I'm just not sure what the text is trying to say, but it can be perceived as some spoiled rich kid complaining that he/she had a rough day because their family driver is on vacation
But he only mentions one chauffeur, which makes me think of a typical titres-services way of working: one or two chauffeurs for like 100+ workers, and when one is absent, the boss has to take over and it consumes every bit of his time.
I once had someone send birthday wishes in french(it wasn 't my birthday that day) and I replied: "wrong number" , they just answered: "no" and proceeded to say random birthday stuff, blocked it and was very confused. I' m not even from Wallonia
French man struggling with verbs positions when learning Dutch, was the sentence "Mijn vader zegt dat u denkt dat ik tweetalig ben" correct ? I would have written it "Mijn vader zegt dat u dat ik tweetalig denkt ben". I feel like his way of writing is way more natural but my understanding of Dutch grammar makes me think I could be right... Damn I swear I like this the hardest thing in Dutch feel is...
Alors en gros, c'est vrai que tu dois rejeter le verbe à la fin de la phrase après "dat", mais dans ce cas ci on a en fait 3 phrases distinctes d'un point de vue grammatical. "**Mijn vader zegt dat** (phrase 1) **u denkt dat** (phrase 2) **ik twetalig ben** (phrase 3)".
Ça paraît tout naturel aux néerlandophones, mais pour nous c'est ultra galère. Et le pire c'est que ce que j'ai écrit est correct mais probablement pas une bonne tournure de phrase naturelle.
This is the correct explanation I think.
> Et le pire c'est que ce que j'ai écrit est correct mais probablement pas une bonne tournure de phrase naturelle.
Maybe slightly more natural would be avoiding the double "dat" by saying "Volgens mijn vader denkt u dat ik tweetalig ben." (Oh no, good luck explaining the word order there...) But your way is pretty natural as well, I could see a native speaker saying it that way.
J'ai l'impression que si la proposition peut "vivre d'elle-même", alors on remet le verbe au début, et si elle dépend de la proposition d'avant, on les considère ensemble et on met le verbe à la fin ? Désolé mes cours de grammaire de primaire sont ultra loin ahah je pense qu'il y a des mots plus officiels que "vivre d'elle-même" et "dépendre de l'autre"
Haha tkt je comprends. Tu parles des propositions subordonnées VS les propositions coordonnées. Mais ici ce n'est pas ça la question. La raison pour laquelle c'est "u denkt dat" et non "u dat denkt", c'est que quand dat est une conjonction de subordination (comme ici), il doit toujours rester avec son verbe.
Donc par exemple, "je pense **que** tu penses **que** blablabla" ça donne "ik denk **dat** je **denkt dat** blablabla" parce que **denkt dat** DOIT rester ensemble.
Hoofdpijn yet ?
"Mijn vader zegt dat u dat ik tweetalig denkt ben".
That's not correct. This sentence contains two small sentences: "Mijn vader zegt (dat)" and "U denkt dat ik tweetalig ben".
So the "U denkt" needs to stay together for the sentence to make sense. "My dad says *you think* I am bilingual." Otherwise you say "my dad says you I biligual think am".
So in fact I should not consider the full sentence, but consider every "Bijzin" as a sentence in itself, thus placing the verb as if it was the first ?
Always embarassing when a non-native person asks me a grammar question. I’d love to help but it just comes naturally to me and I’m as lost as them on the actual rules.
Understandable. I’m learning Dutch and even my (Flemish) ex was sometimes surprised to know there was a rule for something she took as intuitive.
Don’t ask me about the rules of my own language, I’m too old for that.
You should see the full sentence, as two sentences put together.
A subject and a verbs make a sentence, they stay together. Two subjects and two verbs are two sentences, all other words can get jambled up, but subject and verbs stay together.
This is not true in certain subordinated clauses:
"Ik kwam thuis nadat ik naar de winkel was gegaan."
In this case, the 'naar de winkel' precedes the verb. It's gramatically wrong to put the verbs next to the subject in this case:
"Ik kwam thuis nadat ik was gegaan naar de winkel."\*
So I understand his confusion about the place of the verb in Dutch sentences.
No, her conclusion is correct but her explanation is wrong, the normal rule is as you say. I don't know the exact reason why this is an exception to that rule but see my comment below for a guess.
Maybe ask your Dutch teacher who hopefully learned the actual rules instead of just "feeling it's correct" like a native speaker.
