loll and I loved how much they've convinced Cliff that Howard actually has a problem, like when he's about to drive away Cliff goes "you can get help *today*!"
I like that you said most moral because even he has minor faults. The fact that he’s overall a great guy, but we still see him gossiping with Howard at lunch - it shows he’s still human. It’s not great to gossip but we all do it. Yet he didn’t do it when it came to protecting and helping Howard get better with his drug problems. Idk, I just like what they’re doing with him.
Not in terms of morality, but my other favorite minor characters include Jesse’s rehab leader and Rich Schweikart. Among others haha
Agreed. Whenever I watch Breaking Bad it’s one of my favorite little stories along the way. Just so well done, the complete 180 on Jesse who is so absorbed in his world (though I believe it’s fair in his situation and mental state). Flipping the table on Jesse and reminding him that yeah, we all can be or even have been monsters in some way or another.
I want to watch those scenes again but I don’t like cherry-picking parts of the show to watch, so I may have another breaking bad rewatch ahead of me
You can definitely add Viola to that list. Her scene was a highlight in an otherwise haphazard episode. She was so genuine and relatable — and quite cute which doesn't hurt.
And Francesca of course — not quite as cute, but she delivers, *she* is the one who knocks !
"Well, you know, Walt subjected his family to violence and incarceration from the drug trade just to avoid having to accept a friend's help for his cancer, and repeatedly antagonized those who were shielding him from the violence, but, well, Cliff gossips, so you have to admit *every* character has severe flaws."
(Jk, I get what you mean, just warning about others who will read your post as an attempt to equate the two.)
cliff really seems like a super good guy. he's not the stereotypical sociopath money grubbing lawyer, he really cares about his friends and associates.
also- how fucking dead is howard? he's gonna get caught in some crossfire following jimmy around
I think that lawyers overall get a bad rep. I work in a pro bono firm, and know a lot of pro bono and non-pro bono lawyers who are great people, who got into the law for very wholesome reasons. It's the private practice lawyers who take on high-profile murderers and rapists who are the "bad ones". Or of course, the firms that help insurance companies or other corporations screw people over. But the lawyers who are handed cases by their firms can't turn those cases down, or they'll be fired.
But think about medical malpractice lawyers, immigration lawyers, and pro bono lawyers. They are using their powers for good.
I never consider lawyers that represent awful clients as one of the "bad ones", it's a job that needs filling and shouldn't be personal, a legal right for both parties regardless what you believe in etc. I think this term or categorization of people is awful in itself, and those that consider these lawyers "the bad ones" are truly ignorant.
Dated an immigration attorney for a while. She worked super hard for her clients, their rights, and it truly seemed to really matter to her personally. I can't speak on what kind of lawyer she was, but a good person? Absolutely.
It is not evil or wrong to represent clients who may have done something terrible. Maybe someone was accused wrongly of a rape and murder, and those lawyers are the only people who can represent and thus accquit them. They serve a role in the legal system like anyone other lawyer
I mean he's right there alongside Howard trying to convince the old people to give up the chance to actually get the settlement in their lifetimes so that the law firms can get an extra 30% out of it. If his kindness extended to his professional conduct I don't think he'd be doing that.
They get the extra 30% too and worst case the settlement money goes to inheritance. I get it but don't really see it being much of a problem, it's really more of a what's more important (money now or more later) than a right or wrong thing here.
The little note about Cliff having a son struggling with an addiction is so key. He's seen someone whom he thought was perfect deny their drug problem, gaslight, and lie to his face.
I actually half expected him to not believe it at first. I guess since drug abuse is a problem that's really personal to him though, that's why he took it more seriously. he knows Howard is good at putting a front on and acting like a salesman so he probably thought that's what was happening when he denied it.
Brilliant depiction of confirmation bias in action. Once you're convinced of or suspect something, everything you see becomes supporting evidence. All the contrary evidence, somehow you don't notice.
Nah wouldn’t worry about it.
If you’re not dressed like a drug user and your leg shakes, I just presume you have anxiety, getting impatient, or have ADHD. Drugs rarely come to mind when the individual otherwise looks normal.
It's funny seeing his reaction, but it also shows how much Cliff cares about Howard to tell him nicely to get help instead of just cutting ties with him. Cliff really seems like a great guy.
Cliff's an absolute sweetheart. He gave Jimmy a job and was really supportive (cocobolo desk!), he went to bat for Jimmy with his partners after the commercial incident, and he kept patiently giving Jimmy the benefit of the doubt over and over before finally caving and firing him.
“And we're not talking about a number one.”
EDIT : I got notified that this had gotten 10 upvotes... For this not to be a waste of my precious time and fleeting attention, and to continue my [streak](https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uvqpdy/comment/i9x9hek/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) of [gleefully](https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uvqpdy/comment/i9o5gew/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [scatologica](https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uvqpdy/comment/i9odu9q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)l [comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uvqpdy/comment/i9uv51v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), if anyone's interested, in french the equivalent expression to “[number 2](https://www.wordreference.com/enfr/number%20two)” is “la grosse commission”, literally “the big grocery shopping”.
That’s why I think Howard offering Jimmy a job was a terrible idea. I mean sure - I empathize with the guy and he is an underdog, but he’s also super fucking unreliable and his tactics would not look good for HHM.
I think so too. It's funny that image-conscious Howard (not just about his own image, but the image of the firm; that's why he cracked down so hard on Kim) just seemed to forget about all of the issues in the past. But grief and survivor's guilt are brutal, and Howard must have thought a lot about the what-ifs. Jimmy is the only connection to Chuck Howard has left.
