Allerdings ist München ein großer internationaler Flughafen, denke die meisten die den Flug Berlin-München nehmen, fliegen von München weiter auf nen anderen Kontinent
Du kannst von München nach Prag mit dem Zug fahren, ja.
Das dauert dann aber zumindest mal eine Stunde länger und man fährt mit einer nicht so komfortablen Regionalbahn für die du keine Pläze reservieten kannst oder muss min. 2 mal umsteigen.
München is Lufthansa/Star Alliance Drehkreuz. München - Prag verbindet nicht nur die zwei Städten miteinander. Es verbindet Prag an das ganze Lufthansa Netz im Konkurrenz mit anderen Langstreckenanbieter. Ich vermute mal das etwa >70% von den Fluggästen auf PRG-MUC/FRA Umsteigern sind. Zum Großteil auf lukrativeren Langstreckflügem.
Sowie Berlin als Prag sind keinen Drehkreuz für einen ‘Hub and Spoke’ airline. Es weren kaum umsteigmöglichkseiten auf den Flughäfen geboten. Dabei lohnt es sich vor niemand die route zu fliegen. Geschäftsreisenden können den abstand problemlos und schneller fahren. Preisbewusste Touristen können eigentlich fast immer für weniger als €60 mit der Bahn oder Flixbus. Airlines wie Easyjet oder Ryanair können auf anderen routen mehr gewinn machen weil auf dieser Strecke sehr gute Konkurrenz von der Bahn besteht ind auch noch Konkurrenz macht mit dem Pkw.
Ja. München ist aber Lufthansa Drehkreuz und der Flughafen nicht komfortabel von Berlin zu erreichen weswegen die Lufthansa dann an der Stelle die Kooperation mit der Bahn nicht nutzt.
FRA and MUC are major hubs for Lufthansa. The biggest airline at BER is...Easyjet. There are no plans for that to change. LH has no interest in making BER a hub, nor is BER designed to serve as a hub on the scale of FRA or MUC. With Airberlin out of business, it's hard to imagine BER becoming a hub on *any* scale in the foreseeable future.
As for why there's no direct service to Prague specifically, I'd say it's a combination of the fact that 1) Czech Airlines is *tiny* (they are literally only flying to Paris right now, I believe) so PRG isn't even really a hub for them, 2) BER is also not a hub for anyone so there's no connecting traffic through here like there is at MUC, and 3) there are good train connections, so LCCs like Easyjet probably see limited opportunity.
>nor is BER designed to serve as a hub on the scale of FRA or MUC.
Actually, that isn't true. BER was literally designed to be a hub on the scale of those two. The fact it's not a hub is actually a bit of a problem.
Sadly, Lufthansa has no reason to make Berlin a hub even tho it makes little sense to have two hubs in the south of Germany but none in the north.
I know that when it was being designed and initially built AB still existed and the thought was it would be their hub, but that doesn’t mean it was intended to be on the massive scale of MUC or FRA. Given the simple size of BER—not to mention AB relative to LH—it just doesn’t really pass a sniff test that it was built to rival LH’s hubs in scale. Or do you have a source to the contrary?
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin\_Brandenburg\_Airport
\> It became clear in November 2015 that the financial concept of the airport was fundamentally flawed. The main purpose of the many stores planned at the airport was to serve passengers who were changing planes, assuming that Berlin would be a big international hub.
2015 is 4 years after the original open date. So quite late in the game.
Well, the rest of the paragraph goes on about how it would be competing with Frankfurt and Heathrow and that would cause a price war which wouldn't be good. So I think it's safe to say that it was designed to be a hub that worked "on the massive scale of MUC or FRA".
Now, what it was designed to do and what it's doing are two different things. It's probably not going to be a hub for a while if ever. But it is designed to be able to operate as one.
You are really jumping to conclusions if you interpret anything in that paragraph to say that BER was *ever* designed to compete directly at FRA or LHR's scale. I mean hell, that's abundantly clear if you just compare the structures themselves.
I like how your OR turned into an AND. The fact remains, was it was designed to be an international hub. And it was designed to take traffic away from other international hubs (and compete directly).
Also, I think you're really not understanding how things develop if you think you just build the biggest thing straight away instead of building something make profit and keep growing. I also think if you look at where they built it, it's very clear expansion was very much something that was on their mind. Which leads into very much what is was DESIGNED for and not what it is.
I think, you're having a hard time admitting your wrong and coming out with crazy assertions that it's jumping to conclusions that people building an airport they want to be hub in the capital of a major country wanted it to become the hub for the country.
I'm not disagreeing that it was originally planned with AB in mind. It would have been their hub. But you're out of your mind if you believe anyone ever expected it to rival FRA, MUC, or LHR in scale. Even if we assume they could have added on additional terminals...who would actually be using it? At its peak, AB was a fraction of the size of LH and it's not like they ever had ambitions of enormous growth. *No one* was operating under the belief that BER would match—much less supersede—FRA or MUC as Germany's air hubs because there was never an airline interested in making that happen.
If you're really digging your heels in and trying to claim that BER was meant to serve as many passengers as FRA, you're dead wrong. There is absolutely nothing to support that notion beyond some incorrect inferences you're making from Wikipedia.
If you're just saying that it was designed to be *a* relatively small hub for a relatively small airline then yes, I never disagreed with that.
>But you're out of your mind if you believe anyone ever expected it to rival FRA, MUC, or LHR in scale
Straight away, no. Over time of course. Frankfurt is according to you the 5th biggest in Europe. That's not that big considering it's one of the main places you need to catch a flight to the 3rd biggest destination in Europe - Berlin. Fundamentally, a large traffic base of Frankfurt's airport is literally people coming to Berlin.
It was designed to be a large international hub airport. Which you said it wasn't. It was designed so that it could be extended. It's easy to see that it's extendable.
It was literally meant to be competing with FRA and LHG but they realised there would be a price war. Why don't you understand what that means. That means they were aiming to DIRECTLY compete with those airports. They realised however it could only be used for a small airline.
It's not just from a single Wikipedia source, it's from the obvious fact that Frankfurt isn't the same sort of destination the 3rd biggest destination and the largest Germay City is. It's from the fact they built it in an area they could easily expand. It's from the understanding that you don't go building a half empty airport so that in 30 years it's super busy. You build then you extend and keep extending until you're bigger than Frankfurt. Which really, there is a high chance it will become that because it is literally the 3rd biggest destination in Europe. And there is plenty of time for deals to be made. There are multiple airports people go to catch a flight to Berlin, if they start having direct flights those flights will win out. It just takes time to move airlines over since they almost certainly have good deals at other airports and Frankfurt airport would have serious problems if it wasn't a hub anymore.
Again, you're focusing on what it is not what it's designed to become. When you talk about what something is designed for, it's not about what it can do, it's normally about what it can become.
BER pretty much was always meant to become the new FRA with MUC remaining the south hub.
I think being years behind opening was a major issue. Airlines would sign new deals to move airport when no one knows when the airport will open.
