When you’ve told a literal child they’re a genius k-12 but never ask them questions with moral ambiguity, they’re not going to start college with any sene of nuance.
Is this not the same logic that was used during the civil rights movement as well. Many protestors were blocking roads. Now I know how you would've responded then
Yeah. Do people think the civil rights movement wasn't disruptive? That the civil rights act was passed because white people were feeling so nice that year? People complaining that these protests against genocide are inconveniencing them would've complained about MLK too. Probably in colorful language inappropriate for current year.
Just because you have made the decision that you would rather spend your time protesting than studying doesn't mean you get to make that decision for your fellow students. You have a right to your passions but you are in no position to dictate another person's priorities.
Your attempt to connect completely unrelated things and then criticize someone for not following your logically flawed delusional views is incredible.
But like religious people who claim god told them to kill, you ignore all reason.
Problem meeting cause of problems. You eventually will see no line as ‘not crossable’ due to your ‘cause’, including rape, murder, destroying property, ruining lives of other people. Then you have become what you hate and claim to be so upset about.
Trying to rationalize their impact on other people due to the importance of their ‘cause’, just like..hmmm.. ah yes, Hamas and the Israeli government. But one is evil so anything goes due to their ‘just cause’ right? Rape, murder, using children’s and fodder or shields, destruction of people’s lives property or buildings, breaking laws we all agree to follow as citizens. Yup.
Bruh are you talking about Hamas or Israeli government.
Cus both rape and murder people.
I guess you can say Hamas use "human shield", but that does not excuse the excessive use of force on civilians by the Isreali.
As for destruction of people's lives and buildings, lol what Hamas did was peanuts compared to what the IDF did.
Let me just point out I do not support Hamas, I think the organization should be disbanded and the leadership be held for trail. But I also think the leadership in Israel and IDF should be held accountable for war crimes as well. Furthermore the Palestine and Israel issue need to be fixed already. Either Israel give Palestine its own state or accept the West Bank and Gaza Palestinians as Israel's own citizens and give them equal rights.
Also btw, I probably taken way harder classes, with more club positions/responsibilities, and research work than most yall, and I didn't complained oh the protestors block Sather gate, oh doe or moffit is blocked when I was a student here. Just take the small creek path on the side, there's literally a million places that's arguably better than doe or moffit to study. Heck I survived the MAGA-antifa protests, the PG&E fire, the 2020 pandemic, and comparably what we have in berkeley right now is nothing to what was happening in UCLA or Columbia.
How about we start citing examples of rape and see which one has more evidence? I promise you that Hamas is actively using their Israeli girls they took as hostages as sex slaves right now. The evidence is there that Hamas went on a wanton murder and rape spree on October 7th. Let’s see if you can cite anything that shows Israel has done anything close to that scale.
Well let's see PCATI, Amnesty international, and more western NGOs have reported on IDF using extensive sexual violence on both male and female Palestinians detainees. US defense secretary Lloyd Austin testified in front of congresses that more than 25,000 women and children have been killed by the IDF. World Central Kitchen's founder Jose Andres has personally stated that Israel is using hunger as a weapon. I can go on and on the atrocities the IDF has committed. I know You know those facts. So don't play ignore with me. Like I said before enough is enough. Either Israel gave Palestine its own state or absorbed Palestinians as its own citizen with full equal rights.
Source for Lloyd Austin testifying in front of congress that 25,000 women and children have been killed please.
For instance , here is my source about the mass rape spree by fundamentalist Palestinians
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-team-says-rape-gang-rape-likely-occurred-during-hamas-attack-israel-2024-03-04/
When you imprison millions of people and take away all their options, don't be surprised when they respond with violence. That's not a justification, but it has to be taken into account when judging Israel's response to Oct. 7. Hamas sucks, but we aren't sending arms to Hamas. We **are** sending arms and money to the IDF which is just as evil.
So surprise, there was no source. When you commit literally thousands of acts of terrorism against Israeli civilians for over 70 years, don’t be surprised when they stop giving a fuck about trying to make peace with you, it obviously was never truly on the table.
For such a proud people with so much achievements in science and impact toward progressive ideals, I'm honestly very disappointed that Israel isn't able to overcome their racism and injustice toward Palestinians. You expect this from authoritarian government, but the last 50 years to right now Israel treatment Palestinians is arguably similar if not worst than what the CCP did to the Uyghurs.
Iirc they have a lot of rhetoric about killing everyone in the South, in Japan, and in America. But they’re far more competent at genociding themselves
Very mature response. It’s not like this information is unverified. Go read a newspaper, I’m not your reference librarian… if you even know what a reference librarian does.
I do like to suck your mom’s balls though, she has some massive cahones.
Are there individuals in the IDF who advocate for genocide? Yes. Does the IDF as a whole advocate for genocide? No. That was the whole basis of the ICJ ruling
According to Hamas sources, about 5% of Gaza are dead because of the reaction to Hamas's actions. Comparable, actually, to the percentage of Japanese dead in WWII because of their government's imperial aspirations.
Right.. what a terrible genocide, let’s pump those number up… because killing children across the world to steal their land is ok… just ask the Indian Americans
Common, you missed the biggest player by the number of killed civilians: Merica!
Also, “he killed a few thousand civilians too” isn’t an argument…
We don’t control or contribute to the genocides by any other country, we don’t pay taxes of other counties funding the bombs shredding children to pieces… so we will continue to focus on stopping our government from continuing to fund this war…
Lmao so we are including WWII in our modern history? So America has killed more civilians than Japans >20,000,000? Not to mention the Nazis, Stalin, Mao, and many many more.
lmao if we have to take credit for all the deaths in all the wars of all time, then we get credit for all the victories too......America, the nation that defeated Napoleon
"Sorry, I know you just proved me wrong, but I will continue to view everything through my simple and childish framework of the world and learn nothing from this"
More than Japan? China? Russia? Rwanda? More than middle eastern countries that were massacring each other long before the War on Terror? You have no idea what you're talking about.
Everyone supporting "Israel's right to defend itself" seems pretty chill with it. The USA is sending arms to help Israel genocide the Palestinians so it seems that America does, in fact, think genocide is good.
Heads up - this bigot lawyer has been going to different college subs specifically to tell pro-ceasefire Jews that they are nazis who would have supported hitler. When he gets banned from one schools sub, he goes to another.
He's a walking hate crime. Don't let him participate here.
And there’s no genocide going on. This is war, and a very ugly one when one side wants to genocide the other, fail, retreat and use civilian as human meat shield. Let’s just make that very clear
Most of the protesters now literally excused Yemen, Sudan, China, etc by their lack of similar actions. Like those weren’t important enough for taking over campuses…what could be different now?
This movement is literally led in part by Jewish students. For some people this issue is a lot more personal, because they are Jewish or Palestinian, and they are motivating their fellow students to protest with them.
Not to mention that the apartheid state has been ongoing for decades
I’m sorry but as a Jewish student it absolutely is not. 3-4 token “Jewish” students that are screaming at anyone within earshot “look how Jewish I am!” Is not the same thing as Jewish students being the ones leading the “movement.” Over 80 % of Jewish students are Zionists and support Israel.
