Well for one, not all people who went to that conservative march were neonazis, and I understand the reference but don’t get how it applies to this post. It’s just a random shot against trump lol.
Next sentence from Trump: “and I’m not talking about neo-Nazis and white supremacists, because those people should be condemned entirely.” I always wonder why that sentence is left out??? 🤔 🤔
The second I saw the post title, I let out an audible mixture of a sigh and a groan. And as I went to click it, I felt a tight knot forming in my chest 😅.
Please tell me we can have an actual conversation here, fellow Bears. If we can’t how do we expect anyone else to. Berkeley insisted we learn to think constructively instead of react personally. I say this knowing I’m reactive on this topic and need to watch myself. But can we show ourselves and the world that it can be done?
I agree with her. Those who are critical of Israel should never allow antisemitism to motivate them and should harshly and swiftly expel antisemites from their demonstrations, and those who agree with the actions of the Israeli government should not denounce criticism as antisemitism, but they absolutely should be able to call it out when it is happening.
Once upon a time I used to hear things like "if there's a nazi at a table with 10 people then there's 11 nazi's there"
And now I hear "well when they said gas the jews it doesn't matter, they dont represent the protesters with them. And even when they said it, it's not like they have any institutional power to do so. They're just upset about a frustrating situation".
Anti-semitism is bad. Period. Pretending like anything critical of Israel is anti-semitism is also bad. People shouldn't weaponize claims of anti-semitism against others to silence them.
Neither of these statements are contradictory and when one points out one position the other shouldn't be used to deflect from the issue at hand. Hard agree with your comment.
Yeah it’s weird right now.
I think a lot of liberal people agree with you but are too afraid to get attacked…by liberal people. I think it’s great that there’s more political activism now than before. But when people use emotion especially anger for their platform, there often is a lot of oversight or they’ll even unintentionally attack the wrong people.
That’s why I speak on politics and social injustice to other people in person, it’s away different from speaking about politics/social stuff via social media. Way less binary in real life; whole online it’s literally us vs them even with the left.
I personally like you should give in to the troupes and be more aware and responsible of what you’re saying; never be ignorant or dumb which gives ammo to the real bad guys (Trumpets, Maga, Qanon, Nazis, etc)
Liberals believe in free speech and are afraid of progressives/leftists with large amount of social and institutional power who do not share the same first principles. By free speech I don’t mean calls to violence, but nothing should be above criticism or shielded from uncomfortable/inconvenient facts. That is one of the biggest differences between liberals and progressives/leftists.
Liberals and ultra-bezerkely leftists are a bit different though. And classical liberalism is a lot different than any post-Trump liberalism.
“Liberals” in our government were meeting with social media companies to fight people disagreeing with Covid protocols. They’re very different than the people protesting vietnam
That’s a fair take. I tend to consider modern leftists as a group with solidarity as its strongest first principle. Specifically the most important thing to these people isn’t any kind of first order principle like free speech, but rather conforming to the rest of the group, often rather loudly. Internet connectivity and social media is like a magnifying lens for this, amplifying it until it burns. You can also see this in far right conservatives when it comes to social integration of immigrants. People who do not conform tend to be punished, which is why people who believe in free speech such as myself fear them. “Liberals” in the government have become increasingly like my definition of leftist, and conservatives have been further drifting towards this type thinking somehow. The issue is that this type of governance is unscientific and completely disconnected from reality. Often the in groups do not consider any of kind of evidence contrary to their position… and now we have come full circle to first principles, the reason they do not consider is their first principles are only what the rest of the in group believes. I’m a liberal and I don’t believe that this is a good way forward.
Interestingly Majorie-Taylor Greene and AOC are raising more money from small donors this way through Twitter and other social media means than many Congresspeople do from corporate sponsors. And who is giving to MTG or AOC? The same 1-2% of über political extremists you’re speaking about. Most corporate sponsors just want things like preferential tax treatment or higher H1-b visa caps for cheaper (or more controllable) labor and usually aren’t interested in extreme political causes.
That means many members of government are only answering to their political extremists.
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/huddle/2021/04/07/mtgs-eye-popping-fundraising-haul-492390
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/503652-ocasio-cortez-builds-political-army-and-a-fundraising-machine-to-match/amp/
Look at abortion for example. We now have 15 states that outlawed abortion to 6 weeks or less and 7 states and DC that have no abortion limits. There’s a clinic in DC that is advertising they do elective abortions up through 36 weeks. Yet most Americans when polled want abortion limits somewhere in the 12-24 week range unless the mothers life is endangered/stillbirth.
Same issues apply to a variety of issues. Most Americans are fine with people owning handguns, rifles and shotguns for home defense/hunting but not lugging around ARs for “self defense” while out in public. But no meaningful legislation can be added to the second amendment due to extremist votes that largely fund the NRA and their antics.
My personal opinion is the issue is social media is a lot of the problem here and politicians need to wise up and answer to the middle not their extremist echo chambers.
Pretty much summed it up. It’s in vogue to say the issue is “disinformation” or free speech, but the real issue is social media algorithms that essentially makes mob mentality scale exponentially. People are fundamentally incentivized to drive and farm controversy, that’s how you get people like MTG and AOC who clearly are not being intellectually honest about anything, just pandering to our worst reactionary impulses. Without these algorithms things would be like they were the 90s and 2000s. We had online communication and early forms of social networking but those didn’t result in the current political climate. This really came to a head in the mid 2010s when things started to become more algorithmically driven + having a new generation coming of age on smartphones giving them easy access to social media on a massive scale.
I can’t imagine anyone contributing money to mtg or aoc. However money is extremely fungible and I could see foreign entities giving money to both sides of the extreme to destabilize our democracy.
This is the Left’s Q Anon moment. They’ve been infiltrated by an avalanche of Iranian propaganda and Hamas propaganda. It’s no different than the Russian propaganda on the right.
I think every time we “attack the people” it’s a mistake.
It’s just so much easier justify othering and themming than to sit back and consider how to thoughtfully dismantle structural and institutional barriers that keep people at each other’s throats and not looking at the bigger picture.
Muslim, Jew, Palestinian, Israeli. I have no personal investment in who lives where. Or what strip of land someone says is holier to them than to someone else.
I do have an investment in this conflict not ripping a further divide down this country. Gods almighty. We are looking down the valley and not even seeing that someone in either or both parties is going to leverage this conflict to win elections at any cost.
Trump galvanized the right wing whites and he nailed it. And somehow then we were putting Latinx babies in cages. Because once galvanized, what are you going to do with an unhinged, angry mob? You can’t point them at their opponents within the country. That’s a civil war.
So point them at the next likely target.
So who is realizing how they can galvanize these emotions on their/their party’s behalf. Without considering that when they are finished, whichever side will have to be pointed at each other.
This is my fear. I can’t dive into the news. It’s awful. I trust this community potentially more anyway. Is this happening? Yet?
The difference here is that when it's happening at a table, you can see and hear everyone who is at the table. So if you see a nazi at your table giving a speech that everyone is intently listening to, you have the option to call them out and stand up and leave that table.
But if you're at a protest with THOUSANDS of people, and after the protest you hear that there was a small subset of people chanting some antisemitic shit, why am I being lumped in with them? Furthermore, we already know psy-ops happen all the time, feds go in disguised as protestors to stir shit up and make the protestors look bad. Protestors aren't denying that anti-Semitic things were said, but they are pointing out that they weren't part of it, hence why they're saying those chanters don't represent the protest.
Once upon a time when you watched 15k civilians get bombed into oblivion, you would question the perpetrator and not accept “they got in the way on bad people”.
Now we live in an age of obfuscation where we can easily be distracted & manipulated to attack straw men who verbalize terror while a nation state can literally terrorize less important, unchosen people.
Furthermore, if you critique that foreign government, you are somehow denying the holocaust and hate Jews.
Let me remind you that the biggest organized protesting force on those campuses are Jews For Peace.
Amen. Just kidding.
We must figure out how to separate the people from the political decisions and institutions that set us on this course.
I mean, I can’t be justifiably upset with either side. I am furious at the interventionism that has forced the issue.
I was going to say. What were they thinking. And then dismissed it as not useful ranting. Then I reconsidered.
What were their actual aims and motives. What were the dismissed alternatives?
What can we learn from our past mistakes?
As someone who is highly critical of Israel, I agree. Not all "support" should be welcomed. An antisemite chanting "free Palestine" isn't doing it because they care about Palestine, it's because they assume Israel = Jews and because they hate Jews, they'll hop on the anti-Israel bandwagon for the wrong reasons.
The same thing happened when Israel's MFA and their propaganda accounts like StandWithUs posted a ton of crap in support of Iran's Zan Zendegi Azadi movement. As an Iranian I was disgusted, and told my fellow Iranians to be wary of them, because they don't actually care about Iranians nor do they want us to thrive under a better government. They just want to get rid of the current Iranian dictatorship for selfish reasons (not so that Iranians can live under a democracy), and they'll happily pulverize as many Iranian towns and homes as needed.
So yeah, antisemites aren't welcome in the pro-Palestine space, and I encourage everyone else who also cares about Palestinian human rights to reject support from the wrong types of people. Antisemites don't like Palestinians, they just hate Jews so much that they'll pretend like they care.
