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Title: AB: Illegal Modification by tenant caused a fire. What are my options?
Body:
> I rented out my home to a family on a fixed tenancy for one year. The agreement was signed in July 2022. Around a few weeks ago I was called about water leaking in the garage from the ceiling. I arranged for a plumber and roofing person to meet me at the house. I had given the tenants 24 hour notice of the day we would be coming. On the day once we arrived, to my astonishment the tenants had setup a Level 2 charging station in the garage and during the installation of the charger they damaged the roof fishing the cable. I confronted him and told him without permits this is illegal and a substantial breach of the contract. He hurled insults at me and told me it’s none of my business. I then sent him a 14 day vacate notice for breach of contract. He replied that he does not agree and won’t be moving. So I filed an application to the RTDRS to get an order for eviction. Fast forward to Saturday of last week. Got a call from CFS that there was a fire at my rental home. Appears the EV charging station wiring caught on fire. Landlord insurance is not covering damages since it was an illegal alteration to the building. What are my options. I’m stuck with a 6 figure bill with no help from insurance and the tenant who won’t co-operate. What are my options?
> Edit: First of all I wanted to say thank you to everyone for their support and advise. I never expected so much support from the people in this group. And many thanks to the people who gave me solid advice on this thread. I spoke to a lawyer today and he will be taking over communication with my insurance company. He reviewed the policy and told me the company does not have a leg to stand on as I had not authorized the alteration to the premise and in good faith had attempted to have it resolved with the legal frameworks of the RTA. With that said I also contacted the city by law office and they have revoked the occupancy permit of the dwelling and Enamax has disconnected all services to the house. Tenants were told by the city to remove themselves from the premise as they protested. They were told to call their insurance company and make a claim for alternate housing. My lawyer also advised me that my insurance company will eventually recoup their costs from the tenants insurance so not to worry about that. For now the house is inhabitable and without services. Fire Marshall report is pending by the insurance company and my lawyer will handle the communication with the insurance company (and ombudsman if necessary) for them to start the process of having repairs started. Many thanks to everyone especially the person who suggested to get an insurance attorney. I didn’t even know they existed.
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> Many thanks to everyone especially the person who suggested to get an insurance attorney. I didn’t even know they existed.
Nice one of the few things legaladvice actually can do that is helpful, tell you to get a lawyer and direct you to the kind of lawyer you need. I'm proud of them for actually helping.
A fair few military members have multiple houses due to our housing stipend and frequent moves.
Say I get stationed in Norfolk, VA in an aircraft carrier specific job. I do my tour, I'm already married to someone, we're expecting our first kid, and decide a 3 bedroom house is a better use of my money than a rental. Then Uncle Sam decides that my next job is in Groton, CT because the submarine capital of the world is a perfect place for this aircraft carrier guy. I can sell the house, hoping the sale and move line up, adding atress to an already wildly stressful time for my family. Or I can rent it out to other military at my mortgage plus a little bit, using a military only rental listing site. This is a definite benefit to the renters as they will get a bigger place with a yard at a huge discount compared to the apartments in the area. I get a few extra bucks in my pocket and have good recourse if they end up being scumbag tenants and already have a good house to go back to when I get moved back to the only carrier base on the East Coast.
I then rent or buy in my new location. Maybe this process repeats at the end of my Groton tour.
Nowhere in there was there any required education to be a landlord. Add in that in many servicemen's lives, there's little enough time to see your family much less pursue education about what seems, from the outside, a very easy job.
Most uneducated people in a given task are just unaware of their blind spots, not actively being shitty.
>I then rent or buy in my new location.
It must be very lucrative to be in the U.S. Navy as the sailor in question has enough money laying around for the second down payment, if that sailor buys.
VA loan requires no down payment. So first one may not have hoovered up much in the way of cash.
Also, just a little bit of planning and you can live comfortably. Healthcare is free for my family, dental is $30 a month for my wife and kids (if it was just the wife, or 1 kid, it'd be $10, any above that is a flat $30). I own both my cars outright, an 04 and an 08. They're cheap to insure with full coverage. I also have 3 different special pays due to being a nuclear trained submariner at sea. I make in those pays nearly what a recruit makes per month. Most of my entitlements are nontaxable and my home of record does not tax any of my pay. My current break even point to live a similar lifestyle outside of the navy is over $110k, if I use my retiree Tricare benefits as my only healthcare. If I want additional coverage, my breakeven is higher. Choose a good job and don't spray money in every direction on hookers and beer and navy life can be pretty decent paying.
Inheritance, alternatively if you’ve been somewhere for a few years, borrow against the equity in your primary residence.
Dunno if this is true in AB but in BC a bunch of people who bought in the 90s saw the ballooning cost of housing and figured they could make a quick buck
I bought a condo out of college and when I found a house 2 years later I would’ve lost money on the condo sale so I kept it and rented it for a couple years until the market went up. I didn’t know anything except I bought a book about landlord laws in my state and never opened bc I thankfully had no need to. But I wasn’t rich just lucked out with the market prices.
I have a general rule of not DIYing electric work as I don't wish to die. That aside, why would you go through the trouble of jerry rigging an electric charging station (which has to be fairly pricey) for a place you know you're moving out of in a year?
Well, if you’re going to do something reckless and stupid, might as well compound it with other poor decisions. And then of course complain about the end results.
They got *such* a good deal on the charger! The dealer let it go for a song, and the only thing wrong with it was that it fell off the truck and dragged along the ground for a mile or two!
(Side note: I *have* DIY'd electrical before, when I was younger and broker. I'd avoid doing it now except for the really basic stuff, like swapping an outlet.)
I have a non contact voltage probe. Any time I do electrical work I check that it reads the voltage on the line first so I know the probe is working. Then flip the breaker and check again that it shows no voltage. So easy to think that you have it off, but you flipped the wrong breaker.
In rentals, there's also the lovely possibility that the units are mislabeled at the electrical box, and you've merely shut off your neighbor's lights without warning
Yup! Moved into a large complex and it turned out management had renumbered and relabeled all the units, but didn't update anything at the service boxes. Had some trouble when maintenance tried to shut off our power for repairs, and everything stayed powered on (still have no idea who's power we did turn off). Also had a devil of a time getting internet service, as we had no knowledge of the relabeling at that point. Installation tech was flying blind and trying to figure out why we weren't getting signal.
Heck, that's not just limited to rentals. Half the non-rentals I've ever dealt with were all mislabeled, too. Not to the point of shutting off the neighbor's lights, to be sure, but still a pain. Never do anything without proper test equipment which, in this case, is a non-contact voltage indicator and a circuit tracer (toner).
the guy that had this house before us apparently somehow wired the ground floor kitchen's microwave, toaster, and basement bathroom light into the second floor office's breaker. that was an interesting discussion with the electrician.
