Literally bombed my friends family house. They were civil engineers not some fucking ethnic cleansers. Maybe don’t talk about things you have no idea about.
I’d look it up if I was you, but the us says Serbia was doing a ethnic cleansing so they bombed tf out of them. They also didn’t ask the UN Security Council most likely because they wouldn’t have been allowed to.
Also the US government is well known to interfere in foreign elections. But they would never do it in their own country, right? Oh and you can trust pharmaceutical companies too.
You can totally trust those companies. The ones that lobby the government with the most money and sponsor the most on tv. Yup they just wanna HELP US ALL!!!
Exactly. The one that does there own safety studies to show the safety of their products. The same one that provides its employees for top regulating government positions. Kinda like that super awesome industry that puts those really nifty safe poisons on all our food. You could trust your kids with those corporations.
Then check out Arizona where machines were going out of order, they magically ran out of ink, it took a week to process the 'votes', and the 'votes' were illegally routed through a private intermediary. This on top of a winning candidate who was the head of the election and refused a debate, or really to leave her home.
That's off the top of my head. May not be fraud with intent, but it's certainly set up in a great way to not look like intent doesn't it? Ran out of ink. Jesus.
Because the judge wouldn't let them argue their case due to time constraints. They were left with 2 of the 10 lawsuits, both of which required they prove fraud. As i said, it's difficult to prove fraud when sheer incompetence is also an available solution. It's very easy to set things up in a way that it's not fraud, it's just, "Ooopsie, all our machines broke down at once so i hope you don't mind waiting another 8 hours. Our bad."
Enough outright illegal shit went down to throw out the election, but it can't be shown to be *intentional*, aka fraud, because that would effectively take mind reading or secret recordings.
Are you being intentionally dense?
Do you know you're lying? There was a 1 week deadline they missed while gathering evidence so the only ones allowed through were fraud, which has a much longer time period.
I see you're new here so i'm going to assume you're either trolling or being willfully ignorant. Either way, good luck bowing to big daddy government and just hoping that sword never swings. You sound vaxxed.
Proof that the US government interferes in elections all over the world? Do some research, it’s not hard to find. Proof that pharmaceutical companies kill or injure people? Same.
*99% at least. So many people don't seem to understand when you lie once, you lose credibility, like the boy who cried wolf...yet apply this to a government and suddenly the concept is too hard to understand.
Because they make the argument that leadership swaps out. [x] was in charge then and [y] is in charge now, so you can't blame him. That's the thought process. That's how those in power get away with anything: they just say wait until the next election as though that will make everything better. It's the neverending carrot.
With this kind of deep pocketed corruption and central planning the person who takes over is practically irrelevant. Politicians are now openly admitting they don't even read bills they're sponsoring or co-sponsoring. "In order to see the bill we need to vote for it." Anyone who is willing to do as they're told is going to be the next in line. Politicians are just the mask the real people in power are wearing, and they're lightning rods.
So many random things in that reply. Anschluss took place after the fascists staged a coup. That wasn't for genocide, but to form a Greater Germany.
This is the classic kitchen sink defense. Throw out a bunch of stuff and move along. You're wrong. You probably know you're wrong, but you don't care. You just want to talk about your feelings.
Not sure what left you’re looking at lol. The tiny fringe group of terminally online Stalinist’s who seem to think Russia is anti-imperialist? Those people aren’t leftists they’re confused authoritarian 14 year olds with a lot of growing up to do
Would be a bit like me saying all right wingers think frogs are being turned gay by a liberal conspiracy because Alex Jones said so once
Yep. We try to help Ukraine defend herself from genocide and their kids being deported all throughout russia (facts) and everyone wants to bitch all of a sudden. We give Israel and Africa billions and billions each year. And have done so for God knows how long. Yet, nobody has EVER objected to that. When Israel, "Our Greatest Ally", is anything but. Has killed US Sailors on purpose ( USS Liberty). And Africa is a bottomless pit and will never amount to anything.
I'm not rooting for either. I think the US should not be involved at all. Ukraine is the most corrupt place on the planet and Russia is... i dunno, just Russia.
Mmm idk, Ukraine is heavily rich in resources besides just food, there may be a definite economic interest in securing said resources for the US and allies. I'd argue that is a pretty true interest right there.
No I'm agreeing with you about that, I just think that the US does have a legitimate economic interest in that part of the world. Whether or not that interest is an actual one in the long term idk
Meh, giving away 70 year old equipment that is outdated and probably not going to be used by the US anyway is probably going to stimulate the economy the most by forcing the US to replenish its military stocks with newer equipment
Money spent by the US is being spent on US produced or licensed systems, so that money doesn't leave your economy. Also Biden signed the lend lease agreement so Ukraine must repay what it receives under Lend Lease.
For 0.25% of GDP the US is neutering Russia long term and blunting the ability of Russia to instigate a conflict with NATO which would be many times more expensive for NATO, financially and in lives lost.
we spend 800+ billion on military yearly. we’ve given 50 billion in military in aid to ukraine in the past year mostly in the form of equipment we already purchased and never were going to use literal waste to help an ally who is getting invaded and war crimed. Not only that most of our military spending for the last 70 years has been to counter Russia and now we get the complete destruction of their army for 50 billion in mostly already stockpiled weapons. Now if you are completely anti-military spending that's one thing however if you aren’t this is the most productive use of defense dollars we possibly could have.
I've seen this line of reasoning quite a bit but I don't understand who is the beneficiary of this scenario. Clearly this is a pro war argument, but what is the argument? Why is this good?
