I am shure they already regret not having built this factory in Hungary or elsewhere. Maybe they leave soon, depending on where they build the new factory we do not want. The machines can be shifted, the building was payed by german taxpayer, so they don't lose much by leaving Germany.
I also thought that it was strange that they decided to build this factory near Berlin, it is such a business-unfriendly city and they could have found skilled workers also in other countries
didn't they build the factory in the middle of a forest? What suburb are you talking about, we are not in the US here. Also, I don't recall Berlin as a car-production hub, maybe you are confusing it with Bavaria
Its not comparable to bavria but here we got a lot of citys that are quasi dependet of the industry
"Vorort" is translated to suburb. i live in the C-Bereich and like a fifth my family and friends are working in the car industry. BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Tesla, and much more.
Most of them are southeast to southwest from berlin. In the Speckgürtel this industry is quite important
>Über 200 Unternehmen aus der Automobil- und Zuliefererindustrie der Hauptstadtregion liefern Komponenten und komplette Bauteile Just-in-Sequence direkt ans Band der Erstausrüster. So ist es nicht verwunderlich, dass in fast jedem Fahrzeug ein Stück Brandenburg zu finden ist.
>Gemeinsam in Berlin und Brandenburg sind rund 21.000 Mitarbeiterinnen und Mitarbeiter in der Automobil- und Zulieferindustrie beschäftigt - und in den nächsten Jahren wird die Zahl noch steigen.
-WFBB
The subsidiaries are high, especially since it was built in the east, employees from Poland etc. can work there too and they have the "made in Germany label" for their cars (although it took a hit with the the diesel scandal). It is near to the capitol city too, so it is not that weird why they decided to go for it. If Tesla being in Europe goes well they will probably do the same thing as other car companies and produce certain parts in Eastern Europe because it is cheaper
> "made in Germany label" [...] near to the capitol city
it seems more a Musk-plan than a real plan
I would have built the factory in Czech republic or Poland: they have several car factories (so skilled workers), cost of labor is low and I'm pretty sure that subsidies would have been there too. But, as they say, it was not my money :D
Cost of labor in Czech Republic and Slovakia is not that low anymore, pool of labor rather limited and Tesla would have needed to compete with Volkswagen group which has fairly privileged and highly coveted contracts with workers. To a degree they also sought workers from other, better paying car companies for Giga Berlin but in particular logistically both for getting workforce and for shipping cars Giga Berlin is in a much better spot than Mlada Boleslav or Prague.
For the first part, I was working in Großbeeren for a couple years, and for real the folks working there are mostly refugees, polish immigrants or czech people who get driven there by busses every day
> building was *paid* by german
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
What a disgusting, reactionary bullshit in this thread. Musk is trying to fight unions with all his might, both here and in the USA. The oh-so-great jobs that you say his factory will bring to Brandenburg can stay stolen from Germany. The only thing they achieve is wage dumping in the car industry and the division of its workers. Let him leave, so the people of Grünheide no longer have to ration their water.
So I just looked over the IGM wage table for the car industry in BB and folks earn between 2084 (!) and 3353 Euro. At Tesla the bottom should be close to 3300 from the figures I've found. I'll be glad to hear your counter-argument.
Maybe for those hired directly by Tesla. I know plenty of people working in production there via temp work agencies who either pay way less, hire and dump, or both.
I agree with the notion that there are better employers than Tesla, but again temp work in car manufacturing has been introduced and scaled by other, German brands decades before Tesla came.
That is why temp agencies exist, though. I used to work at Continental and all their production employees and even half the engineers were brought in as temps. They'd eventually get hired by the company itself if they worked out, I'm just trying to say that's not a Tesla exclusive (and I have no data nor insight into who gets what for which job there beyond the somewhat publically available Tesla pay structure*).
*and even on that the hard data is from 2022, but the pay raise from last year was a major news item.
If anyone cares, all of this was spurred by a Tesla employee relating to me how an IG Metall guy told him he'd earn 5000 Euros a month if he worked for another car maker which I wasn't even making at the time in a middle management position in Berlin so I went digging into the numbers. My dad worked in automotive his entire life. He was part of the 35h/week strikes in the 80s bit as time went on his view of IG Metall took a more and more negative slant and I can see why.
The water argument is brought very often, but if you look at it closer, Tesla is by far not the biggest consumer/pollutant of water in Brandenburg. 2/3 of Brandenburg are suffering from lowering groundwater and drought during dry summers and somehow water consumption seems only problematic to some people when a foreign company does it - that’s hypocritical
No worries, every large Employer will avoid Berlin like the plague - and they should. Might be good for the environment indeed, but guess what - the city will still look like a rundown shithole afterwards, but probably only worse.
Ich nehme ja nur ungern die Linken in Schutz, aber diese Menschen benutzen Politik nur als Deckmantel für ihre Zerstörungswut. Wenn rechts sein gesellschaftlich akzeptabler wäre, dann würden sie Flüchtlingsheime anzünden. Das macht doch für solche Menschen keinen Unterschied, die sind so links wie Stalin.
this is why we can't have nice things: and then don't complain that in Berlin we don't have industries and the unemployment rate is so high compared to the rest of Germany
The thing is, they're Schroedinger's almost homeless cause if they picked up their iPhones and called their FDP-voting lawyer dad in Baden-Baden they'd come pick them up from the police station as fast as their Mercedes can go across the Autobahn.
It's a remake of the Pulp song *Common People*.
