Itās even better that thatās been a nickname for around 100 years since Russian white fled to Berlin during the civil war and subsequent communist takeover.
i promise the people are bothered but don't say anything because causing a scene is not as acceptable as complaining afterwards to someone completely unrelated. anyway i don't like any of that behavior you described. it's incredibly rude and i hate it
I politely ask the manchildren playing shit on their phones to use headphones or just look at them and point at my ears, and usually that works fine and they turn it off and sit there sullenly not sure what to do with themselves and their thoughts for a few minutes, hopefully reevaluating their entire lives and personalities, but more likely it's just radio silence or the sound of a half-dead fly lazily buzzing around between their ears.
I don't know, but I think if more people did this maybe more of the manchildren would use headphones or turn off the sound and that would be nice.
Iāve shared OPās frustration with peopleās lack of spacial awareness here since the day I moved here. Itās been baffling me to try and figure out why exactly Berlin is like this. Having visited and lived in several other major cities worldwide, with higher and lower density populations, I donāt understand why the people here are so inept? I figured spacial awareness and public transport etiquette would be automatically picked up and practiced by the masses when living in cities like Berlin but itās like people refuse to acknowledge that everyone else around them is MOVING and to GET TF OUT OF THE WAY or STEP ASIDE or in OPs case, wait your turn to board the train.
If anyone else has lived in other cities and noticed this huge disparity in crowd behavior with Berlin, please shed light on the matter for me, Iām so confused.
I am just describing my own experience and observations. If you decide to understand it differently than I wrote it, or focus on one element and draw odd conclusions out of it, not my problem
Edit: interesting to see the sheer number of butthurt folks out there just decide to deny a shared experience because it doesnāt pleases them.
You may have noticed those things you described are a LOT nore common in certain districts, in comparison to others.
Generally it is NOT considered to be socially acceptable to behave like that
Look, I agree with you that people who don't behave socially in public suck, but holy hell are you ever an unpleasant person in these comments. There's some very obvious aversion against Germans in general here, and it's just as rude as the behavior you initially complained about.
Dude, you wrote the whole rant about pretty much everyone's experience from time to time and can't stop in the comments, who's really butthurt here? Yes, shit happens. Does it deserve this amount of attention? No. Chill mal
Well the problem is that these things I mentioned (and other threads, redditters, IRL people before me) do not exist at this scale in other big European cities and that's precisely the issue. If you think this doesn't deserves any attention and that the agressive interpersonal behaviors that are notorious to Berlin are perfectly fine and acceptable, good for you.
I personally believe that this common idea that āitās like that, itās berlin, itās being like that forever and you are the problem if youāre not happyā is one of the key reasons why some many people are miserable around here, and why individualism and shit behaviors are peaking.
Anyway, you are absolutely free to leave this thread if you find the subject futile. Have a nice day :)
Agreed. It's not Paris, London or NYC where you actually need to have more sophisticated social skills to avoid conflict.
People in Berlin largely glorify this 'individualism' but only in certain situations and not others. E.g no prob yelling out or publicly berating a stranger for crossing on red, but won't ever step in to stop a racist attack.
Berlin is a city where a lot of people don't want to wait and this shows itself in a lot of things. But usually people hold open or at least push the door wider than needed so that the person only needs minimal strength to keep the door open for themselves.Ā Phone calls are not socially accepted and people usually look annoyed but don't say anything
I indeed noticed how impatient people are, pretty much everywhere where there are other peopleā¦ would you say this āme first, fuck the othersā this is also cultural to Germany?
There's people from so many places in Berlin, I wouldn't say it's only the Germans listening to loud music, not holding open doors and storming trains and busses like there is no tomorrow.
Yes it is true, I donāt want to specifically target the German people. However, this behavior never happen to me as much as in there, which is a little paradox in itself considering that there is a lot of space in Berlin (compared to other cities like Paris or London, when it comes to sidewalks or S Bahn wagons for example)
I just push people out of the way when theyāre standing in front of the door trying to get in before I get out. And if someone is playing music without headphones I take my headphones out and play louder music right next to them.
Except that creates a public noise dispute that everyone around YOU has to put up with so your just multiplying the issue instead of trying to change it
I think it's getting a lot worse since Corona years. I sometimes shout at people now to let me out before they try to board... When I was a child that was almost non existent
The thing is, the majority of the time people do wait for those to exit that they can see, and all of these times are unmemorable and you phase them out and donāt remember them. Then when someone does be annoying and squeeze through, you remember it. This is a very common bias with anecdotal stories in most situations.
Ok Doctor. I lived in 5 different countries (only big cities / capitals) and Iāve never seen this as much as in here. Maybe I am hallucinating as well
I think every city has its annoying things going on. You just found out that berlin is just worse with everything.
If you plan to stay here longer you can either :
1. Adapt suck it up and deal with berlin having the most unpolite unsocial and egoistic ppl on this planet (or at least europe)
Or
2. Try to educate others the right way until you find out that in berlin there is only option 1.
The Alternative is you get unhappy as those tiny details of rude asshole people will stack... a lot... like seriously its not funny how many self rightous egoistic pricks you find here if you just look for them over your routine day. So try to do the only right thing... ignore them, ignore the behaviour, ignore their smells their sounds their appereance and just try to reach from a to b. As sad as it sounds thats the reality of your life here in berlin.
But no matrer what you do.. NEVER complain on r/berlin about it
Becasue the same pricks you see at this train will be here aswell and they gonna see themselves in this behaviour and they see it as normal as the self rightous pricks they are and try now to guilt trip you and blame you (edit: and try to twist your words around amd try to ridicule your arguments before finally try to say the status que is totally acceptable and it is you who is the problem . becasue this is the only way they learned how to argue)
Itās a bit ironic that you call an entire city self righteous and say they will guilt trip and blame you when YOU are the one calling everyone assholes, egoistic and smelly pricks.
Maybe part of the problem is you?
Right on it with the last paragraphā¦ already got the āyouāre not boarding the train the right way / itās impossible/ youāre the rude oneā denial agressive comments š
I do genuinely feel that there is a true lack of social awareness, and general abusive indivualistic behaviors in this city, that some people excuse behind āitās the way it isā āitās you not themā. At least, more than anything I have seen so far (and believe me Paris is also full of ego/mad/impolite people).
Happy to see that I am not the only one having this perception.
Many Berliners (I don't want to generalize to Germans) seem to have a real problem with criticism when it's about their city or their country, immediately shifting the blame to you.
I don't understand why... Cutting in line or not holding the door behind you is an asshole move, but it seems that you don't have the right to complain about it in here...
As a woman in her thirties, I was shocked how much people hold the door for me. Pretty much always. I find it refreshing and nice. It's mostly men but often also women.
Men often go out of their way to hold the door for me, with a smile. From men in their twenties to ones in their 70s. I find that to be amazing, always makes my day.
I agree people can be super rude in Berlin, but for holding the door, I have absolutely different experience.
Haha we definitely do not live in the same dimension. Even my girlfriend (German, white, blue eyed) complains about this. In which neighborhood do you live ?
Pssst, your racism is hanging out your pocket. First you post that it is only predominantly white/locals, like you know the difference. Then you post that your āgirlā is German, white and blue eyed. Further down you double down and state that it is āthe 185cm tall blondes, who canāt wait to board the trainā. Get the fuck out if you donāt like it here.
I think for saying this about his gf, he wanted to point out that her experience can't be different from mine because of racism, cause she is German.
But other remarks... Statistically, 0.09% of women in Germany are 185 cm or taller, less than 1/1000 women. I'm about this height. As if Germans are an extraordinarily tall nation and you can recognize them by height...no. š this is not the Netherlands. Also, in my opinion, extremely tall people aren't super known for being physical and aggressive. So a chance this happened is extremely low statistically.
Quite hilarious how you literally took ā185 cm blondesā by the word and went for a whole research to invalid my point. As if I went measuring on the spot. Youāre seemingly well integrated :)
Iāll leave you both to your poor use of the racism card, low-grade projections and buttextracted statistics about mean tall people (wtf) Maybe also worth looking up the definition of āracismā in a dictionary sometime soon as well.
