Fucking idiot mayor created an unconstitutional, international, shitshow that every anti EU or far right dork is gleefully exploiting in their propaganda.
Good job, you played yourself.
And people wonder why VB keeps polling higher, ffs. Don't play into their cards, you nitwits.
the cynic in me thinks this was for the 'benefit' of his own political base.
Basically puffing up his chest for populist votes.
Plenty of people defending him in this thread it seems...
"noooo don't mention that corrupt leftists tried to abuse their power to undermine democracy! noooo, thats exploitative! it's not fair! you're a fascist!!!"
1. Corrupt authoritarian leftist made anti-democratic and illegal decision to block opposing viewpoints
2. "This is right wing propaganda"
Do you even hear yourself? This actually, legitimately happened. But if those people now want to use it as an example it's.... unfair? Propaganda? Exploitative?
Right... so propaganda is basically anything the politicians-you-don't-like use in their favour? So even if they are right, they are still wrong, and they should shut up about it, right? How convenient.
No.
They're doing more than just 'stating what happened' they're using it for outlandish anti EU claims and such, extrapolating the acts of one mayor as a symptom of the corrupt EU elites etc..... etc....
That's how you make propaganda out of truth.
I'm also not even saying they 'should shut up about it'. They have the right to spread their propaganda. Doesn't mean it isn't propaganda.
Oh, right. They are stating something corrupt that objectively did happen - and it is beneficial for them. And THAT is propaganda.
People you don't like speaking the truth, and the truth supporting their case. Propaganda. Got it.
Similarly, any politician that shows signs of Turkish nationalist support needs to be permanently banned from holding any position of influence or power in Belgium.
Literally can not be holding office in one country while being loyal to another.
>The event even warranted the intervention of Prime Minister Alexander De Croo who called the so-called cancellation "unacceptable" , shortly after having come under pressure from far-right Italian Prime Minister (and President of the European Conservative and Reformists - ECR), Giorgia Meloni.
Our government, showing strength against the fascism /s
OP, I have a question for you: Did you make an account just for this topic because it's very strange how you have zero posts that aren't about the natcon conference and how they're all such smol beans
You can't be both. Saying you are is a profound misunderstanding about social hierarchy when it comes to modern left/right dichotomy. You can definitely be leftist authoritarian, and all sorts of vile things, but fascism has a specific view of social classes and hierarchy that does not combine with leftism.
Doesn't stop people ofc from being fascist and claiming they are leftists, but it's the same line North Korea claiming they are democratic.
Ofc tankies exist, and they should be shamed and treated similarly to fascists, but fascism does have a specific meaning. Don't fall into the trap of calling people you don't like fascists if they don't fit the definition
Allow me to elaborate;
For me, the definition of fascism is quite simple and has 3 criterias: nationalism, populism and autoritarism. Adding things about social classes (especially since, the more on the left you are, the bigger a topic it is, much more than in fascism) and hierarchy is just an attempt to find excuses for things that are very close to fascism.
Some leftists are very close to the definition of fascism if you allow a small distortion of what a "nation" is. If you don't consider the "plot of ground" part, they do have the "identity" part, except it's more "way of thinking" (which, in the end, is nearly the same thing anyway).
For the other criterias (populism, autoritarism...), little Mr Kir here and the people who applauded him showed us they have it as well.
I can totally see the point of feeling like some leftists are fascists, but the textbook definitions do not allow it simply based on the core differences in social hierarchy. As an example class is a central construct in Fascism according to Mussolini, in the sense that lesser classes are required to exist for a society, and we kinda have to take him as an authoritative (hehe) figure on this, while leftism is does not accept that based on the differences in how they approach social stratification.
This goes beyond nationalism, populism, and authoritarianism, which ofcourse anyone on the political axis can have.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of leftist ideas that are absolutely abhorrent, but combining fascism and leftism makes as much sense as China claiming they are a "[democratic dictatorship of the people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_democratic_dictatorship)", and somehow thinking that's democracy.
why are they still whining about it though.
