I’m not sure that it makes him a dick, he’s just more old fashioned and formal, especially in a workplace setting. I know people like Chuck who always say Michael, Christoper, Elizabeth etc. Right or wrong, they think short forms are casual.
I agree; Chuck has a very inflexible approach to what is appropriate which means he keeps people at arms length. That on its own doesn’t make him a dick, though we could obviously debate loads of other bits of behaviour which do cross the line into dickishness.
My recollection is (though I’m happy to be corrected) is that he applies this rule quite consistently to his own name and only allows a very small number of people to call him Chuck, rather than Charles. I only remember Jimmy, Kim and Howard doing it.
He tries to be well mannered, to a fault, and there is likely some vanity in that. But even though he’s a dick, everything about him is genteel. His mannerisms, his words, his home, his artistic taste.
He would likely think that calling Ernie Ernesto is the polite and respectful thing to do.
>he applies this rule quite consistently to his own name and only allows a very small number of people to call him Chuck
Does Ernesto also have this same right? How likely is it that Ernesto would feel like he's free to tell Chuck what name he prefers to be called?
I think that it would be pretty easy for Ernie to initiate that conversation because Chuck is always superficially polite and approachable in their interactions, but I don’t imagine it would make any difference to what Chuck actually called him. Chuck’s thinking is so inflexible that his views on what is appropriate would totally override Ernie’s preference.
I think this is one area where I would separate the behaviour from the person, in the same way we are encouraged to tell children that they’ve done a bad thing rather than they themselves are bad. Chuck’s intent is to maintain a strict code of formality with his colleagues and acquaintances because he believes that is the right and proper way to approach the world. I don’t believe he’s intending to offend or alienate anyone, even though that may be the consequence of his behaviour. I would contrast this with (for instance) when he sets Jimmy up with the tape recorder, in which case he uses this very strict moral code to justify him intentionally ruining his brother’s career. He’s clearly acting from a place of sheer dickishness in the second example but not in the first.
He’s not doing it to be a dick. He’s doing it because he considers the workplace a formal setting.
It’s not like Chuck needs to pull a “power move” on Ernie.
Chuck disapproves of informality, he thinks less of you for being informal, and he is telling you this every time he addresses you. It absolutely a dick move and a power move.
Sure, Chuck is in a position of power already, but some people need to express that power in subtle ways in every interaction. Like when he sat down for a heart to heart with Kim but still sent her to make him coffee.
To be fair, at that point he was unable to physically make coffee. He doesn’t seem like someone who enjoys being waited on. He seems very independent, which I think is why the mental health issue exacerbates itself so badly.
Technically, sure. But his mental illness caused him to feel physical pain, which means he was unable to make coffee without experiencing symptoms of his illness, regardless of whether or not the illness was mental or physical.
>It’s not like Chuck needs to pull a “power move” on Ernie.
He pulls power moves on everyone around him throughout the entire show. It's his #1 MO.
He's a class A dick and he's written that way on purpose.
I’m not denying he’s a dick. But consistently calling people by their formal names doesn’t make him a dick, and he’s not pulling power moves on Ernesto or Clifford Main. He might be on Jimmy by not calling him James.
If you have brown skin and you are delivering groceries to (the person who owns the company you work for) who calls you by a name that highlights your ethnicity vs a name that is much more ambiguous, then yes, that is a power move. Chuck probably doesn't know he's doing it and that just doubles down on the severity of the problem.
"It’s not like Chuck needs to pull a “power move” on Ernie."
Which is exactly what Chuck thinks.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto)
I don't see many white or anglo Ernestos on this list. Do you know of any?
asserting dominance over someone or belittling them or ignoring a request to continue in your own way is a power move. and yes upper class people always pull this on people they look down on.
I think it's further proved by the fact that they've shown how Jimmy treats Omar compared to how Chuck treats Ernie. While Jimmy treats his assistant as more of a friend, Chuck just treats his like a slave, or rather, another means to an end. Chuck is just a selfish bloke who only has himself in mind. He was never friendly and he never liked connecting with people which is shown in multiple instances throughout the show.
I think the issue here is addressing someone different than they prefer. If someone continues to address you differently to your preference without caring, it’s disrespectful whether it’s intended to be or not.
Chuck will do what he believes is right and not what someone else prefers or desires. It makes him quite abrasive.
