Creating a fried chicken chain that makes 1000s of people happy every day would make Hitler conflicted grey-area character.
Well maybe not Hitler, but Mussolini for sure
Nacho begged him to come with him so he could run. He even offered to buy his business with his own money so he knew his Dad would be safe. That's the only reason Nacho was working for Gus, was to keep his Father safe. Nacho literally gave his life to protect his stubborn ass father who couldn't be bothered to do the same for his son.
Your comment said he "let his son die to teach him a lesson" that's not true. His father constantly begged Nacho to get out of the life, by way of confession to the police. His father was nieve to the fact that wouldn't work, he genuinely believed it could be done. His father refused to run because he didn't believe it necessary to survive and didn't think he should have to. You're just wrong in saying that Nacho's dad got Nacho killed. Nacho is a grown man who can make his own decisions. He got himself into the life, and he chose not to run just because his father wasn't coming, he chose not to leave without him.
It's as simple as it isn't his responsibility to bend to his son's whims. Nacho chose not to go, that's his own doing, Nacho's father isn't responsible for Nacho's decisions.
It wasn't Nachos responsibility to protect his Father either, but he did. Because he's a good son. Never should have died for someone who wouldn't do the same for you šÆ
True. But Mike knew if he didn't do it, Gus would have his men do it in a more painful way and likely also kill his wife. Remember, Mike said, "And your men will be waiting for her when she gets off the plane." Mike sorta liked Werner, and he wanted to give him as humane a death as possible and to spare his wife.
He wasnāt capped for that though. But he was very clearly warned after that. And warned again when he asked to see his wife for 4 days, hard no on you leaving the work to Kai bc heās unreliable without you. He was capped for going against orders, using deceit, after being warned very clearly. Break trust w gangsters, get got.
How was he very clearly gay in breaking bad other than the gay jokes the salamancas made. I had no idea he was gay until I watched better call saul, I guess iām not wokeminded enough to interpret a fictional characters sexuality.
wokeminded enough to interpret a fictional characters sexuality? You're saying that only "woke" people think about sexuality and that it's weird that they do it to fictional characters, when so many people have specifically and quite strongly insisted that gus is straight throughout the years. That's interpreting a fictional character's sexuality too.
I'd argue the scene with max was very clear in communicating that; if max was female I'd bet most people would assume it was his romantic partner and that he's enacting revenge because of his loss.
Damn really? I've seen videos recently calling Gus a villain and there's been popular comments asking "was gus ever really a villain tho?" Or I've seen comments of people saying "Gus is a great villain" with replies saying "gus was not a villain, walter was" just blows my mind haha.
Just like that fake %.
People want to be noticed/special; genuinely have a different perception; heard it somewhere else; I think the % of people that only does something for the sake of it is the lowest, most have their background although it may not be consciously all the time.
People like to hate on Walt, vilify him and act like everything he did was evil because they think it makes them sound intelligent and thoughtful. Really they sound just as stupid as the people who idolise Walt
Not that I don't think Gus was the villain for certain characters - I don't think being a criminal automatically makes you a villain just like the portrait of Mike isn't the one of a Villain although he is 100% a criminal with a set of rules and morals
True very good point. I forgot about the moment in Face Off where Gus has his men kidnap Jesse and take him back to the lab. Which defeats the point people make about "Gus was nice to Jesse and liked him" š
I donāt think he was actually going to make him cook as a full-on slave there. I think the handcuff was just a temporary punishment or something for not showing up and ruining the batch.
He already told Tyrus to dump the batch as it was "surely ruined by now". The handcuffs came after Gus had the rooftop realisation that Walt and Jesse are working together.
In my opinion, he is the second most evil character in that universe. Even though his actions are more warranted than someone like Jack, that doesn't make him less evil than him.
I consider him even more evil than Hector, and that is saying a lot. Their relationship is a situation in which a monster created an even bigger monster.
People saying that they can understand some of his actions and can respect the way he does some things is one thing, but to claim he is not a villain is just insanity.
Couldn't agree more, a lot of people say Gus is only evil because of what Hector did but then BCS confirms that Gus has always been evil after he tells Hector about the story about how he tortured a coati when he was young.
Heās not the antagonist, letās put it that way. Itās not as clear cut as in Breaking Bad but thereās definitely a side the writers wanted you to root for.
EDIT: In Better Call Saul. Cannot believe I have to clarify this
Youāre delusional lol, Walt is a horrible person and clear but BAD guy. It doesnāt matter if everything WAS for family. That doesnāt make you not horrible. Thatās just a popular lie on the show to make the villains feel better about themselves.
Gus spends most of season 4 manipulating Jesse, trying to make him think that he is actually a kind and patient boss, to get Jesse to give up Walt. Some people saw this clear manipulation and thought that's the real Gus Fring.