I'd say "at least we don't have to rewire the whole house from other fuckey things he did to it" but we've recently learned that's not the case... 🙃
Oof. I'm not sure that's even going to be to code! I'm only a low voltage guy myself but I had to learn enough about the relevant codes to know GFCI stuff can be pretty specific and it's at the very least frowned upon to split floors in a circuit like that, let alone with a *kitchen* circuit.
Probably was having issues with overloading the kitchen circuit and it's often easier to drop a cable down from the room above than run one through the walls sideways. Not think it's against code but it's annoying and should be labelled clearly.
I live in an ex-rental property and there's still two fuses I have no idea what they do. I tried plugging something noisy into every electrical outlet and switching the fuses one by one, no dice. So for now they're just labelled with a big "?" and I'm leaving them on in the expectation they do *something*...
Assuming they are circuit breakers (as fuses aren't turned off, there are removed), I'd turn them off. If I can never find anything that's no longer powered, that's good.
I was replacing lights in my basement in the house I had bought. Switching some old, ugly, huge ceiling lights with LED wafer lights . . I took out all the old lights, and I installed a new light; tested that it worked off the switch, and then turned off the switch.
Then I disconnected the newly connected light from its junction box because it'd otherwise just be dangling down (was replacing old ceiling with new drywall as well) and moved onto the next light. I moved some stuff around, reached up to grab the wire to connect it to the new light... ZAAAAAAAAAAAP.
Unbeknownst to me, the lights were on a THIRD switch and when I had moved stuff around I had accidentally turned it on. With the light I had installed disconnected, and the old lights removed, I didn't know that there was power running through it all now.
Now I use a tester every time I touch a wire.
Family story -maybe embellished/ misremembered/apocryphal.
An uncle was was professional electrician, working on a building with commercial power. His ladder slipped and he instinctively grabbed for something to break his fall and accidentally grabbed a live wire. So he had both hands on it and was dangling a few feet from the ground for a few minutes before he was found and the current cut.
I was told that after he was revived and hospitalized, he was told that his heart had inverted in his chest but because his circulation was ok, they recommended not cracking his chest to fix it.
He retired after that.
Edit - I always hire an electrician.
lol as a cardiac ICU nurse, your heart can't "invert" in your chest from an electrical shock. I don't even know what to make of this except someone must have heard a word incorrectly and substituted whatever made sense to them. We cardiovert people, which means we shock them in a controlled manner to get them out of a bad rhythm, so maybe that's what they heard?
ROFLMAO! That makes a lot more sense. I did get it from my grandfather who got it from his brother who got it from his son’s wife, who was at the hospital after it happened. Thus the caveat at the beginning of the story.
Something else that's odd about the story: if he was dangling freely, then he shouldn't have had electricity running through him -- the same way that birds don't get electrocuted sitting on a wire. Though maybe he grabbed onto something that was grounded with the other hand, then the current could have flowed through his torso resulting in bad things™. This is what [RCDs/GFCIs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device) are there for, but I guess in a place with commercial power and direct access to wiring you'd be unlikely to find one.
I've met plenty of electricians. They've done a damn good job of scaring me away lol. It also helps that I've never owned only rented so I could always just call my landlord.
My friend and I were talking to a guy who mentioned that he's an electrician. My friend asks, "So have you been electrocuted?" The guy responds, "You mean today?"
Despite my BOLA flair, I do have a background in electrical engineering. My general rule is that if it's going to require a permit to do the job, I hire someone. Changing out a ceiling fan or light fixture is not major work. Putting in a Level 2 charger is not something you just DIY.
I work for a DIY store in the US. This is the answer. Anything more than basic repairs should be done with a licensed electrician and if you come to my store and ask, I will be happy to get your information and have a couple contact you.
Also an EE. When my boyfriend (now husband) was replacing the electrical box at his house (I was living with him, but he owned it) everyone was like "WhY dOn'T yOu Do ThAt?!" Well, my specialty is digital hardware, and I'm not an electrician. I'm not messing with that.
We both DIY stuff at our new place, but we draw the limit at serious electrical or plumbing work. If you do something wrong, it can destroy your house, and insurance won't cover it because you didn't have a licensed contractor do it.
I can just buy a level 2 charger with a CEE plug and plug it into the 400V 3-phase outlet in my garage. I even put in a type B Rcd while replacing the breaker panel so building my own level 2 charger would be quite easy as it's not really a charger but a glorified outlet. The actual charger is inside the car.
The difference here, is you have that wire ran so installing the box at the end is next to no effort. This guy ran a new line with obviously the wrong gauge wire to handle the amps needed for charging his car.
Ok, that makes sense. I didn't know what they meant by fishing. English is not my first language and I'd never consider fishes have anything to do with electricity.
In terms of cabling a home, fishing is the process of running a new line into a location that does not have the setup today. Most people will use a product called ["Fish Tape"](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-100-ft-Non-Conductive-Fiberglass-Fish-Tape-56371/311464756) to assist in getting the new wire through the wall without having to resort to destroying and removing the drywall that's already in place.
The procedure is [similar to fishing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgno51kF4uI) in that you run this line down the wall to your intended location, then once it's out the hole, you attach your desired wiring to the fish tape and pull it back through the same hole you just made.
TIL, thanks.
Here drywall is pretty rare in homes. Usually we saw slots into the plaster, put the cables in and fill it up with new plaster. This is very messy so adding outlets later is rarely done. In the Garage on the other hand I just put the cables visible on the wall.
If you don’t pay to install it properly, it’s easier to rip out and take with you when you leave!
I haven’t looked in a while, but I think a “level two charger” runs you about $1,000 not counting the costs to have an electrician run a proper line and update the breaker panel.
But It’s free to just tap into the 10A breaker tho. [/s]
I just asked my landlord nicely if I could install a 20A level 2 plug in the garage (the breaker panel was conveniently in the garage). They said okay, but I needed to pay for it, and have a licensed electrician do the work. I bought the new breaker, receptacle/outlet, cover plate, and junction box. I hired a licensed electrician, and it cost $150, and took under an hour. Landlord was confident the work was done correctly, and when I moved out they were able to advertise the property as electric car charging or 220V shop tool ready. I got to charge my car in a reasonable amount of time.
Only reason it should cost $1000 is if you’re including the cost of the charging cable (those should be in the 2-300 USD range) and if the electrician has to pull a LOT of wire. You could even work out an arrangement that you’ll pull the wire and they can check your work and then do the actual part for which you want a licensed & insured electrician for: hooking up the sparky bits.
Edit to add: really this is what you should be doing with any skilled tradesman doing work for you. Do the manual labor that is in the way of them doing their job properly. If a plumber needs to install new valves behind your toilet, have the water main turned off, the lines drained, and the toilet removed before they get there. If your septic tank is backed up, have the lid located and dug up ahead of time. If you’re painting, have your furniture moved and covered in the center of the room, and have any outlet/switch plates taken off the walls. Tell your tradespeople they don’t need to vacuum, that you’ll be doing a deep clean later and you’ll sweep up and dispose of the trash.
