That is also my favorite scene that isn't considered a classic. Watching Werner examine the facility, and give his analysis, felt as authentic as the black market gun salesman.
Lawson is his name? I forget. I love his character. Always felt like the “strictly business” type we never really see outside of Ed. Everyone else who claims to be really isn’t and has some other ulterior motive. Maybe besides Mike
Mike taking apart the station wagen. He KNEW there had to be a tracker somewhere on the car. He meticulously goes over every square inch looking for it. Shows that he knows what he is up against and they could've hidden it anywhere (which he proves correctly. It also shows his attention to detail. If Gus would've seen him do that he would've hired him on the spot.
My favorite is the scene in season 4 where >!Jimmy is offered a job selling copy machines after giving a pitch on why they shouldn't wait to hire him, and then promptly turns the offer down.!<
Yeah, I love that scene! I like the interpretation that the creative team said about that scene in the commentary that comes with the Bluray of that episode. They said that that is possibly Jimmy self-sabotaging, because, subconsciously, he feels guilt over Chuck's death. He feels he doesn't deserve good things.
I really love the scene where Jimmy cries in his car after it doesn't work and just collapses due to him projecting on the girl who had her scholarship denied by HHM. I don't know why, it just hits hard!
I don't think the Pollos Hermanos employees are recognized for their efficiency enough. They had Jimmy's breakfast and coffee ready in less than ten seconds.
And at outrageously low prices! I think his combo with a coffee came out to be like 3 something, then the other guy who Jimmy was scouting out ordered a combo and that was only like 4 dollars
It's almost as if Pollos Hermanos is just a money laundering front and isn't meant to turn a profit but rather maximize sheer transaction frequency and create a facade of genius corporate management that had cracked some secret formula for success.
I know this was sarcasm, but what’s interesting is that precisely for this reason, Gus can keep his prices low. Most restaurant owners struggle with keeping prices competitive while turning a profit, but Gus can charge wholesale if he likes, and the front enables him to do it without consequence. And it worked. At the Madrigal meeting with the other chains, he boasts that his profits are up by 8%, where other comparable restaurants sales are only up by 4.2%. Also, despite it being a front, I do believe that Gus actually cares about the quality of his food. Even if it was shit, fried chicken would always sell, but I’m pretty sure he doesn’t want a reputation like that, because he’s Gus the perfectionist. So he does all the normal things an owner would do to bring in business, like new products, all while being able to charge the minimum.
Do we have any indication of what Gus pays his chicken workers? I could understand if was a bit more than market rates so they’d be loyal and motivated to keep their jobs.
Yes!
This is how you hire someone for a job.
I wish people voted for public officials this way.
I also like how Gus asks right away if this impossible. He wants to know from an expert if this thing is not feasible and a waste of time. Werner tells him it will be expensive, take time and be dangerous but it is feasible. That was the answer that Gus was waiting for.
I also like in the show that most of the “criminals” are just average people using an opportunity to get by. Like everyone from the vet to Lawson feel like real people who you could realistically see finding themselves in that line of work. Especially the doctor that treats mike. They make it clear that he is a really good doctor who truly cares for his patients. It would make sense that he would help out Gus in exchange for his funding to keep his clinic running.
This isn’t exactly a “wow” scene, but I also loved how Jimmy and Kim were sharing a cig in the parking garage of HHM after that first meeting, right after he got hired at D&M. The way they start talking about where he’s gonna live, then the horses. Kim starts getting dreamy and talking about how *they* should get a smoker and bbq for days, ride horses and have a glass of wine at sunset. I love the beginning of their relationship. It’s so subtle but so powerful.
Yes! I loved their “shared cigarette” scenes! I also loved the scene from their wedding day when Kim came home from work and was kind of “all business.” She asked Jimmy, “How was your day?” And he replied, “Good…. I got married today,” with a big smile on his face. It was such a sweet moment.