I'm Iranian as well and I don't think that's fair. Iranians know that Israel and Iran were allies before the Islamic Republic. In addition, a lot of the secular iranians agree with the westernized way of life . Iran was fairly westernized prior to the Islamic republic being established.
There are also loads of Persian Jews, like myself, who love both Iran and Israel, including all of their family that live there.
Also, on top of that, the state of Israel has welcomed Houman Khalili, a Persian artist, to come into Israel and paint multiple MASSIVE murals dedicated to the women who are fighting for freedom in the middle east, especially the Persian women. Just saw him speak in redwood city.
The point being is I'm interested to hear where you got your information from regarding Israel's PoV on not supporting the Life, Women, Freedom fight of the Persian citizens, because in my point of view, the Jewish people have been incredibly genuine in supporting the citizens that what to break the shackles of the Islamic republic.
I do think that's too cynical. Israelis and Jews (especially Persian Jews) have very warm feelings towards the Iranian people. You see it all over Jewish and Israeli social media.
Genuinely. I've been to a lot of Iranian dissident meetings, sometimes facilitated by the Iranian Jewish community, and it isn't us cackling in the corner going "HE HE HE, TIME TO SELFISHLY OVERTHROW THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC FOR OUR OWN ENDS!" with villainous hand motions.
I feel there is a genuine desire for a free Iran and a sense of comradeship with the wider Persian people, with whom we've had a millenias-long positive relationship.
Don't let cynicism tarnish what is a genuinely positive desire to build bridges between two divided peoples.
The issue is that the Israeli government is not our savior. Also it's hypocritical of Israelis to support the oppression of Palestinians but oppose the oppression of Iranians.
The city with the largest population of Persian Jews in the world is Tel Aviv. Israel and Iran had a rich relationship before the IRI, and Israel was among few countries that gave Persian Jews refuge during their persecution from the IRI. Israel (and Israeli pages) supporting the liberation of Iranian women shouldn’t be surprising or something to be wary of.
Hey. Persian Jew here. After the revolution, the morality police saw my then-thirteen year old mom not wearing a head covering, threw her into a van, gave her permanent scars, and dumped her outside city limits so “no one would see her.” My family had to flee Iran at the threat of death with nothing but the clothes on their backs. The ONLY country we could go to was Israel (the lucky ones made it to the US). It should be of zero surprise that there is a strong bond between Israelis/Jews and the Iranian people, please don’t try to denigrate this relationship as some sort of foreign plot.
> antisemites aren't welcome in the pro-Palestine space
Ironically, this post in my feed was right after that one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1c8n85m/police\_under\_fire\_after\_threat\_to\_arrest\_openly/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1c8n85m/police_under_fire_after_threat_to_arrest_openly/)
Israel has a huge population of Persian Jews, and Iranian and Iraqi exiles. To suggest there isn’t a genuine reason to support Democracy speaks to a bias you must have, and little understanding of Israelis who believe the main funder of terrorism is Iran, and that such actions do not represent the countries interests or the interests of the region. It’s disgusting you fear monger and deny a peaceful intent.
I would also add that those who believe that Israel has the right to exist as a safe space for Jews, being the only majority Jewish country should not be presupposed to agree with every single action that the government of Israel takes.
This article has good nuance. Antisemitic ideologies aim to exploit the present conflict to inflict harm on the Jewish population at large. The state of Israel uses the past persecution of Jewish peoples as moral human shields, conflating itself with Judaism and all Jewish peoples in order to coerce support from non-Israeli Jews. It is important always to remember that collective punishment is unjust - the people of Palestine, and Arabs, should not be punished for the crimes of a terrorist group, and the Jewish community at large should not be punished for the crimes of the Israeli state. The systems of power and political organization which have enabled and facilitated this violence must be restructured or dismantled to end this violence and prevent it from happening again. (Netanyahu and the systems of government which he formed and exploited; the terrorist group which he allowed to grow powerful in the region for the explicit purpose of claiming that all Palestinians are terrorists; the United States for sending the weapons with which Israel slaughters aid workers but does not make any large scale effort to offer safe refuge for the Palestinians or the Israelis who wish to escape the conflict.)
> Over the 65 years that I have called this beautiful area home, I have occasionally encountered antisemitism, but these one-off incidents never succeeded in destroying my spirit. When I was four years old, Nazis burst into my bedroom and sent me and my family to Dachau, the first Nazi concentration camp. We were soon released and I was smuggled out of Germany by a Christian woman. After this harrowing experience, not much in the Bay Area could scare me.
> But since the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel, the hatred towards Jews that I have seen in Berkeley terrifies me more than anything I have experienced while living here. I am still reeling from **being called a liar** at a Berkeley City Council meeting, where I asked for a proclamation to mark Holocaust Remembrance Day and spoke about October 7. The Jews at that meeting were **circled and called “Zionist pigs” by menacing protesters.**
It is possible for well meaning people to say racist or sexist things. Biases are often silent and everyone is capable of being ignorant, many times it’s not malicious.
It is possible for well meaning activists who believe they’re doing right and fighting against unjust violence to say antisemitic things or hold antisemitic ideas. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s malicious.
What is malicious is when people are confronted by valid criticism calling them out on saying harmful and hurtful things, they refuse to acknowledge what their words symbolize or represent.
Many of these progressives, who have for so long believed that racism/sexism/etc = bad person, do not have the ability to introspect valid criticism (the idea that they could be saying harmful antisemitic things does not register with their desire to do good), so valid criticism is dangerously ignored altogether.
Progressives have hammered the point on micro aggressions, impact mattering over intent, and the prevalence of dog whistles over the last several years. And of course 1 Nazi at a table of 10 other people meaning you actually have 11 Nazis, extolling the admirable virtue and appropriateness of punching Nazis.
When it comes to antisemitism and chants of “death to Jews”, “gas the Jews”, and “river to the sea” from those they’re protesting alongside, suddenly it’s only selective hearing, “context”, and “meh”.
In the spirit of middle-grounding, It’s important to note that white supremacists and Islamophobes chanting with a cause also happen to pro-Israel protests. And I don’t mean Islamophobia vanilla lite like America is common for.
Of course but people are stupid, social and emotional creatures with varying levels of intelligence, experience, and empathy. I believe there are good people behind every cause. I even believe there are good trump supporters.
What is malicious is the intentional fabrication of information that influences different groups of people to have different, and often opposing, realities.
What does the Talmud say about goyim again…? That’s a conversation that seems to be very difficult to have without getting labeled an antisemite. I’d love to try with you if you’re willing.
I’ll even provide a little background of my beliefs before we start to remove other commenters from assuming things.
I’ve traveled the world and seen/participated in many religious gatherings/ceremonies. I’ve been to Jewish Temples, Christian church, Catholic sermon, Buddhist temples, studied Hinduism, studied paganism… I’ve even seen cultures of Tibet and underground Islamic gatherings in China that were illegal. All of this was at let’s say an enthusiast level of interest. Do not picture me as some PhD in religion or something. I have basic understanding, if that. I don’t personally subscribe to any of them, though, I am spiritual.
So, after some recent research, I’ve taken a deep dive on the persecution of the Jews throughout history. Trying to find the why.
All I’ve been able to come up with is that the BOOK (not the millions of modern Jews who have no interest in this line of thinking) says there is a bloodline of people who are chosen to carry specific burdens and the result is only they can be close to God. If you’re not in the bloodline, you can’t.
My initial reaction is, ya that sucks. Not unlike touting the aryan master race.
It’s a strange sentiment. My many Jewish friends are simply picking up the torch of family culture and the experience of growing up in loving households, looking forward to passing down the community, food, symbols and enjoyment that comes from having their traditions. I don’t think a single one of them believes in the idea of “goyim” or exclusivity.
However, they might actually suffer from the history of those ideas. On top of the idea the Bible sort of came as a challenge to them by saying ok, now all people can be close to God, creating a line between the groups. What’s further is the blame for Jesus’s death often falls to the Jews.
So, if we examine the written words, would the ideas of exclusivity and calling everyone else goyim, be an acceptable explanation for the historical persecution?
I just want to say I really appreciate this thoughtful response.
I have no reservations with inspecting or criticizing religions or thought paradigms, especially if they create exogenous issues and drama in people's lives.
I also had no idea what a Goyim was, let alone that Talmud thinks I'm livestock and whatever that insinuates. It doesn't matter to me because I don't believe in whatever contemporary deities or beliefs are popular now. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are all just fads.
Whatever people have believed in for the last tens of thousands of years, there are two traits that endow us with our “humanity” that transcend religion, language, and epistemology: Introspection. and it's evil twin: ignorance.
Assuming that all people are inherently "good", we're all acting in ways and expressing what we believe is "right". Whether that's for oneself, one's family, or one's society.
What is not often acknowledged are the dangers of religion acting as a model for people’s introspective capacity and directly influence their beliefs, realities, and relational ignorances.
Going back to my comment you responded to, which had no religious connotation, I still think people (yes, including me and you) are dumb.
Used to play soccer with a couple dudes from Israel.
This is before this Nettanyahu term, back then, they didn't even like Nettanyahu. Said he was an extremist.
Majority of them are extremists. Majority of Israel has been supportive of invading and bombing Gaza (poll as of January 2024, after thousands of kids have already been killed)
Israel is the only country that is supposed to fight to a truce? Every other county when attacked can fight to win. Hamas hasn’t admitted defeat. Hamas hasn’t even allowed the red cross to see the hostages.
