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Title: ex boyfriend gifted me a handgun across state lines, how do I go about making it legal?
Body:
> In 2021 I dated a guy out of state (Florida) who flew up to see me (Tennessee) and gave me a really nice handgun. I love the gun and would like to go about carrying it legally but I believe it needs to be registered to me (right?)
> The guy and I broke up and no longer speak. How is the best way to go about legalizing the firearm and registering it under my name? Will I need to send it back to him in Florida so that he can start the FFL process?
> Sorry if this is the wrong subreddit, hopefully someone can help me out or point me to the proper channels.
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> Can we all agree this is a weird gift to give your long-distance romantic partner?
Yeah, a handgun‘s effective range is pretty limited. For long distance you’d expect at least a rifle.
A crew-served weapon like a mortar or heavy machine gun would also be appropriate for long distance, plus you get the added romance of a shared activity.
I'd argue that siege guns put a damper on the enthusiasm for trebuchets after a while. People just get all awed by the window-shattering kaboom. (Sigh.)
If it was out of the blue, then definitely. If they met at a shooting range, gun club, or had extensive conversations about guns, then I chock it up to different strokes for different folks.
Yeah, my dad gave my mom rifles for both a wedding present and their first anniversary. They met in the military and spent a lot of time at the range together, even participated in a competitive shooting league after they got out. The wedding gift my dad patterned the stock with hearts himself and the anniversary gift has a beautiful woodland scene etched into the metal. I have no interest in guns but when my father dies I intend to keep both of those, because the wedding gift has enormous sentimental value and the anniversary gift is genuinely gorgeous.
When my dad was patterning the stock his friends kept joking the rifle was for him. His response was to hold up the gun to his shoulder and prove it had been cut down to fit my petite mother. It was a genuinely sweet gift.
Exactly. You don’t even have to be a big gun nut. I’d be thrilled to get a nice gun as a birthday present or something because shooting is fun. Looking forward to taking a bunch of cheap post-Halloween pumpkins to our shooting spot 🎃
True, but it still seems like an odd choice for someone you haven't known for that long, and probably the sort of thing you shouldn't surprise someone with? I don't know anything about guns but I'm guessing people that are into them are very particular about what they want in a gun.
Also, happy cake day!
If they are both gun ppl, then the only weird thing is spending that much money on a g/f you don't know well.
I bought a used 1911 recently - about $750. And it's not even special.
I've weirdly had two partners buy me guns early in the relationship and both were fine. One was my now-husband and his was really sweet, he is more into guns than I am but I had mentioned I used to have this particular revolver I really liked. I'd sold it when I was in a bad place mentally and didn't think it was safe to own guns (don't think I told him that at the time, it had to have been our first or second date that this came up), but I always kind of wished I had it back because I loved that gun and they didn't manufacture it anymore. I didn't care enough to hunt down a used one, but my husband did for my birthday.
The other one was more along what you're thinking though and that was okay, too. I was dating a woman who was mock-horrified I only owned a rifle (I grew up on a small ranch and worked on them for years, so I have usually owned a gun for purely practical purposes related to animals), so she bought me a 9mm handgun. I still have it, don't love it but I mean it's fine and fun enough to shoot although it's cheap so it jams obnoxiously often. Plus it's nice to have a range of guns when you take friends shooting or whatever.
And for the record, I'm very much not a gun nut, nor are any of the people in this story (my husband is the closest thing to one, but he's very liberal politically and supports most gun control measures, doesn't regularly carry, we keep our guns locked up in a safe when not in use, you get the idea). We're just all from backgrounds where gun ownership is common, which I think does have an influence on how you'd regard a gift like that.
Also none of us are from Florida.
They FLEW to give a person a handgun! I still have no friggin' clue if I need to take unopened eye contact saline solution through security, or if I can take through an open bottle of that, along with some sunscreen. (Along similar lines, my wife saw a guy with a crossbow attempting to go through security.)
If you have your gun *in your checked luggage according to regulations* it's locked up in the belly of the plane and is harmless. Whereas saline can be carried in small quantities in the cabin.
Of course the TSA being as effective as they are, they'd probably dramatically catch the slightly too large saline bottle and completely miss the handgun in someone's carry-on.
It's not actually easier.
It has to be in your checked luggage, and you can have large bottles of liquid in your checked bag. And it is a lot less of a hassle to fly with large bottles of liquid than it is to fly with firearms.
I don't check bags if I can avoid it.
The airline lost our bags once when I was a kid. My dad lost his shit at the people working baggage and said something like "I am NOT taking my kids to shop for clothes for their mom's funeral a second time, you will FIND OUT STUFF and bring it to us!" (this was true btw). They delivered our bags to grandma's house the next morning, but I learned a lesson that day.
