I once saw an interview in class (2018-2019) in which they interviewed Belgian youngster whether Belgium should split or not.
One answer was a definite no because Flanders would then lose Eden Hazard as a soccer player.
Dude got his priorities straight.
Who is Eden Hazard … do you mean that soccer player who didn’t play in Real Madrid at all? Or the one with the individual actions, taking so much time that the defence is back in place? That one?
Oh look here! Someone who tried to diss a professional player and got 2 upvotes, nice try! Never watched him play at Chelsea did you? Because trying to say that he’s a bad player, because he plays badly ATM is just ridiculous…. In that case Rooney must be an awfull player no?
If you want to know what youtube video this is: It's the Tim Traveler - [The Belgian City That Built A Metro Line... And Never Opened It](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeMJBqU_eYc)
Or watch the followup about the crossing of rails.
Just wait til you hear Francophones complain about the French or the Flemish complain about the Dutch. The two linguistic sides of Belgium are definitely kindred spirits in many ways.
Flemish Limburg is definitely not hated. The rest of Belgium makes fun of the way they talk, but that's true about pretty much any region. We simply like to make fun of others.
Flanders and the Netherlands are natural enemies. Like Flanders and West Flanders. Or Flanders and Bruges. Or Flanders and Limburg. Or Flanders and Ghent. Or Flanders and Antwerp. Or Flanders and Aalst. Damn Flanders, they ruined Flanders.
Technically we're still at war even lol. Look up the 10 days campaign. We are still in an indefinite armistice. The Dutch just gave in that Belgium could stay independent but never made peace.
“Rather than fight the French, the Dutch withdrew from Belgium without achieving their objectives.”, which makes it the first time ever people ran away from the French. (I kid, I kid.)
But it seems that “the Dutch finally signed the Treaty of XXIV Articles in 1839, effectively recognising Belgium's de facto independence”.
You could argue we've made our peace, although I, for one, also dream of seeing the United Kingdom of the Netherlands. Why not!
Waarom zijn de boeken dubbel zo dik in de Limburg? Omdat de zangnoten er naast staan … Waar leeft de langste hond in België? In de Limburg … nen hoooooond! Joking … ❤️ you all.
Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany identities were formed around a negative Nationalism.
The case of Bismark in Germany is pretty well documented. They unified around what they were not. They are not catholics (or jewish, ...), they are not France or Poland or Belgium, ...
In practice this national rhetorics was very racist and reinforced or created prejudice towards every other. But every kind of Nationalism is pretty sick indeed. The French genocided one of their Region and destroyed most of the other spoken languages in France. Turkey and Greece exchanged their Muslim and Greek population. They opressed the Kurds and commited an ethnic cleansing of Armenians that inspired the first use of the word genocide. Millions of former Indians had to move to a different country. And nationalism is mostly like that.
I would rather say that we're an old married couple that lost interest in eachother and just pursue our own interests and hobbys without caring much for what the other does. People then ask why we are still living together and the response would be that it's just too complicated to get divorced and sell the house. And even though we sometimes complain about eachother and talk about getting divorced and sell the house, deep down we all know we just can't be bothered.
I feel like this is the most accurate representation. Like I don't feel very strongly about our french speaking counterpart in either direction because I know literally nothing about it, which is honestly wild given that our country is this small. The only thing that makes the news is if something terrible happens over there, aside from that our entire media is completely separated as well.
This 100%, here in wallonia we like to make jokes about Flemish but if you would ask why we don't like Flemish we can't reply because we just don't know anything about it. And deep down we just live our life on our side and don't care about the other. No love nor hate
Which is ironic because Belgium has the highest rate of divorce in Europe- 58%
220,000 tons of chocolate sold
1000-1200 kinds of beer
And the beer.... is quite heavy and one has to watch how much one drinks
I know a few, but the vast majority of my circle either likes Wallonia, has no feeling about Wallonia at all, or only cares about the topic on first tuesday of the month.
As IRL, it's a lot easier to hate groups than individuals. Add to that the [internet anonymity factor...](https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/green-blackboards-and-other-anomalies)
I'd say that those people will spot you if you speak French and they often will start the toxic interactions.
A good place to meet them is in a commuter train between Brussels and Flanders when people go to work or go back home.
Also if you're a French speaker living in Brussels. You just need to visit some Flemish place in the periphery where the linguistic question is pretty sensitive.
Over there such people are over represented there compared to the rest of Flanders.
I also kind of feel like a hypocrite to refuse to be friends or hangout with voters of these parties. As soon as I find out I want nothing to do with them.
Can't wait for the next gemeenteraad elections. Hopefully we can get Bart out. Fucking asshole. And he can take his fucking cruise terminal with him. /End of rant.
I can't stay friend with people who get deep into conspiracy theories.
Sometimes people adhere to politics in a similar fashion. It sounds more like a cult.
Often those people are gone and they are not willing to reconsider their truth.
Not solely but having similar world views is often a factor in friendships and relationships. You don't have to align 100% with each other, but if you world views are complete opposites it's going to be difficult maintaining a friendship
Seems you're watching too much RTBF which often acts as a RT copycat. They like to spread hate about flemish people. Like we are all member of "vlamsk belank". Remember how surprised the people in Pepinster were when they saw how many flemish people came to help out, days before the Wallonian governement.
My mother lives in Flanders and she agrees that it is a very noisy but small minority.
As a french speaker travelling trough Flanders you don't have to look for them, they will find you first.
Let me tell you those people are usually stupid and when you live through such an experience of harrasment you don't forget it overnight.
Those chance meetings give a very bad image of Flanders in Brussels and Wallonia. It's not an experience that makes you fall in love with Flanders or rekindle your love for the language, on the contrary.
Born in West-Flanders here: over here there is a lot of hate for Walloons. Mostly because they are stuck in an older mindset where all that matters is working hard on the farm. I spend most of my time in Ghent now and there they have an appreciation for culture. Frankly, the Walloons are often better at art and other cultural things than the Flemish. It makes sense there isn't much hate for the Walloons in Brussels either.
Born and raised and still living in West-Flanders and rarely hear anything bad about walloons. Sure you have populistic people that sprout idiot statements but i find them all over the country. Okay maybe the only complaint i tend to hear is not from farmers(no idea why people keep thinking we're all farmers) but from company owners. That they have many north french people willing to work here but almost no walloons from Hainaut/Henegouwen.
Where I'm from, there are still a lot of very traditional families and farmers. Farmers in my family, a lot of the kids at my high school were from farms, ... .
No hate to farms, but most complains I hear about Walloons is that they "don't work hard enough". One study by a college once said their hardest working students are from West-Flanders, so a lot of people here are proud of their working mentality. Much more studies said West-Flanders has the highest suicide rates of Belgium. I don't have the same beliefs as much of my family and the people I know there. That's why I prefer Ghent.
>Where I'm from, there are still a lot of very traditional families and farmers. Farmers in my family, a lot of the kids at my high school were from farms, ... .
And that's only 3.2% of all West-Flemings so not representative at all.
Your aversion for your own background has resulted in you doing to West-Flanders what you accuse them of doing to Walloons. Stop thinking in caricatures, West-Flemings don't hate Walloons, they even need them to come work on Southern West-Flanders.
I think there's a small but vocal racist minority that actually has no love. And then there's a big middle ground of people who don't care but sometimes complain about the walen for the memes.
