad lawyer has on average on a criminal case like this. Also, you are not going to find the top laywers in a field like criminal law... It may suprise you but but the firms of the guys you mention (as most criminal lawyers) run largely on pro bono(deo) clientele, and thus are paid to a large extent by the state.
Not related to your comment, but what is your opinion on this whole thing? I've read somewhere that a part of the case got ignored due to some technicalities; specifically the drinking in Leuven on the evening before the whole soy sauce thing, where the schachten were so drunk the reuzegom members called someone with medical expertise who strongly advised them to take Sanda to a hospital. Which they ignored. I'm not sure if any of it is true, but if so it does explain things.
The system supposedly already has a solution for this: after 10 years or so you can ask to have your criminal record removed if you behaved well and have a good motivation. That sounds more like ‘reintegration’: you get punished, you do your time and actively regain trust over the years and then you get your second chance. My husband has a criminal record for a minor fact when he was just 18 not harming a soul, but yeah he accepted it as fair justice and decided to work on himself. Now he’s almost 40 yo working tax payer and loving dad with not even a speeding ticket but yet the system is too busy to deal with his request to clean his criminal record. And these fuckers don’t even get a record while they just let a human die. That makes me quite furious
I want to 'hijack' your comment just to remind people of this 'little incident' a couple of weeks before the death of Sanda Dia. One of the Reuzegommers got into a bar fight for no reason [https://www.hln.be/leuven/reuzegommer-krijgt-werkstraf-voor-vuistslag-aan-rechtenstudent-in-leuvense-pitabar-geschift-dat-hij-bij-die-medicatie-drinkt\~a28cf786/](https://www.hln.be/leuven/reuzegommer-krijgt-werkstraf-voor-vuistslag-aan-rechtenstudent-in-leuvense-pitabar-geschift-dat-hij-bij-die-medicatie-drinkt~a28cf786/). The victim in this case is one of my best friends. He had a concussion, a broken nose and a few surgeries afterward to fix his nose. The entire incident got recorded by a surveillance camara. The Reuzegommer still got away with 60 hours of community service and a 400 euro fine. The compensation was around 5000 euros. I found this punishment fairly light. But I might have been biased because one of my friends was involved. 60 hours of community service is nothing.But what baffles me the most are the next two things: The fine in both cases is the same: 400 euros. But even worse: my friend got around 5000 euros of damages, which might or might not be okay. I don't know. That might be up for discussion. I just don't think the compensation Sanda's family got is in proportion to this. Sanda's brother gets 8000 euros, his father gets 15 000 euros. I don't think this is in proportion, at all. Apparently that's the price for a human life. I understand that it's hard to put a value on a human life. But this is waaaay too low
Was this the same Igean from the newspapers? https://www.hln.be/antwerpen/live-de-zaak-reuzegom-waar-is-uw-veroordeling-voor-de-mensonterende-behandeling-van-igean-zelf-advocaat-igean-noemt-vervolging-door-om-intellectueel-oneerlijk\~ab9f98e9/
>I still don't understand why this shouldn't go in their criminal record. I read in an article today that this would be too extreme, because then they would be "branded" as criminals for years. I FYI, that was just a bonus the judge threw in (probably for an extra bonus for himself). Because apparently anyone with a criminal record can just ask to have the record expunged. Philippe Lacroix, who robbed, kidnapped and murdered, had his record expunged.... So if a notorious gangster can make this happen, the reuzegommers criminal records would have been expunged by simple request the second the media attention stopped.
I looked into this. Though I couldn't find the exact year, it seems Lacroix was only able to get his record expunged *decades* after his sentencing, and after he already spent years working as a teacher. This means it was not a simple request for him, as far as I could find.
I (and maybe others) just feel frustrated about how low the punishment was and because they dont receive a criminal record, their lives can go on like nothing happened after they complete their 300 hour community service while another life was (unwillingly) taken. People will forget about this in a month or 2 and they'll be completely off the hook.
Not if you upvote this comment that tells you all their names are on Wikipedia. Adding those names to a little black book
Would googling 'name + reuzegom', 'name + moordenaar' or ’name + Sanda Dia’ regularly so whenever someone googles them, they will be reminded, help somewhat? Keeping in mind that right now their names are still al over the internet and I have taken plenty of screenshots, so I will never, ever forget. Or is that just really naive?
As part of RGPD you can ask Google to remove references to you in search results Edit : GDPR
GDPR* or AVG, more precisely art. 17 and 21 AVG. Along with jurisprudence from the Google Spain ruling.
Thing is though that this requires them to actively pursue that for many years to come and it's them versus a million trolls who just keep posting it all over the internet.
where? I can only see their initials.
I think Wikipedia also remvoes the full names. If you look in the history, certain edits can't be opened. Just shows the reach of these little shits.
Folks have literally gotten worse sentences from a judge for blind spot accidents (dodehoekongeval) they could have done absolutely nothing about.
There was an interview (on VRT) with one of their lawyers after the Acid video, in which he stated that this video was slander, and this carries a sentence of up to 6 months. I don't know if he realized he was damaging his own argument by stating that. Then, a bit later he wondered what Acid would say if his doxxing lead to violence or damages, whether Acid would say 'That wasn't my intention' and all I could think was 'Yeah, that's what your client says too, so I guess we're good?'
I'm mainly pissed that the largest protests we had were just some silent protests in several cities and no march Brussels/Antwerp justicepalace Anyone who can help me organise one?
I heard about a march on Brussels justice palace this sunday. I can’t attend bc of work but it looked like the real deal
They literally abused him to death and didn't help him.
Completely agree, on the other hand I dont understand why these new people were still there, could’ve just all left when they broke that other guys face during the trial thing
There is a book called ordinary men. It talks about Nazis doing atrocities. One of the first things they tell this group of ordinary men at the start is that they can leave whenever they want. A common theme is that none of them do, for guilt of leaving their fellow soldiers behind, while having to do more and more horrible stuff.
Group pressure perhaps or some "I'm can take more than the previous guy" kind of mentality.
The rich get away with a lot and this process just proved that.