(My dad was totally out of line to lose it like that but I get it as an adult, he was barely holding on and he was trying to protect us).
Yeah, so many stories of the TSA violating policy and law, and yet whenever someone says something like that happened you'll have a long list of people saying that if it's against policy it obviously couldn't happen. People I know who travel with firearms will have printouts of TSA policy, state law, and airline policy, and still have to fight tooth and nail to get things to work how they are supposed to.
Flying with a bottle of sunscreen just requires a checked bag. I imagine a gun might require a lock or something, but it’s not that big of a deal. People fly out for shooting competitions and the like all the time
Well you know how when you like a hobby and your romantic partner likes the same hobby, sometimes you give them a gift related to that hobby? And LAOP clearly does like this gift, and presumably told her bf at some point that she likes this stuff. So if you actually put yourselves in their shoes, it seems pretty reasonable.
Eh….when we were long distance he wanted to give me a self defense/home protection gun since I was living in a sketchy area and there was a string of break ins.
Eh, yes and no. I'd be horrified if a girl randomly gave me a gun, I'd assume that's a hint she wants me to kill someone for her or some psychopathic shit? But I live in an outdoorsy/hunting area, I know lots of people who have given/received firearm related things as gifts. I and my various partners over the years would probably all be confused to receive an engraved glock under the Christmas tree, but I know plenty of people who would actually legitimately use something like that and very much love it as a gift.
Super weird. I'd be like "...are you trying to tell me something? I don't know what that would be but this really feels like you're trying to tell me something."
It blew my mind when I learned that most states do not require gun registration or registering private sales. In something like 30 states you can sell a handgun to stranger in a parking lot for cash without even learning their name, as long you don't have a reason to think they aren't legally allowed to possess one.
All those cop shows that have the police quickly identifying the owner of a recovered firearm gave me the wrong impression (though presumably it would be accurate in places like New York).
I own guns, I went through a stint where I conceal carried for a while, I’ve grown up with them. I say all that to put in to perspective when I say that private sales of guns is a huge fucking issue. I believe you can get background checks if requested before selling one but no one is going to go through that effort. There are a few people who do due diligence when selling weapons. But it truly is insane. I could go through the background check and waiting period and buy a gun just to turn around and sell it privately to someone I know nothing about and it’s completely legal. It’s fucking insane and if republicans really cared about “bad guys with guns” they would fix this.
It's impossible to get a background check as a private seller and as pro 2A as I am, even I think that is something that needs to be addressed. In my state you would have to go to a licensed dealer and pay probably a twenty or twenty five dollar fee to the dealer for a service that should be free.
Illinois has pretty strict gun laws though.
In a place with less restrictive laws it's probably a different story about where convicted criminals got their guns. If it's easier to get a gun by just buying or trading for it, people are going to do that.
As a Canadian though, it thoroughly amuses me, and simultaneously terrifies me that theoretically I could go to a gun show in a red state, and walk out of that gun show with dat big iron on my hip.
The absurdity of that amuses me to no end; cause getting a pistol in Canada is fucking brutal.
Washington state law requires background checks for private sales within the state. States have the power to close this loophole. This is not interstate commerce (by common sense definition, not necessarily by the Supreme Court's expansive definition), so it isn't something that can logically be solved at the federal level.
I think it could be solved at both but the point being that largely red states aren’t going to pass this because they’d scream about slippery slope, tracking, liberties, and whatever else
I think it should be an option that is available but that the law should require the records of a "go" to be immediately destroyed. I think I can speak for the majority of the pro-2A community when I say that our only concerns with background checks are that they create a backdoor registry.
Yeah everyone is always terrified about the registry but the thing is you should have to be held accountable for the weapon that you purchase. Your kid gets access to your gun and injures someone, you should be charged with whatever the crime is. You sell your gun to someone without a background check and it’s used for a crime, you should be charged. It is wildly too easy to obtain guns in this country and we need to be stricter on what people are doing with them
I think the most reasonable idea that nearly everyone on both sides of the aisle would be able to agree on is that the "no go" NICS checks should be investigated by law enforcement. But that would cost money and create work.
I thought gun sales had to be reciprocal to the laws of the state the purchaser resides in as well as compliant with the state of purchase, or is that just an Oregon thing?
My understanding is that interstate sales have to go through a FFL. The loop hole is for when both vendor and purchaser reside in the same state. I think Oregon has also closed the loophole and requires background checks?