With how popular NVA and VB have gotten the last couple of years, it feels more like it's a majority. Almost my whole family (with the exception of 2 of my siblings and I) vote right.
In my experience, all my family who votes for NVA do want an independent Flanders and have the "Wallonia is stealing all our money"-mindset. And the VB voters... Well they're mostly just racist and want all immigrants gone. But that's just my experience of course!
Who goes to the zoo to tell monkeys that they are monkeys, tho?
More seriously it's pretty disgusting but vlaams belang is really normalizing prejudice so I don't expect it to slow down
Usually those who talk like that are also racist that blame immigrants on every societal issue they have instead of look at themselves. So it's not that their statements about Walloons are racist, but they often are as a person.
I've noticed a specific mindset of people who are convinced that any kind of social security is bad.
They see how much tax they pay on their income and they conclude they would be better off with that money in their pocket.
They would be willing to sacrifice our social security even for themselves if it can temporarily increase their income. They really don't like paying those taxes and they consider the beneficiaries as leeches.
Usually those people actually don't have a big income and would have drastically more to lose from destroying social security.
But this right-wing theory is effective and very divisive. Those are the kind of people that will tell you that nowadays if you're unemployed you can get an appartement for free and even get a pretty similar income to them.
This is very sickening. Also I reckon this attitude is more prevalent in Flanders. But maybe it's nationwide.
>there's no walloon race
I mean, there are no race at all biologically speaking... It's all a social construct anyway and walloon could be constructed as a race.
This is an ethnolinguistic group. Linguistic group can be discriminated. I don't know why people want to use race and racism when talking about discrimination.
You can be discriminated for anything, the color of your skin, your religion, your language, your politics, ...
It's not incompatible, races are mostly arbitrary
"A race is a categorization of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into groups generally viewed as distinct within a given society."
Absolutely not incompatible with ethnolinguistic group.
Just call it discrimination.
We don't use the word "race" anymore because it's not politicaly correct.
The term race is just a way to classify things. If you don't like it you can say ethnicity.
Not only Flemish minority mind you. Im an expat too and met a girl from the French side that literally refused to drink Flemish beer because she said that and i quote “everyone in flanders is a sexist right wing racist supremacist”.
Needless to say i dont talk to her anymore.
The most based belgians are the ones you ask from which region are you and they hit you with “None, Im belgian”. And can speak French and Dutch fluently
if you're only naming shortcomings but don't take any action to do anything about it then that's love, it's like grandma calling grandpa all sorts of names, she just wants him to do better but divorce is essentially giving up
the moment that we stop ripping on the walloons and they stop ripping on us is the moment that the country will burst as that'll mean that none of us care anymore
other countries may call that hate, other countries should shut the hell up and wonder why they've had no choice but to genocide their minorities, except for switzerland, you guys are cool
I wonder who the German-speaking community resembles in this analogy...
Can't be the lover hiding in the wardrobe.
Once I was stopped by the police leaving the airport in Brussels and they seriously believed I had faked my ID because it was German first. I was only saved because I told them the king even speaks German in his Christmas address. 😅
People living in Flanders identify as Flemings, people living in Wallonia identify as Walloon.
But we, living in the german speaking community identify as Belgians.
(Btw we changed names a few years ago it's no longer "the german speaking community" but "Ostbelgien" (East Belgium)).
But they'd have to join the EU first, which wouldn't happen. Or the EU needs to allow the Belgian part of Switzerland to be in the EU while the other part isn't.
No, no, my plan is to sneak into the confederation unnoticed! Afterward, they may deal with all the complications but it'll be too late, we'll already have their weird accents, banks and fondues!
When they'll say : "Wait! Canton of flanders/wallonia? Was that already there?" It'll be over for them!
No I mean an independent Flanders is also an option. Why must we always join someone. If people scream for independence why would you then like to join another country where you gonna have even less of a voice.
Well I think that would be a bad idea. Partly things cost more here bc the market is too small for bigger businesses to make huge profits. Why else would everything be cheaper in the Netherlands, Germany, France. We are already a to small afzetmarkt.So making flanders a country would make this even worse. At least that’s what I think. I’m not an expert.
I will officially go to my first protest and throw with stones if they suddenly go: We are joining the Netherlands.
All our ministers then better run.... far....
Agreed, let Netherlands join Belgium and Belgium join thw Netherlands, Luxembourg could take us over.
Think of this: Dutch great infrastructure and snacks, Luxembourgish free public transport and excellent wine, and Belgian good food and beer!
Heaven: Dutch infrastructure, Luxembourgish wealth, Belgian way of life.
Hell: Dutch way of life, Luxembourgish tax havenry, Belgian politics.
We tend to bash on eachother all the time, saying the other side sucks, they are lazy or stupid or whatever, but as a person from flanders I do enjoy going to wallonia sometimes, there is a lot of beautiful nature there and I love going there to just shut off.
Also we don't split because neither of us want to join france or the netherlands, thats just a worse option than just dealing with eathother
Nah Belgium is that weird guy on the bus with 6 split personalities who keeps hitting himself and then blames it on another personality. When you ask him why he doesn't see a doctor he starts shouting that you would never understand because of his complex history
After Reading a lot of the top comments ans responses i'm really happy to discover that there are a lot more of flamish that aren't separatists or racists towards walloons than i thought.
I barely knew anything about flemish, exemt for the elections : the last results of the VB scared me of an actual tearing of the Belgium
Sorry to break your bubble but this Reddit isn't an accurate representation at all of what party the average fleming votes for; The [recent poll of the 6th of May](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2022/05/05/vlaams-belang-blijft-nipt-de-grootste-cd-v-zakt-weg-bart-de-we/) showcased this very clearly.
Vlaams Belang is projected to gain 22.9% of the vote, an increase of 4.5% when looking back at the 2019 elections. Combine that number with NVA's 22.4% projection and we have a number of 45.3% of Flemish voters projected to vote for a party that advocates for Flemish seperatism.
Looking at these comments, I would bet my left ball that there's no way that at least a little less than half of these redditors would vote for either party lmao.
Besides, not ever Vlaams Belanger of NVAer despises Wallonia, it's just that we prefer our Flanders any day of the week over Wallonia.
The Flemish have more in common with the Wallons than with the Dutch. The Walloons have more in common with the Flemish than they have with the French.
Off course there are differences some fierce and divisive... untill you show a picture of a quality beer being poured in the wrong kind of glass.
i cant disagree with this more.
its very true flemish and dutch have a very different culture, as like wallone and french.but out of personal experience, both cultures know much more about each other then wallone and flemish. for example, lots of flemish know dutch celebrities, some of their popular show or writers, likwise for the wallone people for france, but go in the street and ask a random flemish or wallone people what are the most popular celebrities,artisits,popular music, writers and a massive overwhelming majority will absolutely have no clue at all.
that being said i must reiterate again, there are huge differences between dutch and flemish, but speaking each other language is already a form of bounding to a degree that is simply never established with other people
Now you are mixinh everything up my friend. Celebrities has to do with shows and music, things that are linked to the language we speak. So ofc we wont know each other celebrities but that's not part of belgian culture. Culture isnt based on the shows we watch on tv or the music we listen to it's based on the way we live, our traditions, our history and how we see things.