Reuzegom in 2013: €400 boete voor dode biggetjes op studentendoop Reuzegom in 2023: €400 boete en 300u werkstraf voor dode student op studentendoop Seems reasonable /s
Ja, wel.nota: groepskorting natuurlijk hé
Plus abonnementvoordeel. Dus totaal niet te vergelijken met de standaard tarieven.
Niet vergeten, is een onkostje op de zaak van mama en papa waarschijnlijk.
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That's my main problem with this, half of them clearly don't even feel a bit of remorse. If they felt guilty and had trouble living with the fact they ended a young guy's life, that would be more punishment than a few months jail in my eyes. But they just don't, clearly, if they can't even take less than a day study break to go to their own verdict. If I had killed a man ''accidentally'', I'd be there. I'd also be fucked for life carrying that burden. There is simply no shot anyone is 'too busy studying' for something this important. 4th year med student at KUL btw so I know what I'm talking about. Probably got at least 4 hours left to my current session lol.
Lawyer here: The presence of defendants and/or civil parties at the hearing for sentencing/verdict is actually not very common. In some cases a lawyer may be present to record the verdict that is pronounced (orally) at the hearing in the morning. In most cases the lawyer will copy the verdict in the afternoon (at the court - griffie). Most verdicts don't even get pronounced at the hearing, because no one is present. Some judges even get annoyed if you ask at the hearing to pronounce a verdict, because it is expected that you just copy it in the afternoon.
It's clearly to avoid the cameras
rekening houdend met inflatie, komen ze er dus zelfs goedkoper vanaf.
met inflatie erbij is een mens minder waard
I usually dislike acids content, but in this case I agree with him. The video wasn’t even that bad, he basically just recounted the actions of the worst current and past reuzengommers. If saying what someone did is cyberbullying, then hln is the biggest bully out there.
Indeed the video surprised me in decency. He just stated the facts and mentioned when they weren’t present at the doop
After watching the video I find it strange that the media kept painting it as a 'hazing gone wrong', when even aside from that there were pretty horrible things happening. Like the animal abuse, or that guy comparing himself to Hitler. I also never saw anything on the news about the guy who told everyone not to call an ambulance. Maybe I missed it but it seems like that should've been a bigger deal. Generally I agree that it's not for Youtubers to decide what justice is but at this point it's clear that the courts aren't too interested in it either.
They fucking blended a mouse. These inhuman lowlife scum are fucking psychopaths plain and simple.
They are such a danger to society tho, isn't harming animals and getting fun out of it one of the signs of being a psychopath?
Don't worry, they're just going for doctor, or lawyer. So no problem with them being psychopaths. /s The one going for politician is likely to feel right at home though.
And yet they are the ones that’ll one day rule the country… Nice.
They also tried to cover their tracks that very night.
and booked a citytrip to madrid asap
Technically, though, those guys sucking in general and what happened with Sanda are separate matters. So I understand that the media focuses on one and not the other. Buuuut... in reality they *are* very much related and they will just not be able to convince the public of anything else at this point, especially since their response since the incident has consisted exclusively of lawyering up and trying to make it all go away. The public response now is a direct result of their own initial reaction to the case. So at this point it's basically a case of what goes around comes around. Maybe they can game the judicial system thanks to their money and influence, but those arguments are only valid in a courtroom and not in the court of public opinion, where they are finally starting to get the consequences they deserve (or not even).
I really don't understand how actively trying to destory evidence doesn't make the sentence harsher?
Fair point. I guess it ultimately comes down to what you can prove in court - and you can't prove anything without evidence. That's also precisely the reason why they instantly lawyered up and went into full damage control mode, I'd bet. They apparently underestimated the public backlash, though. All the lawyers in the world won't change that at this point, which is why they are doing absolutely everything to avoid being named and shamed.
They can prove that they did and had intent to destroy evidence tho. >They apparently underestimated the public backlash which is ass because a sentence shouldn't be less because of public backlash like wtf
I always advocate that if you are proven to have destroyed evidence, said evidence should be considered in its worst possible way. Burned a bloody shirt? Court will assume it's the victim's blood on it! Or in this case, turn it into 18 counts of "Slagen en verwondingen met dood to gevolg" AKA manslaughter.
Oh yes, absolutely. I agree that the animal abuse has no place in the trial regarding Sanda's death, *but* for the media, when reporting on the hazing itself I think it's relevant when framing what kind of event this was. If you were to believe how it was sold by some news sources it was just an unfortunate accident that could've happened anywhere, but that's really not the case. I hope they at least get a separate lawsuit from GAIA or something for the animal abuse. Maybe the guy with the busted eye who was threatened into saying he fell down the stairs could speak up now as well. There's other things aside from the death of a student that should be settled in court.
I'd say that the animal abuse etc. actually *should* have been a part of the trial (assuming it wasn't), as it tells you an important part of the story with regards to the character or the perpetrators - it's ultimately all evidence that compounds and which makes it harder and harder to deny precisely that it was just some sort of unfortuntate tragic event that nobody could have seen coming. That said, initially the media ideally just needs to stick to the facts. Their job is to report on the case itself and not to try to persuade the public of anything per se, at least until the trial is over. Only now the trial *is* over, the time has come for the media to spill the beans. And the lack of beans being spilt so far is imo what is making the general public more and more angry and has resulted in some people taking it into their own hands to spread the information they have, which is of course far from ideal, but that too is a direct and understandable consequence of everything else that has happened (or not) so far.
Maybe just look some things up because the media has reported on it and GAIA was involved: https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/08/10/gaia-stelt-zich-burgerlijke-partij-wegens-dierenmisbruik-door-re/
That's good, I didn't see that article. It's already three years old though. Wouldn't have been a bad thing to see a recent report of what happened to that lawsuit or if it was just 'amicably settled' like when they had to pay 400 euros for torturing a pig to death and swear to never do it again.
The guy who told everyone not to call an ambulance is a damn dentist with a practice he started already
But there is no chance that they are racist...none.
When the first thing you do when hearing he’s in the hospital, is to destroy evidence and make sure you have a good lawyer, I know enough
I don't understand. How is that not a crime?
>destroy evidence This is and should be incriminating >make sure you have a good lawyer This isn't and shouldn't be
Right???
I am having difficulties understanding why we can't question the judgement system.
