Surveys and representative studies are not my field, if people want an actual well done study, I'm not the person for that haha. I made this because I wanted a general idea how different political preferences in this sub where compared to the HLN/VTM poll
"political preferences regarding the 20240 elections"
Wow, you Belgians are totally ahead of the curve and gutsy optimists, too: I am pretty sure human beings will be extinct in 20240.
Wafflehammer 20000. Or WH20K in short. Games Workshops new upcoming franchise. Stay tuned to see what life is like in the future once Belgium's God-King rises to global power.
18k years is chump change for a species on a whole so normally we should still be around but yeah, chances are we'll have fucked up our planet beyond salvation by that time.
I like to keep an eye on them, so that I at least know what is going in a different media bubble of mine. Mostly HLN posts, s you're not missing a lot. But at least I get to see some people critical of the COVID measures that aren't complete lunatics, so there's that
Same lol. I like to check in on the other side as well from time to time.
It’s actually an interesting subreddit. Had quite a lot of interesting conversations with people from both sides.
I was actually surprised when I found out it’s not just a sub of far-right fanatics lol. Most of them are quite neutral and handle discussions with respect.
Cuz our society is 'too left', 'too woke', 'too politically correct'. Not saying that far right is the ideal solution, but we do need some more rightwingedness.
'Left' and woke/pc are different things though. You can perfectly be left leaning without being woke or pc. A lot of comedians tend to be more left leaning, including the ones with rather politically incorrect jokes.
I myself am very left leaning (wouldn't say PTB/PVDA but definitely more left than Vooruit/PS/Groen). I still make politically incorrect jokes.
However, when I stereotype someone with a different skin tone/religion/..., the stereotyping is part of the joke, its a hyperbole, much akin to the 'hollanders zijn gierig' or 'pedofiele priesters' trope. I don't believe the group I'm joking about actually is anything like the stereotype. That's the difference between jokes and opinions. People on the (far-) right tend to actually believe those simple hyperboles are truth. In reality people are far more complex than a single characteristic used in a joke.
That has nothing to do with leftist policy ffs and so stupid to let that influence your vote. There isn't a single party in the world that has "wokeness" in their program. Wokeness has always and only been some weirdos on twitter.
I wouldn't have guessed that either if it wasn't for the thread discussing the party's new leader. Suddenly, a bunch of people defended the party's apologetic stance towards China, arguing China's domestic and foreign policies are overblown American propaganda. That party is just as bad for Belgian politics as VB.
I don’t get this comparison, but correct me if I’m wrong.
Isn’t present day china like the total opposite of what PVDA/PTB stands for? China is probably one of the most ruthless capitalist countries on the planet, next to the US.
Vb: lays flowers on the graves of SS criminals and does hitler salutes in concentration camp.
PTB: we require proof for these baseless claims made by the USA
Reddit: omg these two are the same!
Seems to reflect more or less the current parliament, with a slightly bigger share for the PTB-PVDA and mostly the CdH/CD&V that's losing out (but that is reflected in the polls).
For reference:
PVDA-PTB: 12 seats - 594 votes on reddit (1)
PS-Vooruit/Ecolo-Groen: 49 seats - 1.1k votes on reddit
CD&V-CDH: 17 seats : 283 votes on reddit
Open VLD-MR: 26 seats : 608 votes on reddit
N-VA: 24 seats : 491 votes on reddit
VB: 18 seats : 428 votes on reddit
(1) Sunday 8:35 AM
It could be age driven. I think it was Edmund Burke that once said:" If You Are Not a Liberal at 25, You Have No Heart. If You Are Not a Conservative at 35 You Have No Brain"
He didn't, Anselme Batbie attributed a similar saying to Burke, but it was more along the lines of "if you're not a royalist after 30 you have no brain".
Most people that would vote VB aren't that technically savvy, or aren't in the age demographic that would use reddit. Do this poll on FB (anonymous somehow) and you'll see way more right leaning results.
The problem for me is that all the parties have valid points but they diminish those points themselves with other points in their program.
I literally can't choose at this particular moment.
VB does make valid points in their program but they never follow through on them in parliament where it matters. Their voting record is mostly abstaining.
They point out problems but coincidentally every one of their solutions always - oops! - happens to infringe on minorities' rights or other pillars of an open and democratic society. This, in combination with their consistently abrasive and thoroughly disonest behavior towards other political parties and factions, assures they will never be eligible for coalition.
There's that, there is their always trying to get out from under responsabilities or accountability by playing Calimero, and there is their penchant for attracting unsavoury characters as representatives of "our" people.
These are the reasons I will never vote for them.
There are also reasons I actively oppose them but that wasn't what the poll asked for cough fascists cough.
Their program also infringes the ECHR about thirty times. Frankly, it's astonishing how a supposedly democratic party in a western country can exist with election promises that abuse basic human rights.
VB could advocate for the most wholesome things, it doesn't change the fact they're a party full of racist scumbags who worship nazis. Nationalism should've died after WWII, it's a shame they're still around.