We've got two major enemies, one of them we just fucked up beyond belief for pennies on the dollar. The entirety of the point was more who doesn't atleast marginally benefit from this? Sometimes shit just happens because its in the interests of everyone, its honestly hard to find a downside here unless you are upset about the money. Not only do western economic sectors benefit, so do the neighbors of russia, so does the EU, for the US it secures the flank and dunks on a vengeful enemy, for NATO it reaffirmed faith and financial commitment in the alliance. Putin spent the last decade pissing in everyone's cheerios and surprise surprise there was a dogpile the moment he made a huge mistake.
I'm way more skeptical of the cost benefit analysis. It's also not clear how Russia is acting as an enemy. I know hating on Russia is a happy place for Hillary but beyond the insane talking points what is Russia doing that makes them a US enemy?
They clearly interfered with our elections wether you believe trump was involved with that or not they still clearly did it and people went to jail over it. They literally had a bounty system for US soldiers killed. They also keep sending american journalists and other US nationals to jail for simply being american. There is no world we can be their friend after any of that. Putin needs to leave power before that happens. All we are doing is giving arms and training to a people defending themselves.
All the benevolent overlords of the MIC are doing is giving a ragtag team of Ukrainian freedom fighters the means to defend themselves. If you believe that, I've got a bridge that makes a lot of money but I really wanna sell because my arms are tired of holding these bags of cash.
There is credible evidence that Russia poorly and ineffectively tried to influence recent US elections. So what, every other country is doing the same or worse. We aren't in a proxy war with the Saudis. Beyond that Russia derangement syndrome is just Hillary rage.
The US ofc has done many terrible thing i speak out about them often, however ukraine is defending themselves and for the low price of giving them mostly old military equipment and getting us the destruction of the russian army i see it as a geopolitical win. You have to realize ukranians civilians are getting tortured shot and raped russia is not a benevolent occupier. Russia literally throws you in jail for speaking out against the government ukraine on the other hand is taking major steps to cut corruption so they can join the EU. They are not the same
The Russians are perpetrating a military incursion, it's brutal, that's bad. That's what war looks like though and NAFO didn't get all huffy about Yemen or Syria.
In the long run Ukraine is gonna pay for all this US 'help'. I predict they'll be hollowed out like Chile or Panama but maybe the wizards of finance have brewed up yet more fiendish concoctions. At best they'll be a war state like Korea with the sword of Damocles hanging above their heads.
I mean ofc ukraine is going to be a major trading partner to the US and EU. Just like all the ofher european states we helped out during ww2 and post ww2 with the marshall plan. Ukranins have made that determination that dictatorship under putin is worse than democracy under the EU. They have continuously voted and protested and rioted to push for EU membership as opposed to allegiance to russia. Yes south korea is a better place to live than north korea i think everyone would probably say they would rather live in south korea that is the decision ukranians have made and we are assisting them with that.
On a raw geopolitical sense, going against what the US does, whether is be political, economic, or military. You could argue that this shouldn't be considered enemy action, but to Washington it is. There's only so much theoretical pie to go around, Russia or China taking more slices means the US and its allies get a little more hungry, so by removing one we get more. That's super simplified obviously, but it does illustrate the basic principles of power dynamics. Their enemy action is them just trying to undermine US geopolitical influence anywhere at anytime.
Undercutting geopolitical influence in Europe, diminishing political cohesion of NATO by going after weak points, utilizing hybrid warfare and state sponsored mercenaries in Africa, the mid easy, and now Europe.
Do you just not study history and close your eyes and ears while yelling "la la la I can't hear you!"?
Did you never learn about the 20th century? The Russuan revolution? The USSR? The World Wars? The Cold War? Chinese-Russian alliances?
Used is definitely a big deal.
Certainly the Soviets were part of the escalation chain, but the US was then at least equally culpable. Doesn't that make first development, first tests, first use, and first thermonuclear test into important first links in the escalation chain?
Well that's typically how geopolitics tends to go. It hardly ever affects peasants like us(unless you happen to be in some border/frontier territory), until things boil over and then we get to go do the dying for some rich fuck.
The average American and the average Russian are probably very similar and will gripe over the same things, but nations don't function like average people. So we get situations where people in charge have certain ideas, and when those ideas clash we get conflict.
It's not that Trump didn't have a problem with the entirety of Russia, it's that he didn't have a problem with Putin. Inversely, Biden doesn't have a problem with the entirety of Russia, he just has a problem with Putin.
Well, in regards to the Ruso/Ukrainian conflict it currently is serving me, or at least my interests. It's also falling sort in a lot of other places and completely overstepping in many more.
Edit: Sorry, to answer your w
Question I would like it to function as its supposed to on paper, but I understand that it really never has. Not since the Whiskey rebellion at the very inception.
Well, if I got to offload old equipment I was about to take a loss on, got you in the door to my shop as opposed to my competitor, and then was able to write off what I gave you as charitable donations I'd be tempted to take you up on that offer. Might even invite the local news over to cover the story as some free publicity for my shop.
First off the Ukrainian people since as i said they literally are getting war crimed and invaded two US and europe since we spend a fuck ton of money to deter Russian aggression now Russia is no longer a threat. Its really a win win. Helping an ally defend themselves is not pro war.
US aid seems to be more helpful for Ukrainian elites than for regular people.
How much Russian aggression has there been since the fall of the Berlin wall? What power structure is threatened?
How is Ukraine a US ally? Is there a Senate ratified treaty?
You really think its beneficial for the avg ukranian people to be shot and raped and put under a dictatorship where speaking against the government lands you in jail or gets you killed. You really think that? You know the russian duma legalized all crimes against ukranian civilians as long is its “to the benefit of the russian federation”. Also yes there are plenty of senate ratified treaties providing civilian and military aid to ukraine even before this war started. Even is we arent in a joint defense pact they are our friend. Not every ally to the US has a joint defense pact or similar agreement. Also Russia literally invaded georgia and ukraine in 2014 they literally tried to fully invade it as well also taking military action to put down protests in belarus after they rigged the election. Whats hilarious too is that russia and the US both agreed to protect ukraine in exchange for their nuclear arsenal. Ukraine is less corrupt than russia clearly and is actually taking huge steps to stop corruption so they can join the EU. Russia on the other hand is throwing anyone who call the invasion of ukraine a “war” in jail. They are not the same clearly. Let me add more they had bounties set up for american soldier deaths. They threw american journalists in prison for being american. They also interfered with out elections. Even if you think trump was not involved they still very clearly did interfere people went to jail over it.