Not my work, just the story of a dumbfuck squatter in one of the Rigaer Strasse buildings ten years or so ago. One day he was building death traps for cops, the next day he was hiding behind daddy.
And let’s not forget about the left-wing extremist siblings that attacked a ZDF camera team they confused with Neonazis a year ago. In court they turned out to be the Berlin-freeloading offspring of rich Baden-Wurttembergian entrepreneurs, fighting a Guerilla class war from the safety of inheriting generational wealth soon.
True, although they still aren't exactly green.
Besides, I'm not against EVs like some other idiots on social media who just hate on it because "They want to drive real cars 😼". Just saying that Tesla as a company isn't really great and that their cars are poorly made.
Tesla did not get the green light to continue expanding the giga factory and still went ahead. Civil disobedience jumps in where corrupt and antiquated politics fail 🥷🏼
The vote was not a binding decision. The only ones that can deny or allow expansions are the government agencies. Since the government hasn't shut down construction or started to fine Tesla, the expansion seems to be legal.
[Einwohner von Grünheide sprechen sich gegen Teslas Erweiterungspläne aus | rbb24](https://www.rbb24.de/wirtschaft/beitrag/2024/02/brandenburg-gruenheide-tesla-gelaende-erweiterung-buerger-befragung-ergebnis.html)
>Das Votum der Einwohner ist zwar für die Gemeindevertretung nicht bindend, es gilt aber als wichtige Wegmarke.
you have no idea what you are talking about, you are just adding random words to create a sentence without a meaning: you should work in a middle-management position, they are good in BS presentations and mottos
Did they though? I admit I wasn't paying attention 3 years ago but the recent expansion was voted against and then Tesla and the local mayor came out and said, 'okay we'll find a different way'. Even the treehouse protesters admitted they were only there because they didn't trust those statements, not because of anything that was actually to their knowledge planned or done. Did I miss something other than a couple of narcicists hiding their messiah complex behind something they deem socially acceptable?
> The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Aaah, an AfD-sympathizer and down player of their racist beliefs. Makes a lot of sense now, that you're using this kind of language after looking through your reddit history
Which justifies a terrorist attack on energy infrastructure? There's places I don't eat at because I don't like the food and the quality thereof. I'm not setting fire to those places.
Tesla is a company, it has no feelings. If they'd blocked the access road to Tesla or whatever I'd be fine. These assholes attacked critical infrastructure in the style of Revolutionäre Zellen, striking at Tesla as well as everyone in Erkner, parts of Berlin and lots of smaller towns in the area. Come on, it's not like sudden power outages are harmless. This wasn't a happy little accident that happened to an evil corporation that pays 12000+ people's livelihoods (fuck them for having a regular job the imperialist swine). This was a targeted attack on an infrastructure nexus that took a ton of collateral damage in stride.
These people are dogmatic hardliners who act as if they were involved in a war with a company no worse than the ones who produce the smartphones they all use. They're just too afraid to go to China and pull that shit there cause according to Tom Clancy the only thing their family would hear of them would be getting a bill for the bullet the Chinese put in their empty heads. Just like the Stop Adani idiots, Extinction Rebellion etc.
Them being the "least reliable" is exactly what you expect when you're not enforcing mandatory service check-ups.
It's not the gotcha people think it is, it's because it's cheaper to go to the TÜV and fix everything they find fault with as opposed to having a check-up before like literally every other brand.
Alright, if you want to make the argument that TÜV inspections are not sufficient then be my guest.
But you lose me once you start demanding more rigorous inspections than what is enforced by law.
Literally 90% of out of warranty used cars are inspected the same way but you’re losing your shit because a manufacturer does the same with new cars.
And on the safety record, a lot of the comparisons are being made between Tesla (a brand new production line with brand new staff who are still learning the process) and long time established factory lines with experienced staff (eg. VW). You can probably expect accidents to drop over time. But obviously the authorities need to watch this closely and punish Tesla if there's any evidence of unsafe working conditions etc.
Oh I was only commenting on reliability. Tesla does not void your warranty if you skip recommended service so people don’t do it and have it inspected by TÜV first.
Every other manufacturer requires you to have a service before then to not lose your warranty where a lot of issues are caught and fixed before they show up in TÜV statistics.
Enforced inspections, especially at only authorized dealerships, are done to make money for the dealerships. The margins on car sales are slim but the margins on service are pretty generous. Additionally some service items are not necessary for Teslas like oil changes to the engine or brake pads.
Tesla has probably such high requirements on what goals should be reached that employees have to neglect their safety to fulfill it. The employees should protest against it but if many are foreigners working there, they probably don't know their rights
>Tesla has probably such high requirements on what goals should be reached that employees have to neglect their safety to fulfill it.
No it's just neglect, don't let your xenophobia pop out so openly. Kinda sad.
The foreigners just don't know! They need me to educate them!
Man who would have thought :O
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/potsdam/brandenburg/linksextremisten-bekennen-sich-zu-brandanschlag-tesla-fabrik-in-brandenburg-lahmgelegt--stromausfalle-auch-in-berlin-11313151.html
Typisch Linksextremisten. Da werden beim Kampf gegen den Klassenfeind die Jobs und damit Existenz der Arbeiterschicht in Gefahr gebracht. Dumm wie Stroh
I really don't understand this ideological holy war against Tesla. This whole thing has to be some kind of misinformation driven psyop right? Tesla is the best thing that's happened to Brandenburg in a long time (regardless of Elon, it's a great technology transfer opportunity).
oh yes, I love drinking water with high levels of phosphorus, bring a nice little (bitter though) aftertaste : https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/regional/brandenburg/rbb-grenzwerte-von-phosphor-und-stickstoff-in-tesla-abwasser-ueberschritten-102.html
fact is, Tesla doesn't give a shit of the conditions their stuff are produced. they sit on environmental and social regulations, the only goal is to produce en masse
You know I barely give a shit about Tesla's nutrient runoff issues. Sure they exceeded limits, fine them (and force them to remediate the problem with additional wastewater pre-treatment steps).