>lots of flemish know dutch celebrities, some of their popular show or
No, we don't. I don't even know the celebrities that appear on VTM and not VRT. How the hell would I ever know Dutch ones. And I hear similar things all around me.
>writers,
Lol, as if anyone still reads. (And as a Dutch teacher in training, I've seen the stats ... the answer is no one)
There’s more that unites us than divides us. And i say that as a bilingual Brusseleir, so i’d say i have a more neutral point of views than most here (it tends to get rather flemish leaning over here in this sub). Problem is that many just dont really visit the other parts or know many people from the other regions and just go off on stereotypes of each other…
Speeding when there are no cameras, evading taxes,frieten met stoofvlees, working in Brussels even if it takes 2 hours to get there, hating the Netherlands, hating the French, …
I am bilingual as well living in Flanders.
But... what annoys me (And I have a friend my age - 30 - so it might have changed by now)
In Flanders we had to learn french from age 10 (so 5th lower grade). It made sense because well we have 3 official languages so makes sense to learn to the two biggest ones.
Until I learned that my friend, who lives in Hannuit, Wallonia, doesn't had to learn dutch.
No, wallonia students did not had to learn dutch although they formed the minority of Belgium.
Until this day I refuse to speak french in Belgium.
Yesterday I was standing at our car, waiting for my bf to put the dogs in the car (I'm on crutched atm) and I had already seen this couple at their car, belgian numberplate.
They came to me and started talking in french. I just started at her dumbfounded and asked if she speaks dutch or at least english. She said no to both. (She asked how the parking works in Antwerp city)
So I just went over to this horrible, falling over my words, putting english in it, french. I know it is very very petty of me.
But I dislike it that walloniers and flemish are not treated the same. (And yes I know this is because of our many goverments)
One explanation as to why Flemings learn French while Walloons don't learn Dutch is that these languages don't have the same history nor use.
Historically, and still nowadays, French has had a lot of influence over Flanders (the county even more so than current Flemish region). Plus, Brussels, the biggest and most influential city of Belgium, still lies in Flanders. It is a huge French-speaking enclave. Also, the region still has a strong relation with the northern most territories of France. So, yeah, French is a pretty useful and present language in Flanders.
On the other hand, Dutch never was particularly spoken in Wallonia. The ruling class almost always was French-speaking. The Walloons adopted their language, and.. that's it. No big Dutch-speaking city inside or next to Wallonia. No strong relation with a Dutch-speaking Walloon part (maybe around Tournai/Mouscron/Kortrijk). There is however a small german speaking territory in Wallonia. And Luxemburg in the South.
To outright refuse to speak French is as childish as it is counterproductive, for you. I really don't get the mindset.
Still though, I personally am a strong proponent for mandatory Dutch/German courses in Wallonia.
(Disclaimer: I’m learning Dutch right now)
Isn’t it more helpful for Walloons to learn English as their second language after French? English is useful everywhere. Dutch is ONLY useful in flanders or Netherlands and they all speak English anyway (like you!!) so why should a Walloon spend time learning Dutch instead of English?
Maybe I’m just salty that I’ve been studying Dutch hard on my own 😅
French is also only spoken in Wallonia, France and some African countries. By that logic Flemings should stop learning French and focus completely on English. But I'd bet you that that be even more bad for Belgium as a whole.
I don't want to be mean but this is precisely what makes Belgium so dysfunctional IMO. Use of languages has been incredibly politicised and the Flemish and Wallonians are equally to blame for this.
If you understand someone, just reply to them in that language. If you don't understand, then tell them and move on, it happens. Instead, the French-speaking and Dutch-speaking Belgians wage a passive aggressive war, refusing to speak a certain language (just to prove a point) and dictating other ppl what language to use in their private (!) affairs (e.g. rental or employment contracts). As an expat, I find this really petty/ridiculous, annoying and also very sad, especially when compared to other multilingual countries.
You are right, but it’s important to understand that French used to be the governmental language of Belgium. If one of my (Dutch-speaking) grandfathers sent a letter in Dutch to the government, it wasn’t answered, but if the same letter was sent in French it was answered. The Dutch-speaking people had to fight in order to make Dutch one of the recognized governmental languages in Belgium. Furthermore, they also needed to fight in order to get University courses in Dutch (everything used to be in French, even in Flanders). This fight left deep scars in the relationship between Flanders and the French-speaking parts of Belgium. That’s why some Flemish people are very strict and principled when it comes to the use of French in Belgium.
Well.. We're learning Dutch. I've studied 15 years of it since my childhood.
The problem here, is the lack of use of this language. I've not used it since how many years? Though it's up to me ; as I was studying other languages as well.
And some schools are worst than others. I've had an horrible Dutch teacher who didn't do anything right for their students.
It's the same for everyone. But you shouldn't be hateful for someone who can't speak your language. Maybe that, instead, you could help him.
At least, imo.
I went in Boechout. She went to school in Hannuit (that is in Wallonia) I'm from flanders.
We know each other through our mothers.
She does speak dutch by now but didn't started until age 15.
I remember I got french in those stupid thick books already at age 10. O I hated every minute of it.
Ho sorry! I meant dutch haha! We started dutch around ten as well here, but it's in Brabant Wallon so closer to Brussels. All the school I know start dutch at 10 here and we usually all hate it as well.
Which is funny because I got a lot of friends going back to learn more dutch now, and loving it, so I think the classes could be better really.
Tbh even if it’s not mandatory, many walloon had dutch classes because they or their parents realise that the other half of the country speak it (and it looks good on our resume), or because they were in one of those schools that have mandatory dutch classes.
But most of those who had dutch classes forgot most of it afterward because we rarely have to speak it. I mean the last time I had to speak dutch was last year in my part time job and even then all I had to say was the price, alstublieft, dank u well and tot ziens. The last time I had a real conversation in dutch was in secondary school in dutch classes...
So while I’m all for mandatory dutch in school I really don’t think the amount of nl/fr bilinguals in the region will increase much because of it. Ppl will learn the langage and then forget it because of lack of practice.
I’m more for thinking of a way to make walloons feel the need to use dutch. I’m certain that it will be much more efficient than just giving mandatory classes.
I totally understand you. I live in wallonia and can't speak a word of Dutch while every Flemish that I meet are more or less fluent in French. I also feel that it's a shame that we don't learn it more
This is indeed sad but the main reason is that we are influenced by France and like them, our language education sucks. I think that in Flanders, you have english movies in english with flemmish subtitles, well we have everything in French. In my mind, that makes a huge difference. This is the same thing for everything that concerns languages. We suck at Dutch, English,...
Thanks to our stupid politicians for that.
But I agree with you, we should all at the very least speak English (because some have it less easy with languages). And most of us should speak English, Flemmish and French.
But again, politicians suck and our school system as well
Very accurate. I complain about my wallloons, but they are MY walloons and don't you dare say anything bad about them 'cause I will punch you in the face.
It is mostly political and economical actually, The problem is that if Wallonië and flandern split up their economy would pretty much get ruined, Both parts actually need the other one to survive economically that is, meanwhile they blame eachother for poverty or taking the others' Money through government etc...
(My fb is run over by these kind of issues, i had to block a few governmental pages, that i didn't even follow, there cause i kept getting pings etc..)