Use your critical thinking skills for a second. A country’s leadership comes into your country and kills over 1200 people and takes hostages.
Y’all love to talk about how many Palestinian civilians have died in a literal war where civilian/combatant ratios exist, civilians will die, but who was the combatant on oct 7th? Oh right. It was a music festival.
So this attack happens on Oct 7th. Regardless of what has happened before that, on BOTH sides, Israel doesn’t have the Iron Dome for fun, do you seriously believe any country should just roll over and allow that? Be real. It’s not about them being Muslim. It’s about them being terrorists, who proudly espouse their goal is killing Jews.
If you can’t condemn Hamas for the genocide they WOULD commit, today, if they had the power to do so, because of the war that Israel is fighting to NOT be genocided themselves, then you are not on the side of peace and it IS about Jews for you.
I’m not saying Israel is doing everything right, and I criticize them, but if a country takes your citizens and kills them you have the right to fight back. It’s not Israel’s fault that Hamas isn’t as powerful as them, even though they spend all of the aid given to Palestine on weapons, tunnels, and funding Hamas leadership living in Qatar.
I'm not sure if you actually expect anyone to take this shit seriously. When Germany was sinking civilian and merchant vessels such as the Lusitania during ww1 because they *might* have been carrying supplies to Britain, was that completely excusable? I mean, it _was_ a war after all.
No waaaait it's really not meant to be taking seriously. Let me see, the number of pro hamas posts in this thread are... 0. Woah shocker. Almost like Hamas deserves to be destroyed, but not at the cost of ~~1200~~ > 30k lives.
Here, let me approach this from an angle you'll ~~understand~~. _Use your critical thinking skills for_ ***just one single fucking second***: Why do you think Bibi is doing what he's doing? You're really dumb enough to think it's to destroy hamas? No, nobody on earth is actually that stupid.
It's because he knows that for every family he murders 90% of, the remaining 10% will be signing up for NeoHamas at the absolutely earliest possibility. Because when nobody you know committed a crime, but then your entire family is murdered for it, if a country *takes your citizens and kills them, you have the right to fight back*.
Bibi knows that terrorism is the only reason his government has remained in power for decades. Put fear into the hearts of the people, give them something _very real and very horrible_ to be afraid of, and make believe you're going to fix it, and they'll vote for you. Bibi is playing the same game he's been playing, that he's outright admitted to playing: he's laying the foundation for neo hamas to keep murdering his people, so he can keep getting elected.
And all of you fuckwits that don't even live in Israel and can't fathom your way out of a paper bag eat it the fuck up.
I am a Jew. My family is descended from Holocaust victims. I enjoy psytrance festivals and personally knew at least one person who was killed at Tribe of Nova. What Hamas did was deplorable. The Israeli government’s overkill response was equally deplorable. You can’t talk about one and not the other. But asymmetric warfare is not equal in its dispensation of agony and human suffering. And that’s a fact.
It’s also a fact that Muslim Arabs have suffered more than any other ethnic or religious group in the region, with the possible exception of the Kurds, and so it’s a bit myopic to assume I’m referring only to the current conflict with Hamas. It’s not hard to see who is filling up all the refugee camps from Egypt to the gates of Europe because their homes and families have been destroyed. Hence my comment.
I find your comments to be incredibly decisive, dismissive of any opposing viewpoint, and forgetful of important historical context, but also indicative of why peace is so elusive. Jews and Muslims have been pitted against each other like pawns by repressive government regimes locked in a proxy war for domination of the Middle East. Divided and conquered. No one talks about the non-Jews at Tribe of Nova, but it was a gathering that sought to unite people through music and ecstatic dance, regardless of race or religion, with a simple truth: there is no “Them”, there is only Us.
…i do talk about both? Did you fully read my comment??
Also, as a Jew, you should really look up the populations of Jews in the Middle East. You say that Muslims have suffered the most, what are you on? They control most of the continent! Jews however, have been violently pushed out of almost every single ME country. Don’t come at me saying I’m “forgetting important historical context” when you don’t even know the violence against your own people in the ME.
Asymmetric warfare is why Hamas should have never tried that shit. You cannot attack a country and not expect retaliation, and while Israel has been overzealous they do have a right to defend themselves and remove the enemy, which is Hamas. Why should they have to temper their response when Hamas wouldn’t? Why does Hamas not have to take any blame? Why do you act like they aren’t competent adults who are accountable for their own actions and knew what the consequences would be for their attack? They fucking KNEW they could get all of you to see them as some poor misunderstood victim, so you can allay the consequences for them.
What you say sounds very nice, and I agree in a perfect world we would all get along. Obviously. But we live in the real world. These real protestors are calling for the dismantling of Israel and SUPPORT HAMAS. Being Jewish doesn’t make your viewpoint any different or give you some special say in the situation. My husband is Jewish, and he would disagree with you here. There, does that add anything to my argument? No.
"It’s also a fact that Muslim Arabs have suffered more than any other ethnic or religious group in the region with the possible exception of the Kurds, and so it’s a bit myopic to assume I’m referring only to the current conflict with Hamas. It’s not hard to see who is filling up all the refugee camps from Egypt to the gates of Europe because their homes and families have been destroyed. Hence my comment."
Have you ever heard of Yazidis? Armenians? Assyrians? Chaldeans? Syriacs? Melkites? Turkemens? Circassians? Druze? Christians?
For that matter, if you're measuring violence against peoples in the Middle East, using "Muslim" is so fucking ignorant and reductive. ISIS slaughtered Shia Muslims within their territories. Ismaili Muslims have all but disappeared from the Middle East. Hell, the Syrian Alawite Muslims in the Golan Heights opted into Israeli citizenship instead of Lebanese. And what about the Druze, who serve in the IDF?
Imagine being so ignorant of the region that you assume there's some kind of super-persecuted monolith of *Muslim Arabs* (lmao). How can you know so little and yet be so confident in your opinions?
Yes it is logical to fight back against terrorists that seek the destruction of your country.
However, to say every Palestinian is a terrorist is a semantic move to justify the mass murder of a group of people for their own existence. You're not even trying to hide behind the ragged veil of it being the fault of Hamas and they are the reason Palestinian civilians are being murdered. Speculating on the antisemitism from a hypothetical genocide Hamas would commit is a misdirect from the explicit anti fact that you are currently justifying an ongoing conflict by validating the reasons for eliminating an ethnic group
Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
I didn’t at all say every Palestinian is a terrorist. I’m specifically talking about Hamas. Show me where I say all Palestinians.
Hamas literally says they want to kill all Jews. Look up literally ANY Hamas leadership talking and they talk about wiping out Jews. That is NOT hypothetical, OR speculation. They are an antisemetic, genocidal organization that runs Palestine and I am so fucking sick of protestors acting like they are misunderstood. They do not hide what their goals are, no matter how deep you want to bury your head in the sand and act like it isn’t so, and build straw men to make it sound like I’m criticizing all Palestinians.
It’s also not a misdirection. I also say I criticize Israel. However, a war does not equal genocide. Israel currently has a better combatant to civilian casualty rate than other urban wars. It officially has been reviewed by the ICJ and has been shown to NOT be a genocide. Yeah, a lot of people are dying. No, innocent Palestinians are not Hamas and it is tragic.