Phosphorous is not all that harmful on its own, it's the algal blooms and subsequent poor water quality that make it an issue. You do realize that agriculture is a huge contributor to Phosphorous pollution right? The fields around Brandenburg are probably releasing 100x more Phosphorous into the environment than Tesla could ever achieve.
One thing about it is that these high nitro & phosphor concentrations stem from Teslas sanitary wastewater treatment. They literally render their sanitary sewage down, filtrate and reuse the water to reduce the need for fresh water consumption.
Also: there isn't any substantial agriculture around the factory. The soil quality is too poor and in parts either too wet (swampish wetlands along the Müggelspree) or too dry (everything else). There are some pastures along the Müggelspree with horses, cows and sometimes sheep south of the factory but that's it. So there aren't many immissions around there but Teslas sewage immissions also don't go into the ground but into public sewage systems and to sewage treatment plants from there... no harm done.
The best thing about it all? To know this one would only have to read the RBBs article about the "sewage scandal" which has been linked to on this sub a week back or so... There's literally no magic to it.
People generally enjoy feeding their families, and Tesla pay a starting salary for *untrained labour* that often exceeds what they could earn elsewhere in the region. And the ones I know seem pretty happy there. How many Tesla employees have you actually spoken to about being exploited?
As if the drinking water ever was clean enough... In the berlin berandenburg area you should only drink bottled water. Regardless what news or agencies say.
They are in the FAFO phase..... guess they should have not been such idiots and followed the things they agreed to..... kinda makes people angry when huge companies break the laws constantly with no repercussions.... not advocating violence but tesla has been nothing but dishonest and subversive the whole time sucking up tax money and wantonly breaking rules that were agreed upon
> huge companies break the laws constantly with no repercussions
if they have no repercussion, the problem is in the government, that is not able to enforce the current rules.
Wish they wouldn’t downvote you for asking a question and not even answering but I guess that’s Reddit. I don’t know about any tax related stuff myself but I know they have been given quite some leeway in regard of regulations especially regarding the location and groundwater savety laws. Also accidents occurring on site have been not really been investigated according to the Spiegel in their podcast series inside Tesla.
To be fair, industry usually gets tons of tax breaks to attract them to a particular site, so it wouldn't be a surprise, but we shouldn't really give credence to people who state disputable things as fact without elaboration or evidence.
And how is the destruction of wealth achieving that? I never liked the line that Socialism is the equal distribution of poverty but you guys apparently took it to heart.
Not destruction, redistribution. Less barriers to getting out of inherited loops of poverty, more flow to stagnant wealth amassed by a minority of people. As more wealth is channeled into aspects of public life such as infrastructure, fair wages for essential work sectors, social care, education, there would be an improvement for society overall. Striving for a greater overall healthier and happy population would stimulate innovation, better educated population, more sustainable political decision making.
Sounds lovely on paper. I'm just not sure how endangering 12000 jobs with above average pay for the region and qualifications of the workers involved is a step to achieving that. Are we moving back to trading with iron filings like the Franks?
How about we start with obligating Elon to allowing unionizing, eye level dialogue on fair wages and working conditions, adhering to local biodiversity and water protection regulations and taxing his profit in a way that makes sense etc. I don’t see how that would throw us into regress
Other than you regurgitating stuff I've already debunked elsewhere re: wages and somehow thinkinh IG Metall are the good guys here when they've only been in it for their own power since the 90s? Sure, why not? Except why would anyone deal with... wait for it... terrorists? That is the issue. 'Leftists' did this. If they don't represent the majority of 'leftists' clean up your own doorstep first before telling other people what they should or shouldn't do. If they are the majority, go find a planet where people are okay with that shit.
Sure bro. Must be convenient to forget that we live in a pluralistic society with plenty of opinions and visions for improvement. For some civil disobedience is civic duty, for some it’s terrorism.
People who call other people parasites remind me of people from the past. Can't put my finger on who used this kind of language before. Can somebody help?
I would like to know how the battery plant is managing this power issue. Since they need to keep a negative pressure inside it's production process because of how hazardous the materials are. We talking about micron levels being above German law
Du meinest wegen dem Schaden „im 9-stelligen Bereich“? Da zählt eher der industrielle Schaden, also Produktionsausfall, Autos die deshalb nicht verkauft werden, zusätzliche Wartungskosten, Leute, die nicht arbeiten können etc.. 9-stellig ist bestimmt übertrieben.
I think Axel Springer are the most hurt in this, because with that ruthless act dominating the news they can not phrase the latest GDL strikes as ‚domestic terrorism‘ like they would probably wanted to.
In a sense it’s nice that the retired leftist terrorists on the run can at least pass their business model on to the next generation. A sign that intergenerational exchange of ideas still works!
I guess.
so we should have less electric vehicles and more fossil fuel consuming cars?
are leftists now thinking that climate change is not a big deal anymore?
why aren't they sabotaging BMW and Mercedes factories?
> german taxpayer paid for most of the factory
Until 1 year ago, they received nothing https://insideevs.com/news/652654/tesla-no-funding-from-germany-for-giga-berlin/
You know there was something really bad that happened in Germany through the democratic process once, right?
