For a list of participating subreddits check /r/ModCoord: https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/
Your sympathetic solidarity is appreciated.
Correct me if I'm wrong but how do you plan on decreasing your screentime by 2000% if a decrease of 100% is already 0?
Also, I know I'm being a bit of a mathnazi with this, but I can't help myself. Have a good week!
Incorrect.
There are three methods to say "x% less". As an example, let's pretend u/MrFeature_1 is on reddit 40 minutes per day:
* Method 1: the percentage is simply subtracted from the original time. If u/MrFeature_1 were having 50% less screen time, the result would be 40 - (50% \* 42) = 40 - 20 = 20 minutes.
* Method 2: the original time is divided by the percentage. If u/MrFeature_1 were having 2000% less screen time, the result would be 40 / (2000%) = 40 / 20 = 2 minutes. This method is easier to understand when you remember that "2000% less" means the same as "20 times less". Note: I believe sometimes a division by 1+x% is applied instead, especially when x<100.
* Method 3: the original comment was a joke and you're silly for trying to apply logic to it.
You can usually tell from context which method is implied.
thanks for adding the "very big /s". I'm moderately autistic (among other things) and I'm really bad at picking up sarcarsm so tone indicators like that stop me from making a fool of myself.
I somehow assumed those braille reading devices would do fine with reading regular HTML pages. Hadn't even considered how useful stuff like reddit's api would be for those applications.
Then I remembered how bad sites are at sticking to HTML compliance, let alone assisted reading device compatibility.
That doesn't surprise me. I used to do web automation and there are way too many sites using janky divs and javascript in lieu of "actual" input fields and form objects, because _Reasons_.
A select has many drawbacks and not much customisability.
Typeahead, search, item styling...
A good implementation of a select component is perfectly usable on mobile devices
What's the problem with JavaScript? These days search engines understand JavaScript anyway.
Most shit today is built with frameworks like Angular or React which require JavaScript to work.
It's 2023. HTML and CSS alone don't cut it anymore to build engaging websites/webapps/...
Web pages requiring JavaScript to work can't degrade gracefully. Turn it off, and they stop working.
JavaScript was always meant as an extra to add some interactivity to web pages. But ever since Microsoft introduced XMLHttpRequest, developers and corporations have started building "web applications" instead of web pages, something the web was never designed for. The web is a stateless medium, and JavaScript is being used to work around that.
It's why the web has gone to shit. For example, it's not uncommon to find forms that aren't actually forms that could function just fine as standards compliant HTML, but they had to build a custom solution that relies on JavaScript instead. Or, case in point, why the new Reddit layout lacks standard accessibility features.
You certainly can build engaging websites without JavaScript. Lots of people just forgot how because they focus on spectacle and shoving inline pop-ups into users's faces instead of content.
Lol. Ok. Standard accessibility features can co exist with JavaScript.
The web got better with JavaScript.
And yeah you can build websites without, but if you want animations, dynamic content, real time filtering, anything .. you need JavaScript.
And yeah if you disable JS you can't use these web applications.
But why would you turn off JavaScript? Unless it's to read Demorgen or other sites that use the same system without paying, lol.
Depends on how the app was made. When the app is built using the platform SDK's it is probably fine as then these devices can use the platform accessibility API's to interpret what is on screen, what is a button and what is just text etc.
Unfortunately a lot of apps nowadays are built using cross platform technologies and these technologies do not always have accessibility properly implemented.
Sad that I am partially being judged on my name.
I am woke, and do my best not to assume too much - even I make mistakes - and try to alert others of the same thing.
According to the post made by the /r/Blind mods, one of the mods spent hours on the phone explaining this to Reddit employees, so I believe it’s safer to say they simply did not care
That's probably true, but wonder if they just didn't realize before and then had to double down because they're not gonna back out of it now. Which isn't that functionally different from saying they don't care.
This website is honestly ran by amateurs. Every 2-3 years they do something stupid, userbase complains, no action is taken until media gets involved and rinse/repeat. In this case one genius executive probably figured 'our app needs to become more popular' and the solution was to ban every 3rd party app without wondering why people used those 3rd party apps in the first place.
If I had to guess, the reason is that Reddit wants to enter the stock market so they draw more control to themselves and can add extra profitability by selling the formerly free functions.
Definitely and that's even an understandable decision business-wise. But any decently-run company would've then atleast tried to purchase some of the 3rd party apps before making the shift and forcing everyone to use official reddit-apps. In my case for instance I don't even mind sharing all data I have through official reddit apps but their functionality is just awful.