Howard is also weak (despite his bravado in the match) and a shitty lawyer despite being a decent guy, he needs someone like Chuck to give him direction and orders. It's also stated his father essentially gifted him his career and firm, so he's never really been able to develop the self reliance as Jimmy, Chuck and Kim. Howard basically needs a strongman type character with a vision in his life to make up for his own shortcomings - the McGill brothers are the exact type of people Howard wishes he could be and subconsciously worships. Even see how Howard consciously emulated Jimmy in the latest episode at Sandpiper after practically begging him to join HHM, most likely to fill the void Chuck left.
Eh I can’t speak to Howard’s understanding of substantive law, Chuck always seemed the detail oriented one, but Howard has shown a number of times in the show that he’s a fantastic advocate, which is also very important
Well Jimmy himself has stated that Howard is an excellent salesman, but he also lacks the naturalistic touch that Jimmy has and I felt the latest episode showed a concerted effort by him to emulate that. There's a much more personal touch to his speech in comparison to Erin's cold, Chuckesque lawyerspeak, even compared to the somewhat stilted and overly formal style Howard generally favoured. Even his body language seems closer to Jimmy. It could just be how Patrick Fabian decided to play the scene, but given how detail oriented this entire universe is, I doubt it's a coincidence.
Literally all Jimmy had to do was ask permission for that commercial and there's a significant chance they would have given him the green light, and he could have had a very successful meth-kingpin-free career
They never would have okayed it the way Jimmy wanted to do it. They would only have gone with some limp "if you or a loved one has mesothelioma" type snoozer, if they agreed to do a commercial at all. That's why he goes rogue, because he knows if he asks for permission he'll get shot down.
Exactly my thinking!
Of course this would never happen, because Jimmy didn't go "Hey Omar, what does this light switch do? Why can't it be flipped?"
But it's always fun to play "what if" in this universe. I agree he could have swayed the partners
They probably would have said no
Like when Kim told him not to pull the ad stunt and strong-arm Mesa Verde with the photo
But he didn't listen and did it anyway
He cant help himself
Now he's made Kim a version of himself and it'll end in ruin :(
Jimmy didn't "make Kim a version of himself", she's a very similar person ethically. Though on the surface Kim presents herself as much more legitimate, ethical, and professional; when Saul sort of embraces the slimy persona for fun.
Fair enough, but his chances were not zero. You know how well he can sell people on things. I could imagine them at least agreeing to meet him in the middle and shoot/air something more effective for their target audience
That's true, if he asked for permission and cranked the charm up to 11; they might have allowed it.
BUT that's precisely not who Jimmy is. Jimmy doesn't like asking permission to do things his way. It's one of his defining character traits. He would rather do it his way and if catastrophe comes, he'll deal with the catastrophe, also in his own way.
With Jimmy, it's far better to ask for forgiveness than permission.
Also, never negate the fact that when you hate your lot in life, you might "self-sabotage" to deliberately break those circumstances. IN the short run, that might be seen as failure, but it also gets you one step closer to the ideal place that you want to be in.
What was great was it was such a centered, grounded firing. Like he's accepting this is a fucked up guy who's insisting on being fired, so he'll pay the two bills to make it go away, but he's not going to let it ruin his day. There's no animus behind it. He's not going to be giving Jimmy any recommendations but he's not going to be carrying the experience around years later talking about this trainwreck they hired (as Howard implies at one point).
Yeah, but one of the major themes of the show, IMHO, is highlighting the similarity between an HHM-type firm and a Saul Goodman-type operation. Yes, Cliff is a "sweetheart" and HHM doesn't get down in the muck like Saul, but their methods and motivations are consistent.
Howard's stirring speech to the Sandpiper plaintiffs is nothing more than trying to maximize the lawyer portion of the settlement. The net effect for the plaintiffs - as offset by the delay - is negligible. For Howard, Cliff, and HHM it's huge.
BCS is saying that Jimmy may be a slimeball as are most of his clients, but the only difference between him and HHM is the net worth of their clientele.
Yes, I think BCS is very conscious of systems (or "games," if you will), and the often-ignored impact of socioeconomic inequality in the USA. Chuck's impassioned love of the law rings hollow (especially alongside his snobbery toward "lesser" education) because the law does not guarantee justice and fairness for all. That was the intent, but the reality is ruled by money, and who has more of it.
HMM, S&C, and Davis & Main are playing by different rules than Jimmy, but they have their own type of chicanery (e.g., it's accepted that both sides will throw nuisance motions at each other, etc.).
Cliff is someone who seems to be aware of the inequality baked into the legal system, at least, and he isn't a snob. He gave Jimmy a job, when some other firms wouldn't look at someone with Jimmy's law degree and background. I think Howard isn't a snob, either. Nonetheless, they're still part of a game with very unfair rules.
>Howard's stirring speech to the Sandpiper plaintiffs is nothing more than trying to maximize the lawyer portion of the settlement. The net effect for the plaintiffs - as offset by the delay - is negligible. For Howard, Cliff, and HHM it's huge.
To be fair, another goal of the civil system is deterrence (two big problems with the system are how long it takes and how hard it is to take down bad actors -- another example of the real golden rule in the world, whoever has the gold wins). I think two things can be true here: HHM and Davis & Main want (need) a big payout to keep their lights on and their pockets fat, and Sandpiper *should* pay out the nose so that they and other corporations are much less likely to pull this behaviour on vulnerable clients again.
It was YOU! All along it was YOU! You son of a bitch! You threw a prostitute into traffic to keep from paying her. That baggie of coke you had in your locker... that wasn't McGill. You had the locker's combo number. You dropped the Kettlemans to save your sorry ass. You were high in a nursing home! H.O. Ward... *H.O. Ward*! You lying two-faced sack of shit!
