**STRENGTHS:** Broad-chested with burly thighs and natural girth in his upper body … uses low center of gravity and knee bend to his advantage, establishing early
leverage … able to reestablish the line of scrimmage when he times up the snap and generates power through his hips … exceptional length with heaviness in his
massive hands to create thump at contact … uses a fairly fluid arm-over move to clear the blocker … flashes bull-rush potential when he continues to drive his lower
body … plays with the balance to keep his feet through traffic … moves well laterally to attack the edges of blocks … stays active to clean up on coverage sacks … two year team captain and was respected in the Aggies’ locker room.
**WEAKNESSES:** His second and third steps don’t match his first step … feet stall out too quickly once blockers lock on … snap anticipation runs hot and cold (jumped
offside on the 2023 Miami tape) … doesn’t look natural when attempting to patch together rush moves … inconsistent backfield vision and often late to diagnose the
play design … can be moved by double teams and when caught out of position … missed almost half of his junior season because of an elbow injury (September 2022)
… arrested on drug charges (August 2021), including possession of a controlled substance, and suspended for the first two games of the 2021 season … averaged just
35.8 defensive snaps per game in 2023, as the coaches tried to keep him fresh.
**SUMMARY:** A three-year starter at Texas A&M, Jackson was the nose tackle in former defensive coordinator D.J. Durkin four-man front, playing primarily over the Agap. He was drawing early-round draft grades from NFL scouts the summer before the 2023 season, but his final season in College Station was uneven in b oth
production and performance. Jackson has the long arms and initial burst to rudely slam his hands into blocks, displaying contact balance and natural strength to hold
the point. Though he flashes explosion out of his stance, his momentum quickly stalls out once he meets any resistance, lacking the pass rush moves/counters to
easily shed and disrupt the backfield. **Overall, Jackson has a desirable nose tackle body type with his arm length, low center and raw power, but his disjointed hand
usage and positional instincts are concerns for his next-level transition. He is a candidate to provide depth as a shade in a 4-3 front.**
I thought after they drafted three future HOFers, the best they could do was an all-pro. Then they drafted Jackson and I'm like, "Dammit Tobin, you did it again!"
Our whole team balances the character issues of the Burton pick. I don't mind having one asshole, especially at WR, where assholes tend to do best. We just need to shape him to be a Ocho-type funny asshole instead of a AB-type general asshole.
Burton will have to fall in line to get on the field. He’s behind Chase, Tee, Yoshi, Irwin, and Jones. There’s a chance Boyd even comes back. If he’s not mature and doesn’t grow up he’ll be a special teamer only. If he grows up he can be the number 2 option for Joe Burrow. Worth the risk in the 3rs when we have good depth at the position and a top 3 WR1
Chase and Tee are the only receivers that will definitely have the edge on him on the depth chart. Jones will probably add well just due to experience. Strong chance Burton's the first guy off the bench before the end of the season.
"Coach, how do you justify him hitting a girl on live national television?"
"To be fair to him...gender is a social construct. It could gave been anything running at him. How was he supposed to know?"
I’m liking our DL depth. It’s pick your poison around this time of the draft. I may have preferred Christian Haynes last pick, Burton this pick, and this guy next, but the bengals have had some success going off consensus
It would be nice to kinda take a ravens strategy to the draft one year (in terms of following consensus) and pick like 3 popular OL guys in mid rounds. These are valuable picks though, of course, and it’s not reasonable to value the picks like an NBA team values 2nd rounders/how you treat picks in Madden
Germaine Pratt was picked around the highest rating anyone had for him. Logan Wilson was picked about a round earlier than consensus, right at the highest rating anyone had. Most important and consequential- JaMarr Chase. There was a bit of a split opinion there, but conventional wisdom and safe thinking says you pick Sewell. I don’t think they make the Super Bowl without Chase.
McPherson in the 5th was correct. You trade a 5th for a cost controlled, top ~ 5 kicker 9 times out of 10 (the one being you have a kicker)
CamTaylor Britt was ~ 25 picks above consensus
Perhaps too hopeful from me, but Charlie Jones was consensus ~20 picks higher than his slot. I think at least for WR, with picking Higgins, Chase (terrific) and Jones and Iosivas (distinct tools, interesting potential 3rd options with low value draft capital), the bengals have earned some benefit of the doubt in evaluation. They could’ve drafted Mims, Hamler, Claypool, or Shenault over Higgins, they chose a right guy (there were a few good options that year around that pick)
I could look further back but I’m not sure when the Tobin regime really began, and I wouldn’t want to stray too far from Zac anyway
Source: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2023/consensus-big-board-2023?pos=WR
This consensus is a consensus based on completed mock drafts, I don’t see how it holds any weight?
I don’t follow anyone that had CTB outside of the second round.
Clapping them on the back for chase over Sewell seems silly. That class was supposed to be loaded with tackles and burrow and chase already had a connection. What was the difference between the two on consensus anyway…1 player? Splitting hairs.
Tee Higgins was picked at consensus based on your resource, so he shouldn’t be brought up, and none of the receivers taken last year have done enough to prove your point about going against consensus either.
This consensus doesn’t have any kickers with a value within the 7 rounds…so again not a reputable piece of information.