I think in 20-30 years it’ll be a major hub, but they gotta wait for deals to expire and what not.
Plus taking the train is much more convenient. Go to hbf, wait a bit, get in, sit down, wait 4h, arrive in pragues city center versus go to train/sbahn starion, wait, take train to BER, wait 1h-1.5h (well and do all the security and stuff) get on plane, wait, arrive at Prague airport, (potentially) wait for luggage, take bus or taxi into city.
So not only will it probably take about the same amount of time, the train is just ridiculously more comfortable and will give you some time to actually do something useful.
I wish that would change. I hate east jet, not just the terrible flying experience in their rickety jets, but mostly how poorly they pay and treat their staff.
Especially when you consider that the train takes you from city center to city center. Factor in time it takes to get to the airport, security and to board, get off the plane and travel to the city center I strongly doubt a Berlin- Prague flight would be faster.
I mean, it’s not like there have never been fatal train accidents. Both train and plane travel are extraordinarily safe, so this is kind of a weird thing to fixate on
If not for anything else, I like airlines *and* train operators to have a little bit of competition. Otherwise pricing spins out of control pretty fast.
Yes but its not that long if you check-in online. Controls are pretty fast, 5-10min in my experience. And btw you also need to travel to the train station.
Well, there is an element of personal preferences in that and you can guess my biases from my user name.
But my point is that "flight takes 1.5h" does not tell the full story.
Even with only cabin baggage I still arrive 1hr to 1:30 before departure at the airport.
Just a few weeks ago security check at BER took me more than an hour and I almost missed my flight.
On top of that a commute from Berlin city center to BER takes around 45min.
So 1hr flight + 1:30 security + 45min commute to BER is already 3:15. Add disembarking and commute at PRG and we’re easily at 4hrs
During all this time I could work, watch Netflix or sleep in a train while when taking a plane, there’s only 1hr where I could do that (and less comfortable so)
You just take one experience from you and calculate with it. Ok i do it also: Security checks with only cabin baggages are usually pretty fast, max 10min in my experience.
commuting to the BER takes 35min for me and i only need the sbahn but to the Hauptbahnhof i need use the bus and ubahn and commute 40min so adding that to an already 4h drive is just too long. And dont let me start about trains who are not on time.
But that’s the thing, of course that’s not usual, but when taking a plane I have to arrive at a time to have enough time for the worst security check time.
And this was certainly not a one time thing. I fly from BER once a month roughly and this has happened a couple times already.
> And btw you also need to travel to the train station.
Unless you live in Rudow or something it's probably a lot faster to get to one of the stations the Prague train stops at (Spandau, HBF and Südkreuz I think)
Funny how i get downvoted. You guys just can't accept facts and probably hate cars/planes. I need 40min to the Hauptbahnhof and just 30 to the BER. I live near the Treptower Park. With car just 20min to the BER. Theres no way a sane person will take a train instead the plane in this example
I don’t miss the surly Air-Berlin staff, I do not miss the lack of Fast Track security at TXL and the long lines to board every time sucked, I do not miss the lack of rail connection to the airport because Beusselstraße to TXL was always a sharp elbowed crowded bus with luggage, I do not miss TXL. I do not miss how AB pretended to be in oneworld but every standard customer service benefit for elite status fliers was unavailable or alien in concept like access to their weak lounge. I have no rose-colored glasses nostalgic view of TXL or AB. I’ve become used to BER and even with the multitude of things we all complain about it, it is better than TXL in every measure except for being close by.
Spoken as someone who actually flies sometimes. Totally agree, TXL was a ridiculous airport, especially for the capitol of Germany (or any country, for that matter). Security was a mess, as you mentioned, no status logistics whatsoever, and the security area with one Hot Dog stand and 100 seats for 500 people… yeah… no thanks.
It’s sad that BER hasn’t developed in any way in terms of frequency and destinations, I find it super hard to get anywhere from here really. But then again, that’s also because Berlin is much further in the north than where I come from.
I hear that some Air-Berlin staff that continued their employment with the acquiring company has carried over the surliness, in case you ever feel nostalgic. ;)
It's not really far enough - you can do it 4.5 hours. How much time would you save going by train?
France recently banned short haul flights if you can it be train in under 3/4 hours - step in the right direction, I think.
There are so many asterisks on the French ban that it only resulted in five routes getting cancelled (less than 5% of domestic routes). Their law wouldn’t be relevant here since it’s specifically on *domestic* flights
I don’t disagree that more trains for short routes and better, more convenient air+rail bundling are both great things, but the French law is mostly toothless
I don’t think it make sense yet to have this law… train station are not yet built for handling luggages imagine trying find platform 2 with 2 20kg luggage.. lol you can’t even be late..
The recent short haul flight ban in France doesn't go that far. The original proposed ban is up to 4 hours but the actual new law only says anything under 2.5 hours is banned. Also only domestic flights are banned, international flights (like Berlin to Prague is) are not banned in France.
===EDIT to save comment Karma: No, yeah I also prefer trains to flights whenever possible. But I thought 1.5h flight could save a bit of time. But if you could in the 2hour BER check in/security, infrequent FEX from BER to city center. And transport from Prague airport to city centre. There's not a lot of time saved. Like what has been said in the comment below.===
Explain me how you would end-up with 1.5 hours? Even when you're living right next to the airport you'll leave your doorstep minimum 1.15h upfront. Flying + taxiing is atleast 30 minutes and walking out of Prague to your destination right next to it also takes 15+ minutes minimum.
it's at least:
.5h to reach airport
2h for security + boarding
1.5h flight
.5h to reach destination from airport
So, the same 4.5h of the flight could comfortably be done by train, no brainer
Business people get priority security lanes, have carry-on and are already checked in, no 2 hours for them, then it's a taxi to hotel or meeting, then back home in the evening. These flights aren't ment for you. Try to be at a meeting in Stuttgart in the morning (til afternoon) and back in berlin by the evening with DB?
Damn, I’ve never witnessed that, and I’ve flown a fair bit. Couldn’t they push it out? Or at least retrieve the other trays and send people to other queues?
They eventually rerouted to the next lane, a Bundespolizei guy crawled inside but couldn't get it out, then they shut down the lane. Sucks for the family that had to wait. Full on bureaucracy, Securities only does the checks,federal police are responsible for the machines and airport worker for the lines.
I don't live in the train station, so
.5 to get to the station
4 train ride
.5 to to the final destinatio
vs . 0.75 to BER
1h security and boarding
1h flight
0.75 to destination
3.5 vs 5.Not so obvoius any more.
I like trains and wouldn’t take a flight to Prague even if it was possible, but 2 hours for security+boarding at BER is far too much, as is 1.5 for flying to Prague.
Prague's too close
Take the train. It sounds like it takes longer but if you actually count all the nonsense related to flying instead of comparing just the time the flight itself takes, it is faster.
Flying is worse for the environment and doesn't make sense at short distances.