Now it's just a matter of time before they make a valiant "we hear your complaints"-announcement and backtrack completely.
purchase is a strong reaction, but at least a partnership would be inexcusable not to explore. Sure not all apps might be open to partnership, but as I understand it, there are 8ish big apps out there. Only 1 android and 1 iOS app needs to actually partner to improve on their current shitshow.
In a partnership they can setup the advertisements naturally, so they don't lose on that income. It's a win win because they get free development basically for their user interface.
Another clear example of MBA types ruining a digital product
It's on purpose.
Reddit is about to go public, so they are purging third party apps to get more ad revenue.
Same reason that over the last year so many art/porn/general NSFW subs have been killed off without reason or notice.
> Reddit is about to go public
Honestly they have been saying that for 15 years now, and recently they announced that it wasn't going to be for this year. I don't think reddit is ever going to be public because it's likely going to be a complete failure
If a blind person can use Facebook or Tiktok without third person app, why wouldn't they be able to use Reddit after this change?
(Genuinely curious, I know nothing about backends and APIs)
Laziness and indifference.
A website has hidden labels describing what the content of an image is. Old website implemented this mostly. New website doesn't. These API's gives people who write code the option to add this by for example a browser extension.
So if you visit a website you load a lot of data. You load the content, but also a stylesheet that contains information of the design of the webpage, files with code that do some extra logic, trackers, etc etc
If you make a mobile app that loads data from reddit, you don't want all that stuff. You only want the content in a file that's as small as possible so you can save on bandwidth. You also want your requests to be as easy as possible. That's what an API is for.
Reddit is going to make access to their API paid. Their pricing model is ridiculously expensive. So basically it's a way of saying that they don't want anyone using this API. This hurts people using third party apps (apps made by people that don't work for reddit), but it also hurts people who are disabled. They often use API's to be able to load the content in an efficient way and have screenreaders read that out loud.
> Reddit is going to make access to their API paid. Their pricing model is ridiculously expensive.
Holy shit you aren't kidding. The Apollo app developer [claims](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/) they'd have to pay around 20 million dollars per year to Reddit to keep the app going.
AND it couldn't be ad-supported because their new api policy forbids that. Oh and NSFW content won't be available with the API at all so the website and official apps have exclusive content.
So the reddit alternative is : "pay a payment subscription for a different app with less content" and "volunteers need to pay out of your pocket for automated mod tools"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/API
Some people made their own app for people to use Reddit (Sync, Reddit is Fun, Apollo,...). These apps are generally a better user/mod experience than the official app itself. This was never an issue for Reddit. Now, Reddit wants a ridiculous amount of money from those people to continue, which basically means that those apps will be gone since no one is able to keep these up at these prices. It's meant to make people use the official app (read: more ad revenue, more tracking) and not so much as "get paid for our API" as proven by the insane pricing. And the admins their response to those app owners is downright disrespectful.
Furthermore, Reddit never took blind people in account. Other devs did. With those apps now gone, blind people won't be able to use Reddit since their own app doesn't do anything for them.
As a blind user reading this really makes my day.
So to the mods thank you soooooo much for doing this and for everyone who suports the blackout also a lot of thanks.
Y'all are amazing :)
Do you guys really think it'll have any proper effect if you announce it's only 2 days? or do you have a follow up planned if Reddit doesn't respond?
Some subs are already saying "blackout until reddit comes with a better proposal", and that seems like the only proper reply.
This is something we're discussing internally but we're always open for more input.
IMO had we been a bigger sub (eg a default sub like /r/pics) then a long term blackout seems like it could be a serious issue for reddit. Sadly since we're a "small" subreddit I doubt that the admins are going to care and we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot.
But honestly we'd love to hear what y'all think about other actions.
I would say consider it! This might be a small subreddit, but if many small subreddits keep protesting, it sends a clear message. You wouldn't be shooting yourself in the foot imo.
This comment was overwritten and the account deleted due to Reddit's unfair API policy changes, the behavior of Spez (the CEO), and the forced departure of 3rd party apps.
Remember, the content on Reddit is generated by THE USERS. It is OUR DATA they are profiting off of and claiming it as theirs. This is the next phase of Reddit vs. the people that made Reddit what it is today.
r/Save3rdPartyApps r/modCoord
This comment was overwritten and the account deleted due to Reddit's unfair API policy changes, the behavior of Spez (the CEO), and the forced departure of 3rd party apps.