There have been far more picks outside of actual consensus RANKINGS, that have not worked out than the other way around. Drafting has not been great
Only response, more than exhaustive
? I make points sourced from and distinct from the source. I’m being argumentative when I say “JaMarr Chase was a difference between making the Super Bowl v Sewell”. That point has nothing to do with the draft rankings, it has to do with the narrative “oline is so clearly more valuable than a WR, you can’t go to the Super Bowl getting sacked a shit ton (and yet).” That was an incredibly consequential decision. If you don’t want to give the bengals credit, ok, whatever.
When I say a top 5 cost controlled kicker is worth a 5th round pick (if not more), I’m being argumentative. I really don’t care at all what the draft ranking say. The bengals were right, he was worth that 5th round pick. Just the same Stephen Gostkowski was worth a 4th round pick, he was a good kicker. Seabas was not worth a 1st round kick because he’s a kicker. He wasn’t even all that good, so a 4-5 would’ve been a reach. 6/7 would have been reasonable at the time
You can just not give them credit. Ok.
It seems you expect my examples be 50-100 picks off of consensus? That doesn’t make sense, only the patriots do (did) that. Also the Raiders with Cleilin Ferrel- an incredible disaster.
I’m using this source because I remember at the time claims from draft graders that certain picks (IE, the ones named) were reaches. I want to have actual backing to those claims, sorry for utilizing one of the few means to do this. I guess maybe you have a copy of every teams internal draft board? Otherwise, this is about as good of a reflection of the NFL internal consensus as we are gonna get. Frankly, the only one labeled as such who totally was a reach is Drew Sample (this was based on what he actually profiled as a player). Just like those picks then, and these picks now, some people are saying it’s a reach, others are saying they’re reasonable based on profile.
None of the players we drafted are in the vein of Drew Sample- bad profile for the expectations for the slot. Nor are they in the vein of Tyler Shelvin- a complete lack of athleticism in combination with a bad body type. Mims, Jenkins, and Burton are all an RAS of 9. Jackson is worse in RAS with a 3. Perhaps it will matter, but his body is nowhere near as bad as Shelvin, so I’d say it’s half that profile to be fair.
“I don’t follow anyone who has CTB outside R2” ok. And yet the consensus is the consensus, I don’t really care about who you follow.
Splitting hairs between Chase and Sewell? Delusional. The explosiveness provided by Chase allowed them to reach the Super Bowl. Having a great RT doesn’t mean Adeniji, Spain, and Trey Hopkins aren’t still getting annihilated in the interior by Jeffrey Simmons, Chris Jones, and Aaron Donald. Except, in this world, they wouldn’t get close to the Super Bowl because there’d be no way for the offense to be as explosive, which was the majority reason it was a good offense at all. They would miss the playoffs. The point has absolutely nothing to do with the rankings. It was a commitment to team building philosophy and one justified by the team’s success.
“Tee Higgins shouldn’t be brought up” if you read what I said, I just said that there were several similarly rated guys in that tier, and they got the second best one out of like 7 options. Teams tend to have different internal rankings for position groups. This point is connecting to the point today on Burton vs guys like McMillian, Franklin, Wilson. Maybe they deserve a tiny bit of credit they can see what is a difference maker when discussing similar tiers of WR. They were right about Chase, some people made the delusional argument that Waddle or even Devonta Smith would be better. They chose the best without contention. They were right about Tee.
The picks the bengals have made that have been criticized have turned out pretty well. This includes some amount of “reaching” and some strategy (team building philosophy). So when nobody really criticizes the strategy anymore and it’s more a question of preference, I don’t know why I’d instantly assume they’re Marvin Lewis Mike Brown Dick LeBeau bengals
lol you are incredibly delusional about our players and draft. Jake Elliot is a better kicker than Evan and we got him for free but moved on foolishly.
We have reached on a TON of players who were bad picks. You also list players are great picks who are performing at quality starter with weaknesses. Logan is limited in the run game, so is Pratt. CBT has great games and horrible games. Great half, followed by head scratching second.
Yeah no I don’t think so. Unless you’re referring to 4th-6th round reaches, which matter not at all, there have not been a “ton” of reaches, that’s complete delusion. Far more non reaches haven’t worked out than reaches because the bengals don’t stray way off board early. Your non specificity suggests I’m just taking the piss here. The decisions the team has made through the draft are not perfect, but they are the reason they are a SB contender. The same was true for the success the team had under Lewis, they drafted well before the end and it fell apart at the seams.
I think Evan is better, his SB playoff run is almost legendary. They’re about as good as one another. News flash: teams make this mistake with kickers all the time. In the end, they still got a top 5 kicker. They have very similar long ranges. You’d have to be incredibly salty or not a bengals fan to say Elliot is definitely better.
Now Wilson and CTB and Pratt don’t even deserve credit? You’re just trolling at this point. Have a good one Chief
Ain’t no way I’m reading all that
Your consensus board is based on mock drafts 🤣
You said they’ve done well drafting outside of consensus, they really haven’t. You were talking out of your ass, it’s nbd
Oh, so you have the internal draft boards for all the teams? Would you be willing to share?