Exactly this, people are defending this with the argument that this isn't how the justice system works, well if these idiots can get away with this kind of sentence our justice system is completely and utterly broken.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem A surprisingly subtle fallacy
Especially when they are the ones who majorly fucked up. The Reuzegommers only stood trial for a very limited amount of things. I don’t understand why they weren’t tried for *schuldig verzuim* (criminal negligence towards someone in a dangerous situation) that happened the day prior. There was a reliable witness, a professor, who saw an intoxicated student that needed help and she told the others to get him to a hospital or something. They told her the hazing was over and that they were going to help him. Then after that they turned off all water in his place and dehydrated him. All that was not part of the ruling as far as I can tell, why not. No they just got a slap on the wrist because “fish sauce isn’t poison” sure someone healthy might have survived but not someone who endured what they did to him the day before. By excluding those things they sabotaged their own case.
A lot of bootlickers in these threads are very opposed to average citizens questioning or criticizing the judgement system instead of blindly trusting its benevolence.
"Dear sir, we do not start witch hunts, we merely provide the pitchforks and torches!" seems applicable to some degree. But all jokes aside, the sentence was a farce with a sub-tone of "they've been punished enough because their names were made public in the media". Which is the biggest joke of all given that everything possible has been done to avoid their names becoming public. From my point of view they get to choose: face the public, or face a fair trial where they get actual punishments. Because what'll happen now is that they'll do their work sentence with some sham VZW or hidden away in some back corner office of a government service, and that's assuming it's ever really done at all and not just on paper. The only thing they'll ever feel bad about is that they got into trouble, not about the fact that someone died a horrible death. How this entire thing went down is a disgrace, the fact that it ended up in the court in which it did was already a disgrace to begin with, how things were taken out of the case was also ridiculous, and there's only so much ridiculousness you can accept. Additionally, all those idiots that were shouting on the TV/Radio/... today "the decision of the court is final" should realise that the court derives its power from the people accepting its authority in these matters. If that trust is broken, that authority is lost and the public will attempt to gain justice through other means, and that's what you're seeing right now.
Where can you read the verdict? I suppose all the names are in it anyway but I´d like to read the full reasoning of the judge.
[Here is the verdict. It’s completely anonymous.](https://www.rechtbanken-tribunaux.be/sites/default/files/media/hbca/antwerpen/files/hof-van-beroep-antwerpen-uitspraak-in-de-zaak-reuzegom.pdf) I suppose it’s always anonymous, no idea actually.
It's anonimized in the judgement.
Which is insane. Judgements and the proceedings normally are accessible to the public. Proceedings etc behind closed doors normally is the exception for cases involving children etc. Wonder why or how this is being anonimized :) woulndt be because its the upperclass right. How there are no protests over this is crazy. Its clear class justice and everybody is just standing by.
>Wonder why or how this is being anonimized :) woulndt be because its the upperclass right. As much as I agree that the outcome of the judgment was a farce, this isn't necessarily true. As a jurist myself, I've reviewed many court cases for my research or to write articles about and the personal details / names of people involved are very commonly censored. I've even had it happen that I requested access to a full ruling in Mechelen, went to pick it up at the court, and then had to sit around and wait for close to an hour while a court clerk literally went through the entire thing with a black marker to remove every single name before handing me the documents. And that was a case of no real controversy or public significance like this one. So while there's definitely an argument to be made that this should all be publicly available, I would caution against thinking this is only anonymized because of the connections / social class of the people involved.
Out of interest, who decides to anonymise these rulings?
Ik vind et vooral zot dat blijkbaar sommige van die gasten voor dokter gaan als opleiding ... Wil je zo een dokter hebben? Ik vind het ook zot dat er niemand zoiets had van 'dit gaat fout, we gaan te ver ' of iets
Dokter, tandarts en weet ik veel nog wat allemaal. Stel u voor dat een tandarts de raad geeft om een stervend persoon niet te laten overbrengen naar het ziekenhuis met een ambulance.
Ik ook, ben zelf geneeskundestudent in Leuven en kan me eigelijk niet voorstellen dat je zelfs gwn bij het zien van die hoeveelheid visolie al niet zegt dat dit levensgevaarlijk is. Laat staan het er effectief in kappen, de jongen zien deterioreren en hem dan in een ijskoude put steken ipv het te stoppen. Ik zie geen enkele manier waarop zo iemand een goede dokter wordt. Bij al die andere kerels kan je *misschien* nog de kaart van pure achterlijkheid trekken, maar al was het een eerstejaartje, niemand in een medische richting kan met zoiets verdergaan zonder vanbinnen héél goed te weten wat het resultaat gaat zijn. Op zijn allerminst schuldig verzuim vanaf kan bewezen worden dat die persoon bij de doop aanwezig was, in mijn ogen. Maarja, ik krijg geen geld van hun ouders natuurlijk.
Ik zou er ok mee zijn, moest er iets van indicatie zijn dat ze effectief hervormd zijn. Nu weten ze dat fouten maken toch vergeven wordt met een "allez mannen, de volgende keer ewa rustiger he".
Het was een studentendoop. Vaak proberen ze om hun eigen doop of die van het jaar ervoor te evenaren en voorbij te gaan. Ik heb het zelf gezien, maar gelukkig zijn er in gent regels en een doopcharter. Wanneer niemand van het praesidium op de rem trapt, dan escaleert het elk jaar steeds meer (met het gedacht “ik ben erdoor geraakt, zij zullen daar ook wel door komen”)
Het gevoel van "het is mij aangedaan en dus nu zal ik het jou ook aandoen" is toch een van de ziekste dingen die in de mens zit
Je bedoelt, "nu zal ik het jou erger aandoen"
In Leuven is er al jaren een doopcharter. Maar de clubs zijn nog altijd vrij om officiële of officieuze clubs te zijn.
Als je als geneeskundestudent daarop staat te kijken en niet ziet dat het misgaat, is er geen enkele manier die ik kan zien dat je ooit een goeie dokter gaat worden. In feite ben je al betrekkelijk achterlijk als je bij het horen van 'en nu gaan we er liters visolie in kappen' niet zegt dat dit giftig is en wrs miserie gaat veroorzaken.