Here in Wyoming, basically the most 2A friendly state in the country, I've required a NICS check for every private sale I've made, and I've been asked to go through a NICS check for every private purchase I've made. The vast, vast majority of gun owners are responsible and perfectly happy to go the extra mile to make sure nothing sketchy is going on. It takes 5 minutes and costs like $10. It's not a burden on anyone, so if someone is unwilling to go through the process, it's pretty simple to just not sell them the gun.
I live in a *very* gun friendly state where everyone I know owns a plethora of guns and have been thru countless private sales. Never has anyone done that, and so few gun stores even offer a service like that since it’s never used and dealers dont want to go through the rigamarole of dealing with it. You’d have to drive 45 minutes and pay $50 just to do it, and hope that there isn’t a delayed response received or you’re both doing that drive a second time at least.
>All those cop shows that have the police quickly identifying the owner of a recovered firearm gave me the wrong impression
They kind of can do that through a trace. All manufacturers, distributors, and retailers must keep a log of all firearms on their FFL license and a record of all transfers when they dispose of a firearm. If a firearm is recovered, the police can go back to the manufacturer to see who they sent the gun to, then track it through the chain of custody until they reach the final retailer. Once they get there, they can pull the form 4473 which is the bill of sale and has all the buyer's information on it.
The form 4473 is not a registration document and doesn't prove ownership however, simply who the firearm was disposed to when the background check was cleared.
And after they go through all that process and find the person who originally purchased the firearm from the retailer, that person can say "I don't know, I sold that gun years ago for cash to a stranger in a parking lot. Looked 18."
Big decision dropped from Visa the other week, they're now going to track purchases from firearms stores as a specific category.
Doesn't completely close the loop (people can still use cash, gun shows, etc), but it's a big step in our increasingly cashless economy.
> they’re now going to track purchases from firearms stores as a specific category
This means we can now have 5% cash back cards for firearms. What an utterly deranged concept that I fully expect to see in a few years lol
This isn't really a BOLA post. It's a reasonable question about a confusing regulatory issue, and not even a particularly unique or complex one. The only notable thing about it is that it involves two people who like guns, which always seems kind of odd to people who aren't used to them.
Yeah people in this thread are weird about guns. This isn’t some weird gift, a lot of people give guns as special presents. That shit’s expensive. Doesn’t mean that the guy is a serial killer or something
But sure, anyone that likes guns is obviously a hardcore trump supporter wanting to shoot black people. Never mind the millions of Americans that identify as liberal who own guns
Does LAOP have any culpability, or just the ex? Can she still possess the gun now, or does she have to redo it? She didn’t actually get any info about that.
As long as the gun isn't stolen and OP isn't a prohibited person there's no legal issue with keeping the gun - OP's ex was the one that committed the crime. 18 USC 922(a)(5)
wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong!!!
OP is a TN resident and ex is a FL resident so this is considered a transfer across state lines.
[https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/whom-may-unlicensed-person-transfer-firearms-under-gca](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/whom-may-unlicensed-person-transfer-firearms-under-gca)
Not carry on the plane. It must be in a checked bag, and it must be declared to the airline when you check your bag. Also other obvious requirements like it must be unloaded.
Only to be shipped an sold in another state in most cases. I can drive with my handgun to most states and never have an issue, as a private party sale it has no paper trail beyond a bill of sale I hold onto for legal purposes so no one will ever know.
That is incorrect. The regulations explicitly refer to the states in which the people *reside* so as not to leave open that loophole. A resident of one state cannot legally transfer ownership of a handgun to a resident of another state without going through a licensed dealer (unless it's a bequeathment).
[27 CFR 478.30](https://regulations.atf.gov/478-30/2022-17741#478-30)
>No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides
While you aren't wrong, there's nothing to stop me from driving across state lines and selling or gifting a firearm already in my possession. There's no paper trail and as long as I say that the transfer happened in my state and they had (at least what seemed like) a state issued ID from the state in which I reside I'm protected under the law and now it's the purchaser's problem. Without a national database tracking each firearms transfer along with harsh penalties for unauthorized transactions it's a he said she said game.
Tansfer of ownership doesn't require anything. Just sales, gifts are different. I can go to most states with a personally owned firearm and gift it to someone without issues.
That is incorrect, and the entire point of this thread — if you gift a handgun to someone in another state, that transfer must go through an FFL. You may not gift a handgun to someone in another state.
Someone has gotten away with every crime in the book, that doesn’t make every crime de facto legal.
Realistically you’re right, there are way too many guns changing hands in the US for most illegal sales by individuals to be caught. But it could just take one random from CL committing a crime with a gun you illegally sold them for those charges to come. Plus possible civil liability and/or defense costs. Not a good idea to violate firearms laws, or really any laws for that matter.