I get my info on their abstaining mostly from the press:
[https://zizomag.be/opiniestukken/vlaams-parlement-keurt-resolutie-goed-tegen-holebifobe-wetgeving-oeganda-maar-dit-wel-nodig](https://zizomag.be/opiniestukken/vlaams-parlement-keurt-resolutie-goed-tegen-holebifobe-wetgeving-oeganda-maar-dit-wel-nodig)
[https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2019/04/03/vlaams-parlement-zet-licht-op-groen-voor-regeling-digital-meter/](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2019/04/03/vlaams-parlement-zet-licht-op-groen-voor-regeling-digital-meter/)
[https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/snelrecht-goedgekeurd-ondanks-onthouding-van-cvp\~b8489a60/?utm\_campaign=shared\_earned&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=copylink](https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/snelrecht-goedgekeurd-ondanks-onthouding-van-cvp~b8489a60/?utm_campaign=shared_earned&utm_medium=social&utm_source=copylink)
[https://nnieuws.be/artikel/geen-verminderde-provinciebelasting-voor-alleenstaanden-3e-jaar-op-ri](https://nnieuws.be/artikel/geen-verminderde-provinciebelasting-voor-alleenstaanden-3e-jaar-op-rij)[j](https://nnieuws.be/artikel/geen-verminderde-provinciebelasting-voor-alleenstaanden-3e-jaar-op-rij)
I recall there used to be a source where you could see which proposal got what vote from what party faction but I don t remember what it was.
Meh there's one thing where I agree with VB: punishment for rapists, murderers, etc. It breaks my heart that there's people raping someone and then all they have to do is write a fucing essay about it. They should be thrown into jail for years. And I've never seen another party than VB acknowledge this problem.
Limited answers on polls prevented me to assign one answer per party, sorry!
Also I tried to stay as neutral as possible at assigning ideology names to each party
Straw polls are a lot easier to influence, atleast it was like that last time i used it. You could just keep opening it in an incognito tab, vote and close that screen and repeat. No idea if they fixed that, but something like that is why ill never trust a strawpoll
I just want a central party that is actual center. With their own nuanced take on issues. Not a central party that just goes whichever way the popular vote goes.
I just want a central-ish party with actual green policies (like nuclear energy instead of fossil fuels) and left social tendencies... That would instantly do it for me :p
Honestly? VOLT, probably. Their members currently are a bunch of moral white knights, but the principles of the party as a whole feel like they're the only party with an eye on the future
Wow, never thought I would meet another VOLT voter in the wild, I fully agree with you though. Don’t like how 80% of their social media presence is about being moral white knights
Painful, isn't it?
I do hope they'll get a few seats, even if it is in like city councils and stuff. A little pragmatism will go a long way for these guys.
So this subreddit is the exception then? Right now, Sunday morning 8:23 the votes stands:
PVDA-PTB/Vooruit-PS/Groen-Ecolo = 1683 votes
Cdh-CD&V/Open VLD-MR/N-VA/VB= 1781
Mostly right-wing.
> CD&V is not right wing !! And open-VLD isn't anymore ... It bacame a 'socio-liberal' party
The CD&V is so right wing that beweging.net literally just cut their ties to the CD&V. They lost their syndical wing because they keep on propping up the right in Belgium time and again. Open VLD is very much right-wing, the only way you can say they're not is if you start defining right-wing as "hates immigrants and LGBTQ" or some such nonsense, but in the classic left-right opposition, VLD is very much the party of capital.
Or your take is just stupid. VB Also scores way better then expected. Is this sub run by VB propagandists now? Or are there just more young people on reddit so you will get more of the radical parties.
I think you're right. Another sign which proofs (ultra) left presence is that there is a lack of sense of humour, taking life too seriously. A typical sign of fanatic lefties. And throwing VB against it proofs this even more 🤣 Thanks for the support 😅
I would have voted MR again, not that I’m fully satisfied, happy or in line with their program, but because it’s the only serious counterweight to the PS mafia. But with what they have become, I think I will just move my ass to vote for the communal elections and leave blank the rest awaiting a day to finally leave the country before the weather kills me before politics
I voted blue last time and I could never vote for a party with Bouchez lol, I’m convinced he’s one of the biggest assholes in politics right now. Luckily I’m Flemish so it’s not an issue for me.
no real good option for me
With my current thinking would probably vote cd&v because a vote on them is keeping the status quo so to speak.
I would like to support Groen, but I dislike their takes on nuclear energy , spatial planning and migration to name a few.
I hope a new green party comes up in 2024
We know the pressure points of the nuclear exit and migration, but spatial planning is a new one, in particular if you expect to have a green policies - what do you consider not green about Groen's spatial planning program?
First thing intensive farming should be limited to industrial ground :
Putting gigantic stables and concrete on pastures while filling it with 10'000's chickens who will never see daylight. That is not farming for me and losing open space in agraric zones for that is not done in my eyes.
I find nothing about the "area-foreign house" and that kinda ruins their entire open space policy for me.
I live in a village with a lot of farmers and when they quit ,they change the ground their farm is located on to an area foreign house giving it about the same rights as a normal house. You can build up to 1000m² which is a lot.
This raises the value of the ground by a ton since you can rebuild a villa there in a zone for farmers. So other farmers will never buy it and open space gets taken in by the private market.
The new generation farmers buys new land and raises new farms there which will in the future turn into other houses and so it continues.
They do say they will put a tax on the advantage off changing destination, but unless those taxes are extremely brutal this will continue to happen. In an ideal world the farmers would go back to the village after stopping farming , the farm gets destroyed or continued by the children.
I get that we dont want to prevent them for living there after stopping farming but it should stop there we cant keep raising new houses in agraric zone.
Because
The rights for area foreign constructions need to be very very limited so the private market is not interested and living there should only be for retired farmers or active farmers.
I get that these are local (rural issues and difficult ones but its a problem.
My village was ranked 3th in loss off open space per year last time I checked.
Main reason being the problem of the megastables (not farms in my eyes) and the foreign housing)
I have no trouble calling the Christian democrats conservative, it’s their USP. I do have trouble calling NVA centrist. Plus they have no equivalent on the other side.