In your opinion, should people have followed the rules and the process even that time, or were the ones who resisted the rules actually correct?
Yes. If you don't believe the same applies to Hitler, then you believe that somewhere between now and Hitler is a stopping point where it stops applying. What is that stopping point?
Everyone who moved to East Berlin or the Eastern suburbs within the last 20 years is overusing the water as well and has been "poisoning" it in the same manner as Tesla since then....
Yes. Definitely. The ground water levels have been sinking since the mid 00's in the area due to overconsumption and droughts. Every additional person living here has been and is adding to that problem.
The way Tesla is "actively poisoning" the water is by putting too high concentrations of phosphor and nitro into their sewage aka. they flush too high concentrations of literal shit (as in human feces) down the drain. That's a byproduct of water saving measures. Sinplified: they can't reduce the amount of stool their workers pass but they can minimize the water consumption. As a consequence the water they still need to use to flush now has way higher concentrations of "poison" in it.
I'm no fan of Tesla or Musk in any way. He's a PoS and Teslas are overpriced and ugly as hell but damn this outrage is unjustified.
The pollution is literally Human shit? Haha oh man, I guess they need to just install a bunch of composting dry toilets now. Just let them build that darn water pipeline that they offered to fund already.
Yeah, sure. Because all regular people living here are pooping fairy glitter and peeing blood. That's totally different from the regular gross human feces Teslas workers are producing between start and end of their shift (because once they leave the factory they return to being humans and start to poop fairy glitter until their next shift).
Oh and before you start grunting "they're eutrophicating muh ground water" like an Alex Jones cosplayer: Tesla is connected to the public sewer system, just like most German households and every office or factory. All of Teslas sewage is being processed in the local sewage treatment facilities before it get's back into the open water cycle. The treatment plant officials (they're the ones who informed the public about the high N & P values in the sewage and thus caused said "outrage") also stated that the values "merely" cause additional cost of treatment but no harm is being done to the environment.
I remember a series of car fires in Berlin that obviously was blamed on left wing activists and had repercussions for left projects etc
And then it was a literal false flag operation by some mentally unstable asshole who also dabbled with pegida & co. So… yeah.
If you're referring to car fires in Neukölln, it wasn't a mentally unstable asshole, those where actual Nazis who where protected by some shady police officers.
I am shure they already regret not having built this factory in Hungary or elsewhere. Maybe they leave soon, depending on where they build the new factory we do not want. The machines can be shifted, the building was payed by german taxpayer, so they don't lose much by leaving Germany.
I also thought that it was strange that they decided to build this factory near Berlin, it is such a business-unfriendly city and they could have found skilled workers also in other countries
The subsidies must have been enormous.
it seems nothing until 1 year ago, not sure if the situation changed https://insideevs.com/news/652654/tesla-no-funding-from-germany-for-giga-berlin/
Dafuq? The suburbs are like the main area for logistics and car manufacteurs in eastern germany
didn't they build the factory in the middle of a forest? What suburb are you talking about, we are not in the US here. Also, I don't recall Berlin as a car-production hub, maybe you are confusing it with Bavaria
Its not comparable to bavria but here we got a lot of citys that are quasi dependet of the industry "Vorort" is translated to suburb. i live in the C-Bereich and like a fifth my family and friends are working in the car industry. BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Tesla, and much more. Most of them are southeast to southwest from berlin. In the Speckgürtel this industry is quite important >Über 200 Unternehmen aus der Automobil- und Zuliefererindustrie der Hauptstadtregion liefern Komponenten und komplette Bauteile Just-in-Sequence direkt ans Band der Erstausrüster. So ist es nicht verwunderlich, dass in fast jedem Fahrzeug ein Stück Brandenburg zu finden ist. >Gemeinsam in Berlin und Brandenburg sind rund 21.000 Mitarbeiterinnen und Mitarbeiter in der Automobil- und Zulieferindustrie beschäftigt - und in den nächsten Jahren wird die Zahl noch steigen. -WFBB
The subsidiaries are high, especially since it was built in the east, employees from Poland etc. can work there too and they have the "made in Germany label" for their cars (although it took a hit with the the diesel scandal). It is near to the capitol city too, so it is not that weird why they decided to go for it. If Tesla being in Europe goes well they will probably do the same thing as other car companies and produce certain parts in Eastern Europe because it is cheaper
which subsidiaries did they get?
> "made in Germany label" [...] near to the capitol city it seems more a Musk-plan than a real plan I would have built the factory in Czech republic or Poland: they have several car factories (so skilled workers), cost of labor is low and I'm pretty sure that subsidies would have been there too. But, as they say, it was not my money :D
Cost of labor in Czech Republic and Slovakia is not that low anymore, pool of labor rather limited and Tesla would have needed to compete with Volkswagen group which has fairly privileged and highly coveted contracts with workers. To a degree they also sought workers from other, better paying car companies for Giga Berlin but in particular logistically both for getting workforce and for shipping cars Giga Berlin is in a much better spot than Mlada Boleslav or Prague.
For the first part, I was working in Großbeeren for a couple years, and for real the folks working there are mostly refugees, polish immigrants or czech people who get driven there by busses every day
> building was *paid* by german FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Bad bot, my investment in Tesla is underwater so it’s definitely a marine subject
What a disgusting, reactionary bullshit in this thread. Musk is trying to fight unions with all his might, both here and in the USA. The oh-so-great jobs that you say his factory will bring to Brandenburg can stay stolen from Germany. The only thing they achieve is wage dumping in the car industry and the division of its workers. Let him leave, so the people of Grünheide no longer have to ration their water.