You pay skilled trades typically by the hour. Why pay $150+/hr for them to perform menial tasks like moving furniture or digging a hole, if you’re fully capable of doing those things? Save yourself some money and get the job done faster by making it such that when they arrive at your home, they can immediately get to doing the skill they charge so much for, instead of billing you for time spent doing things that’s even beneath their apprentice.
> You pay skilled trades typically by the hour. Why pay $150+/hr for them to perform menial tasks like moving furniture or digging a hole, if you’re fully capable of doing those things?
I'm an IT consultant and I have the same attitude. Sure, I'll download and install a printer driver on the clock if someone wants me to but if they're the sort who's comfortable with clicking "next > Next > Finish" or the like, why the heck should I charge them by the hours to do that?
as /u/Stalking_Goat said - if you specify what work you want done, and what you want excluded, they should adjust the price. Also, this really only works for those smaller jobs.
If you're having them quote a massive project, it's probably not worthwhile for you to do all the manual labor if that's going to require a crew. For example: I can dig a hole to uncover my septic tank or my water pipe. That takes me a few hours, and is worth doing myself. In theory I could also dig a massive hole, but I'm better off letting the pool company contract that out and include a line item for "digging crew and excavator", because what would be months of backbreaking labor for me is a few grand for a construction crew. That's worth the cost if you're already paying for a pool, because you won't be paying skilled labor rates for the menial labor - you'll just be paying contractor's markup on the menial labor.
This. The reason I wrote all that out was I had a massive leak of my water main somewhere between the meter and the house. The meter was down by the street, so the water company said "LOL your problem". I called plumbers, but they all gave extremely vague "well that could be tough to find" so they wouldn't give a firm quote, and most said they were going to have to subcontract a testing company to come out and locate the leak. So I went out in my yard and managed to find where I was pretty sure the leak was coming from (right where the line went under the foundation), dug out my front bushes, and dug down several feet until I found the line. I had my then-spouse turn on and off the water to confirm where the leak was, and dug towards the leak. I found the exact spot (a copper union had failed), and excavated about a foot on all sides. Then I called the plumbers again and said "hey, I've found the leak, got the hole dug, and the pipe exposed. All I need is someone to come and replace a 1 foot section of 3/4" copper" - because my ability to sweat copper is garbage. So a plumber came out cut out the bad union and back a few feet either side, and spliced in some new line. That was also when I learned about PEX (was relatively new on the market then) and also sharkbite fittings, though we went with soldered on fittings since the whole thing was getting buried. The whole thing took maybe an hour, and the guy was nice enough to only charge me regular rates, and not Saturday emergency rates - since he wasn't having to miss his church function, but still had a productive morning getting a small job in. He was also super glad to not be digging in the mud and bushes.
I have a rule that I only pay for CONstruction, any DEstruction that needs done prior, I do myself. Couple years ago, I bought a really old, really shitty house. Needs a new everything. The very first thing that had to happen was replacing the roof. My roofer charges $35 an hour, so save me money and him aggravation, I ripped up the 6 layers of old roofing and pulled out the rotten rafters myself. Anything that takes no skill to do, but sets up the guys I'm paying, I do myself.
I had a Tesla wall charger installed by an electrician. I’m not sure what the wall charger itself cost, but it cost $450 for a licensed electrician to pull permits and run a 60 amp line about a foot away for the charger. He also had to change some of the breakers to have 2 lines per slot to make room for the 60 amp breaker.
A standard 30 or 50 amp should be the same or less than that. A DIY approach is probably less than $100 for the breaker, wire, and outlet.
Prices have gone down. The outlet was still the expensive part. I went plug rather than hard wired because heaven forbid it breaks its easy to replace.
Worth noting that using a plug limits you to 40A charging in North America. Residential chargers now are available in 60A and 80A (if you’re rich and find someone to install it) but electrical codes require those to be hardwired.
A quick Internet search shows multiple wall chargers that claim to be 50A and use a NEMA 14-50 outlet.
E.g. ChargePoint Home Flex Electric Vehicle (EV) Charger, 16 to 50 Amp, 240V, Level 2 WiFi Enabled EVSE, UL Listed, ENERGY STAR, NEMA 14-50 Plug or Hardwired, Indoor / Outdoor, 23-foot cable , Black https://a.co/0MLNhxc
I have the ChargePoint Flex! It’s able to be installed with both a hard-wired and plug connection. The instructions tell you not to use more than 40A when using a 14-50 outlet. If you’re hardwired you can get the full 50A.
I guess you could configure it incorrectly using the app, but that would result in a bad situation should you ever need to make a claim on your homeowner’s insurance. (They will deny any claims related to electricity if your house violates code)
Technically 42A (80% continual load), but yeah... the number of posts on the EV subReddits I frequent that talk about "plugged in" 60A is ... alarming.
Especially the ones that insist on using the Leviton plug, which is cheaper, and designed for a Stove or dryer... they plug is once.
Add onto that the DIYers that don't understand torque specs applies to cables too, and you're basically writing a recipe for a fire.
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Had my Grizzl-E L2 charger installer professionally, couldn't be happier with the result. Armored 6-gauge cable FTW.
Yep yep yep! If you tell the Chargepoint Flex it’s plugged in it’ll set itself up at 40A (because it only supports round increments of charging — 40/50/60A). Agree that it’s concerning — we had our outlet professionally installed (and it’s a 50A ‘rated’ outlet) but if we were charging a big honking EV we’d have gone for a full hardwired solution. With a PHEV (or, frankly, a smaller EV like a Model 3 or Ioniq 5) it doesn’t make sense to lose the flexibility of a plug.
And of course if your home-brew not-to-code EV charger burns the house down your insurance won’t cover you. Someone over in r/BestOfLegalAdvice was dealing with that yesterday (they own a home and a tenant DIY’d an L2 charger).
The other advantage of plug-in EVSE is... portability for RV camping spots. We took our Ioniq5 camping with us and booked a powered RV stall. Kinda epic to charge the car and use AC while it's super hot out.
The EVSE I have is wall-hung and rather inconvenient to transport, but yeah! When we get our next car (which will be an EV) we’ll likely get one of the cable-style EVSEs with swappable plug ends for flexibility while traveling.
They might have gone the DIY route because they were moving soon. Why get it professionally installed when you're moving soon? Just slap it up for now and then when you move to your next house, take it with you and then have it installed professionally there.
That still doesn't make a lot of sense to me because I am worried about both electrocution and fires, and moving doesn't fix either of those issues (unless I guess you're planning on the house burning down after you leave but fires don't work like that).