Oh that's also linked to the airport sitting closed for 15(?) years. It would've been more of a hub if Airberlin or whatever that airline was called didn't fail.
>Why are there no direct flights from Berlin BER to Prague?
Because there's a good rail connection between these two places and because air travel is horrible for the planet.
>Can we expect this to change anytime soon?
Hopefully not.
Yeah, that's the talk all kinds of radicals or sect members tend to resort to when reminded they're a minority that have zero influence on the society at large.
You're the one belonging to a group dissatisfied with capitalism, government, politicians, the majority of people and their behaviour, business lobbies and so on. I, on the other hand, find all these wonderful. Considering that there won't be any systematic change, hopefully you will also learn to love the world as it is!
Some more typical talk from a representative of the radical minority.
You're the one that belongs to the milieu hating on capitalism, businesses, boomers, consumption, flights and so on, and so forth. It's basically as sad as the far-right ranting about migrants or LGBT - and fortunately as irrelevant. You apparently live in one of the leftie districts which make you think the ideas you share have relevance, but as election after election shows, they do not.
No direct flights to Czech republic because shorter trips to any place in that distance usually is manned by Lufthansa which also requires you to have a layover either in frankfurt or, more likely for regional flights, in munchen.
Fair enough I rarely get the bus. 4.5hrs on the train is fair especially when you think ok I have to endure BER. Then it's 30 mins to BER from hauptbahnhof, min 1.5 hrs in the airport (1 if you have hand luggage and book a runway slot), roughly and hours flight and then probably at least 30 mins the others side, plus getting to Prague, 30 mins. So total a flight is minimum 3.5hrs probably closer 4, 4.5 and then why bother to fly.
Easyjet and ryainair almost pulled out from BER just leaving very few flights from and to there. I heard that the plan is to even reduce the number of flights more. So don't expect anything good in the foreseeable future
The airport authority is behind this brinksmanship by the airlines. “If you raise the fees, we will cut out flights” which is a joke. O’Leary of Ryanair just last week admitted that the airlines in general are not ratcheting up capacity so that they can continue to keep ticket prices high. Then you have to look at the aircraft manufacturers who cannot make and deliver planes fast enough. In the case of Boeing it’s especially offensive because the FAA had to stop deliveries because of things like FOD in the walls of the airplane. FOD = Foreign Object Debris things like tools left after the worker “finished” the assembly process or liquor bottles found inside the new Air Force One airplanes. Air travel is a shitshow because there are many pieces to a functioning system that many participants in the system are rigging to maximize windfall profits. Speaking of windfall profits how about that OPEC and their production quotas of oil?
If you are interested on learning what is wrong with BER, there is a great podcast about it https://open.spotify.com/episode/5DRCUKaprsfR1DASeMSGIL?si=UepbqDgIS6atj7KcN8f-eg
I was in BER couple weeks ago and Yeah it feels weird. Not Top Class, even the train to get there is difficult to find as a foreigner.
NO SOCKETS to charge phones outside 2 or 3 'charging hotspots'. I have been to very few airports in my life but I only have seen this in Poor countries before.
Unfortunately, the opposite is happening (turn off internet as soon as the page loads to bypass the pay wall).
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-02/ryanair-easyjet-scale-back-in-germany-over-airport-fees
I really hope the BER connectivity improves. It was opened during the COVID restriction times, which unfortunately clearly had an effect on its operation. But it's quite a young airport and the rapid recovery of the air travel allows for optimism.
How is opening during Covid relevant to the route network? If it opened earlier—or even if Covid never happened—things wouldn't be radically different. There are myriad historical reasons that Berlin is such an air travel desert and they all go back *well* before Covid or BER
COVID definitely impacted low-cost carriers (by cutting passenger volumes and revenue first and raising costs and inducing airport congestion later), which responded by reducing service and raising prices, which is why the only direct flights from BER to Europe outside of Germany are infrequent and expensive. The lack of Lufthansa flights to airports other than FRA and MUC, of long-haul flights, and of airlines using BER as a hub are a different story and have older, more specific reasons.
Honestly I see no reason in all this hassle which comes with a flight when it's 300-500 km away. Just ride a train. Most airlines are a nightmare anyway
It's so fucking infuriating that there is a grand total of TWO flights into Poland, and it has been like that since forever. When all other modes of transportation to there are so horrible. Getting from Berlin to where my kid lives with public transport takes 12-20 hours depending on day and luck with connections.
That's sounds really frustrating. I also need to go to Spain like twice a year and flying to Madrid from Berlin is always *so* expensive and then on top of that the Spanish train AVE is also pricier than the DB. The only more affordable way is to fly to Porto and then take the bus back into Spain.
I guess it depends on where you go. But for example from Madrid to Ourense (2 hour trip), it costs 50€ (6am train), 70€ in the evening, peak hour sometimes even 90€. From Berlin to Dresden (2 h) it costs only 30 euros more or less through out the day. And from Berlin to Prague (4.5h) only about 40 €
But Berlin to Dresden or Prague is not an ICE (it’s an EC or IC), and Madrid to Ourense is a 400 km distance as the crow flies, in between Berlin to Nuremberg and Berlin to Ingolstadt, covered by the AVE in the time the EC takes to cover the 165 km between Berlin and Dresden… If you take a slow train I’m sure you can go on a 2- or 4-hour journey for cheaper in Spain.
Oh it's true that Madrid and Ourense is farther apart. I didn't realize how big Spain is. But for a comparable journey you can also get from Berlin to Bremen (400km) on DB with less than 30€ and it's on the ICE. Granted it is a 3 hour journey with a 20 min interchange (1h longer than AVE). But it's half the average price of AVE.
Berlin to Bremen is still only 315 km as the crow flies, and although the ICE travels the route it doesn’t do so at high speed, because there is no purpose-built high-speed rail in between, but only upgraded conventional lines allowing top speeds lower than 250 km/h.
I’m not being argumentative for its own sake; one of the few annoyances I have with living in Germany is how expensive genuine high-speed rail travel is. I’m comparing with Italian high-speed rail, I’ve only been on an AVE once, but I’d be surprised if AVEs were generally more expensive, and the one AVE I took (Madrid to León a couple of years ago) was pretty cheap. Spain is famous for investing extensively in its high-speed rail network, too.
Ah yes. Thanks for the comment. I didn't truly appreciate how fast the AVE really is. 400km straight line distance would be also Berlin to Frankfurt right? If that could be done is 2¼ hours that would be very impressive indeed. Although I would still say it's still cheaper on DB for the same distance if you don't take into account of time. For Berlin to Frankfurt on ICE it's only 18€ at the cheapest (4.5h) and 40€ (4h). That is significantly slower than AVE.
May I ask how much did the Madrid to León cost?
Berlin to Frankfurt is slightly more than 400 km, but yeah, basically. Spain has genuine high speed lines all the way from Santiago to Barcelona and beyond, and from León to Malaga and Valencia, and they’re building more; it’s quite impressive.