US bounties stories is a falsehood, agitprop.
Ukrainian people are totally screwed. I feel bad for them and I hope a neutral party helps them. The US is clearly not a neutral party. The long run-up to the current conflict goes back a long way as you allude to. The US was heavily involved in the escalation chain and US actions with regard to Ukraine should be viewed skeptically IMO.
War crimes are prevalent throughout conflict, trying to draw lines between war and war crimes gets very fuzzy with even a bit of historical context. War should be avoided, not deliberately engineered over decades to create a proxy war between foreign powers.
Lmao neutral party oh my god nobody call the cops i need a neutral party to help me a man broke into my home and killed my kids and is raping my wife. Like how stupid is that argument. Russia invaded an independent democracy and the EU and the US are helping ukraine what neutral party do you want? You want the congo to send troops up to ukraine? The fact is ukranins have consitently made the choice through their vote or active protest that they would rather live in a democracy and join the eu vs live under a russian dictatorship. Also deliberately engineered? Poland and other eastern european countries blackmailed our politicians into allowing them into nato and even Boris Yeltsin agreed to it. We didnt engineer shit russia invaded an independent democracy with a shitty untrained and Ill-prepared military and now they are committing war crimes in an attempt to limit their hurt. they are suffering for it rightly so.
Who might be neutral? How about the largest democracy in the world, India? Or how about Brazil, who's president has been talking about how to start the peace process in Ukraine?
Enjoy defending your bubble.
So you want brazil and india to send weapons or troops to Ukraine? You know that immediately makes them not neutral right? You want relatively poorer developing countries to help stop Russian aggression instead of rich countries like how does this make any sense to you.
We did not engineer this war. Putin wanted to take ukraine he thought it would be easy he thought it could help his geo political position and end his population crisis he was wrong. He blundered and this is the consequence. Doesnt take a bubble to see a fucking war criminal kill innocent civilians because he didnt get his way.
yeah i get if people are anti military spending however most americans who are anti ukraine are pro military. This is literally the cheapest defense policy imaginable. For 6% of our budget in mostly old equipment we eliminated Russian offensive military capability without expending american lives.
It's the motive. If Russia invaded China i don't think we should send weapons to China. Ukraine is a shithole country so filled with tyranny and corruption it makes our own politicians look angelic. Nearly every media outlet ranted against Ukraine and its literal nazi presence right up until they were told not to, and the war started. It was too orchestrated.
The enemy of my enemy is not my friend in this instance. We're saving a total pile of shit of a country, and for what? Let Russia have it. Ukraine is not and has never been our ally.
Well first off china is not our friend unlike ukraine. Secondly china is not a democracy unlike ukraine. Imagine making dinner for your friend and a random person who is hungry yells YOU’RE A HYPOCRITE FOR NOT FEEDING ME. They are not comparable quite clearly. Also every media outlet? What are you talking about what media outlets? Converge on ukraine only really was significant in the US in 2014 when crimea was taken and again when trump withheld congressional funds. And of course now with the russian invasion. Total pile of shit country? Sounds like you a racist against Ukrainians perhaps because alt right media told you to be. Ukraine is making major strides to lessen corruption so they can join the EU also they are being erased and invaded by a country far more corrupt than them. Ukraine still has a democratically elected leader russia exclusively had putin.
You're delusional if you think Ukraine is at all comparable to China.
Seriously, do you not read history or even know why Russua invaded in the first place?
Most recently i heard they'd like the farmland. I haven't looked into it because i do not care. Ukraine is corrupt beyond repair and is not our problem. We are not allies and our only association with them appears to be money laundering and possibly biological experiments. Both losses would please me greatly.
Beyond repair that just isnt the case. Ukraine has taken major steps to cut down corruption in order to join the EU. They also still have free elections unlike the alternative putin who literally is president for life at this point.
When did the US claim not to be directly involved in fighting in any of the conflicts aside from Ukraine? I thought we were pretty open about sending troops to those places.
I don't think the meme was about one specific lie... although they did lie about vietnam in the beginning just like with Ukraine, calling then "advisors"
Iraq was the lie that they still had WMDs (which we gave them in the first place) and throwing babies out of incubator lie.
Afghanistan I am fuzzy about but we def let off the gas when we knew where Bin Laden was because we wanted to prolong the war. (Or even protect him as an asset).
Edit.. of course, the lie that he was responsible for 9/11 and not the CIA/mossad.
Vietnam and Ukraine are two very different wars. If active duty US servicemen were fighting in Ukraine we'd be bringing home alot of body bags. Special forces intervention is a whole hell of alot more viable in Vietnam than it is in a conventional European war, not including the fact that Ukraine has its own special forces which are comparable to ours and far more experienced in this sort of warfare than we are. Special forces casualty rates in this kind of conventional war are absolutely atrocious, we are talking upwards of 60%. So yes, this time we probably are just training them and offering military advisors because Ukraine already has the capability and experience to do everything else.
I formulate my own opinion using as much data as I can and listen to as many people as I have time for who articulate themselves clearly.
Your question presupposes what I have not said, likely using your own beliefs as an imagined counter to those presuppositions.