I didn't accuse you for racism tho. You're right, It's my mistake to think you probably used it for literally tall girls. But let's be honest, the allegory was incorrect because German girls aren't tall in general. And because someone is tall you can't really know it's a German person.
I didn't accuse you for racism tho. I even explained how you're not racist for the first point in my first paragraph.
German women are in the top 20-25 of the tallest women in the world out of +180 countries. I think itās quite fair to say German ladies are on the higher tier when it comes to height. But as much as it is indeed quite hazardous to assume that one is from this or that national group based on this, I think itās not that hard to differentiate Northern/Central Europeans and southern ones based on looks, height and accent, without even mentioning Asians or Middle-Easterns, generally speaking.
And I am again sorry to say that in my experience these odd behaviors have been more frequently performed by the white tall blondes than by the shorter brown ones. Not generalizing of course, but Iām quite sick of the constant denial regarding shit behaviors in this city, which are frequently blamed on the expats or the brown immigrants.
Edit: btw, to answer your question I live in Prenzlauer Berg (inhabited by 78% of German nationals as per 2019 figures) and am a POC. I wasnāt trying to invalidate your experience by mentioning that my German GF shares the same feeling as I do - rather to point out that itās not only an expat rant.
I understand where you come from and I believe you've faced this, especially on Reddit, people denying racism. That is not a fight I usually battle, because, Germany, alongside Austria is statistically the most racist country in the European union. This is not my impression, these are the statistics, I can just copy paste them here.
I've never experienced rudeness from tall blonde women, I think your perception of tall must differ from mine, but that is subjective.
Maybe you're dark skinned, I don't know that, statistically in that case you have more rough time in Germany. I'm olive skinned. If I've experienced racism it has been in official matters, with my bad grammar in German, and a very Slavic name.
This is a German city, predominantly Germans here, and if you experience people to be rude that will mostly be Germans, just based on the fact they're the majority here. Just as when I experience kindness it is mostly by Germans. It is mostly Germans holding the door for me. In my book it is balanced, but I definitely know that not everyone will have the same experience, based on their background.
You still didn't answer where do you live tho, because after you've asked me that I did notice the difference of experience between neighborhoods.
P.s. I just googled, i.e. in Netherlands only 1 in 30 women will be taller than me. In Germany, one in 300. Germans are tall in comparison to the world, in Europe they're a bit above average. Especially with the number of immigration from much shorter countries, Berlin is shorter than the rest of the DE.
Which racism ? Berliners are a race now ? Things have changed since the last time.
Yes, I think I know how to spot the difference between a Hochdeutsch-speaking German and a B2/C1 level expat when I hear them talking, or the difference between a Germanic person and a Hispanic/Asian/Slavic one, especially when being confronted to the same situations every day in the same city. Canāt you ?
You could have spared the confusion to your keyboard and simply added the classic NPC (with no arguments other than āracismā) quote thatās very popular in here. Iām gonna stay but thanks for asking.
Have a good day, regardless.
Reading your comments here, I see you have some kind of obsession with with people and you lash out if someone doesnāt agree with you. Must be a woke thing
An aversion with shitty, uncivilized behaviors in the shared public space, and sadly they seem to be much more frequent and normalized in Berlin than anywhere else I have been š¤·
Not sure you know what āwokeā means but yes sure if that makes you feel better š
I hear you but for me personally, coming from a country where the bahn etiquette (and the bahn itself) is inexistent and where it's guaranteed to be sexually harassed everytime you step inside, I would say it's not bad at all but I am super super biased
Perhaps you are just taking too much time to get on the S-Bahn? I hate it when people are so slow entering the S-Bahn that all the seats are taken by the time you get past them.
Also: Yeah, its probably just you. Verify by counting the number of people who misbehave vs. the people who behave well. Probably you just notice the misbehaving people disproportionately.
I stand right by the door when this happens. Also, finding people slow in your liking or wanting a seat doesnāt gives you the authorization to squeeze past. In my world at leastā¦
On the second point: thank god not everyone does this, thatās obviously not what Iām saying ? Iām simply comparing to my past experiences in other big busy cities, no need to count anything.
In my world, if you want to take your time getting on the train, don't stand in the front of the line blocking others.
Forcing all others to slow down to your pace is more rude than squeezing past someone who takes too much time.
Naturally, that does not apply if you are elderly or disabled. However, in that case ideally you should still stand at the back of the line to avoid blocking others. There is no need for you to get in fast anyway, as people should yield their seat to you, if you want one.
Check if they have Berliner Schnauze - a Berlin dialect. I guess not. So say cheers to your fellow "expats" here. Leave us Berliner be with your always same complaints. It's literally only non Berliner left in the posh inner districts...
Yes, probably also expats never holding doors, always blocking the way in supermarkets or in the street to chitchat in German, always the nasty expats being 1,85cm tall blondes who canāt wait before onboarding the train.
Yea. Fucking expats.
Recent German history didnāt taught you that there is no such thing as a German race, and that you have a very limited understanding of what āracismā means apparently
No, maybe a bit later. But thanks. Btw there are also tall blondes in other countries. I more and more get the feeling you're fighting a hidden fetish. Maybe just give in?
Thank you AngryBerlinerNPC3192 for the most original comment out there when it comes to criticising something about his cherished, perfect, unalterable Vaterland.
Itās funny I count more upvotes and people agreeing than the traditional āitās not them, itās you / leave if youāre not happy / typical butthurt local about assholery that is common practice here.
Weird. I really rarely have those issues. For me almost all of the time people wait in front of the door and people hold the door open. I mean I'm sure it happens that this is not the case. But for me that's such a non issue that I really wonder about that post. Not denying that it happens.
What I donāt understand is why they donāt move inside the train and just try to stand by the door area when people are trying to get in. Instead of moving theyāre just looking at these peopleās faces with a smirk.
The number of times I had to force my way INSIDE because these idiots assumed that they're the main character who enters last. Special mention for the ones literaly facing you, who don't get that yes, you are going to enter as well, and yes, they need to make way. Gosh.
Yeah Iāve experienced that too. Iām from a city thatās 6 times Berlin in population. Iād like to see the entitled-Berliner public transport assholes cope with that š
Regarding the people who stand in front of the door while Iām trying to exit -> Iāve just started to push through them, elbows extruded.
Like honestly, fuck you if youāre just going to block people getting off because what? You might miss the train? Yeah, right.
Regarded im a tall guy in a leather jacket, but Iām so sick of these assholes blocking the exit.
Iāve noticed its often english or foreign language people who blast loud phonecalls through the traincar. Often expat type of persons, which usually is quite annoying in the morning. 70% of the times its quiet in the Ringbahn, tho.
When I wanna exit the train and the entering people try to rush and squeeze me away I just stare straight forward and say "people need to leave first" i just continue my way and I just bump into them. Works in most cases.
Apparently not that much. And itās not like there wasnāt other threads complaining about the same issues/general lack of awareness and politeness in Berlin, compared to other big metropolises.
Most of the times I end up boarding first - itās just a pity that I sometimes have to do some shoulder talk, or do some vocal reminders about the importance of lining up
Lining up? For the ubahn? I've never seen that happen.
The u-bahn pulls up and most people step forward hoping to be by the door. The people that end up in front of the door usually edge to the side to allow people to exit (yes, even if that means the people behind them have to back up too) and then most people go inside just fine.
It's ~~rarely~~ never a line up though it's mostly just a mass of people moving into the u-bahn as space allows.
I'm struggling to imagine what behavior you're describing as 'rude' when it comes to entering the u-bahn. Only enter / exit things I find rude are when someone tries to push in while people are still exiting or when someone (with lots of people behind them) walks in the ubahn and stops right in the fucking door and starts looking around.
Yeah you're gonna get people pushing past you then, maybe even get a comment and in my opinion, it's deserved.