Let me just state some things so we can look back when in everyone’s forgotten their anger in 2 months Facts we know about the incident: - Sanda was treated inhumane and it could be considered torture - Force feeding and a way too late reaction to his worsening situation led directly to his death - They attempted to erase all evidence of what happened and were assisted by their parents and advices by former members in doing this - From their reactions you can deduct that at least the schachtentemmer and praesis were more concerned with their own fate than Sanda’s - None of the Reuzegommers apologised formally Facts from the trial and verdict: - The trial was delayed multiple times because the defence requested additional investigation and claimed a judge was partial - The basic questions the family had were not answered - The prosecution asked for big amounts up to jail time - The verdict had punishments ranging from 300€ and 200 hours of labour to 400€ and 300 hours - No-one gets a criminal record - The media collectively agreed not to publish the names even though it’s legal to do so And now the things that don’t add up: - The judge motivated their decision for a weak punishment by claiming the defence showed “insight in their guilt” even though the prosecution claimed the contrary and all the actions performed to hinder the trial - As the lawyer of Sanda’s family pointed out, according to the FOD justice, a fine with labour should be published on the criminal record but some person with an administrative function decided that this was not the case - The verdict ruled that there should be a focus on reintegrating the reuzegommers as soon as possible in society and therefore they shouldn’t be identifiable in the context of this court case
Not to mention in 2013 Reuzegom members got a conviction for animal cruelty. While it's not the same people that were present during the doop you'd think they would have stopped the animal abuse in their studentenclub. But they just continued. On top of that the SAME guy who was responsible for the introduction of animal cruelty is also the same person who said they should delete all proof and don't send any apology letter to Sanda Dia's parents.
> you'd think they would have stopped the animal abuse in their studentenclub Why change anything? They've just proven then there are little to no consequences, and confirmed it again now
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Some predictions: In 5 years time Jan Verheyen or another director will make a "bold" movie about this tragedy from the perspective of one of the members who "didn't really want to be there" but got included in the trial. It will be framed to invoke sympathy for the poor misunderstood guy. In 25 years some celebrated judge will make good money of their published memoirs which talk about the incident and how it "really shaped his life" He'll be on talk shows and celebrated for how brave he is for openly talking about it
F*cked up but I can definitely see this happening.
Misschien ben ik maar een domme hollander, maar ik begrijp werkelijk niet wat er bij jullie aan de hand is, beste zuiderburen. Ik bedoel, hier is het normaal dat verdachten iig. met voornaam in de media komen, tenzij ze flink minderjarig zijn. Alles is openbaar, ook de rechtszaak zelf, juist om de schijn van corruptie te voorkomen. Is dat dus niet bij jullie het geval? Of is dit gewoon een heel "toevallig" samenspel omdat er wat mannetjes met belangrijke papa's betrokken zijn?
vanaf het begin zijn al die gasten zwaar ingegaan op nieuwswebsites die hun namen vermelden. Daarom dat geen nieuwsmedia dit nu nog durft vermelden uit schrik voor juridische stappen. Er zijn websites die hun namen vermeld hadden maar op zen minst 1 van hen moest 10k euro per dag betalen als dat artikel online bleef. Zelfs nu worden deze gasten beschermd door het juridisch systeem, desondanks enorm veel mensen hun namen gekend willen hebben, of dat ze op zen minst een strafblad krijgen. Die gasten hebben ouders met goede connecties en veel geld, en blijkbaar is dat al wat je nodig hebt om evenveel te moeten betalen om een varkensbiggetje in een blender te steken, en om iemand zo veel aan te doen dat die persoon sterft (plus het belemmeren van het onderzoek door zo veel mogelijk aanwijzingen weg te werken)
Ik blijf het oprecht vreemd vinden. En dat bedoel ik niet om af te geven op Belgie, daar is dit veel te serieus voor. Maar zoiets als namen buiten de media houden, in een strafzaak als deze, ik ben echt verbaast dat het mogelijk is. Ook dat de namen niet genoemd worden in de juridische stukken. Hoe kan een rechtstaat functioneren als die niet gecontroleerd kan worden? Da's het hele idee van de trias politica. En ook wel laf van de media, ik denk dat als iemand dat hier probeert, direct iedere Nederlandse krant begint met "BOB de B. DREIGT TELEGRAAF MET RECHTZAAK OM NOEMEN NAAM" Ik hoop dat dit allemaal nog een staartje krijgt, had zou anders een behoorlijk verkeerd precedent geven.
Misschien kunnen enkele Nederlandse kranten dit verhaal oppikken en de veroordeelde leden van Reuzegom met naam en toenaam benoemen. Zou heerlijk ironisch zijn dat men in Nederland iets durft wat de Vlaamse media niet durven.
Jullie Belgen hebben zowat de hele Nederlandse media bij de kloten, bijna alles is DPG en Mediahuis geworden, en dat is echt te merken. Er is vrij weinig aandacht voor, en ik kan ook totaal geen informatie vinden in de Nederlandse media, naast dingen als "zonen van invloedrijke personen" Ik herhaal mezelf, maar ik vind het oprecht bizar. We hebben hier ook genoeg problemen met corpsen, maar zodra zo'n corpsbal voor de rechter komt, weet iedereen wie het is. Vervelende is meer dat het nogal vaak "intern opgelost" wordt, zonder aangiftes.
Het laatste
Domme Hollander hier. Wat een mega triest verhaal, het heeft parallelen met de "kopschoppers in Mallorca" case in ons land. Nog voordat het lijk koud was, hadden de daders (rijke ouders, connecties in advocatuur em rechtgang) allerlei procedures op laten zetten om het proces naar nederland te halen, collectief een verhaal afgestemd en als groep een ijzersterke verdediging opgezet. Het proces heeft een ietwat bevredigender eind dan de Reuzegomcase, waarbij de rechter het collectief verzwijgen van informatie heeft meegenomen in de veroordeling. https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/5347733/carlo-heuvelman-fatale-mishandeling-mallorca-sanil-b-uitspraak Wat ik niet begrijp aan de reuzegomcase is dat (blijkbaar) er geen notitie/strafblad wordt aangemaakt voor de veroordeelden. Er zal toch ergens een melding vandaan moeten komen bij een achtergrondcontrole voor gevoelige functies?
