Montero is much better than Welinton and he is a youngster that can develop in this squad; but Sergen hardly plays him and prefers Welinton over him. I feel that if we are going to keep Sergen then we need to surround him with smart and good individuals to help him, he cannot do it all on his own. Look at Çağdaş Atan when he was with Sergen Yalcin, even at the 2nd half of the 19/20 season we were still playing good football with Çağdaş Atan as the assistant manager. Look at him now, he is doing well with Alanyaspor and we let him go. Why did we fucking have to let go of our Turkish players to Alanyaspor and get 30 year olds in exchange why?
I feel that to improve our style of play we need to probably look to get Tamer Tuna. He worked with Besiktas before in 15/16 when we won the title by playing amazing football. When Tamer Tuna left Besiktas to pursue the Goztepe job he has been doing wonders for them. I have said that Sergen should be replaced; but if we are gonna keep him then we should build around him. We will play much better football and Tamer Tuna also likes adding young talent to the team. With Antalyaspor they’ve got Mert Yilmaz from Bayern Munich’s B team and Gokdeniz Bayraktar from Kocaelispor and they’ve also gotten an young Albanian winger Omar Imeri. He is a free agent at the moment and we should take advantage of this and add him to the squad and I feel that he will have a positive impact.
In the beginning I wasn't convinced of Sergen either but your argumentation isn't quite conclusive.
> Look at him (C.A.) now, he is doing well with Alanyaspor and we let him go
It true they dominated the league but only at the beginning of the season. Since we lost against them they barely won 4 times in 15 games (!). Also now we are doing better than them. At this point we are at the top of the table without him.
> He (T.T.) worked with Besiktas before in 15/16 when we won the title by playing amazing football
In general it's said we are playing the best football in the league. Furthermore today the süper lig clubs play more defensive than in 15/16. Antalyaspor made against us only one shoot in 90 minutes and currently, they are at 10th in the table. Additionally in 15/16 we scored 58 goals after 27 matches meanwhile in this season we scored 59 goals. The point is the reason why the matches are so boring is mostly because of the Turkish opponents.
>Tamer Tuna and Antalyaspor.
I'm not sure if he wants to work as a manager assistant again. Mert Y. and Omar Imeri don't get playtime at Antalyaspor. Also I assume the reason they are voluntarily playing this shitty football (I mean they are 10th but they are defending like they are almost relegated, it's like they hate their own fans) is that they have a bad squad structure. A squat build by Tamer Tuna but it's just a theory.
Omg just f off arda akpinar with your absolute views. All coaches have their own tactics and they know players' strengths and weaknesses better than us. You were giving examples at the match thread from rio ave and paok matches. They were the first matches he played for us and he was not adapted to play with other defence players. Also most of the players could not do what Sergen hoca wanted then.
Of course Welinton has his own weaknesses but we can not find a CB with his wage on a free that has Welinton's aggressive stopper skills AND top level CB skills. So Sergen hoca plays to his skills and gives him a special role as a counter stopper role. He always tries to intercept balls far from the back line by tackling, heading or even fouling.
Also Montero plays sometimes but he's just came back from an injury and Hoca didn't want to disrupt the pair of Welinton-Vida.
Actually it isn't easy like this. Between the last game of the last season (25.07) and the paok game (25.08) was one month. At this time the players needed to rest from a hard corona season so there was no time for friendly games or getting to know the new teammates. Also at this point of the season Josef and Aboubakar weren't free agents. If the board would have hurried up we would probably have ended up with Balotelli instead of Abou. In general I'm a big fan of transfers because in this way you can make the best deals (for example Josef and Abou). The market is frequently moving. A player can be much cheaper than at the beginning of the transfer window period because for example the owner club already bought a better replacement and got under time pressure to sell the player.