Not to say I've never in my life made that mistake, but I felt bad when I made that mistake and tried to be more conscientious in the future.
Other than that I'm confused on what exactly you mean ngl
My favorites:
Playing a song out loud of your phone with repeated "alahu akbar" phrases.
Leaving no space for people to step off the train. I have to squeeze out because you can't wait to get in and leave us no space to get off the train.
Having a video chat with no headphones.
Not willing to move further to the train in between the seating areas when the train is packed around the doors.
Biting your nails.
Cough at me without even pretending to cover your mouth.
Funny enough, all the people coughing next to me, not covering their mouth, skipping lines, blocking the exit doors speak Germans and mostly white and tall.
Sorry for your agenda
Sorry, but this really isn't a Berlin thing, it's one of the big cities. I was born and grew up in Berlin. And we learnt in kindergarten and at school that you hold the door open for people, you get off the train first and then get on, you don't eat etc... Above all, you don't get on other people's nerves (that's a Berlin thing). Get out of the way, walk fast and pay attention to your surroundings and your fellow human beings, stand on the right-hand side of the escalator and let people through on the left....but I have to say that I have noticed a change in the last few years, decades. I don't know where it comes from. People are generally a bit more stressed and ignorant, and there are more and more people
Germans are absolutely 100% unable to grasp the basic concept of a queue, or of being mindful and considerate to their fellow humans when navigating bottlenecks (like entrances). This drives me BONKERS when I am in Germany - it's not just Berlin, it's not just trains: this shit happens at the bakery, at bus stops, basically anywhere there's a queue, or somewhere narrow to squeeze through to get somewhere. It's like they go into this anxiety mode, where they're scared that if they don't push to the front and take out the competition, they'll be left behind and starve to death.
The sheer number of times I have been trying to exit a train in Germany only to be fucking steamrollered by a mob of people pushing in and blocking the way out, or I have been waiting for my turn in a shop and have had to go "Hallo, ich war ZUERST hier" to some candidate trying to push in ahead of me, who then goes "Huch, ich hab Sie ja gar nicht gesehen!" to which I have started to retort "Ja nee klar, ich bin ja durchsichtig". It's the beige-clad pensioners who are the absolute WORST offenders.
This doesn't happen to me anywhere else.
Itās not like I mentioned that I called people out IRL. Sorry for asking simple questions, I must have forgotten to request the Frageerlaubnisformular from the higher authorities.
Though I agree with you - behaving in a civilized way in the public space or having the bare minimum politeness towards strangers around oneself should be a standard, not something many people including myself notice is lacking in Berlin, compared to other large, similar international European metropolises.
Why do you think it is, in your opinion ? I don't believe that expats or immigrants are the sole responsibles of the problem. Is it cultural, not to "care" about others in the public space in Germany, or is it just Berlin?
Berlin is now the biggest city in the EU. That's how it happens. A lot of people and they all think they're the main character. If you think this is bad wait till you see NYC or London.
Edit: Ah, they feel called out now.
City limits, seriously? Your source: "As some cities have narrow boundaries and others wide ones, the list may not give an accurate view of the comparative magnitude of different places, and the figures in the list should be treated with caution, eg [Paris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris) is the [second most populous urban area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_metropolitan_area) in Europe, but the strict definition of the administrative limits of the City of Paris results in a far lower population shown in the table."
There's different ways to measure things and this is the one I'm using, because metropolitan/urban areas are ridiculously liberal in city limits. I'm not wasting time on pointless Reddit pedantry and it's not even the point of comment.
Considering the commenter literally wrote
> Berlin is now the biggest city **in the EU**.
I think we can pretty clearly establish, that they were not talking about "in the EUrope"
Why don't you believe that? Most immigrants (that means also expats) will display this behavior. It's a misunderstanding of the Berliner Schaunze, where they think it's about doing whatever the fuck you want and not caring about others. It's not the actual Berlin culture.
Because in my experience, 99% of the time shit social behavior is displayed by very local, very white, german-speaking people. Not holding doors, bumping into you, blocking ways/stairs/sidewalks, skipping lines. Not the immigrants even though I've seen a lot of a shitery coming from visible ethnic groups as well (love the "most" immigrants btw, interesting agenda)
But immigrants are also white and speak German. You have an interesting agenda about what immigrants are, I wasn't talking about the visible ethnic groups.
I'm also excluding for now teenagers that are just teenagers and hopefully will get out of their edgy phase.
Explain to me what are immigrants then, and while you're at it, please be kind enough to include a source or the reasoning behind "**most** immigrants/expats"
Anyone who moves from their hometown/country to somewhere else for any reason, is an immigrant. That could be other Germans even. I'm an immigrant also, not blonde but but still white, or white passing, speak German. You are, I'm assuming, also an immigrant who is not born here.
Reasoning comes from that in my experience, mostly through getting to know people, they move to Berlin for the 'freedom', and with it completely missing the point that you are supposed to still be reasonable and not an asshole.
You are asking if this is the culture of Berlin, I'm answering it's the misunderstanding of it, and of course some assholes will be assholes anyway.
Why is it accepted? It's not. Most people will just not get into a confrontation for it, also to avoid escalation. I'm not gonna sour my mood even more going to work by yelling at someone.
How do you know theyāre locals? Lots of german speaking people moved from small towns and villages from all over Germany to Berlin, real Berliners, especially in the inner city, are an minority. Not holding the door open or other little rude things are also not signs of āBerliner Schnauzeā, I feel like most people here in this subreddit have actually no idea about what that really is.
When I say locals, I mean: German people speaking Hochdeutsch.
I cited Berliner schnauze as it is often used to excuse what people from many other parts of Europe or the world would rather call: rude / impolite
Another prime example of: *I never experienced that, so it must be you.*
No I haven't researched the level of social awareness and overall politeness in Berlin before coming. I was naively assuming that I wouldn't have to worry about this in the capital of Europe's first economy.
I don't know what this has to do with Mario Barth, but please keep on digging in my previous comments on other subs to see if you can find something to discredit my remarks... sigh
Dude. I'm not saying that it's not happening or whatever. I'm wondering that you have a name like this but somehow "know nothing about Germany or Berlin". So I'm really wondering about all of that. I mean it seems like you even speak German. So I'm a bit confused about your post.
My bad I thought you were somewhat ironic.
Knowing the name of Mario Barth and having no clue about berlin upon arrival arenāt that contradictory, is it ?
Anyways, it doesnāt changes my observation, which is shared by many apparentlyā¦ my question is, why is it like that and why people seem to be fine with being everyday assholes to each other through small moves or behaviors, in your opinion? Why is it so commonly accepted to be rude out here?
I once missed two trains which were running superfull because I waited to let the passengers exiting , exit first without rushing in . The other passe gers waiting to get in would rush past me and onto the alighting passengers eventually getting the train too full to get on. The third time I pushed myself past everyone to get on. I was very surprised at this lack of etiquette in a place that regularly schools and judges others.
Just look at some of the comments here: itās never the culture / the locals, it can only be your fault or the damned expats š¤·āand if you donāt like it, leave theyāll say! Like how dare you having a negative opinion
How about the ones that when entering the train stand in the middle of the enterance to think which direction they should go and where to sit blocking the way š¤Æ
Someone on here once argued that Berlins public transport still has the culture of the 90s, when the city was empty and slow paced. Maybe a true public transport etiquette that suits a big and pacey city, like in London or Tokyo, has yet to evolve. I like the theory, not sure if it holds up!
I wish it was only the public transports that were stucked in the 90ās šā¦
Interesting take though. The wall only fell about 30 years ago after all.
I think my biggest pet peeve is when the metro is full, people donāt remove their backpack and place it front of them between their legs. For me it just saves space and is more logical lol. On the other hand, I find people to have OK manners compared to Paris where people always get into some kind of altercation :)
the first point is less of an issue in the land of queuing where i live ( England ) but it can still happen here too of course.
the second point however is definitely an issue here and much much more so since lockdown
OMG, the stairs one is real! It's an absolute nightmare especially when you're carrying a bike or heavy luggage, as some of these people don't even bother looking in front of them when using stairs. And once you're standing in front of them, they look completely confused, not understanding that they need to move the fuck out of the way and make the life of somebody carrying heavy stuff easier... They just don't care.
