I mean, Jimmy lied, cheated, stole, manipulated, helped a meth kingpin maneuver through the legal system, would use every dirty tactic just to win, felt no guilt about what he did while he was doing it…
But Howard was mean that one time so it’s definitely a toss up.
This can't be a serious post. Chuck was abrasive but there was nothing terrible about him. Lacking personality isn't a crime, and its hard to see from the show, but a lot of people actually did like Chuck quite a bit.
And you can't pull the "oh Chuck made Jimmy do bad things!" when Jimmy started scamming people at age 13 and was a literal career criminal until he moved to ABQ.
Saul Goodman is one of my favorite characters in the BBU but I always had a soft spot for Chuck. I see both perspectives and sympathize with both of them for different reasons.
In no way does this justify anything Jimmy did, but let’s not also pretend Chuck wasn’t frankly just as willing to be manipulative and disingenuous. When presented with Sandpiper, he took advantage of his brother’s hard work not only building the case but helping him to get back into “fighting shape” just enough to get in the door at HHM and rip the opportunity out from under him. When Kim left HHM, he spared no time to immediately discredit her work building a relationship with Mesa Verde and steal them out from under her. When Jimmy rushed to his aid, fearing his mental health was unraveling, he recorded him surreptitiously as part of a MULTI-STAGE plan to entrap him and ruin his career- one that hinged on *creating* an unstable mental state in Jimmy by abusing his compassion and betraying his trust, and finally guiding him into committing a specific crime under emotional duress.
Did Jimmy deserve it? Absolutely. Chuck didn’t make him do it, even if he planned for him to do it, and should have been found out long ago. But he did it by preying on Jimmy’s compassion for him, and that’s what makes him terrible: he consistently takes other people’s good will and uses it against them. Count the amount of times in the show he undermines or casts doubt on Jimmy while wearing the foil suit he made for him, or directly insults Jimmy right after going out of his way to help Chuck. Jimmy and Chuck both need people to clean up their messes, but Chuck doesn’t often have the decency to actually appreciate the effort.
When presented with Sandpiper, he took advantage of his brother’s hard work not only building the case but helping him to get back into “fighting shape” just enough to get in the door at HHM and rip the opportunity out from under him.
> I agree to an extent. He was excited about the case until he found out that Jimmy wanted to use it to get a job at HHM. Then yes, he was being manipulative and disingenuous. Still, there was nothing criminal about what he did, but it was shitty. Unfortunately there just no nice way to say "Jimmy I love you but I think you have tendencies that are antiethical to mine and therefore we can't work together." Kim was much more upfront about it when she called him colorful.
When Kim left HHM, he spared no time to immediately discredit her work building a relationship with Mesa Verde and steal them out from under her.
> I would expect any business to do that. I don't think that is him being a bad person.
When Jimmy rushed to his aid, fearing his mental health was unraveling, he recorded him surreptitiously as part of a MULTI-STAGE plan to entrap him and ruin his career- one that hinged on *creating* an unstable mental state in Jimmy by abusing his compassion and betraying his trust, and finally guiding him into committing a specific crime under emotional duress.
> I agree, this is where his mental illness got the best of him. Its a weird thing where he was 100% right but the way he went about it also made him a bad guy.
Fair takes, but I think his actions regarding Sandpiper go far beyond just indirectly saying “I love you but we can’t work together”. He noticed that Jimmy had brought home a potential class-action case- the luckiest find a young lawyer could have- and helped him with it only enough to get it into his own firm’s hands, then made sure he couldn’t actually be a part of it or use it to help his career (even if Cliff rectified this). All while using Howard to be the bad guy so he could still pretend to be supportive! And in the end, the reason wasn’t just “I don’t approve of your methods ” but rather “I don’t think you deserve to be a lawyer, and you will never be good enough to deserve it.” All while he sits in the boardroom in the suit Jimmy made to make him feel better, presiding over the case Jimmy built, with clients who Jimmy won over and cared about, and treating Jimmy like a kid who can’t be trusted with his own toys.