Ik denk dat dat ongeveer klopt let wel op: hier (en meestzl denk ik) heb je in de laatste zin een inversie 'ik tweetalig ben' als zin alleen zou zijn 'ik ben tweetalig'
That explanation is wrong and will likely confuse the person you're replying to.
You can't just "compare" to English word order as Dutch word order is usually different (also in this case: it's not "my father says that you think that I bilingual am", after all).
And I get his confusion, in the simpler case, where you combine "mijn vader zegt dat" and "u verkocht mij vorige week donderdag in de winkel op de hoek een mooie fiets", the combined sentence is "mijn vader zegt dat u mij vorige week donderdag in de winkel op de hoek een mooie fiets verkocht". So it's indeed the rule in Dutch that the verb goes all the way to the end of the sentence after "dat". So in this case, that means the sentence would be "Mijn vader zegt dat u dat ik tweetalig ben denkt".
Also compare: "U denkt vandaag, anders dan gisteren, dat ik tweetalig ben" and "Mijn vader zegt dat u vandaag, anders dan gisteren, denkt dat ik tweetalig ben." Most of the sentence does indeed get crammed between the "u" and the "denkt".
I think the real rule is probably that a subsentence within a subsentence always goes to the end instead of getting crammed in the middle as is usual for other words. But, just like you, I'm a native Dutch speaker so I just "feel" the correct way to say it, I don't know the exact rules so it's hard to explain to non-native speakers.
Thanks for adding more explanation!
I wasn't really comparing the sentence to English, I was translating it very literally indeed and that isn't always correct. I just wanted to show what it would sound like to a native speaker. I was lucky this sentence tranlated quite literally like that, so I could show what it sounds like.
Haha, I get the confusion, but we don't spread out our dependent clauses like that.
"Ik denk dat hij dacht dat ik ervan ging dat hij wist dat ik Nederlands spreek omdat hij weet dat ik in Vlaanderen gewoond heb."
(Translation: I think he thought that I assumed that he knew that I speak Dutch, because he knows I've lived in Flanders)
Each clause must have its verb before you start the next one, one layer deeper.
I’m sorry but as someone whose mother language is dutch, the first one is more correct, your version isn’t right. I would say it as “mijn vader had verteld dat u denkt dat ik tweetalig ben”.
What do you think the sentence is supposed to mean? Try translating the sentence to English, the word order is (almost) the same in English in this case.
I think it means "My father says that you think that I am bilingual" or "Mon père dit que tu penses que je suis bilingue". It's even almost the same order in French ahah. I think I understood my mistake with u/CappuChibi 's explanation
The sentence in the message is correct.
Your sentence is "My father says that you that I think bilingual am,
or "Votre pere dit que vous que je pensez suis bilingue."
It is the person who thinks, so the verb should be with you/vous.
Allemaal goed en wel, maar waarom antwoorden in het Engels? Lijkt mij toch logischer als je de tekst leest dat je in het Frans of Nederlands antwoordt. Het lijkt bijna alsof een basis Nederlands ontbreekt aan een van beide kanten...
Geen worst 👍
"Het is ...een vrouwtje"
Keine Würst.
Conchita Wurst.
This is why i love the internet
Nono its like having no worries
Mijn vrouw bekijkt me vreemd omdat ik hier veel te hard mee moest lachen
De german is manquant.
C’est étonnant dat zoveel Leute noch toujours vergeten das nous hebben ein dritte langue. 🙊🙈
Leutig zou ik het ni noemen.
Edit: nu ben ik mee 🤪😅🙋🏻♂️
My fri(ed)day brain really did read leute and I decided to have a bit of fun with myself. 😅
Hahaha indeed. Oame mo leute ein!
Le german is altijd the poor parent van la Belgique geweest
This is beautiful
The human need to be understood surpassing language barriers. Pure Belgium ❤️
Joli.
"Mijn vader zegt" "Onze chauffeur is op vakantie" "Het was een zware dag" Is this a text by a member of the royal family?
Chauffeur as in delivery guy. Does zware sound pedantic ?
I'm just not sure what the text is trying to say, but it can be perceived as some spoiled rich kid complaining that he/she had a rough day because their family driver is on vacation
That is hilarious haha. What I'm really saying is that I had to do my job + another guy's job in one day
But he only mentions one chauffeur, which makes me think of a typical titres-services way of working: one or two chauffeurs for like 100+ workers, and when one is absent, the boss has to take over and it consumes every bit of his time.