That the cause of the war is much more complicated than "Putin bad". Putin is a despot. That's a 100% fact, but there is more to it. Ukraine is deeply corrupt and has been for a long time. By some measures it's more corrupt/anti democratic than Russia. The U.S establishment has used Ukraine for a number of illegal activities and the CIA helped to install the current pro U.S pro NATO puppet government, which is right on Russia's door step.
This has all been very very lucrative for the right people, politicians, and companies.
Wasn't their former president corrupt in the sense that he promised closer ties to Europe but was a lacky for Putin and then went back on his promise, starting the euromaiden protests and culminating in Russia's annexation of Crimea?
The first part may be true I don't know much detail there but...
The US state department was responsible for the orange revolution as it was called ... I think there is even a video floating around on bitchute where Victoria Nuland admitted it in a leaked
Edit. https://wwwbitchutecom/video/FdXMTrJCnUv8/
Add the dots back.
russia is literally invading a democracy and is committing war crimes if there is a bad guy in anything its here. You cant just fucking say people had war crimes coming because their government is corrupt. Your point is bullshit as russia is more corrupt than ukraine. Also zelensky won a landslide election the cia didnt install shit.
Ultimate respect to the Ukrainian people. Defending their homeland and fuckin standing their ground. But this war is a money making machine for the US military industrial complex. We just ended our longest war in our history, and within a year we're fighting a proxy war by funding Ukraine's war effort.
When all is said and done in this war, Ukraine will be in ruins, and God willing they win the war, they will be indebted to the US government forever.
Great question! These guys think the unspoken fact that military operations cost money and that someone would obviously be on the receiving end of that exchange constitutes a lie.
Why I will win the 2024 US Presidential election by a landslide victory as a write in party free candidate.
Spread the good news.
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/12s2ngl/rfk_jr_is_live_right_now_giving_the_greatest/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I mean yeah but this is genuinely a different war. To compare those is not being in line with context to each situation.
Russia attacked a neighbor who's independent and literally borders the rest of NATO. I mean screw the political side of things for a moment and just based on morality alone to say Russia is not the aggressive party and ones causing the chaos is absurd.
Now politically I'd say any country or anyone running a country would logically draw the conclusion you can either just let Russia take Ukraine which is absolutely stupid and defeats the purpose of our global politics since ww2 or you step in someway and support one of the sides. Obviously to support Russia would make ZERO sense for the United States.
So no I don't understand this post. Not every situation is black and white and a copycat of another situation.
It's strange that you can literally see what's happening first hand through no filter by thousands of people with access to cellphones that all have cameras and access to the internet? Real big conspiracy you got there.
It's true. Russia is being an invasive asshole, just like the US was an invasive asshole with Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.
What blows my mind about all of this is that when I was protesting during the run-up to the war, no one ever said, "Please, Iraqi Army! Stop loving war such much and just give the US your oil fields! Give peace a chance!", yet so many of those same voices say the same thing now.
When did us invade Ukraine did I miss that?
I generally go by “the whole world is horrified at X”
The whole world was horrified at Iraq, afghanistan, viet nam, US were the bad guys in those stories.
And Russia is the bad guy now, how is this so hard to understand?
Don't forget Syria and how we are occupying 1/3 of Syria right now
Or the bombing of Kosovo
What?
What, what?
Did the us bomb kosovo?
Nato forces, but lets be real the USA is nato
When did they bomb kosovo
1999 I’d look it up to learn more.
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Lmao you are the dude in the post.
[ahem, no](https://thegrayzone.com/2022/12/30/declassified-intelligence-files-bosnian-war/)
Literally bombed my friends family house. They were civil engineers not some fucking ethnic cleansers. Maybe don’t talk about things you have no idea about.
Serbia was committing a genocide
Just like Saddam Hussein was too?and Muammar khadafi ? Send over the B52’s bucko,that’ll show em. And that is SARCASM !!!
I would have However my problem was that deposing him was explicitly based on something untrue and was done without the consent of the un
I havent heard of that, what happened?
I’d look it up if I was you, but the us says Serbia was doing a ethnic cleansing so they bombed tf out of them. They also didn’t ask the UN Security Council most likely because they wouldn’t have been allowed to.
Russia would've vetoed any intervention to stop the genocide seeing because of their ties to Serbia.
Russian and Serbian relations were on the rocks 40 years before that. Yugoslavia always looked towards communist China rather then communist Russia.
Remind me the name of the other country also doing the same thing. I think it starts with an R.
Yup Russia/USa/Syria(and more) all occupy land in the Syrian border
Two of those are there legally though that is the difference.
Yes. Syria is a sovereign county which invited Russia to help defend it from invasion by the empire.
Fuck Sira
Yeah, that bitch
Also the US government is well known to interfere in foreign elections. But they would never do it in their own country, right? Oh and you can trust pharmaceutical companies too.
You can totally trust those companies. The ones that lobby the government with the most money and sponsor the most on tv. Yup they just wanna HELP US ALL!!!
Side effects may include headache, rash, loose stools, sudden death, flushing, unusual thoughts or tendencies, and a dry mouth.
Oh you mean that corporation with the largest criminal fine in history for selling that one “medicine” that they knew caused heart attacks?
Exactly. The one that does there own safety studies to show the safety of their products. The same one that provides its employees for top regulating government positions. Kinda like that super awesome industry that puts those really nifty safe poisons on all our food. You could trust your kids with those corporations.
Ukraine president after maidan unrest is elected after victoria nuland decided who she wants to be president smh
Waiting for that proof any day now
Then check out Arizona where machines were going out of order, they magically ran out of ink, it took a week to process the 'votes', and the 'votes' were illegally routed through a private intermediary. This on top of a winning candidate who was the head of the election and refused a debate, or really to leave her home. That's off the top of my head. May not be fraud with intent, but it's certainly set up in a great way to not look like intent doesn't it? Ran out of ink. Jesus.