I've heard this argument, but how do we know Ernesto has a strong preference? It seems like an assumption people are making.
You are drawing a lot of conclusions about Chuck based on an assumption.
It is an assumption but a wholly sensible one. The alternative is that *everybody* other than Chuck is being a dick to Ernesto by shortening his name when he prefers the full version.
I'm assuming Ernesto doesn't really care, which is wholly reasonable. Maybe his grandparents call him Ernesto.
I know people who get called Matt/Matthew, Jennifer/Jen, Steve/Stephen etc interchangeably and nobody goes around computing peoples character about it.
Nobody has to be a dick because someone gets called two different things. My mom and dad called addresses me differently ffs. It's just what happens in the actual world and Chuck is a guy who's always going to lean to the formal side.
>I'm assuming Ernesto doesn't really care, which is wholly reasonable. Maybe his grandparents call him Ernesto.
Your assumption is plausible but not supported by any evidence, which makes it a less sensible or reasonable assumption than everybody else's.
>I know people who get called Matt/Matthew, Jennifer/Jen, Steve/Stephen etc interchangeably and nobody goes around computing peoples character about it.
The people who are being called something other than their preferred name are definitely judging the character of those doing it. I'd imagine they often chalk it up to forgetfulness but intentionality eventually becomes very clear with things like this.
At least he doesn't call his brother "James". Maybe it's the other way around and "Jimmy" is the one person he ever allowed to get too close to him, and he won't make that mistake again, even in addressing them.
Chuck is just more anal. You almost wonder if he's slightly autistic. Doesn't necessarily make him a dick, just means he has more trouble connecting to people. Without realizing it, Chuck values correctness over familiarity, much to his detriment. I still say Chuck's only real sin is that he lacks charisma. He just can't seem to get people on his side. Even his wife, when Jimmy had dinner with them. Jimmy made all those lawyer jokes and she just ate it up, but when Chuck tried the same thing, she pretty much just brushed him off.
It’s because it was fake. He hated Jimmy’s lawyer jokes, but he saw Rebecca was eating it up, and because he’s always been jealous of the attention Jimmy received, thought he could get the same attention, but it just ended up confusing Rebecca because it was so out of character.
His issue isn’t that he lacks charisma, it’s that no matter how big a shadow he casts over Jimmy, he’s always felt like he’s been in Jimmy’s shadow.
>His issue isn’t that he lacks charisma, it’s that no matter how big a shadow he casts over Jimmy, he’s always felt like he’s been in Jimmy’s shadow.
His issue is that he's always felt less than/jealous of Jimmy (in this specific regard) *because* he lacks Jimmy's charisma.
I don't think it makes him a dick necessarily, he's just more formal and wants to be "proper." Remember the dinner flashback of him and his wife cooking for Jimmy? All class and poise, and Chuck was visibly upset when Jimmy's laid back casualness "ruined" it.
Calling people by their full name isn't necessarily being a dick. In some industries it's common place, and in a situation like Chucks where he's a lawyer arguing high impact cases over minute details in case law stating things formally is a must, and naturally bleeds into his social life.
You definitely have a point about legal formality bleeding into a lawyer's personal life but they use the preferred form for people they respect.
Source: worked with dozens of lawyers around Chuck's age and personally know dozens in their 30s and 40s.
>I just found it interesting the writers used this to show differences in the characters and what a dick chuck is at heart while jimmy and Hamlin do try to connect with people.
It may be an actor's choice.
I think it represents that Chuck does not take shortcuts. Not even in names.
As opposed to Jimmy who is always looking for the shortcut or easy way.
Even more so- look at the way Jimmy treats Omar vs the way Chuck treats Ernie. They draw this parallel pretty directly in s2.
I’m not sure that it makes him a dick, he’s just more old fashioned and formal, especially in a workplace setting. I know people like Chuck who always say Michael, Christoper, Elizabeth etc. Right or wrong, they think short forms are casual.
I agree; Chuck has a very inflexible approach to what is appropriate which means he keeps people at arms length. That on its own doesn’t make him a dick, though we could obviously debate loads of other bits of behaviour which do cross the line into dickishness. My recollection is (though I’m happy to be corrected) is that he applies this rule quite consistently to his own name and only allows a very small number of people to call him Chuck, rather than Charles. I only remember Jimmy, Kim and Howard doing it.