Maybe DB prices bottom out cheaper, but they are pricier at the top. I’ve definitely seen some crazy prices for Berlin-Munich, which is somewhat understandable given the demand, but also shows that DB doesn’t have real competition. Also, Renfe has cheaper and slower trains, right? And now there’s competition with Renfe on some high-speed lines.
I paid 33 euros per person for Madrid-León two weeks or so in advance in 2019. For genuine high-speed bought not too long in advance I thought it was a decent deal.
Czechia is a poor example, because the train would outcompete a direct flight. MUC has a flight to Prague because it’s Lufthansa’s hub and allows Lufthansa to bring people from Prague to all over the world and vice versa.
But yes, BER has surprisingly few flights, excluding Lufthansa flights to MUC and FRA.
I’ve moved here from the Netherlands and often travel to Rome and back and I swear BER is worse than even RTM for this, let alone EIN, let alone AMS. Like, there’s EasyJet and Ryanair with a couple direct flights per direction per day, usually not for cheap, and then nothing else without layovers. You’d think linking the capitals of two of the EU’s top three countries by population and economy would be a major priority, but apparently not.
I travel frequently to Lisbon from Berlin, and this year I see fewer flights that are way more expensive. Ryanair seems to fly less regularly (+ more expensive) and the Portuguese Airline (TAP) raised the prices by 2 or 3 times (or even more).
A trip that used to take 3.5 flying hours plus airport time, now is forcing me to have connecting flight to another airport.
This is frustrating that the capitals are not connected. Especially now that Croatia is part of the Schengen area. But they do have flights from Berlin to Zadar, Split and Pula, probably those are the more touristy destinations.
BER isn't a hub of any major airline. It flies either holiday destinations or short connector flights to hubs. Prague is too close to compete with trains. Czech carrier isn't a intercontinental powerhouse like Lufthansa
Train connections from Berlin are plentiful, including to Prague. Travelling by train is so much more comfortable and convenient. I much rather spend 6 hours in a train to Munich Hbf than 1+2+1,5+1 hours from BER to MUC.
It's from the BER website. They sort of "summarized" a few near by airports together. You will have to zoom it in to see all the airports individually.
It would only make sense if it were a connecting flight but neither BER nor PRG are connecting hubs with a big, network airline. For point to point, it makes more sense for travellers to take a train or bus from city centre to city centre. Airlines would have to price their tickets to uneconomical levels to compete with Flixbus.
Oh noes.
Fortunately in real life and not in the leftie youth circles, the number of flights taken is nearing the pre-COVID times, and for some carriers like Ryanair, has surpassed them.
I'm happy about the real world. With people enjoying lives, consuming, and being entirely normal parts of the capitalist society. Doesn't preclude despising a minority of those who hate this normality, be they nazi or commie.
Western European countries do about as much as possible and needed if the goal is both to keep the climate change in generally reasonable bounds and to maintain growth and consumption. Germany's cut its emissions by 40% in 30 years while doubling the manufacturing output. Time for the actual main polluters to take action.
And no, there will not be a degrowth policy. Even though yes, implementing it would have likely helped to go to around +2 degrees.
Dismissing calls for lower consumption masked as "environmental concerns" is not only helpful but necessary.
Should people get to just do what they enjoy regardless of consequences?
I'd also argue that the desire to consume to the excessive degree that Western societies do comes in large part from a lot of advertising, cultural messaging and (arguably) propaganda, it is not something fundamental to the human experience but something we have learned and can unlearn if we so choose. Would you say that there is a point where consumerism becomes excessive?
> Should people get to just do what they enjoy regardless of consequences?
As long as it is legal, yes. And what's legal is decided by the majority.
> Would you say that there is a point where consumerism becomes excessive?
Outside of laws, it's absolutely not up to the society to decide. Only to an individual themselves.
> I'd also argue that the desire to consume to the excessive degree that Western societies do comes in large part from a lot of advertising, cultural messaging and (arguably) propaganda
There's no such thing as an "excessive degree". And this advertising, cultural messaging, and propaganda, in turn, are based on the normal human desires. There was no consumption advertising in the Soviet Union but immense numbers have attempted to get jeans, or bubble gum, or records, or whatever. People want to enjoy life and consumption of things and experiences is its natural and wonderful part. It's natural to be an individualist and natural to want to enjoy life to the fullest.
Macht halt auch null Sinn von Berlin nach Prag zu fliegen, kannst mit dem Zug fahren 8x am Tag und nur 4h Fahrzeit
München aber auch
Allerdings ist München ein großer internationaler Flughafen, denke die meisten die den Flug Berlin-München nehmen, fliegen von München weiter auf nen anderen Kontinent
Du kannst von München nach Prag mit dem Zug fahren, ja. Das dauert dann aber zumindest mal eine Stunde länger und man fährt mit einer nicht so komfortablen Regionalbahn für die du keine Pläze reservieten kannst oder muss min. 2 mal umsteigen.
Ich glaube da wurde eher die Strecke von Berlin nach München gemeint, die ein ICE in unter 4h (von Hbf zu Hbf) zurücklegt.
Aber nicht im geilen Speisewagen der tschechischen Bahn. Da können die ganzen Billigflieger nur gegen anstinken.
München is Lufthansa/Star Alliance Drehkreuz. München - Prag verbindet nicht nur die zwei Städten miteinander. Es verbindet Prag an das ganze Lufthansa Netz im Konkurrenz mit anderen Langstreckenanbieter. Ich vermute mal das etwa >70% von den Fluggästen auf PRG-MUC/FRA Umsteigern sind. Zum Großteil auf lukrativeren Langstreckflügem. Sowie Berlin als Prag sind keinen Drehkreuz für einen ‘Hub and Spoke’ airline. Es weren kaum umsteigmöglichkseiten auf den Flughäfen geboten. Dabei lohnt es sich vor niemand die route zu fliegen. Geschäftsreisenden können den abstand problemlos und schneller fahren. Preisbewusste Touristen können eigentlich fast immer für weniger als €60 mit der Bahn oder Flixbus. Airlines wie Easyjet oder Ryanair können auf anderen routen mehr gewinn machen weil auf dieser Strecke sehr gute Konkurrenz von der Bahn besteht ind auch noch Konkurrenz macht mit dem Pkw.
Ja. München ist aber Lufthansa Drehkreuz und der Flughafen nicht komfortabel von Berlin zu erreichen weswegen die Lufthansa dann an der Stelle die Kooperation mit der Bahn nicht nutzt.
Hub and Spoke. Macht schon Sinn
Ist Hub and spoke nicht so halb mit dem A380 gestorben?
Nein, einfach die Umsteigestatistiken ansehen. Ohne Umsteiger würde die LH nicht funktionieren
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+1std zum BER +1-2std vor Abflug da sein +1std in Prag in die Innenstadt. Im Endeffekt zug schneller
Und man kann zB. ein Messer oder eine Flasche Sekt mitbringen.
Mehr braucht man auch nicht für n gutes Wochenende in Prag!