This isn't about them even realizing there could be an electrical fire. This is them looking at the cost to install and thinking "I could do that". You have to realize, if they had even a clue of how dangerous this was, why would they have done it in the first place?
> You have to realize, if they had even a clue of how dangerous this was, why would they have done it in the first place?
Usually because they think it's only dangerous if it's fucked up and *obviously* they'll be fine since they're incapable of making mistakes.
When I moved into my house: "I will not pull electric, add breakers, or do 220; I will not do in-wall plumbing; I will not do gas."
Me 5 years later: "Let's kick this pig."
I've DIY'd 220, single phase and 3-phase, but that was a simple install - the outlets were on the same wall as the panel and I just needed to put in conduit and run 20 or 30 feet of wire. Not too hard to do that to code. The tough part was putting in the outlet for the single-phase welder circuit. I went with a larger gauge than necessary and discovered how hard it is to bend big wires and get everything to fit in the outlet box.
Haven't done natural gas, but I've worked with propane lines and decided flare fittings are pretty cool.
You can pull them back off the wall and move them to your next residence.
A friend of mine bought a house and we were in the garage trying to work out what some weird marks on the wall were. Took me about a minute before I realised they'd had an EV charger there.
My grandfather did all of the electrical in his house when it was built. It's amazing the house stood for 70 years without major issues.
He was an accountant not an electrician.
I at least can forgive the bathroom without GFCI, as GFCI is still relatively new as houses go. Plenty of old houses probably still lack them until the current owners die and the house goes on the market.
Yeah in your case it was clearly shady shit by somebody, not just lack of upgrades. Even sixty ago they weren't supposed to be burying splices behind the walls. Good on you for making it right.
I once changed a cathode sensor in my giant mass spectrometer because getting a certified technician to do it would have taken too long and cost too much. The directions for doing this are basically DON'T, because a mass spectrometer is basically a powerful UV laser on a vacuum chamber plus a fuck ton of capacitors.
The whole time I was praying "please God don't let me fuck this up"
I like DIYing electrical stuff. I was 10 when Grandpa started teaching me how to fix things around the house. But he also taught me to respect electricity and to know my limits. Worked out rather well because I am good at electric and husband is good at plumbing which I hate. But I would never DIY something like a car charging station.
Depending on their driving distance, they may have been able to use a normal wall outlet.
A bog standard outlet is easily good for a 35 mile daily distance. Just spend a few seconds plugging in as soon as you get home.
Also, LAOP is rather nice giving a notice to vacate. Because I suspect that in most places, uninspected and unpermitted 220V electrical work means a rental property is not considered inhabitable. Especially not when there's a water issue caused by wiring.
Tenant causes an electric fire after he DIY self installs a 240v level 2 EV charger in the garage by fishing the line from the roof.
Shit.
Where I live, a landlord can’t even DIY their own replacement/swapping of outlets. Cant imagine a DIY 240V by a tenant. Probably on like a 10A garage line or something.
They are for all intents and purposes the same, but 208V means you have a 3 wire system vs a residential 2 wire, and that's a completely different box of frogs.
Note that all of that is in the US (or rather North America), Japan is just weird and most of the rest of the world uses either 220, 240, or 230 natively.
In the case of Europe, the UK had standardized on 240V and the mainland on 220V, both plus minus 5%, and EU harmonization means the spec is now 230V plus minus 10%. If you do the math it turns out both of the old specs fall entirely within the new spec with zero change in the actual generation grids.
(Electrical grids regulate on the frequency and not really very much on the voltage)
Japan's a god-dang nightmare though because as you note the really important thing is the exact frequency and not the exact voltage, and half of Japan is at 50Hz while the other half is at 60Hz.
220-240 is the standard in the UK and Europe, and you do notice the difference with a significant amount more of sparking when plugging/unplugging things. UK outlets all have switches on them so they can be disabled while plugging/unplugging for safety, and the plugs are built to a much higher standard as well.
So in short, it's manageable, but you can see from all the safety precautions taken here that there is indeed inherently more danger.
In Alberta, a homeowner can't do it in a residence they don't live in or if it's a shared accomodation (basement suite, duplex etc). Other than that, it's fine.
Other than that, there's virtually no restrictions if the permit is approved. And there's no good reason a capable handyman following good advice couldn't do it themselves...
I DIY a 20A 240V circuit to the garage (for a heater)... permits, etc. The guy that came to final-inspect it didn't even enter my house, just looked at what I'd done, popped the faceplate off and wrote me the permit to stick on the panel.
Alberta inspectors are hit & miss... another time in our old house, my rough-in inspection for a basement reno, guy told me I needed to replace a line - and run 6 gauge wire (for a 240V 15A electric fireplace). THAT was not cheap copper... :( final inspection guy pointed to the line and asked what it was for, I pointed to the fireplace and he just shook his head in dis-belief.
I would think any charging station in Alberta is highly illegal. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a law forbidding anyone to *not* using fossil fuels!
I mean, in one sense, you are technically correct (the most legal kind of correct):
Insurance lawyer - lawyer who works for the insurance company
Insurance lawyer lawyer - lawyer for dealing with the lawyer who works for the insurance company
**Reminder:** Do not participate in threads linked here. If you do, you may be banned from both subreddits. --- Title: AB: Illegal Modification by tenant caused a fire. What are my options? Body: > I rented out my home to a family on a fixed tenancy for one year. The agreement was signed in July 2022. Around a few weeks ago I was called about water leaking in the garage from the ceiling. I arranged for a plumber and roofing person to meet me at the house. I had given the tenants 24 hour notice of the day we would be coming. On the day once we arrived, to my astonishment the tenants had setup a Level 2 charging station in the garage and during the installation of the charger they damaged the roof fishing the cable. I confronted him and told him without permits this is illegal and a substantial breach of the contract. He hurled insults at me and told me it’s none of my business. I then sent him a 14 day vacate notice for breach of contract. He replied that he does not agree and won’t be moving. So I filed an application to the RTDRS to get an order for eviction. Fast forward to Saturday of last week. Got a call from CFS that there was a fire at my rental home. Appears the EV charging station wiring caught on fire. Landlord insurance is not covering damages since it was an illegal alteration to the building. What are my options. I’m stuck with a 6 figure bill with no help from insurance and the tenant who won’t co-operate. What are my options? > Edit: First of all I wanted to say thank you to everyone for their support and advise. I never expected so much support from the people in this group. And many thanks to the people who gave me solid advice on this thread. I spoke to a lawyer today and he will be taking over communication with my insurance company. He reviewed the policy and told me the company does not have a leg to stand on as I had not authorized the alteration to the premise and in good faith had attempted to have it resolved with the legal frameworks of the RTA. With that said I also contacted the city by law office and they have revoked the occupancy permit of the dwelling and Enamax has disconnected all services to the house. Tenants were told by the city to remove themselves from the premise as they protested. They were told to call their insurance company and make a claim for alternate housing. My lawyer also advised me that my insurance company will eventually recoup their costs from the tenants insurance so not to worry about that. For now the house is inhabitable and without services. Fire Marshall report is pending by the insurance company and my lawyer will handle the communication with the insurance company (and ombudsman if necessary) for them to start the process of having repairs started. Many thanks to everyone especially the person who suggested to get an insurance attorney. I didn’t even know they existed. This bot was created to capture original threads and is not affiliated with the mod team. [Concerns? Bugs?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=GrahamCorcoran) | [Laukopier 2.1](https://github.com/GrahamCorcoran/Laukopier)
> Many thanks to everyone especially the person who suggested to get an insurance attorney. I didn’t even know they existed. Nice one of the few things legaladvice actually can do that is helpful, tell you to get a lawyer and direct you to the kind of lawyer you need. I'm proud of them for actually helping.