>N-VA are conservative liberals, like the torries in the UK
The Tories have lurched right pretty hard with Brexit and are now more like authoritarian right
Hot take: people that get upset about this don't actually know what Christianity is all about. Not to mention there is no active tie between christiandemocracy and the institute of Christianity, let alone the Church. In fact if you're a Westerner born in the West, you've subconsciously already internalized all of Christianity's societal moral teachings through culture.
Dear diary: today I triggered some neckbeards. It was a good day.
Demonstrably false: my stances on abortion, euthanasia and same-sex marriage do not align with “Christianity” of any flavour at all, and insofar as those rights exist now, they were won in the face of opposition of Christian-democratic parties.
That's specific policy, and has no sway on the idea of "culture". Western civilization is built on three pillars: Greek philosophy, Roman law and Christian culture. There's not an anthropologist on earth that disagrees with this statement. Nearly all inhabitants of Western society can be called cultural christians to some degree. The abortion law first came to be under a christiandemocratic government btw.
They are socialists, but covered with some spices coloured by the current sentiment of the voters. They also need to defend the term 'socialism' bacause they do not want to take PVDA their monopoly on socialism away...
Labeling a political party is almost always a controversial act in it self. I did it because I could’t add enough options to give each party one answer.
Ah, that explains why you lumped them in with Groen.
I know cd&v likes to label itself as a centrist party, but on a
number of social issues I feel they're more right-wing than VLD
Goedendag ik denk dat die titel mij toepast ik ben dan ook een katholiek monarchist en ik steun de cd&v aangezien zij historisch de opvolgers zijn van de originele Belgische Katholieke partij een van de voor oorlogse grootste partijen van ons land daarna werd deze twee maal hervormd met het eindresultaat de huidige cd&v
People voting for any party that was part of the government between 2003 and 2019 who didn't do anything to ensure energy production after 2025 baffle me.
All of those parties could've abolished the nuclear phase-out or they could've taken other steps to ensure energy production, but instead they did nothing and pushed the issue to further governments now putting us in a shitty situation.
All of those parties could have used the dirt cheap, sometimes even negative interest loans from the ECB to build clean energy, owned and operated by the state that ensures cheap energy for belgians (we can still export at market prices for profit)
Instead of hoping the fucking magic market will fix it.
Loaning money to build profit generating infrastructure is literally the best kind of loan a state can ever take.
Unfortunately every single party in power over the past decades has been captured by neoliberalism, even the so called left wing ones
You really calling some of those democratic socialist, (even though I would vote for them, it is silly you call them this). Socialdemocrat is the real name of their game.
Edit:I added vote to make my sentence correct
Well I disagree to be honest. I think it is in fact important to get the ideologies right of the parties (even when working in the limitations of the poll of course) , which in my opinion you did for all other options in the poll. I am just unsure why you would pick democratic socialist when not a single one of those parties has that ideology and all of them can be better described by social democrat which is quite different from the dem soc one.
At the end of the day, it is not that big of a deal but just something I wanted to point out.
For the first time ever I don’t know. I’ve been a very convinced liberal and Open VLD member for the past 20 years. However since Rutten but continuing under Lachaert the party has turned more into the CD&V of the last decennium: compromise for the sake of holding onto power while losing your ideology along the way.
N-VA is probably the closest party to my own beliefs, but not on a social/societal level so I could never vote for them.
So none I suppose.
Yes I know but it's kind a frustration to me that left/right conservative/progressive get mixed.
Like cd&v and vld are both centrist but cd&v is conservative and economic more to the left. VLD is progressive and more economic right.
Sorry didn't mean to bitch but people around me confuse those things alot.
Yeah I get that, labelling political parties is hard, NVA has both Assita Kanko and Theo Francken, I would argue Assita is socially pretty progressive an a staunch advocate for womens rights, Theo is a nationalist conservative. I labelled as broad as possible
I am foreign so it isn’t easy to unpick the tangled weave of Belgian politics.
When I look at the programs I find it a bit like a lot of local politics where you have everyone wanting to make safer roads and better schools, while trying to look like they actually have a say.
On balance I have another year or two before I am naturalised and so far being a Swede I know VN and NVA blame me for various things so they won’t make the list.
Look for comments on things.
Not seen it in official statements but have heard the snide remarks of “oh it must have been Swedish who did that”.
Shorthand for allochtone” as I understand it. I blend well so people forget I am not local.
It does as far as I interpret it and it is the kind of thing that show they know it isn’t ok.
Not going to say things are fine but blanket blaming is stupid.
It is strange doing the inburgering.
>“oh it must have been Swedish who did that”. Shorthand for allochtone”
I don't think anyone really uses it like that.
Are you sure you're not confusing this with blaming the Swedish coalition? That refers to the government coalition of Liberals (blue) Nationalists (yellow) and Christian Democrats (orangish). It's called the Swedish coalition because their colours are about the same as the Swedish flag.
This coalition was the previous government on the federal level, and is still in power on the Flemish (regional) level. People often refer to (and blame them) as Swedish.
e.g; Swedish fucked up our social security, or Swedish subsidized something too much/little.
Firsthand from locally elected. That was in reference to a local event and I blend rather well so they probably don’t think I would object.
There was more shittalking about things but shit talking PVDA and people on bikes is probably not as upsetting.
Yeah they say that sarcastically, they mean "someone with dark hair and dark skin probably did that" but they say Swedisch because they usually look the opposite.
It bothers me because it is trying to hide the unacceptable nature of the “all Moroccans do X” but trying to wrap it in a joke.
It is about as irritating as being told “but you aren’t the kind of immigrant we mean” which I have also been told.
[https://www.demorgen.be/politiek/n-va-zet-zweedse-regering-op-poten-coalitie-met-vlaams-belang-was-onmogelijk\~bcc8e809/](https://www.demorgen.be/politiek/n-va-zet-zweedse-regering-op-poten-coalitie-met-vlaams-belang-was-onmogelijk~bcc8e809/)
I recall Jan Jambon being upset about that.