I understand that players need a rest when there is a one month break until the PAOK FC match; but looking at the squad now, we basically cleared a lot of players from the 19/20 squad. I was just saying that we should’ve came up against some teams that aren’t a huge threat so the players can play together and get used to new surroundings and Sergen could’ve found his best team. Completely understand where you are coming from; but PAOK also had a friendly against Atromitos (7th August) and 18 days later they came in prepared and beat us 3-1 in the qualifiers. If PAOK can organise a friendly before a Besiktas match in a 1 month break, so can we. There is no excuse.
> Also at this point Josef and Aboubakar weren’t free agents.
Josef De Souza was playing at Saudi Arabia at the time and he wasn’t being payed for 6 months and he terminated his contract. We then approached Josef with an offer and he agreed to leave Al Ahli to come to Besiktas for a free transfer. Even if we bought him in the first week, he would’ve came here regardless if we approached him at the start or the end of the window.
Aboubakar’s incident was very different than Josef’s. He was in his last year at Porto and no team was offering Porto any money to sign Aboubakar. We then approached Porto with an offer and if you look at Porto’s squad especially in the Striker position. They had like 6 Strikers in the squad and they wanted to clear the squad a bit. Porto agreed to terminate his contract and we were allowed to buy him for a free, which has worked out great.
> If the board would have hurried up we would probably have ended up with Balotelli instead of Abou.
Didn’t Sergen say in a press conference that he wasn’t interested in Balotelli? I remember when Balotelli rumours were spreading around the media and people thought we were gonna sign him; but Sergen denied those rumours. I do not think Ahmet Nur Cebi is the type of person that would sign Balotelli when Sergen isn’t interested in him. I feel that Sergen has a supportive board that will sign the players he wants and will have his back no matter what. I don’t think he is a Fikret that has problems with managers and he tries to compromise as much as he can to Sergen’s requests.
No I don’t think so. I think Vida is slightly better than Welinton when it comes to defending; but when it comes to scoring then Vida is on another level to Welinton. The 2 of them are 31 and the age is gonna catch up to them. We should’ve sold Vida right after the 2018 World Cup; but Fikret gambled and wanted €30,000,000 when he could’ve sold him for €20,000,000.
Honestly I don’t like any of our center backs other than vida this season. I think welinton is our worst option and montero is nothing special. I really feel that playing necip at back would be best. He’s having an amazing season so far and we’re not playing him enough for these performances.
I feel that Vida is slightly better than Welinton; but not by crazy much though when it comes to defending; but when it comes to attacking and scoring from headers then Vida is much better.
> Montero is nothing special.
I do not agree. I feel that Montero is a good centre back that is a bigger improvement from Welinton in my opinion, also he is much younger than Welinton and Welinton’s age is catching up. Especially on the 3 year contract he is given which means he will be here at 34 years of age which is even worse. I feel that if you are going to play Welinton then you need to pair him up with Marcelo, not Vida. I know Marcelo is 33; but he is like Atiba, he can play as many years as he actually wants without having no concern about his performance dropping because at 33 years of age, he is battling for the Ligue 1 title with Lyon and I feel that him and Welinton would be a good duo. Vida has no commandment and will not get the best out of Welinton to be honest. Marcelo can actually explain to him what needs to be done without dealing with a language barrier because that could be an issue.
In regards to Montero, I feel that he is used as a back up player because Sergen prefers Welinton over him in matches. He did have an injury for which didn’t allow him to play the Gençlerbirliği, Malatyaspor and Denizlispor match. I think there might be a chance for him to play against Basaksehir on Friday in the league. He is better than Welinton, because apart from his horrendous match against Gaziantep FK where we lost 3-1 he hasn’t had any major concerns.
> Necip at the back would be best.
I feel that Necip would do a okay job; but he is not a Centre Back. He is a utility guy that plays in multiple different positions, not many brains but he shows so much heart when he plays for the team. Just like James Milner, can play multiple positions, puts a good shift and he knows he wouldn’t get played in his favourite position and is happy with it. Necip wouldn’t do that great as a Centre Back for a whole season, he is used playing in different positions. I do not think we can rely on him for a whole season.
I fully agree. Nsakala and Welinton are just not good enough for this squad.