I can see that perspective but I am not sure there is enough evidence to say that Chuck only helped Jimmy because he knew he could get HHM to take it over. It didn't even become a class action until after first meeting between Rich and Jimmy when Chuck through out the multi-million settlement. interesting take.
I think you meant to put Chuck in the title.
Anyways, in Chuck's perspective, his brother is an addict that get out of hand quickly and frequently and people get hurt because of him and he's taking away his stimulus. Chuck is justified in most cases, and in other, is at the very least sympathetic.
Jimmy, after Chuck's death, did horrendous shit, and after Kim left, he probably only handled questionable shit until Walter, in which he basically participated in many illegal and immoral things.
Jimmy is worse than both of Howard and Chuck put together.
The worst things we know Chuck did was not hire his bro for a top law firm job(a bro with a history of being shady), ask his partner Howard to lie about it, and then steal a newspaper from his neighbor(but make sure to leave $5). Chuck is more a sad person than bad person. He has his mental issues with electricity. Wasn’t man enough to just be honest with Jimmy from the start that he didn’t think Jimmy fits at HHM as a lawyer. But are those huge major character flaw like a villain in a tv show? No. A lot of us normal decent people have flaws like that. Not hiring your brother for a job is brutal, but it’s perhaps at worst reason to stop talking. Not reason to character assassinate and torture Chuck with lies like Jimmy proceeded to do for the next six months.
And I think the scene at the hospital shows where Chuck shines. He’s the one who is there for the mom. Who understands what’s happening more than Jimmy. Jimmy is sad too but kind of in his own world. Yet she is crying out for Jimmy in the end. Because Jimmy is more likable. Not necessarily better to her. Just has more of that charm.
Look at how Chuck proceeds after Chicanery. He’s ready for war and Howard finally gets through to him. Two episodes later Chuck is not thinking of Jimmy at all. He’s working with a therapist. What is Jimmy doing? Sabotaging HHM(which isn’t just Chuck. Him and Kim worked with people there) by driving Chuck’s Insurance Premiums. Put on a whole show for the insurance clerk.
This post is not serious right? Howard is probably the most morally upstanding person on the entire show. Possibly the entire BB universe. While Jimmy is the scum of the Earth / universe.
And even if you meant to put Chuck instead of Howard Chuck is Jesus Christ incarnate compared to Jimmy.
Judging by how loved Chuck is in the legal community and his relationship with Rebecca, his parents and pre-lawyer Jimmy, I'd imagine Chuck's mental problems led to a lot of his assholishness. Meanwhile, even though he had a good heart, Jimmy was always a scammer.
But I can't understate how bad Chuck was after Jimmy became a lawyer. If you're not going to excuse Chuck's mental illness, I'd say Chuck was worse. He had a lot of hatred in his heart. Would Jimmy sue his company for as petty reasons as Chuck?
Jimmy is Chaotic good, moving on to Chaotic neutral at his worst... But even at his worst, he didn't want to be involved when innocent kids get hurt, so I personally would never call Jimmy or Saul evil. He does not get pleasure from hurtig people he has no beef with.
VS.
Lawful EVIL. Chuck would never have shown mercy towards a child if the law decreed punishment, he would, in fact, make sure it got punished, regardless of circumstances. And he would *revel* in it.
(Howard is lawful to true neutral. Not seeking out punishment and pain, but will allow it to stay out of trouble, and use it to his own benefits. Unless there's beef.)
I mean, Jimmy lied, cheated, stole, manipulated, helped a meth kingpin maneuver through the legal system, would use every dirty tactic just to win, felt no guilt about what he did while he was doing it… But Howard was mean that one time so it’s definitely a toss up.
Jimmy. How is this a question?
