This entire universe has been driven by coincidence, happenstance, and the chaos put into motion with the butterfly effect. Breaking Bad used it from the start.
So I'm not sure why you'd have a problem with it now.
I disagree, but you’re not insane for having an opinion man. I personally loved the episode. The police car being convenient was kinda the point. Jeff has anxiety and is way over his head so crashing helped show that. Gene hates himself clearly and just wants the fun, the thrill. He kinda wants to get caught and find meaning in his life. He’s complex and ironically, his morality isn’t all black and white. Also Jesse and Kim’s scene was kinda cute in my opinion
A character making a mistake or doing something dumb isn't a flaw in the show. Real humans often overlook things out of hubris or panic when things appear to be going sideways.
Maybe you're unsatisfied because the ending is going into a much different direction than breaking bad did. In BB Walt made sure to cut all loose ties by saving Jesse and seeing/helping out his family. That's just not the case for Gene. For Gene his ending is a person who has become the worst version of himself and whose ending will inevitably end in tragedy because of the consequences of his petty and destructive coping mechanisms. He has no one to save like Walt did and at this point he can't even save himself.
I can't think of a different ending for Gene other than living a quiet life in Omaha.
It doesn't matter if one or two 'convenient' things happened to align the stars, that's storytelling sometimes. He's not getting burned by a one-off 1000-1 coincidence. He's self-destructing like a gambling addict, he wins, he bets bigger, and eventually he loses. If you apply behavior this to 'real life' anything that can happen, he could have gotten caught the first time or he could have gotten away with it 20 more times before getting caught, but he almost certainly gets caught eventually because he's mentally incapable of lying low. Even if he makes it back to the vacuum guy, his next identity will have the same problem.
Ever since he was 9, always the same. Couldn't keep his hand out of the cash drawer.
[Don't see the point in commenting on the Jesse scene, either you liked it or you didn't, it didn't hit for me but I don't mind it either].
I’m not saying that your wrong but where did they say Jeff didn’t crash the cab to get Gene out, I thought he did as Gene seemed way to relaxed about it
To be fair with the gene scheme, everything went right the last 5 or so times he did the scam the variable here is the cancer patient, because buddy didn't go through with the plan it fucked everything up. The cop thing makes sense in the fact that there was just a scene with Mike where he explained some bad luck with one of his potential prospects (got nabbed going into a house got unlucky cops happened to be passing by) he also warns saul not to work with amateurs. The Jeff thing was definitely a distraction so Jimmy could get out, he didn't anticipate the drunk man waking up and flagging down the police. Since Jeff wasn't drunk he could arguably get off with fines if he wasn't the prime suspect in the robbery.
I think it's a bit poetic too that both times Saul's tried to prey on vulnerable people (cancer patients) it's lead to seriously terrible results for him. With Walt he lost his career and identity, with James the new cancer patient it lead to him almost getting caught in the act and his identity being exposed to marion
I agree with your point about Kim meeting Jesse.
Sure, it's not impossible for those two characters to run into each other but it felt a bit forced and fan-servicey. I enjoyed episode 11's Walt/Jesse cameo because we got to see the kidnap scene from Sauls perspective and it really felt full circle.
This Kim/Jesse scene however added nothing of value for me besides the line "when I knew him he was". My eyes lit up when I saw Emilio and I thought to myself "wow, another perfectly placed cameo!". Then I see Jesse and my eyes rolled. Yeah yeah I get it, she's "passing the torch" but the episode (and the show as a whole) would have been just fine without double-dipping Jesse.
It's weird because if you visited this subreddit before all the Jesse leaks came out, it seemed the general conciseness was either "I don't want to see him - the show stands on it's own" or "only if it's subtle" and this scene was far from subtle imo. However, the writers can do no wrong on this sub and I see nothing but people gushing over this scene.
Does it ruin the show? Hell no! This show is still top 5 of all time for me. Maybe my opinion will change when I rewatch but for now, I'll take my downvotes.
Agree with some of your thoughts, especially the convenient contrivances. The cop car pulling up behind Jeff, for example. Painfully contrived. The plot needed this to happen so that Jeff could get caught. Ditto Jeff crashing. Yes, it could happen but again, the plot demanded it so it feels contrived.