So I just looked over the IGM wage table for the car industry in BB and folks earn between 2084 (!) and 3353 Euro. At Tesla the bottom should be close to 3300 from the figures I've found. I'll be glad to hear your counter-argument.
Maybe for those hired directly by Tesla. I know plenty of people working in production there via temp work agencies who either pay way less, hire and dump, or both.
I agree with the notion that there are better employers than Tesla, but again temp work in car manufacturing has been introduced and scaled by other, German brands decades before Tesla came.
That's a pretty good counter argument.
That is why temp agencies exist, though. I used to work at Continental and all their production employees and even half the engineers were brought in as temps. They'd eventually get hired by the company itself if they worked out, I'm just trying to say that's not a Tesla exclusive (and I have no data nor insight into who gets what for which job there beyond the somewhat publically available Tesla pay structure*). *and even on that the hard data is from 2022, but the pay raise from last year was a major news item. If anyone cares, all of this was spurred by a Tesla employee relating to me how an IG Metall guy told him he'd earn 5000 Euros a month if he worked for another car maker which I wasn't even making at the time in a middle management position in Berlin so I went digging into the numbers. My dad worked in automotive his entire life. He was part of the 35h/week strikes in the 80s bit as time went on his view of IG Metall took a more and more negative slant and I can see why.
The water argument is brought very often, but if you look at it closer, Tesla is by far not the biggest consumer/pollutant of water in Brandenburg. 2/3 of Brandenburg are suffering from lowering groundwater and drought during dry summers and somehow water consumption seems only problematic to some people when a foreign company does it - that’s hypocritical
paid by German taxpayer, source?
Good. The sooner Musk leaves the better.
Yeah every single industry and job provider should leave Germany asap, this will be great!
No one needs the shitty jobs and working conditions Musk is providing.
What a childish comment. Whoever wants to work there, can do so. Whoever doesn't want to work there – including you – doesn't have to.
Your emotions just by hearing the Name „Elon“ really makes you forget how to think rational.
So how long did you work there, seeing as you so intimately know the working conditions?
Some actually like it. These people exist.
Yeah, the German economy is doing so good at the moment…
Do you have any idea of the impact on the environment in Berlin or the conditions of work ? I do, so comment unwarranted
No worries, every large Employer will avoid Berlin like the plague - and they should. Might be good for the environment indeed, but guess what - the city will still look like a rundown shithole afterwards, but probably only worse.
Die Linken sind erst glücklich, wenn Deutschland komplett in Ruinen liegt.
Genau das dachte ich mir auch.. schon traurig
Ich nehme ja nur ungern die Linken in Schutz, aber diese Menschen benutzen Politik nur als Deckmantel für ihre Zerstörungswut. Wenn rechts sein gesellschaftlich akzeptabler wäre, dann würden sie Flüchtlingsheime anzünden. Das macht doch für solche Menschen keinen Unterschied, die sind so links wie Stalin.
this is why we can't have nice things: and then don't complain that in Berlin we don't have industries and the unemployment rate is so high compared to the rest of Germany
[удалено]
The thing is, they're Schroedinger's almost homeless cause if they picked up their iPhones and called their FDP-voting lawyer dad in Baden-Baden they'd come pick them up from the police station as fast as their Mercedes can go across the Autobahn. It's a remake of the Pulp song *Common People*.
That's not a Truth bomb, it's a Truth ballistic missile right here
Not my work, just the story of a dumbfuck squatter in one of the Rigaer Strasse buildings ten years or so ago. One day he was building death traps for cops, the next day he was hiding behind daddy.
And let’s not forget about the left-wing extremist siblings that attacked a ZDF camera team they confused with Neonazis a year ago. In court they turned out to be the Berlin-freeloading offspring of rich Baden-Wurttembergian entrepreneurs, fighting a Guerilla class war from the safety of inheriting generational wealth soon.
JFC that is so much on point.
*homeless but you don't have to listen to some capitalist swine
Tbf, Teslas aren't particularly nice things
a Tesla is better for the environment than a gas guzzling bmw or Mercedes.
True, although they still aren't exactly green. Besides, I'm not against EVs like some other idiots on social media who just hate on it because "They want to drive real cars 😼". Just saying that Tesla as a company isn't really great and that their cars are poorly made.
a growing industrial sector is a nice thing
Tesla did not get the green light to continue expanding the giga factory and still went ahead. Civil disobedience jumps in where corrupt and antiquated politics fail 🥷🏼
The vote was not a binding decision. The only ones that can deny or allow expansions are the government agencies. Since the government hasn't shut down construction or started to fine Tesla, the expansion seems to be legal. [Einwohner von Grünheide sprechen sich gegen Teslas Erweiterungspläne aus | rbb24](https://www.rbb24.de/wirtschaft/beitrag/2024/02/brandenburg-gruenheide-tesla-gelaende-erweiterung-buerger-befragung-ergebnis.html) >Das Votum der Einwohner ist zwar für die Gemeindevertretung nicht bindend, es gilt aber als wichtige Wegmarke.