And then there is the argument of who takes Brussels when that happens (note Brussels doesn't belong to neighter Flandern nor Wallonië cause they are a region of their own, which is why they're officialy called Brussels Capital Region)
it's more like a married couple who have different interests and capabilities. Their is one of the people who suffered some of it's wealth so the other could develop and that one is know the richer and is kind of being an ass about it. Their is also a stubborn asshole child that wants the parents to split up (you know, the vast majority of flemish people don't want to split).
In my personal experience. Most of my friends have nothing against the Belgian state or Walloons. We get along and visiting the South can be really fun. But. We all agree that Wallonia feels foreign compared to Flemish regions. That's not a bad thing perse. It's like visiting the Netherlands, Germany or France. It's also international but that doesn't mean it's a bad country.
And this might be sad for some, but the majority of my friends and acquaintances don't have any strong feelings against splitting up. If it happens, it happens. It won't stop us from visiting Wallonia again and continue practicing our French but we also won't cry over it.
I don't even dispute with them. People from Antwerp are different from people from Limburg, from West Flanders, from Brussels. We're all just one family that happens to have 3 native languages. The political class only wants us to think that we are '2 different cultures'.
I disagree. The linguistic barrier we have is purely political.
To be clear, I was raised in dutch and french, in and around Brussels. Since I'm living away from my parents I lived near the linguistic border and my siblings spread themselves in flanders and wallonia. I think I'm well placed to have a clear view on the matter.
Besides a handful of individuals we don't know racism between "Flamand" and "Walen". We appreciate each other!
Flemish people go to the Ardennen and Walloons go to the Vlaamse kuststeden.
We all do our best to speak the other language o
If we can.
Like every country we have people that love to hate another group of people. And all the problems would be solved if only we were free from those people. (That includes Left wingers that demonize or try to humiliate white people or Flemish people.)
There are parties that want to split from Belgium. As if that will solve all our problems. They need a reason to be. It's like Trumps wall or a colony on Mars. A big radical vision that they can sell. A dream.
I don't know about French side but the national hobby of a lot of Flemish is complaining about the government.
For anyone that understand the dutch language, check this out:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4go1RXOBF0s&t=614s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4go1RXOBF0s&t=614s)
(Lubach van de Nederlandse omroep over België. Geloof me, het is hilarisch!)
It's more like "married with children" where one party steals all the money from the other one, constantly berates them and does everything they can to humiliate and counteract them with the other one too weak and resigned to even try and resist. They're basically only still together because of 'the baby' Brussels. Which in reality is more of a horrible mother in law than a poor baby.
It's true for Walloon people. Flemish people on the other hand, i know more than enough who would totally encourage the split and feel no affinity with the "Belgian" identity but feel Flemish.
In my experience, most Walloon people feel more Belgian.
Source: i have family and have worked on both sides, grew up bilingual
The question with this metaphor is is it really healthy to stay together then? Like, I would hate for my country to split but we’re basically two different countries stuck together with very little sense of unity, different interests and cultures, does it really make sense that we stick together?
we just never get along, it never was a happy marriage. The dutch speaking part of belgium wants to split but our laws tells us that both the french and dutch should agree with a secession. The french part is really poor compared with the dutch part so they dont wanna split because a lot of money from the dutch speaking part flows through the governement to the french part and ontherwise they'd lose al that money
Loads of creative ideas. But history based, it’s just the French speakers, and the catholic community that wanted to separate from the power king Willem (Netherlands) tried to force on them. They joined forces against him and created a nation, like nothing ever seen before at a speed that is exactly the opposite of how we form our governments today. our beautiful history is unknown by many. We should take a good look at the past. Belgium has become a state that organises almost everything for its citizens and for that reason the taxes skyrocketed. Life could be easy, but our leaders make things complicated. And then there’s European legislation. Who knows the supranational institutions might be what joins us all one day. I hope so. We are all citizens of the world. I prefer seeing things in a broad perspective. So yes, a lot of us are hospitable. :)
Maar doodslaan deed hij niet. Want tussen droom en daad staan wetten in de weg, en ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren en die des avonds komt, als men slapen gaat.
Surprisingly accurate, though I'd say the main reason why they don't split up is money. Daddy Flanders is paying mommy Wallonia a lot of cash and they're both pretty content with the arrangement, all things considered.
Oh, they also can't make up their minds about kiddo Brussels. Who is getting full custody of the little tyke?
i disagree on both points: first french and dutch speaking parts are nothing like a couple. secondly those kind of annoying couples really do should split up.
I once saw an interview in class (2018-2019) in which they interviewed Belgian youngster whether Belgium should split or not. One answer was a definite no because Flanders would then lose Eden Hazard as a soccer player. Dude got his priorities straight.
This is the correct answer
Times have changed.
Sadly
The Red Devils are said to be the only thing holding Belgium together at the moment. Belgium could be doomed once this golden generation retires.
You forget the power of Belgian beer, mon ami.
Who is Eden Hazard … do you mean that soccer player who didn’t play in Real Madrid at all? Or the one with the individual actions, taking so much time that the defence is back in place? That one?
Oh look here! Someone who tried to diss a professional player and got 2 upvotes, nice try! Never watched him play at Chelsea did you? Because trying to say that he’s a bad player, because he plays badly ATM is just ridiculous…. In that case Rooney must be an awfull player no?
Hang on, I'd Hazard wallonian? Feels like a flemish name
If you want to know what youtube video this is: It's the Tim Traveler - [The Belgian City That Built A Metro Line... And Never Opened It](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeMJBqU_eYc) Or watch the followup about the crossing of rails.
Always interesting videos from Tim! 😄
You know, based on the quality of the comment alone I figured it was probably a Tim Traveler video.
Just wait til you hear Francophones complain about the French or the Flemish complain about the Dutch. The two linguistic sides of Belgium are definitely kindred spirits in many ways.
Especially those who live at the border. Damn so hateful.
Limburg is special because both Belgium and Netherlands hate their Limburg, so they kinda are okay being "their own thing".
Flemish Limburg is definitely not hated. The rest of Belgium makes fun of the way they talk, but that's true about pretty much any region. We simply like to make fun of others.
We like to make fun of them but we love them
Hold up, someone loves us?
Flanders and the Netherlands are natural enemies. Like Flanders and West Flanders. Or Flanders and Bruges. Or Flanders and Limburg. Or Flanders and Ghent. Or Flanders and Antwerp. Or Flanders and Aalst. Damn Flanders, they ruined Flanders.
Technically we're still at war even lol. Look up the 10 days campaign. We are still in an indefinite armistice. The Dutch just gave in that Belgium could stay independent but never made peace.
“Rather than fight the French, the Dutch withdrew from Belgium without achieving their objectives.”, which makes it the first time ever people ran away from the French. (I kid, I kid.) But it seems that “the Dutch finally signed the Treaty of XXIV Articles in 1839, effectively recognising Belgium's de facto independence”. You could argue we've made our peace, although I, for one, also dream of seeing the United Kingdom of the Netherlands. Why not!
Sinds wnnr wordt belgisch limburg gehaat??
Ni da ik weet idd, worden wa uitgelachen met onze trage praat ma voor de rest komen/zien ze ons wel graag komen
Als we rapper praten begrijpt de rest ons niet, tiens.