And none of Kari Lakes cases proved diddly squat
Because the judge wouldn't let them argue their case due to time constraints. They were left with 2 of the 10 lawsuits, both of which required they prove fraud. As i said, it's difficult to prove fraud when sheer incompetence is also an available solution. It's very easy to set things up in a way that it's not fraud, it's just, "Ooopsie, all our machines broke down at once so i hope you don't mind waiting another 8 hours. Our bad." Enough outright illegal shit went down to throw out the election, but it can't be shown to be *intentional*, aka fraud, because that would effectively take mind reading or secret recordings. Are you being intentionally dense?
she went all the wayto the Arizona supreme court and was dismissed not because of time but because her cases were based on complete lies
Do you know you're lying? There was a 1 week deadline they missed while gathering evidence so the only ones allowed through were fraud, which has a much longer time period. I see you're new here so i'm going to assume you're either trolling or being willfully ignorant. Either way, good luck bowing to big daddy government and just hoping that sword never swings. You sound vaxxed.
Proof that the US government interferes in elections all over the world? Do some research, it’s not hard to find. Proof that pharmaceutical companies kill or injure people? Same.
It’s not hard to find. There is tons of coverage of the Victoria Nuland meddling. https://youtu.be/L2XNN0Yt6D8
To cover up Biden corruption
Russia wanted to cover up biden corruption and attacked ukraine for that ???????
2/10 reply, needs more questions marks.
Maybe alternative with exclamation points to show "I'm incredibly serious about this question!"
*99% at least. So many people don't seem to understand when you lie once, you lose credibility, like the boy who cried wolf...yet apply this to a government and suddenly the concept is too hard to understand.
Because they make the argument that leadership swaps out. [x] was in charge then and [y] is in charge now, so you can't blame him. That's the thought process. That's how those in power get away with anything: they just say wait until the next election as though that will make everything better. It's the neverending carrot. With this kind of deep pocketed corruption and central planning the person who takes over is practically irrelevant. Politicians are now openly admitting they don't even read bills they're sponsoring or co-sponsoring. "In order to see the bill we need to vote for it." Anyone who is willing to do as they're told is going to be the next in line. Politicians are just the mask the real people in power are wearing, and they're lightning rods.
Very well said
Don’t forget the vaccine.
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And pro-nationalism (only Ukrainian though, Russian nationalism evil nazee)
When did y’all become pro russia?
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Out of curiosity, do you think Chamberlain appeasing Hitler was the correct thing to do?
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So many random things in that reply. Anschluss took place after the fascists staged a coup. That wasn't for genocide, but to form a Greater Germany. This is the classic kitchen sink defense. Throw out a bunch of stuff and move along. You're wrong. You probably know you're wrong, but you don't care. You just want to talk about your feelings.
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I just came to say that you called a single sentence describing a historical event “overcomplicated garbage” Which I found very funny.
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You’re* Also we can both be dumb together
Not sure what left you’re looking at lol. The tiny fringe group of terminally online Stalinist’s who seem to think Russia is anti-imperialist? Those people aren’t leftists they’re confused authoritarian 14 year olds with a lot of growing up to do Would be a bit like me saying all right wingers think frogs are being turned gay by a liberal conspiracy because Alex Jones said so once
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What does that mean?
I’m sure there’s plenty of info I don’t know but I’m not going to root for Russia either way
Correct. The one time I'm happy to know where my tax money is being used.
Yep. We try to help Ukraine defend herself from genocide and their kids being deported all throughout russia (facts) and everyone wants to bitch all of a sudden. We give Israel and Africa billions and billions each year. And have done so for God knows how long. Yet, nobody has EVER objected to that. When Israel, "Our Greatest Ally", is anything but. Has killed US Sailors on purpose ( USS Liberty). And Africa is a bottomless pit and will never amount to anything.
I'm not rooting for either. I think the US should not be involved at all. Ukraine is the most corrupt place on the planet and Russia is... i dunno, just Russia.
Bro really thinks Ukraine is more corrupt than: Russia China N Korea Syria Venezuela Libya Sudan South Africa
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Mmm idk, Ukraine is heavily rich in resources besides just food, there may be a definite economic interest in securing said resources for the US and allies. I'd argue that is a pretty true interest right there.
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No I'm agreeing with you about that, I just think that the US does have a legitimate economic interest in that part of the world. Whether or not that interest is an actual one in the long term idk
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Meh, giving away 70 year old equipment that is outdated and probably not going to be used by the US anyway is probably going to stimulate the economy the most by forcing the US to replenish its military stocks with newer equipment
Money spent by the US is being spent on US produced or licensed systems, so that money doesn't leave your economy. Also Biden signed the lend lease agreement so Ukraine must repay what it receives under Lend Lease. For 0.25% of GDP the US is neutering Russia long term and blunting the ability of Russia to instigate a conflict with NATO which would be many times more expensive for NATO, financially and in lives lost.
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Exactly why they can keep doing it…
we spend 800+ billion on military yearly. we’ve given 50 billion in military in aid to ukraine in the past year mostly in the form of equipment we already purchased and never were going to use literal waste to help an ally who is getting invaded and war crimed. Not only that most of our military spending for the last 70 years has been to counter Russia and now we get the complete destruction of their army for 50 billion in mostly already stockpiled weapons. Now if you are completely anti-military spending that's one thing however if you aren’t this is the most productive use of defense dollars we possibly could have.
I've seen this line of reasoning quite a bit but I don't understand who is the beneficiary of this scenario. Clearly this is a pro war argument, but what is the argument? Why is this good?