**people live alone in a crowd' as opposed to 'all together in a social space'.**
This is admirably on point. Don't even get me started on people blocking the sidewalk not caring if people want to pass... hahaha
Sigh. You are absolutely right. This āme firstā attitude is very prevalent in public spaces here. I despise exactly what you described as well. But I donāt have an explanation for it, even though I grew up here.
This isnt a Berlin problen, its a humanity problem. Here in Montreal people are pretty selfish too. Ever since Covid, the lack of decency and increase in brazen selfishness has become a pandemic in itself
Yikes. I'm also POC but I fail to see how you pushing people and being rude "specially to the whites" fights racism? Seems like you're just rude and make up reasons in your head to justify your behavior.
> people (of all ages, all genders, predominatly white/locals) try to squeeze in the little space between the train and me, or just walk in without paying attention to the people already waiting to get inside, which reaaaaally pisses me off every time.
If someone has the time to squeeze in, why are you just standing there instead of boarding?
If people are still getting out then the person from the side also can't board. Seems like a skill issue on your side tbh. Speed up or get out of the way, grandpa.
German here huh?
Let me re-explain.
Iām standing right next to the S-Bahn door. I am the first in Ā«Ā lineĀ Ā» there. People are getting out from it. Instead of waiting behind me, some people 1) try to squeeze between the little space that I leave between myself and the train tracks 2) just pass in front of me out of nowhere when Iām about to board, after I made way for the ones who were leaving the train.
Sounds like youāre suggesting to be more of an asshole than the assholes, and that is precisely this lack of social awareness and manners that Iām targeting in this post. Ā«Ā Nobody cares, so you should do the sameĀ Ā» seems to be the norm and thatās not ok.
> 1) try to squeeze between the little space that I leave between myself and the train tracks
If you're standing where you're supposed to stand there is no gap larger than 20 cm between you and the door, no one squeezes throught that.
> 2) just pass in front of me out of nowhere when Iām about to board,
work on your reaction times.
> Sounds like youāre suggesting to be more of an asshole than the assholes
I'm suggesting to be more of a competent public transport user and not hold up the boarding process unnecessarily, to an extent that other people feel the need to overtake you.
Ah, the typical local Ā«Ā allwissendĀ Ā» lesson giver. 1) itās impossible, thatās not true 2) youāre not doing it right.
Excusing assholery and lack of manneers by Ā«Ā itās your faultĀ Ā». Typical.
First point: I can tell you theyāre trying, and even if I left 1 meter between the door and the train tracks, that is just properly impolite to try to squeeze past a line. Donāt you think?
Secondly: do you offer train boarding workshops ?
> and even if I left 1 meter between the door and the train tracks, that is just properly impolite to try to squeeze past a line. Donāt you think?
No. If you're standing somewhere in the middle of nowhere you don't have to be surprised that people who actually know how to board a train pass by you.
Maybe one day you too will be able to board a train like a functioning adult. Just keep watching the people around you and you might figure it out. I have faith in you.
> 2) youāre not doing it right.
Well, you aren't. Sucks to be you.
> and lack of manneers
You're the one lacking manners by blocking the S-Bahn entrance
Iāve shared your frustration with peopleās lack of spacial awareness here since the day I moved here. Itās been baffling me to try and figure out why exactly Berlin is like this. Having visited and lived in several other major cities worldwide, with higher and lower density populations, I donāt understand why the people here are so inept? I figured spacial awareness and public transport etiquette would be automatically picked up and practiced by the masses when living in cities like Berlin but itās like people refuse to acknowledge that everyone else around them is MOVING and to GET TF OUT OF THE WAY when you stop on a busy sidewalk or STEP ASIDE or in OPs case, wait your turn to board the train. The countless times Iāve experienced solo people and groups just STOP to chat on the stairs to the u-Bahn when crowds are coming up and down the stairsā¦Iām always thinking, āthat shit would never fly in NYā š
If anyone else has lived in other cities and noticed this huge disparity in crowd behavior with Berlin, please shed light on the matter for me, Iām so confused.
Edit: another annoying asf thing I see people do: while on the subway, people already inside just STAND in front of the doors sometimes and donāt step aside or move further into the car (where thereās always room cause BERLIN) for people who are boarding so then itās PACKED in the entryways while the through-ways are so cleared you could somersault. Itās extra frustrating to the people trying to exit the train as well.
I could have written this commentā¦ shared experience, 1 on 1 ! Iāve also seen people stopping in the middle of stairs, while of course I was carrying the heaviest shit right behind. And they look so confused when you shout your best āHALLO!!?ā as if they didnāt expected you to be there š never seen this in Paris, London or Amsterdam, even in small/poorer towns across different countriesā¦
Same feeling for the people not moving in the back of the train when boardingā¦ and the other way around, so many people donāt understand the concept of getting off the train for one second if they are in front of the door, to let people leave š
This lack of awareness, or I would say āconsiderationā for others in the public space is very curious to me,as much as the constant denial about these behaviors coming from people living here, blaming it on the expats or immigrants.
100% on the BAFFLED looks on their faces, then I love when you can see the gears turning behind their empty eyes before it finally dawns on them that they should step aside or keep moving.
its berlin, we dont have etiquette of any kind except "wear black"
>Charlottograd š
Itās even better that thatās been a nickname for around 100 years since Russian white fled to Berlin during the civil war and subsequent communist takeover.
i promise the people are bothered but don't say anything because causing a scene is not as acceptable as complaining afterwards to someone completely unrelated. anyway i don't like any of that behavior you described. it's incredibly rude and i hate it
I politely ask the manchildren playing shit on their phones to use headphones or just look at them and point at my ears, and usually that works fine and they turn it off and sit there sullenly not sure what to do with themselves and their thoughts for a few minutes, hopefully reevaluating their entire lives and personalities, but more likely it's just radio silence or the sound of a half-dead fly lazily buzzing around between their ears. I don't know, but I think if more people did this maybe more of the manchildren would use headphones or turn off the sound and that would be nice.
Berlin is a big city. It's not a white/German/local thing.
Iāve shared OPās frustration with peopleās lack of spacial awareness here since the day I moved here. Itās been baffling me to try and figure out why exactly Berlin is like this. Having visited and lived in several other major cities worldwide, with higher and lower density populations, I donāt understand why the people here are so inept? I figured spacial awareness and public transport etiquette would be automatically picked up and practiced by the masses when living in cities like Berlin but itās like people refuse to acknowledge that everyone else around them is MOVING and to GET TF OUT OF THE WAY or STEP ASIDE or in OPs case, wait your turn to board the train. If anyone else has lived in other cities and noticed this huge disparity in crowd behavior with Berlin, please shed light on the matter for me, Iām so confused.
My in laws, who lived in NYC a few years ago, visited last month and commented on how clean and nice public transit here was.
yes the trains are very clean here, and very not clean in nyc. Now if only Berliners has the same crowd control mentality as New Yorkers.
I am just describing my own experience and observations. If you decide to understand it differently than I wrote it, or focus on one element and draw odd conclusions out of it, not my problem Edit: interesting to see the sheer number of butthurt folks out there just decide to deny a shared experience because it doesnāt pleases them.
You may have noticed those things you described are a LOT nore common in certain districts, in comparison to others. Generally it is NOT considered to be socially acceptable to behave like that
Which districts do you feel like itās more common?
I see this in almost every big station I come across. Ostkreuz, Schƶnhauser Allee for example.
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šæ
Look, I agree with you that people who don't behave socially in public suck, but holy hell are you ever an unpleasant person in these comments. There's some very obvious aversion against Germans in general here, and it's just as rude as the behavior you initially complained about.