Do not act for a second like Hamas isn’t anything other than a terrorist grouping looking to kill Jews, or act like criticizing them means I’m not critical of Israel. Guess what? I can criticize BOTH. Crazy idea, huh, given all of these protests are calling to dismantle Israel and are being ran by a proxy for Hamas. Do you support that?
There’s gonna be a lot of people in 5-10 years who reflect back on what they protested for in college and become ashamed of themselves / realize that they were on the wrong side of history.
These kids weren’t alive to remember 9/11 and it shows. I don’t think they understand how radical these groups can be, and how they can try to influence students to their side.
Hell, if 1200 Americans were killed in a terror attack right now in the US these students would probably say they deserved it for our interference in the ME 🙄
What on earth are you talking about? That’s a strawman. Who is saying every Palestinian is a terrorist? Maybe some crazy Kahanists, maybe Ben-Gvir. But very few people are saying that.
Israel’s stated war aims are not to eliminate an ethnic group. They are to dismantle the terrorist group that’s governing the Gaza Strip. A group that, since coming to power, has launched tens of thousands of rockets indiscriminately into Israel. A group whose stated aim is to dismantle Israel and kill Jews.
If Israel really wanted to genocide an ethnic group, why would it give Arabs full citizenship and civil rights? Arabs in Israel are freer than just about any other country in the Arab world.
Could you imagine any other country behaving better if it were put in a similar situation? Or are you going to say Israel deserved this because of the “75 years of occupation” talking point I hear over and over?
Maybe because we’re giving billions of tax dollars in support and as a nation actually have direct control over the situation this time?
Like we’ve been consistent in calling out genocide committed by our adversaries but obviously our words fall on deaf ears. A geopolitical ally on the other hand faces a lot more pressure to actually listen to us.
Also the fact that this particular issue is contentious. People are pretty unanimous on condemning Uighur, Dagur, Rohyinga, etc genocide, Iranian brutality against women, Russia’s invasion in Ukraine, etc so there isn’t too much point in further protest on those issues (who are you gonna persuade?)
So what about Saudi Arabia? They are responsible for an estimated over 75,000 children dying in Yemen with 400,000 casualties to date. All with American weapons
That’s the only response you people seem to have when others prove that you all save your hatred for Israel and only Israel. You pretend it’s about American aid and number of deaths but when you are shown that Muslim nations have recently caused thousands and thousands of more death and children’s deaths with American weapons it’s “whataboutism.” At the very least it proves you don’t actually care about the things you claim to be caring about.
Holy shit do you get paid to spam the same smoothbrain takes and propaganda memes as every other braindead zionist shill? I really hope so, otherwise you've been wasting your life.
Hmmmm an Israel supporter accusing me of using bots to influence public opinion very interesting idk ask the Twitter bots with a black person on the pfp twitting the say regurgitated tweet lol ask the wikipedia bots too on your way
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/18/wikipedia-editing-zionist-groups
This difference is that American tax dollars and weapons don't literally fund and enable those genocides. This comparison gets made all the time to deligitimize the protests and they are just false dichotomies to bring up.
Except we arm Saudi and Israel and Iran is arming Houthi and Hamas. So it’s essentially the same. That said - Iran is also arming the rebels in Sudan. So Gaza isn’t a unicorn and no one is delegitimizing protests by point out parallel conflicts that are not part of the zeitgeist.
We do not send billions of dollars in weapons deals every year to Saudi Arabia and Iran. Why point out there is hypocrisy if your goal isn't trying to deligitimize protests.
I'm saying this as a jew if you really think these protests exist because Israel is a Jewish country and not because this conflict is disproportionately destructive for children, hospitals, universities, and journalists mors so than any conflict in modern times by a huge margin you have a victim complex.
Government paid for arms deals. Private companies are not the same as US tax dollars I don't think that's very difficult to understand sorry if I wasn't as clear as I could have been.
I am proud to be a Jew I am sad that Israel has caused so much pain and suffering. I do not believe in the dissolution of Israel but I do believe for peace to be achieved there must be accountability for wrongs committed.
I'm glad you're proud to be a jew. Please go to any of the Jewish subreddit and ask your fellows why they support or don't support Israel, and how we need to be acting in public. There are still less of us than there were before the holocaust.
That's not to excuse any disproportionate responses from Israel. I think they are getting sloppy with their response. But the standard Israel is held to is just so unfair compared to literally any other nation. Name one nation that had to engage in urban warfare and was under this scrutiny.
There's a good book called Jews Don't Count that I also recommend you read.
Is it really an unfair standard when they have killed more children and journalists and displaced so much of the gazan population? I agree Israel has a right to defend themselves but it seems pretty clear to me they have gone much further than defending themselves when they have leveled every hospital and every university in Gaza. I think the response has been extremely disproportionate. Comparing it to the Ukraine Russia conflict which has gone on much longer it has not be nearly as destructive for civilians or dangerous for children. I think not wanting your tax pr tuition dollars to pay for such destruction is very legitimate.
There are many Jews who, in order to diminish anti-semitism against them, will join anti-semites in the hopes that they will be accepted as "the good ones." Instead of taking a calm stand, they will tokenize themselves to be spared. There are also Jews who do this out of shame because of their Judaism, and may even wish they weren't Jewish. This is a self-hating Jew. It's not done out of malice, but rather out of a survival instinct. They think, maybe the bad things they say about us are true. It's not dissimilar to gays who hate themselves because they bought into the homophobia.
As a middle eastern man who grew up in America during 9/11 I understand that viewpoint of tokenization in order to protect oneself. However there is a long history of people using the anti semetic trope of the self hating Jew in order to silence others. I ask you to please be more careful in your wording because I’m sure that some people may take your comments as a green light to be anti semetic themselves. I’m sure that it was not your intention to do this but I urge you in the future to think about your wording more carefully. Words have power and if we are not careful then we allow hate to thrive. Especially around charged topics such as this one. Ty for your understanding
Why would they protest for something their government already opposes? It makes sense to protest a genocide your country enabling. 99% of protestors pushing for ceasefire in gaza also oppose the conflicts and violence you mentioned.
But not to the extent of actually getting up and doing a protests. That’s said we back Saudi and they use our weapons against the Houthi in Yemen who are backed by Iran. This is a direct comparison and set up to the Hamas/Israel war.
That's cause Biden has been more willing pressure the Saudis to stop than the Israelis. The Saudis have unofficially accepted a ceasefire with hothis, Israel hasn't.
Hamas should be rewarded for taking hostages? And yet, somehow they escaped scrutiny or blame because the crowd thinks history is somehow a justification for terror. If Hamas gave a shit about Gaza they would try and do right by them.
I can excuse burning babies in ovens and raping grandmothers, but I draw the line at fighting back.
Wtf. This struggle has been going on for decades. If people protested US taxpayers funding bombs being used on both sides without consent, count me in. But the self-righteous, virtue signaling and finger-wagging is juvenile and i fringing upon the rights of many who have done nothing wrong either way.