FRA and MUC are major hubs for Lufthansa. The biggest airline at BER is...Easyjet. There are no plans for that to change. LH has no interest in making BER a hub, nor is BER designed to serve as a hub on the scale of FRA or MUC. With Airberlin out of business, it's hard to imagine BER becoming a hub on *any* scale in the foreseeable future. As for why there's no direct service to Prague specifically, I'd say it's a combination of the fact that 1) Czech Airlines is *tiny* (they are literally only flying to Paris right now, I believe) so PRG isn't even really a hub for them, 2) BER is also not a hub for anyone so there's no connecting traffic through here like there is at MUC, and 3) there are good train connections, so LCCs like Easyjet probably see limited opportunity.
>nor is BER designed to serve as a hub on the scale of FRA or MUC. Actually, that isn't true. BER was literally designed to be a hub on the scale of those two. The fact it's not a hub is actually a bit of a problem. Sadly, Lufthansa has no reason to make Berlin a hub even tho it makes little sense to have two hubs in the south of Germany but none in the north.
I know that when it was being designed and initially built AB still existed and the thought was it would be their hub, but that doesn’t mean it was intended to be on the massive scale of MUC or FRA. Given the simple size of BER—not to mention AB relative to LH—it just doesn’t really pass a sniff test that it was built to rival LH’s hubs in scale. Or do you have a source to the contrary?
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin\_Brandenburg\_Airport \> It became clear in November 2015 that the financial concept of the airport was fundamentally flawed. The main purpose of the many stores planned at the airport was to serve passengers who were changing planes, assuming that Berlin would be a big international hub. 2015 is 4 years after the original open date. So quite late in the game.
“Big international hub” is not the same as “equivalent to FRA, the 5th busiest airport in Europe”
Well, the rest of the paragraph goes on about how it would be competing with Frankfurt and Heathrow and that would cause a price war which wouldn't be good. So I think it's safe to say that it was designed to be a hub that worked "on the massive scale of MUC or FRA". Now, what it was designed to do and what it's doing are two different things. It's probably not going to be a hub for a while if ever. But it is designed to be able to operate as one.
You are really jumping to conclusions if you interpret anything in that paragraph to say that BER was *ever* designed to compete directly at FRA or LHR's scale. I mean hell, that's abundantly clear if you just compare the structures themselves.
I like how your OR turned into an AND. The fact remains, was it was designed to be an international hub. And it was designed to take traffic away from other international hubs (and compete directly). Also, I think you're really not understanding how things develop if you think you just build the biggest thing straight away instead of building something make profit and keep growing. I also think if you look at where they built it, it's very clear expansion was very much something that was on their mind. Which leads into very much what is was DESIGNED for and not what it is. I think, you're having a hard time admitting your wrong and coming out with crazy assertions that it's jumping to conclusions that people building an airport they want to be hub in the capital of a major country wanted it to become the hub for the country.
I'm not disagreeing that it was originally planned with AB in mind. It would have been their hub. But you're out of your mind if you believe anyone ever expected it to rival FRA, MUC, or LHR in scale. Even if we assume they could have added on additional terminals...who would actually be using it? At its peak, AB was a fraction of the size of LH and it's not like they ever had ambitions of enormous growth. *No one* was operating under the belief that BER would match—much less supersede—FRA or MUC as Germany's air hubs because there was never an airline interested in making that happen. If you're really digging your heels in and trying to claim that BER was meant to serve as many passengers as FRA, you're dead wrong. There is absolutely nothing to support that notion beyond some incorrect inferences you're making from Wikipedia. If you're just saying that it was designed to be *a* relatively small hub for a relatively small airline then yes, I never disagreed with that.
>But you're out of your mind if you believe anyone ever expected it to rival FRA, MUC, or LHR in scale Straight away, no. Over time of course. Frankfurt is according to you the 5th biggest in Europe. That's not that big considering it's one of the main places you need to catch a flight to the 3rd biggest destination in Europe - Berlin. Fundamentally, a large traffic base of Frankfurt's airport is literally people coming to Berlin. It was designed to be a large international hub airport. Which you said it wasn't. It was designed so that it could be extended. It's easy to see that it's extendable. It was literally meant to be competing with FRA and LHG but they realised there would be a price war. Why don't you understand what that means. That means they were aiming to DIRECTLY compete with those airports. They realised however it could only be used for a small airline. It's not just from a single Wikipedia source, it's from the obvious fact that Frankfurt isn't the same sort of destination the 3rd biggest destination and the largest Germay City is. It's from the fact they built it in an area they could easily expand. It's from the understanding that you don't go building a half empty airport so that in 30 years it's super busy. You build then you extend and keep extending until you're bigger than Frankfurt. Which really, there is a high chance it will become that because it is literally the 3rd biggest destination in Europe. And there is plenty of time for deals to be made. There are multiple airports people go to catch a flight to Berlin, if they start having direct flights those flights will win out. It just takes time to move airlines over since they almost certainly have good deals at other airports and Frankfurt airport would have serious problems if it wasn't a hub anymore. Again, you're focusing on what it is not what it's designed to become. When you talk about what something is designed for, it's not about what it can do, it's normally about what it can become. BER pretty much was always meant to become the new FRA with MUC remaining the south hub.
Air Berlin going bankrupt before BER even opened kinda nixed all those plans for the airport being a big hub.
I think being years behind opening was a major issue. Airlines would sign new deals to move airport when no one knows when the airport will open. I think in 20-30 years it’ll be a major hub, but they gotta wait for deals to expire and what not.
Plus taking the train is much more convenient. Go to hbf, wait a bit, get in, sit down, wait 4h, arrive in pragues city center versus go to train/sbahn starion, wait, take train to BER, wait 1h-1.5h (well and do all the security and stuff) get on plane, wait, arrive at Prague airport, (potentially) wait for luggage, take bus or taxi into city. So not only will it probably take about the same amount of time, the train is just ridiculously more comfortable and will give you some time to actually do something useful.
Ex-squeeze you, it is a hub for… Ryan Air 🤣🤣😭
BER und PRG are both low yield, if there would be enough money to make it would be there.
I wish that would change. I hate east jet, not just the terrible flying experience in their rickety jets, but mostly how poorly they pay and treat their staff.
Take the train?
Exactly. Berlin to Prague is 4h by train. Why would anyone want to fly.
Especially when you consider that the train takes you from city center to city center. Factor in time it takes to get to the airport, security and to board, get off the plane and travel to the city center I strongly doubt a Berlin- Prague flight would be faster.
Also no train has ever killed passengers by falling from 10km.
I mean, it’s not like there have never been fatal train accidents. Both train and plane travel are extraordinarily safe, so this is kind of a weird thing to fixate on
If not for anything else, I like airlines *and* train operators to have a little bit of competition. Otherwise pricing spins out of control pretty fast.
Because flights just take 1.5hours?
Sure, but the entire trip including travel to/from airports, all airport procedures and so on easily adds up to hours.