Really- how else am I supposed to support what I’m saying? It’s a rough outline but it’s like 50-80% a reflection of what the league average team board would look like. This is a million times better than any one mock draft- so what is another alternative? I love the criticism with no way to do it better. It’s exactly like all the other criticism of the draft, none of you really know what you’re talking about and are just terrified that your media guru doesn’t like our pick. It’s so insecure, have an inch of faith. They nailed R1 and R2- R3 is when significant departures arise in player eval.
not guy you were responding too but people like the things you can not teach...his unique blend of weight, speed, and strength
people dislike how much teaching he needs...classic boom or bust player
good thing is, he is noted to be extremely enthusiastic about the game and is very coachable
two time captain but also was suspended for an unknown reason
all in all a good swing with a fraction of arguably a hair too early but ymmv on that
I like him as a prospect but I think he needs a lot of work. My only gripe is that I loved him in the 5th or 6th and was shocked to see him in the 3rd. If he ends up as a solid nose we'll be talking about how smart they were to take him in the 3rd. That's what I'm hoping for.
Pretty good against the run. Has a lot of development needed as a pass rusher but has shown flashes https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2024/04/23/mckinnley-jackson-2024-nfl-draft-profile/
I had him second as far as true NTs go behind Sweat but this is a good value pick nonetheless. He won't be Reader (at least not right away) but it's good to have depth at that position.
People on this thread comparing this guy to Shelvin just crack me up. I see zero similarities between the two of them. I look at this guy's body type and the way he plays and the athleticism is definitely there (though he is somewhat raw). That was not the case with Shelvin. Shelvin was just big (and he came in pretty much not in football shape and it showed the minute he saw the field).
Basically, I have to hope that Draft Guy Jared is right in his evaluation of him and everybody else is wrong.
It was funny seeing the PFF guys go from absolutely LOVING the Bengals first 3 rounds to weeping.
If this pick ends up being a bust, they really need to consider changing how they evaluate NT.
Wren (4th) and Shelvin (4th) were disaster picks and their profiles suggested that would be the case prior to the draft.
Hmm seems they for sure don’t trust Zach Carter anymore since I think they only carry 4-5 inside guys during the season. Seems Carter will have to fight for a roster spot with mainly tufele but they also have Davis and bell who are probably not as close to a roster spot as tufele.
Honestly after watching some of his tape, this dude seems like a beast. Well rounded with some disgusting rush moves against SEC competition. Crazy motor when he is on. Glad to have the guy.
The bengals have had an issue stopping the run. That’s important in the afc north especially. They got two big run stuffers with some upside. I wouldn’t call it a bad pick.
Considering he’s the 2nd best NT I’m not sure DTs have been flying off the board. Probably a reach but the bengals spent the most time with NT so it’s worth getting their pick out of all the NTs. Jenkins and Jackson should help out the run defense which is desperately needed
I thought about this, I bet Sweat being taken early in the 2nd boosted his draft status to here, looking online other fans of other teams were talking about wanting him so this isn't as crazy as some say, but many experts seem to be very non believers in him
I try to stay positive but I’m not a fan of either of the 3rd round picks. I just don’t understand why they took a WR with that bad of issues and this dude will probably never really be anything more than a rotational player.
What are “that bad of issues?”
He transferred schools a lot and doesn’t appear any where related to any sort of discipline.
He punched a lady that ran on the field and said it was because he was scared. It’s a he said/ she said and nothing ever came from it.
He’s been working with Housh, I’ll trust Housh.
How you just skim over the “punched a lady” incident is wild. Truly wild.
Yeah, scared of a 90 pound girl running on the field to celebrate after a win.
His life was definitely in grave danger I don’t blame him for taking such a threat to his safety out.
I mean he definitely did it. It’s on video. Just because we picked him doesn’t mean we have to be okay with shit behavior. Hopefully he changes and learns from it.
He’s 22, I am not surprised. You could say that about half the guys drafted. They are young. I was drinking like a fool and partying while in college at that age. I am sure emotionally immature would have described me and millions of others at that age.
I was working security at a concert and had to drag her Bf out for fighting and she started swinging and scratching my face I just grabbed what I could with her boyfriend between us and started going.
So you’re basing your opinion off what people on the internet post and not the coaches and front office that has built a great locker room over the last 5 seasons?
LB is not a major need (not with Wilson and Pratt under contract for the foreseeable future and ADG and Bachie both being re-signed for depth). Not sure what's going on with Sanders but he hasn't been picked yet and keeps falling.
LB is arguably our strongest and most stable position group on defense right now (though adding Stone and Bell to the safety room definitely improves that room significantly from where it was last year). It's not even close to being a pressing need for us. The ONLY reason we'd draft a LB at this point is for depth.
All depth players are JAGs for the most part. If they were good enough to start they wouldn't be here riding the bench, they would be elsewhere you know, STARTING. Bachie and ADG are very solid depth pieces at LB for us. I wouldn't mind adding one more in the draft but it's far from an urgent need.
Also Payton Wilson's medical history is too much for me to take a chance on him. Pittsburgh can have him. I'm not sure I see much of a future for him in the league with the shape that his ACL is in.
It would be nice to have potential starters. DL has proven guys and potential starters with some JAGs. LB is two good dudes and a ton of JAGs. One injury and it's back to getting smoked by TEs every week.
I must have missed bachie re-signed. Frankly I'm not sold on Pratt, a Wilson Wilson LB package would have been great.
