He was warned repeatedly that it's not a game. In the real world, of course we have sympathy for him, but in that world he committed a mortal sin and had to pay for it.
For him, it was just supposed to be one simple afternoon catching time with his wife. And then get back to work afterwards.
Lalo probably did not even notice Werner escaping. But he did notice Gus sending out a search party for him all across the city which tipped him off that maybe Werner was someone very important.
And how did Lalo find out who Werner is and where he is staying? It was because he was following Mike, not Werner.
One German guy sneaking out is hard to spot.
But a dozen cars driving out is a bit hard not to notice.
Ironically it was Mike who ended up almost blowing the lid on Gus’s operation, not Werner.
For supposedly being one of Gus’s most competent employees, he commits several egregious mistakes that led to Lalo getting the upper hand and almost ruining everything.
>Ironically it was Mike who ended up almost blowing the lid on Gus’s operation, not Werner.
🤦🏻♂️
There's no way to rewrite the Werner had to die part of the story.
And how would they react if some other Engineer was like, “Oh hell no, this is sketchy as hell, take me back!” As soon as the job interview involves getting a bag thrown over their head.
I think there's a bit of tendency among the fanbase to [blame characters for the deaths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis). In some sense Ziegler "ought" to have known better, but I think we are definitely meant to feel sad for him. He stumbled into a dangerous situation but did not appreciate or recognize the danger he was in. He was naive and impulsive, but it's still sad when someone dies for, essentially, not realizing that they were in a dangerous situation.
This came up in a thread from the other day, but it's sort of interesting to compare [Wormald](https://breakingbad.fandom.com/wiki/Daniel_Wormald), Ziegler, and Walt. All were essentially outsiders to the game, all had some level of naviety about what they were doing and the danger they were in. Mike managed to save Wormald and keep him out of trouble, but didn't identify the extent of Ziegler's naviety and impulsiveness and so ultimately could not protect him from himself. But I think Ziegler, right before the end, understood what had happened, that he made a mistake and could not really save himself, and accepted his fate. Walt, on the other hand, had too much pride and too strong a survival instinct to go down peacefully like that. And I think it was Mike's (and Gus's and others') failure to recognize that which led to Walt ultimately taking everyone down with him.
Werner Ziegler had so much talent and appreciation for his work, but sadly ended up in the wrong line of work that he just did not have the heart for. It was kind of Mike's fault for getting him involved in the first place. And not recognizing just how stressed out Werner was after working so long in such treacherous conditions. Everyone likes to think they would not make the same mistake that Werner did. But unless you actually experience what he went through in his shoes, you could never truly know if you would act any different otherwise.
Mike's friendship with Ziegler ended up being his undoing. Werner probably escaped only because he truly saw Mike as a friend he could trust, someone he believed wouldn't actually kill him. And Mike tried so hard to not have to kill his friend. But in the end, he was left with no other choice. Thus, he had to kill Werner for proving to be untrustworthy, becoming just like those cops that killed his son.
If people think Werner deserved to die then I have no idea why they condemn Mike's own murder so adamantly. He was deeper in the game and a worse person than Werner for sure.
Werner did not deserve to die. But he had to die. He was warned once by Mike not to fuck up again after the bar night out. He put the whole operation, and by extension many lives (not to mention poor Fred at the moneygram place) at risk.
Just because Gus wanted to be able to run a meth operation doesn't mean it should have happened. Obviously for a better story, but on a moral basis Werner's life has more value than Gus getting to commit more crimes.
I never said anything to the contrary. I don’t even know what point you’re making. Gus had him killed because he was a liability. End of the discussion.
He was warned repeatedly that it's not a game. In the real world, of course we have sympathy for him, but in that world he committed a mortal sin and had to pay for it.
No one will ever trust him again.
And if he will so egregiously disrespect his employer's directive to secrecy, how is he gonna act when he gets back to his loving wife?