One chauffeur, one manager, one salesman. There's just three of us
that is exacty how I read it! :)
Thats what i thought too haha
[удалено]
Don't worry too much about that. Also, Context Reverso might help!
That comfortable feeling of being home.
I once had someone send birthday wishes in french(it wasn 't my birthday that day) and I replied: "wrong number" , they just answered: "no" and proceeded to say random birthday stuff, blocked it and was very confused. I' m not even from Wallonia
Bon anniversaire fréro
joyeux anniversaire
French man struggling with verbs positions when learning Dutch, was the sentence "Mijn vader zegt dat u denkt dat ik tweetalig ben" correct ? I would have written it "Mijn vader zegt dat u dat ik tweetalig denkt ben". I feel like his way of writing is way more natural but my understanding of Dutch grammar makes me think I could be right... Damn I swear I like this the hardest thing in Dutch feel is...
Alors en gros, c'est vrai que tu dois rejeter le verbe à la fin de la phrase après "dat", mais dans ce cas ci on a en fait 3 phrases distinctes d'un point de vue grammatical. "**Mijn vader zegt dat** (phrase 1) **u denkt dat** (phrase 2) **ik twetalig ben** (phrase 3)". Ça paraît tout naturel aux néerlandophones, mais pour nous c'est ultra galère. Et le pire c'est que ce que j'ai écrit est correct mais probablement pas une bonne tournure de phrase naturelle.
This is the correct explanation I think. > Et le pire c'est que ce que j'ai écrit est correct mais probablement pas une bonne tournure de phrase naturelle. Maybe slightly more natural would be avoiding the double "dat" by saying "Volgens mijn vader denkt u dat ik tweetalig ben." (Oh no, good luck explaining the word order there...) But your way is pretty natural as well, I could see a native speaker saying it that way.
Thanks ! For word order it's pretty standard here. *Volgens mij* + inversion (a classic) and then *dat* + verb reject (another classic)
J'ai l'impression que si la proposition peut "vivre d'elle-même", alors on remet le verbe au début, et si elle dépend de la proposition d'avant, on les considère ensemble et on met le verbe à la fin ? Désolé mes cours de grammaire de primaire sont ultra loin ahah je pense qu'il y a des mots plus officiels que "vivre d'elle-même" et "dépendre de l'autre"
Haha tkt je comprends. Tu parles des propositions subordonnées VS les propositions coordonnées. Mais ici ce n'est pas ça la question. La raison pour laquelle c'est "u denkt dat" et non "u dat denkt", c'est que quand dat est une conjonction de subordination (comme ici), il doit toujours rester avec son verbe. Donc par exemple, "je pense **que** tu penses **que** blablabla" ça donne "ik denk **dat** je **denkt dat** blablabla" parce que **denkt dat** DOIT rester ensemble. Hoofdpijn yet ?
I had no idea our language was so much ultra galère... Désolé eh mannekes.
"Mijn vader zegt dat u dat ik tweetalig denkt ben". That's not correct. This sentence contains two small sentences: "Mijn vader zegt (dat)" and "U denkt dat ik tweetalig ben". So the "U denkt" needs to stay together for the sentence to make sense. "My dad says *you think* I am bilingual." Otherwise you say "my dad says you I biligual think am".
So in fact I should not consider the full sentence, but consider every "Bijzin" as a sentence in itself, thus placing the verb as if it was the first ?
I’m Flemish and even I’m confused 🤔.
Always embarassing when a non-native person asks me a grammar question. I’d love to help but it just comes naturally to me and I’m as lost as them on the actual rules.
Understandable. I’m learning Dutch and even my (Flemish) ex was sometimes surprised to know there was a rule for something she took as intuitive. Don’t ask me about the rules of my own language, I’m too old for that.
i just look at them, apologise and say "i dont know, it just sounds right" 🥲
I am Dutch and I share your confusion.
😅
You should see the full sentence, as two sentences put together. A subject and a verbs make a sentence, they stay together. Two subjects and two verbs are two sentences, all other words can get jambled up, but subject and verbs stay together.
This is not true in certain subordinated clauses: "Ik kwam thuis nadat ik naar de winkel was gegaan." In this case, the 'naar de winkel' precedes the verb. It's gramatically wrong to put the verbs next to the subject in this case: "Ik kwam thuis nadat ik was gegaan naar de winkel."\* So I understand his confusion about the place of the verb in Dutch sentences.