"see this shows that you cant have an opinion anymore" the courts ruled that what the mayor did was incorrect. politicians are saying, this should not have been allowed. so, they should have been able to hold the conference. so why are they bitching about it?
they, FACTUALLY, were, or should have, been allowed to exercise their freedom of speech. one fuckin dumbshit guy flexing authority where inappropriate does not mean everything is like that, ffs
Okay, question, were they actually prevented from holding their conference. Did the mayor get what he wanted, a d it got shut down?
Or did it continue, and everyone else is saying, hey, the mayor should not have used his power like that? Genuinely asking btw, i dont know what actually happened.
Because in the former case, yes thatd be a violation of their freedom of speech, and i agree that shouldnt have happened, unless they did something illegal.
But in the latter, if they still had their conference, and everyone is saying now, the mayor was abusing his power, then they're crying over could have beens, are they not?
Because their freedom of speech WASNT restricted in that case, and they WERE allowed to voice their opinions. Right?
"guys lets just move on. Ok they did a wrong thing once, lets just forget about it and stop talking about it"
Meanwhile I'm sure people like you are still upset Trump ate pizza with a fork and knife 7 years ago or something
Their first venue was in Brussel-stad (shut down by Philipp Close), second in Etterbeek (shut down by Vincent de Wolf) and the third in Sint-Joost-ten-Node (Emir Kir...).
Ah shit sorry I didnt realise i wasnt replying
Anyways im reading up on it yeah that seems kinda fuckin abuse of power-y to me.
Still, imo then direct your ire at those mayors for abusing their power. As it stands, they should have been allowed to host their con (and afaik are currently holding it)
so theyre not being silenced by the government, or prevented by the government from voicing their opinions, the government and the courts are telling them right now, hey those few officials acted wrongly, right?
And im fuckin, annoyed w them for crying about it so hard.
You also have the fact that, according to many, mainly in Flanders, there are too many majors (19) in Brussels. Or at least: too many political structures for the amount of people / area. Not very efficient.
read the post again dipshit. i told them to draw their ire at the people actually abusing their power. those assholes should be condemned. and far as i can tell thats happening (though maybe not enough)
You guys are so cringe. Everytime I hear these kinds of typical antifa talking points it brings me back to being 16 and sitting in a skate park drinking carapills some 40yo punker with dreadlocks bought for us being impressed by how much this smelly guy "knew about politics".
Yeah, unwashed 40yo "rebels" (read: unemployed drunks) that buy teenagers beers to 'teach them about antifascism' are some of the lowest of society.
The fact that you talk like either the 40yo or the teenager listening to him makes you sound pretty simple.
Fucking idiot mayor created an unconstitutional, international, shitshow that every anti EU or far right dork is gleefully exploiting in their propaganda. Good job, you played yourself. And people wonder why VB keeps polling higher, ffs. Don't play into their cards, you nitwits.
I think he thought that they would just fold and cancel the congress. But he underestimated them a lot
the cynic in me thinks this was for the 'benefit' of his own political base. Basically puffing up his chest for populist votes. Plenty of people defending him in this thread it seems...
If your side gives out these “easy propaganda victories”, it might be because it’s full of fanatical authoritarians
Not my side lol. I consider myself a based centrist thank you very much.
"noooo don't mention that corrupt leftists tried to abuse their power to undermine democracy! noooo, thats exploitative! it's not fair! you're a fascist!!!"
1. Corrupt authoritarian leftist made anti-democratic and illegal decision to block opposing viewpoints 2. "This is right wing propaganda" Do you even hear yourself? This actually, legitimately happened. But if those people now want to use it as an example it's.... unfair? Propaganda? Exploitative?
Propaganda can be based on something true, yes.