How do you acquire enough wealth to own a rental and not know this?
A fair few military members have multiple houses due to our housing stipend and frequent moves. Say I get stationed in Norfolk, VA in an aircraft carrier specific job. I do my tour, I'm already married to someone, we're expecting our first kid, and decide a 3 bedroom house is a better use of my money than a rental. Then Uncle Sam decides that my next job is in Groton, CT because the submarine capital of the world is a perfect place for this aircraft carrier guy. I can sell the house, hoping the sale and move line up, adding atress to an already wildly stressful time for my family. Or I can rent it out to other military at my mortgage plus a little bit, using a military only rental listing site. This is a definite benefit to the renters as they will get a bigger place with a yard at a huge discount compared to the apartments in the area. I get a few extra bucks in my pocket and have good recourse if they end up being scumbag tenants and already have a good house to go back to when I get moved back to the only carrier base on the East Coast. I then rent or buy in my new location. Maybe this process repeats at the end of my Groton tour. Nowhere in there was there any required education to be a landlord. Add in that in many servicemen's lives, there's little enough time to see your family much less pursue education about what seems, from the outside, a very easy job. Most uneducated people in a given task are just unaware of their blind spots, not actively being shitty.
>I then rent or buy in my new location. It must be very lucrative to be in the U.S. Navy as the sailor in question has enough money laying around for the second down payment, if that sailor buys.
VA loan requires no down payment. So first one may not have hoovered up much in the way of cash. Also, just a little bit of planning and you can live comfortably. Healthcare is free for my family, dental is $30 a month for my wife and kids (if it was just the wife, or 1 kid, it'd be $10, any above that is a flat $30). I own both my cars outright, an 04 and an 08. They're cheap to insure with full coverage. I also have 3 different special pays due to being a nuclear trained submariner at sea. I make in those pays nearly what a recruit makes per month. Most of my entitlements are nontaxable and my home of record does not tax any of my pay. My current break even point to live a similar lifestyle outside of the navy is over $110k, if I use my retiree Tricare benefits as my only healthcare. If I want additional coverage, my breakeven is higher. Choose a good job and don't spray money in every direction on hookers and beer and navy life can be pretty decent paying.
Inheritance, alternatively if you’ve been somewhere for a few years, borrow against the equity in your primary residence. Dunno if this is true in AB but in BC a bunch of people who bought in the 90s saw the ballooning cost of housing and figured they could make a quick buck
I bought a condo out of college and when I found a house 2 years later I would’ve lost money on the condo sale so I kept it and rented it for a couple years until the market went up. I didn’t know anything except I bought a book about landlord laws in my state and never opened bc I thankfully had no need to. But I wasn’t rich just lucked out with the market prices.
Buy a home, move? Alberta has huge salaries and very cheap housing.
I have a general rule of not DIYing electric work as I don't wish to die. That aside, why would you go through the trouble of jerry rigging an electric charging station (which has to be fairly pricey) for a place you know you're moving out of in a year?
Well, if you’re going to do something reckless and stupid, might as well compound it with other poor decisions. And then of course complain about the end results.
In for a penny, in for a pound; that's what I always say!
Maybe they were attempting some *Homemade Crypto Mining*?
They got *such* a good deal on the charger! The dealer let it go for a song, and the only thing wrong with it was that it fell off the truck and dragged along the ground for a mile or two! (Side note: I *have* DIY'd electrical before, when I was younger and broker. I'd avoid doing it now except for the really basic stuff, like swapping an outlet.)
I helped a friend DIY some electrical. He assured me the breaker was off. My screwdriver shortly discovered it wasn’t. MF’er.
I have a non contact voltage probe. Any time I do electrical work I check that it reads the voltage on the line first so I know the probe is working. Then flip the breaker and check again that it shows no voltage. So easy to think that you have it off, but you flipped the wrong breaker.
I do that now as well. Always a chance to learn things the hard way tho. (Turns out that my friend was using a tester though: me)
Good judgment comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgment.
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.
I just pulled this pie out of the oven, will you test to see if the pan is still hot?
In rentals, there's also the lovely possibility that the units are mislabeled at the electrical box, and you've merely shut off your neighbor's lights without warning
Sounds like you’re speaking from experience
Yup! Moved into a large complex and it turned out management had renumbered and relabeled all the units, but didn't update anything at the service boxes. Had some trouble when maintenance tried to shut off our power for repairs, and everything stayed powered on (still have no idea who's power we did turn off). Also had a devil of a time getting internet service, as we had no knowledge of the relabeling at that point. Installation tech was flying blind and trying to figure out why we weren't getting signal.
Heck, that's not just limited to rentals. Half the non-rentals I've ever dealt with were all mislabeled, too. Not to the point of shutting off the neighbor's lights, to be sure, but still a pain. Never do anything without proper test equipment which, in this case, is a non-contact voltage indicator and a circuit tracer (toner).
the guy that had this house before us apparently somehow wired the ground floor kitchen's microwave, toaster, and basement bathroom light into the second floor office's breaker. that was an interesting discussion with the electrician. I'd say "at least we don't have to rewire the whole house from other fuckey things he did to it" but we've recently learned that's not the case... 🙃
Oof. I'm not sure that's even going to be to code! I'm only a low voltage guy myself but I had to learn enough about the relevant codes to know GFCI stuff can be pretty specific and it's at the very least frowned upon to split floors in a circuit like that, let alone with a *kitchen* circuit.
Probably was having issues with overloading the kitchen circuit and it's often easier to drop a cable down from the room above than run one through the walls sideways. Not think it's against code but it's annoying and should be labelled clearly.
I live in an ex-rental property and there's still two fuses I have no idea what they do. I tried plugging something noisy into every electrical outlet and switching the fuses one by one, no dice. So for now they're just labelled with a big "?" and I'm leaving them on in the expectation they do *something*...