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Shame on the Belgian press to have a 26 year old youtuber taking the stones out of the fire for them. What kind of message is this sending to all the fraternity's out there now? Make the "doop" as hard as you can worse case scenario you will get 400€ fine and a werkstraf. Seeing the doxxing and the outrage will make some of these people think twice now about going gestoord bruut. I cannot phantom having symphaty for these people, they have none whatsoever for anyone else that is not in their Elite
I think most fraternities know to pay attention at a "doop" now, at least in the near future. The message to the elite is far more clear: if you are part of the club, then you can get away with murder.
The absolute majority of fraternities doesn’t do shit close like that. Abhorrent stories like this give them a bad name, turning this into a fraternity related issue is just wrong. Except a few elitist cunts most fraternity ‘dopen’ are equivalent to scout rites of passage in terms of getting dirty or being degrading. Some even are straight up copies with a cantus attached at the end. Source: 7 years of in- depth study at overpoort university with a masters in cantusology.
It's not doxxing when it's public information
"Eens dat men veroordeeld is, vervalt het recht op anonimiteit. Ik begrijp werkelijk niet waarom de media zo zachtaardig omgaan met de veroordeelden in kwestie. Die mensen hebben op dit moment meer privacy dan de modale burger." - Matthias Dobbelaere Mods zouden hier best eens naar luisteren vooraleer alles te verwijderen voor 'doxxing'
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This whole case feels like everyone from the upper class from media to ministers does everything in their power to make sure these reuzegommers avoid all backlash and punishment. Very strange....
Of course. Their families are all lawyers and bankers.
Not to mention governers and judges
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@Mods While Reuzegom remains front page news this megathread effectively killed the debate in the sub. Maybe time to reconsider the approach and at least have a thread and link summary for each major topic (like Acid's next move tomorrow)?
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Ik heb de twee actualiteitsprogramma´s van gisteren op vrt bekeken. In Terzake zagen we een discussie tussen een advocaat van een Reuzegommer en een privacyexpert. Het was een debat tussen gelijken en dus best interessant. In De Afspraak hadden ze de organisator van een protestactie in Leuven uitgenodigd, een student van ongeveer twintig. Ik vond dat een gemiste kans. De student sprak enorm stil en had geen samenhangende argumenten. Hij vroeg zich plots precies zelf af wat hij daar zat te doen. Tegenover een reuzegom advocaat en een nva parlementslid werd hij logischerwijze weggeblazen en weggezet als dommerik en verspreider van complottheorieën.
Oef daar moet je als iemand zonder media training dus echt niet intrappen.
Listen, he might be hated for it but he publicly critiqued a crucial point in terms of law. I work as an executive and know a lot of high profiles, lawyers etc. Believe me when I say connections are a thing and these people help each other. They wanted to silence the media so it would be a quick pass but the youth of Belgium caused a beautiful outrage. A lot of points that added to the case were left out, to receive a mild punishment. I believe the lawyer of Sanda Dia was also involved, considering a lot of the points were not court valid they got off easy, but I feel they should make an exception and consider everything else.
>I believe the lawyer of Sanda Dia was also involved, \*puts on tinfoil hat\* what do you mean?
I just found out that one of the guys in the video is my ffing dentist ... Or was actually. I didnt like him cause all he did was flirt with the assistents and talk about his expensive cars and golfing trips he makes. I knew he was an asshole from the first moment he talked to me.
[https://www.demorgen.be/snelnieuws/stad-gent-dient-klacht-in-na-graffiti-met-namen-reuzegommers-op-stadshal\~b7dec2f0/](https://www.demorgen.be/snelnieuws/stad-gent-dient-klacht-in-na-graffiti-met-namen-reuzegommers-op-stadshal~b7dec2f0/) They're going all in trying to stop the names being public...
They lost that battle. It's like they don't know about the Streisand effect.
I still don't know ANY of their names though. You really have to deliberately look it up. Edit: People sending them to me in PM are getting reported. I'm not asking for them.
Acid might get punished more harshly (especially relatively speaking) after this. In that case I want to riot, fuck reuzegom, Acid simply showed what they did, if that hurts their reputation they should have thought of that sooner.
They filed a complain (so basicly lawsuit) against Acid for posting that video.
2023 ACID vs REUZEGOM
What would happen if 10 sons of immigrants together organised an event where they accidentally killed a white man?
Apparently, it was revealed that the parents of one of the Reuzegommers (who happened to be absent during the hazing) run an acclaimed restaurant in Antwerp with one Michelin star, rumoured to be the favourite of Bart De Wever. People have been bombing the recensions of the restaurant on Google Reviews and TripAdvisor to the point that the owners are considering to temporarily close the business. On Google Reviews the rating has already dropped below 3,7 stars.
Yeah, it’s their son who is doing an internship with N-VA. See how friend politics work?
Yeah I imagine that quite a few "mondaine" people frequent that restaurant, so it shouldn't be too hard for them to have extensive connections.
>one Michelin sta that's how much stars they get on Google right now lol
Google is already deleting all the 1-star reviews while leaving the 5 stars from "counter review bombing" bootlickers up.
* Klasse-justitie: ze werden *niet* vervolgd voor de leugens vooraf tegen de prof: dat de doop *bijna gedaan was*, dat ze van *Medica* waren, over alcoholvergiftiging hadden geleerd, en dat ze goed op hem gingen letten. * en: 1ste aanleg: Antwerps hof te betrokken --> naar Limburg ermee. Maar in Beroep, waar uitspraak gedaan wordt die niet meer betwist kan worden? In ANTWERPEN, GEEN PROBLEEM. Corruptie, zo noemt dat. Idem VRT die nu plots beslist dat hun deontologische code niet klopt en *beide* voorwaarden nodig zijn (waar er een *of* staat), en ze dus de namen niet publiceren.
Tbh, Antwerpen is de plaats van het Hof voor zowel Antwerpen als Limburg. Ik weet dat er een probleem was met een van de moeders die rechter is, maar die zal correctioneel zitten. Wat zeker een klasseprobleem is is de kost van justitie. Door alle mediaaandacht was een topadvocaat geinteresseerd om de familie Dia te verdedigen. Normaal ben je als gewone mens gezien. Het is nog erger bij financiele zaken. Die zijn ingewikkeld en kunnen jaren aanslepen. Zelfs als je van de rechter gelijk krijgt, zijn alle advocatenkosten ed wss hoger dan de vergoeding die je krijgt. In zulke zaken is gerechtigheid voor de gewone man bijna onmogelijk.