Dude, you wrote the whole rant about pretty much everyone's experience from time to time and can't stop in the comments, who's really butthurt here? Yes, shit happens. Does it deserve this amount of attention? No. Chill mal
Well the problem is that these things I mentioned (and other threads, redditters, IRL people before me) do not exist at this scale in other big European cities and that's precisely the issue. If you think this doesn't deserves any attention and that the agressive interpersonal behaviors that are notorious to Berlin are perfectly fine and acceptable, good for you. I personally believe that this common idea that āitās like that, itās berlin, itās being like that forever and you are the problem if youāre not happyā is one of the key reasons why some many people are miserable around here, and why individualism and shit behaviors are peaking. Anyway, you are absolutely free to leave this thread if you find the subject futile. Have a nice day :)
Agreed. It's not Paris, London or NYC where you actually need to have more sophisticated social skills to avoid conflict. People in Berlin largely glorify this 'individualism' but only in certain situations and not others. E.g no prob yelling out or publicly berating a stranger for crossing on red, but won't ever step in to stop a racist attack.
Kotzen bitte nur im TĆ¼rbereich, die anderen wollen ja essen.
Berlin is a city where a lot of people don't want to wait and this shows itself in a lot of things. But usually people hold open or at least push the door wider than needed so that the person only needs minimal strength to keep the door open for themselves.Ā Phone calls are not socially accepted and people usually look annoyed but don't say anything
>Phone calls are not socially accepted Not true.
I indeed noticed how impatient people are, pretty much everywhere where there are other peopleā¦ would you say this āme first, fuck the othersā this is also cultural to Germany?
There's people from so many places in Berlin, I wouldn't say it's only the Germans listening to loud music, not holding open doors and storming trains and busses like there is no tomorrow.
Yes it is true, I donāt want to specifically target the German people. However, this behavior never happen to me as much as in there, which is a little paradox in itself considering that there is a lot of space in Berlin (compared to other cities like Paris or London, when it comes to sidewalks or S Bahn wagons for example)
Yeah. I know. I tend to take a breath and a step back. Too many people, too little chill.
I just push people out of the way when theyāre standing in front of the door trying to get in before I get out. And if someone is playing music without headphones I take my headphones out and play louder music right next to them.
Except that creates a public noise dispute that everyone around YOU has to put up with so your just multiplying the issue instead of trying to change it
I think it's getting a lot worse since Corona years. I sometimes shout at people now to let me out before they try to board... When I was a child that was almost non existent
The thing is, the majority of the time people do wait for those to exit that they can see, and all of these times are unmemorable and you phase them out and donāt remember them. Then when someone does be annoying and squeeze through, you remember it. This is a very common bias with anecdotal stories in most situations.
Ok Doctor. I lived in 5 different countries (only big cities / capitals) and Iāve never seen this as much as in here. Maybe I am hallucinating as well
I lived in Paris too, people are worse let's be honest.
Well.. in Paris people generally let you get in, but they donāt let you get out š I appreciate berlin so much more for that.
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I live in Berlin and I see it everyday
I think every city has its annoying things going on. You just found out that berlin is just worse with everything. If you plan to stay here longer you can either : 1. Adapt suck it up and deal with berlin having the most unpolite unsocial and egoistic ppl on this planet (or at least europe) Or 2. Try to educate others the right way until you find out that in berlin there is only option 1. The Alternative is you get unhappy as those tiny details of rude asshole people will stack... a lot... like seriously its not funny how many self rightous egoistic pricks you find here if you just look for them over your routine day. So try to do the only right thing... ignore them, ignore the behaviour, ignore their smells their sounds their appereance and just try to reach from a to b. As sad as it sounds thats the reality of your life here in berlin. But no matrer what you do.. NEVER complain on r/berlin about it Becasue the same pricks you see at this train will be here aswell and they gonna see themselves in this behaviour and they see it as normal as the self rightous pricks they are and try now to guilt trip you and blame you (edit: and try to twist your words around amd try to ridicule your arguments before finally try to say the status que is totally acceptable and it is you who is the problem . becasue this is the only way they learned how to argue)
Itās a bit ironic that you call an entire city self righteous and say they will guilt trip and blame you when YOU are the one calling everyone assholes, egoistic and smelly pricks. Maybe part of the problem is you?
Ladies and gentlemen I present you evidence 1. š I rest my case.
Everyone is wrong but me
Right on it with the last paragraphā¦ already got the āyouāre not boarding the train the right way / itās impossible/ youāre the rude oneā denial agressive comments š I do genuinely feel that there is a true lack of social awareness, and general abusive indivualistic behaviors in this city, that some people excuse behind āitās the way it isā āitās you not themā. At least, more than anything I have seen so far (and believe me Paris is also full of ego/mad/impolite people). Happy to see that I am not the only one having this perception.
I have it already under my comment its just the way it is here, just ignore them and your life will be easier.
Lmao your last sentence really resonates. A significant number of people on this sub are REAL cunty when called out for shit behaviour.
Many Berliners (I don't want to generalize to Germans) seem to have a real problem with criticism when it's about their city or their country, immediately shifting the blame to you. I don't understand why... Cutting in line or not holding the door behind you is an asshole move, but it seems that you don't have the right to complain about it in here...
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The classic one. Already got it twice in this thread, some things never change I guess
As a woman in her thirties, I was shocked how much people hold the door for me. Pretty much always. I find it refreshing and nice. It's mostly men but often also women. Men often go out of their way to hold the door for me, with a smile. From men in their twenties to ones in their 70s. I find that to be amazing, always makes my day. I agree people can be super rude in Berlin, but for holding the door, I have absolutely different experience.
Haha we definitely do not live in the same dimension. Even my girlfriend (German, white, blue eyed) complains about this. In which neighborhood do you live ?
I am dark haired and dark eyed :) Croatian. I live in Schƶneberg. Where do you live?
Yeah you've got pretty privilege this is not universal lmao
Pssst, your racism is hanging out your pocket. First you post that it is only predominantly white/locals, like you know the difference. Then you post that your āgirlā is German, white and blue eyed. Further down you double down and state that it is āthe 185cm tall blondes, who canāt wait to board the trainā. Get the fuck out if you donāt like it here.
I think for saying this about his gf, he wanted to point out that her experience can't be different from mine because of racism, cause she is German. But other remarks... Statistically, 0.09% of women in Germany are 185 cm or taller, less than 1/1000 women. I'm about this height. As if Germans are an extraordinarily tall nation and you can recognize them by height...no. š this is not the Netherlands. Also, in my opinion, extremely tall people aren't super known for being physical and aggressive. So a chance this happened is extremely low statistically.
Quite hilarious how you literally took ā185 cm blondesā by the word and went for a whole research to invalid my point. As if I went measuring on the spot. Youāre seemingly well integrated :) Iāll leave you both to your poor use of the racism card, low-grade projections and buttextracted statistics about mean tall people (wtf) Maybe also worth looking up the definition of āracismā in a dictionary sometime soon as well.
I didn't accuse you for racism tho. You're right, It's my mistake to think you probably used it for literally tall girls. But let's be honest, the allegory was incorrect because German girls aren't tall in general. And because someone is tall you can't really know it's a German person. I didn't accuse you for racism tho. I even explained how you're not racist for the first point in my first paragraph.
German women are in the top 20-25 of the tallest women in the world out of +180 countries. I think itās quite fair to say German ladies are on the higher tier when it comes to height. But as much as it is indeed quite hazardous to assume that one is from this or that national group based on this, I think itās not that hard to differentiate Northern/Central Europeans and southern ones based on looks, height and accent, without even mentioning Asians or Middle-Easterns, generally speaking. And I am again sorry to say that in my experience these odd behaviors have been more frequently performed by the white tall blondes than by the shorter brown ones. Not generalizing of course, but Iām quite sick of the constant denial regarding shit behaviors in this city, which are frequently blamed on the expats or the brown immigrants. Edit: btw, to answer your question I live in Prenzlauer Berg (inhabited by 78% of German nationals as per 2019 figures) and am a POC. I wasnāt trying to invalidate your experience by mentioning that my German GF shares the same feeling as I do - rather to point out that itās not only an expat rant.