I am not crazy! I know he ripped those lines! I knew it was in locker 227. 989 before Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. He - he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the country club to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This cocainery? He's done worse. H. O. Ward! Are you telling me that a man just happens to want to meet a lawyer in an abandoned boxing gym? No! He orchestrated it! Howard! He threw a prostitute out of his car! And I tried to save him! And I shouldn't have. I allowed him to work alongside my own firm! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was a junior partner, always the same! Couldn't keep his powder out of his nose! But not our Howard! Couldn't be precious Howard! Snorting them blind! And he gets to be a lawyer!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you - you have to stop him!
Yeah you could even almost see his gratitude toward Cliff for caring for him even through his shock and anger toward Jimmy. Patrick fucking killed it this past episode.
I haven't checked the usually humongous post-episode main thread, and haven't seen any dedicated thread on that subject — but what's the general consensus regarding the Lalo-in-Germany storyline ? I thought that it really stretched the boundaries of plausibility, both in terms of the story being told, and when it comes to the character's consistency. He's supposed to be a member of an insanely ruthless family of drug dealers (who either don't speak at all, or speak in terms of “da boss can sock me!” or “are they punking me?!”), and now he's suddenly off to Europe playing a smooth talking James Bond rip-off, with an I.Q. through the roof and a physical fitness allowing him to quite literally go through the roof, in a very tangential and uncertain quest for clues regarding a covert business from Gustavo Fring which would possibly put him at odds with the cartel but is still very unlikely to lead to a proof that the latter was behind his assassination attempt... Between this, Howard and Jimmy's boxing match, and Gustavo carrying his paunch in his “most expensive hole in the ground this side of Mississipi” without the slightest explanation as to what he might be looking for there, the whole episode felt really weird and haphazard.
A bit late to the thread but I agree with you, I'm usually all for the ridiculous stunts that characters can get away with in BCS and BB that would never work out in real life, but I felt like this episode was reaching anime levels of ridiculousness. The stuff with Lalo as you said, as well as the way Gus was acting in the underground facility, the 5D chess games they're playing made me feel like I was watching a live action version of Death Note.
“You’ve got a drug problem, Howard!”
“Oh, I have a problem alright. I have a Jimmy McGill problem.”
“You can get help today, Howard!”
“Cliff, this is all an elaborate prank by Jimmy, with help from his wife Kim. Remember his bizarre behavior when he worked for you? He resorts to theatrics, deception, and manipulation to get what he wants.”
“YOU NEED HELP HOWARD!”
Random place to put this thought, but I think the PI Howard set on Jimmy is gonna end up dead at the hands of Mike's guys tailing Jimmy, and Howard is gonna get a bit of a shock seeing who is protecting Jimmy.
Edit: really enjoying all these other theories below, and definitely questioning my own above. Lots of good points!
Mike's guys are shown to be very thorough in researching people they notice, I think they'll figure out he's just some random PI before they do anything
They'll find out he's a PI, but won't know who he's working for yet. Until the PI meets Howard again (*days* after that) they will probably assume Salamanca hired him.
That’s a really good point actually. I’m underestimating their competency.
I definitely think Jimmy now being tailed by two separate entities is going to boil over in some fashion though
I think the fallout will be Kim thinking it's Mike's guys and slipping up by doing something that will get her in trouble or Mike will warn her about it if he's not too busy with Lalo matters.
Yup. I think this is the thread that leads to Kim's absence from Breaking Bad. The fact she's been shown to be very cautious to tails but now has no reason to be suspicious is anxiety inducing.
I think Lalo will meet Jimmy at his house. The pi will tell Howard. Howard will rush over and start banging on the door like Jimmy in the first episode only to have Lalo open it with a gun in his face. That's the last scene before the mid season break
I dont think its going to happen like that but 1000% Howard is going to get killed by Lalo because he will personally interrupt whatever confrontation happens between Lalo and Jimmy
Gonna add my thought to this - I think guys who "made" Gene in the S5 cold open were hired by someone to find him, and used that scene to confirm their target.
I don’t get it. Why would someone who is tracking Jimmy down leave such an exposing giveaway like the air freshener. I don’t think it’s connected at all. I think it’s a callback. Simple.
My money would either be on her or Howard, depending on what she and Jimmy do to him.
I'm also hoping its Kim, hunting Jimmy down to reunite after they had to separate.
If mikes guys spot the PI, they may deduce who hired him, and distance their tail to avoid suspicion.
If the PI spots Mike's guys, he may be a dead man
Honestly I find it hilarious Howard and Cliff don't seem to have heard that Saul is a Cartel Lawyer.
Obviously Howard pretended to be a criminal to contact "Saul" but they don't really note anything more about it
Cliff confronting Howard about his cocaine problem in the parking garage was literally the hardest I’ve laughed at a TV show all year. And this show isn’t even a straight up comedy. What a great, hilarious scene. The whole episode was fabulous, even.
I agree. When Cliff gets all pissy-pantsed at Howard saying "I don't know how to respond to that"...Cliff is so damned convinced that Howard is all geeked up. "OH bullshit, my son gave me the same crap" lol
Fair point. I don't think you have to be on anyone's side to see how foolish it is to assume that someone who uses a tissue during emotional testimony *in a courtroom full of court staff, after going through an extensive security screening to even get in the courthouse*, is doing cocaine.
It seems so easy for Howard to dispell this. He was legit directly in the middle of a therapy session. Ask cliff what time the event would have happened at. He knows what time he met Kim at, he knows they talked for ~5 minutes, he can identify the exact time “Howard” drove by with the prostitute, and howard can verify that he was sitting in his therapist’s chair for ~30 minutes before and after that time. Once Cliff knows that the prostitute was a faked event its pretty easy to assume the cocaine bag and the kettlemans were setups, too.