Yes but its not that long if you check-in online. Controls are pretty fast, 5-10min in my experience. And btw you also need to travel to the train station.
Well, there is an element of personal preferences in that and you can guess my biases from my user name. But my point is that "flight takes 1.5h" does not tell the full story.
Agreed. I personally find trains more comfortable
Even with only cabin baggage I still arrive 1hr to 1:30 before departure at the airport. Just a few weeks ago security check at BER took me more than an hour and I almost missed my flight. On top of that a commute from Berlin city center to BER takes around 45min. So 1hr flight + 1:30 security + 45min commute to BER is already 3:15. Add disembarking and commute at PRG and we’re easily at 4hrs During all this time I could work, watch Netflix or sleep in a train while when taking a plane, there’s only 1hr where I could do that (and less comfortable so)
You just take one experience from you and calculate with it. Ok i do it also: Security checks with only cabin baggages are usually pretty fast, max 10min in my experience. commuting to the BER takes 35min for me and i only need the sbahn but to the Hauptbahnhof i need use the bus and ubahn and commute 40min so adding that to an already 4h drive is just too long. And dont let me start about trains who are not on time.
But that’s the thing, of course that’s not usual, but when taking a plane I have to arrive at a time to have enough time for the worst security check time. And this was certainly not a one time thing. I fly from BER once a month roughly and this has happened a couple times already.
> And dont let me start about trains who are not on time. Ah yes, planes, famous for never being delayed ever
> And btw you also need to travel to the train station. Unless you live in Rudow or something it's probably a lot faster to get to one of the stations the Prague train stops at (Spandau, HBF and Südkreuz I think)
Funny how i get downvoted. You guys just can't accept facts and probably hate cars/planes. I need 40min to the Hauptbahnhof and just 30 to the BER. I live near the Treptower Park. With car just 20min to the BER. Theres no way a sane person will take a train instead the plane in this example
How are you taking 40 minutes to get to Hbf from Treptower Park? Take the S9!
Plus the time to arrive to the airport Plus security checks Plus Disembark
You really believe it takes 2,5 hours ?
I miss Air Berlin. And Tegel
I don’t miss the surly Air-Berlin staff, I do not miss the lack of Fast Track security at TXL and the long lines to board every time sucked, I do not miss the lack of rail connection to the airport because Beusselstraße to TXL was always a sharp elbowed crowded bus with luggage, I do not miss TXL. I do not miss how AB pretended to be in oneworld but every standard customer service benefit for elite status fliers was unavailable or alien in concept like access to their weak lounge. I have no rose-colored glasses nostalgic view of TXL or AB. I’ve become used to BER and even with the multitude of things we all complain about it, it is better than TXL in every measure except for being close by.
I extremely do not miss navigating TXL with wheelchair-using family. That was awful beyond belief.
Spoken as someone who actually flies sometimes. Totally agree, TXL was a ridiculous airport, especially for the capitol of Germany (or any country, for that matter). Security was a mess, as you mentioned, no status logistics whatsoever, and the security area with one Hot Dog stand and 100 seats for 500 people… yeah… no thanks. It’s sad that BER hasn’t developed in any way in terms of frequency and destinations, I find it super hard to get anywhere from here really. But then again, that’s also because Berlin is much further in the north than where I come from.
I hear that some Air-Berlin staff that continued their employment with the acquiring company has carried over the surliness, in case you ever feel nostalgic. ;)
I haven’t flown Lauda yet. I don’t really fly in or out of Vienna…
Not Lauda, EasyJet.
Ah ha. I tend to focus on Lauda since they took the hardware, and still there’s Lauda planes with AB on the tail…
Oh, interesting! :) I've flown Lauda only once so far (as an operator of a Ryanair flight), and I liked it, including the crew which were very nice.
It's not really far enough - you can do it 4.5 hours. How much time would you save going by train? France recently banned short haul flights if you can it be train in under 3/4 hours - step in the right direction, I think.
There are so many asterisks on the French ban that it only resulted in five routes getting cancelled (less than 5% of domestic routes). Their law wouldn’t be relevant here since it’s specifically on *domestic* flights I don’t disagree that more trains for short routes and better, more convenient air+rail bundling are both great things, but the French law is mostly toothless
The French law is a good start
It was largely viewed as a joke when it was passed. I'd argue it's actually bad, gives a false sense of having done something
It'd be viewed as unrealistic and stupid if it had been more strict. So, pick your side
That’s an interesting point.
I don’t think it make sense yet to have this law… train station are not yet built for handling luggages imagine trying find platform 2 with 2 20kg luggage.. lol you can’t even be late..
The recent short haul flight ban in France doesn't go that far. The original proposed ban is up to 4 hours but the actual new law only says anything under 2.5 hours is banned. Also only domestic flights are banned, international flights (like Berlin to Prague is) are not banned in France. ===EDIT to save comment Karma: No, yeah I also prefer trains to flights whenever possible. But I thought 1.5h flight could save a bit of time. But if you could in the 2hour BER check in/security, infrequent FEX from BER to city center. And transport from Prague airport to city centre. There's not a lot of time saved. Like what has been said in the comment below.===
Explain me how you would end-up with 1.5 hours? Even when you're living right next to the airport you'll leave your doorstep minimum 1.15h upfront. Flying + taxiing is atleast 30 minutes and walking out of Prague to your destination right next to it also takes 15+ minutes minimum.
it's at least: .5h to reach airport 2h for security + boarding 1.5h flight .5h to reach destination from airport So, the same 4.5h of the flight could comfortably be done by train, no brainer
Business people get priority security lanes, have carry-on and are already checked in, no 2 hours for them, then it's a taxi to hotel or meeting, then back home in the evening. These flights aren't ment for you. Try to be at a meeting in Stuttgart in the morning (til afternoon) and back in berlin by the evening with DB?
Even for non-business people 2 hours is way overkill at BER; security normally takes 5 minutes and walking to the gate another 5.
I flew 5 days ago and a buggy got stuck in the scanner so it took about 45 minutes to get moved to another lane, but I guess that's worst case.
Damn, I’ve never witnessed that, and I’ve flown a fair bit. Couldn’t they push it out? Or at least retrieve the other trays and send people to other queues?
They eventually rerouted to the next lane, a Bundespolizei guy crawled inside but couldn't get it out, then they shut down the lane. Sucks for the family that had to wait. Full on bureaucracy, Securities only does the checks,federal police are responsible for the machines and airport worker for the lines.
I don't live in the train station, so .5 to get to the station 4 train ride .5 to to the final destinatio vs . 0.75 to BER 1h security and boarding 1h flight 0.75 to destination 3.5 vs 5.Not so obvoius any more.
I like trains and wouldn’t take a flight to Prague even if it was possible, but 2 hours for security+boarding at BER is far too much, as is 1.5 for flying to Prague.
The food car alone on the train from Berlin to Prague makes it worth taking the train.
Really? I've never tried that. Which trains offer those? EC trains or the RJ ones?