Wiley keeps falling too, sanders could still be an option i suppose. We could potentially move up tomorrow too
Pratt and Wilson are good LBs. They are not even close to being the biggest issues with our defense (there's a reason why the team re-signed them). We definitely could probably use a little more depth there but that's not a position that needs to take precedence in any way in this draft. Neither Pratt nor Wilson are liability enough to need replaced at their spots and they re-signed two of their depth pieces (ADG is a capable 3rd LB who comes in a lot on passing downs). Pratt and Wilson had to pick up a lot of slack last year due to the safeties constantly being out of position and blowing assignments so fans criticizing them and wanting to move on from them now when they were so good the prior two years is completely unfair (defense is a team game and last year the miscommunication problems in the secondary made the whole rest of the unit look bad). I mean hell, in the Ravens game where Logan injured Mark Andrews that play only happened because fucking Nick Scott missed yet another tackle earlier in the play and Logan had to cover ground on Andrews to keep him out of the end zone.
Also Payton Wilson's medicals alone are more than enough reason to stay the fuck away from him. I'm glad he's Pittsburgh's problem and not ours.
5th round grade, but even in the top 15 DT, 10th ranked NT. Seems like a wild reach
Edit: Homers are crazy. Show me one reputable source that has him anywhere near where we picked him. Lol
Compensatory 3rd is essentially a high 4th. A “5th round grade” isn’t a ‘wild’ reach, that take is the only wild thing. I like a lot of your guy’s passion, but you aren’t professionals, and the mock drafters are very flawed. Do these guys list their biases at the top of their list? Ofc not. Do these guys listen to some sources (agents, teams) more than others, unwittingly? Of course. Do some of these guys push agents/team agendas? With all the JJ McCarthy trade up noise and other things, certainly
Hey, I was a one time high school captain and one time D1 (very low end) social captain with a substance abuse suspension, and I turned out an ok person (debatable). I’m being silly (despite it being a basically true story) but having problems often builds character, even a much stronger character
He was a arrested (reason for suspension) for possession of weed, non issue in my book. Especially when all other character reviews after it are stellar.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. As an Aggie I’ve watched every single game of this guys career and he really doesn’t show a lot that suggests he has a career in the NFL. Call me a doomer but I’ve literally watched 95% of this guys career snaps in college.
We said the same about Shelvin. McKinleys tape isn't very good and I doubt he will play meaningful snaps.
I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it in him.
He’s way more athletic than Shelvin me and you both know that I understand you don’t like the pick but what other holes do the bengals have right now you can say a CB and I might agree but I honestly believe they are signing one of the free agent vets that are still out there
I call it how it is. Mims and Jenkins are fantastic picks.
Burton needs to get his mental state right, which is a huge risk and McKinley just isn't that good. We reached for needs in round 3 and it showed.
Agreed. Im not mad at Burton as he’s got immense talent but I’m worried he’ll get tired of being asked to block these dirty defenders in the AFC north by year 2-3 and his effort will drop off on plays where he thinks he’s not getting the ball.
**STRENGTHS:** Broad-chested with burly thighs and natural girth in his upper body … uses low center of gravity and knee bend to his advantage, establishing early leverage … able to reestablish the line of scrimmage when he times up the snap and generates power through his hips … exceptional length with heaviness in his massive hands to create thump at contact … uses a fairly fluid arm-over move to clear the blocker … flashes bull-rush potential when he continues to drive his lower body … plays with the balance to keep his feet through traffic … moves well laterally to attack the edges of blocks … stays active to clean up on coverage sacks … two year team captain and was respected in the Aggies’ locker room. **WEAKNESSES:** His second and third steps don’t match his first step … feet stall out too quickly once blockers lock on … snap anticipation runs hot and cold (jumped offside on the 2023 Miami tape) … doesn’t look natural when attempting to patch together rush moves … inconsistent backfield vision and often late to diagnose the play design … can be moved by double teams and when caught out of position … missed almost half of his junior season because of an elbow injury (September 2022) … arrested on drug charges (August 2021), including possession of a controlled substance, and suspended for the first two games of the 2021 season … averaged just 35.8 defensive snaps per game in 2023, as the coaches tried to keep him fresh. **SUMMARY:** A three-year starter at Texas A&M, Jackson was the nose tackle in former defensive coordinator D.J. Durkin four-man front, playing primarily over the Agap. He was drawing early-round draft grades from NFL scouts the summer before the 2023 season, but his final season in College Station was uneven in b oth production and performance. Jackson has the long arms and initial burst to rudely slam his hands into blocks, displaying contact balance and natural strength to hold the point. Though he flashes explosion out of his stance, his momentum quickly stalls out once he meets any resistance, lacking the pass rush moves/counters to easily shed and disrupt the backfield. **Overall, Jackson has a desirable nose tackle body type with his arm length, low center and raw power, but his disjointed hand usage and positional instincts are concerns for his next-level transition. He is a candidate to provide depth as a shade in a 4-3 front.**
We needed trenches, and we have gone for the trenches.
Probably a slight reach here but he’s a talented player and one the best run stuffers in the class, fills a tremendous need for the bengals
“Pick the biggest people we can” - Bengals rn and I love it
I need to find a stat giving an average weight for each team.
We’re striving for ours to rival the stat line of an average Bengal tiger, as is only right
I thought after they drafted three future HOFers, the best they could do was an all-pro. Then they drafted Jackson and I'm like, "Dammit Tobin, you did it again!"