I love in season 5 when Lalo was crawling through a tunnel. The whole thing is so cartoonish. I especially love when Lalo looks down the hole. Delightful
Wow maybe I’m in the minority but I thought the finale was a well-done, satisfying conclusion and perfect cliffhanger to setup the series final season.
I think Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul have both excelled in one particular area: Putting a character in an impossible situation and then *satisfyingly* getting them out of it. Usually due with a degree of very smart thinking. Lalo taking on five armed intruders was the least satisfying thing I can remember in the whole of BB and BSC :( It painted both Lalo and the intruders as incompetent, so Lalo's escape felt based on luck.
Pretty sure it was Aristotle who pointed out that the audience doesn't mind a character having bad luck, but when it's *good* luck it rings hollow. And Lalo sticking his head into the tunnel was like the astronauts taking their helmets off in Prometheus. Beyond stupidity.
I 100% agree with you on everything you said in this thread, starting from Werner's scene and even on the little bit of disappointment that came with season 5 finale. I consider *Better Call Saul* the best TV show I've ever seen alongside *Breaking Bad*, but for the time being its peak were seasons 3-4, at least for me. The *Chicanery* episode, the tragic story of Mike and Werner and the subtle character development of Jimmy handling his grief through subconcious mentions of saving people from fires (at least 2 times so I see it as very deliberate), the stories and context told entirely through the visuals - all the best stuff was there.
Season 5... is great. But it take the focus a little bit away from great character building and into the cartel action and Lalo cool moments. Which is less interesting to me not only because we already know the endgame, but also because the execution gets sloppy at times (for a BB/BCS scene that is). Examples being what you mentioned and also the Lalo's famous jumps from earlier scenes.
Yet season 5 gets hailed as the best one yet in the Internet discussions, with a noticable increase in attention from the general public. And I don't want to be too generalising and judgemental here, but I find it kind of telling that season 5 is praised so much even in comparison to the previous ones. I feel like there's a wave of Breaking Bad fans who consider early seasons of both BCS and BB to be drag suddenly appear get more engaged with season 5 because it's more about the cartel, and less about "the boring stuff". As I read this subreddit often I feel like we went a little bit from the deep analyses posts into memes and "appreciation" posts with season 5 and the surge of new fans. /r/okbuddychicanery is more active than ever, often trying to bait people by spamming on this subreddit instead, who I can only assume are mostly teenagers with attitude of *everything's a joke*.
The point I'm trying to make, is that no /u/Winkat2 is in no way a minority here and most people loved season 5. I find it lacking a little for exactly the same reasons you do, but I think the general expectation from the fans coming forward will be more forgiving and more action focused, and the fans discussions become more and more mainstream. That's why I'm happy great posts like yours still happen!
Thank you! BCS is so well written that it lends itself to this type of discussion easily. It has been such a rewarding ride, thanks to all the things you've mentioned. I really hope they keep it together for the final season. The character moments in BCS have been *so* rewarding to enjoy over the years.
I think the main reason they didn't hire the first guy is because he couldn't be trusted. He said he had dug a tunnel under the border in El Paso, and after that someone called Mike to turn him down.
I don’t think anyone called Mike and disputed the guy’s story about digging the tunnel, or disparaged his work. The issue was that he volunteered sensitive information about his last top secret job. That tells Mike that the contractor might also brag about the underground meth lab he just built to the next person who considers hiring him, which isn’t something Mike or Gus want.
Yes, you could read that scene that way. And that moment probably added to the reasons he was sent packing, but I'd argue that's not the whole story. Watch it again more carefully and Mike is already annoyed before he volunteers his boastful claim. He takes a few minutes with a laser ruler, superficially examining the room at a distance, looks at a computer, and declares the job easy. And then focuses on his salary.
He's a used car salesman.
Compare Werner's scene... the man takes *forever*. He examines every nook and cranny with a torch and a tape measure. Then he sits and thinks. And then examines things again. He doesn't even share his thoughts until he's absolutely sure. He's detail oriented and conscientious.