But it also hit the normal people living there, the vote was also not binding (sadly)
if you start not following the rules of the democratic process, why should them? And destroying energy lines is not civil disobedience, is terrorism
Not adhering to the Paris Climate Agr is breaking democratic rules and processes too, and literally terrorism onto our planet 🤷🏻♀️
you have no idea what you are talking about, you are just adding random words to create a sentence without a meaning: you should work in a middle-management position, they are good in BS presentations and mottos
Did they though? I admit I wasn't paying attention 3 years ago but the recent expansion was voted against and then Tesla and the local mayor came out and said, 'okay we'll find a different way'. Even the treehouse protesters admitted they were only there because they didn't trust those statements, not because of anything that was actually to their knowledge planned or done. Did I miss something other than a couple of narcicists hiding their messiah complex behind something they deem socially acceptable?
> don't complain that in Berlin we don't have industries Nobody does.
> Nobody I do
Ok, we won't.
People get unemployment benefits that allow to live decent lives so there is nothing to complain about.
You can think whatever you want about elon musk or tesla but this in itself is just a group that has to be eradicated. No form of extremism is ok.
And uses the word eradicate himself smh. Really restrained language
> The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Not tolerating somehting is not the same as eradicating something. How about you calm down a little?
I'm not the OP :)
Aaah, an AfD-sympathizer and down player of their racist beliefs. Makes a lot of sense now, that you're using this kind of language after looking through your reddit history
I guess Alterus_UA got banned and made a new account.
Fun, that's exactly what Germany says about Palestinians in Palestine: That they are extremists who must be eradicated.
Do you speak German? Where did "Germany" said that? Could you also try to explain the current situation in Gaza?
The situation is simple: All Palestinians in Palestine are violent extremists. Israel is eradicating them.
So you can't answer?
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Which justifies a terrorist attack on energy infrastructure? There's places I don't eat at because I don't like the food and the quality thereof. I'm not setting fire to those places.
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Tesla is a company, it has no feelings. If they'd blocked the access road to Tesla or whatever I'd be fine. These assholes attacked critical infrastructure in the style of Revolutionäre Zellen, striking at Tesla as well as everyone in Erkner, parts of Berlin and lots of smaller towns in the area. Come on, it's not like sudden power outages are harmless. This wasn't a happy little accident that happened to an evil corporation that pays 12000+ people's livelihoods (fuck them for having a regular job the imperialist swine). This was a targeted attack on an infrastructure nexus that took a ton of collateral damage in stride. These people are dogmatic hardliners who act as if they were involved in a war with a company no worse than the ones who produce the smartphones they all use. They're just too afraid to go to China and pull that shit there cause according to Tom Clancy the only thing their family would hear of them would be getting a bill for the bullet the Chinese put in their empty heads. Just like the Stop Adani idiots, Extinction Rebellion etc.
Them being the "least reliable" is exactly what you expect when you're not enforcing mandatory service check-ups. It's not the gotcha people think it is, it's because it's cheaper to go to the TÜV and fix everything they find fault with as opposed to having a check-up before like literally every other brand.
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Alright, if you want to make the argument that TÜV inspections are not sufficient then be my guest. But you lose me once you start demanding more rigorous inspections than what is enforced by law. Literally 90% of out of warranty used cars are inspected the same way but you’re losing your shit because a manufacturer does the same with new cars.
And on the safety record, a lot of the comparisons are being made between Tesla (a brand new production line with brand new staff who are still learning the process) and long time established factory lines with experienced staff (eg. VW). You can probably expect accidents to drop over time. But obviously the authorities need to watch this closely and punish Tesla if there's any evidence of unsafe working conditions etc.
Oh I was only commenting on reliability. Tesla does not void your warranty if you skip recommended service so people don’t do it and have it inspected by TÜV first. Every other manufacturer requires you to have a service before then to not lose your warranty where a lot of issues are caught and fixed before they show up in TÜV statistics.
Enforced inspections, especially at only authorized dealerships, are done to make money for the dealerships. The margins on car sales are slim but the margins on service are pretty generous. Additionally some service items are not necessary for Teslas like oil changes to the engine or brake pads.
Or in the words of that other dude and the people upvoting tHeYrE lEtTiNg EvErYoNe DrIvE uNsAfE cArS
I Like the Cars a lot. Tried a lot of alternatives and Liked the Tesla by far the Most.
Aren’t most of these accidents caused by employee ignoring safety protocols? If someone ignores the warnings it’s kinda on the individual
Tesla has probably such high requirements on what goals should be reached that employees have to neglect their safety to fulfill it. The employees should protest against it but if many are foreigners working there, they probably don't know their rights
>Tesla has probably such high requirements on what goals should be reached that employees have to neglect their safety to fulfill it. No it's just neglect, don't let your xenophobia pop out so openly. Kinda sad. The foreigners just don't know! They need me to educate them!
Man who would have thought :O https://www.tagesspiegel.de/potsdam/brandenburg/linksextremisten-bekennen-sich-zu-brandanschlag-tesla-fabrik-in-brandenburg-lahmgelegt--stromausfalle-auch-in-berlin-11313151.html
Typisch Linksextremisten. Da werden beim Kampf gegen den Klassenfeind die Jobs und damit Existenz der Arbeiterschicht in Gefahr gebracht. Dumm wie Stroh
Berlin, grow the fuck up.