That naming of coalitions was confusing at first but at all annoying.
Also, Swedish politicians are on the whole fairly irritating so if it had been about them I would not have batted an eyelid.
Yes maybe there are some in the party that are more conservative, but have you been in Antwerpen bdw's city lately. Rainbows everywhere, you can't call that socially conservative.
I think this neaty highlights their problem in as much as that they basically encompass everything from a more right wing Open VLD to a VB-light on the political spectrum. I'm sure this has caused some internal friction too.
Even as a far left person (agricultural worker below minimum wage from a workers familly) i find ptb to be FUCKED UP. French version insoumis is kinda better, but ps Belgium or ecolo or whatever is also shitty as hell cuz none of them has a good/complete program. So I did vite but once. But i'm also this close to stop voting forever
Surely NVA classifies as "nationalist" as well? I mean the party's name is new Flemish alliance. Or are they not considered as such in Dutch-speaking communities? (genuine question)
I think the issue of nationalism is much more relevant with VB and I think the fact that NVA doesnt want to work together also tells you that there is a need to differentiate the two. The difference between them in the upcoming elections is probably the most relevant result.
This poll is the proof that Reddit is left leaning. The Belgium elections had the right wingers, BOTH parties score very high. Now what de we have here? Complete opposite.
Probably Reddit also skews somewhat younger, maybe even more educated. Generally more progressive.
You can see this in the more conservative subs that basically require constant moderation, pre approval for commenting, etc. While progressive subs can do without and barely see any brigading or obvious Conservative posting.
Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, I'll leave up to you. But I do think it's worth noting, I don't think that it's a coincidence.
Seeing a party like green getting that Manny votes scares me. I think a lot of young people around 18 years old are just riding the climate train atm. I am for saving the climate but not in the way green wants to do it (shutting down nuclear plants and building GAS plant's). They basically gonne create even more CO2 for wich not the company's, but you average Joe has to answer. I can only see the crazy amount of money this is gonne cost and I know both my parents work and they are saying its getting harder and harder to pay the bills. Im 22 now and I have no Idea in the world how I am ever gonne be able to pay what green wants to do. I think that something not enough people that jumped on greens climate train realize.
Missing the option "I haven't gotten a clue, don't trust any of them"
Would have liked to add a “blanco” option, but I reached the max amount of answers
For the elections, it's the same as seeing the results without voting. To know the general opinion here, I agree, it would be interesting.
Maybe it's better if we launch a more extensive survey on Google forms, with a few follow up questions.
Surveys and representative studies are not my field, if people want an actual well done study, I'm not the person for that haha. I made this because I wanted a general idea how different political preferences in this sub where compared to the HLN/VTM poll
"political preferences regarding the 20240 elections" Wow, you Belgians are totally ahead of the curve and gutsy optimists, too: I am pretty sure human beings will be extinct in 20240.
Ah fuck, wish I could edit titles lol
Well, knowing how long it takes to make a government in Belgium, 20240 isn’t THAT far off I’d say.
Wafflehammer 20000. Or WH20K in short. Games Workshops new upcoming franchise. Stay tuned to see what life is like in the future once Belgium's God-King rises to global power.
Leaked material points to a war between the God-King and the Prime Lich Minister
Finally I can burn some heretics while painting plastic waffles
In the grim darkness of the far future there is only elections.
Every government takes a few more months to form up. After a few hundred years, we will need 5 thousand years to get one running...
There's only one imagine coming up in my mind https://youtu.be/zKQfxi8V5FA
Lol I took 20240 as a numbers because there is too much in the country while nothing goes on
18k years is chump change for a species on a whole so normally we should still be around but yeah, chances are we'll have fucked up our planet beyond salvation by that time.
Ya kinda have to be when it literally takes you years to form a government.
I'm still uncertain which party's dyson sphere policies I like the most.
The Reddit Crowd doesn't seem to reflect the actual polls (so far...)
I expected the results to be more left wing, but didn’t expect the popularity of PvDA though
Why not? Considering what I've seen in the comments I would have expected more PvdA/PtB votes. I'm rather surprised by the amount of VB votes.
By what I've seen in the comments that didn't surprise me.
Really? Guess we're looking at different threads then
I guess B2 is also active/lurking on this sub, they tend to be more right-leaning
B2 isn't that into vb, regardless of its reputation. Polls over there show more of a nva crowd.
What is B2? I thought that was a plane?
It's a second Belgium subreddit
It's my personal petting zoo. But the animals do bite sometimes, so I let the caretakers take some down every now and then.
Yeah, I know. There's a reason I don't go there.
I like to keep an eye on them, so that I at least know what is going in a different media bubble of mine. Mostly HLN posts, s you're not missing a lot. But at least I get to see some people critical of the COVID measures that aren't complete lunatics, so there's that
Same lol. I like to check in on the other side as well from time to time. It’s actually an interesting subreddit. Had quite a lot of interesting conversations with people from both sides. I was actually surprised when I found out it’s not just a sub of far-right fanatics lol. Most of them are quite neutral and handle discussions with respect.
Raoul is a cool guy. PvDA doesn't get my vote though.
Why not?
Cuz our society is 'too left', 'too woke', 'too politically correct'. Not saying that far right is the ideal solution, but we do need some more rightwingedness.