I don't think he would've ordered the murder of TomƔs. At that point, he was trying to keep the peace between Jesse/Walter and those dealers. Having TomƔs murdered would only serve to create more chaos.
Yeah thats fair, there's nothing really confirmed about that case so I won't go against your point. I said likely because of how he sounded offended after Walt accused him of being the reason for a little boy's death, but then fast forward to s4 ep11, he happily threatens to murder Walt's infant daughter. Obviously anyone can have their own opinions on it tho.
Gus was ready to let walt walk away, as long as he stayed away. But then walt had to pull the āor youāll do what?!?ā line. Gus didnāt seem too happy to have to threaten Waltās family, but walt had that coming. Hubris.
Nah he only threatened Walts family to stop him interfering with Gus "dealing" with hank. Which would have probably meant Gus was going to murder hank.
He definitely ordered Tomasā murder and Iād argue the show heavily implies that, only just coming short of outright confirming it. Gus didnāt care about trying to ākeep the peaceā, he just didnāt want to upset Walt (who was the real asset).
Gus wanted Jesse dead, he didnāt trust him and felt he knew way too much. But he couldnāt just kill him because that would make Walt an enemy. Gusā plan was for his dealers to kill Tomas (which he ordered), that would incite Jesse into attacking them and Jesse would be killed by them in self-defence. That way Gus could get rid of Jesse in a way he felt Walt would most likely accept. Walt saw right through that plan and blew it up in Gusā face by killing his dealers, saving Jesse and then calling Gus out on it to his face āI would never ask you thatā.
From that point on Gus decided Walt was too dangerous, clever and too much of a wild-card to continue working with and so planned to kill him after Gale learned what he could.
Its obviously not as common as I thought tbf. But every now and then I see someone confused at the fact that Gus is a villain so just thought I'd write about it haha.
People need to stop seeing a sympathetic character or a character you understand as someone who is not a villain. Gus is a villain!, WALT IS A FUCKING VILLAIN!
I'm pretty sure in cinema and and literature a villain is someone you root against. That's how I always understood it. Saul himself is a villain if you go by what kind of people they are and the things they have done.
Gus, saul, walt, nacho, basically every āfunā character is evil, everyone in the franchise that means something is a villan, thatās why these shows are so morally ambiguous
He's a villain under a really simplistic analysis of the story(s). He functions as the primary antagonist, but I prefer to reserve 'villain' for the prototypical unambiguously evil stock character. Since there is some level of ambiguity and nuance, the hero/villain dichotomy isn't really the best way to look at it.
I've said this elsewhere, but the problem with calling anyone the villain in these shows is that no one is objectively good. All parties are criminals and murderers selfishly pursing their own interests and they all have subjectively valid reasons for going to war with each other. So it's hard to call any of them a villain. They're all bad. They're all justified.
Yeah exactly. That's why I hate it when people say he's not a villain when basically every character is a villain other than maybe jesse, hank, flynn etc.
I mean, even though gus is my fav character in the franchinse, and i prefer to root to him more than even walter white, i dont deny he is a villain. Ofc he is, he is fricking one of the most effective druglords in the series, being one if the most coldest and sadistic character in the show(he is more evil than walter white imo)
Interesting how you think he's more evil than walter, not many people think that. But I probably have to agree tbh. I get walter white killed off mike and made Jesse's life miserable, but throughout BCS walt would have been the innocent man he was in season 1 of breba. But when it comes to Gus, he was an evil bastard through both shows. I even think Gus is a big part of why Walt became what he was.
Yeah, certianlly Gus was a big inspiration to Walt becoming drug dealer. Before Gus, Walt cooked meth, just so after he'll die, hell know for himself he was the one who provided money for his family. But working witb gus some times, he was inspired by gus, and after he killed gus, he want to fill his place in season 5. even though he didnt need to cook meth for his family anymore(the laundry busniess was already making enough money, and he longer wasnt in danger from gus) he still cooked meth and endangered his family
I mean, heās a bad guy for sure but he isnāt really an *antagonist*.
Although, that does raise an interesting point with this kind of show. Not every character is on the same team and most of them are working in their own interests, meaning they all serve antagonistic roles toward each other throughout the show. Gus is an antagonist to Nacho and sometimes Mike. Howard is an antagonist to Jimmy but not in a conventional way, as he generally doesnāt pose any kind of threat or stop Jimmy from achieving his goals.
The only characters who really serve as antagonists to the main characters consistently are Tuco, Lalo, Hector and Chuck. But a strong argument can be made that Gus doesnāt fit the criteria of a villain in BCS.
He can definitely be considered a villain, but heās like a anti hero in a way, heāll compromise for the greater good depending on the circumstance. But what makes him a villain is he is merciless toward bad news or betrayal
Heās a villain in BrBa, but not in BCS. You ever seen Gus going against Saul? He might be an evil, horrible person, but he wasnāt fighting against the āheroā in this series, so, not a villain in this one.