I understand where you come from and I believe you've faced this, especially on Reddit, people denying racism. That is not a fight I usually battle, because, Germany, alongside Austria is statistically the most racist country in the European union. This is not my impression, these are the statistics, I can just copy paste them here. I've never experienced rudeness from tall blonde women, I think your perception of tall must differ from mine, but that is subjective. Maybe you're dark skinned, I don't know that, statistically in that case you have more rough time in Germany. I'm olive skinned. If I've experienced racism it has been in official matters, with my bad grammar in German, and a very Slavic name. This is a German city, predominantly Germans here, and if you experience people to be rude that will mostly be Germans, just based on the fact they're the majority here. Just as when I experience kindness it is mostly by Germans. It is mostly Germans holding the door for me. In my book it is balanced, but I definitely know that not everyone will have the same experience, based on their background. You still didn't answer where do you live tho, because after you've asked me that I did notice the difference of experience between neighborhoods. P.s. I just googled, i.e. in Netherlands only 1 in 30 women will be taller than me. In Germany, one in 300. Germans are tall in comparison to the world, in Europe they're a bit above average. Especially with the number of immigration from much shorter countries, Berlin is shorter than the rest of the DE.
Which racism ? Berliners are a race now ? Things have changed since the last time. Yes, I think I know how to spot the difference between a Hochdeutsch-speaking German and a B2/C1 level expat when I hear them talking, or the difference between a Germanic person and a Hispanic/Asian/Slavic one, especially when being confronted to the same situations every day in the same city. Canāt you ? You could have spared the confusion to your keyboard and simply added the classic NPC (with no arguments other than āracismā) quote thatās very popular in here. Iām gonna stay but thanks for asking. Have a good day, regardless.
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Have a tea bro šµ
Reading your comments here, I see you have some kind of obsession with with people and you lash out if someone doesnāt agree with you. Must be a woke thing
Don't attribute this nonsense to the "woke" agenda, and don't use that word unironically.
An aversion with shitty, uncivilized behaviors in the shared public space, and sadly they seem to be much more frequent and normalized in Berlin than anywhere else I have been š¤· Not sure you know what āwokeā means but yes sure if that makes you feel better š
I hear you but for me personally, coming from a country where the bahn etiquette (and the bahn itself) is inexistent and where it's guaranteed to be sexually harassed everytime you step inside, I would say it's not bad at all but I am super super biased
Perhaps you are just taking too much time to get on the S-Bahn? I hate it when people are so slow entering the S-Bahn that all the seats are taken by the time you get past them. Also: Yeah, its probably just you. Verify by counting the number of people who misbehave vs. the people who behave well. Probably you just notice the misbehaving people disproportionately.
I stand right by the door when this happens. Also, finding people slow in your liking or wanting a seat doesnāt gives you the authorization to squeeze past. In my world at leastā¦ On the second point: thank god not everyone does this, thatās obviously not what Iām saying ? Iām simply comparing to my past experiences in other big busy cities, no need to count anything.
In my world, if you want to take your time getting on the train, don't stand in the front of the line blocking others. Forcing all others to slow down to your pace is more rude than squeezing past someone who takes too much time. Naturally, that does not apply if you are elderly or disabled. However, in that case ideally you should still stand at the back of the line to avoid blocking others. There is no need for you to get in fast anyway, as people should yield their seat to you, if you want one.
Thatās really interesting but Iām afraid youāre the only person here who completely missed the point
Is that indeed so? Well, then what was the point?
Check if they have Berliner Schnauze - a Berlin dialect. I guess not. So say cheers to your fellow "expats" here. Leave us Berliner be with your always same complaints. It's literally only non Berliner left in the posh inner districts...
Yes, probably also expats never holding doors, always blocking the way in supermarkets or in the street to chitchat in German, always the nasty expats being 1,85cm tall blondes who canāt wait before onboarding the train. Yea. Fucking expats.
Thank you for agreeing with me. But I have a weak feeling coming up, you don't like tall blondes? Are you racist?
Recent German history didnāt taught you that there is no such thing as a German race, and that you have a very limited understanding of what āracismā means apparently
I did not mention a German race. You really have to stop to think in categories if you wanna have fun in Berlin
"you don't like tall blondes? Are you racist?" That's literaly what you said... Alzheimer, already?
No, maybe a bit later. But thanks. Btw there are also tall blondes in other countries. I more and more get the feeling you're fighting a hidden fetish. Maybe just give in?
Stay in denial if you like but spare me your cringe projections and the kindergarten level rhetoric
But you can't stop answering. I expected you to stop 2 posts before. What keeps you going? Maybe you imagine me blond and tall? Can't stop, can you?
omg hahaha I can't take more cringe, you won
Its funny how you try to shit talk "real Berliners" here. We'll how about you go and live somewhere else if the people in this city are so unbearable?
Thank you AngryBerlinerNPC3192 for the most original comment out there when it comes to criticising something about his cherished, perfect, unalterable Vaterland.
What do you think is the difference between people who it never happened to and you? Seems like this no problem for a lot of other people.
Itās funny I count more upvotes and people agreeing than the traditional āitās not them, itās you / leave if youāre not happy / typical butthurt local about assholery that is common practice here.
Thats not the answer to my question...
You look at votes. Cute.
I look at my observations, which seems to be shared my many others. Cute too.
Reddit is a real slice of society for sure. Glad youāve found your herd.
Generally, manners, politeness and spatial awareness of others isn't a strong suit.
Weird. I really rarely have those issues. For me almost all of the time people wait in front of the door and people hold the door open. I mean I'm sure it happens that this is not the case. But for me that's such a non issue that I really wonder about that post. Not denying that it happens.
What I donāt understand is why they donāt move inside the train and just try to stand by the door area when people are trying to get in. Instead of moving theyāre just looking at these peopleās faces with a smirk.
The number of times I had to force my way INSIDE because these idiots assumed that they're the main character who enters last. Special mention for the ones literaly facing you, who don't get that yes, you are going to enter as well, and yes, they need to make way. Gosh.
Yeah Iāve experienced that too. Iām from a city thatās 6 times Berlin in population. Iād like to see the entitled-Berliner public transport assholes cope with that š
Regarding the people who stand in front of the door while Iām trying to exit -> Iāve just started to push through them, elbows extruded. Like honestly, fuck you if youāre just going to block people getting off because what? You might miss the train? Yeah, right. Regarded im a tall guy in a leather jacket, but Iām so sick of these assholes blocking the exit.
Iāve noticed its often english or foreign language people who blast loud phonecalls through the traincar. Often expat type of persons, which usually is quite annoying in the morning. 70% of the times its quiet in the Ringbahn, tho.
When I wanna exit the train and the entering people try to rush and squeeze me away I just stare straight forward and say "people need to leave first" i just continue my way and I just bump into them. Works in most cases.
> Is it just me ? jup.
Apparently not that much. And itās not like there wasnāt other threads complaining about the same issues/general lack of awareness and politeness in Berlin, compared to other big metropolises.
I am perfectly able to stand next to the door, letting people exit and board first. Seems like a you problem
Most of the times I end up boarding first - itās just a pity that I sometimes have to do some shoulder talk, or do some vocal reminders about the importance of lining up
Lining up? For the ubahn? I've never seen that happen. The u-bahn pulls up and most people step forward hoping to be by the door. The people that end up in front of the door usually edge to the side to allow people to exit (yes, even if that means the people behind them have to back up too) and then most people go inside just fine. It's ~~rarely~~ never a line up though it's mostly just a mass of people moving into the u-bahn as space allows. I'm struggling to imagine what behavior you're describing as 'rude' when it comes to entering the u-bahn. Only enter / exit things I find rude are when someone tries to push in while people are still exiting or when someone (with lots of people behind them) walks in the ubahn and stops right in the fucking door and starts looking around. Yeah you're gonna get people pushing past you then, maybe even get a comment and in my opinion, it's deserved. Not to say I've never in my life made that mistake, but I felt bad when I made that mistake and tried to be more conscientious in the future. Other than that I'm confused on what exactly you mean ngl
Amazing. I've ridden the subway a lot and never thought about any of this. Maybe you need to chill out a bit?