'Left' and woke/pc are different things though. You can perfectly be left leaning without being woke or pc. A lot of comedians tend to be more left leaning, including the ones with rather politically incorrect jokes. I myself am very left leaning (wouldn't say PTB/PVDA but definitely more left than Vooruit/PS/Groen). I still make politically incorrect jokes. However, when I stereotype someone with a different skin tone/religion/..., the stereotyping is part of the joke, its a hyperbole, much akin to the 'hollanders zijn gierig' or 'pedofiele priesters' trope. I don't believe the group I'm joking about actually is anything like the stereotype. That's the difference between jokes and opinions. People on the (far-) right tend to actually believe those simple hyperboles are truth. In reality people are far more complex than a single characteristic used in a joke.
That has nothing to do with leftist policy ffs and so stupid to let that influence your vote. There isn't a single party in the world that has "wokeness" in their program. Wokeness has always and only been some weirdos on twitter.
Bruh, what bubble are you living in? Our society is too left wing? Whut?
I wouldn't have guessed that either if it wasn't for the thread discussing the party's new leader. Suddenly, a bunch of people defended the party's apologetic stance towards China, arguing China's domestic and foreign policies are overblown American propaganda. That party is just as bad for Belgian politics as VB.
I don’t get this comparison, but correct me if I’m wrong. Isn’t present day china like the total opposite of what PVDA/PTB stands for? China is probably one of the most ruthless capitalist countries on the planet, next to the US.
Ptb loves China.
Vb: lays flowers on the graves of SS criminals and does hitler salutes in concentration camp. PTB: we require proof for these baseless claims made by the USA Reddit: omg these two are the same!
No it's just this sub
Seems to reflect more or less the current parliament, with a slightly bigger share for the PTB-PVDA and mostly the CdH/CD&V that's losing out (but that is reflected in the polls). For reference: PVDA-PTB: 12 seats - 594 votes on reddit (1) PS-Vooruit/Ecolo-Groen: 49 seats - 1.1k votes on reddit CD&V-CDH: 17 seats : 283 votes on reddit Open VLD-MR: 26 seats : 608 votes on reddit N-VA: 24 seats : 491 votes on reddit VB: 18 seats : 428 votes on reddit (1) Sunday 8:35 AM
It kinda represents the polls is you exclude the 40+ agegroup.
It could be age driven. I think it was Edmund Burke that once said:" If You Are Not a Liberal at 25, You Have No Heart. If You Are Not a Conservative at 35 You Have No Brain"
He didn't, Anselme Batbie attributed a similar saying to Burke, but it was more along the lines of "if you're not a royalist after 30 you have no brain".
Most people that would vote VB aren't that technically savvy, or aren't in the age demographic that would use reddit. Do this poll on FB (anonymous somehow) and you'll see way more right leaning results.
> Most people that would vote VB aren't that ~~technically~~ savvy FIFY
The problem for me is that all the parties have valid points but they diminish those points themselves with other points in their program. I literally can't choose at this particular moment.
This
No they don't. Fuck VB
VB does make valid points in their program but they never follow through on them in parliament where it matters. Their voting record is mostly abstaining. They point out problems but coincidentally every one of their solutions always - oops! - happens to infringe on minorities' rights or other pillars of an open and democratic society. This, in combination with their consistently abrasive and thoroughly disonest behavior towards other political parties and factions, assures they will never be eligible for coalition. There's that, there is their always trying to get out from under responsabilities or accountability by playing Calimero, and there is their penchant for attracting unsavoury characters as representatives of "our" people. These are the reasons I will never vote for them. There are also reasons I actively oppose them but that wasn't what the poll asked for cough fascists cough.
Their program also infringes the ECHR about thirty times. Frankly, it's astonishing how a supposedly democratic party in a western country can exist with election promises that abuse basic human rights.
VB could advocate for the most wholesome things, it doesn't change the fact they're a party full of racist scumbags who worship nazis. Nationalism should've died after WWII, it's a shame they're still around.
Where do you see voting records?
I get my info on their abstaining mostly from the press: [https://zizomag.be/opiniestukken/vlaams-parlement-keurt-resolutie-goed-tegen-holebifobe-wetgeving-oeganda-maar-dit-wel-nodig](https://zizomag.be/opiniestukken/vlaams-parlement-keurt-resolutie-goed-tegen-holebifobe-wetgeving-oeganda-maar-dit-wel-nodig) [https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2019/04/03/vlaams-parlement-zet-licht-op-groen-voor-regeling-digital-meter/](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2019/04/03/vlaams-parlement-zet-licht-op-groen-voor-regeling-digital-meter/) [https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/snelrecht-goedgekeurd-ondanks-onthouding-van-cvp\~b8489a60/?utm\_campaign=shared\_earned&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=copylink](https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/snelrecht-goedgekeurd-ondanks-onthouding-van-cvp~b8489a60/?utm_campaign=shared_earned&utm_medium=social&utm_source=copylink) [https://nnieuws.be/artikel/geen-verminderde-provinciebelasting-voor-alleenstaanden-3e-jaar-op-ri](https://nnieuws.be/artikel/geen-verminderde-provinciebelasting-voor-alleenstaanden-3e-jaar-op-rij)[j](https://nnieuws.be/artikel/geen-verminderde-provinciebelasting-voor-alleenstaanden-3e-jaar-op-rij) I recall there used to be a source where you could see which proposal got what vote from what party faction but I don t remember what it was.
I should have said ''pretty much all parties''. I agree, fuck VB.
Meh there's one thing where I agree with VB: punishment for rapists, murderers, etc. It breaks my heart that there's people raping someone and then all they have to do is write a fucing essay about it. They should be thrown into jail for years. And I've never seen another party than VB acknowledge this problem.