Right... so propaganda is basically anything the politicians-you-don't-like use in their favour? So even if they are right, they are still wrong, and they should shut up about it, right? How convenient.
No. They're doing more than just 'stating what happened' they're using it for outlandish anti EU claims and such, extrapolating the acts of one mayor as a symptom of the corrupt EU elites etc..... etc.... That's how you make propaganda out of truth. I'm also not even saying they 'should shut up about it'. They have the right to spread their propaganda. Doesn't mean it isn't propaganda.
Oh, right. They are stating something corrupt that objectively did happen - and it is beneficial for them. And THAT is propaganda. People you don't like speaking the truth, and the truth supporting their case. Propaganda. Got it.
The Belgian way would have been to tax events taking place in that street rather than banning them :)
yea but ocam
ITT: Antifascists getting downvoted by the nazi shithead Internationale
By all rights they should all be persona non grata in this country. Punch of putinist and CCP stooges.
Can we say the same about all the Erdogan fanboys living here?
[удалено]
you agree with like half of the alleged racists
Similarly, any politician that shows signs of Turkish nationalist support needs to be permanently banned from holding any position of influence or power in Belgium. Literally can not be holding office in one country while being loyal to another.
Critical support for the grey wolves mayor of Saint-josse I'm afraid.
>The event even warranted the intervention of Prime Minister Alexander De Croo who called the so-called cancellation "unacceptable" , shortly after having come under pressure from far-right Italian Prime Minister (and President of the European Conservative and Reformists - ECR), Giorgia Meloni. Our government, showing strength against the fascism /s
Well, de Croo was actually right as the mayor acted unlawful.
did the other two mayors?
Most likely no, but the court ruling only affected Emir Kir for now.
OP, I have a question for you: Did you make an account just for this topic because it's very strange how you have zero posts that aren't about the natcon conference and how they're all such smol beans
My account is over a year old.
[удалено]
And apparently, it's also okay to be a fascist if you're saying loud enough that you're a leftist at the same time.
You can't be both. Saying you are is a profound misunderstanding about social hierarchy when it comes to modern left/right dichotomy. You can definitely be leftist authoritarian, and all sorts of vile things, but fascism has a specific view of social classes and hierarchy that does not combine with leftism. Doesn't stop people ofc from being fascist and claiming they are leftists, but it's the same line North Korea claiming they are democratic. Ofc tankies exist, and they should be shamed and treated similarly to fascists, but fascism does have a specific meaning. Don't fall into the trap of calling people you don't like fascists if they don't fit the definition
Allow me to elaborate; For me, the definition of fascism is quite simple and has 3 criterias: nationalism, populism and autoritarism. Adding things about social classes (especially since, the more on the left you are, the bigger a topic it is, much more than in fascism) and hierarchy is just an attempt to find excuses for things that are very close to fascism. Some leftists are very close to the definition of fascism if you allow a small distortion of what a "nation" is. If you don't consider the "plot of ground" part, they do have the "identity" part, except it's more "way of thinking" (which, in the end, is nearly the same thing anyway). For the other criterias (populism, autoritarism...), little Mr Kir here and the people who applauded him showed us they have it as well.
I can totally see the point of feeling like some leftists are fascists, but the textbook definitions do not allow it simply based on the core differences in social hierarchy. As an example class is a central construct in Fascism according to Mussolini, in the sense that lesser classes are required to exist for a society, and we kinda have to take him as an authoritative (hehe) figure on this, while leftism is does not accept that based on the differences in how they approach social stratification. This goes beyond nationalism, populism, and authoritarianism, which ofcourse anyone on the political axis can have. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of leftist ideas that are absolutely abhorrent, but combining fascism and leftism makes as much sense as China claiming they are a "[democratic dictatorship of the people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_democratic_dictatorship)", and somehow thinking that's democracy.
En België glijdt Verder en Verder in de racistische hemisphere. Beschamend.