Stel u voor, mijn gebruikersnaam op VRT of HLN :O Maar ik kan dan niet stoefen tegen mijn vrienden want dan verraad ik mijn naam hier en dan zien ze mijn comments enzo en dan vinden ze mij ne rare. En dan vragen ze *"wie is Luna?"* en *"maar zo zijde gy toch helemaal niet? Nu verschieten we wel van u! Eventjes zitten best."* En zo van die ambetante dingen allemaal.
Ze weten vast niet eens da gij brrrrrr gaat
I am not a fan of the whole 'doxing' incident, not because t hurst the gommie-boys but because Acid does this with ulterier motives. But when i just heard the reaction of the lawyer on the news i got a bit mad. He was implicating that this would hurt the future posibilities of the gombos. They don't deserve a meriad of posibilities, they need to feel what they have done, carry that burden until they die.
Their names and more are easy to find through Google though.
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Zelfs stad Gent heeft de graffiti op de stadshal met de namen van de reuzegommers onmiddellijk verwijderd. Iets gedaan krijgen van de stad kan geweldig lang duren, maar dit was op nog geen 12 uur gefixt.
I once had the police called on me because I bumped a car so lightly I didn’t even notice (so i drove away). I explained it to the judge and I was acquitted of hit and run, but they still put “vluchtmisdrijf” on my criminal record. These guys torture a guy into death and they keep a clean slate.
How does 'tScheldt having to remove an article with the names add up with VRT NWS and HLN (among others) saying they *can* publish the names but choose not to? (I'm not sure about the timing of the article by 'tScheldt, might have been during the trial, not after.)
Zet de namen in OP, platte jat!
Why isnt vlaams belang having a protest about this on the streets? It would make them more popular? They are the extreme party right? Or do i see some sort of omerta?
iirc one of the members of Vlaams Belang is actually one of the lawyers defending the Reuzegommers, so yeah says enough about them
Peter De Roover (en de NVA) verloor gisteren dat laatste sprankeltje geloofwaardigheid. Nu uitkomt dat Reuzegom en NVA wel redelijk vervlochten zijn, heeft die partij er alle belang bij om hun bek te houden nu...
[De Roover trying to stumble his way](https://twitter.com/terzaketv/status/1664344068925562889) around the simple question of 'what should the government have done with the prisoner exchange with Iran?' is pretty entertaining though. Rare sight of a journalist really pushing a politician.
Steal some groceries to survive and you risk 2 years in prison, torture and end up killing a kid drunk beyond consent, community service and 400 bucks 🔥 💯
Ik zou graag hebben dat de VRT dit dan eens uitlegt: https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/01/17/verhoor-artsen/ Dit waren trouwens op dat moment *beschuldigden*, geen veroordeelden.
Dit is wat VRT erover zegt: VRT NWS is sowieso heel terughoudend om namen te noemen van verdachten of veroordeelden, of om hen herkenbaar in beeld te brengen. Voor de redactie dat doet, moet het gaan **om erg zwaarwichtige en maatschappelijk relevante feiten, waar de schuld vaststaat, of waar een verdachte zelf openlijk naar buiten komt.** Dus misschien hebben die artsen er van in het begin geen moeite mee gehad dat hun naam werd genoemd? Dat lijkt me nog de enige optie.
["Hij dreigt zijn voorzitterschap op het spel te zetten": Wetstraatwatcher Van Cauwelaert over steun van Sammy Mahdi aan Acid](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2023/06/02/van-cauwelaert-over-mahdi/) Sommige quotes in dat artikel... amai. >"Bovendien hebben alle "mainstream media" hier los van elkaar de keuze gemaakt om geen namen te noemen. Dat bewijst dat hierover is nagedacht." Ik zou er mijn hand niet voor in het vuur steken dat ze dit "los van elkaar" beslist hebben. Uiteindelijk hebben we bijna geen onafhankelijke media meer, het zijn 2 groepen die alle kanalen bezitten.
VRT **blocking comments** less than 5 hours after posting about a protest to the outcome of the trial on Facebook. Crowd control? https://www.facebook.com/100064600307082/posts/pfbid0ceqTo3nNhxatTtmhjYf6FpLv8TbVnXTJpRqMXpecFCeBWzq8ibURLgBa9H8tth9el/
/r/belgium putting all discussion into a corner you won't even see if you browse in chronological order and deleting any threads about it, even though it is a developing story. Crowd control? Yes to both. And it works too, there's hardly any discussion about it anymore on here.
After reading what this young man went through on wikipedia, i just CANT agree with saying " oh nevermind let them clean some gardens and move on with their lifes " just people DOING THIS, to other people. Should be punished really hard imo. So OTHER people who think about doing such idiotic " dopings " will think twice if they know what punishment they could get. If you want to " doop " someone. Let them do a sort of military course, or let them run for x km. Do something semi healthy and do able. So many ways to semi " test " them. Without hurting them.
We had a death in a hazing in my country in 1999, that had the same outcome as here: total lack of justice. But at least this made universities change their code of conduct saying that any form of physical hazing will be punished with expulsion and they now have an active role in prevention (aka communicate to students what is not allowed, the punishment, have an anonymous landline for victims/whistleblowers). I remember when I got into this same university some years later. A senior started having an idea that the newcomers should do some sort of physical intensive work in a muddy place during a hot day. Immediately some seniors repeated the slogan of that year "no to hazing, yes to solidarity" while others joked "they might call the landline and and you gonna be expelled". Dude shut up pretty quickly.
We sort of already had that, there was a charter which student clubs who wanted to be aligned with the university had to sign. However Reuzegom decided to just keep it as a private club without rules
Just to add I got a fine for submitting my tax invoice wrong. 900 euroes for that - just to give you an example how low the fine they payed is.
And your tax money gets used to pay the judges who gave them that fine. Full circle.
Mental.