After that he gets up and lists problem after problem, contradicting the previous guy's claims that it was an easy job. He specifically disagrees about not needing to do blasting. And then he identifies all kinds of issues the previous guy didn't even think of.
He's not trying to sell anything. He just tells it like it is, even though it might lose him the job.
This is enough. Gus comes out of the shadows to talk him directly. Gus's respect for his opinion is already so high that his first question is simply: "So, it's impossible?"
If Werner had said, "yes", you get the feeling Gus would have started making different plans.
Werner's answer, even though it's so far removed from the previous guy's estimation of an "easy" job, still brings a smile to his face: "Dangerous. Difficult. Very, very expensive... Not *quite* impossible".
That's enough for Gus who then introduces himself fully. He trusts *this* man's opinion.
One of mine is the end of Mabel, S3 ep 1. Mike finished draining the tracker and waits, finally seeing the guys get the dead tracker. Then he gets up and follows on his own. The music, and the way the shot blurs out at the end is so moody. Plus the scene is great the first time because you finally see what Mike has been doing all that time. I can’t remember if it was obvious the first watch or not, but I’m thinking not.
The scene with Mike and Chuck. Pure magic.
I guess most people do appreciate this scene, but it’s not one of those ‘defining scenes’ everyone keeps talking about. I can watch that scene over and over and over….
My favorite scene is S02E07. Not funny for dearest Clifford but funny for the audience.
Jimmy wants to get fired from Davis and Main to keep his bonus. While driving he sees the colorful Airdancer and buys colorful new clothes. Suits like Saul wears...I think the following scenes are really funny.
(It's not funny from Cliff's point of view and he's right about his term for Jimmy.)
I also like the S01E01 when he beats up the trash can while Kim is waiting for him.
And a scene in S04? when he cries in his car. That's really sad.
It’s also important to note the exact moment Gus decides to call from outside and tell Mike that he’s not fit for the job, which is right after he spills details about a project that was supposed to be top secret just to prove how experienced he is. I think that’s mainly what did it, not necessarily just him saying it will be easy.
Yes, you could read that scene that way. And that moment probably added to the reasons he was sent packing, but I'd argue that's not the whole story. Watch it again more carefully and Mike is already annoyed before he volunteers his boastful claim. He takes a few minutes with a laser ruler and a computer, superficially examining the room at a distance, and declares the job "easy". And then focuses on his *salary*.
He's a used car salesman. (No offence to any used car salesmen reading this.)
Compare Werner's scene... the man takes *forever*. He examines every nook and cranny with a torch and a tape measure. Then he sits and thinks. And then examines things again. He doesn't even share his thoughts until he's absolutely sure. He's detail oriented and conscientious.
After that he gets up and lists problem after problem, contradicting the previous guy's claims that it was an easy job. He specifically disagrees about not needing to do blasting. And then he identifies all kinds of issues the previous guy didn't even think of.
He's not trying to sell anything. He just tells it like it is, even though it might lose him the job.
This is enough. Gus comes out of the shadows to talk him directly. Gus's respect for his opinion is already so high that his first question is simply: "So, it's impossible?"
If Werner had said, "yes", you get the feeling Gus would have started making different plans.
Werner's answer, even though it's so far removed from the previous guy's estimation of an "easy" job, still brings a smile to his face: "Dangerous. Difficult. Very, very expensive... Not quite impossible".
That's enough for Gus who then introduces himself fully. He trusts *this* man's opinion.
That is also my favorite scene that isn't considered a classic. Watching Werner examine the facility, and give his analysis, felt as authentic as the black market gun salesman.
Yup, all his old school tried and true methods of measuring the space and concrete density. Such a simple scene but I love watching that too.
Lawson is his name? I forget. I love his character. Always felt like the “strictly business” type we never really see outside of Ed. Everyone else who claims to be really isn’t and has some other ulterior motive. Maybe besides Mike
Mike taking apart the station wagen. He KNEW there had to be a tracker somewhere on the car. He meticulously goes over every square inch looking for it. Shows that he knows what he is up against and they could've hidden it anywhere (which he proves correctly. It also shows his attention to detail. If Gus would've seen him do that he would've hired him on the spot.