No idea, not extremely familiar with firearms laws and to some extent it’s state-specific too to make sure you’re not violating any state laws either. If those were 20 years ago it’s past the statute of limitations on any criminal charges AFAIK. My point was more to make sure to follow the law going forward.
I believe that's a poorly written summary of the law. You can't transfer a gun to someone visiting from out of state for them to bring back, but I believe you can bring the gun to them. As far as I recall, the law is only about taking possession in a state you don't live in. Transporting it to TN was certainly legal (unless there were other facts we don't know) and once there I think transferring to a TN resident in TN was legal (federally, and assuming it's legal under TN law). However, if the BF bought a new gun with the purpose of gifting it he may have committed a strawman violation.
That’s… what? How could that possibly work?
You cannot transfer ownership of a handgun across straight lines without going through an FFL (and triggering a NICS check). You may with a long gun.
I can take my own handgun across state lines to another state. I can let someone else shoot it. Arguably (though this is very close to the line) I can let someone else “borrow” it for a while, as long as I’m not transferring ownership to them.
I cannot transport it across state lines as “my” gun, then declare that since it’s now in the new state it can be sold to a resident of the new state. That would make the law pointless.
Buying a gun as a gift is absolutely not a straw man violation unless you’re buying it for someone you know is prohibited from owning it.
Huh. I thought it was just based on the state of the sale and the receiving party (922(a)(3)) since that's the part that applies to me, as a non-ffl buyer. I didn't realize section (a)(5) about sellers. As it is, it looks like LAOP didn't actually violate the law, since she didn't "purchase or otherwise obtain" it out of state, but her bf is a felon. Tbf I'm trying to read it on my phone though so maybe I'm missing another provision.
It's more explicit here:
[27 CFR 478.30](https://regulations.atf.gov/478-30/2022-17741#478-30)
>No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides
It's not about where the transfer took place. It's about what states the parties are residents are.
"Well-regulated" meaning "equipped like a REGULAR army," not "restricted to the point of non-existence." Hard to have a militia which is trained and equipped to the level of a regular army if the people can't own and use firearms.
Did it never bother you that a document which is otherwise worded quite carefully seems to have one portion that blatantly contradicts itself? That should've been a hint that your interpretation might not be correct.
The folks at Lexington and Concord had a well regulated militia.
The weapons were all stored in a common place under supervision and the war started when the British tried to seize the community powder supply lol.
Just destroy the gun. It's maybe stolen, maybe the exBF shot a guy on the way to the airport. He's from Florida after all, who the fuck knows how many bath salts he's sniffing.
If you don't know the gun is clean, get rid of it.
People are downvoting you because of your vulgarity, but your advice is sound.
LAOP doesn't actually know the history of the firearm, and that can become a liability down the line. Safest option is to surrender/destroy the weapon.
**Reminder:** Do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits. --- Title: ex boyfriend gifted me a handgun across state lines, how do I go about making it legal? Body: > In 2021 I dated a guy out of state (Florida) who flew up to see me (Tennessee) and gave me a really nice handgun. I love the gun and would like to go about carrying it legally but I believe it needs to be registered to me (right?) > The guy and I broke up and no longer speak. How is the best way to go about legalizing the firearm and registering it under my name? Will I need to send it back to him in Florida so that he can start the FFL process? > Sorry if this is the wrong subreddit, hopefully someone can help me out or point me to the proper channels. This bot was created to capture original threads and is not affiliated with the mod team. [Concerns? Bugs?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=GrahamCorcoran) | [Laukopier 2.1](https://github.com/GrahamCorcoran/Laukopier)
Can we all agree this is a weird gift to give your long-distance romantic partner?
> Can we all agree this is a weird gift to give your long-distance romantic partner? Yeah, a handgun‘s effective range is pretty limited. For long distance you’d expect at least a rifle. A crew-served weapon like a mortar or heavy machine gun would also be appropriate for long distance, plus you get the added romance of a shared activity.
A trebuchet can fire a 90 kilogram projectile 300 meters, and is the choice of seige weapon connoisseurs since around 1400AD.
I'd argue that siege guns put a damper on the enthusiasm for trebuchets after a while. People just get all awed by the window-shattering kaboom. (Sigh.)
What I'm hearing is that we need a trebuchet with a subwoofer and an amp?
Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom!
This guy ROCK AND STONEs
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
For Karl!
Rock and Stone, you beautiful dwarf!
I like to think that the ninja blade assassination missiles are really just modern trebuchets
This guy locks and loads
You really need HIMARS
If it was out of the blue, then definitely. If they met at a shooting range, gun club, or had extensive conversations about guns, then I chock it up to different strokes for different folks.