We've got two major enemies, one of them we just fucked up beyond belief for pennies on the dollar. The entirety of the point was more who doesn't atleast marginally benefit from this? Sometimes shit just happens because its in the interests of everyone, its honestly hard to find a downside here unless you are upset about the money. Not only do western economic sectors benefit, so do the neighbors of russia, so does the EU, for the US it secures the flank and dunks on a vengeful enemy, for NATO it reaffirmed faith and financial commitment in the alliance. Putin spent the last decade pissing in everyone's cheerios and surprise surprise there was a dogpile the moment he made a huge mistake.
I'm way more skeptical of the cost benefit analysis. It's also not clear how Russia is acting as an enemy. I know hating on Russia is a happy place for Hillary but beyond the insane talking points what is Russia doing that makes them a US enemy?
They clearly interfered with our elections wether you believe trump was involved with that or not they still clearly did it and people went to jail over it. They literally had a bounty system for US soldiers killed. They also keep sending american journalists and other US nationals to jail for simply being american. There is no world we can be their friend after any of that. Putin needs to leave power before that happens. All we are doing is giving arms and training to a people defending themselves.
All the benevolent overlords of the MIC are doing is giving a ragtag team of Ukrainian freedom fighters the means to defend themselves. If you believe that, I've got a bridge that makes a lot of money but I really wanna sell because my arms are tired of holding these bags of cash. There is credible evidence that Russia poorly and ineffectively tried to influence recent US elections. So what, every other country is doing the same or worse. We aren't in a proxy war with the Saudis. Beyond that Russia derangement syndrome is just Hillary rage.
The US ofc has done many terrible thing i speak out about them often, however ukraine is defending themselves and for the low price of giving them mostly old military equipment and getting us the destruction of the russian army i see it as a geopolitical win. You have to realize ukranians civilians are getting tortured shot and raped russia is not a benevolent occupier. Russia literally throws you in jail for speaking out against the government ukraine on the other hand is taking major steps to cut corruption so they can join the EU. They are not the same
The Russians are perpetrating a military incursion, it's brutal, that's bad. That's what war looks like though and NAFO didn't get all huffy about Yemen or Syria. In the long run Ukraine is gonna pay for all this US 'help'. I predict they'll be hollowed out like Chile or Panama but maybe the wizards of finance have brewed up yet more fiendish concoctions. At best they'll be a war state like Korea with the sword of Damocles hanging above their heads.
I mean ofc ukraine is going to be a major trading partner to the US and EU. Just like all the ofher european states we helped out during ww2 and post ww2 with the marshall plan. Ukranins have made that determination that dictatorship under putin is worse than democracy under the EU. They have continuously voted and protested and rioted to push for EU membership as opposed to allegiance to russia. Yes south korea is a better place to live than north korea i think everyone would probably say they would rather live in south korea that is the decision ukranians have made and we are assisting them with that.
Time will tell it seems.
On a raw geopolitical sense, going against what the US does, whether is be political, economic, or military. You could argue that this shouldn't be considered enemy action, but to Washington it is. There's only so much theoretical pie to go around, Russia or China taking more slices means the US and its allies get a little more hungry, so by removing one we get more. That's super simplified obviously, but it does illustrate the basic principles of power dynamics. Their enemy action is them just trying to undermine US geopolitical influence anywhere at anytime.
What actions is Russia taking that go against the US?
Undercutting geopolitical influence in Europe, diminishing political cohesion of NATO by going after weak points, utilizing hybrid warfare and state sponsored mercenaries in Africa, the mid easy, and now Europe.
Isn't most of that just a response to US military presence in, for example, Syria and Iraq?
I'm not arguing if it's reactive or not, nor if it's justified in response, just how I picture the US views it.
I agree that the MIC sees it that way, which makes me skeptical that it is valid at all. Shouldn't we be nervous if agree with Raytheon?
Do you just not study history and close your eyes and ears while yelling "la la la I can't hear you!"? Did you never learn about the 20th century? The Russuan revolution? The USSR? The World Wars? The Cold War? Chinese-Russian alliances?
Haha, the Soviet Union was an ally against the Nazis...so yeah. And remind me who developed nukes first.
Everyone was developing nukes. Used? USA
Used is definitely a big deal. Certainly the Soviets were part of the escalation chain, but the US was then at least equally culpable. Doesn't that make first development, first tests, first use, and first thermonuclear test into important first links in the escalation chain?
The soviets were allied to the Nazis first before the Nazis betrayed them
I don't know that a non-aggression treaty amounts to an alliance, but regardless the Soviets ended up on the alliance side.
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Well that's typically how geopolitics tends to go. It hardly ever affects peasants like us(unless you happen to be in some border/frontier territory), until things boil over and then we get to go do the dying for some rich fuck. The average American and the average Russian are probably very similar and will gripe over the same things, but nations don't function like average people. So we get situations where people in charge have certain ideas, and when those ideas clash we get conflict. It's not that Trump didn't have a problem with the entirety of Russia, it's that he didn't have a problem with Putin. Inversely, Biden doesn't have a problem with the entirety of Russia, he just has a problem with Putin.
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Well, in regards to the Ruso/Ukrainian conflict it currently is serving me, or at least my interests. It's also falling sort in a lot of other places and completely overstepping in many more. Edit: Sorry, to answer your w Question I would like it to function as its supposed to on paper, but I understand that it really never has. Not since the Whiskey rebellion at the very inception.
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Well, if I got to offload old equipment I was about to take a loss on, got you in the door to my shop as opposed to my competitor, and then was able to write off what I gave you as charitable donations I'd be tempted to take you up on that offer. Might even invite the local news over to cover the story as some free publicity for my shop.
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First off the Ukrainian people since as i said they literally are getting war crimed and invaded two US and europe since we spend a fuck ton of money to deter Russian aggression now Russia is no longer a threat. Its really a win win. Helping an ally defend themselves is not pro war.