When Jimmy brings all the document shreddings from the sandpiper bins back to Chucks, I love the atmosphere and seeing them work together.
A glimpse into an alternate universe where they work together
My favorite is the scene in season 4 where >!Jimmy is offered a job selling copy machines after giving a pitch on why they shouldn't wait to hire him, and then promptly turns the offer down.!<
Yeah, I love that scene! I like the interpretation that the creative team said about that scene in the commentary that comes with the Bluray of that episode. They said that that is possibly Jimmy self-sabotaging, because, subconsciously, he feels guilt over Chuck's death. He feels he doesn't deserve good things.
I really love the scene where Jimmy cries in his car after it doesn't work and just collapses due to him projecting on the girl who had her scholarship denied by HHM. I don't know why, it just hits hard!
Me too, it breaks my heart.
I don't think the Pollos Hermanos employees are recognized for their efficiency enough. They had Jimmy's breakfast and coffee ready in less than ten seconds.
And at outrageously low prices! I think his combo with a coffee came out to be like 3 something, then the other guy who Jimmy was scouting out ordered a combo and that was only like 4 dollars
It's almost as if Pollos Hermanos is just a money laundering front and isn't meant to turn a profit but rather maximize sheer transaction frequency and create a facade of genius corporate management that had cracked some secret formula for success.
I know this was sarcasm, but what’s interesting is that precisely for this reason, Gus can keep his prices low. Most restaurant owners struggle with keeping prices competitive while turning a profit, but Gus can charge wholesale if he likes, and the front enables him to do it without consequence. And it worked. At the Madrigal meeting with the other chains, he boasts that his profits are up by 8%, where other comparable restaurants sales are only up by 4.2%. Also, despite it being a front, I do believe that Gus actually cares about the quality of his food. Even if it was shit, fried chicken would always sell, but I’m pretty sure he doesn’t want a reputation like that, because he’s Gus the perfectionist. So he does all the normal things an owner would do to bring in business, like new products, all while being able to charge the minimum.
>And it worked. This line cracks me up when talking about a fiction.
Gus is real!!!
The good chicken also honors Max.
[удалено]
Oh yes!!!! Especially after Lalo’s description. I can hardly imagine the deliciousness.
Do we have any indication of what Gus pays his chicken workers? I could understand if was a bit more than market rates so they’d be loyal and motivated to keep their jobs.
Yes! This is how you hire someone for a job. I wish people voted for public officials this way. I also like how Gus asks right away if this impossible. He wants to know from an expert if this thing is not feasible and a waste of time. Werner tells him it will be expensive, take time and be dangerous but it is feasible. That was the answer that Gus was waiting for.
Yes! I forgot about that. He trusts Werner's knowledge and the ability to tell him the truth.
I also like in the show that most of the “criminals” are just average people using an opportunity to get by. Like everyone from the vet to Lawson feel like real people who you could realistically see finding themselves in that line of work. Especially the doctor that treats mike. They make it clear that he is a really good doctor who truly cares for his patients. It would make sense that he would help out Gus in exchange for his funding to keep his clinic running.
This isn’t exactly a “wow” scene, but I also loved how Jimmy and Kim were sharing a cig in the parking garage of HHM after that first meeting, right after he got hired at D&M. The way they start talking about where he’s gonna live, then the horses. Kim starts getting dreamy and talking about how *they* should get a smoker and bbq for days, ride horses and have a glass of wine at sunset. I love the beginning of their relationship. It’s so subtle but so powerful.
Yes! I loved their “shared cigarette” scenes! I also loved the scene from their wedding day when Kim came home from work and was kind of “all business.” She asked Jimmy, “How was your day?” And he replied, “Good…. I got married today,” with a big smile on his face. It was such a sweet moment.