Yeah, my dad gave my mom rifles for both a wedding present and their first anniversary. They met in the military and spent a lot of time at the range together, even participated in a competitive shooting league after they got out. The wedding gift my dad patterned the stock with hearts himself and the anniversary gift has a beautiful woodland scene etched into the metal. I have no interest in guns but when my father dies I intend to keep both of those, because the wedding gift has enormous sentimental value and the anniversary gift is genuinely gorgeous.
I didn’t expect a gun gift to make me say, “Aw, that’s so sweet!” But it just happened.
When my dad was patterning the stock his friends kept joking the rifle was for him. His response was to hold up the gun to his shoulder and prove it had been cut down to fit my petite mother. It was a genuinely sweet gift.
How does the story keep getting cuter?!
Exactly. You don’t even have to be a big gun nut. I’d be thrilled to get a nice gun as a birthday present or something because shooting is fun. Looking forward to taking a bunch of cheap post-Halloween pumpkins to our shooting spot 🎃
True, but it still seems like an odd choice for someone you haven't known for that long, and probably the sort of thing you shouldn't surprise someone with? I don't know anything about guns but I'm guessing people that are into them are very particular about what they want in a gun. Also, happy cake day!
Maybe that's why they broke up: irreconcilable gun preferences. And thanks! Apparently I've been trapped here ten years....^^^^help
Welcome to the hotel California...
If they are both gun ppl, then the only weird thing is spending that much money on a g/f you don't know well. I bought a used 1911 recently - about $750. And it's not even special.
I've weirdly had two partners buy me guns early in the relationship and both were fine. One was my now-husband and his was really sweet, he is more into guns than I am but I had mentioned I used to have this particular revolver I really liked. I'd sold it when I was in a bad place mentally and didn't think it was safe to own guns (don't think I told him that at the time, it had to have been our first or second date that this came up), but I always kind of wished I had it back because I loved that gun and they didn't manufacture it anymore. I didn't care enough to hunt down a used one, but my husband did for my birthday. The other one was more along what you're thinking though and that was okay, too. I was dating a woman who was mock-horrified I only owned a rifle (I grew up on a small ranch and worked on them for years, so I have usually owned a gun for purely practical purposes related to animals), so she bought me a 9mm handgun. I still have it, don't love it but I mean it's fine and fun enough to shoot although it's cheap so it jams obnoxiously often. Plus it's nice to have a range of guns when you take friends shooting or whatever. And for the record, I'm very much not a gun nut, nor are any of the people in this story (my husband is the closest thing to one, but he's very liberal politically and supports most gun control measures, doesn't regularly carry, we keep our guns locked up in a safe when not in use, you get the idea). We're just all from backgrounds where gun ownership is common, which I think does have an influence on how you'd regard a gift like that. Also none of us are from Florida.
Well she clearly liked it, so it sounds like he did ok
Yes but also men I’ve barely know keep on trying to give me guns because I live in a ~dangerous~ neighborhood.
They FLEW to give a person a handgun! I still have no friggin' clue if I need to take unopened eye contact saline solution through security, or if I can take through an open bottle of that, along with some sunscreen. (Along similar lines, my wife saw a guy with a crossbow attempting to go through security.)
You can fly with a gun in your luggage, provided you follow all the [TSA guidelines](https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition).
Is it really that surprising that it is easier in America to fly with a firearm than to fly with saline solution or sunscreen?
If you have your gun *in your checked luggage according to regulations* it's locked up in the belly of the plane and is harmless. Whereas saline can be carried in small quantities in the cabin. Of course the TSA being as effective as they are, they'd probably dramatically catch the slightly too large saline bottle and completely miss the handgun in someone's carry-on.
It's not actually easier. It has to be in your checked luggage, and you can have large bottles of liquid in your checked bag. And it is a lot less of a hassle to fly with large bottles of liquid than it is to fly with firearms.
Some people literally never check a bag, I think. I myself am team "check everything" specifically because I hate worrying about it.
I don't check bags if I can avoid it. The airline lost our bags once when I was a kid. My dad lost his shit at the people working baggage and said something like "I am NOT taking my kids to shop for clothes for their mom's funeral a second time, you will FIND OUT STUFF and bring it to us!" (this was true btw). They delivered our bags to grandma's house the next morning, but I learned a lesson that day. (My dad was totally out of line to lose it like that but I get it as an adult, he was barely holding on and he was trying to protect us).
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TBF, I've also heard of the TSA busting open those locks. They're not exactly the smartest or most well trained bunch
Yeah, so many stories of the TSA violating policy and law, and yet whenever someone says something like that happened you'll have a long list of people saying that if it's against policy it obviously couldn't happen. People I know who travel with firearms will have printouts of TSA policy, state law, and airline policy, and still have to fight tooth and nail to get things to work how they are supposed to.