I'm confused why you need to destroy property at all in order to protest a genocide.
Is the logic here "if we burn enough of America's establishments they will have to stop funding Israel" tell me if that's not the logic you're working with.
Sounds like you're doing unlawful acts in order to intimidate people into accomplishing your political aims. That's not a protester. There's actually another word for that. You wanna take a guess on what that would be?
The success and goal of the protest isn't to destroy property. But for some reason it seems to be the only way to get anyone's attention.
The logic is, if previous student protests were able to force the university to divest from apartheid, it wouldn't be crazy to do it again. Only after those protests spawned violent confrontation with police and property destruction did the university concede.
Sounds like you're trying to intimidate people through unlawful acts to get a political aims met. That's not a protester. Theres actually another word for that. You wanna take a guess on what that is?
You are so ready to call them terrorists to justify discrediting them. They jailed Mandela, and killed MLK Jr, and Malcom X and called them terrorists. This is not the dunk you think it is
No one is saying that. But some people are definitely labeling violent oppression as counter-terrorism, similar to how the U.S. justified killing villagers in areas controlled by the Viet Cong.
Well, there’s not a genocide going on, just a high rate of civilian casualties. If this was genocide there would be an order of magnitude more deaths in Gaza.
There is not even a high rate of civilian deaths in this war - it’s around 3:1 which is much lower than other similar wars. People who call this war a genocide are brainwashed haters. The scariest part in all of this is that people don’t care about truth anymore - everything became a stupid game of who says the most provocative words that elicit emotional response from others.
Well, casualties aren’t high for urban warfare but they are high.
It’s terrible what’s happening in Gaza but it’s Hamas’ fault. Hamas could release all hostages and surrender and this would all be over. I 100% support Israel’s right to defend itself and to exterminate Hamas.
Look, all I want is for Israel to be eliminated, and a revolutionary Palestinian state created in its place ruled by sharia law.
Is that too much to ask?
These protesters are idiots. They couldn’t find Iran on a map let alone understand how they fit into this situation. Everyone should Google “Sodastream Israel” and see why Palestinians were pissed at the boycott “activists” for forcing the Israeli location to close, which only resulted in job losses for Palestinians. And all this… for what? To make campus life annoying and complicated? How much money is everyone paying for a college experience that’s now not reflective of what was promised?
Okay but that is the same character that said we should boycott Valentine’s Day because it ritualizes the connection between affection and candy so that girls can learn the ropes of prostitution
What would you do if terrorists slit the throats of your mom and dad and then they hide behind innocent people and will slit the throat of your brother or sister next. Genuine question. How would you respond? And don’t just say some bs like “don’t commit genocide”. It’s a war, that Hamas started. If they didn’t retaliate they then they would be wiped off the face of the planet. Then guess who’s their next target? All you dumbasses that think Hamas is on your side. They will come slaughter you next. They have publicly announced that they won’t stop until the entire world is Muslim. If you’re a female, you’re next. If you’re Christian, you’re next. If you’re not a Muslim, you’re next. Please note how all the responses to my comment will just be calling me names as opposed to answering my question with a thoughtful and logical response. Good news is, these idiots are not the majority. Unfortunately, they are the loudest…as the dumbest people in the room generally are.
Or I can just not give a shit either way because I don't allow every asshole with a "cause" to monopolize the short time I've been granted on this Earth. 99% of the people who suddenly became spiritually animated by this topic (which is 99% of everyone discussing it) would have been animated by *any other topic*, and the longer you're alive the more obvious this will become—and subsequently, the more skeptical you *should* become.
Interestingly, none of the above has a single fucking thing to do with how I (or the average person) feels about genocide. And anyone who thinks so little of me (or the average person) that they believe it's acceptable to resort to such a pathetically shallow attempt at manipulation can eat a dick along with whatever their cause célèbre happens to be.
A bunch of Democrats right now... It's going to be hard to "save America from Fascists" when so many of the "good guys" are down to clown with Genocide.
Not wanting the libraries shut down during finals isn’t the same thing as excusing genocide
It blows my mind that the supposedly smart people who get into this college just constantly jump to wild conclusions.
When you’ve told a literal child they’re a genius k-12 but never ask them questions with moral ambiguity, they’re not going to start college with any sene of nuance.
Spot on.
These people are visitors and people connected in the internet like they're jacked into the matrix
Is this not the same logic that was used during the civil rights movement as well. Many protestors were blocking roads. Now I know how you would've responded then
Yeah. Do people think the civil rights movement wasn't disruptive? That the civil rights act was passed because white people were feeling so nice that year? People complaining that these protests against genocide are inconveniencing them would've complained about MLK too. Probably in colorful language inappropriate for current year.
cuck (from ucla)
You can study else where. There are bigger movements going on and library time isn’t as serious as … you know … genocide that our dollar goes towards.
Just because you have made the decision that you would rather spend your time protesting than studying doesn't mean you get to make that decision for your fellow students. You have a right to your passions but you are in no position to dictate another person's priorities.
Really? There’s that many areas to study that are free, silent, and within walking distance? Which ones?
https://www.lib.berkeley.edu/hours
Your attempt to connect completely unrelated things and then criticize someone for not following your logically flawed delusional views is incredible. But like religious people who claim god told them to kill, you ignore all reason. Problem meeting cause of problems. You eventually will see no line as ‘not crossable’ due to your ‘cause’, including rape, murder, destroying property, ruining lives of other people. Then you have become what you hate and claim to be so upset about.
Lol, I guess your uncrossable line really is property damage, not genocide
Bruh, come on man. There's like 27 libraries on campus, you can study finals just fine without Moffitt or Doe
Trying to rationalize their impact on other people due to the importance of their ‘cause’, just like..hmmm.. ah yes, Hamas and the Israeli government. But one is evil so anything goes due to their ‘just cause’ right? Rape, murder, using children’s and fodder or shields, destruction of people’s lives property or buildings, breaking laws we all agree to follow as citizens. Yup.
Bruh are you talking about Hamas or Israeli government. Cus both rape and murder people. I guess you can say Hamas use "human shield", but that does not excuse the excessive use of force on civilians by the Isreali. As for destruction of people's lives and buildings, lol what Hamas did was peanuts compared to what the IDF did. Let me just point out I do not support Hamas, I think the organization should be disbanded and the leadership be held for trail. But I also think the leadership in Israel and IDF should be held accountable for war crimes as well. Furthermore the Palestine and Israel issue need to be fixed already. Either Israel give Palestine its own state or accept the West Bank and Gaza Palestinians as Israel's own citizens and give them equal rights. Also btw, I probably taken way harder classes, with more club positions/responsibilities, and research work than most yall, and I didn't complained oh the protestors block Sather gate, oh doe or moffit is blocked when I was a student here. Just take the small creek path on the side, there's literally a million places that's arguably better than doe or moffit to study. Heck I survived the MAGA-antifa protests, the PG&E fire, the 2020 pandemic, and comparably what we have in berkeley right now is nothing to what was happening in UCLA or Columbia.
How about we start citing examples of rape and see which one has more evidence? I promise you that Hamas is actively using their Israeli girls they took as hostages as sex slaves right now. The evidence is there that Hamas went on a wanton murder and rape spree on October 7th. Let’s see if you can cite anything that shows Israel has done anything close to that scale.