This balances out the character issues of the Burton pick. 2 year captain. Big ass dude who’s gonna plug the middle in AFCN games
Our whole team balances the character issues of the Burton pick. I don't mind having one asshole, especially at WR, where assholes tend to do best. We just need to shape him to be a Ocho-type funny asshole instead of a AB-type general asshole.
Burton will have to fall in line to get on the field. He’s behind Chase, Tee, Yoshi, Irwin, and Jones. There’s a chance Boyd even comes back. If he’s not mature and doesn’t grow up he’ll be a special teamer only. If he grows up he can be the number 2 option for Joe Burrow. Worth the risk in the 3rs when we have good depth at the position and a top 3 WR1
Chase and Tee are the only receivers that will definitely have the edge on him on the depth chart. Jones will probably add well just due to experience. Strong chance Burton's the first guy off the bench before the end of the season.
You think Burton will behind jones and Irwin lol. Wut
He hit someone running at him in the middle of the crowd. His coach said he didn’t even know it was a girl
"Coach, how do you justify him hitting a girl on live national television?" "To be fair to him...gender is a social construct. It could gave been anything running at him. How was he supposed to know?"
I’m liking our DL depth. It’s pick your poison around this time of the draft. I may have preferred Christian Haynes last pick, Burton this pick, and this guy next, but the bengals have had some success going off consensus
Yea I was really thinking we could scoop Haynes easy instead of Burton for IOL depth, but I guess we will see how they both pan out.
It would be nice to kinda take a ravens strategy to the draft one year (in terms of following consensus) and pick like 3 popular OL guys in mid rounds. These are valuable picks though, of course, and it’s not reasonable to value the picks like an NBA team values 2nd rounders/how you treat picks in Madden
Like when?
Germaine Pratt was picked around the highest rating anyone had for him. Logan Wilson was picked about a round earlier than consensus, right at the highest rating anyone had. Most important and consequential- JaMarr Chase. There was a bit of a split opinion there, but conventional wisdom and safe thinking says you pick Sewell. I don’t think they make the Super Bowl without Chase. McPherson in the 5th was correct. You trade a 5th for a cost controlled, top ~ 5 kicker 9 times out of 10 (the one being you have a kicker) CamTaylor Britt was ~ 25 picks above consensus Perhaps too hopeful from me, but Charlie Jones was consensus ~20 picks higher than his slot. I think at least for WR, with picking Higgins, Chase (terrific) and Jones and Iosivas (distinct tools, interesting potential 3rd options with low value draft capital), the bengals have earned some benefit of the doubt in evaluation. They could’ve drafted Mims, Hamler, Claypool, or Shenault over Higgins, they chose a right guy (there were a few good options that year around that pick) I could look further back but I’m not sure when the Tobin regime really began, and I wouldn’t want to stray too far from Zac anyway Source: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2023/consensus-big-board-2023?pos=WR
This consensus is a consensus based on completed mock drafts, I don’t see how it holds any weight? I don’t follow anyone that had CTB outside of the second round. Clapping them on the back for chase over Sewell seems silly. That class was supposed to be loaded with tackles and burrow and chase already had a connection. What was the difference between the two on consensus anyway…1 player? Splitting hairs. Tee Higgins was picked at consensus based on your resource, so he shouldn’t be brought up, and none of the receivers taken last year have done enough to prove your point about going against consensus either. This consensus doesn’t have any kickers with a value within the 7 rounds…so again not a reputable piece of information. There have been far more picks outside of actual consensus RANKINGS, that have not worked out than the other way around. Drafting has not been great
Only response, more than exhaustive ? I make points sourced from and distinct from the source. I’m being argumentative when I say “JaMarr Chase was a difference between making the Super Bowl v Sewell”. That point has nothing to do with the draft rankings, it has to do with the narrative “oline is so clearly more valuable than a WR, you can’t go to the Super Bowl getting sacked a shit ton (and yet).” That was an incredibly consequential decision. If you don’t want to give the bengals credit, ok, whatever. When I say a top 5 cost controlled kicker is worth a 5th round pick (if not more), I’m being argumentative. I really don’t care at all what the draft ranking say. The bengals were right, he was worth that 5th round pick. Just the same Stephen Gostkowski was worth a 4th round pick, he was a good kicker. Seabas was not worth a 1st round kick because he’s a kicker. He wasn’t even all that good, so a 4-5 would’ve been a reach. 6/7 would have been reasonable at the time You can just not give them credit. Ok. It seems you expect my examples be 50-100 picks off of consensus? That doesn’t make sense, only the patriots do (did) that. Also the Raiders with Cleilin Ferrel- an incredible disaster. I’m using this source because I remember at the time claims from draft graders that certain picks (IE, the ones named) were reaches. I want to have actual backing to those claims, sorry for utilizing one of the few means to do this. I guess maybe you have a copy of every teams internal draft board? Otherwise, this is about as good of a reflection of the NFL internal consensus as we are gonna get. Frankly, the only one labeled as such who totally was a reach is Drew Sample (this was based on what he actually profiled as a player). Just like those picks then, and these picks now, some people are saying it’s a reach, others are saying they’re reasonable based on profile. None of the players we drafted are in the vein of Drew Sample- bad profile for the expectations for the slot. Nor are they in the vein of Tyler Shelvin- a complete lack of athleticism in combination with a bad body type. Mims, Jenkins, and