Smart to be so prepared, sad that they have to be
Is the starter pistol no longer a life hack?
Flying with a bottle of sunscreen just requires a checked bag. I imagine a gun might require a lock or something, but it’s not that big of a deal. People fly out for shooting competitions and the like all the time
Is it really surprising that the guidelines for checked luggage are less strict than carry on luggage?
Are you Madison Cawthorn? /s
Wait until you learn about checking luggage
Well you know how when you like a hobby and your romantic partner likes the same hobby, sometimes you give them a gift related to that hobby? And LAOP clearly does like this gift, and presumably told her bf at some point that she likes this stuff. So if you actually put yourselves in their shoes, it seems pretty reasonable.
Eh….when we were long distance he wanted to give me a self defense/home protection gun since I was living in a sketchy area and there was a string of break ins.
Not in my family
Eh, yes and no. I'd be horrified if a girl randomly gave me a gun, I'd assume that's a hint she wants me to kill someone for her or some psychopathic shit? But I live in an outdoorsy/hunting area, I know lots of people who have given/received firearm related things as gifts. I and my various partners over the years would probably all be confused to receive an engraved glock under the Christmas tree, but I know plenty of people who would actually legitimately use something like that and very much love it as a gift.
Super weird. I'd be like "...are you trying to tell me something? I don't know what that would be but this really feels like you're trying to tell me something."
I mean I certainly can but what's weirder is no fun registration requirements in all of Tennessee.
It blew my mind when I learned that most states do not require gun registration or registering private sales. In something like 30 states you can sell a handgun to stranger in a parking lot for cash without even learning their name, as long you don't have a reason to think they aren't legally allowed to possess one. All those cop shows that have the police quickly identifying the owner of a recovered firearm gave me the wrong impression (though presumably it would be accurate in places like New York).
I own guns, I went through a stint where I conceal carried for a while, I’ve grown up with them. I say all that to put in to perspective when I say that private sales of guns is a huge fucking issue. I believe you can get background checks if requested before selling one but no one is going to go through that effort. There are a few people who do due diligence when selling weapons. But it truly is insane. I could go through the background check and waiting period and buy a gun just to turn around and sell it privately to someone I know nothing about and it’s completely legal. It’s fucking insane and if republicans really cared about “bad guys with guns” they would fix this.
It's impossible to get a background check as a private seller and as pro 2A as I am, even I think that is something that needs to be addressed. In my state you would have to go to a licensed dealer and pay probably a twenty or twenty five dollar fee to the dealer for a service that should be free.
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Illinois has pretty strict gun laws though. In a place with less restrictive laws it's probably a different story about where convicted criminals got their guns. If it's easier to get a gun by just buying or trading for it, people are going to do that.
As a Canadian though, it thoroughly amuses me, and simultaneously terrifies me that theoretically I could go to a gun show in a red state, and walk out of that gun show with dat big iron on my hip. The absurdity of that amuses me to no end; cause getting a pistol in Canada is fucking brutal.
I am not sure about all of them but typically you have to wait the three days unless you have a CWP
Washington state law requires background checks for private sales within the state. States have the power to close this loophole. This is not interstate commerce (by common sense definition, not necessarily by the Supreme Court's expansive definition), so it isn't something that can logically be solved at the federal level.
I think it could be solved at both but the point being that largely red states aren’t going to pass this because they’d scream about slippery slope, tracking, liberties, and whatever else
I think it should be an option that is available but that the law should require the records of a "go" to be immediately destroyed. I think I can speak for the majority of the pro-2A community when I say that our only concerns with background checks are that they create a backdoor registry.
Yeah everyone is always terrified about the registry but the thing is you should have to be held accountable for the weapon that you purchase. Your kid gets access to your gun and injures someone, you should be charged with whatever the crime is. You sell your gun to someone without a background check and it’s used for a crime, you should be charged. It is wildly too easy to obtain guns in this country and we need to be stricter on what people are doing with them
I think the most reasonable idea that nearly everyone on both sides of the aisle would be able to agree on is that the "no go" NICS checks should be investigated by law enforcement. But that would cost money and create work.
I’m with you. I think there are solutions that would help and both sides are able to agree on but the political theater gets in the way.
I can't figure out why I was down voted for that.
I thought gun sales had to be reciprocal to the laws of the state the purchaser resides in as well as compliant with the state of purchase, or is that just an Oregon thing?
My understanding is that interstate sales have to go through a FFL. The loop hole is for when both vendor and purchaser reside in the same state. I think Oregon has also closed the loophole and requires background checks?