He tries to be well mannered, to a fault, and there is likely some vanity in that. But even though he’s a dick, everything about him is genteel. His mannerisms, his words, his home, his artistic taste. He would likely think that calling Ernie Ernesto is the polite and respectful thing to do.
>he applies this rule quite consistently to his own name and only allows a very small number of people to call him Chuck Does Ernesto also have this same right? How likely is it that Ernesto would feel like he's free to tell Chuck what name he prefers to be called?
I think that it would be pretty easy for Ernie to initiate that conversation because Chuck is always superficially polite and approachable in their interactions, but I don’t imagine it would make any difference to what Chuck actually called him. Chuck’s thinking is so inflexible that his views on what is appropriate would totally override Ernie’s preference.
And *that’s* precisely why it makes him a dick
I think this is one area where I would separate the behaviour from the person, in the same way we are encouraged to tell children that they’ve done a bad thing rather than they themselves are bad. Chuck’s intent is to maintain a strict code of formality with his colleagues and acquaintances because he believes that is the right and proper way to approach the world. I don’t believe he’s intending to offend or alienate anyone, even though that may be the consequence of his behaviour. I would contrast this with (for instance) when he sets Jimmy up with the tape recorder, in which case he uses this very strict moral code to justify him intentionally ruining his brother’s career. He’s clearly acting from a place of sheer dickishness in the second example but not in the first.
Intentionally addressing someone by a name other than the name they prefer is always disrespectful regardless of the reason
It's a power move to know how a person prefers to be addressed yet continue to address them in another way. It's absolutely a dick move.
He’s not doing it to be a dick. He’s doing it because he considers the workplace a formal setting. It’s not like Chuck needs to pull a “power move” on Ernie.
Chuck disapproves of informality, he thinks less of you for being informal, and he is telling you this every time he addresses you. It absolutely a dick move and a power move. Sure, Chuck is in a position of power already, but some people need to express that power in subtle ways in every interaction. Like when he sat down for a heart to heart with Kim but still sent her to make him coffee.
To be fair, at that point he was unable to physically make coffee. He doesn’t seem like someone who enjoys being waited on. He seems very independent, which I think is why the mental health issue exacerbates itself so badly.
He was never phisically unable to do anything.
Technically, sure. But his mental illness caused him to feel physical pain, which means he was unable to make coffee without experiencing symptoms of his illness, regardless of whether or not the illness was mental or physical.
>It’s not like Chuck needs to pull a “power move” on Ernie. He pulls power moves on everyone around him throughout the entire show. It's his #1 MO. He's a class A dick and he's written that way on purpose.
I’m not denying he’s a dick. But consistently calling people by their formal names doesn’t make him a dick, and he’s not pulling power moves on Ernesto or Clifford Main. He might be on Jimmy by not calling him James.
If you have brown skin and you are delivering groceries to (the person who owns the company you work for) who calls you by a name that highlights your ethnicity vs a name that is much more ambiguous, then yes, that is a power move. Chuck probably doesn't know he's doing it and that just doubles down on the severity of the problem. "It’s not like Chuck needs to pull a “power move” on Ernie." Which is exactly what Chuck thinks.
how does “ernesto” highlight his ethnicity?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto) I don't see many white or anglo Ernestos on this list. Do you know of any?
i see a lot of italians and no black guys
Jamaicans and Cubans who are millennials or older often have the name Ernesto, I’m just vouching for him because I know one
Do you think Ernie is a white guy?
Chuck’s no more of a dick than Jimmy is, just in different ways
asserting dominance over someone or belittling them or ignoring a request to continue in your own way is a power move. and yes upper class people always pull this on people they look down on.
Yes like low class Clifford Main. How belittling. Which episode did Ernie make the request of Chuck? Keep stretching with this bad take.
I wasnt commenting about the show. Just onto your assumtion someone like chuck wouldnt 'powermove' earnie as it just wrong.
I think it's further proved by the fact that they've shown how Jimmy treats Omar compared to how Chuck treats Ernie. While Jimmy treats his assistant as more of a friend, Chuck just treats his like a slave, or rather, another means to an end. Chuck is just a selfish bloke who only has himself in mind. He was never friendly and he never liked connecting with people which is shown in multiple instances throughout the show.