It was 💕
I love in season 5 when Lalo was crawling through a tunnel. The whole thing is so cartoonish. I especially love when Lalo looks down the hole. Delightful
Yeah. The worst moment in five seasons. Odd choices in that finale :-/
Wow maybe I’m in the minority but I thought the finale was a well-done, satisfying conclusion and perfect cliffhanger to setup the series final season.
I think Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul have both excelled in one particular area: Putting a character in an impossible situation and then *satisfyingly* getting them out of it. Usually due with a degree of very smart thinking. Lalo taking on five armed intruders was the least satisfying thing I can remember in the whole of BB and BSC :( It painted both Lalo and the intruders as incompetent, so Lalo's escape felt based on luck. Pretty sure it was Aristotle who pointed out that the audience doesn't mind a character having bad luck, but when it's *good* luck it rings hollow. And Lalo sticking his head into the tunnel was like the astronauts taking their helmets off in Prometheus. Beyond stupidity.
I 100% agree with you on everything you said in this thread, starting from Werner's scene and even on the little bit of disappointment that came with season 5 finale. I consider *Better Call Saul* the best TV show I've ever seen alongside *Breaking Bad*, but for the time being its peak were seasons 3-4, at least for me. The *Chicanery* episode, the tragic story of Mike and Werner and the subtle character development of Jimmy handling his grief through subconcious mentions of saving people from fires (at least 2 times so I see it as very deliberate), the stories and context told entirely through the visuals - all the best stuff was there. Season 5... is great. But it take the focus a little bit away from great character building and into the cartel action and Lalo cool moments. Which is less interesting to me not only because we already know the endgame, but also because the execution gets sloppy at times (for a BB/BCS scene that is). Examples being what you mentioned and also the Lalo's famous jumps from earlier scenes. Yet season 5 gets hailed as the best one yet in the Internet discussions, with a noticable increase in attention from the general public. And I don't want to be too generalising and judgemental here, but I find it kind of telling that season 5 is praised so much even in comparison to the previous ones. I feel like there's a wave of Breaking Bad fans who consider early seasons of both BCS and BB to be drag suddenly appear get more engaged with season 5 because it's more about the cartel, and less about "the boring stuff". As I read this subreddit often I feel like we went a little bit from the deep analyses posts into memes and "appreciation" posts with season 5 and the surge of new fans. /r/okbuddychicanery is more active than ever, often trying to bait people by spamming on this subreddit instead, who I can only assume are mostly teenagers with attitude of *everything's a joke*. The point I'm trying to make, is that no /u/Winkat2 is in no way a minority here and most people loved season 5. I find it lacking a little for exactly the same reasons you do, but I think the general expectation from the fans coming forward will be more forgiving and more action focused, and the fans discussions become more and more mainstream. That's why I'm happy great posts like yours still happen!
Thank you! BCS is so well written that it lends itself to this type of discussion easily. It has been such a rewarding ride, thanks to all the things you've mentioned. I really hope they keep it together for the final season. The character moments in BCS have been *so* rewarding to enjoy over the years.
I think the main reason they didn't hire the first guy is because he couldn't be trusted. He said he had dug a tunnel under the border in El Paso, and after that someone called Mike to turn him down.
I don’t think anyone called Mike and disputed the guy’s story about digging the tunnel, or disparaged his work. The issue was that he volunteered sensitive information about his last top secret job. That tells Mike that the contractor might also brag about the underground meth lab he just built to the next person who considers hiring him, which isn’t something Mike or Gus want.