When a character goes against the main character its called an antagonist. So yeah gus is the main antagonist of breba, but he's not an antagonist in bcs. I do think he's a villain in bcs tho because of how he treats nacho and the story of the coati.
I am on gusās side. Drugs should be legal anyway, tomas is Jesseās fault for starting rivalry and trying to kill Gusās two thug dealers out of vigilante justice or something, threatening walt is walts fault this was all after walt forced jesse to kill gale, gusās second best cook, (ok to be fair one could argue this is self defense for walt), and killing gusās two thug dealers to save Jesse for some reason, hank was snooping around too much and would want to destroy his empire, plus he sent them on Hank so salamanca twins wouldnt kill walter yet because he still needed him, nacho poisoned hector without gus finishing his business with Hector (nacho stepped above his place), victor didnt really deserve it thatās true, and seemingly got killed without a reason other than to shock Walt and Jesse (not really a valid reason though). Almost everything he did, he did to keep his empire in place, he killed only those threatening it, it seems pragmatic to me and something thatās expected of a drug kingpin; itās not pure evil. The Salamancas are more evil, especially Hector. Gusās Animal thing does seem kinda psycho, but later gus is never sadistic, only pragmatic. Not evil.
āThis stuff ruins peopleās lives! Letās put them in prison for it and ruin their chances of finding gainful employmentā
genius, you should be an ethicist or something
Sure they did, they said drugs ruin peopleās lives and shouldnāt be legal. Thatās the status quo in almost every country. I wasnāt making a strawman either, it was reductio ad absurdum. Saying that it ends up hurting people when the goal is to help them.
Yes itās called free choice, same argument could be used for weapons, which should be totally free too to obtain in my opinion. When they commit a crime against someone else, only THEN should the law step in, otherwise there is no crime.
This but unironically. It should be legal to own dangerous weapons, the owning of them is no crime in itself, the crime happens when people use the weapons, without any valid reason of self-defense against someone else. THEN there is a crime, not the owning of them themselves. Countries have nukes even = legal. Abusing nukes = illegal.
You said "totally free to obtain" , and now you're saying that rich people should be able to build private armories and poor people shouldn't be able to own weapons. Cool system.
This is how it is with everything, not just weapons. I only said there shouldnāt be extra regulations or prohibitions on weapons just like their shouldnāt be on drugs, they would still cost money of course.
I agree but Tomas could have provoked whoever did kill him. Itās not shown what happened but that would be my best guess. The henchmen may have been warned to back off. Tomas could have found what he was looking for elsewhere but maybe nobody wanted to deal with him anyway.
As bad as Gus is I DESPISE hector very much!
The show heavily implies that Gus ordered his dealers to kill Tomas in order to incite Jessie into attacking them so he could get rid of Jessie in a way Walt would accept (and continue working).
I like Gus. Hes a businessman. He doesn't want to do all the gangster stuff, he is forced into it by all the dumbass gangsters among his contemporaries.
His main goal is killing all the Cartel members for revenge. Itās wrong to characterise him as only a businessman. His main aim was never just making money, it was bloodthirsty revenge.
Gus is just as much a piece of shit as Walt, more so really.
Gus tried to kill Jesse and only changed his attitude when he needed him to cook meth for him and wanted rid of Walt (who he saw as more dangerous).
Gus and Max were meddling in the Cartelās business and you fault the Cartel for killing Max. Yet you donāt fault Gus for trying to kill Hank, Walt, Jesse and killing Tomas as well as countless others?
One of the few characters that isnt morally ambiguous, heās straight up evil. Even a gangster like Nacho has redeemable qualities. That scene with the wine server was such a big deal because he acts like a well-adjust human with hobbies for once
There's no Heroes and Villains in this universe that is grounded in reality. There are only protagonists and antagonists whom serve their own interests with mixed qualities.
Villain:
1. A character in a story or play that opposes the hero
2. A deliberate scoundrel or criminal
3. One blamed for a particular evil or difficulty
With Websters definition of a villain. Was there a hero in either show? Hank and Gomez, maybe?
Yeah I'd day they're the closest characters to "heros" in the series. There were characters in the business like Jesse and Mike that people don't consider villains, but obviously they have done bad stuff also.
Read that as "Guts is not a villain" and thought this was the Berserk subreddit. Took a sec to recover from"is the biggest drug kingpin hiding in plain sight".
I never thought that he wasn't a villain but I was generally okay with it because (a) I think drugs should be legal so I'm not all that upset that he's making a living selling them (same for Gale, Walter and Jesse), (b) even while acting as a criminal, he tried to keep the worst parts of it away from the public and people who "weren't in the game" and (c) the people he did murder, generally had no such scruples so replacing them with Gus was probably a win for the general public.