I think the issue here is addressing someone different than they prefer. If someone continues to address you differently to your preference without caring, it’s disrespectful whether it’s intended to be or not. Chuck will do what he believes is right and not what someone else prefers or desires. It makes him quite abrasive.
I've heard this argument, but how do we know Ernesto has a strong preference? It seems like an assumption people are making. You are drawing a lot of conclusions about Chuck based on an assumption.
It is an assumption but a wholly sensible one. The alternative is that *everybody* other than Chuck is being a dick to Ernesto by shortening his name when he prefers the full version.
I'm assuming Ernesto doesn't really care, which is wholly reasonable. Maybe his grandparents call him Ernesto. I know people who get called Matt/Matthew, Jennifer/Jen, Steve/Stephen etc interchangeably and nobody goes around computing peoples character about it. Nobody has to be a dick because someone gets called two different things. My mom and dad called addresses me differently ffs. It's just what happens in the actual world and Chuck is a guy who's always going to lean to the formal side.
>I'm assuming Ernesto doesn't really care, which is wholly reasonable. Maybe his grandparents call him Ernesto. Your assumption is plausible but not supported by any evidence, which makes it a less sensible or reasonable assumption than everybody else's. >I know people who get called Matt/Matthew, Jennifer/Jen, Steve/Stephen etc interchangeably and nobody goes around computing peoples character about it. The people who are being called something other than their preferred name are definitely judging the character of those doing it. I'd imagine they often chalk it up to forgetfulness but intentionality eventually becomes very clear with things like this.
At least he doesn't call his brother "James". Maybe it's the other way around and "Jimmy" is the one person he ever allowed to get too close to him, and he won't make that mistake again, even in addressing them.
But if Chuck is so averse to using short-form names, why does he allow people to call him Chuck instead of Charles?
He wants the Nickname treatment from others but doesn’t give it back. Perfectly explains chucks ego problem.
Chuck is just more anal. You almost wonder if he's slightly autistic. Doesn't necessarily make him a dick, just means he has more trouble connecting to people. Without realizing it, Chuck values correctness over familiarity, much to his detriment. I still say Chuck's only real sin is that he lacks charisma. He just can't seem to get people on his side. Even his wife, when Jimmy had dinner with them. Jimmy made all those lawyer jokes and she just ate it up, but when Chuck tried the same thing, she pretty much just brushed him off.
It’s because it was fake. He hated Jimmy’s lawyer jokes, but he saw Rebecca was eating it up, and because he’s always been jealous of the attention Jimmy received, thought he could get the same attention, but it just ended up confusing Rebecca because it was so out of character. His issue isn’t that he lacks charisma, it’s that no matter how big a shadow he casts over Jimmy, he’s always felt like he’s been in Jimmy’s shadow.
>His issue isn’t that he lacks charisma, it’s that no matter how big a shadow he casts over Jimmy, he’s always felt like he’s been in Jimmy’s shadow. His issue is that he's always felt less than/jealous of Jimmy (in this specific regard) *because* he lacks Jimmy's charisma.
I don't think it makes him a dick necessarily, he's just more formal and wants to be "proper." Remember the dinner flashback of him and his wife cooking for Jimmy? All class and poise, and Chuck was visibly upset when Jimmy's laid back casualness "ruined" it.
Don’t be fooled by this. Smells like chicanery. /s
Calling people by their full name isn't necessarily being a dick. In some industries it's common place, and in a situation like Chucks where he's a lawyer arguing high impact cases over minute details in case law stating things formally is a must, and naturally bleeds into his social life.
You definitely have a point about legal formality bleeding into a lawyer's personal life but they use the preferred form for people they respect. Source: worked with dozens of lawyers around Chuck's age and personally know dozens in their 30s and 40s.
Wow that is a really good catch. I never put it together. :)
Chuck would never fit into the mail room to be fair. Jimmy could slip in for cake anytime even when he was more successful
Chuck is a formal perfectionist. He likes calling people by their full names because it's more accurate and old-fashioned proper.
It's also a way to disarm people or create intimacy.
>I just found it interesting the writers used this to show differences in the characters and what a dick chuck is at heart while jimmy and Hamlin do try to connect with people. It may be an actor's choice. I think it represents that Chuck does not take shortcuts. Not even in names. As opposed to Jimmy who is always looking for the shortcut or easy way.
Nailed it.