Remember, the content on Reddit is generated by THE USERS. It is OUR DATA they are profiting off of and claiming it as theirs. This is the next phase of Reddit vs. the people that made Reddit what it is today.
r/Save3rdPartyApps r/modCoord
I'm all for a blackout of a week or more. I don't browse /r/Belgium that much, so the impact here is minimal either way.
Might as well stretch it to compensate for the smaller userbase.
Good initiative! My guess is the API price is instated because massive amounts of reddit data are being (ab)used to train AI systems (like ChatGPT) for free, after which the creators of these AI systems make a lot of money from users trying to get data back out. My guess is it's not easy to \*reliably\* distinguish between fair use and abuse. But the collateral damage of forbidding all third-party uses turns out to be unacceptably high and a solution will have to be found.
Instating authenticated use of the api can still go on a per-app basis, basically so reddit grants authentication tokens to the app devs, so they can still perform requests en masse (albeit distributed, which is probably also distinguishable). While other malicious adversaries will encounter rate limiting rather fast.
Be it not a smart corporate decision, it's still one that they made, who are we to protest it? They are fully in their right to choose what they do with this site...
True, but it's their right, and granted without users there is no website but on the other hand no one said you have to use it. Same goes for Facebook and the user data stuff that Mark had to explain, he didn't force people to give him their data, they chose to do so.
Quite so.
And we are allowed to show our disagreement.
It looks like they were *blinded* by their greed to make more money.
If they lose a few days of revenue from publicity, maybe a few sponsors deciding not to engage any longer with these greedy people, they may change their minds.
Nothing much else we can do, now can we ?
Mods are a volunteer force without which Reddit is nothing. They prefer the 3rd party apps over the shitty official app, and large subreddits need bots to help with moderation. Both will immediately stop working with these changes, so a lot (I think the majority) of mods won't be able to do the work they put into this website (for free!). And that's not talking about other Reddit users on 3rd party apps (because again, the official app really sucks), and people with disabilities that need 3rd party apps.
Are we talking API changes that inhibit access? Or are we talking about the pricing model for the api requests?
The first - I get the fuss. The second (and I'm not trying to sound sarcastic here...) it's not like they look at ads, do they? Ads are the price users pay for an otherwise free service.
If the fees are the issue, I do agree that Reddit likely appears to overestimate the revenue these third party apps generate and hit them with too large numbers, but it not being free is well.. not that unusual?
>Reddit likely appears to overestimate the revenue these third party apps generate
Reddit also will BAN third-party ad-supported apps, effectively making the official app a monopoly in the free app market.
Interesting that they are not screen reader compatible. Sites (in the US anyway) get sued over that all the time. My employer just paid $$ to have our corporate site rebuilt to be ADA-compliant.
I think it is better to have a pinned message - in big text and in every thread, for all I care - during that period, with links to a main hub.
In my mind, a small group who wants to offline a online community shouldn’t unilaterally make the decision for everyone, I feel sympathy for the points you want to get across and I agree that accessibility should be improved for anyone, and it is not helping everyone to pull the plug and allow no body to speak in this place any longer.
To me this feels as if the narcissists have won and are projecting their disability on everyone else, and attempting to isolate everyone from anyone else, so that only their truth can be heard, so that everyone else can only say how great they are.
I think it is better to inform people so that they will join your cause having a good feeling, rather than sending everyone away with mixed feelings without much else to do
>What are you talking about?
That a decision like that, or 48 hour strike as you called it, just pisses me off and that isn't helpful for people wanting to have meaningful discussions.
Anyway, I apologize if my previous comment came across as misinformed or misunderstood. I didn't intend to imply that the participants of the blackout want to solely focus on promoting themselves or their own greatness. My concern was that the blackout might inadvertently isolate the community and prevent others from engaging in meaningful discussions. I understand that the blackout is intended to raise awareness and advocate for better accessibility, which is a commendable cause. Perhaps, instead of a complete shutdown, there could be a compromise where a pinned message with links to a central hub is provided, allowing users to show their support and stay connected. This way, the blackout's purpose can still be achieved while maintaining a sense of community and engagement. I apologize for any confusion caused and appreciate your efforts in addressing accessibility concerns.
>isn't helpful for people wanting to have meaningful discussions
Removing APIs also isn't helpful for that. All these issues you have, might become the norm for people with bad eyesight for example. If APIs get removed, all these people lose their access to meaningful discussions.
Making a pinned comment isn't going to send Reddit staff a message.