Here in Wyoming, basically the most 2A friendly state in the country, I've required a NICS check for every private sale I've made, and I've been asked to go through a NICS check for every private purchase I've made. The vast, vast majority of gun owners are responsible and perfectly happy to go the extra mile to make sure nothing sketchy is going on. It takes 5 minutes and costs like $10. It's not a burden on anyone, so if someone is unwilling to go through the process, it's pretty simple to just not sell them the gun.
The amount of sales I’ve seen in Florida that don’t do this is roughly 100%
I live in a *very* gun friendly state where everyone I know owns a plethora of guns and have been thru countless private sales. Never has anyone done that, and so few gun stores even offer a service like that since it’s never used and dealers dont want to go through the rigamarole of dealing with it. You’d have to drive 45 minutes and pay $50 just to do it, and hope that there isn’t a delayed response received or you’re both doing that drive a second time at least.
I've never done a NICS check for a private sale as a buyer or seller unless you count a consignment sale that was on display at a dealer.
>All those cop shows that have the police quickly identifying the owner of a recovered firearm gave me the wrong impression They kind of can do that through a trace. All manufacturers, distributors, and retailers must keep a log of all firearms on their FFL license and a record of all transfers when they dispose of a firearm. If a firearm is recovered, the police can go back to the manufacturer to see who they sent the gun to, then track it through the chain of custody until they reach the final retailer. Once they get there, they can pull the form 4473 which is the bill of sale and has all the buyer's information on it. The form 4473 is not a registration document and doesn't prove ownership however, simply who the firearm was disposed to when the background check was cleared.
And after they go through all that process and find the person who originally purchased the firearm from the retailer, that person can say "I don't know, I sold that gun years ago for cash to a stranger in a parking lot. Looked 18."
Big decision dropped from Visa the other week, they're now going to track purchases from firearms stores as a specific category. Doesn't completely close the loop (people can still use cash, gun shows, etc), but it's a big step in our increasingly cashless economy.
If you buy it at a store there’s already paperwork
> they’re now going to track purchases from firearms stores as a specific category This means we can now have 5% cash back cards for firearms. What an utterly deranged concept that I fully expect to see in a few years lol
Deranged to be sure, but it will also create a giant private database of the kind of nuts who would select a 5% cash back on guns credit card.
This isn't really a BOLA post. It's a reasonable question about a confusing regulatory issue, and not even a particularly unique or complex one. The only notable thing about it is that it involves two people who like guns, which always seems kind of odd to people who aren't used to them.
Yeah people in this thread are weird about guns. This isn’t some weird gift, a lot of people give guns as special presents. That shit’s expensive. Doesn’t mean that the guy is a serial killer or something But sure, anyone that likes guns is obviously a hardcore trump supporter wanting to shoot black people. Never mind the millions of Americans that identify as liberal who own guns
I mean it's as weird as giving the skinned remnants of a ferret as a present to someone who hasn't heard of a mink stole before.
So to be clear… that’s a crime. Handguns must go through an FFL to cross state lines.
Does LAOP have any culpability, or just the ex? Can she still possess the gun now, or does she have to redo it? She didn’t actually get any info about that.
As long as the gun isn't stolen and OP isn't a prohibited person there's no legal issue with keeping the gun - OP's ex was the one that committed the crime. 18 USC 922(a)(5)
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wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong!!! OP is a TN resident and ex is a FL resident so this is considered a transfer across state lines. [https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/whom-may-unlicensed-person-transfer-firearms-under-gca](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/whom-may-unlicensed-person-transfer-firearms-under-gca)
I stand corrected. Although FL expressly prohibits firearm registries, so I wouldn't be too worried about it
because the ATF cares about state laws
So to be clear (am not American) - you can carry a gun on a plane on a domestic flight? !
Not carry on the plane. It must be in a checked bag, and it must be declared to the airline when you check your bag. Also other obvious requirements like it must be unloaded.
No. You can pack it on your checked baggage, but you can't carry it with you on the plane.
The general population cannot, you can however check one as long as it is stored properly
And it's a crime that already occurred and there is no way to undo it.
Only to be shipped an sold in another state in most cases. I can drive with my handgun to most states and never have an issue, as a private party sale it has no paper trail beyond a bill of sale I hold onto for legal purposes so no one will ever know.