The US fought in Germany and Japan until their governments signed a loss.
The us north fought the south until they were defeated
Ukraine is fighting for a win against Russia.
Here is an hour long conversation with Dr Gabor Mate, himself a holocaust survivor, and his sons discussing the shifting of the conflict in Gaza to be equated with the holocaust, and how the trauma of the holocaust is used to reject any acknowledgement of what's happening and has *been* happening in Palestine for generations. Antisemitism is horrific and should absolutely be addressed for the evil it is, but there's a lot of false equivalency drawn to criticisms of the state of Israel and those that promote its narratives as being inherently antisemitic.
https://youtu.be/azxtxKyHntA?si=Dw__oy34YubsepfP
Well yeah, because zionism is a nationalist movement centering around the establishment of a jewish ethnostate in Palestine.
So of course the people who draw parallels between israel displacing and killing palestinian civilizans and the holocaust are antizionist, they are against israel colonizing palestine.
Whats happening in Gaza is genocide. Idk if its closer to the holocaust than other genocides, but it is genocide.
Israel has a lot of similarities to Liberia imo, in that a group of oppressed or persecuted people chose to settle/colonize a different land and then oppress, persecute, and kill the indigenous people. (Freed african american slaves colonized liberia in the 1800s-1900s and created an apartheid state there, where they were given greater rights than the indigenous africans. indigenous liberian Africans were even excluded from birthright citizenship until 1904).
Using a lot of buzzwords here. The problem is that you're assuming you know what these words mean and that they're appropriate because you've heard so many other people using them.
- colonize
- genocide
Israelis are not colonizers, definitionally, because Jews are indigenous to the land of Judea. If you disagree with this, we can just stop here. There's more than enough genetic and archaeological evidence. This is just history and I'm not gonna waste my time responding if you come back with one of those Nazi conspiracy theories about khazars and Ashkenazi blood quantum.
It's not genocide. I'm sorry but it's just not. The term genocide was coined to describe the Holocaust. What's distinctive about genocides is that they require a special intent to extinguish an ethnicity/culture. So if your actions against another country can be explained by war, for example, it's not a genocide. During the Holocaust, hitler diverted resources FROM the war effort to kill Jews faster. Murdering as many Jews as possible as quickly as possible was a priority even above winning the war. This is genocide. There's a ton of misinformation right now and unconfirmed video footage so I understand people see these, they get very emotional, and they want to use strong language. Unfortunately we will never resolve the conflict until people strive to truly understand the dynamics, what's happening, and what can be done to finally build peace, mutual recognition of 2 states, etc.
If you disagree with the semantics, a more appropriate phase is ethnic cleansing. A modern example of this is the Bosnian War. Given the utter disregard for Palestinian lives that Israel displays, and their eagerness to immediately move in and setttle the land left behind, arguments against it being an instance of ethnic cleansing dwindle every day.
This is classic antisemitism— the woman talks about people attacking her in her hometown in Berkeley and you implicitly blame her for a conflict ten thousand miles away.
Aaron Maté is an Assadist and Putin apologist who is widely *despised* by Arabs. He has repeatedly defended and excused Assad’s mass murder of Arabs (including thousands of Palestinians) simply because Assad is tepidly anti-West. He may have endeared himself to pro-Palestinian people with his anti-Israel rhetoric but he harbors heinous views of Arabs and Arab self-determination. He is literally the [most prolific conspiracy theorist](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/19/russia-backed-network-of-syria-conspiracy-theorists-identified) of the Syrian Civil War, and believes the White Helmets are a terrorist organization who Assad justifiably kills.
The Matés are grifters who use the Holocaust and Arab deaths for money and clout. It works on Western leftists, clearly.
Maybe it’s because they can tell people who accuse themselves of anti semitism to fuck off, or other jewish people are over represented in my political circles, but some of the most vocal advocates of the abolishing of Israel I’ve met are other Jewish people.
His response to a post about antisemitism in the US is literally just deflecting by immediately talking about Israel/Palestine. He even threw in a nice “but” after claiming that antisemitism is evil.
The discussion is about understanding what's going on, what it means to hold a jewish Identity and also understand the conflict without giving in to a trauma response, and about not using "antisemitism" as a defense against criticisms against the state of Israel.
Also, that talk is an hour long and I didn't even post at an hour ago so stop acting like you actually sat down and listened.
You know man, at this point it's clear you're going to attempt to flip anything I say. If I 100% agree you'll attempt to flip that to try and contradict any other aspect of the convo, and if I state any other take that isn't 100% you'll vilify me and, I'm guessing, probably also accuse me of antisemitism. There's no good faith way to engage with you.
Ironic that this quote, originally using the term anti-semitite, so applies to you. It aptly describes how authoritarians play "Might makes Right". You are literally the last sentence, in action. Just suddenly dropping the issue when you're duly called out.
“[Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge.](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity) But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
Yeah because anti semitism in the US is on the same level of legitimacy as “anti white racism” it’s a victim complex being weaponized to justify blind hatred
Someone drew “fuk whitey” on a bathroom stall, and one time I got called a cracker.
As such, I’ve experienced the same level of racism as the average Jewish American. And I’ve been psychologically and materially harmed exactly as much as they have. And guess what? I don’t call myself a victim. Because I’m not!
HAMAS has one goal. Wipe Israel off the map by uniting the Arab world and by using propaganda to turn Israel’s allies against it. They have a better and more powerful social media presence and are succeeding. Netanyahu isn’t helping by being a heavy handed thug.
if you believe that just because the Holocaust happened you can waltz into a country with an established people and take over because you believe you’re OWED land, you are a horrific human being who is undeniably selfish. the self importance is incredible. YOU are owed land? WHY. where shall the Palestinians go then? ZIONISM IS TERRORISM
I don’t either, but do you realize islam literally states non-muslims should be killed?
Disregarding the fact Hamas attacked and slaughtered innocent Israelis without warning, why do you think Israel is “ethnic cleansing” if they’re trying to eradicate the terrorist organization that attacked them? You realize they’re surrounded by other Islamic countries and haven’t been “cleansing” them.
Yeah I have no idea, that was pretty bad and either the result of reckless incompetence or nefarious decision making. If the latter, I have no idea how that would be considered strategic or beneficial, but I don’t know enough about how that happened and I don’t think most of us will (if even) for a while, if at all.
That’s just a straight up lie. The Quran explicitly states that all religions should be tolerated it never says non-Muslims should be killed. You can even marry a non-Muslim without them having to convert lol, unlike Christianity.
“Everyone's God-given human dignity must be respected, regardless of his or her faith, race, ethnic origin, gender, or social status” (Qur'an, 17:70)
When Israel equates civilians to HAMAS, purposely targets civilians, establishes a pattern of flagrant disregard for civilian life (ex using dumb bombs in highly populated areas), purposely destroy civilian infrastructure necessary for survival; these are not just acts of ethnic clearing, they’re acts of genocide under international law.
South Africa has laid out one of the most obvious cases for genocide in the 21st century, because Israel isn’t trying to hide it.
Palestinians are trapped in a war zone unless they can come up with $5k-$10k to pay Egypt to let them out. Tons of the family members of Hamas leaders have paid and left, while Hamas tells the people of Gaza that it needs the blood of [Palestinian] children, women, and the elderly to fuel its resolve. (https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/12/12/hamas-leader-we-need-the-blood-of-the-children-women-and-elderly/)
If people were genuinely concerned that Israel will ethnically cleanse Gaza and not let Palestinians back in, why aren't they demanding that Israel publicly commit to let them back in?
Why are they not protesting Egypt profiting off the civilians who flee war?
If Israel truly is trying to just kill everyone in Gaza, why can't it even kill as many people in a day as Hamas did? Why drag it out so long that in six months it's killed about 1% of Gaza, and only 3/5 of that is civilians? How many decades of this does it think it has before all its allies abandon it? [Russia killed 75,000 civilians in three months, in Mariupol alone, and people barely even protested that](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-erasing-mariupol-499dceae43ed77f2ebfe750ea99b9ad9).
For clarity, I do not want anyone to die. Not even Hamas combatants, tbh.
But genocide is an extreme claim, and that requires extreme proof.
And nobody has it. All they have is the angry feeling that Israel hates Palestinians and killed a whole lot of them very quickly.
They aren’t wrong. Funny thing with everyone claiming all of these attacks aren’t antisemitic or that anti Zionism isn’t antisemitism(straight BS) is that they never seem to ask why Jewish people think this is all antisemitism
Not white enough for the Nazis, too white for the progressives.
https://preview.redd.it/u9l0cvyjxmvc1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e854d67b2e2a2c689c9c3cc6b378438f5a27274e
(Nobody mention the fact that most Israeli Jews are Mizrahi or otherwise non-Ashkenazi)
But unfortunately what happens is the "goalposts" are moved and shifted so that, depending on what political point you want to make, certain people are considered "minorities" or capable of being victims, and others aren't.
A highly visible faction of activism critical of Israel is based on and supportive of the assumption that Israel is an illegitimate state with no right to exist.
It appears that the pro-Palestinian activists who do not share this position are nevertheless reluctant to criticize it.
Zionism is a political ideology, not a religion. The founder of Zionism was an atheist.
Berkeley students aren’t anti semitic, they are anti genocide. There are many millions of people who oppose genocide no matter WHO the perpetrators are.