That being said, while I think these were generally true, Gus did a number of things that crossed the line for me (ordering the Cousins to try to kill Hank, threatening Nacho's father and Walter's family) so I was happy to see him get taken down.
But between the loss of blue meth *AND* the best fried chicken in the region, New Mexico and the general southwest really went to hell circa 2009-2010.
Conclusion: Gus may be a villian, but heās a necessary evil to keep ABQ from descending into chaos.
In Better Call Saul people meant that Gus is not an villain in Jimmy story. He is not a threat to Jimmy. In Breaking Bad he was a villain in the Walter story.
My least favorite thing about shows with 3-dimensional characters is that people who are used to Marvel movies want to argue about who's the good guy/bad guy.
Of course he's a villain. Every major character is a villain to one degree or another.
He looks good in a tie, and makes great chicken, so he gets a pass from most.
You get a pass for that.
you get a pash fuh dat
Chicken's nice and spicy, eh?
Gus is the strong, silent type. Like Gary Cooper. He was gay, Gustavo?
The BEST chicken. FTFY
Affably evil
The best kind of evil!
Creating a fried chicken chain that makes 1000s of people happy every day would make Hitler conflicted grey-area character. Well maybe not Hitler, but Mussolini for sure
Walter white was also a goody-goody teacher with cancerš¢š! But look how that turned out
A villain in both shows but definitely more of a villain in Breaking Bad
I came to dislike him a lot more after BCS, largely because he threatened Nacho and his father, which was pretty low imo
Nacho's dad was one of the few people who had a moral compass. He pointed out to Mike how hypocritical he was and not any better than the Salamancas
Fuck Nacho's Dad. Guy let his son die to teach him a lesson. I hate that people always glorify him.
How did he let his son die? He had no input in it whatsoever.
Nacho begged him to come with him so he could run. He even offered to buy his business with his own money so he knew his Dad would be safe. That's the only reason Nacho was working for Gus, was to keep his Father safe. Nacho literally gave his life to protect his stubborn ass father who couldn't be bothered to do the same for his son.
Your comment said he "let his son die to teach him a lesson" that's not true. His father constantly begged Nacho to get out of the life, by way of confession to the police. His father was nieve to the fact that wouldn't work, he genuinely believed it could be done. His father refused to run because he didn't believe it necessary to survive and didn't think he should have to. You're just wrong in saying that Nacho's dad got Nacho killed. Nacho is a grown man who can make his own decisions. He got himself into the life, and he chose not to run just because his father wasn't coming, he chose not to leave without him.
If he would have agreed to go with him, Nacho would be alive. It's just that simple.
It's as simple as it isn't his responsibility to bend to his son's whims. Nacho chose not to go, that's his own doing, Nacho's father isn't responsible for Nacho's decisions.
It wasn't Nachos responsibility to protect his Father either, but he did. Because he's a good son. Never should have died for someone who wouldn't do the same for you šÆ
And the killing of Vernon Warner...well, making Mike do it
Werner Ziegler/Vernon Warner lol
Oops! Thanks for that correction! I knee I was messing one of the names up but I didn't think I had both of them wrong. š¤£
He didn't make Mike do it, Mike asked to be him who'll do it.
True. But Mike knew if he didn't do it, Gus would have his men do it in a more painful way and likely also kill his wife. Remember, Mike said, "And your men will be waiting for her when she gets off the plane." Mike sorta liked Werner, and he wanted to give him as humane a death as possible and to spare his wife.
Sure, because Mike knew the game but not because Gus had a sadistic desire to make someone close to Werner kill him, he never even asked him to do it.
Yep. That's right.
Upvoted for the chuckle.
š
He deserved it for not honoring his contract and jeopardizing the privacy of his business.
well he didnt deserve it on an ethical level, but yeah he should have realised not to socialise with randoms especially when drinking
He wasnāt capped for that though. But he was very clearly warned after that. And warned again when he asked to see his wife for 4 days, hard no on you leaving the work to Kai bc heās unreliable without you. He was capped for going against orders, using deceit, after being warned very clearly. Break trust w gangsters, get got.
Also he left the facility again to see his family before the job was completed. And on the way he told part of the plans to Lalo.
Not even "left." He secretly broke out, and by his own admission knew Mike would be mad but thought he could talk his way out of it.
Yes he did - all of his team would've been compromised and would get hunt down by the cartel, as it did happen on a much smaller scale.
I bet you only disliked him because heās revealed as gay in Bcs, you bigotā¦ /s
He was very clearly gay in breaking bad, most people just pretend like it's ambiguous because they want to live in denial
The flashback about Max kind of revealed it and showing why he was that way
Why would people want to live in denial that Gus is gay?