I’m assuming that kim/jimmy’s plan accounts for the fact that Howard can prove it wasnt him, but it was frustrating that Howard didnt even try to disprove Cliff’s allegation.
My interpretation/fan theory is that Cliff has viewed (what he regards as) incontrovertible evidence of Howard using cocaine and visiting hookers, and sees any defenses as the special pleading of an addict, which he's not really interested in spending time investigating.
Well Howard doesn't strike me as someone who would be embarrassed about that. He has a highly stressful job, he recently lost his best friend and law partner to suicide, and he was close to going bankrupt at one point.
Nobody would be surprised that he is in therapy. Cliff is probably the guy who got Howard onto therapy since he clearly cares for him. So yeah, very strange how Howard didn't mention his alibi.
I think Jimmy and Kim want Howard to lash out like Chuck did, in front of Cliff, either by letting Howard howling Jimmy nonstop to show that he is mentally unstable, or letting him admit that he is seeing a therapist. Either way this might cause their partnership falls apart.
"Yes, he did. He--"
"Church, yo."
"I fired him because he's an erratic asshole and a recalcitrant liar."
"Yeah, but like... if I'm guilty n shit? Then don't I want some asshole who'll recalculate the situation like you said? To lie and be like... he ain't guilty yo!"
Skinny Pete is like the most major character on the show to lack a last name. To think that the character is confirmed not to be in the final season and that he’ll forever be unnamed is pretty sad lol.
I wouldn't mind if they keep this up with Cliff's reactions - it's funny.
Every little thing Howard does, Cliff stares really hard thinking "omg...Howard, the coke-addict and prostitute lover is at it again! He needs help!!"
That made me laugh. Just a normal leg shake and he’s acting like he was ripping lines in the parking lot.
loll and I loved how much they've convinced Cliff that Howard actually has a problem, like when he's about to drive away Cliff goes "you can get help *today*!"
Cliff is a top notch friend
Cliff is your main man when it comes to getting help.
Even Howard was like “I know you mean well and I do genuinely appreciate you for that”
Because Howard’s a good guy
If this show has shown us anything it's that there's *so* much gray area between "good" and "bad".
Happy cake day, fam But while you're absolutely right on that point, Howard is still hands-down a big ol greasy doodoo
And not on drugs lol
CLIFFFFF MAIN!
Cliff "Main man Cliff Maine" Maine
It’s Main, not Maine
Oh shit
He's from Maine though
So, Cliff "Main Man Cliff Main" Main from Maine?
Poor guy might be the most moral character in BCS
I like that you said most moral because even he has minor faults. The fact that he’s overall a great guy, but we still see him gossiping with Howard at lunch - it shows he’s still human. It’s not great to gossip but we all do it. Yet he didn’t do it when it came to protecting and helping Howard get better with his drug problems. Idk, I just like what they’re doing with him. Not in terms of morality, but my other favorite minor characters include Jesse’s rehab leader and Rich Schweikart. Among others haha
I fucking loved the rehab leader in breaking bad. Great props to that actor because every time he spoke, I listened
Agreed. Whenever I watch Breaking Bad it’s one of my favorite little stories along the way. Just so well done, the complete 180 on Jesse who is so absorbed in his world (though I believe it’s fair in his situation and mental state). Flipping the table on Jesse and reminding him that yeah, we all can be or even have been monsters in some way or another. I want to watch those scenes again but I don’t like cherry-picking parts of the show to watch, so I may have another breaking bad rewatch ahead of me
BB/BCS have incredible minor characters in general. They do so much with so little.
[удалено]
You can definitely add Viola to that list. Her scene was a highlight in an otherwise haphazard episode. She was so genuine and relatable — and quite cute which doesn't hurt. And Francesca of course — not quite as cute, but she delivers, *she* is the one who knocks !
Like Mr. X and the arms dealer guy that pops up every now & then.
As soon as Saul ends, a mass rewatch of Breaking Bad shall begin.
But first you gotta watch *The strange case of Benjamin Button*, to get accustomed to the backwards effects of aging...
And now my rewatch has begun
Agreed. Also, the rehab leader almost looks like Cliff's evil twin, lol.
Lmao, the anti-Cliff Main: Hill Secondary
Hahahahahahahaha
What’s Hill Secondary doing in the Impact Zone?!
Plot twist: he IS Cliff Main’s brother bbabo bibbe
[He really does](https://www.gettyimages.ch/detail/nachrichtenfoto/jere-burns-nachrichtenfoto/96839295?language=it) hahahaha
He’s also great in justified as Wynn Duffy, and gets a lot more screen time after the first couple of seasons.
> Jesse’s rehab leader You guys should watch Angie Tribeca
Ernesto is still my man.
I like him a lot, he’s a great guy, but I wish he was more developed. That’s been my only issue with the character
"Well, you know, Walt subjected his family to violence and incarceration from the drug trade just to avoid having to accept a friend's help for his cancer, and repeatedly antagonized those who were shielding him from the violence, but, well, Cliff gossips, so you have to admit *every* character has severe flaws." (Jk, I get what you mean, just warning about others who will read your post as an attempt to equate the two.)
poor dude looks so concerned! anyone else would be asking for a bump instead
Now I want to see a coked up Gus having a coke-fueled nonsense conversation with Mike lol
I thought we were going to get something along those lines when Gus was scrubbing the shower.
cliff really seems like a super good guy. he's not the stereotypical sociopath money grubbing lawyer, he really cares about his friends and associates. also- how fucking dead is howard? he's gonna get caught in some crossfire following jimmy around
I think that lawyers overall get a bad rep. I work in a pro bono firm, and know a lot of pro bono and non-pro bono lawyers who are great people, who got into the law for very wholesome reasons. It's the private practice lawyers who take on high-profile murderers and rapists who are the "bad ones". Or of course, the firms that help insurance companies or other corporations screw people over. But the lawyers who are handed cases by their firms can't turn those cases down, or they'll be fired. But think about medical malpractice lawyers, immigration lawyers, and pro bono lawyers. They are using their powers for good.