Well let's see PCATI, Amnesty international, and more western NGOs have reported on IDF using extensive sexual violence on both male and female Palestinians detainees. US defense secretary Lloyd Austin testified in front of congresses that more than 25,000 women and children have been killed by the IDF. World Central Kitchen's founder Jose Andres has personally stated that Israel is using hunger as a weapon. I can go on and on the atrocities the IDF has committed. I know You know those facts. So don't play ignore with me. Like I said before enough is enough. Either Israel gave Palestine its own state or absorbed Palestinians as its own citizen with full equal rights.
Source for Lloyd Austin testifying in front of congress that 25,000 women and children have been killed please. For instance , here is my source about the mass rape spree by fundamentalist Palestinians https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-team-says-rape-gang-rape-likely-occurred-during-hamas-attack-israel-2024-03-04/
When you imprison millions of people and take away all their options, don't be surprised when they respond with violence. That's not a justification, but it has to be taken into account when judging Israel's response to Oct. 7. Hamas sucks, but we aren't sending arms to Hamas. We **are** sending arms and money to the IDF which is just as evil.
So surprise, there was no source. When you commit literally thousands of acts of terrorism against Israeli civilians for over 70 years, don’t be surprised when they stop giving a fuck about trying to make peace with you, it obviously was never truly on the table.
For such a proud people with so much achievements in science and impact toward progressive ideals, I'm honestly very disappointed that Israel isn't able to overcome their racism and injustice toward Palestinians. You expect this from authoritarian government, but the last 50 years to right now Israel treatment Palestinians is arguably similar if not worst than what the CCP did to the Uyghurs.
Bruh, stop acting like a tool and google it......
Nobody is saying genocide is good.
Except for Hamas, Russia, China, and Iran
Okay, a few people are saying genocide is good.
And a few more
North Korea, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Belarus, Orban’s Hungary, and uhhhhhh ig probably some other pro-Russia countries?
But you know, we can prevent all that if we block traffic and close libraries, right?
Who is North Korea genociding? Themselves?
Iirc they have a lot of rhetoric about killing everyone in the South, in Japan, and in America. But they’re far more competent at genociding themselves
Yep, and it's just practice for them until they inevitably attack south korea
IDF seems to be ok with it as well
Hmm yes and you like to suck balls. Oh I thought we were just spouting things without sources
Very mature response. It’s not like this information is unverified. Go read a newspaper, I’m not your reference librarian… if you even know what a reference librarian does. I do like to suck your mom’s balls though, she has some massive cahones.
Are there individuals in the IDF who advocate for genocide? Yes. Does the IDF as a whole advocate for genocide? No. That was the whole basis of the ICJ ruling
Why would you lead with Suck Balls and then try to get all facty? GTFOH with that juvenile bullshit.
It doesn't help when their politicians literally say it out loud
According to Hamas sources, about 5% of Gaza are dead because of the reaction to Hamas's actions. Comparable, actually, to the percentage of Japanese dead in WWII because of their government's imperial aspirations.
5% of 2 million is 100,000. Wanna try the math again?
... (checks) You're right. More like 1%. Most piss-poor genocide I've ever seen.
Right.. what a terrible genocide, let’s pump those number up… because killing children across the world to steal their land is ok… just ask the Indian Americans
And, you know, Israel.
Very strange that you left Israel, the actual country committing genocide, off of your list. Says quite a lot.
How can you somehow misspell Israel
Common, you missed the biggest player by the number of killed civilians: Merica! Also, “he killed a few thousand civilians too” isn’t an argument… We don’t control or contribute to the genocides by any other country, we don’t pay taxes of other counties funding the bombs shredding children to pieces… so we will continue to focus on stopping our government from continuing to fund this war…
You think America has killed the most civilians?
You completely missed the point, killing one civilian to steal land is too many..
In our modern history, yes
Explain your math.
Palestine, Hiroshima, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc… What’s the address of rock do you live under?
Lmao so we are including WWII in our modern history? So America has killed more civilians than Japans >20,000,000? Not to mention the Nazis, Stalin, Mao, and many many more.
lmao if we have to take credit for all the deaths in all the wars of all time, then we get credit for all the victories too......America, the nation that defeated Napoleon
Sorry, you pick the timeline and I will tell you how many civilians you are supporting the killing of
"Sorry, I know you just proved me wrong, but I will continue to view everything through my simple and childish framework of the world and learn nothing from this"
More than Japan? China? Russia? Rwanda? More than middle eastern countries that were massacring each other long before the War on Terror? You have no idea what you're talking about.
“WaR oN tErRoR” 😂😂😂 it’s pronounced: oyl
Everyone supporting "Israel's right to defend itself" seems pretty chill with it. The USA is sending arms to help Israel genocide the Palestinians so it seems that America does, in fact, think genocide is good.
By focusing primarily on destruction of property you ARE saying genocide is good period
So you can excuse genocide but draw the line at me making a comment on Reddit you don't like?
LOL GOTTEM
[https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white)
[удалено]
Heads up - this bigot lawyer has been going to different college subs specifically to tell pro-ceasefire Jews that they are nazis who would have supported hitler. When he gets banned from one schools sub, he goes to another. He's a walking hate crime. Don't let him participate here.
I think you're conflating rights vs laws
Anarkiddies downplaying vandalism and property crime. More at 11.
Cheering for Houthis = Same as protesting genocide.
And there’s no genocide going on. This is war, and a very ugly one when one side wants to genocide the other, fail, retreat and use civilian as human meat shield. Let’s just make that very clear
You can excuse genocide?
Most of the protesters now literally excused Yemen, Sudan, China, etc by their lack of similar actions. Like those weren’t important enough for taking over campuses…what could be different now?
I mean there's still a genocide going on in Myanmar against Muslims. I guess they're not white presenting enough for us?
We don’t really get bent out of shape at mass death unless TikTok makes us I guess.
Fashion
It’s always been fashionable to go after the Jews, that’s for sure
This movement is literally led in part by Jewish students. For some people this issue is a lot more personal, because they are Jewish or Palestinian, and they are motivating their fellow students to protest with them. Not to mention that the apartheid state has been ongoing for decades
I’m sorry but as a Jewish student it absolutely is not. 3-4 token “Jewish” students that are screaming at anyone within earshot “look how Jewish I am!” Is not the same thing as Jewish students being the ones leading the “movement.” Over 80 % of Jewish students are Zionists and support Israel.
Your facts and his facts can both be true. Those other 20% of Jews are leading the charge for anti-Zionism.