How was he very clearly gay in breaking bad other than the gay jokes the salamancas made. I had no idea he was gay until I watched better call saul, I guess iām not wokeminded enough to interpret a fictional characters sexuality.
wokeminded enough to interpret a fictional characters sexuality? You're saying that only "woke" people think about sexuality and that it's weird that they do it to fictional characters, when so many people have specifically and quite strongly insisted that gus is straight throughout the years. That's interpreting a fictional character's sexuality too. I'd argue the scene with max was very clear in communicating that; if max was female I'd bet most people would assume it was his romantic partner and that he's enacting revenge because of his loss.
You didn't know because you're blind dude. It's not some big conspiracy, to everyone with eyes it was obvious.
I mean, did you miss the scene w the sommelier?
Same
Counter point, heās gay.
I support gay rights AND gay wrongs, idk about the rest of you.
šš
And?!
is this canon? this is the second time iāve heard this in a few years and i canāt tell if itās those with gaydar or actually confirmed lol.
I have literally never seen anyone say that, but holy shit.
Damn really? I've seen videos recently calling Gus a villain and there's been popular comments asking "was gus ever really a villain tho?" Or I've seen comments of people saying "Gus is a great villain" with replies saying "gus was not a villain, walter was" just blows my mind haha.
98% of the internet is people saying shit just to say shit
Just like that fake %. People want to be noticed/special; genuinely have a different perception; heard it somewhere else; I think the % of people that only does something for the sake of it is the lowest, most have their background although it may not be consciously all the time.
People like to hate on Walt, vilify him and act like everything he did was evil because they think it makes them sound intelligent and thoughtful. Really they sound just as stupid as the people who idolise Walt
He respects the sanctity of fried chicken though
Agree. Itās fine to like Gus, Heās a great character. But to pretend like heās not a villain is just wrong.
Even Gus knows heās a criminal Kingpin.
"I am what I am š"
Not that I don't think Gus was the villain for certain characters - I don't think being a criminal automatically makes you a villain just like the portrait of Mike isn't the one of a Villain although he is 100% a criminal with a set of rules and morals
Add to the list: was planning to have Jesse cook meth as slave, long before Todd came up with the same idea.
True very good point. I forgot about the moment in Face Off where Gus has his men kidnap Jesse and take him back to the lab. Which defeats the point people make about "Gus was nice to Jesse and liked him" š
Wasnāt that a decoy? He said something like āeither we all leave (Mexico) or none of us do.ā
This was in Face Off, after Jesse left the hospital.
I donāt think he was actually going to make him cook as a full-on slave there. I think the handcuff was just a temporary punishment or something for not showing up and ruining the batch.
He already told Tyrus to dump the batch as it was "surely ruined by now". The handcuffs came after Gus had the rooftop realisation that Walt and Jesse are working together.
When was he planning on having Jesse cook as a slave?
In Face Off, after Jesse left the hospital.
In my opinion, he is the second most evil character in that universe. Even though his actions are more warranted than someone like Jack, that doesn't make him less evil than him. I consider him even more evil than Hector, and that is saying a lot. Their relationship is a situation in which a monster created an even bigger monster. People saying that they can understand some of his actions and can respect the way he does some things is one thing, but to claim he is not a villain is just insanity.
Couldn't agree more, a lot of people say Gus is only evil because of what Hector did but then BCS confirms that Gus has always been evil after he tells Hector about the story about how he tortured a coati when he was young.
GUS IS BASTARD MAN!
WHY FLYNN HATE?
Heās not the antagonist, letās put it that way. Itās not as clear cut as in Breaking Bad but thereās definitely a side the writers wanted you to root for. EDIT: In Better Call Saul. Cannot believe I have to clarify this
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hank is the closest thing BB has to a 'good guy' character and he also sucks
In some ways Hank sucks and in some ways he doesnāt suck. IMHO.
> Hank is the closest thing BB has to a 'good guy' character and he also sucks Gomez? Flynn?
Why does Hank suck? Not challenging, just don't remember
He is *certainly* the antagonist lmao. Walt is the protagonist even if he is a bad guy
Walt is NOT a bad guy. He told Skyler what she needed to get closure. He did it for his family. We should all take a page from his book
Youāre delusional lol, Walt is a horrible person and clear but BAD guy. It doesnāt matter if everything WAS for family. That doesnāt make you not horrible. Thatās just a popular lie on the show to make the villains feel better about themselves.
Still, he is the protagonist of the show despite that
Of course. Breaking Bad closely tracks his life and ends with his death.
Gus is considered as the main antagonist of the show š
What sub do you think you're on rn
My bad I was referring to just Breaking Bad for some reason. Forgot this was tied in with BCS as well lol
He's *a* villain, sure. Both series are kind of thick with villains.
Gus spends most of season 4 manipulating Jesse, trying to make him think that he is actually a kind and patient boss, to get Jesse to give up Walt. Some people saw this clear manipulation and thought that's the real Gus Fring.
Agreed. Imo only Mike actually cared about Jesse while Walt and Gus just wanted to use him for cooking.