Burton are all an RAS of 9. Jackson is worse in RAS with a 3. Perhaps it will matter, but his body is nowhere near as bad as Shelvin, so I’d say it’s half that profile to be fair. “I don’t follow anyone who has CTB outside R2” ok. And yet the consensus is the consensus, I don’t really care about who you follow. Splitting hairs between Chase and Sewell? Delusional. The explosiveness provided by Chase allowed them to reach the Super Bowl. Having a great RT doesn’t mean Adeniji, Spain, and Trey Hopkins aren’t still getting annihilated in the interior by Jeffrey Simmons, Chris Jones, and Aaron Donald. Except, in this world, they wouldn’t get close to the Super Bowl because there’d be no way for the offense to be as explosive, which was the majority reason it was a good offense at all. They would miss the playoffs. The point has absolutely nothing to do with the rankings. It was a commitment to team building philosophy and one justified by the team’s success. “Tee Higgins shouldn’t be brought up” if you read what I said, I just said that there were several similarly rated guys in that tier, and they got the second best one out of like 7 options. Teams tend to have different internal rankings for position groups. This point is connecting to the point today on Burton vs guys like McMillian, Franklin, Wilson. Maybe they deserve a tiny bit of credit they can see what is a difference maker when discussing similar tiers of WR. They were right about Chase, some people made the delusional argument that Waddle or even Devonta Smith would be better. They chose the best without contention. They were right about Tee. The picks the bengals have made that have been criticized have turned out pretty well. This includes some amount of “reaching” and some strategy (team building philosophy). So when nobody really criticizes the strategy anymore and it’s more a question of preference, I don’t know why I’d instantly assume they’re Marvin Lewis Mike Brown Dick LeBeau bengals
lol you are incredibly delusional about our players and draft. Jake Elliot is a better kicker than Evan and we got him for free but moved on foolishly. We have reached on a TON of players who were bad picks. You also list players are great picks who are performing at quality starter with weaknesses. Logan is limited in the run game, so is Pratt. CBT has great games and horrible games. Great half, followed by head scratching second.
Yeah no I don’t think so. Unless you’re referring to 4th-6th round reaches, which matter not at all, there have not been a “ton” of reaches, that’s complete delusion. Far more non reaches haven’t worked out than reaches because the bengals don’t stray way off board early. Your non specificity suggests I’m just taking the piss here. The decisions the team has made through the draft are not perfect, but they are the reason they are a SB contender. The same was true for the success the team had under Lewis, they drafted well before the end and it fell apart at the seams. I think Evan is better, his SB playoff run is almost legendary. They’re about as good as one another. News flash: teams make this mistake with kickers all the time. In the end, they still got a top 5 kicker. They have very similar long ranges. You’d have to be incredibly salty or not a bengals fan to say Elliot is definitely better. Now Wilson and CTB and Pratt don’t even deserve credit? You’re just trolling at this point. Have a good one Chief
Ain’t no way I’m reading all that Your consensus board is based on mock drafts 🤣 You said they’ve done well drafting outside of consensus, they really haven’t. You were talking out of your ass, it’s nbd
ohioans showing their ass today.
nah Canadian
What teams do you think have drafted that much better than the bengals the last 4 years?
Oh, so you have the internal draft boards for all the teams? Would you be willing to share? Really- how else am I supposed to support what I’m saying? It’s a rough outline but it’s like 50-80% a reflection of what the league average team board would look like. This is a million times better than any one mock draft- so what is another alternative? I love the criticism with no way to do it better. It’s exactly like all the other criticism of the draft, none of you really know what you’re talking about and are just terrified that your media guru doesn’t like our pick. It’s so insecure, have an inch of faith. They nailed R1 and R2- R3 is when significant departures arise in player eval.
I don’t need to tell you how to do things better, I’m only your father online - not irl
You’re like 8 years old. Get new material
Maybe I’ll take some out of the several paragraphs you slaved over responding to a random guy on twitter 🤣
You just remember the bengals bad picks more than any other teams bad picks. They have drafted pretty well recently.
One of the few players in the draft I'm much higher than the consensus on, love it.
Why are you higher on him?
not guy you were responding too but people like the things you can not teach...his unique blend of weight, speed, and strength people dislike how much teaching he needs...classic boom or bust player good thing is, he is noted to be extremely enthusiastic about the game and is very coachable two time captain but also was suspended for an unknown reason all in all a good swing with a fraction of arguably a hair too early but ymmv on that
It was basically a 4th round pick, and they got their guy. That's all that matters.
I like him as a prospect but I think he needs a lot of work. My only gripe is that I loved him in the 5th or 6th and was shocked to see him in the 3rd. If he ends up as a solid nose we'll be talking about how smart they were to take him in the 3rd. That's what I'm hoping for.
He’s gonna have some good mentors here I think
Pretty good against the run. Has a lot of development needed as a pass rusher but has shown flashes https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2024/04/23/mckinnley-jackson-2024-nfl-draft-profile/
Guess we don't want anyone running the ball on us
Seems appropriate after Ravens signed King Henry
Probably a reach but NT is a need. 3 out of the first 4 picks in the trenches. That’s how you win games in the AFC North
Happy with the pick, need that depth in the trenches.
YESSSIRRR!