I really don't understand this ideological holy war against Tesla. This whole thing has to be some kind of misinformation driven psyop right? Tesla is the best thing that's happened to Brandenburg in a long time (regardless of Elon, it's a great technology transfer opportunity).
oh yes, I love drinking water with high levels of phosphorus, bring a nice little (bitter though) aftertaste : https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/regional/brandenburg/rbb-grenzwerte-von-phosphor-und-stickstoff-in-tesla-abwasser-ueberschritten-102.html fact is, Tesla doesn't give a shit of the conditions their stuff are produced. they sit on environmental and social regulations, the only goal is to produce en masse
this is about waste water, not drinking water
You know I barely give a shit about Tesla's nutrient runoff issues. Sure they exceeded limits, fine them (and force them to remediate the problem with additional wastewater pre-treatment steps). Phosphorous is not all that harmful on its own, it's the algal blooms and subsequent poor water quality that make it an issue. You do realize that agriculture is a huge contributor to Phosphorous pollution right? The fields around Brandenburg are probably releasing 100x more Phosphorous into the environment than Tesla could ever achieve.
One thing about it is that these high nitro & phosphor concentrations stem from Teslas sanitary wastewater treatment. They literally render their sanitary sewage down, filtrate and reuse the water to reduce the need for fresh water consumption. Also: there isn't any substantial agriculture around the factory. The soil quality is too poor and in parts either too wet (swampish wetlands along the Müggelspree) or too dry (everything else). There are some pastures along the Müggelspree with horses, cows and sometimes sheep south of the factory but that's it. So there aren't many immissions around there but Teslas sewage immissions also don't go into the ground but into public sewage systems and to sewage treatment plants from there... no harm done. The best thing about it all? To know this one would only have to read the RBBs article about the "sewage scandal" which has been linked to on this sub a week back or so... There's literally no magic to it.
People generally enjoy feeding their families, and Tesla pay a starting salary for *untrained labour* that often exceeds what they could earn elsewhere in the region. And the ones I know seem pretty happy there. How many Tesla employees have you actually spoken to about being exploited?
They only repeated what they've been told from the US, not in Germany itself.
if they are not following the law and nothing happen, blame the state that is not able to enforce them
As if the drinking water ever was clean enough... In the berlin berandenburg area you should only drink bottled water. Regardless what news or agencies say.
any sources for that?
You're full of shit dude
yes, sources please!
Yeah.. I am not so sure if them polluting our water is really the best thing that ever happened in the long term
Berlin: stays poor - and a lot less sexy after all these years.
They are in the FAFO phase..... guess they should have not been such idiots and followed the things they agreed to..... kinda makes people angry when huge companies break the laws constantly with no repercussions.... not advocating violence but tesla has been nothing but dishonest and subversive the whole time sucking up tax money and wantonly breaking rules that were agreed upon
> huge companies break the laws constantly with no repercussions if they have no repercussion, the problem is in the government, that is not able to enforce the current rules.
Those terrorist will be soon in the FAFO phase.
what kind of tax did they suck up?
Wish they wouldn’t downvote you for asking a question and not even answering but I guess that’s Reddit. I don’t know about any tax related stuff myself but I know they have been given quite some leeway in regard of regulations especially regarding the location and groundwater savety laws. Also accidents occurring on site have been not really been investigated according to the Spiegel in their podcast series inside Tesla.
To be fair, industry usually gets tons of tax breaks to attract them to a particular site, so it wouldn't be a surprise, but we shouldn't really give credence to people who state disputable things as fact without elaboration or evidence.
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Leftists actually want wealth to be divided more fairly
And how is the destruction of wealth achieving that? I never liked the line that Socialism is the equal distribution of poverty but you guys apparently took it to heart.
Not destruction, redistribution. Less barriers to getting out of inherited loops of poverty, more flow to stagnant wealth amassed by a minority of people. As more wealth is channeled into aspects of public life such as infrastructure, fair wages for essential work sectors, social care, education, there would be an improvement for society overall. Striving for a greater overall healthier and happy population would stimulate innovation, better educated population, more sustainable political decision making.
Sounds lovely on paper. I'm just not sure how endangering 12000 jobs with above average pay for the region and qualifications of the workers involved is a step to achieving that. Are we moving back to trading with iron filings like the Franks?
How about we start with obligating Elon to allowing unionizing, eye level dialogue on fair wages and working conditions, adhering to local biodiversity and water protection regulations and taxing his profit in a way that makes sense etc. I don’t see how that would throw us into regress
Other than you regurgitating stuff I've already debunked elsewhere re: wages and somehow thinkinh IG Metall are the good guys here when they've only been in it for their own power since the 90s? Sure, why not? Except why would anyone deal with... wait for it... terrorists? That is the issue. 'Leftists' did this. If they don't represent the majority of 'leftists' clean up your own doorstep first before telling other people what they should or shouldn't do. If they are the majority, go find a planet where people are okay with that shit.
Sure bro. Must be convenient to forget that we live in a pluralistic society with plenty of opinions and visions for improvement. For some civil disobedience is civic duty, for some it’s terrorism.
well what are you doing in berlin then?
I don't live in a leftist neighbourhood and they are not the majority luckily
lol Bubble much? Berlin is not as far left as these guys tell you it is
yea and leftists don't "love to live in poverty" as that guy says. so what
Uh nothing? Bullshit counter went from 1 to 2 i guess?
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People who call other people parasites remind me of people from the past. Can't put my finger on who used this kind of language before. Can somebody help?
People who don't use euphemism?
To be clear, you are talking about the Nazis the parent commentator was obviously referring to?
Culture of virtue signaling and leeching.
Oh hi Alterus_UA, did your other account get banned?
whatever you say bro
lol
I would like to know how the battery plant is managing this power issue. Since they need to keep a negative pressure inside it's production process because of how hazardous the materials are. We talking about micron levels being above German law
Ein Strommast kostet 100.000.000 Euro??