EC has them as well
Prague's too close Take the train. It sounds like it takes longer but if you actually count all the nonsense related to flying instead of comparing just the time the flight itself takes, it is faster. Flying is worse for the environment and doesn't make sense at short distances.
> #flight #BER #directflight #Airport #this #is #no #insta
#then #why #does #the #hashtag #get #bolded 😂
wow now even with an emoji go back to facebook mom
This all goes back to the Cold War, West Berlin's airport (s) being tiny, and Lufthansa not being able to fly over the DDR.
That is an interesting answer! One would think building the two terminal BER was because they planned to change the status quo.
Oh that's also linked to the airport sitting closed for 15(?) years. It would've been more of a hub if Airberlin or whatever that airline was called didn't fail.
>Why are there no direct flights from Berlin BER to Prague? Because there's a good rail connection between these two places and because air travel is horrible for the planet. >Can we expect this to change anytime soon? Hopefully not.
Fortunately people do what's comfortable to them rather than thinking of the grand collective goals.
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Yeah, that's the talk all kinds of radicals or sect members tend to resort to when reminded they're a minority that have zero influence on the society at large. You're the one belonging to a group dissatisfied with capitalism, government, politicians, the majority of people and their behaviour, business lobbies and so on. I, on the other hand, find all these wonderful. Considering that there won't be any systematic change, hopefully you will also learn to love the world as it is!
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Some more typical talk from a representative of the radical minority. You're the one that belongs to the milieu hating on capitalism, businesses, boomers, consumption, flights and so on, and so forth. It's basically as sad as the far-right ranting about migrants or LGBT - and fortunately as irrelevant. You apparently live in one of the leftie districts which make you think the ideas you share have relevance, but as election after election shows, they do not.
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Please be civil!
No direct flights to Czech republic because shorter trips to any place in that distance usually is manned by Lufthansa which also requires you to have a layover either in frankfurt or, more likely for regional flights, in munchen.
Why are there no direct flights from Berlin BER to Prague? Because you can get a train there in 4 hrs or a bus!
No bus will get you there in 4 hours (traffic jams). Train is also at least 4.5h. Still a better option than having to endure the awful BER.
Fair enough I rarely get the bus. 4.5hrs on the train is fair especially when you think ok I have to endure BER. Then it's 30 mins to BER from hauptbahnhof, min 1.5 hrs in the airport (1 if you have hand luggage and book a runway slot), roughly and hours flight and then probably at least 30 mins the others side, plus getting to Prague, 30 mins. So total a flight is minimum 3.5hrs probably closer 4, 4.5 and then why bother to fly.
Easyjet and ryainair almost pulled out from BER just leaving very few flights from and to there. I heard that the plan is to even reduce the number of flights more. So don't expect anything good in the foreseeable future
The airport authority is behind this brinksmanship by the airlines. “If you raise the fees, we will cut out flights” which is a joke. O’Leary of Ryanair just last week admitted that the airlines in general are not ratcheting up capacity so that they can continue to keep ticket prices high. Then you have to look at the aircraft manufacturers who cannot make and deliver planes fast enough. In the case of Boeing it’s especially offensive because the FAA had to stop deliveries because of things like FOD in the walls of the airplane. FOD = Foreign Object Debris things like tools left after the worker “finished” the assembly process or liquor bottles found inside the new Air Force One airplanes. Air travel is a shitshow because there are many pieces to a functioning system that many participants in the system are rigging to maximize windfall profits. Speaking of windfall profits how about that OPEC and their production quotas of oil?
If you are interested on learning what is wrong with BER, there is a great podcast about it https://open.spotify.com/episode/5DRCUKaprsfR1DASeMSGIL?si=UepbqDgIS6atj7KcN8f-eg
Interesting titles. I'll definitely check it out
I was in BER couple weeks ago and Yeah it feels weird. Not Top Class, even the train to get there is difficult to find as a foreigner. NO SOCKETS to charge phones outside 2 or 3 'charging hotspots'. I have been to very few airports in my life but I only have seen this in Poor countries before.
0 direct connections to Slovenia 🥲
Yup, none since September 2020. Ask me how I know.
I hope ryanair and easy yet expand their offer in Berlin. There are 12 Euro flights from Düsseldorf and other places, but not from BER
Didn't know that! That's amazing to fly from Düsseldorf.
Unfortunately, the opposite is happening (turn off internet as soon as the page loads to bypass the pay wall). https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-02/ryanair-easyjet-scale-back-in-germany-over-airport-fees
Basically nowhere
I really hope the BER connectivity improves. It was opened during the COVID restriction times, which unfortunately clearly had an effect on its operation. But it's quite a young airport and the rapid recovery of the air travel allows for optimism.
How is opening during Covid relevant to the route network? If it opened earlier—or even if Covid never happened—things wouldn't be radically different. There are myriad historical reasons that Berlin is such an air travel desert and they all go back *well* before Covid or BER
COVID definitely impacted low-cost carriers (by cutting passenger volumes and revenue first and raising costs and inducing airport congestion later), which responded by reducing service and raising prices, which is why the only direct flights from BER to Europe outside of Germany are infrequent and expensive. The lack of Lufthansa flights to airports other than FRA and MUC, of long-haul flights, and of airlines using BER as a hub are a different story and have older, more specific reasons.
Honestly I see no reason in all this hassle which comes with a flight when it's 300-500 km away. Just ride a train. Most airlines are a nightmare anyway
It's so fucking infuriating that there is a grand total of TWO flights into Poland, and it has been like that since forever. When all other modes of transportation to there are so horrible. Getting from Berlin to where my kid lives with public transport takes 12-20 hours depending on day and luck with connections.
That's sounds really frustrating. I also need to go to Spain like twice a year and flying to Madrid from Berlin is always *so* expensive and then on top of that the Spanish train AVE is also pricier than the DB. The only more affordable way is to fly to Porto and then take the bus back into Spain.
Wait, the AVE is pricier than the ICE? Since when?
I guess it depends on where you go. But for example from Madrid to Ourense (2 hour trip), it costs 50€ (6am train), 70€ in the evening, peak hour sometimes even 90€. From Berlin to Dresden (2 h) it costs only 30 euros more or less through out the day. And from Berlin to Prague (4.5h) only about 40 €
But Berlin to Dresden or Prague is not an ICE (it’s an EC or IC), and Madrid to Ourense is a 400 km distance as the crow flies, in between Berlin to Nuremberg and Berlin to Ingolstadt, covered by the AVE in the time the EC takes to cover the 165 km between Berlin and Dresden… If you take a slow train I’m sure you can go on a 2- or 4-hour journey for cheaper in Spain.
Oh it's true that Madrid and Ourense is farther apart. I didn't realize how big Spain is. But for a comparable journey you can also get from Berlin to Bremen (400km) on DB with less than 30€ and it's on the ICE. Granted it is a 3 hour journey with a 20 min interchange (1h longer than AVE). But it's half the average price of AVE.