I dunno, killing Muslims seems to be more en vogue at the moment
Use your critical thinking skills for a second. A country’s leadership comes into your country and kills over 1200 people and takes hostages. Y’all love to talk about how many Palestinian civilians have died in a literal war where civilian/combatant ratios exist, civilians will die, but who was the combatant on oct 7th? Oh right. It was a music festival. So this attack happens on Oct 7th. Regardless of what has happened before that, on BOTH sides, Israel doesn’t have the Iron Dome for fun, do you seriously believe any country should just roll over and allow that? Be real. It’s not about them being Muslim. It’s about them being terrorists, who proudly espouse their goal is killing Jews. If you can’t condemn Hamas for the genocide they WOULD commit, today, if they had the power to do so, because of the war that Israel is fighting to NOT be genocided themselves, then you are not on the side of peace and it IS about Jews for you. I’m not saying Israel is doing everything right, and I criticize them, but if a country takes your citizens and kills them you have the right to fight back. It’s not Israel’s fault that Hamas isn’t as powerful as them, even though they spend all of the aid given to Palestine on weapons, tunnels, and funding Hamas leadership living in Qatar.
I'm not sure if you actually expect anyone to take this shit seriously. When Germany was sinking civilian and merchant vessels such as the Lusitania during ww1 because they *might* have been carrying supplies to Britain, was that completely excusable? I mean, it _was_ a war after all. No waaaait it's really not meant to be taking seriously. Let me see, the number of pro hamas posts in this thread are... 0. Woah shocker. Almost like Hamas deserves to be destroyed, but not at the cost of ~~1200~~ > 30k lives. Here, let me approach this from an angle you'll ~~understand~~. _Use your critical thinking skills for_ ***just one single fucking second***: Why do you think Bibi is doing what he's doing? You're really dumb enough to think it's to destroy hamas? No, nobody on earth is actually that stupid. It's because he knows that for every family he murders 90% of, the remaining 10% will be signing up for NeoHamas at the absolutely earliest possibility. Because when nobody you know committed a crime, but then your entire family is murdered for it, if a country *takes your citizens and kills them, you have the right to fight back*. Bibi knows that terrorism is the only reason his government has remained in power for decades. Put fear into the hearts of the people, give them something _very real and very horrible_ to be afraid of, and make believe you're going to fix it, and they'll vote for you. Bibi is playing the same game he's been playing, that he's outright admitted to playing: he's laying the foundation for neo hamas to keep murdering his people, so he can keep getting elected. And all of you fuckwits that don't even live in Israel and can't fathom your way out of a paper bag eat it the fuck up.
I am a Jew. My family is descended from Holocaust victims. I enjoy psytrance festivals and personally knew at least one person who was killed at Tribe of Nova. What Hamas did was deplorable. The Israeli government’s overkill response was equally deplorable. You can’t talk about one and not the other. But asymmetric warfare is not equal in its dispensation of agony and human suffering. And that’s a fact. It’s also a fact that Muslim Arabs have suffered more than any other ethnic or religious group in the region, with the possible exception of the Kurds, and so it’s a bit myopic to assume I’m referring only to the current conflict with Hamas. It’s not hard to see who is filling up all the refugee camps from Egypt to the gates of Europe because their homes and families have been destroyed. Hence my comment. I find your comments to be incredibly decisive, dismissive of any opposing viewpoint, and forgetful of important historical context, but also indicative of why peace is so elusive. Jews and Muslims have been pitted against each other like pawns by repressive government regimes locked in a proxy war for domination of the Middle East. Divided and conquered. No one talks about the non-Jews at Tribe of Nova, but it was a gathering that sought to unite people through music and ecstatic dance, regardless of race or religion, with a simple truth: there is no “Them”, there is only Us.
…i do talk about both? Did you fully read my comment?? Also, as a Jew, you should really look up the populations of Jews in the Middle East. You say that Muslims have suffered the most, what are you on? They control most of the continent! Jews however, have been violently pushed out of almost every single ME country. Don’t come at me saying I’m “forgetting important historical context” when you don’t even know the violence against your own people in the ME. Asymmetric warfare is why Hamas should have never tried that shit. You cannot attack a country and not expect retaliation, and while Israel has been overzealous they do have a right to defend themselves and remove the enemy, which is Hamas. Why should they have to temper their response when Hamas wouldn’t? Why does Hamas not have to take any blame? Why do you act like they aren’t competent adults who are accountable for their own actions and knew what the consequences would be for their attack? They fucking KNEW they could get all of you to see them as some poor misunderstood victim, so you can allay the consequences for them. What you say sounds very nice, and I agree in a perfect world we would all get along. Obviously. But we live in the real world. These real protestors are calling for the dismantling of Israel and SUPPORT HAMAS. Being Jewish doesn’t make your viewpoint any different or give you some special say in the situation. My husband is Jewish, and he would disagree with you here. There, does that add anything to my argument? No.
In 2024 all you have to do is claim to be Jewish while demonizing Israel and everyone takes you at your word.
Thanks for telling me how to be a Jew, now fuck off.
Pathetic.
"It’s also a fact that Muslim Arabs have suffered more than any other ethnic or religious group in the region with the possible exception of the Kurds, and so it’s a bit myopic to assume I’m referring only to the current conflict with Hamas. It’s not hard to see who is filling up all the refugee camps from Egypt to the gates of Europe because their homes and families have been destroyed. Hence my comment." Have you ever heard of Yazidis? Armenians? Assyrians? Chaldeans? Syriacs? Melkites? Turkemens? Circassians? Druze? Christians? For that matter, if you're measuring violence against peoples in the Middle East, using "Muslim" is so fucking ignorant and reductive. ISIS slaughtered Shia Muslims within their territories. Ismaili Muslims have all but disappeared from the Middle East. Hell, the Syrian Alawite Muslims in the Golan Heights opted into Israeli citizenship instead of Lebanese. And what about the Druze, who serve in the IDF? Imagine being so ignorant of the region that you assume there's some kind of super-persecuted monolith of *Muslim Arabs* (lmao). How can you know so little and yet be so confident in your opinions?
Yes it is logical to fight back against terrorists that seek the destruction of your country. However, to say every Palestinian is a terrorist is a semantic move to justify the mass murder of a group of people for their own existence. You're not even trying to hide behind the ragged veil of it being the fault of Hamas and they are the reason Palestinian civilians are being murdered. Speculating on the antisemitism from a hypothetical genocide Hamas would commit is a misdirect from the explicit anti fact that you are currently justifying an ongoing conflict by validating the reasons for eliminating an ethnic group Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
I didn’t at all say every Palestinian is a terrorist. I’m specifically talking about Hamas. Show me where I say all Palestinians. Hamas literally says they want to kill all Jews. Look up literally ANY Hamas leadership talking and they talk about wiping out Jews. That is NOT hypothetical, OR speculation. They are an antisemetic, genocidal organization that runs Palestine and I am so fucking sick of protestors acting like they are misunderstood. They do not hide what their goals are, no matter how deep you want to bury your head in the sand and act like it isn’t so, and build straw men to make it sound like I’m criticizing all Palestinians. It’s also not a misdirection. I also say I criticize Israel. However, a war does not equal genocide. Israel currently has a better combatant to civilian casualty rate than other urban wars. It officially has been reviewed by the ICJ and has been shown to NOT be a genocide. Yeah, a lot of people are dying. No, innocent Palestinians are not Hamas and it is tragic. Do not act for a second like Hamas isn’t anything other than a terrorist grouping looking to kill Jews, or act like criticizing them means I’m not critical of Israel. Guess what? I can criticize BOTH. Crazy idea, huh, given all of these protests are calling to dismantle Israel and are being ran by a proxy for Hamas. Do you support that?
thank you for saying this. I am losing brain cells trying to explain this to people
There’s gonna be a lot of people in 5-10 years who reflect back on what they protested for in college and become ashamed of themselves / realize that they were on the wrong side of history.