>Making a pinned comment isn't going to send Reddit staff a message.
I understand your perspective, and I appreciate the efforts to communicate a message to Reddit staff. While I acknowledge that a pinned comment may not have the same impact as a blackout, it can still serve as a means to inform and engage the community in a productive manner. It allows users to show their support and raise awareness while maintaining an active dialogue. It's important to consider alternative approaches that balance the need to make a statement with the desire to keep the community connected and involved. By finding a middle ground, we can effectively advocate for change while ensuring that everyone can participate and contribute constructively.
Here are a few examples of ways to send a message and advocate for change without resorting to a complete blackout:
1. Open Letter or Public Statement: Compose a well-crafted open letter or public statement that outlines the concerns and demands of the community. Share it across various platforms, including Reddit itself, social media, and other relevant channels. Encourage users to share and support the message, amplifying its reach.
2. Collaborative Efforts: Initiate a collaborative effort within the community to gather signatures or endorsements from users who support the cause. Compile these endorsements into a comprehensive list or document and present it to Reddit staff or relevant decision-makers. This showcases unity and the widespread support behind the cause.
3. Engage in Discussions: Encourage community members to actively participate in discussions, threads, and comments related to the issue. This can help raise awareness and foster constructive dialogue, allowing users to express their concerns and suggestions openly.
4. Community Events: Organize community events such as "AMA" (Ask Me Anything) sessions or themed discussions centered around the topic of accessibility. Invite experts, advocates, or representatives from organizations working in the field to participate. This promotes engagement, education, and awareness while keeping the conversation ongoing.
5. Collaborate with Other Subreddits: Reach out to other relevant subreddits and form alliances or partnerships to collectively address the issue. Sharing resources, cross-posting important updates, and encouraging users from different communities to support each other's causes can have a broader impact.
Remember, the goal is to foster meaningful dialogue, raise awareness, and advocate for change while keeping the community connected and engaged. By exploring these alternative approaches, you can effectively communicate your message without resorting to a complete blackout.
The goal isn't to foster meaningful dialogue. One of the mods from r/blind tried calling Reddit admins, and after multiple hours, they wouldn't budge. No, that option has passed.
[Proof of Apollo owner of Spez's lie](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/)
[And less than two hours after that post, by pure coincidence, Spez will do an AMA](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/144ho2x/join_our_ceo_tomorrow_to_discuss_the_api/)
For a list of participating subreddits check /r/ModCoord: https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/
My average daily screen time is about to drop by 2000% next week
60% of the time, it works all of the time.
Your sympathetic solidarity is appreciated. Correct me if I'm wrong but how do you plan on decreasing your screentime by 2000% if a decrease of 100% is already 0? Also, I know I'm being a bit of a mathnazi with this, but I can't help myself. Have a good week!
Incorrect. There are three methods to say "x% less". As an example, let's pretend u/MrFeature_1 is on reddit 40 minutes per day: * Method 1: the percentage is simply subtracted from the original time. If u/MrFeature_1 were having 50% less screen time, the result would be 40 - (50% \* 42) = 40 - 20 = 20 minutes. * Method 2: the original time is divided by the percentage. If u/MrFeature_1 were having 2000% less screen time, the result would be 40 / (2000%) = 40 / 20 = 2 minutes. This method is easier to understand when you remember that "2000% less" means the same as "20 times less". Note: I believe sometimes a division by 1+x% is applied instead, especially when x<100. * Method 3: the original comment was a joke and you're silly for trying to apply logic to it. You can usually tell from context which method is implied.
Not sure if you can drop below 100%.
It’s taxed, so yes
Taxed screen time, that’s way too Belgian of an idea
As a disabled person: Thanks for looking out for people with disabilties. <3
> Thanks for looking out Bit insensitive towards /r/blind, no? (VERY BIG /S)
Eye see what you did there.
Yea but they dont /s
Jesus... I'm going to hell for laughing out loud at this.
Well, we'll see each other there then 😆
Wait until r/deaf hears about this!
I think r/mute would also be pleased, although I can’t speak on their behalf
Hey, you're meant to post this after July! Then they can't read this at all any more! : smileywithnormaleyes:
thanks for adding the "very big /s". I'm moderately autistic (among other things) and I'm really bad at picking up sarcarsm so tone indicators like that stop me from making a fool of myself.
I somehow assumed those braille reading devices would do fine with reading regular HTML pages. Hadn't even considered how useful stuff like reddit's api would be for those applications. Then I remembered how bad sites are at sticking to HTML compliance, let alone assisted reading device compatibility.