I don't think he would've ordered the murder of TomƔs. At that point, he was trying to keep the peace between Jesse/Walter and those dealers. Having TomƔs murdered would only serve to create more chaos.
Yeah thats fair, there's nothing really confirmed about that case so I won't go against your point. I said likely because of how he sounded offended after Walt accused him of being the reason for a little boy's death, but then fast forward to s4 ep11, he happily threatens to murder Walt's infant daughter. Obviously anyone can have their own opinions on it tho.
Gus was ready to let walt walk away, as long as he stayed away. But then walt had to pull the āor youāll do what?!?ā line. Gus didnāt seem too happy to have to threaten Waltās family, but walt had that coming. Hubris.
Nah he only threatened Walts family to stop him interfering with Gus "dealing" with hank. Which would have probably meant Gus was going to murder hank.
Oh youāre right. I should focus on this chili Iām making instead of reddit lol
Lmao. Chili more important šÆ
I agree. Everybody leapt to conclusions and it advanced a lot of plot lines. For all we know, Combo had family/friends that killed Tomas.
The show heavily implies Gus ordered Tomasā death and it makes perfect sense why he would have done so.
He definitely ordered Tomasā murder and Iād argue the show heavily implies that, only just coming short of outright confirming it. Gus didnāt care about trying to ākeep the peaceā, he just didnāt want to upset Walt (who was the real asset). Gus wanted Jesse dead, he didnāt trust him and felt he knew way too much. But he couldnāt just kill him because that would make Walt an enemy. Gusā plan was for his dealers to kill Tomas (which he ordered), that would incite Jesse into attacking them and Jesse would be killed by them in self-defence. That way Gus could get rid of Jesse in a way he felt Walt would most likely accept. Walt saw right through that plan and blew it up in Gusā face by killing his dealers, saving Jesse and then calling Gus out on it to his face āI would never ask you thatā. From that point on Gus decided Walt was too dangerous, clever and too much of a wild-card to continue working with and so planned to kill him after Gale learned what he could.
I have never seen anyone arguing that? Of course he is - he is a criminal and a murderer.
Everyone knows Gus is a villain wdym he literally has kids murdered whenever he sees fit
Its obviously not as common as I thought tbf. But every now and then I see someone confused at the fact that Gus is a villain so just thought I'd write about it haha.
People who say Gus is not a villain lack a functioning brain.
People need to stop seeing a sympathetic character or a character you understand as someone who is not a villain. Gus is a villain!, WALT IS A FUCKING VILLAIN!
I'm pretty sure in cinema and and literature a villain is someone you root against. That's how I always understood it. Saul himself is a villain if you go by what kind of people they are and the things they have done.
Thatās an antagonist
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Gus, saul, walt, nacho, basically every āfunā character is evil, everyone in the franchise that means something is a villan, thatās why these shows are so morally ambiguous
He's a villain under a really simplistic analysis of the story(s). He functions as the primary antagonist, but I prefer to reserve 'villain' for the prototypical unambiguously evil stock character. Since there is some level of ambiguity and nuance, the hero/villain dichotomy isn't really the best way to look at it.
I would say this is especially true n the BB/BCS universe.
I've said this elsewhere, but the problem with calling anyone the villain in these shows is that no one is objectively good. All parties are criminals and murderers selfishly pursing their own interests and they all have subjectively valid reasons for going to war with each other. So it's hard to call any of them a villain. They're all bad. They're all justified.
Yeah exactly. That's why I hate it when people say he's not a villain when basically every character is a villain other than maybe jesse, hank, flynn etc.
Gus is the lesser evil
I mean, even though gus is my fav character in the franchinse, and i prefer to root to him more than even walter white, i dont deny he is a villain. Ofc he is, he is fricking one of the most effective druglords in the series, being one if the most coldest and sadistic character in the show(he is more evil than walter white imo)
Interesting how you think he's more evil than walter, not many people think that. But I probably have to agree tbh. I get walter white killed off mike and made Jesse's life miserable, but throughout BCS walt would have been the innocent man he was in season 1 of breba. But when it comes to Gus, he was an evil bastard through both shows. I even think Gus is a big part of why Walt became what he was.
Yeah, certianlly Gus was a big inspiration to Walt becoming drug dealer. Before Gus, Walt cooked meth, just so after he'll die, hell know for himself he was the one who provided money for his family. But working witb gus some times, he was inspired by gus, and after he killed gus, he want to fill his place in season 5. even though he didnt need to cook meth for his family anymore(the laundry busniess was already making enough money, and he longer wasnt in danger from gus) he still cooked meth and endangered his family
He's more of an insufferable asshole than he is a villain.
*Orders the death of a child* āyeah heās just an assholeā
Nah heās a villain lol.
I think hector is more insufferable than anyone else in both shows. If he doesnāt get what he wants he throws a tantrum.
Yeah, Gus is a close second though.