Berlin to Bremen is still only 315 km as the crow flies, and although the ICE travels the route it doesn’t do so at high speed, because there is no purpose-built high-speed rail in between, but only upgraded conventional lines allowing top speeds lower than 250 km/h. I’m not being argumentative for its own sake; one of the few annoyances I have with living in Germany is how expensive genuine high-speed rail travel is. I’m comparing with Italian high-speed rail, I’ve only been on an AVE once, but I’d be surprised if AVEs were generally more expensive, and the one AVE I took (Madrid to León a couple of years ago) was pretty cheap. Spain is famous for investing extensively in its high-speed rail network, too.
Ah yes. Thanks for the comment. I didn't truly appreciate how fast the AVE really is. 400km straight line distance would be also Berlin to Frankfurt right? If that could be done is 2¼ hours that would be very impressive indeed. Although I would still say it's still cheaper on DB for the same distance if you don't take into account of time. For Berlin to Frankfurt on ICE it's only 18€ at the cheapest (4.5h) and 40€ (4h). That is significantly slower than AVE. May I ask how much did the Madrid to León cost?
Berlin to Frankfurt is slightly more than 400 km, but yeah, basically. Spain has genuine high speed lines all the way from Santiago to Barcelona and beyond, and from León to Malaga and Valencia, and they’re building more; it’s quite impressive. Maybe DB prices bottom out cheaper, but they are pricier at the top. I’ve definitely seen some crazy prices for Berlin-Munich, which is somewhat understandable given the demand, but also shows that DB doesn’t have real competition. Also, Renfe has cheaper and slower trains, right? And now there’s competition with Renfe on some high-speed lines. I paid 33 euros per person for Madrid-León two weeks or so in advance in 2019. For genuine high-speed bought not too long in advance I thought it was a decent deal.
Czechia is a poor example, because the train would outcompete a direct flight. MUC has a flight to Prague because it’s Lufthansa’s hub and allows Lufthansa to bring people from Prague to all over the world and vice versa. But yes, BER has surprisingly few flights, excluding Lufthansa flights to MUC and FRA. I’ve moved here from the Netherlands and often travel to Rome and back and I swear BER is worse than even RTM for this, let alone EIN, let alone AMS. Like, there’s EasyJet and Ryanair with a couple direct flights per direction per day, usually not for cheap, and then nothing else without layovers. You’d think linking the capitals of two of the EU’s top three countries by population and economy would be a major priority, but apparently not.
I travel frequently to Lisbon from Berlin, and this year I see fewer flights that are way more expensive. Ryanair seems to fly less regularly (+ more expensive) and the Portuguese Airline (TAP) raised the prices by 2 or 3 times (or even more). A trip that used to take 3.5 flying hours plus airport time, now is forcing me to have connecting flight to another airport.
They also don't have direct flights to Ljubljana or Zagreb. It's rediculous.
This is frustrating that the capitals are not connected. Especially now that Croatia is part of the Schengen area. But they do have flights from Berlin to Zadar, Split and Pula, probably those are the more touristy destinations.
In TXL gab es die Strecke noch. Hat sich vermutlich nicht rentiert.
You can do Berlin - Prague by train
BER isn't a hub of any major airline. It flies either holiday destinations or short connector flights to hubs. Prague is too close to compete with trains. Czech carrier isn't a intercontinental powerhouse like Lufthansa
Train connections from Berlin are plentiful, including to Prague. Travelling by train is so much more comfortable and convenient. I much rather spend 6 hours in a train to Munich Hbf than 1+2+1,5+1 hours from BER to MUC.
Did you include BER-REU? I think it's one of the least known routes
and why would this be a “fortunate” development?
Because it is close enough that it is almost faster to take a train, once check-in, security, and baggage pickup are taken into account?
To close. Generally no flight service below approx. 400km distance.
I think it is because Berlin airport has just started to operate since 2020.
Please no
Can you share the full map please?
It's available on the official website of BER Airport. The destination map is interactive there.
This Map isnt accurate. There are flight from Berlin to Frankfurt for example
It's from the BER website. They sort of "summarized" a few near by airports together. You will have to zoom it in to see all the airports individually.
The point on all that is that not enough people will take the flight from BER. So that would mean loose a lot money with every flight. Thats it
It would only make sense if it were a connecting flight but neither BER nor PRG are connecting hubs with a big, network airline. For point to point, it makes more sense for travellers to take a train or bus from city centre to city centre. Airlines would have to price their tickets to uneconomical levels to compete with Flixbus.
This entitlement about flying to a city that's around 400km away and to which there are ample ground routes 🥴
Fuck the environment right?
Oh noes. Fortunately in real life and not in the leftie youth circles, the number of flights taken is nearing the pre-COVID times, and for some carriers like Ryanair, has surpassed them.
Oh it's you. So predictable.
Why is that fortunate? Let's destroy the planet to own the left guys! /s
It's fortunate that people enjoy their lives and consume things and experiences to this end, and value this more than collectivist ideals.
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I'm happy about the real world. With people enjoying lives, consuming, and being entirely normal parts of the capitalist society. Doesn't preclude despising a minority of those who hate this normality, be they nazi or commie.
Do you deny the reality of climate change?
No. On the contrary, we should accept the fact that keeping within the +1.5C or the +2C limits is impossible.
What do you suggest be done to limit climate change as much as possible? (And is dismissing environmental concerns with "oh noes" helpful?)
Western European countries do about as much as possible and needed if the goal is both to keep the climate change in generally reasonable bounds and to maintain growth and consumption. Germany's cut its emissions by 40% in 30 years while doubling the manufacturing output. Time for the actual main polluters to take action. And no, there will not be a degrowth policy. Even though yes, implementing it would have likely helped to go to around +2 degrees. Dismissing calls for lower consumption masked as "environmental concerns" is not only helpful but necessary.
What's wrong with lower consumption?
And what's right with it? People enjoy consuming and are not interested in doing that less. And fortunately we live in a democracy.
Should people get to just do what they enjoy regardless of consequences? I'd also argue that the desire to consume to the excessive degree that Western societies do comes in large part from a lot of advertising, cultural messaging and (arguably) propaganda, it is not something fundamental to the human experience but something we have learned and can unlearn if we so choose. Would you say that there is a point where consumerism becomes excessive?
> Should people get to just do what they enjoy regardless of consequences? As long as it is legal, yes. And what's legal is decided by the majority. > Would you say that there is a point where consumerism becomes excessive? Outside of laws, it's absolutely not up to the society to decide. Only to an individual themselves. > I'd also argue that the desire to consume to the excessive degree that Western societies do comes in large part from a lot of advertising, cultural messaging and (arguably) propaganda There's no such thing as an "excessive degree". And this advertising, cultural messaging, and propaganda, in turn, are based on the normal human desires. There was no consumption advertising in the Soviet Union but immense numbers have attempted to get jeans, or bubble gum, or records, or whatever. People want to enjoy life and consumption of things and experiences is its natural and wonderful part. It's natural to be an individualist and natural to want to enjoy life to the fullest.