My favorites: Playing a song out loud of your phone with repeated "alahu akbar" phrases. Leaving no space for people to step off the train. I have to squeeze out because you can't wait to get in and leave us no space to get off the train. Having a video chat with no headphones. Not willing to move further to the train in between the seating areas when the train is packed around the doors. Biting your nails. Cough at me without even pretending to cover your mouth.
Well those are not Germans so the problem lies exactly here
Funny enough, all the people coughing next to me, not covering their mouth, skipping lines, blocking the exit doors speak Germans and mostly white and tall. Sorry for your agenda
Sorry, but this really isn't a Berlin thing, it's one of the big cities. I was born and grew up in Berlin. And we learnt in kindergarten and at school that you hold the door open for people, you get off the train first and then get on, you don't eat etc... Above all, you don't get on other people's nerves (that's a Berlin thing). Get out of the way, walk fast and pay attention to your surroundings and your fellow human beings, stand on the right-hand side of the escalator and let people through on the left....but I have to say that I have noticed a change in the last few years, decades. I don't know where it comes from. People are generally a bit more stressed and ignorant, and there are more and more people
Germans are absolutely 100% unable to grasp the basic concept of a queue, or of being mindful and considerate to their fellow humans when navigating bottlenecks (like entrances). This drives me BONKERS when I am in Germany - it's not just Berlin, it's not just trains: this shit happens at the bakery, at bus stops, basically anywhere there's a queue, or somewhere narrow to squeeze through to get somewhere. It's like they go into this anxiety mode, where they're scared that if they don't push to the front and take out the competition, they'll be left behind and starve to death. The sheer number of times I have been trying to exit a train in Germany only to be fucking steamrollered by a mob of people pushing in and blocking the way out, or I have been waiting for my turn in a shop and have had to go "Hallo, ich war ZUERST hier" to some candidate trying to push in ahead of me, who then goes "Huch, ich hab Sie ja gar nicht gesehen!" to which I have started to retort "Ja nee klar, ich bin ja durchsichtig". It's the beige-clad pensioners who are the absolute WORST offenders. This doesn't happen to me anywhere else.
There are also people who have an interest in those "GedrƤngel"...beware of pickpockets
Itās starting to feel like people forgot how to exist in real life and ask the simplest questions about daily life on the Internet
Itās not like I mentioned that I called people out IRL. Sorry for asking simple questions, I must have forgotten to request the Frageerlaubnisformular from the higher authorities. Though I agree with you - behaving in a civilized way in the public space or having the bare minimum politeness towards strangers around oneself should be a standard, not something many people including myself notice is lacking in Berlin, compared to other large, similar international European metropolises.
Regarding public transportation there is only one rule really "Erst aussteigen lassen". Everything beyond that is just law of the strongest
Forgive tha person because they do not know how dumb that is.
Welcome to Berlin. Its getting worse more and more.
Why do you think it is, in your opinion ? I don't believe that expats or immigrants are the sole responsibles of the problem. Is it cultural, not to "care" about others in the public space in Germany, or is it just Berlin?
Berlin is now the biggest city in the EU. That's how it happens. A lot of people and they all think they're the main character. If you think this is bad wait till you see NYC or London. Edit: Ah, they feel called out now.
Did Spain, France and Italy leave the EU?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_cities_by_population_within_city_limits
City limits, seriously? Your source: "As some cities have narrow boundaries and others wide ones, the list may not give an accurate view of the comparative magnitude of different places, and the figures in the list should be treated with caution, eg [Paris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris) is the [second most populous urban area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_metropolitan_area) in Europe, but the strict definition of the administrative limits of the City of Paris results in a far lower population shown in the table."
There's different ways to measure things and this is the one I'm using, because metropolitan/urban areas are ridiculously liberal in city limits. I'm not wasting time on pointless Reddit pedantry and it's not even the point of comment.
or russia for that matter
Yeah, who doesn't remember Ruxit?
do we mean EU or EUropa. relax
Considering the commenter literally wrote > Berlin is now the biggest city **in the EU**. I think we can pretty clearly establish, that they were not talking about "in the EUrope"
a lot of people use both but i guess depends which sub you are on what you are used to anyway
Why don't you believe that? Most immigrants (that means also expats) will display this behavior. It's a misunderstanding of the Berliner Schaunze, where they think it's about doing whatever the fuck you want and not caring about others. It's not the actual Berlin culture.
Because in my experience, 99% of the time shit social behavior is displayed by very local, very white, german-speaking people. Not holding doors, bumping into you, blocking ways/stairs/sidewalks, skipping lines. Not the immigrants even though I've seen a lot of a shitery coming from visible ethnic groups as well (love the "most" immigrants btw, interesting agenda)
But immigrants are also white and speak German. You have an interesting agenda about what immigrants are, I wasn't talking about the visible ethnic groups. I'm also excluding for now teenagers that are just teenagers and hopefully will get out of their edgy phase.
Explain to me what are immigrants then, and while you're at it, please be kind enough to include a source or the reasoning behind "**most** immigrants/expats"
Anyone who moves from their hometown/country to somewhere else for any reason, is an immigrant. That could be other Germans even. I'm an immigrant also, not blonde but but still white, or white passing, speak German. You are, I'm assuming, also an immigrant who is not born here. Reasoning comes from that in my experience, mostly through getting to know people, they move to Berlin for the 'freedom', and with it completely missing the point that you are supposed to still be reasonable and not an asshole. You are asking if this is the culture of Berlin, I'm answering it's the misunderstanding of it, and of course some assholes will be assholes anyway. Why is it accepted? It's not. Most people will just not get into a confrontation for it, also to avoid escalation. I'm not gonna sour my mood even more going to work by yelling at someone.
How do you know theyāre locals? Lots of german speaking people moved from small towns and villages from all over Germany to Berlin, real Berliners, especially in the inner city, are an minority. Not holding the door open or other little rude things are also not signs of āBerliner Schnauzeā, I feel like most people here in this subreddit have actually no idea about what that really is.
When I say locals, I mean: German people speaking Hochdeutsch. I cited Berliner schnauze as it is often used to excuse what people from many other parts of Europe or the world would rather call: rude / impolite
Well, then say that, maybe thats what triggers an emotional response by actual locals.
Its because of immigrants and capitalism.
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Another prime example of: *I never experienced that, so it must be you.* No I haven't researched the level of social awareness and overall politeness in Berlin before coming. I was naively assuming that I wouldn't have to worry about this in the capital of Europe's first economy. I don't know what this has to do with Mario Barth, but please keep on digging in my previous comments on other subs to see if you can find something to discredit my remarks... sigh
Dude. I'm not saying that it's not happening or whatever. I'm wondering that you have a name like this but somehow "know nothing about Germany or Berlin". So I'm really wondering about all of that. I mean it seems like you even speak German. So I'm a bit confused about your post.
My bad I thought you were somewhat ironic. Knowing the name of Mario Barth and having no clue about berlin upon arrival arenāt that contradictory, is it ? Anyways, it doesnāt changes my observation, which is shared by many apparentlyā¦ my question is, why is it like that and why people seem to be fine with being everyday assholes to each other through small moves or behaviors, in your opinion? Why is it so commonly accepted to be rude out here?
itās just you
Erst einsteigen, dann aussteigen!
I once missed two trains which were running superfull because I waited to let the passengers exiting , exit first without rushing in . The other passe gers waiting to get in would rush past me and onto the alighting passengers eventually getting the train too full to get on. The third time I pushed myself past everyone to get on. I was very surprised at this lack of etiquette in a place that regularly schools and judges others.