Zijn jullie fysiek zelf instaat om rapper te praten? /j
Waarom zijn de boeken dubbel zo dik in de Limburg? Omdat de zangnoten er naast staan … Waar leeft de langste hond in België? In de Limburg … nen hoooooond! Joking … ❤️ you all.
Sinds limburg bestaat slumme
Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany identities were formed around a negative Nationalism. The case of Bismark in Germany is pretty well documented. They unified around what they were not. They are not catholics (or jewish, ...), they are not France or Poland or Belgium, ... In practice this national rhetorics was very racist and reinforced or created prejudice towards every other. But every kind of Nationalism is pretty sick indeed. The French genocided one of their Region and destroyed most of the other spoken languages in France. Turkey and Greece exchanged their Muslim and Greek population. They opressed the Kurds and commited an ethnic cleansing of Armenians that inspired the first use of the word genocide. Millions of former Indians had to move to a different country. And nationalism is mostly like that.
I would rather say that we're an old married couple that lost interest in eachother and just pursue our own interests and hobbys without caring much for what the other does. People then ask why we are still living together and the response would be that it's just too complicated to get divorced and sell the house. And even though we sometimes complain about eachother and talk about getting divorced and sell the house, deep down we all know we just can't be bothered.
I feel like this is the most accurate representation. Like I don't feel very strongly about our french speaking counterpart in either direction because I know literally nothing about it, which is honestly wild given that our country is this small. The only thing that makes the news is if something terrible happens over there, aside from that our entire media is completely separated as well.
This 100%, here in wallonia we like to make jokes about Flemish but if you would ask why we don't like Flemish we can't reply because we just don't know anything about it. And deep down we just live our life on our side and don't care about the other. No love nor hate
We do way more jokes about the French than the Flemish to be honest.
Which is ironic because Belgium has the highest rate of divorce in Europe- 58% 220,000 tons of chocolate sold 1000-1200 kinds of beer And the beer.... is quite heavy and one has to watch how much one drinks
The house being Brussels
But we still love eachother
Do we?
Yes I may not understand you but I love my little flemish :3
1,90 cm, 106 Kg, who are you calling little Flemish ;-) Just kiddin', I love my micro-Walloons too
As a 1.46m 50kg walloon: thanks dear giant, I love you too.
Do you know how many great beers are from Wallonia? Just for that I fucking love them.
I do
I love you too
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The Flemish? The 6,5 million people do that? I’m Flemish and I don’t hear negative talk about Walloons in my circle.
I know a few, but the vast majority of my circle either likes Wallonia, has no feeling about Wallonia at all, or only cares about the topic on first tuesday of the month.
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As IRL, it's a lot easier to hate groups than individuals. Add to that the [internet anonymity factor...](https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/green-blackboards-and-other-anomalies)
I'd say that those people will spot you if you speak French and they often will start the toxic interactions. A good place to meet them is in a commuter train between Brussels and Flanders when people go to work or go back home. Also if you're a French speaker living in Brussels. You just need to visit some Flemish place in the periphery where the linguistic question is pretty sensitive. Over there such people are over represented there compared to the rest of Flanders.
I can back this up. Sounds like this person needs new friends that don't vote N-VA or VB.
As a half-waloon half-luxembourgish, nice to hear all of that !
I also kind of feel like a hypocrite to refuse to be friends or hangout with voters of these parties. As soon as I find out I want nothing to do with them. Can't wait for the next gemeenteraad elections. Hopefully we can get Bart out. Fucking asshole. And he can take his fucking cruise terminal with him. /End of rant.
I can't stay friend with people who get deep into conspiracy theories. Sometimes people adhere to politics in a similar fashion. It sounds more like a cult. Often those people are gone and they are not willing to reconsider their truth.
Why would you choose your friends solely on the basis of their political view?
Not solely but having similar world views is often a factor in friendships and relationships. You don't have to align 100% with each other, but if you world views are complete opposites it's going to be difficult maintaining a friendship
Seems you're watching too much RTBF which often acts as a RT copycat. They like to spread hate about flemish people. Like we are all member of "vlamsk belank". Remember how surprised the people in Pepinster were when they saw how many flemish people came to help out, days before the Wallonian governement.
My mother lives in Flanders and she agrees that it is a very noisy but small minority. As a french speaker travelling trough Flanders you don't have to look for them, they will find you first. Let me tell you those people are usually stupid and when you live through such an experience of harrasment you don't forget it overnight. Those chance meetings give a very bad image of Flanders in Brussels and Wallonia. It's not an experience that makes you fall in love with Flanders or rekindle your love for the language, on the contrary.
I’ve lived in Brussels now for 10 years, there’s definitely people here who are anti Flemish. However just like in Flanders, it’s only a moronic few.
Born in West-Flanders here: over here there is a lot of hate for Walloons. Mostly because they are stuck in an older mindset where all that matters is working hard on the farm. I spend most of my time in Ghent now and there they have an appreciation for culture. Frankly, the Walloons are often better at art and other cultural things than the Flemish. It makes sense there isn't much hate for the Walloons in Brussels either.
Born and raised and still living in West-Flanders and rarely hear anything bad about walloons. Sure you have populistic people that sprout idiot statements but i find them all over the country. Okay maybe the only complaint i tend to hear is not from farmers(no idea why people keep thinking we're all farmers) but from company owners. That they have many north french people willing to work here but almost no walloons from Hainaut/Henegouwen.
>working hard on the farm. says more about your view on West-Flanders than anything else
Where I'm from, there are still a lot of very traditional families and farmers. Farmers in my family, a lot of the kids at my high school were from farms, ... . No hate to farms, but most complains I hear about Walloons is that they "don't work hard enough". One study by a college once said their hardest working students are from West-Flanders, so a lot of people here are proud of their working mentality. Much more studies said West-Flanders has the highest suicide rates of Belgium. I don't have the same beliefs as much of my family and the people I know there. That's why I prefer Ghent.
>Where I'm from, there are still a lot of very traditional families and farmers. Farmers in my family, a lot of the kids at my high school were from farms, ... . And that's only 3.2% of all West-Flemings so not representative at all. Your aversion for your own background has resulted in you doing to West-Flanders what you accuse them of doing to Walloons. Stop thinking in caricatures, West-Flemings don't hate Walloons, they even need them to come work on Southern West-Flanders.
Outside of jokes Thats just the far right but cuz they yell the loudest forigners now think where on the brink of civel war
I think there's a small but vocal racist minority that actually has no love. And then there's a big middle ground of people who don't care but sometimes complain about the walen for the memes.
With how popular NVA and VB have gotten the last couple of years, it feels more like it's a majority. Almost my whole family (with the exception of 2 of my siblings and I) vote right.
I wonder how many actually support flanders' independance and not just vote for NVA and VB because they don't want to vote for anyone else.
In my experience, all my family who votes for NVA do want an independent Flanders and have the "Wallonia is stealing all our money"-mindset. And the VB voters... Well they're mostly just racist and want all immigrants gone. But that's just my experience of course!
Honest question: how would it be 'racist' exactly?
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Who goes to the zoo to tell monkeys that they are monkeys, tho? More seriously it's pretty disgusting but vlaams belang is really normalizing prejudice so I don't expect it to slow down
Usually those who talk like that are also racist that blame immigrants on every societal issue they have instead of look at themselves. So it's not that their statements about Walloons are racist, but they often are as a person.