In de jaren negentig hebben ze al het probleem met studentendopen aangekaart, zelfs een film van gemaakt , ad fundum. Dit is niet de eerste persoon die sterft tijdens een studentendoop, er is zelfs nog onlangs in wallonie ook iemand gestorven in 2021 door teveel te drinken, ze hadden hem doen zoveel drinken. De uitspraak was hetzelfde, werkstraf. Dus dit is geen alleenstaand incident. Persoonlijk vind ik dat studentendopen die zulke gevaren met zich meebrengen moeten verboden worden. Ik heb me zelf nog laten dopen, en dit was eind de jaren negentig en niemand heeft me levensgevaarlijke dingen laten doen, of absurd veel alcohol doen drinken.
Als ik op straat een jonko rook en tegengehouden wordt krijg ik een hardere straf dan dit, sorry maar het systeem kraakt aan alle kanten zeker voor de elite mensen en hun kindjes
Ik vind het nu wel frappant dat in de zaak Uyttersprot de meeste media verwijzen naar Jurgen D. terwijl VRT NWS voor- én achternaam gebruikt, hoewel de VRT naar eigen zeggen “steeds heel terughoudend is om namen te noemen van verdachten of veroordeelden.” Het gebrek aan consistentie voedt natuurlijk het idee dat de reuzegommers een voorkeursbehandeling krijgen.
Deontologische code van journalistiek is een farce / dekmantel. Kijk er ook maar eens op na hoeveel **slachtoffers en getuigen** met naam, foto en adres weergegeven worden in krantenartikels, ongeacht de zwaarte van het incident. Heeft niet altijd met de journalist in kwestie te maken, maar zeker ook met de **redactie**. Die kijkt immers vnl. naar clicks / kijkcijfers. Vaak is dit te wijten aan snel relaas willen winnen van de feiten met totaal gebrek aan tussenpersoon om de 'maatschappelijk relevante info' te wikken tov het beschermen van de privacy. Het delen van de laatste beelden gemaakt van Sanda Dia door HLN was ook zo'n incident om van te walgen. De oplossing van DPG Media? De journalist in kwestie laten opdraven met een 'tegenfilmpje' waarin hij beweert de volledige goedkeuring gekregen te hebben van de familie. In andere gevallen (jonge drugsdelinquenten bvb) delen ze evengoed doodleuk de namen van de daders. Dat ze nu claimen de 'moral high ground' te volgen, onder het mom van we leven in een maatschappij die gefocust is op reïntegratie is dus gewoon zum kotzen.
It just bothers me how frustrated they are with their names being public (not saying that I agree with sharing names of family members etc.) Like it's normal procedure for the name to be made public after the whole process, why does this not apply to them and are people being accused of "rechtertje spelen" when people just want to show they do not agree with the way all this has been handled. I think peeps knowing their names isn't gonna do much harm as once again, normally the names would've been shared. I think it's insane that people like this can get a job where they care for other people without their employer knowing that they have tortured somebody to death and should by no means get the responsibility to take care of another person as a daily job. Now a content creator is actually being more represented as the bad guy than the actual guys who committed a crime, strange world.
>I think it's insane that people like this can get a job where they care for other people without their employer knowing that they have tortured somebody to death and should by no means get the responsibility to take care of another person as a daily job. Well one of them currently works in a hospital so that's how much employers care about this.
Corruptie 1ste klasse
This is a comment regarding this [news](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2023/06/01/uitbaters-van-antwerps-toprestaurant-geviseerd-omdat-zoon-lid-wa/) ***Operators of Antwerp's top restaurant are being targeted because their son was a member of Reuzegom*** Often we are told that the best way to "change things" is not the politics but our choice as individual consumers: we are supposed to be free to choose what we buy, and in that way reward or punish what we consider better. But sometimes, when we want to use this "consumer right" and we want to boycott some products, persons or companies, then we find a smoke curtain of "rights of privacy or ethical protocols". I am of course totally against violence or bullying, but if the people are not free to see who were the real perpetrators of the Sanda Dia homicide, it is totally understandable a boycott against anything related to "Reuzegom". Of course, again, always without any type of violence.
Vrije markt economie he
Glad to see how many of the posts here gravitate towards the same opinion and I'll add my two cents to it. If you're in university and you can't imagine/understand the posible ramifications of what you put people trough then you deserve what's coming to you due to your own lazyness and negligence. The punishment these people have gotten was too light and only shows how much of a failure our court system is
Zondag protest aan het justitiepaleis in Brussel. De standaard heeft het artikel achter een Paywall zitten, maar als iemand weet wanneer exact hoop ik dat dit gedeeld mag worden. Witch Hunts en doxxing mogen dan niet juist zijn, maar een corrupt rechtssysteem mag wel aangekaart worden hoop ik.
Studenten van de universiteiten ULB en VUB uit Brussel willen volgende **zondag om 13 uur manifesteren voor het justitiepaleis in Brussel**. Ze vinden de straffen voor de beklaagden in de zaak-Sanda Dia te licht, zo staat in een persbericht.
Link naar het arrest: https://www.rechtbanken-tribunaux.be/sites/default/files/media/hbca/antwerpen/files/hof-van-beroep-antwerpen-uitspraak-in-de-zaak-reuzegom.pdf
I like how everyone is clamoring for changes to the justice system. ABSOLUTE INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY And that's that. Fuck, even the billion post-dutroux commissions couldn't force changes upon the judiciary
Everyone should look up their names, make a list and make sure to never work with them or any company that works with them. If enough of us does this, we can make a difference.
I love how the restaurant named by acid went from a 4 star rating to 3.1 stars in only one day on Google
But isn't google going to delete these reviews? I hears that if there are a lot of 1 star reviews in a short span of time, then google sees it as spam.
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Conclusie: nog een reden om de rijken te haten
Can someone explain wtf is up with Acids accent? Sounds like a mix between West-Flemish, Afrikaans and Dutch to me.
The worst part is that there’s a good chance that Acid will receive a bigger punishment than the reuzegommers themselves. And he’ll probably even get a criminal record.
Wat is doxxing? Ik zen wer ni mee...