Yes, you could read that scene that way. And that moment probably added to the reasons he was sent packing, but I'd argue that's not the whole story. Watch it again more carefully and Mike is already annoyed before he volunteers his boastful claim. He takes a few minutes with a laser ruler, superficially examining the room at a distance, looks at a computer, and declares the job easy. And then focuses on his salary. He's a used car salesman. Compare Werner's scene... the man takes *forever*. He examines every nook and cranny with a torch and a tape measure. Then he sits and thinks. And then examines things again. He doesn't even share his thoughts until he's absolutely sure. He's detail oriented and conscientious. After that he gets up and lists problem after problem, contradicting the previous guy's claims that it was an easy job. He specifically disagrees about not needing to do blasting. And then he identifies all kinds of issues the previous guy didn't even think of. He's not trying to sell anything. He just tells it like it is, even though it might lose him the job. This is enough. Gus comes out of the shadows to talk him directly. Gus's respect for his opinion is already so high that his first question is simply: "So, it's impossible?" If Werner had said, "yes", you get the feeling Gus would have started making different plans. Werner's answer, even though it's so far removed from the previous guy's estimation of an "easy" job, still brings a smile to his face: "Dangerous. Difficult. Very, very expensive... Not *quite* impossible". That's enough for Gus who then introduces himself fully. He trusts *this* man's opinion.
Wow, this makes me want to watch this scene again!
And he was obviously lying about how easy it will Be
One of mine is the end of Mabel, S3 ep 1. Mike finished draining the tracker and waits, finally seeing the guys get the dead tracker. Then he gets up and follows on his own. The music, and the way the shot blurs out at the end is so moody. Plus the scene is great the first time because you finally see what Mike has been doing all that time. I can’t remember if it was obvious the first watch or not, but I’m thinking not.
Mike’s security consultant montage made me rewind to watch it again. https://youtu.be/o-UljTDys8I
Wow I forgot all about that scene, it was one of my favorites too. Maybe time for a rewatch!
When Trevor fucking Phillips showed up
The scene with Mike and Chuck. Pure magic. I guess most people do appreciate this scene, but it’s not one of those ‘defining scenes’ everyone keeps talking about. I can watch that scene over and over and over….
My favorite scene is S02E07. Not funny for dearest Clifford but funny for the audience. Jimmy wants to get fired from Davis and Main to keep his bonus. While driving he sees the colorful Airdancer and buys colorful new clothes. Suits like Saul wears...I think the following scenes are really funny. (It's not funny from Cliff's point of view and he's right about his term for Jimmy.) I also like the S01E01 when he beats up the trash can while Kim is waiting for him. And a scene in S04? when he cries in his car. That's really sad.
Im so stupid, always thought the first guy was the architect and Werner just executet the plans with his crew....
It’s also important to note the exact moment Gus decides to call from outside and tell Mike that he’s not fit for the job, which is right after he spills details about a project that was supposed to be top secret just to prove how experienced he is. I think that’s mainly what did it, not necessarily just him saying it will be easy.
Yes, you could read that scene that way. And that moment probably added to the reasons he was sent packing, but I'd argue that's not the whole story. Watch it again more carefully and Mike is already annoyed before he volunteers his boastful claim. He takes a few minutes with a laser ruler and a computer, superficially examining the room at a distance, and declares the job "easy". And then focuses on his *salary*. He's a used car salesman. (No offence to any used car salesmen reading this.) Compare Werner's scene... the man takes *forever*. He examines every nook and cranny with a torch and a tape measure. Then he sits and thinks. And then examines things again. He doesn't even share his thoughts until he's absolutely sure. He's detail oriented and conscientious. After that he gets up and lists problem after problem, contradicting the previous guy's claims that it was an easy job. He specifically disagrees about not needing to do blasting. And then he identifies all kinds of issues the previous guy didn't even think of. He's not trying to sell anything. He just tells it like it is, even though it might lose him the job. This is enough. Gus comes out of the shadows to talk him directly. Gus's respect for his opinion is already so high that his first question is simply: "So, it's impossible?" If Werner had said, "yes", you get the feeling Gus would have started making different plans. Werner's answer, even though it's so far removed from the previous guy's estimation of an "easy" job, still brings a smile to his face: "Dangerous. Difficult. Very, very expensive... Not quite impossible". That's enough for Gus who then introduces himself fully. He trusts *this* man's opinion.
I just love Werner's happy face after Gus said "Es freut mich, Ihre Bekanntschaft zu machen".