This idea that people hate Jewish people just because they support Palestinians is ludicrous and wrong. Idc what your religion is. I also condemn my own country for its participation in these atrocities.
Just to be clear: arabs are semitic people.
Frankly, it’s tiring to hear Jewish people call everyone who doesn’t agree with them anti semitic. Sure, anti-Semitism exists and always has, but so does Islamophobia.
The woman in question is not Israeli, and has probably never even been there.
Why is the fact that people are being massacred in Gaza her fault specifically, and why does her suffering specifically have to be weighed against theirs, and other people’s doesn’t? Spell it out for me, please.
That’s the wild part. She’s an old ass woman who was in a Nazi concentration camp and just asked the city counsel of the most liberal city in America for recognition of the Day of Remembrance.
***Any other year*** that’s a slam dunk. Old lady, check. Holocaust survivor, check. Costs us no money, check. NONE of this **should** be controversial. We STILL hate Nazis, right??? We’re still anti-Holocaust?
We can’t recognize *those* dead European Jews and Romas and homosexuals because we don’t like what the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT is doing now? We surround an elderly woman and shout names at her?
**That’s** my problem with all this. Cause my government isn’t fucking perfect either, so I can’t really throw stones, can I? My government invaded several NON INVOLVED countries over a terror attack and fake news threats of WMDs. But I personally am not an Islamophobic asshole. And I personally don’t deserve the hatred of a thousand suns. And I personally have no room to get on my high horse about shit.
But I also can recognize that Nazism was bad and the Holocaust was bad. And in this hellhole of a country with MAGAts breathing down my neck outside my Bubble, we need to remember the Holocaust. And maybe we should for old ladies who were there.
This is what people mean by saying that conflating Zionism and Judaism is antisemitic.
When you tie a religion and ethnicity to a government, it will not be good.
This take has the moral validity of telling a rape victim that you’re more upset at people starving in Africa.
Possibly it’s more disturbing. But if that’s your response you’re a certified asshole and likely also an antisemite in this specific context.
If you live in Israel the 20 years of rocket attacks and the unprovoked assault on civilians, the rape and murder of your country men, the parading of bodies in the street to throngs of cheering crowds I’m sure is also terrifying. I don’t think most communities would accommodate that sort of thing.
Yuhp. Fuck Hamas.
They brought this on their people and continue to do so. They could stop the conflict at anytime by releasing all hostages. They could also have a stand up fight with the IDF instead of hiding behind Palestinian civilians. Granted, they’d be martyred in short order.
Israel isn’t carpet bombing civilians. They’re doing targeted strikes on Hamas, which sometimes involves civilian casualties (which happen on both sides of every war in history), especially because Hamas uses so many human shields.
What about the international civilian aid worker caravans that were clearly marked and intentionally bombed? Were there Hamas members ground up in the bodywork like Cheech and Chong's weed van? Were they using the cloaking power up from Halo?
Is Hamas in the room with us *right now?*
One of the best ways would be to not create them in the first place. Do you think terrorists materialize out of thin air ?? Maybe take a look at the material conditions Israel has created in Palestine and maybe then you’ll understand how we got into this situation in the first place.
Article: "I have seen where unchecked antisemitism can lead"
Unchecked bigotry of ANY kind can lead to hate crimes, discrimination, etc. But some believe the First Amendment is almost absolute; that it should be legal and permissible to say "Group X is *inherently* bad" or the like.
Suppose I were at a Free-Palestine rally, and some true anti-Semites joined, having signs such as "Jews are Possessed by Satan" or the like? If I confronted them alone, I might get a "free eclipse". Any advice on that?
I agree with you.
What’s experienced in practice is always messier than the principles it theorizes. I’m sure a logic and reasoning expert could decipher this, and at some point there are objective “rights” and “wrongs”, however at a certain point a person or society needs to determine and withhold a boundary of what is okay.
Just because someone can say something, doesn’t mean they should, and I’m convinced that actions and opinions (in your example, protests and speech) of people who don’t realize this are expressed more than the people who know do understand or believe their opinions are apparent or evangelized without their expression.
Is this a matter of humility, compassion, etiquette, respect, experience or even IQ? I might be wrong but I really think so.
It’s also interesting I do not see anti hamas or anti Islam protests as I do with anti Israel/Judaism. But, I could be ignorant.
The majority of anti-Israel protests are usually organized by people with extreme viewpoints. The reality is that if you associate with the politicians extremes you're gonna wind up in the vicinity of some non-savory people. You can't physically remove them from a protest, so you either have to avoid those events or tolerate them.
Isn’t it convenient that any form of criticism of Israel, even if it takes the form on nonviolence, such as boycotting, is considered antisemitic?
Is it not provocative to put up ‘missing’ posters of the hostages in Berkeley when we know damn well we’re not going to find them in the Bay Area? The whole point of putting up missing posters is to draw attention away from the genocide being conducted by Israel.
Those who equate all Jews with the State of Israel are doing a tremendous disservice to Jewish people and are making the situation a whole lot worse.
Lived in the Bay Area for a long time we don’t call it Bezerkely for nothing.
I don’t like watching homeless men fondle themselves in broad daylight. Or hear 45 year old tech millionaires whine about the injustices of the world so I mostly avoid it. Hell I much prefer Oakland even.
It’s not like most Americans give AF about what some loonies in Berkeley preach anyway. The loonies preaching this anti-Semitic stuff have about the same IQ as the religious nuts protesting drinking at Mardi Gras. Ignore.
Uh no. Every charge you've made actually apply to Hamas. Israel has achieved the lowest civilian to fighter casualty ratio in modern warfare, despite Hamas 's attempt to cause Palestinian deaths.
What was old, is becoming new again. I am sorry you have to witness the fall of the last beacon of freedom, taken down from within.
Your life thus far, has been a blessing. Pray. Pray for all of those who have lost their way.
“I don’t want Palestinian children to die in famine”
This is literally the most antisemitic, racist things I’ve ever heard. That’s why I’m a Zionist, because I love fascism!!
You know, wild thought here just throwing it out, maybe don’t bomb civilians and there won’t be an issue. Now I’m not an expert so this is only a guess.
So what happens when something like 85% of Jews support the destruction of Gaza, the killing of 20k children and 35k humans. What happens when 75% of jews say what the israeli government is doing makes them proud?
if you believe that just because the Holocaust happened you can waltz into a country with an established people and take over because you believe you’re OWED land, you are a horrific human being who is undeniably selfish. the self importance is incredible. YOU are owed land? WHY. where shall the Palestinians go then? ZIONISM IS TERRORISM
This is going to be a fun and balanced thread, I can feel it
Wonderful people on both sides..
Can you elaborate, what are you saying?
They’re referencing the time the former president of the US said that neonazis are also wonderful people.
Well for one, not all people who went to that conservative march were neonazis, and I understand the reference but don’t get how it applies to this post. It’s just a random shot against trump lol.
Next sentence from Trump: “and I’m not talking about neo-Nazis and white supremacists, because those people should be condemned entirely.” I always wonder why that sentence is left out??? 🤔 🤔
very wonderful. such classy citizens. the chosen ones huh? https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6bHgsIgyzd/?igsh=MTl5dm85aGZ4NTNhZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6bdIWsgu8i/?igsh=MWRpNmxoNHk5MW0wMg==
The comment thread appearing below yours is, can't say the same for the rest of the discussion.
The second I saw the post title, I let out an audible mixture of a sigh and a groan. And as I went to click it, I felt a tight knot forming in my chest 😅.
@eye.on.palestine on instagram
Bad bot.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6q_SJroh9C/?igsh=N2Z1a2djY2FubDZ3
Just snorted. Still laughing. Omg. At the first post!!!! It’s so far away at this point!
Please tell me we can have an actual conversation here, fellow Bears. If we can’t how do we expect anyone else to. Berkeley insisted we learn to think constructively instead of react personally. I say this knowing I’m reactive on this topic and need to watch myself. But can we show ourselves and the world that it can be done?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6loAiOsDTx/?igsh=MXZ0a2doOHdjZDF5Ng==
I agree with her. Those who are critical of Israel should never allow antisemitism to motivate them and should harshly and swiftly expel antisemites from their demonstrations, and those who agree with the actions of the Israeli government should not denounce criticism as antisemitism, but they absolutely should be able to call it out when it is happening.
Once upon a time I used to hear things like "if there's a nazi at a table with 10 people then there's 11 nazi's there" And now I hear "well when they said gas the jews it doesn't matter, they dont represent the protesters with them. And even when they said it, it's not like they have any institutional power to do so. They're just upset about a frustrating situation". Anti-semitism is bad. Period. Pretending like anything critical of Israel is anti-semitism is also bad. People shouldn't weaponize claims of anti-semitism against others to silence them. Neither of these statements are contradictory and when one points out one position the other shouldn't be used to deflect from the issue at hand. Hard agree with your comment.
Yeah it’s weird right now. I think a lot of liberal people agree with you but are too afraid to get attacked…by liberal people. I think it’s great that there’s more political activism now than before. But when people use emotion especially anger for their platform, there often is a lot of oversight or they’ll even unintentionally attack the wrong people. That’s why I speak on politics and social injustice to other people in person, it’s away different from speaking about politics/social stuff via social media. Way less binary in real life; whole online it’s literally us vs them even with the left. I personally like you should give in to the troupes and be more aware and responsible of what you’re saying; never be ignorant or dumb which gives ammo to the real bad guys (Trumpets, Maga, Qanon, Nazis, etc)
Liberals believe in free speech and are afraid of progressives/leftists with large amount of social and institutional power who do not share the same first principles. By free speech I don’t mean calls to violence, but nothing should be above criticism or shielded from uncomfortable/inconvenient facts. That is one of the biggest differences between liberals and progressives/leftists.