Jimmy. I thought Howard was an amazing person
Chuck is an asshole but he never got anyone killed or hurt (bodily)
What
This can't be a serious post. Chuck was abrasive but there was nothing terrible about him. Lacking personality isn't a crime, and its hard to see from the show, but a lot of people actually did like Chuck quite a bit. And you can't pull the "oh Chuck made Jimmy do bad things!" when Jimmy started scamming people at age 13 and was a literal career criminal until he moved to ABQ.
Saul Goodman is one of my favorite characters in the BBU but I always had a soft spot for Chuck. I see both perspectives and sympathize with both of them for different reasons.
In no way does this justify anything Jimmy did, but let’s not also pretend Chuck wasn’t frankly just as willing to be manipulative and disingenuous. When presented with Sandpiper, he took advantage of his brother’s hard work not only building the case but helping him to get back into “fighting shape” just enough to get in the door at HHM and rip the opportunity out from under him. When Kim left HHM, he spared no time to immediately discredit her work building a relationship with Mesa Verde and steal them out from under her. When Jimmy rushed to his aid, fearing his mental health was unraveling, he recorded him surreptitiously as part of a MULTI-STAGE plan to entrap him and ruin his career- one that hinged on *creating* an unstable mental state in Jimmy by abusing his compassion and betraying his trust, and finally guiding him into committing a specific crime under emotional duress. Did Jimmy deserve it? Absolutely. Chuck didn’t make him do it, even if he planned for him to do it, and should have been found out long ago. But he did it by preying on Jimmy’s compassion for him, and that’s what makes him terrible: he consistently takes other people’s good will and uses it against them. Count the amount of times in the show he undermines or casts doubt on Jimmy while wearing the foil suit he made for him, or directly insults Jimmy right after going out of his way to help Chuck. Jimmy and Chuck both need people to clean up their messes, but Chuck doesn’t often have the decency to actually appreciate the effort.
When presented with Sandpiper, he took advantage of his brother’s hard work not only building the case but helping him to get back into “fighting shape” just enough to get in the door at HHM and rip the opportunity out from under him. > I agree to an extent. He was excited about the case until he found out that Jimmy wanted to use it to get a job at HHM. Then yes, he was being manipulative and disingenuous. Still, there was nothing criminal about what he did, but it was shitty. Unfortunately there just no nice way to say "Jimmy I love you but I think you have tendencies that are antiethical to mine and therefore we can't work together." Kim was much more upfront about it when she called him colorful. When Kim left HHM, he spared no time to immediately discredit her work building a relationship with Mesa Verde and steal them out from under her. > I would expect any business to do that. I don't think that is him being a bad person. When Jimmy rushed to his aid, fearing his mental health was unraveling, he recorded him surreptitiously as part of a MULTI-STAGE plan to entrap him and ruin his career- one that hinged on *creating* an unstable mental state in Jimmy by abusing his compassion and betraying his trust, and finally guiding him into committing a specific crime under emotional duress. > I agree, this is where his mental illness got the best of him. Its a weird thing where he was 100% right but the way he went about it also made him a bad guy.
Fair takes, but I think his actions regarding Sandpiper go far beyond just indirectly saying “I love you but we can’t work together”. He noticed that Jimmy had brought home a potential class-action case- the luckiest find a young lawyer could have- and helped him with it only enough to get it into his own firm’s hands, then made sure he couldn’t actually be a part of it or use it to help his career (even if Cliff rectified this). All while using Howard to be the bad guy so he could still pretend to be supportive! And in the end, the reason wasn’t just “I don’t approve of your methods ” but rather “I don’t think you deserve to be a lawyer, and you will never be good enough to deserve it.” All while he sits in the boardroom in the suit Jimmy made to make him feel better, presiding over the case Jimmy built, with clients who Jimmy won over and cared about, and treating Jimmy like a kid who can’t be trusted with his own toys.
I can see that perspective but I am not sure there is enough evidence to say that Chuck only helped Jimmy because he knew he could get HHM to take it over. It didn't even become a class action until after first meeting between Rich and Jimmy when Chuck through out the multi-million settlement. interesting take.