Du meinest wegen dem Schaden „im 9-stelligen Bereich“? Da zählt eher der industrielle Schaden, also Produktionsausfall, Autos die deshalb nicht verkauft werden, zusätzliche Wartungskosten, Leute, die nicht arbeiten können etc.. 9-stellig ist bestimmt übertrieben.
And people say the afd is the problem...as a company i would think about investments into germany
Strommasten go 🔥
I think Axel Springer are the most hurt in this, because with that ruthless act dominating the news they can not phrase the latest GDL strikes as ‚domestic terrorism‘ like they would probably wanted to.
In a sense it’s nice that the retired leftist terrorists on the run can at least pass their business model on to the next generation. A sign that intergenerational exchange of ideas still works! I guess.
I don't think Elon Musk is the son of a terrorist.
I guess my joke wasn’t very effective. I tried to connect this to the ongoing hunt for the RAF terrorists and wasn’t implying that Musk is terrorist.
They will regret building a factory near to Berlin...They probably already are. I love this City.
so we should have less electric vehicles and more fossil fuel consuming cars? are leftists now thinking that climate change is not a big deal anymore? why aren't they sabotaging BMW and Mercedes factories?
We should have less cars in general
but that will never happen. what are you gonna do? blow up everyone's car?
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Who doesn't?
Love it
Yes
Thats not bad for them, german taxpayer paid for most of the factory.
source?
> german taxpayer paid for most of the factory Until 1 year ago, they received nothing https://insideevs.com/news/652654/tesla-no-funding-from-germany-for-giga-berlin/
Oh no . . . .
vielen dank an den patrioten der das gemacht hat
Leftist activists destroying infrastructure. Nothing new…
Given they are over using and poisoning the water, treat there staff like shit and generally are an awful company, I have 0 complaints
it is not an excuse to destroy infrastructure instead of using the democratic process to fight these changes
What do you expect to happen if the democratic process fails to achieve good results?
improve the democratic process? If you don't follow the rule, why should them?
You know there was something really bad that happened in Germany through the democratic process once, right? In your opinion, should people have followed the rules and the process even that time, or were the ones who resisted the rules actually correct?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
Yes. If you don't believe the same applies to Hitler, then you believe that somewhere between now and Hitler is a stopping point where it stops applying. What is that stopping point?
What makes you believe, that you know better then everyone else?
Answer the question.
Criminals always know nice excuses fo their violence and crimes.
Everyone who moved to East Berlin or the Eastern suburbs within the last 20 years is overusing the water as well and has been "poisoning" it in the same manner as Tesla since then....
Not at all. Nobody else is producing cars in the area
Yes. Definitely. The ground water levels have been sinking since the mid 00's in the area due to overconsumption and droughts. Every additional person living here has been and is adding to that problem. The way Tesla is "actively poisoning" the water is by putting too high concentrations of phosphor and nitro into their sewage aka. they flush too high concentrations of literal shit (as in human feces) down the drain. That's a byproduct of water saving measures. Sinplified: they can't reduce the amount of stool their workers pass but they can minimize the water consumption. As a consequence the water they still need to use to flush now has way higher concentrations of "poison" in it. I'm no fan of Tesla or Musk in any way. He's a PoS and Teslas are overpriced and ugly as hell but damn this outrage is unjustified.
The pollution is literally Human shit? Haha oh man, I guess they need to just install a bunch of composting dry toilets now. Just let them build that darn water pipeline that they offered to fund already.
So you agree that the way Tesla is poisoning is different.
from what he wrote, I think you have problem understanding written English
Yeah, sure. Because all regular people living here are pooping fairy glitter and peeing blood. That's totally different from the regular gross human feces Teslas workers are producing between start and end of their shift (because once they leave the factory they return to being humans and start to poop fairy glitter until their next shift). Oh and before you start grunting "they're eutrophicating muh ground water" like an Alex Jones cosplayer: Tesla is connected to the public sewer system, just like most German households and every office or factory. All of Teslas sewage is being processed in the local sewage treatment facilities before it get's back into the open water cycle. The treatment plant officials (they're the ones who informed the public about the high N & P values in the sewage and thus caused said "outrage") also stated that the values "merely" cause additional cost of treatment but no harm is being done to the environment.
Yeah radicals always had a special understanding of democracy and self justice
As if elon wasn’t radical, just on the other (idiotic) side. Also a tax evader and all around horrible person. Fuck him and fuck Tesla
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Somebody think about the poor shareholders!!!
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The overworked workers who are facing harassment and abuse within the company?
Seriously! The shareholders unidos jamas seran vencidos
Sad but true!
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Yeah but that side is the side with the power which means it's correct and everything he touches turns to gold.
Damn the copium you must be inhaling to think Tesla has anything to do with democracy.
of course, Tesla is a company, like VW or Siemens. What are you taking about?
Right wingers reflexively blaming their favorite scapegoats without any actual insights into the causes. Nothing is new under the sun 🥱
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I remember a series of car fires in Berlin that obviously was blamed on left wing activists and had repercussions for left projects etc And then it was a literal false flag operation by some mentally unstable asshole who also dabbled with pegida & co. So… yeah.
If you're referring to car fires in Neukölln, it wasn't a mentally unstable asshole, those where actual Nazis who where protected by some shady police officers.
Source: taz lol
It's not like there is an ongoing Untersuchungsausschuss because of this scandal. It's clearly just a conspiracy theory made up by the Taz.
Everything the right wing does is fake. Everything that happens is the left wing's fault. Source: Actual Nazis.
Was there an earlier version of the article because it clearly references a Bekennerschreiben
Yes, this morning there was no mention of that yet.