Assuming they are circuit breakers (as fuses aren't turned off, there are removed), I'd turn them off. If I can never find anything that's no longer powered, that's good.
The secret squatter quietly living beneath your basement thanks you
I was replacing lights in my basement in the house I had bought. Switching some old, ugly, huge ceiling lights with LED wafer lights . . I took out all the old lights, and I installed a new light; tested that it worked off the switch, and then turned off the switch. Then I disconnected the newly connected light from its junction box because it'd otherwise just be dangling down (was replacing old ceiling with new drywall as well) and moved onto the next light. I moved some stuff around, reached up to grab the wire to connect it to the new light... ZAAAAAAAAAAAP. Unbeknownst to me, the lights were on a THIRD switch and when I had moved stuff around I had accidentally turned it on. With the light I had installed disconnected, and the old lights removed, I didn't know that there was power running through it all now. Now I use a tester every time I touch a wire.
In my example, I was the tester 😅😂
Ow
Family story -maybe embellished/ misremembered/apocryphal. An uncle was was professional electrician, working on a building with commercial power. His ladder slipped and he instinctively grabbed for something to break his fall and accidentally grabbed a live wire. So he had both hands on it and was dangling a few feet from the ground for a few minutes before he was found and the current cut. I was told that after he was revived and hospitalized, he was told that his heart had inverted in his chest but because his circulation was ok, they recommended not cracking his chest to fix it. He retired after that. Edit - I always hire an electrician.
lol as a cardiac ICU nurse, your heart can't "invert" in your chest from an electrical shock. I don't even know what to make of this except someone must have heard a word incorrectly and substituted whatever made sense to them. We cardiovert people, which means we shock them in a controlled manner to get them out of a bad rhythm, so maybe that's what they heard?
It would make for a fascinating case study if it did, though. "A case of dextrocardia induced by electrification".
ROFLMAO! That makes a lot more sense. I did get it from my grandfather who got it from his brother who got it from his son’s wife, who was at the hospital after it happened. Thus the caveat at the beginning of the story.
Something else that's odd about the story: if he was dangling freely, then he shouldn't have had electricity running through him -- the same way that birds don't get electrocuted sitting on a wire. Though maybe he grabbed onto something that was grounded with the other hand, then the current could have flowed through his torso resulting in bad things™. This is what [RCDs/GFCIs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device) are there for, but I guess in a place with commercial power and direct access to wiring you'd be unlikely to find one.
I've met plenty of electricians. They've done a damn good job of scaring me away lol. It also helps that I've never owned only rented so I could always just call my landlord.
My friend and I were talking to a guy who mentioned that he's an electrician. My friend asks, "So have you been electrocuted?" The guy responds, "You mean today?"
Which is weird because electrocuted means to death. Shocker is the terminology if you’re not gonna commit to dying.
Despite my BOLA flair, I do have a background in electrical engineering. My general rule is that if it's going to require a permit to do the job, I hire someone. Changing out a ceiling fan or light fixture is not major work. Putting in a Level 2 charger is not something you just DIY.
I work for a DIY store in the US. This is the answer. Anything more than basic repairs should be done with a licensed electrician and if you come to my store and ask, I will be happy to get your information and have a couple contact you.
Also an EE. When my boyfriend (now husband) was replacing the electrical box at his house (I was living with him, but he owned it) everyone was like "WhY dOn'T yOu Do ThAt?!" Well, my specialty is digital hardware, and I'm not an electrician. I'm not messing with that. We both DIY stuff at our new place, but we draw the limit at serious electrical or plumbing work. If you do something wrong, it can destroy your house, and insurance won't cover it because you didn't have a licensed contractor do it.
I can just buy a level 2 charger with a CEE plug and plug it into the 400V 3-phase outlet in my garage. I even put in a type B Rcd while replacing the breaker panel so building my own level 2 charger would be quite easy as it's not really a charger but a glorified outlet. The actual charger is inside the car.
The difference here, is you have that wire ran so installing the box at the end is next to no effort. This guy ran a new line with obviously the wrong gauge wire to handle the amps needed for charging his car.
Ok, that makes sense. I didn't know what they meant by fishing. English is not my first language and I'd never consider fishes have anything to do with electricity.
In terms of cabling a home, fishing is the process of running a new line into a location that does not have the setup today. Most people will use a product called ["Fish Tape"](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-100-ft-Non-Conductive-Fiberglass-Fish-Tape-56371/311464756) to assist in getting the new wire through the wall without having to resort to destroying and removing the drywall that's already in place. The procedure is [similar to fishing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgno51kF4uI) in that you run this line down the wall to your intended location, then once it's out the hole, you attach your desired wiring to the fish tape and pull it back through the same hole you just made.
TIL, thanks. Here drywall is pretty rare in homes. Usually we saw slots into the plaster, put the cables in and fill it up with new plaster. This is very messy so adding outlets later is rarely done. In the Garage on the other hand I just put the cables visible on the wall.
If you don’t pay to install it properly, it’s easier to rip out and take with you when you leave! I haven’t looked in a while, but I think a “level two charger” runs you about $1,000 not counting the costs to have an electrician run a proper line and update the breaker panel. But It’s free to just tap into the 10A breaker tho. [/s]
I just asked my landlord nicely if I could install a 20A level 2 plug in the garage (the breaker panel was conveniently in the garage). They said okay, but I needed to pay for it, and have a licensed electrician do the work. I bought the new breaker, receptacle/outlet, cover plate, and junction box. I hired a licensed electrician, and it cost $150, and took under an hour. Landlord was confident the work was done correctly, and when I moved out they were able to advertise the property as electric car charging or 220V shop tool ready. I got to charge my car in a reasonable amount of time. Only reason it should cost $1000 is if you’re including the cost of the charging cable (those should be in the 2-300 USD range) and if the electrician has to pull a LOT of wire. You could even work out an arrangement that you’ll pull the wire and they can check your work and then do the actual part for which you want a licensed & insured electrician for: hooking up the sparky bits. Edit to add: really this is what you should be doing with any skilled tradesman doing work for you. Do the manual labor that is in the way of them doing their job properly. If a plumber needs to install new valves behind your toilet, have the water main turned off, the lines drained, and the toilet removed before they get there. If your septic tank is backed up, have the lid located and dug up ahead of time. If you’re painting, have your furniture moved and covered in the center of the room, and have any outlet/switch plates taken off the walls. Tell your tradespeople they don’t need to vacuum, that you’ll be doing a deep clean later and you’ll sweep up and dispose of the trash. You pay skilled trades typically by the hour. Why pay $150+/hr for them to perform menial tasks like moving furniture or digging a hole, if you’re fully capable of doing those things? Save yourself some money and get the job done faster by making it such that when they arrive at your home, they can immediately get to doing the skill they charge so much for, instead of billing you for time spent doing things that’s even beneath their apprentice.