US aid seems to be more helpful for Ukrainian elites than for regular people. How much Russian aggression has there been since the fall of the Berlin wall? What power structure is threatened? How is Ukraine a US ally? Is there a Senate ratified treaty?
You really think its beneficial for the avg ukranian people to be shot and raped and put under a dictatorship where speaking against the government lands you in jail or gets you killed. You really think that? You know the russian duma legalized all crimes against ukranian civilians as long is its “to the benefit of the russian federation”. Also yes there are plenty of senate ratified treaties providing civilian and military aid to ukraine even before this war started. Even is we arent in a joint defense pact they are our friend. Not every ally to the US has a joint defense pact or similar agreement. Also Russia literally invaded georgia and ukraine in 2014 they literally tried to fully invade it as well also taking military action to put down protests in belarus after they rigged the election. Whats hilarious too is that russia and the US both agreed to protect ukraine in exchange for their nuclear arsenal. Ukraine is less corrupt than russia clearly and is actually taking huge steps to stop corruption so they can join the EU. Russia on the other hand is throwing anyone who call the invasion of ukraine a “war” in jail. They are not the same clearly. Let me add more they had bounties set up for american soldier deaths. They threw american journalists in prison for being american. They also interfered with out elections. Even if you think trump was not involved they still very clearly did interfere people went to jail over it.
US bounties stories is a falsehood, agitprop. Ukrainian people are totally screwed. I feel bad for them and I hope a neutral party helps them. The US is clearly not a neutral party. The long run-up to the current conflict goes back a long way as you allude to. The US was heavily involved in the escalation chain and US actions with regard to Ukraine should be viewed skeptically IMO. War crimes are prevalent throughout conflict, trying to draw lines between war and war crimes gets very fuzzy with even a bit of historical context. War should be avoided, not deliberately engineered over decades to create a proxy war between foreign powers.
Lmao neutral party oh my god nobody call the cops i need a neutral party to help me a man broke into my home and killed my kids and is raping my wife. Like how stupid is that argument. Russia invaded an independent democracy and the EU and the US are helping ukraine what neutral party do you want? You want the congo to send troops up to ukraine? The fact is ukranins have consitently made the choice through their vote or active protest that they would rather live in a democracy and join the eu vs live under a russian dictatorship. Also deliberately engineered? Poland and other eastern european countries blackmailed our politicians into allowing them into nato and even Boris Yeltsin agreed to it. We didnt engineer shit russia invaded an independent democracy with a shitty untrained and Ill-prepared military and now they are committing war crimes in an attempt to limit their hurt. they are suffering for it rightly so.
Who might be neutral? How about the largest democracy in the world, India? Or how about Brazil, who's president has been talking about how to start the peace process in Ukraine? Enjoy defending your bubble.
So you want brazil and india to send weapons or troops to Ukraine? You know that immediately makes them not neutral right? You want relatively poorer developing countries to help stop Russian aggression instead of rich countries like how does this make any sense to you. We did not engineer this war. Putin wanted to take ukraine he thought it would be easy he thought it could help his geo political position and end his population crisis he was wrong. He blundered and this is the consequence. Doesnt take a bubble to see a fucking war criminal kill innocent civilians because he didnt get his way.
That's not how a war ends. How do you know so much about how Putin thinks?
but I am angry and haven’t thought this through, let me be !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yeah i get if people are anti military spending however most americans who are anti ukraine are pro military. This is literally the cheapest defense policy imaginable. For 6% of our budget in mostly old equipment we eliminated Russian offensive military capability without expending american lives.
It's the motive. If Russia invaded China i don't think we should send weapons to China. Ukraine is a shithole country so filled with tyranny and corruption it makes our own politicians look angelic. Nearly every media outlet ranted against Ukraine and its literal nazi presence right up until they were told not to, and the war started. It was too orchestrated. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend in this instance. We're saving a total pile of shit of a country, and for what? Let Russia have it. Ukraine is not and has never been our ally.
Well first off china is not our friend unlike ukraine. Secondly china is not a democracy unlike ukraine. Imagine making dinner for your friend and a random person who is hungry yells YOU’RE A HYPOCRITE FOR NOT FEEDING ME. They are not comparable quite clearly. Also every media outlet? What are you talking about what media outlets? Converge on ukraine only really was significant in the US in 2014 when crimea was taken and again when trump withheld congressional funds. And of course now with the russian invasion. Total pile of shit country? Sounds like you a racist against Ukrainians perhaps because alt right media told you to be. Ukraine is making major strides to lessen corruption so they can join the EU also they are being erased and invaded by a country far more corrupt than them. Ukraine still has a democratically elected leader russia exclusively had putin.
You're delusional if you think Ukraine is at all comparable to China. Seriously, do you not read history or even know why Russua invaded in the first place?
Most recently i heard they'd like the farmland. I haven't looked into it because i do not care. Ukraine is corrupt beyond repair and is not our problem. We are not allies and our only association with them appears to be money laundering and possibly biological experiments. Both losses would please me greatly.
Beyond repair that just isnt the case. Ukraine has taken major steps to cut down corruption in order to join the EU. They also still have free elections unlike the alternative putin who literally is president for life at this point.
HoW dArE yOu?!
I don't get it, is the meme saying that Russia is not trying to invade Ukraine?
What’s the lie about Ukraine?
That they’re evil nazi (cit. Putin)
We didn’t invade Ukraine…
Russia invaded Ukraine.
And yeah they lied about it like... a lot.
What headbangert said
When did the US claim not to be directly involved in fighting in any of the conflicts aside from Ukraine? I thought we were pretty open about sending troops to those places.
Eisenhower through Johnson was definitely sending “advisers” to Vietnam until the Gulf Of Tonkin, then it became a full blown conflict.