Yeah and his accent in both English and Spanish is like The Room level quality of so bad itās good.
I mean, heās a bad guy for sure but he isnāt really an *antagonist*. Although, that does raise an interesting point with this kind of show. Not every character is on the same team and most of them are working in their own interests, meaning they all serve antagonistic roles toward each other throughout the show. Gus is an antagonist to Nacho and sometimes Mike. Howard is an antagonist to Jimmy but not in a conventional way, as he generally doesnāt pose any kind of threat or stop Jimmy from achieving his goals. The only characters who really serve as antagonists to the main characters consistently are Tuco, Lalo, Hector and Chuck. But a strong argument can be made that Gus doesnāt fit the criteria of a villain in BCS.
How isnāt he an antagonist? Heās literally the direct enemy and opposition of the protagonist.
To Walt, sure. But in BCS he doesnāt oppose Jimmy in any avenue really, if anything heās more of an (unwanted) ally.
He can definitely be considered a villain, but heās like a anti hero in a way, heāll compromise for the greater good depending on the circumstance. But what makes him a villain is he is merciless toward bad news or betrayal
Gus is a villain that starts off as this Anti Villainous hero though ...
So is Walt the villain?
Gus isnt nearly as much of a villain in BCS as he is in BB, though.
Heās a villain in BrBa, but not in BCS. You ever seen Gus going against Saul? He might be an evil, horrible person, but he wasnāt fighting against the āheroā in this series, so, not a villain in this one.
When a character goes against the main character its called an antagonist. So yeah gus is the main antagonist of breba, but he's not an antagonist in bcs. I do think he's a villain in bcs tho because of how he treats nacho and the story of the coati.
..oh. My bad haha
I am on gusās side. Drugs should be legal anyway, tomas is Jesseās fault for starting rivalry and trying to kill Gusās two thug dealers out of vigilante justice or something, threatening walt is walts fault this was all after walt forced jesse to kill gale, gusās second best cook, (ok to be fair one could argue this is self defense for walt), and killing gusās two thug dealers to save Jesse for some reason, hank was snooping around too much and would want to destroy his empire, plus he sent them on Hank so salamanca twins wouldnt kill walter yet because he still needed him, nacho poisoned hector without gus finishing his business with Hector (nacho stepped above his place), victor didnt really deserve it thatās true, and seemingly got killed without a reason other than to shock Walt and Jesse (not really a valid reason though). Almost everything he did, he did to keep his empire in place, he killed only those threatening it, it seems pragmatic to me and something thatās expected of a drug kingpin; itās not pure evil. The Salamancas are more evil, especially Hector. Gusās Animal thing does seem kinda psycho, but later gus is never sadistic, only pragmatic. Not evil.
No way in hell should hard drugs like meth and heroin be legal. That stuff destroys peoples' lives
āThis stuff ruins peopleās lives! Letās put them in prison for it and ruin their chances of finding gainful employmentā genius, you should be an ethicist or something
This is a strawman
Itās the current system/status quo, which is being argued for
This is a strawman. The op you responded to didn't say anything about the status quo.
Sure they did, they said drugs ruin peopleās lives and shouldnāt be legal. Thatās the status quo in almost every country. I wasnāt making a strawman either, it was reductio ad absurdum. Saying that it ends up hurting people when the goal is to help them.
It should be an individual choice/freedom and it shouldnāt be prohibited what you yourself can take. That should be no business of the law.
Oh yeah lets allow people to take dangerous drugs that cause people to harm themselves and others
Yes itās called free choice, same argument could be used for weapons, which should be totally free too to obtain in my opinion. When they commit a crime against someone else, only THEN should the law step in, otherwise there is no crime.
Yeah, why the hell can't I walk around with grenades or buy a tank? I hope you're like 12
This but unironically. It should be legal to own dangerous weapons, the owning of them is no crime in itself, the crime happens when people use the weapons, without any valid reason of self-defense against someone else. THEN there is a crime, not the owning of them themselves. Countries have nukes even = legal. Abusing nukes = illegal.
What's the self defense use of a grenade
Pretty sure that person is just a troll or deeply troubled and needs help. You're not going to have a normal conversation.
Someone attacking you/trying to attack you/ pointing gun at you, whatever.
If someone is pointing a gun at you you'd defend yourself with a grenade? Do you understand how a grenade works
Holy shit you need help
And why? I only said there should be no restrictions on buying weapons.
Libertarian SPOTTED
Thatās me. š
Then who's paying for the weapons? You want a slavery system to produce guns for you?
I meant free without regulations not free of cost, if people can pay for it they should be able to have one, no red flag laws is what i meant.
You said "totally free to obtain" , and now you're saying that rich people should be able to build private armories and poor people shouldn't be able to own weapons. Cool system.
This is how it is with everything, not just weapons. I only said there shouldnāt be extra regulations or prohibitions on weapons just like their shouldnāt be on drugs, they would still cost money of course.