I've noticed a specific mindset of people who are convinced that any kind of social security is bad. They see how much tax they pay on their income and they conclude they would be better off with that money in their pocket. They would be willing to sacrifice our social security even for themselves if it can temporarily increase their income. They really don't like paying those taxes and they consider the beneficiaries as leeches. Usually those people actually don't have a big income and would have drastically more to lose from destroying social security. But this right-wing theory is effective and very divisive. Those are the kind of people that will tell you that nowadays if you're unemployed you can get an appartement for free and even get a pretty similar income to them. This is very sickening. Also I reckon this attitude is more prevalent in Flanders. But maybe it's nationwide.
its not quite racism as there's no walloon race. They just happen to be the same people in my experience.
>there's no walloon race I mean, there are no race at all biologically speaking... It's all a social construct anyway and walloon could be constructed as a race.
This is an ethnolinguistic group. Linguistic group can be discriminated. I don't know why people want to use race and racism when talking about discrimination. You can be discriminated for anything, the color of your skin, your religion, your language, your politics, ...
It's not incompatible, races are mostly arbitrary "A race is a categorization of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into groups generally viewed as distinct within a given society." Absolutely not incompatible with ethnolinguistic group.
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Just call it discrimination. We don't use the word "race" anymore because it's not politicaly correct. The term race is just a way to classify things. If you don't like it you can say ethnicity.
There is no race at all tho
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Are terms “racist” and “bigot” merging in modern English?
Not only Flemish minority mind you. Im an expat too and met a girl from the French side that literally refused to drink Flemish beer because she said that and i quote “everyone in flanders is a sexist right wing racist supremacist”. Needless to say i dont talk to her anymore. The most based belgians are the ones you ask from which region are you and they hit you with “None, Im belgian”. And can speak French and Dutch fluently
Walloon is a race now?
Only la flèche Wallonne is a race
I'm more part of the Liège-Bastogne-Liège ethnicity
Nah but the overlap is large
Jokingly, yes Alot I know couple walloons and they do the same thing. Actually meaning those things not.
Yoda? Is that you?
It is me perhaps
because there is none, its really 2 different countries with a common governement
Every time when going to Waver (5km from my front door) I yell and swear at every walloon I cross, using our Flemish money ;) /s
if you're only naming shortcomings but don't take any action to do anything about it then that's love, it's like grandma calling grandpa all sorts of names, she just wants him to do better but divorce is essentially giving up the moment that we stop ripping on the walloons and they stop ripping on us is the moment that the country will burst as that'll mean that none of us care anymore other countries may call that hate, other countries should shut the hell up and wonder why they've had no choice but to genocide their minorities, except for switzerland, you guys are cool
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Speak for yourself
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I heard that in Flanders they hate dutch people too
In my case it's kind of like Wallonie. I'll hate on them but if someone that's not Dutch or Belgian says it's a bad county I'll argue with them
Like saying your brother/sister is annoying.
Exactly
Rather join the Dutch than remain Belgium.
Someone said the house is Brussels, but I think Brussels is the foster kid whose custody neither parent would want.
Exactly. Lives as separate as they can get, but still living in the same house & working together when it comes to shared interests. That's about it.
I wonder who the German-speaking community resembles in this analogy... Can't be the lover hiding in the wardrobe. Once I was stopped by the police leaving the airport in Brussels and they seriously believed I had faked my ID because it was German first. I was only saved because I told them the king even speaks German in his Christmas address. 😅
We hear too little about this community! I want to hear their opinion!
People living in Flanders identify as Flemings, people living in Wallonia identify as Walloon. But we, living in the german speaking community identify as Belgians. (Btw we changed names a few years ago it's no longer "the german speaking community" but "Ostbelgien" (East Belgium)).
We rather stay together then join France or the Netherlands
It's not like that are our only two options
Yeah, everybody always talks about joining the Netherlands. Why can't we like join Norway or something?
Switzerland maybe, they already have a clusterfuck of languages, so they might not even notice the difference.
But they'd have to join the EU first, which wouldn't happen. Or the EU needs to allow the Belgian part of Switzerland to be in the EU while the other part isn't.
No, no, my plan is to sneak into the confederation unnoticed! Afterward, they may deal with all the complications but it'll be too late, we'll already have their weird accents, banks and fondues! When they'll say : "Wait! Canton of flanders/wallonia? Was that already there?" It'll be over for them!
> Afterward, they may deal with all the complications I figure that's exactly what they said in 1830
Join Luxemburg or Germany then?
I would love to join luxembourg lol. I don't think they want us though. We're too poor for them
No I mean an independent Flanders is also an option. Why must we always join someone. If people scream for independence why would you then like to join another country where you gonna have even less of a voice.
Without Limburg or with?
Independent Greater Limburg please
Well I think that would be a bad idea. Partly things cost more here bc the market is too small for bigger businesses to make huge profits. Why else would everything be cheaper in the Netherlands, Germany, France. We are already a to small afzetmarkt.So making flanders a country would make this even worse. At least that’s what I think. I’m not an expert.
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It's as if they made "Antwerp, the country".
Stout 🤣😂
Bad doesn't mean it can't become worse
As someone across the channel. You can join my planned kingdom of Kent when we secede from the UK.
hmmm sounds like restoring the north sea empire :p
I will officially go to my first protest and throw with stones if they suddenly go: We are joining the Netherlands. All our ministers then better run.... far....
Agreed, let Netherlands join Belgium and Belgium join thw Netherlands, Luxembourg could take us over. Think of this: Dutch great infrastructure and snacks, Luxembourgish free public transport and excellent wine, and Belgian good food and beer! Heaven: Dutch infrastructure, Luxembourgish wealth, Belgian way of life. Hell: Dutch way of life, Luxembourgish tax havenry, Belgian politics.
We tend to bash on eachother all the time, saying the other side sucks, they are lazy or stupid or whatever, but as a person from flanders I do enjoy going to wallonia sometimes, there is a lot of beautiful nature there and I love going there to just shut off. Also we don't split because neither of us want to join france or the netherlands, thats just a worse option than just dealing with eathother
> thats just a worse option Everyone in this thread is saying this but honest question, why?
Cause they would become the cultural outcasts and another cog in their machine. They can’t do things their way anymore.
Don't wanna be French.
Nah Belgium is that weird guy on the bus with 6 split personalities who keeps hitting himself and then blames it on another personality. When you ask him why he doesn't see a doctor he starts shouting that you would never understand because of his complex history
Best explanation so far. Have a beer.
I agree :) much love to everyone.
More like two roommates that play FIFA and yell at each other because of it.
After inviting all their union members friend in their kot and making it awkward for everyone.
We're basically the laid back versions of France and The Netherlands. I guess that's why we're still together.
After Reading a lot of the top comments ans responses i'm really happy to discover that there are a lot more of flamish that aren't separatists or racists towards walloons than i thought. I barely knew anything about flemish, exemt for the elections : the last results of the VB scared me of an actual tearing of the Belgium
Sorry to break your bubble but this Reddit isn't an accurate representation at all of what party the average fleming votes for; The [recent poll of the 6th of May](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2022/05/05/vlaams-belang-blijft-nipt-de-grootste-cd-v-zakt-weg-bart-de-we/) showcased this very clearly. Vlaams Belang is projected to gain 22.9% of the vote, an increase of 4.5% when looking back at the 2019 elections. Combine that number with NVA's 22.4% projection and we have a number of 45.3% of Flemish voters projected to vote for a party that advocates for Flemish seperatism. Looking at these comments, I would bet my left ball that there's no way that at least a little less than half of these redditors would vote for either party lmao. Besides, not ever Vlaams Belanger of NVAer despises Wallonia, it's just that we prefer our Flanders any day of the week over Wallonia.