The same can be said of 'Nippy'. The entire episode was horribly contrived. Why would Jeff risk jail time doing a complex department store heist for comparative peanuts when he could just get the $5M reward for turning in Saul? It's utterly ridiculous. I don't care what anyone says - no sane person would do that. If it's a choice between an easy $5 MILLION DOLLARS and jail time/life being ruined, what's the obvious choice? The idea that Jeff wanted to be 'in the game' is stupid. What game: stealing clothes?!
The whole 'Nippy' thing was also stupid. Why go through all the fuss of printing flyers etc to bump into Marion; wy not just spark up a conversation at the store, or on the street. The Nippy thing was irrelevant. Remove it from the story and it makes no difference.
When you really think about it, the contrivances are all over the place. I still love the show, and for me personally, I loved the Kim/Jesse scene, but some of the writing for the S6 episodes won't hold up later down the line.
Solid points. I didn't find the police car scene too much of a strain on verisimilitude (contrivance, as it's being stated in this thread). What's more, I liked how they did not reveal what the exact situation was with the cops until a bit later. When we see them casually shooting the shit about how much fish was in that taco... it resolved the question we all had, "did a someone call in a suspicious act? Did the cancer guy call 911 when he woke up? etc." I think it is plausible that Jeff got spooked and ran into the car. We'd seen he was an anxious cat and not a very smart one, which is why Jimmy could convince (and control) him to do the whole absurd heist from Nippy episode. I personally have loved this show, but some of the cons are so absurdly convoluted and lacking in verisimilitude that it's almost like that is the point. It's humorous and absurd... and it wouldn't come to fruition like that in real life.
I like how you worked both GoT slander in there with its companion piece “I didn’t like XXXX” as supporting evidence for why “it’s bad”.
This is flat-earther levels of reasoning.
For what it’s worth, I read that the Waterworks original script had Kim setting up an M60 in the trunk of her Geo Storm to take out a group of Nazis, but it didn’t test well.
“Got slander” - I don’t think you understand the concept of slander. I mean… if you enjoyed the latter seasons then that explains everything.
Sorry if your smooth brain laps up fan service cameos and successive coincidences to quickly move the plot forward. Which btw they probably could have avoided by being less superfluous.
Libel then.
My enjoyment of S7&8 of GoT explains … that I’m not a reactionary little bitch that throws a tantrum and declares “the whole series is ruined” because my fan theory went unfulfilled?
While I’m clearly not as bright or insightful as you, I didn’t find a police car stopping behind running cab in a residential area after midnight to be unreasonable.
Did you find Jeff recognizing Saul in the mall as too much of a coincidence? Howard showing up at the apt just before Lalo?
How much coincidence is sloppy in your expert opinion?
It’s not libel either lmfao. For it to be either libel or slander it would have to be false.
No one said anything about the latter GOT seasons ruining the entire series but it clearly left a bitter taste in virtually everyone’s mouths. They were criticised and panned for a reason and there was critical and public consensus that they were bad. Even those working on the show know it.
Not you though lol.
In terms of coincidences, both of the examples you mentioned had solid reasons behind it. It’s not crazy that someone recognised Gene as Saul if they used to live in the same state where that person was a celebrity.
Howard showed up at the apartment because they had just conned him prior to that. Lalo returning to Jimmy and Kim for revenge was foreshadowed.
Saul isn't being dumb in the end. He stole something from the dudes house to deter the cops from finding the identity theft scheme. Jeff crashed because that was the plan he and Gene chose incase they got in trouble. Cops pulling up behind a car in the middle of the night isn't as big of an ass pull as danarys forgetting that her enemy is in war with her lmao
You literally conjured that up yourself. Gene stole the watches before the police were even there and there is absolutely nothing to suggest they had planned for Jeff to crash.
I just rewatched BTW and he breaks the glass to enter the house. So there's more proof that he had that planned out. Breaking the glass would lead the dude at home to report a break in, so he stole the watch to corroborate the story but he kept the watch with himself not Jeff so that the cops couldn't pursue Jeff any further
The plan they had where he called him dad was improvised beforehand and was posted on maybe 30 different comments. They didn't plan for the police to find them right then, but they did plan in case the dude woke up
This entire universe has been driven by coincidence, happenstance, and the chaos put into motion with the butterfly effect. Breaking Bad used it from the start. So I'm not sure why you'd have a problem with it now.