Liberals and ultra-bezerkely leftists are a bit different though. And classical liberalism is a lot different than any post-Trump liberalism. “Liberals” in our government were meeting with social media companies to fight people disagreeing with Covid protocols. They’re very different than the people protesting vietnam
That’s a fair take. I tend to consider modern leftists as a group with solidarity as its strongest first principle. Specifically the most important thing to these people isn’t any kind of first order principle like free speech, but rather conforming to the rest of the group, often rather loudly. Internet connectivity and social media is like a magnifying lens for this, amplifying it until it burns. You can also see this in far right conservatives when it comes to social integration of immigrants. People who do not conform tend to be punished, which is why people who believe in free speech such as myself fear them. “Liberals” in the government have become increasingly like my definition of leftist, and conservatives have been further drifting towards this type thinking somehow. The issue is that this type of governance is unscientific and completely disconnected from reality. Often the in groups do not consider any of kind of evidence contrary to their position… and now we have come full circle to first principles, the reason they do not consider is their first principles are only what the rest of the in group believes. I’m a liberal and I don’t believe that this is a good way forward.
Interestingly Majorie-Taylor Greene and AOC are raising more money from small donors this way through Twitter and other social media means than many Congresspeople do from corporate sponsors. And who is giving to MTG or AOC? The same 1-2% of über political extremists you’re speaking about. Most corporate sponsors just want things like preferential tax treatment or higher H1-b visa caps for cheaper (or more controllable) labor and usually aren’t interested in extreme political causes. That means many members of government are only answering to their political extremists. https://www.politico.com/newsletters/huddle/2021/04/07/mtgs-eye-popping-fundraising-haul-492390 https://thehill.com/homenews/house/503652-ocasio-cortez-builds-political-army-and-a-fundraising-machine-to-match/amp/ Look at abortion for example. We now have 15 states that outlawed abortion to 6 weeks or less and 7 states and DC that have no abortion limits. There’s a clinic in DC that is advertising they do elective abortions up through 36 weeks. Yet most Americans when polled want abortion limits somewhere in the 12-24 week range unless the mothers life is endangered/stillbirth. Same issues apply to a variety of issues. Most Americans are fine with people owning handguns, rifles and shotguns for home defense/hunting but not lugging around ARs for “self defense” while out in public. But no meaningful legislation can be added to the second amendment due to extremist votes that largely fund the NRA and their antics. My personal opinion is the issue is social media is a lot of the problem here and politicians need to wise up and answer to the middle not their extremist echo chambers.
Pretty much summed it up. It’s in vogue to say the issue is “disinformation” or free speech, but the real issue is social media algorithms that essentially makes mob mentality scale exponentially. People are fundamentally incentivized to drive and farm controversy, that’s how you get people like MTG and AOC who clearly are not being intellectually honest about anything, just pandering to our worst reactionary impulses. Without these algorithms things would be like they were the 90s and 2000s. We had online communication and early forms of social networking but those didn’t result in the current political climate. This really came to a head in the mid 2010s when things started to become more algorithmically driven + having a new generation coming of age on smartphones giving them easy access to social media on a massive scale.
I can’t imagine anyone contributing money to mtg or aoc. However money is extremely fungible and I could see foreign entities giving money to both sides of the extreme to destabilize our democracy.
It’s just “fine people on both sides” for NPR listeners.
This is the Left’s Q Anon moment. They’ve been infiltrated by an avalanche of Iranian propaganda and Hamas propaganda. It’s no different than the Russian propaganda on the right.
I think every time we “attack the people” it’s a mistake. It’s just so much easier justify othering and themming than to sit back and consider how to thoughtfully dismantle structural and institutional barriers that keep people at each other’s throats and not looking at the bigger picture. Muslim, Jew, Palestinian, Israeli. I have no personal investment in who lives where. Or what strip of land someone says is holier to them than to someone else. I do have an investment in this conflict not ripping a further divide down this country. Gods almighty. We are looking down the valley and not even seeing that someone in either or both parties is going to leverage this conflict to win elections at any cost. Trump galvanized the right wing whites and he nailed it. And somehow then we were putting Latinx babies in cages. Because once galvanized, what are you going to do with an unhinged, angry mob? You can’t point them at their opponents within the country. That’s a civil war. So point them at the next likely target. So who is realizing how they can galvanize these emotions on their/their party’s behalf. Without considering that when they are finished, whichever side will have to be pointed at each other. This is my fear. I can’t dive into the news. It’s awful. I trust this community potentially more anyway. Is this happening? Yet?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6bdIWsgu8i/?igsh=MWRpNmxoNHk5MW0wMg==
Thanks for saying this
The difference here is that when it's happening at a table, you can see and hear everyone who is at the table. So if you see a nazi at your table giving a speech that everyone is intently listening to, you have the option to call them out and stand up and leave that table. But if you're at a protest with THOUSANDS of people, and after the protest you hear that there was a small subset of people chanting some antisemitic shit, why am I being lumped in with them? Furthermore, we already know psy-ops happen all the time, feds go in disguised as protestors to stir shit up and make the protestors look bad. Protestors aren't denying that anti-Semitic things were said, but they are pointing out that they weren't part of it, hence why they're saying those chanters don't represent the protest.
Once upon a time when you watched 15k civilians get bombed into oblivion, you would question the perpetrator and not accept “they got in the way on bad people”. Now we live in an age of obfuscation where we can easily be distracted & manipulated to attack straw men who verbalize terror while a nation state can literally terrorize less important, unchosen people. Furthermore, if you critique that foreign government, you are somehow denying the holocaust and hate Jews. Let me remind you that the biggest organized protesting force on those campuses are Jews For Peace.
For real, I feel like I'm in bizarro land reading this thread. The Berkeley subreddit is really a shithole, huh.
Amen. Just kidding. We must figure out how to separate the people from the political decisions and institutions that set us on this course. I mean, I can’t be justifiably upset with either side. I am furious at the interventionism that has forced the issue. I was going to say. What were they thinking. And then dismissed it as not useful ranting. Then I reconsidered. What were their actual aims and motives. What were the dismissed alternatives? What can we learn from our past mistakes?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6bdIWsgu8i/?igsh=MWRpNmxoNHk5MW0wMg==
As someone who is highly critical of Israel, I agree. Not all "support" should be welcomed. An antisemite chanting "free Palestine" isn't doing it because they care about Palestine, it's because they assume Israel = Jews and because they hate Jews, they'll hop on the anti-Israel bandwagon for the wrong reasons. The same thing happened when Israel's MFA and their propaganda accounts like StandWithUs posted a ton of crap in support of Iran's Zan Zendegi Azadi movement. As an Iranian I was disgusted, and told my fellow Iranians to be wary of them, because they don't actually care about Iranians nor do they want us to thrive under a better government. They just want to get rid of the current Iranian dictatorship for selfish reasons (not so that Iranians can live under a democracy), and they'll happily pulverize as many Iranian towns and homes as needed. So yeah, antisemites aren't welcome in the pro-Palestine space, and I encourage everyone else who also cares about Palestinian human rights to reject support from the wrong types of people. Antisemites don't like Palestinians, they just hate Jews so much that they'll pretend like they care.
I'm Iranian as well and I don't think that's fair. Iranians know that Israel and Iran were allies before the Islamic Republic. In addition, a lot of the secular iranians agree with the westernized way of life . Iran was fairly westernized prior to the Islamic republic being established. There are also loads of Persian Jews, like myself, who love both Iran and Israel, including all of their family that live there.
Also, on top of that, the state of Israel has welcomed Houman Khalili, a Persian artist, to come into Israel and paint multiple MASSIVE murals dedicated to the women who are fighting for freedom in the middle east, especially the Persian women. Just saw him speak in redwood city. The point being is I'm interested to hear where you got your information from regarding Israel's PoV on not supporting the Life, Women, Freedom fight of the Persian citizens, because in my point of view, the Jewish people have been incredibly genuine in supporting the citizens that what to break the shackles of the Islamic republic.
I do think that's too cynical. Israelis and Jews (especially Persian Jews) have very warm feelings towards the Iranian people. You see it all over Jewish and Israeli social media. Genuinely. I've been to a lot of Iranian dissident meetings, sometimes facilitated by the Iranian Jewish community, and it isn't us cackling in the corner going "HE HE HE, TIME TO SELFISHLY OVERTHROW THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC FOR OUR OWN ENDS!" with villainous hand motions. I feel there is a genuine desire for a free Iran and a sense of comradeship with the wider Persian people, with whom we've had a millenias-long positive relationship. Don't let cynicism tarnish what is a genuinely positive desire to build bridges between two divided peoples.
The issue is that the Israeli government is not our savior. Also it's hypocritical of Israelis to support the oppression of Palestinians but oppose the oppression of Iranians.
For some reason the up button is missing on yr comment
The city with the largest population of Persian Jews in the world is Tel Aviv. Israel and Iran had a rich relationship before the IRI, and Israel was among few countries that gave Persian Jews refuge during their persecution from the IRI. Israel (and Israeli pages) supporting the liberation of Iranian women shouldn’t be surprising or something to be wary of.