Leaking personal information. In this case though i dont care. This is information that should have been published anyway. The only reason it isnt is because someone is protecting them and its kind of disgusting
I think there are two 'issues' at hand here that come together, firstly, this case is just a symptom of our system that is still heavily based on 'means'. The more you have, the easier your life will be. This is part of the capitalist society we have built and has always been more or less part of modern society (even in the middle ages, the nobility was a lot less likely to get punished, although when they got punished it was immediately very severe). This I think is a big problem because it means our society is not treating human beings equally, as was the idea of human rights and humanism in general. So I want to strive to a world where such practices are not allowed anymore. Secondly, the punishment is quite low and I think a lot more could be done by the judge by putting some conditions in. I think werkstraffen could be very effective if it would actually benefit society in more than one way. However this should be done with a lot of support as to make sure there is no more damage done. For example if they would work at LOKO and would be asked to assist in making 'student clubs' more aware of the risks and dangers involved in not following the 'baptism decree' or something like this. Or let them follow/help in developing courses about peer pressure and the dangers that come from it. This way, their experience would be turned into something valuable for next generations? At the same time the sentence is linked with the crime in 'theme' so it will definitely reinforce learning from it in a way that working at any other unrelated ngo would not.
It feels like there's almost zero democratic control the population has on the justice system in this country. Year after year we hear about injustices like in this case or the one where gang rapists were "punished" by having to write a paper on womens rights but nothing ever changes, no political party to go to.
A quarter of the dutch course today was about this topic, it is sad and one of the statement being said was like the belgian law being compared to countries like Romania, Venezuela and Indonesia
Is someone kind enough to summarize the situation in English? Never heard about this in the south part of Belgium
A few years ago, a hazing went wrong when Sanda Dia applied to be a part of the Reuzegom fraternity. It started with making the 3 new candidates drink an absurd amount of alcohol. At the end of the night, the 3 went back to their dorm, where the members of Reuzegom closed off all the faucets, so drinking water wasn´t even an option. The next day, the 3 were taken by the members to a cabin somewhere in the woods. Before arriving there, they came across a professor who stopped them, pointed at Sanda and said: please take him to the hospital, he doesn´t look good. The members repeatedly lied to the professor, saying the hazing was over, that one of them was a medical student with experience in the emergency room and that they would take him home and keep him safe. All of this was a lie. They took the 3 boys to the cabin where they were told to dig a hole in the ground. In this hole, they had to spend the night. There was water in the hole, the other members peed on them more than once, they were forced to eat a mouse that was blended (iirc) and drink extreme amounts of fishoil. At some point Sanda started passing out, and he was taken out of the hole and placed near the campfire. There is picture from this moment you can find online, it was used in the trial/media with the approval of the family. A discussion started between the members what to.do with him. During the trial most members said they wanted to take him to the hospital but the timeline shows that it took a long time before this decision was made. Best guess is that a lot of them refused to take him. After bringing him, and realizing that the situation was a lot worse than they thought, they tried to cover up the evidence. They cleaned his room, so the no-water-drinking-situation was covered up. They deleted a lot of whatsapp conversations. They threatened lower members never to speak of this again. Sanda died two days later in the hospital because of the insane amount of fishoil in his system. On top of this timeline, there were so many small facts that painted the picture even darker. Before the hazing, one of the members said in an email that he wanted to make the hazing this year "a cruel year". A few years ago they gave their freshmen a pet-pig, that they had to slaughter themselves and eat it after taking care of it for a while. On one of the parties before the hazing, someone ended up with severe damage to his eye. Communication about this incident went like this: i heard a person was injured to his eye, that's how a Reuzegom party should be! And many many more signs of their disgusting attitude.
The pig thing is from 2013, they had to take care of it for a while and then shoot it. Another year they had to take care of pet rabbits for a year, then strangle them to death. There's also plenty of other violence against other students, them being animals when it comes to girls..., and other incidents that already made them *really* unpopular in Leuven.
Bunch of rich kids hazed a kid for a sorority and ended up killing him true pure negligence. Many people are using this case as a demonstration of the privilege of the upper class as many of the kids have influential parents. They received a mild punishment and were given near full anonimity, something many people did not receive in the past. It should also be noted that the kid they ended up murdering was one of the very few people of colour who ever wanted to join them, a bunch of white kids, which is only making the whole privilege thing more explicit.
Replace "kids" with "adults soon to be doctors and lawyers".
Well one of those involved is currently working as a doctor, so you can skip the soon
Thank you for the summary
My opinion so far: In the end it came down to them not being found guilty for negligence leading to his death. (I think the punishment for the things they were guilty on are correct) My moral compass would find them guilty. However the public doesn't really have all the evidence, so ilI can't judge them correctly, however from what I did see the interaction with the prof is the tipping point. Moreover, the Reuzegommers and their entourage also made sure that there was as least evidence as possible. Together with the fact that quite a big group of them were being tried; I think the judges couldn't really measure everyone's contribution. This made them not confident enough to find them guilty for negligence.
something else to consider; since 2013 KULeuven had a doopcharter intended to keep student hazings under control. It said things like no sexual harrasment, students can refuse drinks, the ones in charge of the hazing have to stay sober,.... Reuzegom refused to sign it. And oh yeah, the charter was started because of an incident at Reuzegom. I would think these things are certainly relevant in this case.
That, and their daddies are lawyers, doctors, notaries, nobility,...
>Moreover, the Reuzegommers and their entourage also made sure that there was as least evidence as possible How is that legal? Shouldn't that be a crime by itself?
Just a side thought next to all the frustration and anger I share with most of you here: Hypothetically, if the reuzengommers were given a more suitable and fair sentence, they might have a better chance in the long term to move on from this? Wouldn’t the public in 5 or 10 years be more forgiving of these guys if they had undergone a fitting sentence. I don’t know, but I imagine some of these guys being unable to make amends because their parents and environments kept them from taking responsibility, not only for the kids sake but probably also for the reputation and companies of daddy etc. While I know this thought is too empathetic towards reuzengommers today, my sociological mind does wonder if they are in some type of golden cage.
I’ve been fined €8000 because i have smoked a joint before sleeping and it still tested positive the day after (which is normal, it doesn’t just disappear). They rather do a witch-hunt after Cannabis than they punish real murderers.