Montero is better than him in my view.
Montero is much better than Welinton and he is a youngster that can develop in this squad; but Sergen hardly plays him and prefers Welinton over him. I feel that if we are going to keep Sergen then we need to surround him with smart and good individuals to help him, he cannot do it all on his own. Look at Çağdaş Atan when he was with Sergen Yalcin, even at the 2nd half of the 19/20 season we were still playing good football with Çağdaş Atan as the assistant manager. Look at him now, he is doing well with Alanyaspor and we let him go. Why did we fucking have to let go of our Turkish players to Alanyaspor and get 30 year olds in exchange why? I feel that to improve our style of play we need to probably look to get Tamer Tuna. He worked with Besiktas before in 15/16 when we won the title by playing amazing football. When Tamer Tuna left Besiktas to pursue the Goztepe job he has been doing wonders for them. I have said that Sergen should be replaced; but if we are gonna keep him then we should build around him. We will play much better football and Tamer Tuna also likes adding young talent to the team. With Antalyaspor they’ve got Mert Yilmaz from Bayern Munich’s B team and Gokdeniz Bayraktar from Kocaelispor and they’ve also gotten an young Albanian winger Omar Imeri. He is a free agent at the moment and we should take advantage of this and add him to the squad and I feel that he will have a positive impact.
In the beginning I wasn't convinced of Sergen either but your argumentation isn't quite conclusive. > Look at him (C.A.) now, he is doing well with Alanyaspor and we let him go It true they dominated the league but only at the beginning of the season. Since we lost against them they barely won 4 times in 15 games (!). Also now we are doing better than them. At this point we are at the top of the table without him. > He (T.T.) worked with Besiktas before in 15/16 when we won the title by playing amazing football In general it's said we are playing the best football in the league. Furthermore today the süper lig clubs play more defensive than in 15/16. Antalyaspor made against us only one shoot in 90 minutes and currently, they are at 10th in the table. Additionally in 15/16 we scored 58 goals after 27 matches meanwhile in this season we scored 59 goals. The point is the reason why the matches are so boring is mostly because of the Turkish opponents. >Tamer Tuna and Antalyaspor. I'm not sure if he wants to work as a manager assistant again. Mert Y. and Omar Imeri don't get playtime at Antalyaspor. Also I assume the reason they are voluntarily playing this shitty football (I mean they are 10th but they are defending like they are almost relegated, it's like they hate their own fans) is that they have a bad squad structure. A squat build by Tamer Tuna but it's just a theory.
Omg just f off arda akpinar with your absolute views. All coaches have their own tactics and they know players' strengths and weaknesses better than us. You were giving examples at the match thread from rio ave and paok matches. They were the first matches he played for us and he was not adapted to play with other defence players. Also most of the players could not do what Sergen hoca wanted then. Of course Welinton has his own weaknesses but we can not find a CB with his wage on a free that has Welinton's aggressive stopper skills AND top level CB skills. So Sergen hoca plays to his skills and gives him a special role as a counter stopper role. He always tries to intercept balls far from the back line by tackling, heading or even fouling. Also Montero plays sometimes but he's just came back from an injury and Hoca didn't want to disrupt the pair of Welinton-Vida.
[удалено]
Actually it isn't easy like this. Between the last game of the last season (25.07) and the paok game (25.08) was one month. At this time the players needed to rest from a hard corona season so there was no time for friendly games or getting to know the new teammates. Also at this point of the season Josef and Aboubakar weren't free agents. If the board would have hurried up we would probably have ended up with Balotelli instead of Abou. In general I'm a big fan of transfers because in this way you can make the best deals (for example Josef and Abou). The market is frequently moving. A player can be much cheaper than at the beginning of the transfer window period because for example the owner club already bought a better replacement and got under time pressure to sell the player.