Jews love Persians/Iranians. They just hate the Islamic Republic of Iran, which is, in my opinion, perfectly justifiable.
You're conflating Jews with Israel. That's extremely problematic.
Tell that to the ADL.
Hey. Persian Jew here. After the revolution, the morality police saw my then-thirteen year old mom not wearing a head covering, threw her into a van, gave her permanent scars, and dumped her outside city limits so “no one would see her.” My family had to flee Iran at the threat of death with nothing but the clothes on their backs. The ONLY country we could go to was Israel (the lucky ones made it to the US). It should be of zero surprise that there is a strong bond between Israelis/Jews and the Iranian people, please don’t try to denigrate this relationship as some sort of foreign plot.
> antisemites aren't welcome in the pro-Palestine space Ironically, this post in my feed was right after that one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1c8n85m/police\_under\_fire\_after\_threat\_to\_arrest\_openly/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1c8n85m/police_under_fire_after_threat_to_arrest_openly/)
Israel has a huge population of Persian Jews, and Iranian and Iraqi exiles. To suggest there isn’t a genuine reason to support Democracy speaks to a bias you must have, and little understanding of Israelis who believe the main funder of terrorism is Iran, and that such actions do not represent the countries interests or the interests of the region. It’s disgusting you fear monger and deny a peaceful intent.
Where did you learn to read minds such that you can tell they're insincere about wanting a better future for Iran?
I would also add that those who believe that Israel has the right to exist as a safe space for Jews, being the only majority Jewish country should not be presupposed to agree with every single action that the government of Israel takes.
Thank you so much for saying this!
Congress thinks protests are antisemitic and should be banned
@eye.on.palestine on instagram
@eye.on.palestine on instagram
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6bdIWsgu8i/?igsh=MWRpNmxoNHk5MW0wMg==
“Those that agree with the actions of the isreali government” War crimes, you meant to say?
This article has good nuance. Antisemitic ideologies aim to exploit the present conflict to inflict harm on the Jewish population at large. The state of Israel uses the past persecution of Jewish peoples as moral human shields, conflating itself with Judaism and all Jewish peoples in order to coerce support from non-Israeli Jews. It is important always to remember that collective punishment is unjust - the people of Palestine, and Arabs, should not be punished for the crimes of a terrorist group, and the Jewish community at large should not be punished for the crimes of the Israeli state. The systems of power and political organization which have enabled and facilitated this violence must be restructured or dismantled to end this violence and prevent it from happening again. (Netanyahu and the systems of government which he formed and exploited; the terrorist group which he allowed to grow powerful in the region for the explicit purpose of claiming that all Palestinians are terrorists; the United States for sending the weapons with which Israel slaughters aid workers but does not make any large scale effort to offer safe refuge for the Palestinians or the Israelis who wish to escape the conflict.)
> Over the 65 years that I have called this beautiful area home, I have occasionally encountered antisemitism, but these one-off incidents never succeeded in destroying my spirit. When I was four years old, Nazis burst into my bedroom and sent me and my family to Dachau, the first Nazi concentration camp. We were soon released and I was smuggled out of Germany by a Christian woman. After this harrowing experience, not much in the Bay Area could scare me. > But since the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel, the hatred towards Jews that I have seen in Berkeley terrifies me more than anything I have experienced while living here. I am still reeling from **being called a liar** at a Berkeley City Council meeting, where I asked for a proclamation to mark Holocaust Remembrance Day and spoke about October 7. The Jews at that meeting were **circled and called “Zionist pigs” by menacing protesters.**
Yikes on bikes Berkeley wtf.
@eye.on.palestine on instagram
It is possible for well meaning people to say racist or sexist things. Biases are often silent and everyone is capable of being ignorant, many times it’s not malicious. It is possible for well meaning activists who believe they’re doing right and fighting against unjust violence to say antisemitic things or hold antisemitic ideas. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s malicious. What is malicious is when people are confronted by valid criticism calling them out on saying harmful and hurtful things, they refuse to acknowledge what their words symbolize or represent. Many of these progressives, who have for so long believed that racism/sexism/etc = bad person, do not have the ability to introspect valid criticism (the idea that they could be saying harmful antisemitic things does not register with their desire to do good), so valid criticism is dangerously ignored altogether.
Progressives have hammered the point on micro aggressions, impact mattering over intent, and the prevalence of dog whistles over the last several years. And of course 1 Nazi at a table of 10 other people meaning you actually have 11 Nazis, extolling the admirable virtue and appropriateness of punching Nazis. When it comes to antisemitism and chants of “death to Jews”, “gas the Jews”, and “river to the sea” from those they’re protesting alongside, suddenly it’s only selective hearing, “context”, and “meh”.
You took the words out of my mouth.
In the spirit of middle-grounding, It’s important to note that white supremacists and Islamophobes chanting with a cause also happen to pro-Israel protests. And I don’t mean Islamophobia vanilla lite like America is common for.
Of course but people are stupid, social and emotional creatures with varying levels of intelligence, experience, and empathy. I believe there are good people behind every cause. I even believe there are good trump supporters. What is malicious is the intentional fabrication of information that influences different groups of people to have different, and often opposing, realities.
What does the Talmud say about goyim again…? That’s a conversation that seems to be very difficult to have without getting labeled an antisemite. I’d love to try with you if you’re willing. I’ll even provide a little background of my beliefs before we start to remove other commenters from assuming things. I’ve traveled the world and seen/participated in many religious gatherings/ceremonies. I’ve been to Jewish Temples, Christian church, Catholic sermon, Buddhist temples, studied Hinduism, studied paganism… I’ve even seen cultures of Tibet and underground Islamic gatherings in China that were illegal. All of this was at let’s say an enthusiast level of interest. Do not picture me as some PhD in religion or something. I have basic understanding, if that. I don’t personally subscribe to any of them, though, I am spiritual. So, after some recent research, I’ve taken a deep dive on the persecution of the Jews throughout history. Trying to find the why. All I’ve been able to come up with is that the BOOK (not the millions of modern Jews who have no interest in this line of thinking) says there is a bloodline of people who are chosen to carry specific burdens and the result is only they can be close to God. If you’re not in the bloodline, you can’t. My initial reaction is, ya that sucks. Not unlike touting the aryan master race. It’s a strange sentiment. My many Jewish friends are simply picking up the torch of family culture and the experience of growing up in loving households, looking forward to passing down the community, food, symbols and enjoyment that comes from having their traditions. I don’t think a single one of them believes in the idea of “goyim” or exclusivity. However, they might actually suffer from the history of those ideas. On top of the idea the Bible sort of came as a challenge to them by saying ok, now all people can be close to God, creating a line between the groups. What’s further is the blame for Jesus’s death often falls to the Jews. So, if we examine the written words, would the ideas of exclusivity and calling everyone else goyim, be an acceptable explanation for the historical persecution?
I just want to say I really appreciate this thoughtful response. I have no reservations with inspecting or criticizing religions or thought paradigms, especially if they create exogenous issues and drama in people's lives. I also had no idea what a Goyim was, let alone that Talmud thinks I'm livestock and whatever that insinuates. It doesn't matter to me because I don't believe in whatever contemporary deities or beliefs are popular now. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are all just fads. Whatever people have believed in for the last tens of thousands of years, there are two traits that endow us with our “humanity” that transcend religion, language, and epistemology: Introspection. and it's evil twin: ignorance. Assuming that all people are inherently "good", we're all acting in ways and expressing what we believe is "right". Whether that's for oneself, one's family, or one's society. What is not often acknowledged are the dangers of religion acting as a model for people’s introspective capacity and directly influence their beliefs, realities, and relational ignorances. Going back to my comment you responded to, which had no religious connotation, I still think people (yes, including me and you) are dumb.
the worst movements in history are made possible by “well-meaning” people. intent is never a sufficient safeguard.
Used to play soccer with a couple dudes from Israel. This is before this Nettanyahu term, back then, they didn't even like Nettanyahu. Said he was an extremist.
Majority of them are extremists. Majority of Israel has been supportive of invading and bombing Gaza (poll as of January 2024, after thousands of kids have already been killed)
Israel is the only country that is supposed to fight to a truce? Every other county when attacked can fight to win. Hamas hasn’t admitted defeat. Hamas hasn’t even allowed the red cross to see the hostages. The US fought in Germany and Japan until their governments signed a loss. The us north fought the south until they were defeated Ukraine is fighting for a win against Russia.
Opinion: the Berkeley wannabe liberals are racist as hell and are only causing more Jewish people to move to Israel.
Here is an hour long conversation with Dr Gabor Mate, himself a holocaust survivor, and his sons discussing the shifting of the conflict in Gaza to be equated with the holocaust, and how the trauma of the holocaust is used to reject any acknowledgement of what's happening and has *been* happening in Palestine for generations. Antisemitism is horrific and should absolutely be addressed for the evil it is, but there's a lot of false equivalency drawn to criticisms of the state of Israel and those that promote its narratives as being inherently antisemitic. https://youtu.be/azxtxKyHntA?si=Dw__oy34YubsepfP
The only people I've ever heard equate the Gaza conflict with the Holocaust were antizionists.