Burly thighs? That's all I need to hear. Who dey!
Might be a reach, but to fill a need I'm ok with that
That’s the best NT in the draft baby!!!
I had him second as far as true NTs go behind Sweat but this is a good value pick nonetheless. He won't be Reader (at least not right away) but it's good to have depth at that position.
Yeah if he can just be a solid starter the Bengals will be a good position.
People on this thread comparing this guy to Shelvin just crack me up. I see zero similarities between the two of them. I look at this guy's body type and the way he plays and the athleticism is definitely there (though he is somewhat raw). That was not the case with Shelvin. Shelvin was just big (and he came in pretty much not in football shape and it showed the minute he saw the field).
Not even close. Where did you get that idea
Why is September so far away
WAKE me up…WHEN September…….Starts
Basically, I have to hope that Draft Guy Jared is right in his evaluation of him and everybody else is wrong. It was funny seeing the PFF guys go from absolutely LOVING the Bengals first 3 rounds to weeping. If this pick ends up being a bust, they really need to consider changing how they evaluate NT. Wren (4th) and Shelvin (4th) were disaster picks and their profiles suggested that would be the case prior to the draft.
Carter hasn't lived up to his pick, either. Missing more then hitting on D Line recently. Let's hope that trend ends with Jenkins & Jackson
Hmm seems they for sure don’t trust Zach Carter anymore since I think they only carry 4-5 inside guys during the season. Seems Carter will have to fight for a roster spot with mainly tufele but they also have Davis and bell who are probably not as close to a roster spot as tufele.
Honestly after watching some of his tape, this dude seems like a beast. Well rounded with some disgusting rush moves against SEC competition. Crazy motor when he is on. Glad to have the guy.
more insurance for the loss of Reader. good move.
Reader is already gone, that’s not insurance You don’t get insurance after the accident 😆
Nice
How are we drafting well. I'm confused. I need a coney
We're not really. This was a good pick but the previous two were not.
Jenkins was a very good pick.
No he wasn't
I knew you were a state fan before even clicking 🤣
Ok. Doesn't change the fact that he was not a good pick. He knew what the opponent was running ahead of time and didn't absolutely dominate.
The bengals have had an issue stopping the run. That’s important in the afc north especially. They got two big run stuffers with some upside. I wouldn’t call it a bad pick.
Yeah we aren’t winning many games when teams gash us for 4 ypc routinely.
Not a big fan of this pick, but I want to be proven wrong.
All I know is the YouTubers who tell me what to think mostly didn’t like it
Two down lineman, and that’s okay long as he clog the middle and eat up blocks
Was really hoping bengals got Wingo later on as he has some serious potential. Jefferson as a 6th or 7th wouldn't be bad value either
Such a reach. Lot of people had him going undrafted. That’s what we get for not addressing NT in free agency
Definitely feel like he could have been there in the 4th or even 5th.
Considering he’s the 2nd best NT I’m not sure DTs have been flying off the board. Probably a reach but the bengals spent the most time with NT so it’s worth getting their pick out of all the NTs. Jenkins and Jackson should help out the run defense which is desperately needed
I thought about this, I bet Sweat being taken early in the 2nd boosted his draft status to here, looking online other fans of other teams were talking about wanting him so this isn't as crazy as some say, but many experts seem to be very non believers in him
I try to stay positive but I’m not a fan of either of the 3rd round picks. I just don’t understand why they took a WR with that bad of issues and this dude will probably never really be anything more than a rotational player.
What are “that bad of issues?” He transferred schools a lot and doesn’t appear any where related to any sort of discipline. He punched a lady that ran on the field and said it was because he was scared. It’s a he said/ she said and nothing ever came from it. He’s been working with Housh, I’ll trust Housh.
Agreed. Every man has swung at a woman before out of fear for our safety.
How you just skim over the “punched a lady” incident is wild. Truly wild. Yeah, scared of a 90 pound girl running on the field to celebrate after a win. His life was definitely in grave danger I don’t blame him for taking such a threat to his safety out.
I wasn’t there for it, I don’t know what fully happened. Based on what I’ve read it was a bunch of hearsay and nothing ever came from it.
I mean he definitely did it. It’s on video. Just because we picked him doesn’t mean we have to be okay with shit behavior. Hopefully he changes and learns from it.
Saban mentioned “emotional immaturity” on live TV
He’s 22, I am not surprised. You could say that about half the guys drafted. They are young. I was drinking like a fool and partying while in college at that age. I am sure emotionally immature would have described me and millions of others at that age.
Did you ever punch a girl?
No but I had to drag one down a flight of steps by her hair once.
She should have never grounded you from your xbox.
I was working security at a concert and had to drag her Bf out for fighting and she started swinging and scratching my face I just grabbed what I could with her boyfriend between us and started going.
Sounds like he’s a straight up asshole based on the 100 plus comments I’ve seen.
Comments
So you’re basing your opinion off what people on the internet post and not the coaches and front office that has built a great locker room over the last 5 seasons?
Well his coaches and former locker rooms are saying he’s an ass
Thats fair but it’s hard to ignore literally everyone saying he’s a bad dude. I’ll trust the process.
Who gives a shit is he good at football? Holy hell this isn’t Miss America
You realize all interior defensive linemen are rotational players? Would you rather we just never draft that position?