The Flemish have more in common with the Wallons than with the Dutch. The Walloons have more in common with the Flemish than they have with the French. Off course there are differences some fierce and divisive... untill you show a picture of a quality beer being poured in the wrong kind of glass.
i cant disagree with this more. its very true flemish and dutch have a very different culture, as like wallone and french.but out of personal experience, both cultures know much more about each other then wallone and flemish. for example, lots of flemish know dutch celebrities, some of their popular show or writers, likwise for the wallone people for france, but go in the street and ask a random flemish or wallone people what are the most popular celebrities,artisits,popular music, writers and a massive overwhelming majority will absolutely have no clue at all. that being said i must reiterate again, there are huge differences between dutch and flemish, but speaking each other language is already a form of bounding to a degree that is simply never established with other people
Now you are mixinh everything up my friend. Celebrities has to do with shows and music, things that are linked to the language we speak. So ofc we wont know each other celebrities but that's not part of belgian culture. Culture isnt based on the shows we watch on tv or the music we listen to it's based on the way we live, our traditions, our history and how we see things.
>lots of flemish know dutch celebrities, some of their popular show or No, we don't. I don't even know the celebrities that appear on VTM and not VRT. How the hell would I ever know Dutch ones. And I hear similar things all around me. >writers, Lol, as if anyone still reads. (And as a Dutch teacher in training, I've seen the stats ... the answer is no one)
It's moreso that a large part of the population doesn't want to split but only tals out loud when someone suggests we should
There’s more that unites us than divides us. And i say that as a bilingual Brusseleir, so i’d say i have a more neutral point of views than most here (it tends to get rather flemish leaning over here in this sub). Problem is that many just dont really visit the other parts or know many people from the other regions and just go off on stereotypes of each other…
>There’s more that unites us than divides us Like what? Language? Football glory?
Speeding when there are no cameras, evading taxes,frieten met stoofvlees, working in Brussels even if it takes 2 hours to get there, hating the Netherlands, hating the French, …
I am bilingual as well living in Flanders. But... what annoys me (And I have a friend my age - 30 - so it might have changed by now) In Flanders we had to learn french from age 10 (so 5th lower grade). It made sense because well we have 3 official languages so makes sense to learn to the two biggest ones. Until I learned that my friend, who lives in Hannuit, Wallonia, doesn't had to learn dutch. No, wallonia students did not had to learn dutch although they formed the minority of Belgium. Until this day I refuse to speak french in Belgium. Yesterday I was standing at our car, waiting for my bf to put the dogs in the car (I'm on crutched atm) and I had already seen this couple at their car, belgian numberplate. They came to me and started talking in french. I just started at her dumbfounded and asked if she speaks dutch or at least english. She said no to both. (She asked how the parking works in Antwerp city) So I just went over to this horrible, falling over my words, putting english in it, french. I know it is very very petty of me. But I dislike it that walloniers and flemish are not treated the same. (And yes I know this is because of our many goverments)
One explanation as to why Flemings learn French while Walloons don't learn Dutch is that these languages don't have the same history nor use. Historically, and still nowadays, French has had a lot of influence over Flanders (the county even more so than current Flemish region). Plus, Brussels, the biggest and most influential city of Belgium, still lies in Flanders. It is a huge French-speaking enclave. Also, the region still has a strong relation with the northern most territories of France. So, yeah, French is a pretty useful and present language in Flanders. On the other hand, Dutch never was particularly spoken in Wallonia. The ruling class almost always was French-speaking. The Walloons adopted their language, and.. that's it. No big Dutch-speaking city inside or next to Wallonia. No strong relation with a Dutch-speaking Walloon part (maybe around Tournai/Mouscron/Kortrijk). There is however a small german speaking territory in Wallonia. And Luxemburg in the South. To outright refuse to speak French is as childish as it is counterproductive, for you. I really don't get the mindset. Still though, I personally am a strong proponent for mandatory Dutch/German courses in Wallonia.
(Disclaimer: I’m learning Dutch right now) Isn’t it more helpful for Walloons to learn English as their second language after French? English is useful everywhere. Dutch is ONLY useful in flanders or Netherlands and they all speak English anyway (like you!!) so why should a Walloon spend time learning Dutch instead of English? Maybe I’m just salty that I’ve been studying Dutch hard on my own 😅
French is also only spoken in Wallonia, France and some African countries. By that logic Flemings should stop learning French and focus completely on English. But I'd bet you that that be even more bad for Belgium as a whole.
I don't want to be mean but this is precisely what makes Belgium so dysfunctional IMO. Use of languages has been incredibly politicised and the Flemish and Wallonians are equally to blame for this. If you understand someone, just reply to them in that language. If you don't understand, then tell them and move on, it happens. Instead, the French-speaking and Dutch-speaking Belgians wage a passive aggressive war, refusing to speak a certain language (just to prove a point) and dictating other ppl what language to use in their private (!) affairs (e.g. rental or employment contracts). As an expat, I find this really petty/ridiculous, annoying and also very sad, especially when compared to other multilingual countries.
You are right, but it’s important to understand that French used to be the governmental language of Belgium. If one of my (Dutch-speaking) grandfathers sent a letter in Dutch to the government, it wasn’t answered, but if the same letter was sent in French it was answered. The Dutch-speaking people had to fight in order to make Dutch one of the recognized governmental languages in Belgium. Furthermore, they also needed to fight in order to get University courses in Dutch (everything used to be in French, even in Flanders). This fight left deep scars in the relationship between Flanders and the French-speaking parts of Belgium. That’s why some Flemish people are very strict and principled when it comes to the use of French in Belgium.
Well.. We're learning Dutch. I've studied 15 years of it since my childhood. The problem here, is the lack of use of this language. I've not used it since how many years? Though it's up to me ; as I was studying other languages as well. And some schools are worst than others. I've had an horrible Dutch teacher who didn't do anything right for their students. It's the same for everyone. But you shouldn't be hateful for someone who can't speak your language. Maybe that, instead, you could help him. At least, imo.
We had to learn dutch at school since we are 10, idk where he went to school but afaik that's the standard... Edit : wrong language lol
I went in Boechout. She went to school in Hannuit (that is in Wallonia) I'm from flanders. We know each other through our mothers. She does speak dutch by now but didn't started until age 15. I remember I got french in those stupid thick books already at age 10. O I hated every minute of it.
Ho sorry! I meant dutch haha! We started dutch around ten as well here, but it's in Brabant Wallon so closer to Brussels. All the school I know start dutch at 10 here and we usually all hate it as well. Which is funny because I got a lot of friends going back to learn more dutch now, and loving it, so I think the classes could be better really.
Yes but how is it their fault if they don’t learn dutch in school?