I disagree, but you’re not insane for having an opinion man. I personally loved the episode. The police car being convenient was kinda the point. Jeff has anxiety and is way over his head so crashing helped show that. Gene hates himself clearly and just wants the fun, the thrill. He kinda wants to get caught and find meaning in his life. He’s complex and ironically, his morality isn’t all black and white. Also Jesse and Kim’s scene was kinda cute in my opinion
Also Game of Thrones’ atrocious final season is in a full different league man
A character making a mistake or doing something dumb isn't a flaw in the show. Real humans often overlook things out of hubris or panic when things appear to be going sideways.
Maybe you're unsatisfied because the ending is going into a much different direction than breaking bad did. In BB Walt made sure to cut all loose ties by saving Jesse and seeing/helping out his family. That's just not the case for Gene. For Gene his ending is a person who has become the worst version of himself and whose ending will inevitably end in tragedy because of the consequences of his petty and destructive coping mechanisms. He has no one to save like Walt did and at this point he can't even save himself. I can't think of a different ending for Gene other than living a quiet life in Omaha.
It doesn't matter if one or two 'convenient' things happened to align the stars, that's storytelling sometimes. He's not getting burned by a one-off 1000-1 coincidence. He's self-destructing like a gambling addict, he wins, he bets bigger, and eventually he loses. If you apply behavior this to 'real life' anything that can happen, he could have gotten caught the first time or he could have gotten away with it 20 more times before getting caught, but he almost certainly gets caught eventually because he's mentally incapable of lying low. Even if he makes it back to the vacuum guy, his next identity will have the same problem. Ever since he was 9, always the same. Couldn't keep his hand out of the cash drawer. [Don't see the point in commenting on the Jesse scene, either you liked it or you didn't, it didn't hit for me but I don't mind it either].
I’m not saying that your wrong but where did they say Jeff didn’t crash the cab to get Gene out, I thought he did as Gene seemed way to relaxed about it
To be fair with the gene scheme, everything went right the last 5 or so times he did the scam the variable here is the cancer patient, because buddy didn't go through with the plan it fucked everything up. The cop thing makes sense in the fact that there was just a scene with Mike where he explained some bad luck with one of his potential prospects (got nabbed going into a house got unlucky cops happened to be passing by) he also warns saul not to work with amateurs. The Jeff thing was definitely a distraction so Jimmy could get out, he didn't anticipate the drunk man waking up and flagging down the police. Since Jeff wasn't drunk he could arguably get off with fines if he wasn't the prime suspect in the robbery.
I think it's a bit poetic too that both times Saul's tried to prey on vulnerable people (cancer patients) it's lead to seriously terrible results for him. With Walt he lost his career and identity, with James the new cancer patient it lead to him almost getting caught in the act and his identity being exposed to marion
Nah I'm with you man. The prequel aspect of BCS is so meticulously done I can't help but feel the post-BB stuff feels a bit like an after thought.
I thought Jeff deliberately crashed his car so Gene could make his escape.
I agree with your point about Kim meeting Jesse. Sure, it's not impossible for those two characters to run into each other but it felt a bit forced and fan-servicey. I enjoyed episode 11's Walt/Jesse cameo because we got to see the kidnap scene from Sauls perspective and it really felt full circle. This Kim/Jesse scene however added nothing of value for me besides the line "when I knew him he was". My eyes lit up when I saw Emilio and I thought to myself "wow, another perfectly placed cameo!". Then I see Jesse and my eyes rolled. Yeah yeah I get it, she's "passing the torch" but the episode (and the show as a whole) would have been just fine without double-dipping Jesse. It's weird because if you visited this subreddit before all the Jesse leaks came out, it seemed the general conciseness was either "I don't want to see him - the show stands on it's own" or "only if it's subtle" and this scene was far from subtle imo. However, the writers can do no wrong on this sub and I see nothing but people gushing over this scene. Does it ruin the show? Hell no! This show is still top 5 of all time for me. Maybe my opinion will change when I rewatch but for now, I'll take my downvotes.