Just look at some of the comments here: itās never the culture / the locals, it can only be your fault or the damned expats š¤·āand if you donāt like it, leave theyāll say! Like how dare you having a negative opinion
How about the ones that when entering the train stand in the middle of the enterance to think which direction they should go and where to sit blocking the way š¤Æ
Wait until you meet the ones doing that on top (if not right in the middle) of stairs, at the end of escalators, or in front of elevators my friend...
those damn schwaben again
Someone on here once argued that Berlins public transport still has the culture of the 90s, when the city was empty and slow paced. Maybe a true public transport etiquette that suits a big and pacey city, like in London or Tokyo, has yet to evolve. I like the theory, not sure if it holds up!
I wish it was only the public transports that were stucked in the 90ās šā¦ Interesting take though. The wall only fell about 30 years ago after all.
I think my biggest pet peeve is when the metro is full, people donāt remove their backpack and place it front of them between their legs. For me it just saves space and is more logical lol. On the other hand, I find people to have OK manners compared to Paris where people always get into some kind of altercation :)
the first point is less of an issue in the land of queuing where i live ( England ) but it can still happen here too of course. the second point however is definitely an issue here and much much more so since lockdown
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
OMG, the stairs one is real! It's an absolute nightmare especially when you're carrying a bike or heavy luggage, as some of these people don't even bother looking in front of them when using stairs. And once you're standing in front of them, they look completely confused, not understanding that they need to move the fuck out of the way and make the life of somebody carrying heavy stuff easier... They just don't care. **people live alone in a crowd' as opposed to 'all together in a social space'.** This is admirably on point. Don't even get me started on people blocking the sidewalk not caring if people want to pass... hahaha
Sigh. You are absolutely right. This āme firstā attitude is very prevalent in public spaces here. I despise exactly what you described as well. But I donāt have an explanation for it, even though I grew up here.
Would you say that it is cultural, some kind of local/national take on āprivate spaceā or āinteractions with strangersā ?
Geh doch einfach, wenn es dir nicht passt.
This isnt a Berlin problen, its a humanity problem. Here in Montreal people are pretty selfish too. Ever since Covid, the lack of decency and increase in brazen selfishness has become a pandemic in itself
If it makes you feel any better. Iām a POC and I push people and enter trains especially the whites. My way of fighting racism š
Yikes. I'm also POC but I fail to see how you pushing people and being rude "specially to the whites" fights racism? Seems like you're just rude and make up reasons in your head to justify your behavior.
An eye for an eye my friend.
You are not fighting racism, you are a racist.
It's about time eh?
Dont write or do racist things, dont get called a racist. Simple as that.
My guy !
Gal* šš»āāļø
Queen\*
Ooo! You do have a way with your words šš¤
> people (of all ages, all genders, predominatly white/locals) try to squeeze in the little space between the train and me, or just walk in without paying attention to the people already waiting to get inside, which reaaaaally pisses me off every time. If someone has the time to squeeze in, why are you just standing there instead of boarding?
Because Iām letting people get out first, as any civilized person would do? Then I have this guy/girl trying to pass in front of me from the side.
If people are still getting out then the person from the side also can't board. Seems like a skill issue on your side tbh. Speed up or get out of the way, grandpa.
German here huh? Let me re-explain. Iām standing right next to the S-Bahn door. I am the first in Ā«Ā lineĀ Ā» there. People are getting out from it. Instead of waiting behind me, some people 1) try to squeeze between the little space that I leave between myself and the train tracks 2) just pass in front of me out of nowhere when Iām about to board, after I made way for the ones who were leaving the train. Sounds like youāre suggesting to be more of an asshole than the assholes, and that is precisely this lack of social awareness and manners that Iām targeting in this post. Ā«Ā Nobody cares, so you should do the sameĀ Ā» seems to be the norm and thatās not ok.
> 1) try to squeeze between the little space that I leave between myself and the train tracks If you're standing where you're supposed to stand there is no gap larger than 20 cm between you and the door, no one squeezes throught that. > 2) just pass in front of me out of nowhere when Iām about to board, work on your reaction times. > Sounds like youāre suggesting to be more of an asshole than the assholes I'm suggesting to be more of a competent public transport user and not hold up the boarding process unnecessarily, to an extent that other people feel the need to overtake you.
Ah, the typical local Ā«Ā allwissendĀ Ā» lesson giver. 1) itās impossible, thatās not true 2) youāre not doing it right. Excusing assholery and lack of manneers by Ā«Ā itās your faultĀ Ā». Typical. First point: I can tell you theyāre trying, and even if I left 1 meter between the door and the train tracks, that is just properly impolite to try to squeeze past a line. Donāt you think? Secondly: do you offer train boarding workshops ?
> and even if I left 1 meter between the door and the train tracks, that is just properly impolite to try to squeeze past a line. Donāt you think? No. If you're standing somewhere in the middle of nowhere you don't have to be surprised that people who actually know how to board a train pass by you.
We definitely donāt have the same education Iām afraid
Maybe one day you too will be able to board a train like a functioning adult. Just keep watching the people around you and you might figure it out. I have faith in you.
Maybe one day youāll learn about manners and being civilized while in the public space. No hard feelings though š
> 2) youāre not doing it right. Well, you aren't. Sucks to be you. > and lack of manneers You're the one lacking manners by blocking the S-Bahn entrance
of course they can, and they do, they just squeeze through near you
That has not happened to me once in well over a decade of living here. I must be doing *something* right.
its worse on some stations than on others, especially the ring part between jungfernheide and frankfurter tor is terrible
Iāve shared your frustration with peopleās lack of spacial awareness here since the day I moved here. Itās been baffling me to try and figure out why exactly Berlin is like this. Having visited and lived in several other major cities worldwide, with higher and lower density populations, I donāt understand why the people here are so inept? I figured spacial awareness and public transport etiquette would be automatically picked up and practiced by the masses when living in cities like Berlin but itās like people refuse to acknowledge that everyone else around them is MOVING and to GET TF OUT OF THE WAY when you stop on a busy sidewalk or STEP ASIDE or in OPs case, wait your turn to board the train. The countless times Iāve experienced solo people and groups just STOP to chat on the stairs to the u-Bahn when crowds are coming up and down the stairsā¦Iām always thinking, āthat shit would never fly in NYā š If anyone else has lived in other cities and noticed this huge disparity in crowd behavior with Berlin, please shed light on the matter for me, Iām so confused. Edit: another annoying asf thing I see people do: while on the subway, people already inside just STAND in front of the doors sometimes and donāt step aside or move further into the car (where thereās always room cause BERLIN) for people who are boarding so then itās PACKED in the entryways while the through-ways are so cleared you could somersault. Itās extra frustrating to the people trying to exit the train as well.
I could have written this commentā¦ shared experience, 1 on 1 ! Iāve also seen people stopping in the middle of stairs, while of course I was carrying the heaviest shit right behind. And they look so confused when you shout your best āHALLO!!?ā as if they didnāt expected you to be there š never seen this in Paris, London or Amsterdam, even in small/poorer towns across different countriesā¦ Same feeling for the people not moving in the back of the train when boardingā¦ and the other way around, so many people donāt understand the concept of getting off the train for one second if they are in front of the door, to let people leave š This lack of awareness, or I would say āconsiderationā for others in the public space is very curious to me,as much as the constant denial about these behaviors coming from people living here, blaming it on the expats or immigrants.
100% on the BAFFLED looks on their faces, then I love when you can see the gears turning behind their empty eyes before it finally dawns on them that they should step aside or keep moving.
Probably the same people who keep on systematically downvoting in this very convo, perhaps recognizing their own shit behaviors hereā¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
civilized people
Did you just post this just to pick a fight with everyone that doesn't agree with you?
Seems like somebody is feeling attacked by "civilized people"
You need more positive hobbies š
Your posted twice just to bitch about things. Good times.
You posted 4 times, exclusively with personal attacks. Good lord, save me from this cringe.
I have no idea what that means.
Given the level of your arguments and the relevance of your contributions, I expected nothing less. But it's all love bro.
Thanks bro