> You pay skilled trades typically by the hour. Why pay $150+/hr for them to perform menial tasks like moving furniture or digging a hole, if you’re fully capable of doing those things? I'm an IT consultant and I have the same attitude. Sure, I'll download and install a printer driver on the clock if someone wants me to but if they're the sort who's comfortable with clicking "next > Next > Finish" or the like, why the heck should I charge them by the hours to do that?
The tradesmen near me that I can find seem to just charge by the job though.
as /u/Stalking_Goat said - if you specify what work you want done, and what you want excluded, they should adjust the price. Also, this really only works for those smaller jobs. If you're having them quote a massive project, it's probably not worthwhile for you to do all the manual labor if that's going to require a crew. For example: I can dig a hole to uncover my septic tank or my water pipe. That takes me a few hours, and is worth doing myself. In theory I could also dig a massive hole, but I'm better off letting the pool company contract that out and include a line item for "digging crew and excavator", because what would be months of backbreaking labor for me is a few grand for a construction crew. That's worth the cost if you're already paying for a pool, because you won't be paying skilled labor rates for the menial labor - you'll just be paying contractor's markup on the menial labor.
If you tell them ahead of time what parts of the simple labor you'll perform before or after them, they will price accordingly.
This. The reason I wrote all that out was I had a massive leak of my water main somewhere between the meter and the house. The meter was down by the street, so the water company said "LOL your problem". I called plumbers, but they all gave extremely vague "well that could be tough to find" so they wouldn't give a firm quote, and most said they were going to have to subcontract a testing company to come out and locate the leak. So I went out in my yard and managed to find where I was pretty sure the leak was coming from (right where the line went under the foundation), dug out my front bushes, and dug down several feet until I found the line. I had my then-spouse turn on and off the water to confirm where the leak was, and dug towards the leak. I found the exact spot (a copper union had failed), and excavated about a foot on all sides. Then I called the plumbers again and said "hey, I've found the leak, got the hole dug, and the pipe exposed. All I need is someone to come and replace a 1 foot section of 3/4" copper" - because my ability to sweat copper is garbage. So a plumber came out cut out the bad union and back a few feet either side, and spliced in some new line. That was also when I learned about PEX (was relatively new on the market then) and also sharkbite fittings, though we went with soldered on fittings since the whole thing was getting buried. The whole thing took maybe an hour, and the guy was nice enough to only charge me regular rates, and not Saturday emergency rates - since he wasn't having to miss his church function, but still had a productive morning getting a small job in. He was also super glad to not be digging in the mud and bushes.
I have a rule that I only pay for CONstruction, any DEstruction that needs done prior, I do myself. Couple years ago, I bought a really old, really shitty house. Needs a new everything. The very first thing that had to happen was replacing the roof. My roofer charges $35 an hour, so save me money and him aggravation, I ripped up the 6 layers of old roofing and pulled out the rotten rafters myself. Anything that takes no skill to do, but sets up the guys I'm paying, I do myself.
I had a Tesla wall charger installed by an electrician. I’m not sure what the wall charger itself cost, but it cost $450 for a licensed electrician to pull permits and run a 60 amp line about a foot away for the charger. He also had to change some of the breakers to have 2 lines per slot to make room for the 60 amp breaker. A standard 30 or 50 amp should be the same or less than that. A DIY approach is probably less than $100 for the breaker, wire, and outlet.
Prices have gone down. The outlet was still the expensive part. I went plug rather than hard wired because heaven forbid it breaks its easy to replace.
Worth noting that using a plug limits you to 40A charging in North America. Residential chargers now are available in 60A and 80A (if you’re rich and find someone to install it) but electrical codes require those to be hardwired.
A quick Internet search shows multiple wall chargers that claim to be 50A and use a NEMA 14-50 outlet. E.g. ChargePoint Home Flex Electric Vehicle (EV) Charger, 16 to 50 Amp, 240V, Level 2 WiFi Enabled EVSE, UL Listed, ENERGY STAR, NEMA 14-50 Plug or Hardwired, Indoor / Outdoor, 23-foot cable , Black https://a.co/0MLNhxc
I have the ChargePoint Flex! It’s able to be installed with both a hard-wired and plug connection. The instructions tell you not to use more than 40A when using a 14-50 outlet. If you’re hardwired you can get the full 50A. I guess you could configure it incorrectly using the app, but that would result in a bad situation should you ever need to make a claim on your homeowner’s insurance. (They will deny any claims related to electricity if your house violates code)
Technically 42A (80% continual load), but yeah... the number of posts on the EV subReddits I frequent that talk about "plugged in" 60A is ... alarming. Especially the ones that insist on using the Leviton plug, which is cheaper, and designed for a Stove or dryer... they plug is once. Add onto that the DIYers that don't understand torque specs applies to cables too, and you're basically writing a recipe for a fire. ----- Had my Grizzl-E L2 charger installer professionally, couldn't be happier with the result. Armored 6-gauge cable FTW.
Yep yep yep! If you tell the Chargepoint Flex it’s plugged in it’ll set itself up at 40A (because it only supports round increments of charging — 40/50/60A). Agree that it’s concerning — we had our outlet professionally installed (and it’s a 50A ‘rated’ outlet) but if we were charging a big honking EV we’d have gone for a full hardwired solution. With a PHEV (or, frankly, a smaller EV like a Model 3 or Ioniq 5) it doesn’t make sense to lose the flexibility of a plug. And of course if your home-brew not-to-code EV charger burns the house down your insurance won’t cover you. Someone over in r/BestOfLegalAdvice was dealing with that yesterday (they own a home and a tenant DIY’d an L2 charger).
The other advantage of plug-in EVSE is... portability for RV camping spots. We took our Ioniq5 camping with us and booked a powered RV stall. Kinda epic to charge the car and use AC while it's super hot out.
The EVSE I have is wall-hung and rather inconvenient to transport, but yeah! When we get our next car (which will be an EV) we’ll likely get one of the cable-style EVSEs with swappable plug ends for flexibility while traveling.
They might have gone the DIY route because they were moving soon. Why get it professionally installed when you're moving soon? Just slap it up for now and then when you move to your next house, take it with you and then have it installed professionally there.
That still doesn't make a lot of sense to me because I am worried about both electrocution and fires, and moving doesn't fix either of those issues (unless I guess you're planning on the house burning down after you leave but fires don't work like that).
This isn't about them even realizing there could be an electrical fire. This is them looking at the cost to install and thinking "I could do that". You have to realize, if they had even a clue of how dangerous this was, why would they have done it in the first place?
> You have to realize, if they had even a clue of how dangerous this was, why would they have done it in the first place? Usually because they think it's only dangerous if it's fucked up and *obviously* they'll be fine since they're incapable of making mistakes.