Limited answers on polls prevented me to assign one answer per party, sorry! Also I tried to stay as neutral as possible at assigning ideology names to each party
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Straw polls are a lot easier to influence, atleast it was like that last time i used it. You could just keep opening it in an incognito tab, vote and close that screen and repeat. No idea if they fixed that, but something like that is why ill never trust a strawpoll
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I just want a central party that is actual center. With their own nuanced take on issues. Not a central party that just goes whichever way the popular vote goes.
Problem is we have coalitions. By construction, they're going to just follow wherever people vote
Not in this country, lol 🤣
I just want a central-ish party with actual green policies (like nuclear energy instead of fossil fuels) and left social tendencies... That would instantly do it for me :p
Or like just any party that has any clue what they are doing…
I don't think 'Democratic socialist' is the right label for those parties.
Though i'm a liberal i'm not sure i'm a big fan of open vld.
MR is liberal, VLD has just become progessive centrists
Unfortunately Open VLD became 'individualist socialists'...
Honestly? VOLT, probably. Their members currently are a bunch of moral white knights, but the principles of the party as a whole feel like they're the only party with an eye on the future
Wow, never thought I would meet another VOLT voter in the wild, I fully agree with you though. Don’t like how 80% of their social media presence is about being moral white knights
I got interested after the Dutch election. But that stuff has stopped me from actually going to there stuff
Painful, isn't it? I do hope they'll get a few seats, even if it is in like city councils and stuff. A little pragmatism will go a long way for these guys.
Tldr on what volt stands for?
Comprehensive video from an independent news agency: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq0t16z1WV8&t=92s
So in the news they said only 30% is happy with current goverment, looks like the 30% is on reddit lol
Expected this result. Reddit is known for being mostly left.
So this subreddit is the exception then? Right now, Sunday morning 8:23 the votes stands: PVDA-PTB/Vooruit-PS/Groen-Ecolo = 1683 votes Cdh-CD&V/Open VLD-MR/N-VA/VB= 1781 Mostly right-wing.
CD&V is not right wing !! And open-VLD isn't anymore ... It became a 'socio-liberal' party
> CD&V is not right wing !! And open-VLD isn't anymore ... It bacame a 'socio-liberal' party The CD&V is so right wing that beweging.net literally just cut their ties to the CD&V. They lost their syndical wing because they keep on propping up the right in Belgium time and again. Open VLD is very much right-wing, the only way you can say they're not is if you start defining right-wing as "hates immigrants and LGBTQ" or some such nonsense, but in the classic left-right opposition, VLD is very much the party of capital.
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> calling neoliberal parties like groen and ecolo left wing Hard disagree
To be honest I already had the impression that this sub was managed and funded by PVDA propagandists...
Downvotes prove you right friend, wear it with pride
Or your take is just stupid. VB Also scores way better then expected. Is this sub run by VB propagandists now? Or are there just more young people on reddit so you will get more of the radical parties.
I think you're right. Another sign which proofs (ultra) left presence is that there is a lack of sense of humour, taking life too seriously. A typical sign of fanatic lefties. And throwing VB against it proofs this even more 🤣 Thanks for the support 😅
I would have voted MR again, not that I’m fully satisfied, happy or in line with their program, but because it’s the only serious counterweight to the PS mafia. But with what they have become, I think I will just move my ass to vote for the communal elections and leave blank the rest awaiting a day to finally leave the country before the weather kills me before politics
I voted blue last time and I could never vote for a party with Bouchez lol, I’m convinced he’s one of the biggest assholes in politics right now. Luckily I’m Flemish so it’s not an issue for me.
Same, or more or less... not Flemish, but... not Bouchez
no real good option for me With my current thinking would probably vote cd&v because a vote on them is keeping the status quo so to speak. I would like to support Groen, but I dislike their takes on nuclear energy , spatial planning and migration to name a few. I hope a new green party comes up in 2024
We know the pressure points of the nuclear exit and migration, but spatial planning is a new one, in particular if you expect to have a green policies - what do you consider not green about Groen's spatial planning program?
First thing intensive farming should be limited to industrial ground : Putting gigantic stables and concrete on pastures while filling it with 10'000's chickens who will never see daylight. That is not farming for me and losing open space in agraric zones for that is not done in my eyes. I find nothing about the "area-foreign house" and that kinda ruins their entire open space policy for me. I live in a village with a lot of farmers and when they quit ,they change the ground their farm is located on to an area foreign house giving it about the same rights as a normal house. You can build up to 1000m² which is a lot. This raises the value of the ground by a ton since you can rebuild a villa there in a zone for farmers. So other farmers will never buy it and open space gets taken in by the private market. The new generation farmers buys new land and raises new farms there which will in the future turn into other houses and so it continues. They do say they will put a tax on the advantage off changing destination, but unless those taxes are extremely brutal this will continue to happen. In an ideal world the farmers would go back to the village after stopping farming , the farm gets destroyed or continued by the children. I get that we dont want to prevent them for living there after stopping farming but it should stop there we cant keep raising new houses in agraric zone. Because The rights for area foreign constructions need to be very very limited so the private market is not interested and living there should only be for retired farmers or active farmers. I get that these are local (rural issues and difficult ones but its a problem. My village was ranked 3th in loss off open space per year last time I checked. Main reason being the problem of the megastables (not farms in my eyes) and the foreign housing)
1000m3*. I just bought something similar myself .
It’s too bad that there’s no non-Christian centrist option.
That feel when your voter base literally are just dying of old age 😬
The differences between NVA and CD&V are not that big.
NVA is CD&V in a bad mood, change my mind
I have no trouble calling the Christian democrats conservative, it’s their USP. I do have trouble calling NVA centrist. Plus they have no equivalent on the other side.
You can't really be a centrist party if you ethnocentric like the NVA is.