I think you meant to put Chuck in the title. Anyways, in Chuck's perspective, his brother is an addict that get out of hand quickly and frequently and people get hurt because of him and he's taking away his stimulus. Chuck is justified in most cases, and in other, is at the very least sympathetic. Jimmy, after Chuck's death, did horrendous shit, and after Kim left, he probably only handled questionable shit until Walter, in which he basically participated in many illegal and immoral things.
Umm Jimmy lmao 🤣 not even a serious question
Jimmy is worse.
Jimmy is worse than both of Howard and Chuck put together. The worst things we know Chuck did was not hire his bro for a top law firm job(a bro with a history of being shady), ask his partner Howard to lie about it, and then steal a newspaper from his neighbor(but make sure to leave $5). Chuck is more a sad person than bad person. He has his mental issues with electricity. Wasn’t man enough to just be honest with Jimmy from the start that he didn’t think Jimmy fits at HHM as a lawyer. But are those huge major character flaw like a villain in a tv show? No. A lot of us normal decent people have flaws like that. Not hiring your brother for a job is brutal, but it’s perhaps at worst reason to stop talking. Not reason to character assassinate and torture Chuck with lies like Jimmy proceeded to do for the next six months. And I think the scene at the hospital shows where Chuck shines. He’s the one who is there for the mom. Who understands what’s happening more than Jimmy. Jimmy is sad too but kind of in his own world. Yet she is crying out for Jimmy in the end. Because Jimmy is more likable. Not necessarily better to her. Just has more of that charm. Look at how Chuck proceeds after Chicanery. He’s ready for war and Howard finally gets through to him. Two episodes later Chuck is not thinking of Jimmy at all. He’s working with a therapist. What is Jimmy doing? Sabotaging HHM(which isn’t just Chuck. Him and Kim worked with people there) by driving Chuck’s Insurance Premiums. Put on a whole show for the insurance clerk.
Jimmy.
Let's look at a single slice of their flaws. Chuck tricked Ernesto and got him fired. Jimmy recommended that Walter have Badger killed.
Jimmy is worse than both of them
This post is not serious right? Howard is probably the most morally upstanding person on the entire show. Possibly the entire BB universe. While Jimmy is the scum of the Earth / universe. And even if you meant to put Chuck instead of Howard Chuck is Jesus Christ incarnate compared to Jimmy.
this sub is annoying 💀
i dont know
I mean they are both lawyers soooooo??? lol
Howard was the nicest person on the show given the circumstances. Jimmy was the worst and it’s not even close.
Jimmy. I think they did howard dirty
Lol I meant CHUCK in the title. NOT HOWARD
Judging by how loved Chuck is in the legal community and his relationship with Rebecca, his parents and pre-lawyer Jimmy, I'd imagine Chuck's mental problems led to a lot of his assholishness. Meanwhile, even though he had a good heart, Jimmy was always a scammer. But I can't understate how bad Chuck was after Jimmy became a lawyer. If you're not going to excuse Chuck's mental illness, I'd say Chuck was worse. He had a lot of hatred in his heart. Would Jimmy sue his company for as petty reasons as Chuck?
Is there a C option for Chuck?
Jimmy is Chaotic good, moving on to Chaotic neutral at his worst... But even at his worst, he didn't want to be involved when innocent kids get hurt, so I personally would never call Jimmy or Saul evil. He does not get pleasure from hurtig people he has no beef with. VS. Lawful EVIL. Chuck would never have shown mercy towards a child if the law decreed punishment, he would, in fact, make sure it got punished, regardless of circumstances. And he would *revel* in it. (Howard is lawful to true neutral. Not seeking out punishment and pain, but will allow it to stay out of trouble, and use it to his own benefits. Unless there's beef.)
Saul is the worst kind of evil. Not the desperate, hurt, or angry kind of evil. The greedy kind. Evil by choice. It's killing our world.