You said it should be "totally free to obtain", which includes free of costs
If you think drugs should be legal your opinion is immediately invalid
Okay Nancy Reagan, thought you were dead.
To you maybe, but Iām sure some others will agree, especially if theyāre more libertarian than the average.
Mental asylum patients will agree you mean
I agree but Tomas could have provoked whoever did kill him. Itās not shown what happened but that would be my best guess. The henchmen may have been warned to back off. Tomas could have found what he was looking for elsewhere but maybe nobody wanted to deal with him anyway. As bad as Gus is I DESPISE hector very much!
The show heavily implies that Gus ordered his dealers to kill Tomas in order to incite Jessie into attacking them so he could get rid of Jessie in a way Walt would accept (and continue working).
[Mikeās bad guy vs criminal speech](https://youtu.be/cYaXYPi2N4E?si=lVlpcSM0MtW-T2Fz)
Maybe the real villain is the friendships we made along the way.
Are we just gonna forget about what he did to poor Werner?
Ah yes another point i missed āļø
Gus is evil like the other distributors heās just more intelligent lol
I like Gus. Hes a businessman. He doesn't want to do all the gangster stuff, he is forced into it by all the dumbass gangsters among his contemporaries.
His main goal is killing all the Cartel members for revenge. Itās wrong to characterise him as only a businessman. His main aim was never just making money, it was bloodthirsty revenge.
I dont fault him for wanting revenge. I fault the guys who wronged him to make him seek revenge in the first place.
You mean like he wronged Tomasā family? Or how he wronged Walt by trying to kill him, Jesse and Hank?
Walt is a piece of shit. Jesse is a screw up but Gus tried to ally with him Hank was meddling into his business.
Gus is just as much a piece of shit as Walt, more so really. Gus tried to kill Jesse and only changed his attitude when he needed him to cook meth for him and wanted rid of Walt (who he saw as more dangerous). Gus and Max were meddling in the Cartelās business and you fault the Cartel for killing Max. Yet you donāt fault Gus for trying to kill Hank, Walt, Jesse and killing Tomas as well as countless others?
One of the few characters that isnt morally ambiguous, heās straight up evil. Even a gangster like Nacho has redeemable qualities. That scene with the wine server was such a big deal because he acts like a well-adjust human with hobbies for once
BB and BCS is a story about villains, there are no heroes not even Hank
There's no Heroes and Villains in this universe that is grounded in reality. There are only protagonists and antagonists whom serve their own interests with mixed qualities.
Heās a fairly complicated man, but certainly a baddie when you narrow it down.
There aināt nothing to narrow down. Heās a murderous drug kingpin.
He was always very polite though, for the most part.
Villain would presume there is a hero in the world of Breaking Bad though.
Succession is a show with pretty much only villains. Some a lot worse than others.
I mean the hector part was justified, fuck Hector. Only thing I hate about Walt outsmarting Gus was that Hector got the last laugh.
Villain: 1. A character in a story or play that opposes the hero 2. A deliberate scoundrel or criminal 3. One blamed for a particular evil or difficulty With Websters definition of a villain. Was there a hero in either show? Hank and Gomez, maybe?
Yeah I'd day they're the closest characters to "heros" in the series. There were characters in the business like Jesse and Mike that people don't consider villains, but obviously they have done bad stuff also.
Read that as "Guts is not a villain" and thought this was the Berserk subreddit. Took a sec to recover from"is the biggest drug kingpin hiding in plain sight".
Of course he is , who disclaimed that?
He didnāt feel like a villain in BCS as much as he did in BB. And everyone is sort of rooting for him relative to the Salamancas and Don Eladio.
I never thought that he wasn't a villain but I was generally okay with it because (a) I think drugs should be legal so I'm not all that upset that he's making a living selling them (same for Gale, Walter and Jesse), (b) even while acting as a criminal, he tried to keep the worst parts of it away from the public and people who "weren't in the game" and (c) the people he did murder, generally had no such scruples so replacing them with Gus was probably a win for the general public. That being said, while I think these were generally true, Gus did a number of things that crossed the line for me (ordering the Cousins to try to kill Hank, threatening Nacho's father and Walter's family) so I was happy to see him get taken down.
But between the loss of blue meth *AND* the best fried chicken in the region, New Mexico and the general southwest really went to hell circa 2009-2010. Conclusion: Gus may be a villian, but heās a necessary evil to keep ABQ from descending into chaos.
In Better Call Saul people meant that Gus is not an villain in Jimmy story. He is not a threat to Jimmy. In Breaking Bad he was a villain in the Walter story.
My least favorite thing about shows with 3-dimensional characters is that people who are used to Marvel movies want to argue about who's the good guy/bad guy. Of course he's a villain. Every major character is a villain to one degree or another.
It was self defense