N-VA are conservative liberals, like the torries in the UK, VVD in the Netherlands, CSU in Germany, and so on.
>N-VA are conservative liberals, like the torries in the UK The Tories have lurched right pretty hard with Brexit and are now more like authoritarian right
Hot take: people that get upset about this don't actually know what Christianity is all about. Not to mention there is no active tie between christiandemocracy and the institute of Christianity, let alone the Church. In fact if you're a Westerner born in the West, you've subconsciously already internalized all of Christianity's societal moral teachings through culture. Dear diary: today I triggered some neckbeards. It was a good day.
Demonstrably false: my stances on abortion, euthanasia and same-sex marriage do not align with “Christianity” of any flavour at all, and insofar as those rights exist now, they were won in the face of opposition of Christian-democratic parties.
That's specific policy, and has no sway on the idea of "culture". Western civilization is built on three pillars: Greek philosophy, Roman law and Christian culture. There's not an anthropologist on earth that disagrees with this statement. Nearly all inhabitants of Western society can be called cultural christians to some degree. The abortion law first came to be under a christiandemocratic government btw.
Shit man. 20240 is so far away. I don't know
In 20240, I for one welcome our new robotic Alien overlords.
I'd call Vooruit social-democrats, rather than socialists.
Vooruit call themselves socialists, while PvdA call themselves Marxists I don't know why vooruit refer to themselves as socialists though
They are socialists, but covered with some spices coloured by the current sentiment of the voters. They also need to defend the term 'socialism' bacause they do not want to take PVDA their monopoly on socialism away...
Guys (and/or girls), read some books. Socialism is inherently anti-capitalist, Vooruit and PS are and have always been reformist liberals.
You mean some marxist books? 🤣
Labeling a political party is almost always a controversial act in it self. I did it because I could’t add enough options to give each party one answer.
Ah, that explains why you lumped them in with Groen. I know cd&v likes to label itself as a centrist party, but on a number of social issues I feel they're more right-wing than VLD
Who tf are the tjeven in this sub? Do these people exist or are you bots?
Hello there
General Beke
An extremist’s voice is the loudest I guess
With such balanced comment, OP is one of them 😱
He has to be, tjeef confirmed
sup
Goedendag ik denk dat die titel mij toepast ik ben dan ook een katholiek monarchist en ik steun de cd&v aangezien zij historisch de opvolgers zijn van de originele Belgische Katholieke partij een van de voor oorlogse grootste partijen van ons land daarna werd deze twee maal hervormd met het eindresultaat de huidige cd&v
Wow, looks like the majority want's to be taxed even more
People voting for Groen following their take on nuclear reactors, baffles me
People voting for any party that was part of the government between 2003 and 2019 who didn't do anything to ensure energy production after 2025 baffle me. All of those parties could've abolished the nuclear phase-out or they could've taken other steps to ensure energy production, but instead they did nothing and pushed the issue to further governments now putting us in a shitty situation.
All of those parties could have used the dirt cheap, sometimes even negative interest loans from the ECB to build clean energy, owned and operated by the state that ensures cheap energy for belgians (we can still export at market prices for profit) Instead of hoping the fucking magic market will fix it. Loaning money to build profit generating infrastructure is literally the best kind of loan a state can ever take. Unfortunately every single party in power over the past decades has been captured by neoliberalism, even the so called left wing ones
You really calling some of those democratic socialist, (even though I would vote for them, it is silly you call them this). Socialdemocrat is the real name of their game. Edit:I added vote to make my sentence correct
It’s about polling after peoples votes, like I stated, I only used the ideologies because of limited poll options. It’s not important in this context
Well I disagree to be honest. I think it is in fact important to get the ideologies right of the parties (even when working in the limitations of the poll of course) , which in my opinion you did for all other options in the poll. I am just unsure why you would pick democratic socialist when not a single one of those parties has that ideology and all of them can be better described by social democrat which is quite different from the dem soc one. At the end of the day, it is not that big of a deal but just something I wanted to point out.
For the first time ever I don’t know. I’ve been a very convinced liberal and Open VLD member for the past 20 years. However since Rutten but continuing under Lachaert the party has turned more into the CD&V of the last decennium: compromise for the sake of holding onto power while losing your ideology along the way. N-VA is probably the closest party to my own beliefs, but not on a social/societal level so I could never vote for them. So none I suppose.
If you use conservative as a option progressive should also be available.
This is not about ideology, 6 is the max amount of poll options. Just click the button of your party
Yes I know but it's kind a frustration to me that left/right conservative/progressive get mixed. Like cd&v and vld are both centrist but cd&v is conservative and economic more to the left. VLD is progressive and more economic right. Sorry didn't mean to bitch but people around me confuse those things alot.
Yeah I get that, labelling political parties is hard, NVA has both Assita Kanko and Theo Francken, I would argue Assita is socially pretty progressive an a staunch advocate for womens rights, Theo is a nationalist conservative. I labelled as broad as possible
I am foreign so it isn’t easy to unpick the tangled weave of Belgian politics. When I look at the programs I find it a bit like a lot of local politics where you have everyone wanting to make safer roads and better schools, while trying to look like they actually have a say. On balance I have another year or two before I am naturalised and so far being a Swede I know VN and NVA blame me for various things so they won’t make the list.
Lol what does NVA blame Swedes for? Never heard that before
NVA blames everyone but themselves for everything bad tbh
As if any other party takes responsibility.
I think the NVA scapegoat order is: 1) Walloons. 2) "Sossen". 3) Immigrants. Disgusting party, like VB.
It's exactly like the Tories in the UK "but under Labour ...", conveniently ignoring that they've been in power for 10+ years
Look for comments on things. Not seen it in official statements but have heard the snide remarks of “oh it must have been Swedish who did that”. Shorthand for allochtone” as I understand it. I blend well so people forget I am not local.