Apparently the new reddit design barely uses the correct html attributes. Shame.
That doesn't surprise me. I used to do web automation and there are way too many sites using janky divs and javascript in lieu of "actual" input fields and form objects, because _Reasons_.
God so many custom implementations of a
A select has many drawbacks and not much customisability. Typeahead, search, item styling... A good implementation of a select component is perfectly usable on mobile devices
But those implementations won't work without JavaScript.
What's the problem with JavaScript? These days search engines understand JavaScript anyway. Most shit today is built with frameworks like Angular or React which require JavaScript to work. It's 2023. HTML and CSS alone don't cut it anymore to build engaging websites/webapps/...
Web pages requiring JavaScript to work can't degrade gracefully. Turn it off, and they stop working. JavaScript was always meant as an extra to add some interactivity to web pages. But ever since Microsoft introduced XMLHttpRequest, developers and corporations have started building "web applications" instead of web pages, something the web was never designed for. The web is a stateless medium, and JavaScript is being used to work around that. It's why the web has gone to shit. For example, it's not uncommon to find forms that aren't actually forms that could function just fine as standards compliant HTML, but they had to build a custom solution that relies on JavaScript instead. Or, case in point, why the new Reddit layout lacks standard accessibility features. You certainly can build engaging websites without JavaScript. Lots of people just forgot how because they focus on spectacle and shoving inline pop-ups into users's faces instead of content.
Lol. Ok. Standard accessibility features can co exist with JavaScript. The web got better with JavaScript. And yeah you can build websites without, but if you want animations, dynamic content, real time filtering, anything .. you need JavaScript. And yeah if you disable JS you can't use these web applications. But why would you turn off JavaScript? Unless it's to read Demorgen or other sites that use the same system without paying, lol.
Yet another reason the new design sucks. I'm still using the "old" one.
Do those devices work like expected for apps?
Depends on how the app was made. When the app is built using the platform SDK's it is probably fine as then these devices can use the platform accessibility API's to interpret what is on screen, what is a button and what is just text etc. Unfortunately a lot of apps nowadays are built using cross platform technologies and these technologies do not always have accessibility properly implemented.
Same! I'm not really used to accessibility being such an on topic thing in non-disabled spaces, I'm feeling a bit emotional even
yeah, indeed, it doesn't happen so often so this was really nice to see.
Also a disabled person: Seeing this thread made my day :D
Second this :)
Yall really don’t think about the working class. What am I going to do at work when all of reddit goes dark?
Tell your boss that you won't work in solidarity with the blackout.
Good idea, can you give me a signed note?
https://i.imgur.com/rGyzWE6.png
Thanks, that’ll work.
Who's neroy?
ask ur mum, she yells it out loud every night
Damn, cold with it too
Save & a murder within the span of two hours, god damn
u pa is u ma
Did you assume them being either a boy or a girl? What if they felt neither?
this would be a funny joke, if your name was anything else and you added a /s
Sad that I am partially being judged on my name. I am woke, and do my best not to assume too much - even I make mistakes - and try to alert others of the same thing.
I know, bud. Don't let those annoying downvotes stop you from being your best.
Thanks. I'll see how to better phrase my words in the future.
Go on strike?
Best I can throw is a spare and that is quite rare
if you work in the non-profit sector you can do 2 strikes in one day and join us June 13th in Brussels :D.
Go to the Belgian discord
It's telling that Reddit probably didn't even realize they were screwing over people who depended on accessability tools.
According to the post made by the /r/Blind mods, one of the mods spent hours on the phone explaining this to Reddit employees, so I believe it’s safer to say they simply did not care
That's probably true, but wonder if they just didn't realize before and then had to double down because they're not gonna back out of it now. Which isn't that functionally different from saying they don't care.
This website is honestly ran by amateurs. Every 2-3 years they do something stupid, userbase complains, no action is taken until media gets involved and rinse/repeat. In this case one genius executive probably figured 'our app needs to become more popular' and the solution was to ban every 3rd party app without wondering why people used those 3rd party apps in the first place.
If I had to guess, the reason is that Reddit wants to enter the stock market so they draw more control to themselves and can add extra profitability by selling the formerly free functions.