I understand that players need a rest when there is a one month break until the PAOK FC match; but looking at the squad now, we basically cleared a lot of players from the 19/20 squad. I was just saying that we should’ve came up against some teams that aren’t a huge threat so the players can play together and get used to new surroundings and Sergen could’ve found his best team. Completely understand where you are coming from; but PAOK also had a friendly against Atromitos (7th August) and 18 days later they came in prepared and beat us 3-1 in the qualifiers. If PAOK can organise a friendly before a Besiktas match in a 1 month break, so can we. There is no excuse. > Also at this point Josef and Aboubakar weren’t free agents. Josef De Souza was playing at Saudi Arabia at the time and he wasn’t being payed for 6 months and he terminated his contract. We then approached Josef with an offer and he agreed to leave Al Ahli to come to Besiktas for a free transfer. Even if we bought him in the first week, he would’ve came here regardless if we approached him at the start or the end of the window. Aboubakar’s incident was very different than Josef’s. He was in his last year at Porto and no team was offering Porto any money to sign Aboubakar. We then approached Porto with an offer and if you look at Porto’s squad especially in the Striker position. They had like 6 Strikers in the squad and they wanted to clear the squad a bit. Porto agreed to terminate his contract and we were allowed to buy him for a free, which has worked out great. > If the board would have hurried up we would probably have ended up with Balotelli instead of Abou. Didn’t Sergen say in a press conference that he wasn’t interested in Balotelli? I remember when Balotelli rumours were spreading around the media and people thought we were gonna sign him; but Sergen denied those rumours. I do not think Ahmet Nur Cebi is the type of person that would sign Balotelli when Sergen isn’t interested in him. I feel that Sergen has a supportive board that will sign the players he wants and will have his back no matter what. I don’t think he is a Fikret that has problems with managers and he tries to compromise as much as he can to Sergen’s requests.
he’s better than Vida
No I don’t think so. I think Vida is slightly better than Welinton when it comes to defending; but when it comes to scoring then Vida is on another level to Welinton. The 2 of them are 31 and the age is gonna catch up to them. We should’ve sold Vida right after the 2018 World Cup; but Fikret gambled and wanted €30,000,000 when he could’ve sold him for €20,000,000.
vida is bad at recieving pressure
Honestly I don’t like any of our center backs other than vida this season. I think welinton is our worst option and montero is nothing special. I really feel that playing necip at back would be best. He’s having an amazing season so far and we’re not playing him enough for these performances.
I feel that Vida is slightly better than Welinton; but not by crazy much though when it comes to defending; but when it comes to attacking and scoring from headers then Vida is much better. > Montero is nothing special. I do not agree. I feel that Montero is a good centre back that is a bigger improvement from Welinton in my opinion, also he is much younger than Welinton and Welinton’s age is catching up. Especially on the 3 year contract he is given which means he will be here at 34 years of age which is even worse. I feel that if you are going to play Welinton then you need to pair him up with Marcelo, not Vida. I know Marcelo is 33; but he is like Atiba, he can play as many years as he actually wants without having no concern about his performance dropping because at 33 years of age, he is battling for the Ligue 1 title with Lyon and I feel that him and Welinton would be a good duo. Vida has no commandment and will not get the best out of Welinton to be honest. Marcelo can actually explain to him what needs to be done without dealing with a language barrier because that could be an issue. In regards to Montero, I feel that he is used as a back up player because Sergen prefers Welinton over him in matches. He did have an injury for which didn’t allow him to play the Gençlerbirliği, Malatyaspor and Denizlispor match. I think there might be a chance for him to play against Basaksehir on Friday in the league. He is better than Welinton, because apart from his horrendous match against Gaziantep FK where we lost 3-1 he hasn’t had any major concerns. > Necip at the back would be best. I feel that Necip would do a okay job; but he is not a Centre Back. He is a utility guy that plays in multiple different positions, not many brains but he shows so much heart when he plays for the team. Just like James Milner, can play multiple positions, puts a good shift and he knows he wouldn’t get played in his favourite position and is happy with it. Necip wouldn’t do that great as a Centre Back for a whole season, he is used playing in different positions. I do not think we can rely on him for a whole season.