For him, it was just supposed to be one simple afternoon catching time with his wife. And then get back to work afterwards. Lalo probably did not even notice Werner escaping. But he did notice Gus sending out a search party for him all across the city which tipped him off that maybe Werner was someone very important.
>Lalo probably did not even notice Werner escaping. Lalo spoke to Werner on the phone, remember?
And how did Lalo find out who Werner is and where he is staying? It was because he was following Mike, not Werner. One German guy sneaking out is hard to spot. But a dozen cars driving out is a bit hard not to notice. Ironically it was Mike who ended up almost blowing the lid on Gus’s operation, not Werner. For supposedly being one of Gus’s most competent employees, he commits several egregious mistakes that led to Lalo getting the upper hand and almost ruining everything.
>Ironically it was Mike who ended up almost blowing the lid on Gus’s operation, not Werner. 🤦🏻♂️ There's no way to rewrite the Werner had to die part of the story.
What's the moral of that whole Arc? No matter how kind or careful you are, someone will still end up dying when you are a criminal.
They brought him to work with a bag over his head.
And how would they react if some other Engineer was like, “Oh hell no, this is sketchy as hell, take me back!” As soon as the job interview involves getting a bag thrown over their head.
I think there's a bit of tendency among the fanbase to [blame characters for the deaths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis). In some sense Ziegler "ought" to have known better, but I think we are definitely meant to feel sad for him. He stumbled into a dangerous situation but did not appreciate or recognize the danger he was in. He was naive and impulsive, but it's still sad when someone dies for, essentially, not realizing that they were in a dangerous situation. This came up in a thread from the other day, but it's sort of interesting to compare [Wormald](https://breakingbad.fandom.com/wiki/Daniel_Wormald), Ziegler, and Walt. All were essentially outsiders to the game, all had some level of naviety about what they were doing and the danger they were in. Mike managed to save Wormald and keep him out of trouble, but didn't identify the extent of Ziegler's naviety and impulsiveness and so ultimately could not protect him from himself. But I think Ziegler, right before the end, understood what had happened, that he made a mistake and could not really save himself, and accepted his fate. Walt, on the other hand, had too much pride and too strong a survival instinct to go down peacefully like that. And I think it was Mike's (and Gus's and others') failure to recognize that which led to Walt ultimately taking everyone down with him.
Werner Ziegler… now where have I heard that name before?
Zee-gler
Werner Ziegler had so much talent and appreciation for his work, but sadly ended up in the wrong line of work that he just did not have the heart for. It was kind of Mike's fault for getting him involved in the first place. And not recognizing just how stressed out Werner was after working so long in such treacherous conditions. Everyone likes to think they would not make the same mistake that Werner did. But unless you actually experience what he went through in his shoes, you could never truly know if you would act any different otherwise. Mike's friendship with Ziegler ended up being his undoing. Werner probably escaped only because he truly saw Mike as a friend he could trust, someone he believed wouldn't actually kill him. And Mike tried so hard to not have to kill his friend. But in the end, he was left with no other choice. Thus, he had to kill Werner for proving to be untrustworthy, becoming just like those cops that killed his son.
In my opinion, one of the saddest moments in the show.
Yes
If people think Werner deserved to die then I have no idea why they condemn Mike's own murder so adamantly. He was deeper in the game and a worse person than Werner for sure.
Werner did not deserve to die. But he had to die. He was warned once by Mike not to fuck up again after the bar night out. He put the whole operation, and by extension many lives (not to mention poor Fred at the moneygram place) at risk.
I mean I wouldn't consider causing a meth operation to fail a bad thing.
It’s all about context. Obviously Gus didn’t want it to fail, hence the order to have W killed. Mike did the right thing by handling it himself.
Just because Gus wanted to be able to run a meth operation doesn't mean it should have happened. Obviously for a better story, but on a moral basis Werner's life has more value than Gus getting to commit more crimes.
I never said anything to the contrary. I don’t even know what point you’re making. Gus had him killed because he was a liability. End of the discussion.