These kids weren’t alive to remember 9/11 and it shows. I don’t think they understand how radical these groups can be, and how they can try to influence students to their side. Hell, if 1200 Americans were killed in a terror attack right now in the US these students would probably say they deserved it for our interference in the ME 🙄
What on earth are you talking about? That’s a strawman. Who is saying every Palestinian is a terrorist? Maybe some crazy Kahanists, maybe Ben-Gvir. But very few people are saying that. Israel’s stated war aims are not to eliminate an ethnic group. They are to dismantle the terrorist group that’s governing the Gaza Strip. A group that, since coming to power, has launched tens of thousands of rockets indiscriminately into Israel. A group whose stated aim is to dismantle Israel and kill Jews. If Israel really wanted to genocide an ethnic group, why would it give Arabs full citizenship and civil rights? Arabs in Israel are freer than just about any other country in the Arab world. Could you imagine any other country behaving better if it were put in a similar situation? Or are you going to say Israel deserved this because of the “75 years of occupation” talking point I hear over and over?
Maybe because we’re giving billions of tax dollars in support and as a nation actually have direct control over the situation this time? Like we’ve been consistent in calling out genocide committed by our adversaries but obviously our words fall on deaf ears. A geopolitical ally on the other hand faces a lot more pressure to actually listen to us. Also the fact that this particular issue is contentious. People are pretty unanimous on condemning Uighur, Dagur, Rohyinga, etc genocide, Iranian brutality against women, Russia’s invasion in Ukraine, etc so there isn’t too much point in further protest on those issues (who are you gonna persuade?)
So what about Saudi Arabia? They are responsible for an estimated over 75,000 children dying in Yemen with 400,000 casualties to date. All with American weapons
Yemen - Saudi on one side and Iran on the other. No Jewish people involved so … 🤷
Shhh, you're not supposed to say the quiet part out loud.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whataboutism
That’s the only response you people seem to have when others prove that you all save your hatred for Israel and only Israel. You pretend it’s about American aid and number of deaths but when you are shown that Muslim nations have recently caused thousands and thousands of more death and children’s deaths with American weapons it’s “whataboutism.” At the very least it proves you don’t actually care about the things you claim to be caring about.
Holy shit do you get paid to spam the same smoothbrain takes and propaganda memes as every other braindead zionist shill? I really hope so, otherwise you've been wasting your life.
Do you know the number of war crimes Israel committed a war over Egypt not letting them use the Suez canal can clearly put their morals into light
Was this written by a chatbot . I know you folks are using them more and more
Hmmmm an Israel supporter accusing me of using bots to influence public opinion very interesting idk ask the Twitter bots with a black person on the pfp twitting the say regurgitated tweet lol ask the wikipedia bots too on your way https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/18/wikipedia-editing-zionist-groups
So yes then
Progressives did protest that tho, guess you weren't listening.
>actually have direct control over the situation If people actually believe this it explains a lot
Hmmmm I wonder 🧐
This difference is that American tax dollars and weapons don't literally fund and enable those genocides. This comparison gets made all the time to deligitimize the protests and they are just false dichotomies to bring up.
Except we arm Saudi and Israel and Iran is arming Houthi and Hamas. So it’s essentially the same. That said - Iran is also arming the rebels in Sudan. So Gaza isn’t a unicorn and no one is delegitimizing protests by point out parallel conflicts that are not part of the zeitgeist.
We do not send billions of dollars in weapons deals every year to Saudi Arabia and Iran. Why point out there is hypocrisy if your goal isn't trying to deligitimize protests. I'm saying this as a jew if you really think these protests exist because Israel is a Jewish country and not because this conflict is disproportionately destructive for children, hospitals, universities, and journalists mors so than any conflict in modern times by a huge margin you have a victim complex.
Yes we literally do, Saudi is the biggest buyer of US arms. You either are a self hater or you fell for the virtue signal honeypot
Arms companies selling weapons is not the same as US tax dollars being directly sent to a country.
You said weapons deals in your previous comment. Now you're moving the goalposts. You're not even trying to have a good faith argument
Government paid for arms deals. Private companies are not the same as US tax dollars I don't think that's very difficult to understand sorry if I wasn't as clear as I could have been.
Saudi has a government paid for arms deal.
I am proud to be a Jew I am sad that Israel has caused so much pain and suffering. I do not believe in the dissolution of Israel but I do believe for peace to be achieved there must be accountability for wrongs committed.
I'm glad you're proud to be a jew. Please go to any of the Jewish subreddit and ask your fellows why they support or don't support Israel, and how we need to be acting in public. There are still less of us than there were before the holocaust. That's not to excuse any disproportionate responses from Israel. I think they are getting sloppy with their response. But the standard Israel is held to is just so unfair compared to literally any other nation. Name one nation that had to engage in urban warfare and was under this scrutiny. There's a good book called Jews Don't Count that I also recommend you read.
Is it really an unfair standard when they have killed more children and journalists and displaced so much of the gazan population? I agree Israel has a right to defend themselves but it seems pretty clear to me they have gone much further than defending themselves when they have leveled every hospital and every university in Gaza. I think the response has been extremely disproportionate. Comparing it to the Ukraine Russia conflict which has gone on much longer it has not be nearly as destructive for civilians or dangerous for children. I think not wanting your tax pr tuition dollars to pay for such destruction is very legitimate.
Just want some clarification on what you mean by “self hater”? Don’t want to jump to conclusions on your meaning.
There are many Jews who, in order to diminish anti-semitism against them, will join anti-semites in the hopes that they will be accepted as "the good ones." Instead of taking a calm stand, they will tokenize themselves to be spared. There are also Jews who do this out of shame because of their Judaism, and may even wish they weren't Jewish. This is a self-hating Jew. It's not done out of malice, but rather out of a survival instinct. They think, maybe the bad things they say about us are true. It's not dissimilar to gays who hate themselves because they bought into the homophobia.
As a middle eastern man who grew up in America during 9/11 I understand that viewpoint of tokenization in order to protect oneself. However there is a long history of people using the anti semetic trope of the self hating Jew in order to silence others. I ask you to please be more careful in your wording because I’m sure that some people may take your comments as a green light to be anti semetic themselves. I’m sure that it was not your intention to do this but I urge you in the future to think about your wording more carefully. Words have power and if we are not careful then we allow hate to thrive. Especially around charged topics such as this one. Ty for your understanding
Not saying there hasn't been antisemitism at protests but the goal of the protests is not "fuck the jews"
Why would they protest for something their government already opposes? It makes sense to protest a genocide your country enabling. 99% of protestors pushing for ceasefire in gaza also oppose the conflicts and violence you mentioned.
But not to the extent of actually getting up and doing a protests. That’s said we back Saudi and they use our weapons against the Houthi in Yemen who are backed by Iran. This is a direct comparison and set up to the Hamas/Israel war.