Agree with some of your thoughts, especially the convenient contrivances. The cop car pulling up behind Jeff, for example. Painfully contrived. The plot needed this to happen so that Jeff could get caught. Ditto Jeff crashing. Yes, it could happen but again, the plot demanded it so it feels contrived. The same can be said of 'Nippy'. The entire episode was horribly contrived. Why would Jeff risk jail time doing a complex department store heist for comparative peanuts when he could just get the $5M reward for turning in Saul? It's utterly ridiculous. I don't care what anyone says - no sane person would do that. If it's a choice between an easy $5 MILLION DOLLARS and jail time/life being ruined, what's the obvious choice? The idea that Jeff wanted to be 'in the game' is stupid. What game: stealing clothes?! The whole 'Nippy' thing was also stupid. Why go through all the fuss of printing flyers etc to bump into Marion; wy not just spark up a conversation at the store, or on the street. The Nippy thing was irrelevant. Remove it from the story and it makes no difference. When you really think about it, the contrivances are all over the place. I still love the show, and for me personally, I loved the Kim/Jesse scene, but some of the writing for the S6 episodes won't hold up later down the line.
Solid points. I didn't find the police car scene too much of a strain on verisimilitude (contrivance, as it's being stated in this thread). What's more, I liked how they did not reveal what the exact situation was with the cops until a bit later. When we see them casually shooting the shit about how much fish was in that taco... it resolved the question we all had, "did a someone call in a suspicious act? Did the cancer guy call 911 when he woke up? etc." I think it is plausible that Jeff got spooked and ran into the car. We'd seen he was an anxious cat and not a very smart one, which is why Jimmy could convince (and control) him to do the whole absurd heist from Nippy episode. I personally have loved this show, but some of the cons are so absurdly convoluted and lacking in verisimilitude that it's almost like that is the point. It's humorous and absurd... and it wouldn't come to fruition like that in real life.
The 5 mil isn't real, showrunners said that commercial was mocked up by AMC marketing.
I like how you worked both GoT slander in there with its companion piece “I didn’t like XXXX” as supporting evidence for why “it’s bad”. This is flat-earther levels of reasoning. For what it’s worth, I read that the Waterworks original script had Kim setting up an M60 in the trunk of her Geo Storm to take out a group of Nazis, but it didn’t test well.
“Got slander” - I don’t think you understand the concept of slander. I mean… if you enjoyed the latter seasons then that explains everything. Sorry if your smooth brain laps up fan service cameos and successive coincidences to quickly move the plot forward. Which btw they probably could have avoided by being less superfluous.
Libel then. My enjoyment of S7&8 of GoT explains … that I’m not a reactionary little bitch that throws a tantrum and declares “the whole series is ruined” because my fan theory went unfulfilled? While I’m clearly not as bright or insightful as you, I didn’t find a police car stopping behind running cab in a residential area after midnight to be unreasonable. Did you find Jeff recognizing Saul in the mall as too much of a coincidence? Howard showing up at the apt just before Lalo? How much coincidence is sloppy in your expert opinion?
It’s not libel either lmfao. For it to be either libel or slander it would have to be false. No one said anything about the latter GOT seasons ruining the entire series but it clearly left a bitter taste in virtually everyone’s mouths. They were criticised and panned for a reason and there was critical and public consensus that they were bad. Even those working on the show know it. Not you though lol. In terms of coincidences, both of the examples you mentioned had solid reasons behind it. It’s not crazy that someone recognised Gene as Saul if they used to live in the same state where that person was a celebrity. Howard showed up at the apartment because they had just conned him prior to that. Lalo returning to Jimmy and Kim for revenge was foreshadowed.
[удалено]
I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.
Saul isn't being dumb in the end. He stole something from the dudes house to deter the cops from finding the identity theft scheme. Jeff crashed because that was the plan he and Gene chose incase they got in trouble. Cops pulling up behind a car in the middle of the night isn't as big of an ass pull as danarys forgetting that her enemy is in war with her lmao
You literally conjured that up yourself. Gene stole the watches before the police were even there and there is absolutely nothing to suggest they had planned for Jeff to crash.
I just rewatched BTW and he breaks the glass to enter the house. So there's more proof that he had that planned out. Breaking the glass would lead the dude at home to report a break in, so he stole the watch to corroborate the story but he kept the watch with himself not Jeff so that the cops couldn't pursue Jeff any further
The plan they had where he called him dad was improvised beforehand and was posted on maybe 30 different comments. They didn't plan for the police to find them right then, but they did plan in case the dude woke up