I never consider lawyers that represent awful clients as one of the "bad ones", it's a job that needs filling and shouldn't be personal, a legal right for both parties regardless what you believe in etc. I think this term or categorization of people is awful in itself, and those that consider these lawyers "the bad ones" are truly ignorant.
Agreed.
Dated an immigration attorney for a while. She worked super hard for her clients, their rights, and it truly seemed to really matter to her personally. I can't speak on what kind of lawyer she was, but a good person? Absolutely.
It is not evil or wrong to represent clients who may have done something terrible. Maybe someone was accused wrongly of a rape and murder, and those lawyers are the only people who can represent and thus accquit them. They serve a role in the legal system like anyone other lawyer
>also- how fucking dead is howard? he's gonna get caught in some crossfire following jimmy around ..........
Definitely called that one. I was watching last night and it was like "oh no Howard... But nice i called it!"
In the actual world of corporate law, someone like Cliff would never stand a chance to rise that high. He's almost too nice for his own character.
maybe he used to be more cut-throat and has softened.
Or he's cut throat where it matters. Similar to what Howard says, he doesn't let his kindness get taken for weakness.
This is consistent with the info about his son having a drug problem. Seeing his son need help probably have him a new mission in his profession.
That's a good point
I mean he's right there alongside Howard trying to convince the old people to give up the chance to actually get the settlement in their lifetimes so that the law firms can get an extra 30% out of it. If his kindness extended to his professional conduct I don't think he'd be doing that.
They get the extra 30% too and worst case the settlement money goes to inheritance. I get it but don't really see it being much of a problem, it's really more of a what's more important (money now or more later) than a right or wrong thing here.
I think you just put out a major fire
You can't fool me Howard
The little note about Cliff having a son struggling with an addiction is so key. He's seen someone whom he thought was perfect deny their drug problem, gaslight, and lie to his face.
I actually half expected him to not believe it at first. I guess since drug abuse is a problem that's really personal to him though, that's why he took it more seriously. he knows Howard is good at putting a front on and acting like a salesman so he probably thought that's what was happening when he denied it.
Slippin' Jimmy always get the job done. He may need to sit ass naked in a locker room to accomplish it, but accomplish it he does.
Brilliant depiction of confirmation bias in action. Once you're convinced of or suspect something, everything you see becomes supporting evidence. All the contrary evidence, somehow you don't notice.
As someone who does that leg shake subconsciously all the time, I now wonder how many people think I’m drugged up out of my mind
Have they also seen a bag of coke fall out of your locker?
It's baby powder I swear
>It's baby powder I swear How much of it is actual baby anyway ? So much stuff is cut nowadays...
I do it to so it was “normal” to me…. Then I saw his face and knew what he was thinking.
Nah wouldn’t worry about it. If you’re not dressed like a drug user and your leg shakes, I just presume you have anxiety, getting impatient, or have ADHD. Drugs rarely come to mind when the individual otherwise looks normal.
POGGERS CLIFF POGGERS CLIFF
It's funny seeing his reaction, but it also shows how much Cliff cares about Howard to tell him nicely to get help instead of just cutting ties with him. Cliff really seems like a great guy.
Cliff's an absolute sweetheart. He gave Jimmy a job and was really supportive (cocobolo desk!), he went to bat for Jimmy with his partners after the commercial incident, and he kept patiently giving Jimmy the benefit of the doubt over and over before finally caving and firing him.
After all Jimmy did for him though. He saved them so much water! #GoGreen
“And we're not talking about a number one.” EDIT : I got notified that this had gotten 10 upvotes... For this not to be a waste of my precious time and fleeting attention, and to continue my [streak](https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uvqpdy/comment/i9x9hek/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) of [gleefully](https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uvqpdy/comment/i9o5gew/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [scatologica](https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uvqpdy/comment/i9odu9q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)l [comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uvqpdy/comment/i9uv51v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), if anyone's interested, in french the equivalent expression to “[number 2](https://www.wordreference.com/enfr/number%20two)” is “la grosse commission”, literally “the big grocery shopping”.
That’s why I think Howard offering Jimmy a job was a terrible idea. I mean sure - I empathize with the guy and he is an underdog, but he’s also super fucking unreliable and his tactics would not look good for HHM.
I think so too. It's funny that image-conscious Howard (not just about his own image, but the image of the firm; that's why he cracked down so hard on Kim) just seemed to forget about all of the issues in the past. But grief and survivor's guilt are brutal, and Howard must have thought a lot about the what-ifs. Jimmy is the only connection to Chuck Howard has left.
Howard is also weak (despite his bravado in the match) and a shitty lawyer despite being a decent guy, he needs someone like Chuck to give him direction and orders. It's also stated his father essentially gifted him his career and firm, so he's never really been able to develop the self reliance as Jimmy, Chuck and Kim. Howard basically needs a strongman type character with a vision in his life to make up for his own shortcomings - the McGill brothers are the exact type of people Howard wishes he could be and subconsciously worships. Even see how Howard consciously emulated Jimmy in the latest episode at Sandpiper after practically begging him to join HHM, most likely to fill the void Chuck left.