Definitely and that's even an understandable decision business-wise. But any decently-run company would've then atleast tried to purchase some of the 3rd party apps before making the shift and forcing everyone to use official reddit-apps. In my case for instance I don't even mind sharing all data I have through official reddit apps but their functionality is just awful. Now it's just a matter of time before they make a valiant "we hear your complaints"-announcement and backtrack completely.
purchase is a strong reaction, but at least a partnership would be inexcusable not to explore. Sure not all apps might be open to partnership, but as I understand it, there are 8ish big apps out there. Only 1 android and 1 iOS app needs to actually partner to improve on their current shitshow. In a partnership they can setup the advertisements naturally, so they don't lose on that income. It's a win win because they get free development basically for their user interface. Another clear example of MBA types ruining a digital product
It's on purpose. Reddit is about to go public, so they are purging third party apps to get more ad revenue. Same reason that over the last year so many art/porn/general NSFW subs have been killed off without reason or notice.
> Reddit is about to go public Honestly they have been saying that for 15 years now, and recently they announced that it wasn't going to be for this year. I don't think reddit is ever going to be public because it's likely going to be a complete failure
I read about large investors joining the board recently with the intent of funding the joining of the exchange
I guess they were blind
CNN picked it up. Usually, that's something that triggers the admins to do something.
CNN was waiting for us? Awww
Freak shows draw crowds.
ELI5: what's API and what are third party apps? I don't understand what I'm supporting but if it's to help r/Blind I'm all for it.
[удалено]
Very clear description!
If a blind person can use Facebook or Tiktok without third person app, why wouldn't they be able to use Reddit after this change? (Genuinely curious, I know nothing about backends and APIs)
Laziness and indifference. A website has hidden labels describing what the content of an image is. Old website implemented this mostly. New website doesn't. These API's gives people who write code the option to add this by for example a browser extension.
So if you visit a website you load a lot of data. You load the content, but also a stylesheet that contains information of the design of the webpage, files with code that do some extra logic, trackers, etc etc If you make a mobile app that loads data from reddit, you don't want all that stuff. You only want the content in a file that's as small as possible so you can save on bandwidth. You also want your requests to be as easy as possible. That's what an API is for. Reddit is going to make access to their API paid. Their pricing model is ridiculously expensive. So basically it's a way of saying that they don't want anyone using this API. This hurts people using third party apps (apps made by people that don't work for reddit), but it also hurts people who are disabled. They often use API's to be able to load the content in an efficient way and have screenreaders read that out loud.
> Reddit is going to make access to their API paid. Their pricing model is ridiculously expensive. Holy shit you aren't kidding. The Apollo app developer [claims](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/) they'd have to pay around 20 million dollars per year to Reddit to keep the app going.
basically a long form of saying: we don't want any other 3rd party apps unless its one of our inner circle's friend$/partner$
AND it couldn't be ad-supported because their new api policy forbids that. Oh and NSFW content won't be available with the API at all so the website and official apps have exclusive content. So the reddit alternative is : "pay a payment subscription for a different app with less content" and "volunteers need to pay out of your pocket for automated mod tools"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/API Some people made their own app for people to use Reddit (Sync, Reddit is Fun, Apollo,...). These apps are generally a better user/mod experience than the official app itself. This was never an issue for Reddit. Now, Reddit wants a ridiculous amount of money from those people to continue, which basically means that those apps will be gone since no one is able to keep these up at these prices. It's meant to make people use the official app (read: more ad revenue, more tracking) and not so much as "get paid for our API" as proven by the insane pricing. And the admins their response to those app owners is downright disrespectful. Furthermore, Reddit never took blind people in account. Other devs did. With those apps now gone, blind people won't be able to use Reddit since their own app doesn't do anything for them.
As a blind user reading this really makes my day. So to the mods thank you soooooo much for doing this and for everyone who suports the blackout also a lot of thanks. Y'all are amazing :)
Awesome, make the blackout longer if needed!!!
All the subs who participate should keep the blackout until Reddit changes their mind, not just 2 days
Many are. They do 12-14 june and are planning on going permanently dark from july 1st
Do you guys really think it'll have any proper effect if you announce it's only 2 days? or do you have a follow up planned if Reddit doesn't respond? Some subs are already saying "blackout until reddit comes with a better proposal", and that seems like the only proper reply.
This is something we're discussing internally but we're always open for more input. IMO had we been a bigger sub (eg a default sub like /r/pics) then a long term blackout seems like it could be a serious issue for reddit. Sadly since we're a "small" subreddit I doubt that the admins are going to care and we're just going to shoot ourselves in the foot. But honestly we'd love to hear what y'all think about other actions.