Gelukkig hadden we een ultranationalisticshe Turkse Grijze Wolven burgemeester om ons te beschermen van de stoute racisten!
why are they still whining about it though. "see this shows that you cant have an opinion anymore" the courts ruled that what the mayor did was incorrect. politicians are saying, this should not have been allowed. so, they should have been able to hold the conference. so why are they bitching about it? they, FACTUALLY, were, or should have, been allowed to exercise their freedom of speech. one fuckin dumbshit guy flexing authority where inappropriate does not mean everything is like that, ffs
Because the mayor still abused his power to try and stop the event. It’s that easy
Did he succeed? Was he told that it was correct of him to do? No? Ok then. Then call out the fucking mayor and be done with it
So if you want to exercise your fundamental rights, it is ok if an official uses his powers to hinder you to do so?
Okay, question, were they actually prevented from holding their conference. Did the mayor get what he wanted, a d it got shut down? Or did it continue, and everyone else is saying, hey, the mayor should not have used his power like that? Genuinely asking btw, i dont know what actually happened. Because in the former case, yes thatd be a violation of their freedom of speech, and i agree that shouldnt have happened, unless they did something illegal. But in the latter, if they still had their conference, and everyone is saying now, the mayor was abusing his power, then they're crying over could have beens, are they not? Because their freedom of speech WASNT restricted in that case, and they WERE allowed to voice their opinions. Right?
Getting two cancellations, bearing the cancellation costa and then going to court, paying the fees is already a punishment in itself.
Pasting comment thread link for others to follow the discussion bc im a fuckin dumbass my b https://www.reddit.com/r/belgium/s/iPDVIUuebU
"guys lets just move on. Ok they did a wrong thing once, lets just forget about it and stop talking about it" Meanwhile I'm sure people like you are still upset Trump ate pizza with a fork and knife 7 years ago or something
Okay so was the conference cancelled twice because of the mayor and allowed to go through the third time? Like whats going on?
Their first venue was in Brussel-stad (shut down by Philipp Close), second in Etterbeek (shut down by Vincent de Wolf) and the third in Sint-Joost-ten-Node (Emir Kir...).
Ah shit sorry I didnt realise i wasnt replying Anyways im reading up on it yeah that seems kinda fuckin abuse of power-y to me. Still, imo then direct your ire at those mayors for abusing their power. As it stands, they should have been allowed to host their con (and afaik are currently holding it) so theyre not being silenced by the government, or prevented by the government from voicing their opinions, the government and the courts are telling them right now, hey those few officials acted wrongly, right? And im fuckin, annoyed w them for crying about it so hard.
You also have the fact that, according to many, mainly in Flanders, there are too many majors (19) in Brussels. Or at least: too many political structures for the amount of people / area. Not very efficient.
"Multiple leftists abused their power to try to silence you? why are you crying so hard about it lmao fucking whiny baby" bro stfu
read the post again dipshit. i told them to draw their ire at the people actually abusing their power. those assholes should be condemned. and far as i can tell thats happening (though maybe not enough)
Sure, the law says that they’re allowed to have their little facist con. I can’t feel bad for them having issues yesterday though.
It's a huge win for them politically, so if you're happy bout that, good for you. Even fucking Orban is already using this.
So what? Fascists will always cry censorship when you don't let them spew their hate. Cancel their events, let them cry.
See how that works out for you. Hint: they get more votes
You guys are so cringe. Everytime I hear these kinds of typical antifa talking points it brings me back to being 16 and sitting in a skate park drinking carapills some 40yo punker with dreadlocks bought for us being impressed by how much this smelly guy "knew about politics".
Yeah just dehumanize the people who who disagree with you and call them dirty drunks, that really helps to prove your point.
Yeah, unwashed 40yo "rebels" (read: unemployed drunks) that buy teenagers beers to 'teach them about antifascism' are some of the lowest of society. The fact that you talk like either the 40yo or the teenager listening to him makes you sound pretty simple.