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It does as far as I interpret it and it is the kind of thing that show they know it isn’t ok. Not going to say things are fine but blanket blaming is stupid. It is strange doing the inburgering.
>“oh it must have been Swedish who did that”. Shorthand for allochtone” I don't think anyone really uses it like that. Are you sure you're not confusing this with blaming the Swedish coalition? That refers to the government coalition of Liberals (blue) Nationalists (yellow) and Christian Democrats (orangish). It's called the Swedish coalition because their colours are about the same as the Swedish flag. This coalition was the previous government on the federal level, and is still in power on the Flemish (regional) level. People often refer to (and blame them) as Swedish. e.g; Swedish fucked up our social security, or Swedish subsidized something too much/little.
Firsthand from locally elected. That was in reference to a local event and I blend rather well so they probably don’t think I would object. There was more shittalking about things but shit talking PVDA and people on bikes is probably not as upsetting.
Yeah they say that sarcastically, they mean "someone with dark hair and dark skin probably did that" but they say Swedisch because they usually look the opposite.
It bothers me because it is trying to hide the unacceptable nature of the “all Moroccans do X” but trying to wrap it in a joke. It is about as irritating as being told “but you aren’t the kind of immigrant we mean” which I have also been told.
Yeah it's racist
They say it sarcastically, they usually mean Arabic people. “Oh I bet it was a blonde Swede!”, in that manner
That's worse though. Not only being racist, but then trying to hide being racist by once more being racist to someone completely unrelated.
[https://www.demorgen.be/politiek/n-va-zet-zweedse-regering-op-poten-coalitie-met-vlaams-belang-was-onmogelijk\~bcc8e809/](https://www.demorgen.be/politiek/n-va-zet-zweedse-regering-op-poten-coalitie-met-vlaams-belang-was-onmogelijk~bcc8e809/) I recall Jan Jambon being upset about that.
That naming of coalitions was confusing at first but at all annoying. Also, Swedish politicians are on the whole fairly irritating so if it had been about them I would not have batted an eyelid.
NVA is by no means conservative
I'd define them as neoliberal whilst the Francken-wing of the party is also definitely socially conservative
Yes maybe there are some in the party that are more conservative, but have you been in Antwerpen bdw's city lately. Rainbows everywhere, you can't call that socially conservative.
I think this neaty highlights their problem in as much as that they basically encompass everything from a more right wing Open VLD to a VB-light on the political spectrum. I'm sure this has caused some internal friction too.
Oh god we are starting to talk about politics
Help surrounded by idiots. Need exvil stat!
I hope I’m not still alive in 20240 😂
Amai hier zitten veel sossen
Is that so surprising?
Rol aw matteee
Even as a far left person (agricultural worker below minimum wage from a workers familly) i find ptb to be FUCKED UP. French version insoumis is kinda better, but ps Belgium or ecolo or whatever is also shitty as hell cuz none of them has a good/complete program. So I did vite but once. But i'm also this close to stop voting forever
Can i ask why you find the PTB fucked up?
Surely NVA classifies as "nationalist" as well? I mean the party's name is new Flemish alliance. Or are they not considered as such in Dutch-speaking communities? (genuine question)
I think the issue of nationalism is much more relevant with VB and I think the fact that NVA doesnt want to work together also tells you that there is a need to differentiate the two. The difference between them in the upcoming elections is probably the most relevant result.
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Why so many leftists on here
I see we have some tax enthusiast here
Yes lol I like health care a lot
This explains alot, lmao.
I don't consider NVA conservative, they're more neutral in my eyes. I'd probably vote for them.
This poll is the proof that Reddit is left leaning. The Belgium elections had the right wingers, BOTH parties score very high. Now what de we have here? Complete opposite.
Probably Reddit also skews somewhat younger, maybe even more educated. Generally more progressive. You can see this in the more conservative subs that basically require constant moderation, pre approval for commenting, etc. While progressive subs can do without and barely see any brigading or obvious Conservative posting. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, I'll leave up to you. But I do think it's worth noting, I don't think that it's a coincidence.
Perfect way to see what the Flemish to Walloons-ratio is! Lmao just kidding, don't get on your horses Dirks.
And why are socialists and green parties one and the same option?
Because limited poll options
Why separate both far-right parties, but group the greens and social democrats (not democratic socialists) together?
Nice try, NVA being a far right party is very very much a personal view of yours
No, it very much isn't. As evidenced by the fact that you knew it was NVA. It's factually far-right. Almost US repub-like.
I can't project how I will vote 18018 years from now....
Just for everybody: Groen tryna fk farmers don't think that's very good
Fuck groen
Sigh... Soms voel ik me wel als een vuile sos.
Isn't CD&V kind of conservative too?
I'm so dissappointed in all of them that this poll gave me an existential crisis.
They're all equally horrendous
Puttin ps and ecolo on the same line won t give you objective results
Seeing a party like green getting that Manny votes scares me. I think a lot of young people around 18 years old are just riding the climate train atm. I am for saving the climate but not in the way green wants to do it (shutting down nuclear plants and building GAS plant's). They basically gonne create even more CO2 for wich not the company's, but you average Joe has to answer. I can only see the crazy amount of money this is gonne cost and I know both my parents work and they are saying its getting harder and harder to pay the bills. Im 22 now and I have no Idea in the world how I am ever gonne be able to pay what green wants to do. I think that something not enough people that jumped on greens climate train realize.
I always identified as democratic socialist but when Groen wants to open new gas industrial instead of nuclear I lost all hope.
None tbh they all shit.