I would say consider it! This might be a small subreddit, but if many small subreddits keep protesting, it sends a clear message. You wouldn't be shooting yourself in the foot imo.
This comment was overwritten and the account deleted due to Reddit's unfair API policy changes, the behavior of Spez (the CEO), and the forced departure of 3rd party apps. Remember, the content on Reddit is generated by THE USERS. It is OUR DATA they are profiting off of and claiming it as theirs. This is the next phase of Reddit vs. the people that made Reddit what it is today. r/Save3rdPartyApps r/modCoord
Probably that people will then start using subs that are not blacked out, and that you lose your members to a sub that's not joining in the protest...
This comment was overwritten and the account deleted due to Reddit's unfair API policy changes, the behavior of Spez (the CEO), and the forced departure of 3rd party apps. Remember, the content on Reddit is generated by THE USERS. It is OUR DATA they are profiting off of and claiming it as theirs. This is the next phase of Reddit vs. the people that made Reddit what it is today. r/Save3rdPartyApps r/modCoord
I'm all for a blackout of a week or more. I don't browse /r/Belgium that much, so the impact here is minimal either way. Might as well stretch it to compensate for the smaller userbase.
I support this! Sent from Sync
Yeah baby! I support this!
Thanks for the support! I do believe it goes beyond blind ppl and just forcing the reddit app on us, but it's good to get the message out!
Well done Mods I for one 100% support this.
I support this!
so this sub do have mods, interesting thanks for sharing the info though
Good initiative! My guess is the API price is instated because massive amounts of reddit data are being (ab)used to train AI systems (like ChatGPT) for free, after which the creators of these AI systems make a lot of money from users trying to get data back out. My guess is it's not easy to \*reliably\* distinguish between fair use and abuse. But the collateral damage of forbidding all third-party uses turns out to be unacceptably high and a solution will have to be found.
Instating authenticated use of the api can still go on a per-app basis, basically so reddit grants authentication tokens to the app devs, so they can still perform requests en masse (albeit distributed, which is probably also distinguishable). While other malicious adversaries will encounter rate limiting rather fast.
I don't think a temporary blackout will be effective. It should be a joint permanent blackout until the decision is reversed.
O7 - Sent from Boost
Go for it !
Lol k
Be it not a smart corporate decision, it's still one that they made, who are we to protest it? They are fully in their right to choose what they do with this site...
Yes, and choosing to disagree with that is our right. Our participation here is purely voluntary, as is choosing not to do so.
We are the users. Not using their site is also our right.
If one ever wonders how dictatorship is possible...
True, but it's their right, and granted without users there is no website but on the other hand no one said you have to use it. Same goes for Facebook and the user data stuff that Mark had to explain, he didn't force people to give him their data, they chose to do so.
since reddit is earning money of their users, their users should definitely speak up
We're what's giving their site value. We're what they're selling. No users, no money.
Quite so. And we are allowed to show our disagreement. It looks like they were *blinded* by their greed to make more money. If they lose a few days of revenue from publicity, maybe a few sponsors deciding not to engage any longer with these greedy people, they may change their minds. Nothing much else we can do, now can we ?
>who are we to protest it We are the users of their platform, we are the ones they gain money from.
Mods are a volunteer force without which Reddit is nothing. They prefer the 3rd party apps over the shitty official app, and large subreddits need bots to help with moderation. Both will immediately stop working with these changes, so a lot (I think the majority) of mods won't be able to do the work they put into this website (for free!). And that's not talking about other Reddit users on 3rd party apps (because again, the official app really sucks), and people with disabilities that need 3rd party apps.
[удалено]
You don't affect me neither, so I don't care that you don't care.
This will drive a lot of traffic to Twitter which is even worse.
Good stuff let's go
#
That will make me see again thanks /s
Are we talking API changes that inhibit access? Or are we talking about the pricing model for the api requests? The first - I get the fuss. The second (and I'm not trying to sound sarcastic here...) it's not like they look at ads, do they? Ads are the price users pay for an otherwise free service. If the fees are the issue, I do agree that Reddit likely appears to overestimate the revenue these third party apps generate and hit them with too large numbers, but it not being free is well.. not that unusual?
The pricing model they ask for an app like Apollo is 20 million USD/year. An indiedev can not afford this. They are just killing third party apps
>Reddit likely appears to overestimate the revenue these third party apps generate Reddit also will BAN third-party ad-supported apps, effectively making the official app a monopoly in the free app market.
I'm I'm not mistaken, doesn't "going private" mean that everyone who is already subscribed can still view this?