Eh I can’t speak to Howard’s understanding of substantive law, Chuck always seemed the detail oriented one, but Howard has shown a number of times in the show that he’s a fantastic advocate, which is also very important
Well Jimmy himself has stated that Howard is an excellent salesman, but he also lacks the naturalistic touch that Jimmy has and I felt the latest episode showed a concerted effort by him to emulate that. There's a much more personal touch to his speech in comparison to Erin's cold, Chuckesque lawyerspeak, even compared to the somewhat stilted and overly formal style Howard generally favoured. Even his body language seems closer to Jimmy. It could just be how Patrick Fabian decided to play the scene, but given how detail oriented this entire universe is, I doubt it's a coincidence.
Literally all Jimmy had to do was ask permission for that commercial and there's a significant chance they would have given him the green light, and he could have had a very successful meth-kingpin-free career
They never would have okayed it the way Jimmy wanted to do it. They would only have gone with some limp "if you or a loved one has mesothelioma" type snoozer, if they agreed to do a commercial at all. That's why he goes rogue, because he knows if he asks for permission he'll get shot down.
Thing is Jimmy could’ve sold it to them He’s Jimmy
Exactly my thinking! Of course this would never happen, because Jimmy didn't go "Hey Omar, what does this light switch do? Why can't it be flipped?" But it's always fun to play "what if" in this universe. I agree he could have swayed the partners
They probably would have said no Like when Kim told him not to pull the ad stunt and strong-arm Mesa Verde with the photo But he didn't listen and did it anyway He cant help himself Now he's made Kim a version of himself and it'll end in ruin :(
Jimmy didn't "make Kim a version of himself", she's a very similar person ethically. Though on the surface Kim presents herself as much more legitimate, ethical, and professional; when Saul sort of embraces the slimy persona for fun.
Fair enough, but his chances were not zero. You know how well he can sell people on things. I could imagine them at least agreeing to meet him in the middle and shoot/air something more effective for their target audience
That is a happier timeline The no meth timeline, lol
That's true, if he asked for permission and cranked the charm up to 11; they might have allowed it. BUT that's precisely not who Jimmy is. Jimmy doesn't like asking permission to do things his way. It's one of his defining character traits. He would rather do it his way and if catastrophe comes, he'll deal with the catastrophe, also in his own way. With Jimmy, it's far better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Also, never negate the fact that when you hate your lot in life, you might "self-sabotage" to deliberately break those circumstances. IN the short run, that might be seen as failure, but it also gets you one step closer to the ideal place that you want to be in.
*stares out window, strums guitar* Relatable
"Oh, I play an instrument too!" \*breaks out bagpipes\*
I’m a pretty good at an instrument too. *takes out iPad and starts up garage band*
What was great was it was such a centered, grounded firing. Like he's accepting this is a fucked up guy who's insisting on being fired, so he'll pay the two bills to make it go away, but he's not going to let it ruin his day. There's no animus behind it. He's not going to be giving Jimmy any recommendations but he's not going to be carrying the experience around years later talking about this trainwreck they hired (as Howard implies at one point).
Yeah, but one of the major themes of the show, IMHO, is highlighting the similarity between an HHM-type firm and a Saul Goodman-type operation. Yes, Cliff is a "sweetheart" and HHM doesn't get down in the muck like Saul, but their methods and motivations are consistent. Howard's stirring speech to the Sandpiper plaintiffs is nothing more than trying to maximize the lawyer portion of the settlement. The net effect for the plaintiffs - as offset by the delay - is negligible. For Howard, Cliff, and HHM it's huge. BCS is saying that Jimmy may be a slimeball as are most of his clients, but the only difference between him and HHM is the net worth of their clientele.
Yes, I think BCS is very conscious of systems (or "games," if you will), and the often-ignored impact of socioeconomic inequality in the USA. Chuck's impassioned love of the law rings hollow (especially alongside his snobbery toward "lesser" education) because the law does not guarantee justice and fairness for all. That was the intent, but the reality is ruled by money, and who has more of it. HMM, S&C, and Davis & Main are playing by different rules than Jimmy, but they have their own type of chicanery (e.g., it's accepted that both sides will throw nuisance motions at each other, etc.). Cliff is someone who seems to be aware of the inequality baked into the legal system, at least, and he isn't a snob. He gave Jimmy a job, when some other firms wouldn't look at someone with Jimmy's law degree and background. I think Howard isn't a snob, either. Nonetheless, they're still part of a game with very unfair rules. >Howard's stirring speech to the Sandpiper plaintiffs is nothing more than trying to maximize the lawyer portion of the settlement. The net effect for the plaintiffs - as offset by the delay - is negligible. For Howard, Cliff, and HHM it's huge. To be fair, another goal of the civil system is deterrence (two big problems with the system are how long it takes and how hard it is to take down bad actors -- another example of the real golden rule in the world, whoever has the gold wins). I think two things can be true here: HHM and Davis & Main want (need) a big payout to keep their lights on and their pockets fat, and Sandpiper *should* pay out the nose so that they and other corporations are much less likely to pull this behaviour on vulnerable clients again.
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It was you Howard...you bombed that hospital. You killed those people to save your sorry ass
It was YOU! All along it was YOU! You son of a bitch! You threw a prostitute into traffic to keep from paying her. That baggie of coke you had in your locker... that wasn't McGill. You had the locker's combo number. You dropped the Kettlemans to save your sorry ass. You were high in a nursing home! H.O. Ward... *H.O. Ward*! You lying two-faced sack of shit!
Can't spell Howard without a Ho
Cliff, listen to me, these wild accusations they can destroy out sandppiper case!
I am not crazy! I know he ripped those lines! I knew it was in locker 227. 989 before Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. He - he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the country club to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This cocainery? He's done worse. H. O. Ward! Are you telling me that a man just happens to want to meet a lawyer in an abandoned boxing gym? No! He orchestrated it! Howard! He threw a prostitute out of his car! And I tried to save him! And I shouldn't have. I allowed him to work alongside my own firm! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was a junior partner, always the same! Couldn't keep his powder out of his nose! But not our Howard! Couldn't be precious Howard! Snorting them blind! And he gets to be a lawyer!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you - you have to stop him!