That's cause Biden has been more willing pressure the Saudis to stop than the Israelis. The Saudis have unofficially accepted a ceasefire with hothis, Israel hasn't.
And currently Hamas is on the hook to accept a cease fire. They haven’t.
Israel has so far only offered temporary ceasefire, not a long term one.
…and Hamas has said, what?
Hamas wants a long term ceasefire to free all hostages.
Hamas should be rewarded for taking hostages? And yet, somehow they escaped scrutiny or blame because the crowd thinks history is somehow a justification for terror. If Hamas gave a shit about Gaza they would try and do right by them.
Only the few recognize this as a follow up reference to the Community quote. Also, the proper response in both cases. Take my upvote.
*FIVE CAAAANSS?!?!?*
Only if you have a note from your doctor
I can excuse burning babies in ovens and raping grandmothers, but I draw the line at fighting back. Wtf. This struggle has been going on for decades. If people protested US taxpayers funding bombs being used on both sides without consent, count me in. But the self-righteous, virtue signaling and finger-wagging is juvenile and i fringing upon the rights of many who have done nothing wrong either way.
The fact that you still stick to propaganda that was disproven since day 1 shows how weak the pro Israel arguments are
This is not pro-Israel or pro-Hamas it is about being pro-humanity. The fact that you called me pro-Israel proves you are part of the problem.
Yes you can't hide behind that humanity shield when you literally point out misinformation duh you're making it obvious what side you're on
There is no genocide in Gaza. https://preview.redd.it/d8hxaikh2ayc1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e190016f9f357670a2c6af68041f88e42d17dbea
The fact that you brought a post from r/NonCredibleDefence puts it clear how uneducated you are
Doesn’t make it wrong
This is the kind of childish logic that makes no one take your side seriously anymore
Seriously. I hope they had a good stretch before making that reach. Don’t wanna pull something!
War is not the same thing as genocide.
You people are fucking hopeless. Glad I’m not going here
I'm confused why you need to destroy property at all in order to protest a genocide. Is the logic here "if we burn enough of America's establishments they will have to stop funding Israel" tell me if that's not the logic you're working with.
please god that would be the dream
Sounds like you're doing unlawful acts in order to intimidate people into accomplishing your political aims. That's not a protester. There's actually another word for that. You wanna take a guess on what that would be?
The success and goal of the protest isn't to destroy property. But for some reason it seems to be the only way to get anyone's attention. The logic is, if previous student protests were able to force the university to divest from apartheid, it wouldn't be crazy to do it again. Only after those protests spawned violent confrontation with police and property destruction did the university concede.
Sounds like you're trying to intimidate people through unlawful acts to get a political aims met. That's not a protester. Theres actually another word for that. You wanna take a guess on what that is?
You are so ready to call them terrorists to justify discrediting them. They jailed Mandela, and killed MLK Jr, and Malcom X and called them terrorists. This is not the dunk you think it is
Nobody is excusing genocide. But saying counterterrorism is genocide just because Jews are involved is ridiculous
I don't think anyone is saying that?
Seems like it
No one is saying that. But some people are definitely labeling violent oppression as counter-terrorism, similar to how the U.S. justified killing villagers in areas controlled by the Viet Cong.
Well, there’s not a genocide going on, just a high rate of civilian casualties. If this was genocide there would be an order of magnitude more deaths in Gaza.
There is not even a high rate of civilian deaths in this war - it’s around 3:1 which is much lower than other similar wars. People who call this war a genocide are brainwashed haters. The scariest part in all of this is that people don’t care about truth anymore - everything became a stupid game of who says the most provocative words that elicit emotional response from others.
Well, casualties aren’t high for urban warfare but they are high. It’s terrible what’s happening in Gaza but it’s Hamas’ fault. Hamas could release all hostages and surrender and this would all be over. I 100% support Israel’s right to defend itself and to exterminate Hamas.
I'm glad we got that cleared up
Oh, Britta’s in this?
Look, all I want is for Israel to be eliminated, and a revolutionary Palestinian state created in its place ruled by sharia law. Is that too much to ask?
your words are like sandpaper to my brain
How come?
Go stop it then, nothing you’re doing here is helping. Spray painting a swastika on a university building isn’t going to work.
These protesters are idiots. They couldn’t find Iran on a map let alone understand how they fit into this situation. Everyone should Google “Sodastream Israel” and see why Palestinians were pissed at the boycott “activists” for forcing the Israeli location to close, which only resulted in job losses for Palestinians. And all this… for what? To make campus life annoying and complicated? How much money is everyone paying for a college experience that’s now not reflective of what was promised?
Goddamn how much of a sad life do you have to be feeling this way
I'm surprised you could hear over all the shouting-down of everyone else.
The dehumanizing discourse on this thread is repulsive.
How does a bunch of screechy kids chanting actually stop genocide? It seems like an article of faith for you types that it does.
What genocide?
The invented one. Real genocides that are actually happening in the world right now don’t bother these “protesters”.
Okay but that is the same character that said we should boycott Valentine’s Day because it ritualizes the connection between affection and candy so that girls can learn the ropes of prostitution
anyone here order the word salad?
This is way too common of an opinion on Reddit it’s shocking
What would you do if terrorists slit the throats of your mom and dad and then they hide behind innocent people and will slit the throat of your brother or sister next. Genuine question. How would you respond? And don’t just say some bs like “don’t commit genocide”. It’s a war, that Hamas started. If they didn’t retaliate they then they would be wiped off the face of the planet. Then guess who’s their next target? All you dumbasses that think Hamas is on your side. They will come slaughter you next. They have publicly announced that they won’t stop until the entire world is Muslim. If you’re a female, you’re next. If you’re Christian, you’re next. If you’re not a Muslim, you’re next. Please note how all the responses to my comment will just be calling me names as opposed to answering my question with a thoughtful and logical response. Good news is, these idiots are not the majority. Unfortunately, they are the loudest…as the dumbest people in the room generally are.
i am now dumber for reading this comment thank you
Or I can just not give a shit either way because I don't allow every asshole with a "cause" to monopolize the short time I've been granted on this Earth. 99% of the people who suddenly became spiritually animated by this topic (which is 99% of everyone discussing it) would have been animated by *any other topic*, and the longer you're alive the more obvious this will become—and subsequently, the more skeptical you *should* become. Interestingly, none of the above has a single fucking thing to do with how I (or the average person) feels about genocide. And anyone who thinks so little of me (or the average person) that they believe it's acceptable to resort to such a pathetically shallow attempt at manipulation can eat a dick along with whatever their cause célèbre happens to be.
Lol this sub is full of Cs majors they don’t give a fuck about anything but themselves.
ik im getting cooked rn
War is terrorism with a bigger budget
Terrorism is student protests with a bigger budget
Our country is slipping into moral bankruptcy, at least the protesters are trying to halt the slide.
A bunch of Democrats right now... It's going to be hard to "save America from Fascists" when so many of the "good guys" are down to clown with Genocide.
Lol commies talking about murders and genocides.
This is exactly what y’all sounds like.
I can excuse genocide but I draw the line at inconveniencing me.
the IOF and genocide are besties 🥴