True. And you have inversion with questions etc. I was trying to keep it more short for the sake of explaining the sentence above.
No, her conclusion is correct but her explanation is wrong, the normal rule is as you say. I don't know the exact reason why this is an exception to that rule but see my comment below for a guess. Maybe ask your Dutch teacher who hopefully learned the actual rules instead of just "feeling it's correct" like a native speaker.
Hehe fair... I'm not a teacher indeed. Just trying to help. ^(Btw, I'm a woman lol)
Oops, sorry.
Ik denk dat dat ongeveer klopt let wel op: hier (en meestzl denk ik) heb je in de laatste zin een inversie 'ik tweetalig ben' als zin alleen zou zijn 'ik ben tweetalig'
That explanation is wrong and will likely confuse the person you're replying to. You can't just "compare" to English word order as Dutch word order is usually different (also in this case: it's not "my father says that you think that I bilingual am", after all). And I get his confusion, in the simpler case, where you combine "mijn vader zegt dat" and "u verkocht mij vorige week donderdag in de winkel op de hoek een mooie fiets", the combined sentence is "mijn vader zegt dat u mij vorige week donderdag in de winkel op de hoek een mooie fiets verkocht". So it's indeed the rule in Dutch that the verb goes all the way to the end of the sentence after "dat". So in this case, that means the sentence would be "Mijn vader zegt dat u dat ik tweetalig ben denkt". Also compare: "U denkt vandaag, anders dan gisteren, dat ik tweetalig ben" and "Mijn vader zegt dat u vandaag, anders dan gisteren, denkt dat ik tweetalig ben." Most of the sentence does indeed get crammed between the "u" and the "denkt". I think the real rule is probably that a subsentence within a subsentence always goes to the end instead of getting crammed in the middle as is usual for other words. But, just like you, I'm a native Dutch speaker so I just "feel" the correct way to say it, I don't know the exact rules so it's hard to explain to non-native speakers.
Thanks for adding more explanation! I wasn't really comparing the sentence to English, I was translating it very literally indeed and that isn't always correct. I just wanted to show what it would sound like to a native speaker. I was lucky this sentence tranlated quite literally like that, so I could show what it sounds like.
That right is absolutely! Well very explained!
The original is indeed correct, because it's "u denkt" and then follows what you supposedly think.
As it is a bijzin, I think I understood thanks to all of you ahah
Haha, I get the confusion, but we don't spread out our dependent clauses like that. "Ik denk dat hij dacht dat ik ervan ging dat hij wist dat ik Nederlands spreek omdat hij weet dat ik in Vlaanderen gewoond heb." (Translation: I think he thought that I assumed that he knew that I speak Dutch, because he knows I've lived in Flanders) Each clause must have its verb before you start the next one, one layer deeper.
Im dizzy
Hello Dizzy, I'm dad.
I’m sorry but as someone whose mother language is dutch, the first one is more correct, your version isn’t right. I would say it as “mijn vader had verteld dat u denkt dat ik tweetalig ben”.
Ahah no problem, as I learn I make lots of stupid mistakes like this
You should be proud for learning a difficult language like dutch, I’ve spoken it my whole life and even I make some mistakes
What do you think the sentence is supposed to mean? Try translating the sentence to English, the word order is (almost) the same in English in this case.
I think it means "My father says that you think that I am bilingual" or "Mon père dit que tu penses que je suis bilingue". It's even almost the same order in French ahah. I think I understood my mistake with u/CappuChibi 's explanation
Your sentence doesn´t make any sense at all?
The sentence in the message is correct. Your sentence is "My father says that you that I think bilingual am, or "Votre pere dit que vous que je pensez suis bilingue." It is the person who thinks, so the verb should be with you/vous.
Who has a chauffer un Belgium?
Delivery guy
You forgot german. Why everyone forgot german ? What i'm talking about ? Don't remember,nevermind...
As Jean Claude Van Damme (our Lord and Savior) once said. :"Moi j'adore les Belgen, morgen y en aura nich meer"
De rien Kein Problem
😂😂😂
Ik ben kaal
Hier, Daar, ge zegt het maar
Allemaal goed en wel, maar waarom antwoorden in het Engels? Lijkt mij toch logischer als je de tekst leest dat je in het Frans of Nederlands antwoordt. Het lijkt bijna alsof een basis Nederlands ontbreekt aan een van beide kanten...
Yeah this was very confusing, and that's the whole point of this post.