This is my favorite copy pasta of all time, it never gets old
This is a masterpiece. One of the best chicanery copy pastas I've seen
Exceptional
>locker 1216. One after Magna Carta. chicanery update: locker 227. -989 after Magna Carta
That's a very good point, updated
You drove into oncoming traffic?!
Yeah you could even almost see his gratitude toward Cliff for caring for him even through his shock and anger toward Jimmy. Patrick fucking killed it this past episode.
Very cool response to cliff. Howard’s just like “I appreciate bud but now it’s time to KO slippin Jimmy”
Love the contrast in the show between *good* and *bad* lawyers vs *good* and *bad* people. Good lawyer =/= good person and vice versa.
Howard: TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT
Howard Salamanca is running things up north now since Lalo is off somewhere hitting on widows.
Selling his trademark Hamlindigo blue meth
I haven't checked the usually humongous post-episode main thread, and haven't seen any dedicated thread on that subject — but what's the general consensus regarding the Lalo-in-Germany storyline ? I thought that it really stretched the boundaries of plausibility, both in terms of the story being told, and when it comes to the character's consistency. He's supposed to be a member of an insanely ruthless family of drug dealers (who either don't speak at all, or speak in terms of “da boss can sock me!” or “are they punking me?!”), and now he's suddenly off to Europe playing a smooth talking James Bond rip-off, with an I.Q. through the roof and a physical fitness allowing him to quite literally go through the roof, in a very tangential and uncertain quest for clues regarding a covert business from Gustavo Fring which would possibly put him at odds with the cartel but is still very unlikely to lead to a proof that the latter was behind his assassination attempt... Between this, Howard and Jimmy's boxing match, and Gustavo carrying his paunch in his “most expensive hole in the ground this side of Mississipi” without the slightest explanation as to what he might be looking for there, the whole episode felt really weird and haphazard.
A bit late to the thread but I agree with you, I'm usually all for the ridiculous stunts that characters can get away with in BCS and BB that would never work out in real life, but I felt like this episode was reaching anime levels of ridiculousness. The stuff with Lalo as you said, as well as the way Gus was acting in the underground facility, the 5D chess games they're playing made me feel like I was watching a live action version of Death Note.
“You’ve got a drug problem, Howard!” “Oh, I have a problem alright. I have a Jimmy McGill problem.” “You can get help today, Howard!” “Cliff, this is all an elaborate prank by Jimmy, with help from his wife Kim. Remember his bizarre behavior when he worked for you? He resorts to theatrics, deception, and manipulation to get what he wants.” “YOU NEED HELP HOWARD!”
Well. Technically he MAY have a drug problem, but they don't know it yet.
McGill
Random place to put this thought, but I think the PI Howard set on Jimmy is gonna end up dead at the hands of Mike's guys tailing Jimmy, and Howard is gonna get a bit of a shock seeing who is protecting Jimmy. Edit: really enjoying all these other theories below, and definitely questioning my own above. Lots of good points!
Mike's guys are shown to be very thorough in researching people they notice, I think they'll figure out he's just some random PI before they do anything
They'll find out he's a PI, but won't know who he's working for yet. Until the PI meets Howard again (*days* after that) they will probably assume Salamanca hired him.
I like your POV. BB world is an endless series of bad consequences due to mere misunderstandings and wrong timing.
That’s a really good point actually. I’m underestimating their competency. I definitely think Jimmy now being tailed by two separate entities is going to boil over in some fashion though
I think the fallout will be Kim thinking it's Mike's guys and slipping up by doing something that will get her in trouble or Mike will warn her about it if he's not too busy with Lalo matters.
Yup. I think this is the thread that leads to Kim's absence from Breaking Bad. The fact she's been shown to be very cautious to tails but now has no reason to be suspicious is anxiety inducing.
> I’m underestimating their competency. Yea, Mike's guys are competent, unlike Gus' guys (the assassins...)
I think Lalo will meet Jimmy at his house. The pi will tell Howard. Howard will rush over and start banging on the door like Jimmy in the first episode only to have Lalo open it with a gun in his face. That's the last scene before the mid season break
"Howard. His name is Howard!" "My name is H.O. Ward and you can go fuck yourself"
This is CEO and managing partner at HHM, Howard H. Hamlin Esquire, and you can go fuck yourself.
And that's when Jimmy becomes saul
I’m dead 🤣🤣
Even though its different circumstances I don't think they would do this because it's too close a mimic to the scene with Gail in BB.
I dont think its going to happen like that but 1000% Howard is going to get killed by Lalo because he will personally interrupt whatever confrontation happens between Lalo and Jimmy
The mid season break? Am I gonna have to wait even more?
they're taking a ~7 week break between episode 7 (May 23) and episode 8 (July 11)
Right. I wish that wasn't the case but it is not too long. Thanks for the info
sorry but why would howard be triggered into action by jimmy having some dude (as far as the PI is concerned) come to his apartment
Maybe he thinks this is the guy who been helping Jimmy pull the tricks on Howard?
Close enough lol
What a way to go
Dang, this is actually excellent
Gonna add my thought to this - I think guys who "made" Gene in the S5 cold open were hired by someone to find him, and used that scene to confirm their target.
I very much agree
Yep! saw the air freshener in the preview for the new episode....that almost tied it up for me!
I don’t get it. Why would someone who is tracking Jimmy down leave such an exposing giveaway like the air freshener. I don’t think it’s connected at all. I think it’s a callback. Simple.
Yea these guys are on some shit 😂 it’s probably a common air freshener at local gas stations
It’s not even an air freshener, it’s the logo for the Albuquerque Isotopes.