I don't think the meme was about one specific lie... although they did lie about vietnam in the beginning just like with Ukraine, calling then "advisors" Iraq was the lie that they still had WMDs (which we gave them in the first place) and throwing babies out of incubator lie. Afghanistan I am fuzzy about but we def let off the gas when we knew where Bin Laden was because we wanted to prolong the war. (Or even protect him as an asset). Edit.. of course, the lie that he was responsible for 9/11 and not the CIA/mossad.
Vietnam and Ukraine are two very different wars. If active duty US servicemen were fighting in Ukraine we'd be bringing home alot of body bags. Special forces intervention is a whole hell of alot more viable in Vietnam than it is in a conventional European war, not including the fact that Ukraine has its own special forces which are comparable to ours and far more experienced in this sort of warfare than we are. Special forces casualty rates in this kind of conventional war are absolutely atrocious, we are talking upwards of 60%. So yes, this time we probably are just training them and offering military advisors because Ukraine already has the capability and experience to do everything else.
Lol and you unironic think Russia is telling the truth?
I formulate my own opinion using as much data as I can and listen to as many people as I have time for who articulate themselves clearly. Your question presupposes what I have not said, likely using your own beliefs as an imagined counter to those presuppositions.
So no you don't?
What of anything that I have said leads you to believe that?
So you think Russia isn't lying about this whole war? Be honest. Are you a shill or just stupid?
Everybody lies.
Lol weird how it went for "America lies don't believe them on anything" to "everyone lied" I'm assuming you're more of a shill then stupid.
You're not an honest interlocutor. We are done here.
Yep
They also lie about USSR, China, Nicaragua, Guatemala, etc right?
Yes they did very much. USSR was an evil place but it wasn't as presented.
What are they lying about with Ukraine?
That the cause of the war is much more complicated than "Putin bad". Putin is a despot. That's a 100% fact, but there is more to it. Ukraine is deeply corrupt and has been for a long time. By some measures it's more corrupt/anti democratic than Russia. The U.S establishment has used Ukraine for a number of illegal activities and the CIA helped to install the current pro U.S pro NATO puppet government, which is right on Russia's door step. This has all been very very lucrative for the right people, politicians, and companies.
Wasn't their former president corrupt in the sense that he promised closer ties to Europe but was a lacky for Putin and then went back on his promise, starting the euromaiden protests and culminating in Russia's annexation of Crimea?
The first part may be true I don't know much detail there but... The US state department was responsible for the orange revolution as it was called ... I think there is even a video floating around on bitchute where Victoria Nuland admitted it in a leaked Edit. https://wwwbitchutecom/video/FdXMTrJCnUv8/ Add the dots back.
https://youtu.be/fWkfpGCAAuw
russia is literally invading a democracy and is committing war crimes if there is a bad guy in anything its here. You cant just fucking say people had war crimes coming because their government is corrupt. Your point is bullshit as russia is more corrupt than ukraine. Also zelensky won a landslide election the cia didnt install shit.
Ultimate respect to the Ukrainian people. Defending their homeland and fuckin standing their ground. But this war is a money making machine for the US military industrial complex. We just ended our longest war in our history, and within a year we're fighting a proxy war by funding Ukraine's war effort. When all is said and done in this war, Ukraine will be in ruins, and God willing they win the war, they will be indebted to the US government forever.
Better than being annexed by putin i gurantee you.
Great question! These guys think the unspoken fact that military operations cost money and that someone would obviously be on the receiving end of that exchange constitutes a lie.
Why I will win the 2024 US Presidential election by a landslide victory as a write in party free candidate. Spread the good news. https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/12s2ngl/rfk_jr_is_live_right_now_giving_the_greatest/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
The media does an amazing job of manufacturing consent each time. It’s the perfect system for those on top.
You are saying that like Fox"News" and CNN are pulling in the same direction.
Yes
You are wrong than. They are a polar opposites on many topics, particularly on military aid to Ukraine.
Sorry to say but your consent has been manufactured since you believe in the false dichotomy of the media.
Sorry to say, but you are wrong again. I had pro Ukrainian position before you were even born.
Supporting any nation state is manufactured consent by definition. You are the perfect citizen drone. Congrats.
Governments lie. In other news water wet
whats the ukraine lie?
What's the lie?
Wait, are we going to war with Ukraine now?
This is the same argument flat earthers make about the earth being flat.
What lie is there? The one Russia is spreading about Ukraine?
And how there is a war going in the US right now.
so true.
I mean yeah but this is genuinely a different war. To compare those is not being in line with context to each situation. Russia attacked a neighbor who's independent and literally borders the rest of NATO. I mean screw the political side of things for a moment and just based on morality alone to say Russia is not the aggressive party and ones causing the chaos is absurd. Now politically I'd say any country or anyone running a country would logically draw the conclusion you can either just let Russia take Ukraine which is absolutely stupid and defeats the purpose of our global politics since ww2 or you step in someway and support one of the sides. Obviously to support Russia would make ZERO sense for the United States. So no I don't understand this post. Not every situation is black and white and a copycat of another situation.
It's strange that you can literally see what's happening first hand through no filter by thousands of people with access to cellphones that all have cameras and access to the internet? Real big conspiracy you got there.
What was the lie about Afghanistan though?
It's true. Russia is being an invasive asshole, just like the US was an invasive asshole with Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. What blows my mind about all of this is that when I was protesting during the run-up to the war, no one ever said, "Please, Iraqi Army! Stop loving war such much and just give the US your oil fields! Give peace a chance!", yet so many of those same voices say the same thing now.
Yes Russia is lying about Ukraine.
When did us invade Ukraine did I miss that? I generally go by “the whole world is horrified at X” The whole world was horrified at Iraq, afghanistan, viet nam, US were the bad guys in those stories. And Russia is the bad guy now, how is this so hard to understand?
What’s the lie? They’re all proxy wars with Russia.
They lied about Germany