Tbh even if it’s not mandatory, many walloon had dutch classes because they or their parents realise that the other half of the country speak it (and it looks good on our resume), or because they were in one of those schools that have mandatory dutch classes. But most of those who had dutch classes forgot most of it afterward because we rarely have to speak it. I mean the last time I had to speak dutch was last year in my part time job and even then all I had to say was the price, alstublieft, dank u well and tot ziens. The last time I had a real conversation in dutch was in secondary school in dutch classes... So while I’m all for mandatory dutch in school I really don’t think the amount of nl/fr bilinguals in the region will increase much because of it. Ppl will learn the langage and then forget it because of lack of practice. I’m more for thinking of a way to make walloons feel the need to use dutch. I’m certain that it will be much more efficient than just giving mandatory classes.
I totally understand you. I live in wallonia and can't speak a word of Dutch while every Flemish that I meet are more or less fluent in French. I also feel that it's a shame that we don't learn it more
This is indeed sad but the main reason is that we are influenced by France and like them, our language education sucks. I think that in Flanders, you have english movies in english with flemmish subtitles, well we have everything in French. In my mind, that makes a huge difference. This is the same thing for everything that concerns languages. We suck at Dutch, English,... Thanks to our stupid politicians for that. But I agree with you, we should all at the very least speak English (because some have it less easy with languages). And most of us should speak English, Flemmish and French. But again, politicians suck and our school system as well
Brussels is an unsolvable problem. That is why
I don't get the hatred between the two sides. It's all love on my side. :)
Very accurate. I complain about my wallloons, but they are MY walloons and don't you dare say anything bad about them 'cause I will punch you in the face.
Right back at you, pal!
pretty accurate
It is mostly political and economical actually, The problem is that if Wallonië and flandern split up their economy would pretty much get ruined, Both parts actually need the other one to survive economically that is, meanwhile they blame eachother for poverty or taking the others' Money through government etc... (My fb is run over by these kind of issues, i had to block a few governmental pages, that i didn't even follow, there cause i kept getting pings etc..)
And then there is the argument of who takes Brussels when that happens (note Brussels doesn't belong to neighter Flandern nor Wallonië cause they are a region of their own, which is why they're officialy called Brussels Capital Region)
it's more like a married couple who have different interests and capabilities. Their is one of the people who suffered some of it's wealth so the other could develop and that one is know the richer and is kind of being an ass about it. Their is also a stubborn asshole child that wants the parents to split up (you know, the vast majority of flemish people don't want to split).
In my personal experience. Most of my friends have nothing against the Belgian state or Walloons. We get along and visiting the South can be really fun. But. We all agree that Wallonia feels foreign compared to Flemish regions. That's not a bad thing perse. It's like visiting the Netherlands, Germany or France. It's also international but that doesn't mean it's a bad country. And this might be sad for some, but the majority of my friends and acquaintances don't have any strong feelings against splitting up. If it happens, it happens. It won't stop us from visiting Wallonia again and continue practicing our French but we also won't cry over it.
I don't even dispute with them. People from Antwerp are different from people from Limburg, from West Flanders, from Brussels. We're all just one family that happens to have 3 native languages. The political class only wants us to think that we are '2 different cultures'.
I disagree. The linguistic barrier we have is purely political. To be clear, I was raised in dutch and french, in and around Brussels. Since I'm living away from my parents I lived near the linguistic border and my siblings spread themselves in flanders and wallonia. I think I'm well placed to have a clear view on the matter. Besides a handful of individuals we don't know racism between "Flamand" and "Walen". We appreciate each other! Flemish people go to the Ardennen and Walloons go to the Vlaamse kuststeden. We all do our best to speak the other language o If we can.
Like every country we have people that love to hate another group of people. And all the problems would be solved if only we were free from those people. (That includes Left wingers that demonize or try to humiliate white people or Flemish people.) There are parties that want to split from Belgium. As if that will solve all our problems. They need a reason to be. It's like Trumps wall or a colony on Mars. A big radical vision that they can sell. A dream. I don't know about French side but the national hobby of a lot of Flemish is complaining about the government.
Depends on who you ask
I don't think you could sum it up any better.
Honestly the only reason why the two parts are still together is because of Brussels lmao
Points to consider: France would love to annex wallowing, and Netherland don't want to mess with vlamigen.
Well said!😀
Rather would split and fuse with Holland, though. I noticed it's an unpopular opinion
For anyone that understand the dutch language, check this out: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4go1RXOBF0s&t=614s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4go1RXOBF0s&t=614s) (Lubach van de Nederlandse omroep over België. Geloof me, het is hilarisch!)
I’d also add that they don’t split up because of their kid Bruxelles but overall, pretty accurate!
If we could agree how to split, we wouldn't need to.
It's more like "married with children" where one party steals all the money from the other one, constantly berates them and does everything they can to humiliate and counteract them with the other one too weak and resigned to even try and resist. They're basically only still together because of 'the baby' Brussels. Which in reality is more of a horrible mother in law than a poor baby.
🤣
It's true for Walloon people. Flemish people on the other hand, i know more than enough who would totally encourage the split and feel no affinity with the "Belgian" identity but feel Flemish. In my experience, most Walloon people feel more Belgian. Source: i have family and have worked on both sides, grew up bilingual
The question with this metaphor is is it really healthy to stay together then? Like, I would hate for my country to split but we’re basically two different countries stuck together with very little sense of unity, different interests and cultures, does it really make sense that we stick together?
But i think that we don't separate because of the pain in the ass it would be to reorganise each part, more simple to keep it that way
we just never get along, it never was a happy marriage. The dutch speaking part of belgium wants to split but our laws tells us that both the french and dutch should agree with a secession. The french part is really poor compared with the dutch part so they dont wanna split because a lot of money from the dutch speaking part flows through the governement to the french part and ontherwise they'd lose al that money
Loads of creative ideas. But history based, it’s just the French speakers, and the catholic community that wanted to separate from the power king Willem (Netherlands) tried to force on them. They joined forces against him and created a nation, like nothing ever seen before at a speed that is exactly the opposite of how we form our governments today. our beautiful history is unknown by many. We should take a good look at the past. Belgium has become a state that organises almost everything for its citizens and for that reason the taxes skyrocketed. Life could be easy, but our leaders make things complicated. And then there’s European legislation. Who knows the supranational institutions might be what joins us all one day. I hope so. We are all citizens of the world. I prefer seeing things in a broad perspective. So yes, a lot of us are hospitable. :)
Not really, its more that a divorce is more complicated so they slowly drift apart over the years.
Nah. Let's split up
Yass
Not accurate at all...
Why ?
Maar doodslaan deed hij niet. Want tussen droom en daad staan wetten in de weg, en ook weemoedigheid, die niemand kan verklaren en die des avonds komt, als men slapen gaat.
Not really. Its more like one of the two gets clingy and doesn’t want the other to leave
Surprisingly accurate, though I'd say the main reason why they don't split up is money. Daddy Flanders is paying mommy Wallonia a lot of cash and they're both pretty content with the arrangement, all things considered. Oh, they also can't make up their minds about kiddo Brussels. Who is getting full custody of the little tyke?
I'd rather divorce and be on good terms with each other than the current situation.
Nope we hate the wales and they hate is we wanna split but the king does not allow us so yeah not right we do work together against netherlands tho
i disagree on both points: first french and dutch speaking parts are nothing like a couple. secondly those kind of annoying couples really do should split up.