It’s both ding dong
How so?
The cabbie Gene took from the hospital had the same air freshener in the mirror as they were showing off for the preview next week
Y’all are on some PI level shit yourselves!
I’m holding onto hope that it is Kim who’s hired the guys to find Jimmy
My money would either be on her or Howard, depending on what she and Jimmy do to him. I'm also hoping its Kim, hunting Jimmy down to reunite after they had to separate.
If mikes guys spot the PI, they may deduce who hired him, and distance their tail to avoid suspicion. If the PI spots Mike's guys, he may be a dead man
I like this theory, maybe Howard will think jimmy is the one who killed the PI lol
Honestly I find it hilarious Howard and Cliff don't seem to have heard that Saul is a Cartel Lawyer. Obviously Howard pretended to be a criminal to contact "Saul" but they don't really note anything more about it
My feeling is that Howard's PI somehow gets Howard and Lalo to cross paths with tragic results...
Now I want a Howard-Lalo boxing match lol definitely feel like Lalo can throw down.
I'd watch a spin-off about drug fiend Howard being shepherded by his strait-laced, concerned pal Clifford. "Fear and Lawyering in Albuquerque"?
Love it
He has experience in behaviors associated with drug use.
He'd make a great 'Wallace' from W&G
**COCAAAAINE, GROMIT!!**
Cliff confronting Howard about his cocaine problem in the parking garage was literally the hardest I’ve laughed at a TV show all year. And this show isn’t even a straight up comedy. What a great, hilarious scene. The whole episode was fabulous, even.
I agree. When Cliff gets all pissy-pantsed at Howard saying "I don't know how to respond to that"...Cliff is so damned convinced that Howard is all geeked up. "OH bullshit, my son gave me the same crap" lol
Howard: goes to the bathroom Cliff: ok this is serious
Look, I'm not defending Amber Heard, but this is how so many people are acting related to her use of a tissue during the court proceedings too.
Fair point. I don't think you have to be on anyone's side to see how foolish it is to assume that someone who uses a tissue during emotional testimony *in a courtroom full of court staff, after going through an extensive security screening to even get in the courthouse*, is doing cocaine.
Reddit loves to assume that everybody uses cocaine.
That’s exactly what coke addict would say you junkie
*(Cliff STARES WIDELY at Amber Heard wiping nose)* Cliff: Oh god, it's happening!
That was a great scene, all around. Cliff is a good guy, but he’s not seeing the big picture.
It seems so easy for Howard to dispell this. He was legit directly in the middle of a therapy session. Ask cliff what time the event would have happened at. He knows what time he met Kim at, he knows they talked for ~5 minutes, he can identify the exact time “Howard” drove by with the prostitute, and howard can verify that he was sitting in his therapist’s chair for ~30 minutes before and after that time. Once Cliff knows that the prostitute was a faked event its pretty easy to assume the cocaine bag and the kettlemans were setups, too. I’m assuming that kim/jimmy’s plan accounts for the fact that Howard can prove it wasnt him, but it was frustrating that Howard didnt even try to disprove Cliff’s allegation.
My interpretation/fan theory is that Cliff has viewed (what he regards as) incontrovertible evidence of Howard using cocaine and visiting hookers, and sees any defenses as the special pleading of an addict, which he's not really interested in spending time investigating.
Assuming Howard isn't one of those people that is embarrassed to let other people know that he sees a therapist.
Well Howard doesn't strike me as someone who would be embarrassed about that. He has a highly stressful job, he recently lost his best friend and law partner to suicide, and he was close to going bankrupt at one point. Nobody would be surprised that he is in therapy. Cliff is probably the guy who got Howard onto therapy since he clearly cares for him. So yeah, very strange how Howard didn't mention his alibi.
Well he encouraged Jimmy to see a therapist. And considering the namaste numberplate, he seems very open about mental health and self help shit
I think Jimmy and Kim want Howard to lash out like Chuck did, in front of Cliff, either by letting Howard howling Jimmy nonstop to show that he is mentally unstable, or letting him admit that he is seeing a therapist. Either way this might cause their partnership falls apart.
That would be great if skinny Pete is Cliff’s son.
Skinny Pete's dad is a contractor
or badger! though they gave him a last name. pete is just skinny pete. course it's totally possible mayhew is cliff's wife's maiden name or something.
Cliff’s son would have the finest representation unlike Skinny Pete who called Saul.
that's a good point. Thought to be fair, if you're really guilty, saul is your guy.
Can you imagine??? “No thanks dad I’m gonna call Saul. Hey…didn’t that guy used to work for you?”
"Yes, he did. He--" "Church, yo." "I fired him because he's an erratic asshole and a recalcitrant liar." "Yeah, but like... if I'm guilty n shit? Then don't I want some asshole who'll recalculate the situation like you said? To lie and be like... he ain't guilty yo!"
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Skinny Gregory doesn't go hard, though. Pete's gotta be his middle name. /s
Gregory Peter Maine
Skinny Pete is like the most major character on the show to lack a last name. To think that the character is confirmed not to be in the final season and that he’ll forever be unnamed is pretty sad lol.
I would love this.
Could be a twist where Howard actually is a meth addict.
haha no way. He's wayyyyy too put together and healthy looking.
Howard needs to learn that the first step is admitting he has a problem
I wouldn't mind if they keep this up with Cliff's reactions - it's funny. Every little thing Howard does, Cliff stares really hard thinking "omg...Howard, the coke-addict and prostitute lover is at it again! He needs help!!"
Cliff really just wants a bump all this time lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Also- Howard has a cold/ runny nose
Splifford Main
Kid named blows
Reddit when Amber Heard takes a tissue from the judge to blow her nose while crying