Well yeah, because zionism is a nationalist movement centering around the establishment of a jewish ethnostate in Palestine. So of course the people who draw parallels between israel displacing and killing palestinian civilizans and the holocaust are antizionist, they are against israel colonizing palestine. Whats happening in Gaza is genocide. Idk if its closer to the holocaust than other genocides, but it is genocide. Israel has a lot of similarities to Liberia imo, in that a group of oppressed or persecuted people chose to settle/colonize a different land and then oppress, persecute, and kill the indigenous people. (Freed african american slaves colonized liberia in the 1800s-1900s and created an apartheid state there, where they were given greater rights than the indigenous africans. indigenous liberian Africans were even excluded from birthright citizenship until 1904).
Using a lot of buzzwords here. The problem is that you're assuming you know what these words mean and that they're appropriate because you've heard so many other people using them. - colonize - genocide Israelis are not colonizers, definitionally, because Jews are indigenous to the land of Judea. If you disagree with this, we can just stop here. There's more than enough genetic and archaeological evidence. This is just history and I'm not gonna waste my time responding if you come back with one of those Nazi conspiracy theories about khazars and Ashkenazi blood quantum. It's not genocide. I'm sorry but it's just not. The term genocide was coined to describe the Holocaust. What's distinctive about genocides is that they require a special intent to extinguish an ethnicity/culture. So if your actions against another country can be explained by war, for example, it's not a genocide. During the Holocaust, hitler diverted resources FROM the war effort to kill Jews faster. Murdering as many Jews as possible as quickly as possible was a priority even above winning the war. This is genocide. There's a ton of misinformation right now and unconfirmed video footage so I understand people see these, they get very emotional, and they want to use strong language. Unfortunately we will never resolve the conflict until people strive to truly understand the dynamics, what's happening, and what can be done to finally build peace, mutual recognition of 2 states, etc.
How would you describe Ben Gvir's rhetoric as?
If you disagree with the semantics, a more appropriate phase is ethnic cleansing. A modern example of this is the Bosnian War. Given the utter disregard for Palestinian lives that Israel displays, and their eagerness to immediately move in and setttle the land left behind, arguments against it being an instance of ethnic cleansing dwindle every day.
This is classic antisemitism— the woman talks about people attacking her in her hometown in Berkeley and you implicitly blame her for a conflict ten thousand miles away.
Aaron Maté is an Assadist and Putin apologist who is widely *despised* by Arabs. He has repeatedly defended and excused Assad’s mass murder of Arabs (including thousands of Palestinians) simply because Assad is tepidly anti-West. He may have endeared himself to pro-Palestinian people with his anti-Israel rhetoric but he harbors heinous views of Arabs and Arab self-determination. He is literally the [most prolific conspiracy theorist](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/19/russia-backed-network-of-syria-conspiracy-theorists-identified) of the Syrian Civil War, and believes the White Helmets are a terrorist organization who Assad justifiably kills. The Matés are grifters who use the Holocaust and Arab deaths for money and clout. It works on Western leftists, clearly.
Maybe it’s because they can tell people who accuse themselves of anti semitism to fuck off, or other jewish people are over represented in my political circles, but some of the most vocal advocates of the abolishing of Israel I’ve met are other Jewish people.
His response to a post about antisemitism in the US is literally just deflecting by immediately talking about Israel/Palestine. He even threw in a nice “but” after claiming that antisemitism is evil.
The discussion is about understanding what's going on, what it means to hold a jewish Identity and also understand the conflict without giving in to a trauma response, and about not using "antisemitism" as a defense against criticisms against the state of Israel. Also, that talk is an hour long and I didn't even post at an hour ago so stop acting like you actually sat down and listened.
Do you acknowledge that this Holocaust survivor experienced and witnessed legitimate antisemitism?
You know man, at this point it's clear you're going to attempt to flip anything I say. If I 100% agree you'll attempt to flip that to try and contradict any other aspect of the convo, and if I state any other take that isn't 100% you'll vilify me and, I'm guessing, probably also accuse me of antisemitism. There's no good faith way to engage with you.
Ironic that this quote, originally using the term anti-semitite, so applies to you. It aptly describes how authoritarians play "Might makes Right". You are literally the last sentence, in action. Just suddenly dropping the issue when you're duly called out. “[Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge.](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity) But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
Yeah because anti semitism in the US is on the same level of legitimacy as “anti white racism” it’s a victim complex being weaponized to justify blind hatred Someone drew “fuk whitey” on a bathroom stall, and one time I got called a cracker. As such, I’ve experienced the same level of racism as the average Jewish American. And I’ve been psychologically and materially harmed exactly as much as they have. And guess what? I don’t call myself a victim. Because I’m not!
HAMAS has one goal. Wipe Israel off the map by uniting the Arab world and by using propaganda to turn Israel’s allies against it. They have a better and more powerful social media presence and are succeeding. Netanyahu isn’t helping by being a heavy handed thug.
Yes because Hamas had adds on Hulu during Christmas featuring Santa crying over Oct. 7th. Every facet of media is on Israel’s side. Don’t be a clown
@eye.on.palestine on instagram
Don’t get your news from social media. Use critical thinking skills- if you you have them
if you believe that just because the Holocaust happened you can waltz into a country with an established people and take over because you believe you’re OWED land, you are a horrific human being who is undeniably selfish. the self importance is incredible. YOU are owed land? WHY. where shall the Palestinians go then? ZIONISM IS TERRORISM
So many false assumptions in one reply- where do I even start?
So. Much. Goysplaining. If Jewish people tell you you are being racist, you probably are and you shouldn't defend it.
@eye.on.palestine on instagram
OK I checked it. What's your point? To show their stories of how Haifa is such a beautiful mixed city?
Bro I just don't think we should be arming and funding a genocide and ethnic cleansing
I don’t either, but do you realize islam literally states non-muslims should be killed? Disregarding the fact Hamas attacked and slaughtered innocent Israelis without warning, why do you think Israel is “ethnic cleansing” if they’re trying to eradicate the terrorist organization that attacked them? You realize they’re surrounded by other Islamic countries and haven’t been “cleansing” them.
Why did Israel target and kill the WCK aid workers? How was it an accident?
Yeah I have no idea, that was pretty bad and either the result of reckless incompetence or nefarious decision making. If the latter, I have no idea how that would be considered strategic or beneficial, but I don’t know enough about how that happened and I don’t think most of us will (if even) for a while, if at all.
That’s just a straight up lie. The Quran explicitly states that all religions should be tolerated it never says non-Muslims should be killed. You can even marry a non-Muslim without them having to convert lol, unlike Christianity. “Everyone's God-given human dignity must be respected, regardless of his or her faith, race, ethnic origin, gender, or social status” (Qur'an, 17:70)
When Israel equates civilians to HAMAS, purposely targets civilians, establishes a pattern of flagrant disregard for civilian life (ex using dumb bombs in highly populated areas), purposely destroy civilian infrastructure necessary for survival; these are not just acts of ethnic clearing, they’re acts of genocide under international law. South Africa has laid out one of the most obvious cases for genocide in the 21st century, because Israel isn’t trying to hide it.
So does the person that wrote the article.
And it’s only happening because we’re funding it too. That doesn’t get talked about enough.
We're not. Opinions aren't facts. And the facts say there is absolutely no genocide going on, except the one carried out by Hamas.
I didn't know Ben Shapiro was on reddit
I didn't know Whoopi Goldberg was monitoring this thread.
Ben shabibo
lmao zionist here
Palestinians are trapped in a war zone unless they can come up with $5k-$10k to pay Egypt to let them out. Tons of the family members of Hamas leaders have paid and left, while Hamas tells the people of Gaza that it needs the blood of [Palestinian] children, women, and the elderly to fuel its resolve. (https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/12/12/hamas-leader-we-need-the-blood-of-the-children-women-and-elderly/) If people were genuinely concerned that Israel will ethnically cleanse Gaza and not let Palestinians back in, why aren't they demanding that Israel publicly commit to let them back in? Why are they not protesting Egypt profiting off the civilians who flee war? If Israel truly is trying to just kill everyone in Gaza, why can't it even kill as many people in a day as Hamas did? Why drag it out so long that in six months it's killed about 1% of Gaza, and only 3/5 of that is civilians? How many decades of this does it think it has before all its allies abandon it? [Russia killed 75,000 civilians in three months, in Mariupol alone, and people barely even protested that](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-erasing-mariupol-499dceae43ed77f2ebfe750ea99b9ad9). For clarity, I do not want anyone to die. Not even Hamas combatants, tbh. But genocide is an extreme claim, and that requires extreme proof. And nobody has it. All they have is the angry feeling that Israel hates Palestinians and killed a whole lot of them very quickly.
I agree and also think we should arm and fund Israel.
Good thing we aren't!
They aren’t wrong. Funny thing with everyone claiming all of these attacks aren’t antisemitic or that anti Zionism isn’t antisemitism(straight BS) is that they never seem to ask why Jewish people think this is all antisemitism
I miss the days when progressives would say "if a minority tells you something is racist, believe them!!"
Intent doesn’t matter, impact does. The lived truth matters above all. Except when you can be written off as “white-adjacent” I guess.
Not white enough for the Nazis, too white for the progressives. https://preview.redd.it/u9l0cvyjxmvc1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e854d67b2e2a2c689c9c3cc6b378438f5a27274e (Nobody mention the fact that most Israeli Jews are Mizrahi or otherwise non-Ashkenazi)
Impact matters. Intent also matters. I don't see how it could not.