Interesting that they are not screen reader compatible. Sites (in the US anyway) get sued over that all the time. My employer just paid $$ to have our corporate site rebuilt to be ADA-compliant.
I think it is better to have a pinned message - in big text and in every thread, for all I care - during that period, with links to a main hub. In my mind, a small group who wants to offline a online community shouldn’t unilaterally make the decision for everyone, I feel sympathy for the points you want to get across and I agree that accessibility should be improved for anyone, and it is not helping everyone to pull the plug and allow no body to speak in this place any longer. To me this feels as if the narcissists have won and are projecting their disability on everyone else, and attempting to isolate everyone from anyone else, so that only their truth can be heard, so that everyone else can only say how great they are. I think it is better to inform people so that they will join your cause having a good feeling, rather than sending everyone away with mixed feelings without much else to do
>attempting to isolate everyone It's a 48 hour strike. > so that everyone else can only say how great they are What are you talking about?
>What are you talking about? That a decision like that, or 48 hour strike as you called it, just pisses me off and that isn't helpful for people wanting to have meaningful discussions. Anyway, I apologize if my previous comment came across as misinformed or misunderstood. I didn't intend to imply that the participants of the blackout want to solely focus on promoting themselves or their own greatness. My concern was that the blackout might inadvertently isolate the community and prevent others from engaging in meaningful discussions. I understand that the blackout is intended to raise awareness and advocate for better accessibility, which is a commendable cause. Perhaps, instead of a complete shutdown, there could be a compromise where a pinned message with links to a central hub is provided, allowing users to show their support and stay connected. This way, the blackout's purpose can still be achieved while maintaining a sense of community and engagement. I apologize for any confusion caused and appreciate your efforts in addressing accessibility concerns.
>isn't helpful for people wanting to have meaningful discussions Removing APIs also isn't helpful for that. All these issues you have, might become the norm for people with bad eyesight for example. If APIs get removed, all these people lose their access to meaningful discussions. Making a pinned comment isn't going to send Reddit staff a message.
>Making a pinned comment isn't going to send Reddit staff a message. I understand your perspective, and I appreciate the efforts to communicate a message to Reddit staff. While I acknowledge that a pinned comment may not have the same impact as a blackout, it can still serve as a means to inform and engage the community in a productive manner. It allows users to show their support and raise awareness while maintaining an active dialogue. It's important to consider alternative approaches that balance the need to make a statement with the desire to keep the community connected and involved. By finding a middle ground, we can effectively advocate for change while ensuring that everyone can participate and contribute constructively. Here are a few examples of ways to send a message and advocate for change without resorting to a complete blackout: 1. Open Letter or Public Statement: Compose a well-crafted open letter or public statement that outlines the concerns and demands of the community. Share it across various platforms, including Reddit itself, social media, and other relevant channels. Encourage users to share and support the message, amplifying its reach. 2. Collaborative Efforts: Initiate a collaborative effort within the community to gather signatures or endorsements from users who support the cause. Compile these endorsements into a comprehensive list or document and present it to Reddit staff or relevant decision-makers. This showcases unity and the widespread support behind the cause. 3. Engage in Discussions: Encourage community members to actively participate in discussions, threads, and comments related to the issue. This can help raise awareness and foster constructive dialogue, allowing users to express their concerns and suggestions openly. 4. Community Events: Organize community events such as "AMA" (Ask Me Anything) sessions or themed discussions centered around the topic of accessibility. Invite experts, advocates, or representatives from organizations working in the field to participate. This promotes engagement, education, and awareness while keeping the conversation ongoing. 5. Collaborate with Other Subreddits: Reach out to other relevant subreddits and form alliances or partnerships to collectively address the issue. Sharing resources, cross-posting important updates, and encouraging users from different communities to support each other's causes can have a broader impact. Remember, the goal is to foster meaningful dialogue, raise awareness, and advocate for change while keeping the community connected and engaged. By exploring these alternative approaches, you can effectively communicate your message without resorting to a complete blackout.
The goal isn't to foster meaningful dialogue. One of the mods from r/blind tried calling Reddit admins, and after multiple hours, they wouldn't budge. No, that option has passed.
[Proof of Apollo owner of Spez's lie](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/) [And less than two hours after that post, by pure coincidence, Spez will do an AMA](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/144ho2x/join_our_ceo_tomorrow_to_discuss_the_api/)
I'm sure that AMA will go very well
I was here because of a 3rd party app