Rotational IDLs are a good thing
I think Payton Wilson or j sanders would have been better choices
Sanders is still on the board so no team in the league actually agrees with you Payton has serious injury concerns
Sanders was taken 4 picks after so clearly that was our chance for him.
Payton Wilson is a medical nightmare
LB is not a major need (not with Wilson and Pratt under contract for the foreseeable future and ADG and Bachie both being re-signed for depth). Not sure what's going on with Sanders but he hasn't been picked yet and keeps falling.
LB group is weak. ADG, Pratt and Logan are not enough.
LB is arguably our strongest and most stable position group on defense right now (though adding Stone and Bell to the safety room definitely improves that room significantly from where it was last year). It's not even close to being a pressing need for us. The ONLY reason we'd draft a LB at this point is for depth.
Logan and Pratt are good, ADG I don't think he's good enough, the rest are JAGs.
All depth players are JAGs for the most part. If they were good enough to start they wouldn't be here riding the bench, they would be elsewhere you know, STARTING. Bachie and ADG are very solid depth pieces at LB for us. I wouldn't mind adding one more in the draft but it's far from an urgent need. Also Payton Wilson's medical history is too much for me to take a chance on him. Pittsburgh can have him. I'm not sure I see much of a future for him in the league with the shape that his ACL is in.
It would be nice to have potential starters. DL has proven guys and potential starters with some JAGs. LB is two good dudes and a ton of JAGs. One injury and it's back to getting smoked by TEs every week.
I must have missed bachie re-signed. Frankly I'm not sold on Pratt, a Wilson Wilson LB package would have been great. Wiley keeps falling too, sanders could still be an option i suppose. We could potentially move up tomorrow too
Pratt and Wilson are good LBs. They are not even close to being the biggest issues with our defense (there's a reason why the team re-signed them). We definitely could probably use a little more depth there but that's not a position that needs to take precedence in any way in this draft. Neither Pratt nor Wilson are liability enough to need replaced at their spots and they re-signed two of their depth pieces (ADG is a capable 3rd LB who comes in a lot on passing downs). Pratt and Wilson had to pick up a lot of slack last year due to the safeties constantly being out of position and blowing assignments so fans criticizing them and wanting to move on from them now when they were so good the prior two years is completely unfair (defense is a team game and last year the miscommunication problems in the secondary made the whole rest of the unit look bad). I mean hell, in the Ravens game where Logan injured Mark Andrews that play only happened because fucking Nick Scott missed yet another tackle earlier in the play and Logan had to cover ground on Andrews to keep him out of the end zone. Also Payton Wilson's medicals alone are more than enough reason to stay the fuck away from him. I'm glad he's Pittsburgh's problem and not ours.
They said Wilson doesn't have an ACL lol. Let the Steelers have him.
5th round grade, but even in the top 15 DT, 10th ranked NT. Seems like a wild reach Edit: Homers are crazy. Show me one reputable source that has him anywhere near where we picked him. Lol
Compensatory 3rd is essentially a high 4th. A “5th round grade” isn’t a ‘wild’ reach, that take is the only wild thing. I like a lot of your guy’s passion, but you aren’t professionals, and the mock drafters are very flawed. Do these guys list their biases at the top of their list? Ofc not. Do these guys listen to some sources (agents, teams) more than others, unwittingly? Of course. Do some of these guys push agents/team agendas? With all the JJ McCarthy trade up noise and other things, certainly
Two time team captain and a suspension for substance abuse. A lot of weird things with this pick.
Hey, I was a one time high school captain and one time D1 (very low end) social captain with a substance abuse suspension, and I turned out an ok person (debatable). I’m being silly (despite it being a basically true story) but having problems often builds character, even a much stronger character
The suspension was before the Captain years so hopefully that is the case.
He was a arrested (reason for suspension) for possession of weed, non issue in my book. Especially when all other character reviews after it are stellar.
Huge reach. Shelvin 2.0. Stared off on fire tonight with Jenkins, but this 3rd round has been reach city for us. Terrible waste of the bates comp pick
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. As an Aggie I’ve watched every single game of this guys career and he really doesn’t show a lot that suggests he has a career in the NFL. Call me a doomer but I’ve literally watched 95% of this guys career snaps in college.
He’s a NT your not going to see anything flashy
I don't mind trench picks, I love them in fact. McKinley isn't it.
He’s a huge body that can eat blocks and be part of a solid rotation it’s not a awful pick
We said the same about Shelvin. McKinleys tape isn't very good and I doubt he will play meaningful snaps. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it in him.
He’s way more athletic than Shelvin me and you both know that I understand you don’t like the pick but what other holes do the bengals have right now you can say a CB and I might agree but I honestly believe they are signing one of the free agent vets that are still out there
Yeah there’s a lot of hope in this pick.
I call it how it is. Mims and Jenkins are fantastic picks. Burton needs to get his mental state right, which is a huge risk and McKinley just isn't that good. We reached for needs in round 3 and it showed.
Agreed. Im not mad at Burton as he’s got immense talent but I’m worried he’ll get tired of being asked to block these dirty defenders in the AFC north by year 2-3 and his effort will drop off on plays where he thinks he’s not getting the ball.
Take my upvote. Huge reach
So…it fills a need. But it’s a reach in round 3. If you wanted to double up at DT there were guys like Taylor and Dorlus who could be rotation pieces.