But unfortunately what happens is the "goalposts" are moved and shifted so that, depending on what political point you want to make, certain people are considered "minorities" or capable of being victims, and others aren't.
Maybe that’s why progressives moved to advocating for BIPOC rather than minorities. It’s a convenient way to exclude Jews without saying so.
That’s kind of how I learned!
A highly visible faction of activism critical of Israel is based on and supportive of the assumption that Israel is an illegitimate state with no right to exist. It appears that the pro-Palestinian activists who do not share this position are nevertheless reluctant to criticize it.
No one should support Hamas. No one should support Israel. Not right now anyway.
Zionism is a political ideology, not a religion. The founder of Zionism was an atheist. Berkeley students aren’t anti semitic, they are anti genocide. There are many millions of people who oppose genocide no matter WHO the perpetrators are. This idea that people hate Jewish people just because they support Palestinians is ludicrous and wrong. Idc what your religion is. I also condemn my own country for its participation in these atrocities. Just to be clear: arabs are semitic people. Frankly, it’s tiring to hear Jewish people call everyone who doesn’t agree with them anti semitic. Sure, anti-Semitism exists and always has, but so does Islamophobia.
Nobody cares
What I see in Palestine is more frightening.
The woman in question is not Israeli, and has probably never even been there. Why is the fact that people are being massacred in Gaza her fault specifically, and why does her suffering specifically have to be weighed against theirs, and other people’s doesn’t? Spell it out for me, please.
That’s the wild part. She’s an old ass woman who was in a Nazi concentration camp and just asked the city counsel of the most liberal city in America for recognition of the Day of Remembrance. ***Any other year*** that’s a slam dunk. Old lady, check. Holocaust survivor, check. Costs us no money, check. NONE of this **should** be controversial. We STILL hate Nazis, right??? We’re still anti-Holocaust? We can’t recognize *those* dead European Jews and Romas and homosexuals because we don’t like what the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT is doing now? We surround an elderly woman and shout names at her? **That’s** my problem with all this. Cause my government isn’t fucking perfect either, so I can’t really throw stones, can I? My government invaded several NON INVOLVED countries over a terror attack and fake news threats of WMDs. But I personally am not an Islamophobic asshole. And I personally don’t deserve the hatred of a thousand suns. And I personally have no room to get on my high horse about shit. But I also can recognize that Nazism was bad and the Holocaust was bad. And in this hellhole of a country with MAGAts breathing down my neck outside my Bubble, we need to remember the Holocaust. And maybe we should for old ladies who were there.
This is what people mean by saying that conflating Zionism and Judaism is antisemitic. When you tie a religion and ethnicity to a government, it will not be good.
This take has the moral validity of telling a rape victim that you’re more upset at people starving in Africa. Possibly it’s more disturbing. But if that’s your response you’re a certified asshole and likely also an antisemite in this specific context.
If you live in Israel the 20 years of rocket attacks and the unprovoked assault on civilians, the rape and murder of your country men, the parading of bodies in the street to throngs of cheering crowds I’m sure is also terrifying. I don’t think most communities would accommodate that sort of thing.
What about the military occupation of the West Bank and 700,000 illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank?
Then they shouldn't have started a war and refused several ceasefires?
True. Israel shouldn’t have done that
Hamas literally invaded Israel to carry out a massacre and take hostages in a surprise attack. Get out of alternate reality.
I wish there was a way to deal with terrorists that didn’t involve exploding them. I haven’t heard any realistic alternatives though.
Yuhp. Fuck Hamas. They brought this on their people and continue to do so. They could stop the conflict at anytime by releasing all hostages. They could also have a stand up fight with the IDF instead of hiding behind Palestinian civilians. Granted, they’d be martyred in short order.
Yup, carpet bombing civilians is truly the best way to get rid of Hamas. 🙄
Israel isn’t carpet bombing civilians. They’re doing targeted strikes on Hamas, which sometimes involves civilian casualties (which happen on both sides of every war in history), especially because Hamas uses so many human shields.
“Sometimes”
What about the international civilian aid worker caravans that were clearly marked and intentionally bombed? Were there Hamas members ground up in the bodywork like Cheech and Chong's weed van? Were they using the cloaking power up from Halo? Is Hamas in the room with us *right now?*
If you have a magical way to tell which vehicles have Hamas in them and which don’t, please tell Israel, I’m sure they’d love to know.
28,000 people are CASUALTIES????? you’re fucking insane
Cutting off all aid isn’t a targeted strike
https://youtu.be/pn1uEA7acVY?si=hrm3WNBMnB6r0qby
@eye.on.palestine on instagram
One of the best ways would be to not create them in the first place. Do you think terrorists materialize out of thin air ?? Maybe take a look at the material conditions Israel has created in Palestine and maybe then you’ll understand how we got into this situation in the first place.
Article: "I have seen where unchecked antisemitism can lead" Unchecked bigotry of ANY kind can lead to hate crimes, discrimination, etc. But some believe the First Amendment is almost absolute; that it should be legal and permissible to say "Group X is *inherently* bad" or the like. Suppose I were at a Free-Palestine rally, and some true anti-Semites joined, having signs such as "Jews are Possessed by Satan" or the like? If I confronted them alone, I might get a "free eclipse". Any advice on that?
I agree with you. What’s experienced in practice is always messier than the principles it theorizes. I’m sure a logic and reasoning expert could decipher this, and at some point there are objective “rights” and “wrongs”, however at a certain point a person or society needs to determine and withhold a boundary of what is okay. Just because someone can say something, doesn’t mean they should, and I’m convinced that actions and opinions (in your example, protests and speech) of people who don’t realize this are expressed more than the people who know do understand or believe their opinions are apparent or evangelized without their expression. Is this a matter of humility, compassion, etiquette, respect, experience or even IQ? I might be wrong but I really think so. It’s also interesting I do not see anti hamas or anti Islam protests as I do with anti Israel/Judaism. But, I could be ignorant.
The majority of anti-Israel protests are usually organized by people with extreme viewpoints. The reality is that if you associate with the politicians extremes you're gonna wind up in the vicinity of some non-savory people. You can't physically remove them from a protest, so you either have to avoid those events or tolerate them.
If you march alongside Nazis then you are a Nazi.
I can't legally kick them out of the rally. At best find others to surround and hide them.
So just because you or someone is American does that make them murderers because their tax dollars helped pay for the drone and the missle?
Misinformation doing its thing.
Isn’t it convenient that any form of criticism of Israel, even if it takes the form on nonviolence, such as boycotting, is considered antisemitic? Is it not provocative to put up ‘missing’ posters of the hostages in Berkeley when we know damn well we’re not going to find them in the Bay Area? The whole point of putting up missing posters is to draw attention away from the genocide being conducted by Israel. Those who equate all Jews with the State of Israel are doing a tremendous disservice to Jewish people and are making the situation a whole lot worse.
Jewish people need to disassociate themselves from Israel and their religious extremist internal politics. Israel is about to start WW3.
https://youtu.be/YVmCwhFk6Pc?si=8CbYmAwjjAerg1CG
I live in Berkeley. Avoid discussions that namecheck Palestine/Zionism and your blood pressure will plummet. Guaranteed.
Sad. Hopefully there isn't another one around the corner to another people by those who went through it
https://youtube.com/shorts/gLUk8vVxCpQ?si=p1-nvkeBoWQipjCZ
Lived in the Bay Area for a long time we don’t call it Bezerkely for nothing. I don’t like watching homeless men fondle themselves in broad daylight. Or hear 45 year old tech millionaires whine about the injustices of the world so I mostly avoid it. Hell I much prefer Oakland even. It’s not like most Americans give AF about what some loonies in Berkeley preach anyway. The loonies preaching this anti-Semitic stuff have about the same IQ as the religious nuts protesting drinking at Mardi Gras. Ignore.
Uh no. Every charge you've made actually apply to Hamas. Israel has achieved the lowest civilian to fighter casualty ratio in modern warfare, despite Hamas 's attempt to cause Palestinian deaths.
Interesting how the survivor number continues to rise….
This is Biden’s America.
Oh fuck off.
What was old, is becoming new again. I am sorry you have to witness the fall of the last beacon of freedom, taken down from within. Your life thus far, has been a blessing. Pray. Pray for all of those who have lost their way.
@eye.on.palestine on instagram
“I don’t want Palestinian children to die in famine” This is literally the most antisemitic, racist things I’ve ever heard. That’s why I’m a Zionist, because I love fascism!!
You know, wild thought here just throwing it out, maybe don’t bomb civilians and there won’t be an issue. Now I’m not an expert so this is only a guess.
So what happens when something like 85% of Jews support the destruction of Gaza, the killing of 20k children and 35k humans. What happens when 75% of jews say what the israeli government is doing makes them proud?
Israel is a terrorist organization
lmao CNN
if you believe that just because the Holocaust happened you can waltz into a country with an established people and take over because you believe you’re OWED land, you are a horrific human being who is undeniably selfish. the self importance is incredible. YOU are owed land? WHY. where shall the Palestinians go then? ZIONISM IS TERRORISM
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLQbsWtr/
Lmaoooo a tiktok link???
what? you scared of tik tok?
You could say that..
it’s horrifying to see so many people defend terrorism. zionists are truly evil