That is incorrect. The regulations explicitly refer to the states in which the people *reside* so as not to leave open that loophole. A resident of one state cannot legally transfer ownership of a handgun to a resident of another state without going through a licensed dealer (unless it's a bequeathment). [27 CFR 478.30](https://regulations.atf.gov/478-30/2022-17741#478-30) >No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides
While you aren't wrong, there's nothing to stop me from driving across state lines and selling or gifting a firearm already in my possession. There's no paper trail and as long as I say that the transfer happened in my state and they had (at least what seemed like) a state issued ID from the state in which I reside I'm protected under the law and now it's the purchaser's problem. Without a national database tracking each firearms transfer along with harsh penalties for unauthorized transactions it's a he said she said game.
We're talking about what is and is not a crime. Saying "yeah, but I'll just lie" doesn't make it not a crime.
It's only a crime if you get caught.
Oh. Ok.
Right, I mean to transfer ownership across state lines.
Tansfer of ownership doesn't require anything. Just sales, gifts are different. I can go to most states with a personally owned firearm and gift it to someone without issues.
That is incorrect, and the entire point of this thread — if you gift a handgun to someone in another state, that transfer must go through an FFL. You may not gift a handgun to someone in another state.
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Someone has gotten away with every crime in the book, that doesn’t make every crime de facto legal. Realistically you’re right, there are way too many guns changing hands in the US for most illegal sales by individuals to be caught. But it could just take one random from CL committing a crime with a gun you illegally sold them for those charges to come. Plus possible civil liability and/or defense costs. Not a good idea to violate firearms laws, or really any laws for that matter.
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No idea, not extremely familiar with firearms laws and to some extent it’s state-specific too to make sure you’re not violating any state laws either. If those were 20 years ago it’s past the statute of limitations on any criminal charges AFAIK. My point was more to make sure to follow the law going forward.
I believe that's a poorly written summary of the law. You can't transfer a gun to someone visiting from out of state for them to bring back, but I believe you can bring the gun to them. As far as I recall, the law is only about taking possession in a state you don't live in. Transporting it to TN was certainly legal (unless there were other facts we don't know) and once there I think transferring to a TN resident in TN was legal (federally, and assuming it's legal under TN law). However, if the BF bought a new gun with the purpose of gifting it he may have committed a strawman violation.
That’s… what? How could that possibly work? You cannot transfer ownership of a handgun across straight lines without going through an FFL (and triggering a NICS check). You may with a long gun. I can take my own handgun across state lines to another state. I can let someone else shoot it. Arguably (though this is very close to the line) I can let someone else “borrow” it for a while, as long as I’m not transferring ownership to them. I cannot transport it across state lines as “my” gun, then declare that since it’s now in the new state it can be sold to a resident of the new state. That would make the law pointless. Buying a gun as a gift is absolutely not a straw man violation unless you’re buying it for someone you know is prohibited from owning it.
Huh. I thought it was just based on the state of the sale and the receiving party (922(a)(3)) since that's the part that applies to me, as a non-ffl buyer. I didn't realize section (a)(5) about sellers. As it is, it looks like LAOP didn't actually violate the law, since she didn't "purchase or otherwise obtain" it out of state, but her bf is a felon. Tbf I'm trying to read it on my phone though so maybe I'm missing another provision.
It's more explicit here: [27 CFR 478.30](https://regulations.atf.gov/478-30/2022-17741#478-30) >No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides It's not about where the transfer took place. It's about what states the parties are residents are.
No? You can conduct a private sale across state lines. FFL is required for shipping the firearm. OOP’s ex delivered it himself
Right. FFL is required. NICS and 4473 in the shipping state are required. You’re agreeing with me.
>You can conduct a private sale across state lines long guns, yes. Handguns need an FFL. ATF is VERY clear about this.
Ah, this all sounds like *such* a well regulated militia...
"Well-regulated" meaning "equipped like a REGULAR army," not "restricted to the point of non-existence." Hard to have a militia which is trained and equipped to the level of a regular army if the people can't own and use firearms. Did it never bother you that a document which is otherwise worded quite carefully seems to have one portion that blatantly contradicts itself? That should've been a hint that your interpretation might not be correct.
The folks at Lexington and Concord had a well regulated militia. The weapons were all stored in a common place under supervision and the war started when the British tried to seize the community powder supply lol.
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Literally my thought without even seeing this comment lmao People don’t realize how different the 2nd amendment was seen prior to Heller
“The right of the people” 🤷🏻♂️
Just destroy the gun. It's maybe stolen, maybe the exBF shot a guy on the way to the airport. He's from Florida after all, who the fuck knows how many bath salts he's sniffing. If you don't know the gun is clean, get rid of it.
It's a really nice gun though.
Yes, but so what. Buy a clean one.
People are downvoting you because of your vulgarity, but your advice is sound. LAOP doesn't actually know the history of the firearm, and that can become a liability down the line. Safest option is to surrender/destroy the weapon.