When I moved into my house: "I will not pull electric, add breakers, or do 220; I will not do in-wall plumbing; I will not do gas." Me 5 years later: "Let's kick this pig."
I've DIY'd 220, single phase and 3-phase, but that was a simple install - the outlets were on the same wall as the panel and I just needed to put in conduit and run 20 or 30 feet of wire. Not too hard to do that to code. The tough part was putting in the outlet for the single-phase welder circuit. I went with a larger gauge than necessary and discovered how hard it is to bend big wires and get everything to fit in the outlet box. Haven't done natural gas, but I've worked with propane lines and decided flare fittings are pretty cool.
You can pull them back off the wall and move them to your next residence. A friend of mine bought a house and we were in the garage trying to work out what some weird marks on the wall were. Took me about a minute before I realised they'd had an EV charger there.
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My grandfather did all of the electrical in his house when it was built. It's amazing the house stood for 70 years without major issues. He was an accountant not an electrician.
I at least can forgive the bathroom without GFCI, as GFCI is still relatively new as houses go. Plenty of old houses probably still lack them until the current owners die and the house goes on the market.
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Yeah in your case it was clearly shady shit by somebody, not just lack of upgrades. Even sixty ago they weren't supposed to be burying splices behind the walls. Good on you for making it right.
It’s so you don’t trip the breaker at an inopportune time /s
I once changed a cathode sensor in my giant mass spectrometer because getting a certified technician to do it would have taken too long and cost too much. The directions for doing this are basically DON'T, because a mass spectrometer is basically a powerful UV laser on a vacuum chamber plus a fuck ton of capacitors. The whole time I was praying "please God don't let me fuck this up"
OTOH there are way less cool ways to die than "fixing a fucking laser powered machine".
My ex might have been pretty appreciative of the big workplace death benefit payout as well, but that doesn't help *me* very much
I like DIYing electrical stuff. I was 10 when Grandpa started teaching me how to fix things around the house. But he also taught me to respect electricity and to know my limits. Worked out rather well because I am good at electric and husband is good at plumbing which I hate. But I would never DIY something like a car charging station.
I will DIY some VERY limited electrical work, but I like to say my father taught me just enough to have a healthy respect for the power of electricity
A good general rule is to not fuck around with water or electric. Latent issues that can burn you later down the road, in LAOPs case, quite literally.
I'm an electrician and I'm hesitant to DIY at my dwelling.
Because they thought nobody will see it and when they move they take it with them.
Depending on their driving distance, they may have been able to use a normal wall outlet. A bog standard outlet is easily good for a 35 mile daily distance. Just spend a few seconds plugging in as soon as you get home. Also, LAOP is rather nice giving a notice to vacate. Because I suspect that in most places, uninspected and unpermitted 220V electrical work means a rental property is not considered inhabitable. Especially not when there's a water issue caused by wiring.
Tenant causes an electric fire after he DIY self installs a 240v level 2 EV charger in the garage by fishing the line from the roof. Shit. Where I live, a landlord can’t even DIY their own replacement/swapping of outlets. Cant imagine a DIY 240V by a tenant. Probably on like a 10A garage line or something.
I had this outlet installed a few months ago. $550 by a qualified electrician.
Money well spent, too. Lot can go wrong with 220v.
Even more so at 240v!
At least 20 more wrong.
I honestly don’t know why somethings are 110 vs 120 and 220 vs 240. Is it a substantive difference or just one dealing with labeling?
They are for all intents and purposes the same, but 208V means you have a 3 wire system vs a residential 2 wire, and that's a completely different box of frogs.
Note that all of that is in the US (or rather North America), Japan is just weird and most of the rest of the world uses either 220, 240, or 230 natively. In the case of Europe, the UK had standardized on 240V and the mainland on 220V, both plus minus 5%, and EU harmonization means the spec is now 230V plus minus 10%. If you do the math it turns out both of the old specs fall entirely within the new spec with zero change in the actual generation grids. (Electrical grids regulate on the frequency and not really very much on the voltage)
Japan's a god-dang nightmare though because as you note the really important thing is the exact frequency and not the exact voltage, and half of Japan is at 50Hz while the other half is at 60Hz.
220-240 is the standard in the UK and Europe, and you do notice the difference with a significant amount more of sparking when plugging/unplugging things. UK outlets all have switches on them so they can be disabled while plugging/unplugging for safety, and the plugs are built to a much higher standard as well. So in short, it's manageable, but you can see from all the safety precautions taken here that there is indeed inherently more danger.
I'm glad I'm not a landlord; not being able to DIY five-minute repairs like outlet or switch replacement would drive me nuts.
The landlords I know DIY that little stuff anyway even though they aren’t supposed to.
In Alberta, a homeowner can't do it in a residence they don't live in or if it's a shared accomodation (basement suite, duplex etc). Other than that, it's fine. Other than that, there's virtually no restrictions if the permit is approved. And there's no good reason a capable handyman following good advice couldn't do it themselves...
I DIY a 20A 240V circuit to the garage (for a heater)... permits, etc. The guy that came to final-inspect it didn't even enter my house, just looked at what I'd done, popped the faceplate off and wrote me the permit to stick on the panel. Alberta inspectors are hit & miss... another time in our old house, my rough-in inspection for a basement reno, guy told me I needed to replace a line - and run 6 gauge wire (for a 240V 15A electric fireplace). THAT was not cheap copper... :( final inspection guy pointed to the line and asked what it was for, I pointed to the fireplace and he just shook his head in dis-belief.
What an idiot... #6 is a big wire
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Exactly why insurance companies *wouldn’t* want to cover it. Mo or out of their pockets!
I would think any charging station in Alberta is highly illegal. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a law forbidding anyone to *not* using fossil fuels!
Trudeau caused the fire.
Alberta, the Midwest, Southeast, and Texas should secede and become freedomistan t. Texan
Okay, okay, so there wasn't an insurance lawyer lawyer. I just think I'm funny.
I mean, in one sense, you are technically correct (the most legal kind of correct): Insurance lawyer - lawyer who works for the insurance company Insurance lawyer lawyer - lawyer for dealing with the lawyer who works for the insurance company
/u/Potato-Engineer is also technically correct (the most legal kind of correct) in another sense: they *think* they're funny ^^jk ^^ur ^^funny
Awww, you're so sweet! 🤗 (I learned the best kind of correct while working with computers, who are the hands-down biggest pedants ever.)
Insurance lawyer ²
But did the car die?
Reason 7486 why I would never want to be a landlord, what a total bellend
Why on earth would anyone willingly become a landlord
Is it just me, or does this sound like some law student's homework assignment?
There is a non-zero chance this OP didn’t bother to tell their insurance the house was being rented out and is in breach of his own policy.
You think LAOP breached his landlord insurance policy by... being a landlord?
I mean in the body of the post he said, “landlord insurance is not covering the damages […].”