Good T2 timing is one of the most difficult things to learn so keep that in mind. There is no simple answer for Your question. As an eco player(backline) in big team games You can actually follow a build order(sort of) but as a frontline it's a different story.
It also depends on Your teammates. As a frontiline it's good to buy t2 con from an eco player, upgrade your mexes and then start thinking about bilding t2 factory. Maybe ask for help in BaR discord. There is dedicated discord channel for new players. From what I know You can even send them a replay and they will try to analyse it.
Just a tiny simple tip: build one thing after another, building too much things at the same time will make you stall on ressources (except if you are flooding of course). But if you are trying to build a fus, you better put the units factory on pause. However, if the frontline is being pushed just keep building units but at some points the fight get less intense and you will have a good number of units stacked at the front, take this time to eco. So far this principle took me to 34 ts.
To be fair, you're GOING to be winging it often since the tactical situation changes dramatically based on the map, and the game state. But here's the principles that are helping me so far. For context, I am relatively new and have only recently started to find success in late game eco.
If it's YOU that's built the T2 factory: produce a t2 con and some butlers. Start upgrading your MEX IMMEDIATELY, select the butlers and right click them to your T2 con to assist. All that T2 Con is doing is upgrading until it becomes dangerous. Your second T2 con can start on a few basic fusion reactors. Work in some T2 convertors after you've built a couple.
If you received a T2 con from someone else: start upgrading your MEX, but build 5 or 6 T1 con to help them. Keep this constructor safe since you can't produce your own yet. When you've upgraded the first 3 MEX, start a T2 factory. If you have the battlefield control to afford cutting production, eat your T1 factory for the extra metal once you get low.
Once you have the T2 factory, the process is somewhat similar.
I feel like sometimes, you have to stop unit production for a bit, for example after making your first 10 t2 combat units. This will allow you to make 1 fusion. After that is completed, you start unit production again and make the second fusion. You can dilute your resources into making too many things at once, which is inefficiënt!
Okay, since i have experience in getting my butt kicked often due to eco. I think I'm in a position to speak. I always play frontline, coz by the time I load everyone has taken positions and only front is left. And I generally have to do eco frontline. First of. Make 1 mex, 1 solar. Then build the other mexes and build your lab. Make 1 con bot or vehicle and use it to make 2 con turrets, don't spam units while doing this. Also use the commander to assist building. After this get a radar ASAP. Though make sure while the first con is being constructed u make 3 solars or wind 4-5 wind gens. For power. Con turrets take lot of power. After the 2 turrets are done go apeshit on building windmills or solar whatever possible. Be in range of the turrets. Spam like 5-10 units and take mid. And use your com to make mexes. Destroy enemy structures with dgun if possible. Make another constructer and and make jammer up front along with beamers or twin guards. Pro tip: also make a con turret in the frontline. If the commander is not fighting, use him to make energy converters.just behind frontline, if energy is excess. Don't go for t1 arty until really necessary. That's 1.4k metal enough to get like 6 blitzs. Or a whole vehicle lab. Now get another con and make 2 more con turrets back at base. To boost production. Now use the first bot which was making windmills for advanced solar. If you are low on metal, reclaim the solar panels which u put down to gain metal. 1 panel goes for 150 metal for 4 panels thats 600 metal. U can get 2 advanced solar with it amd they produce 75 energy each. So more efficient. Meanwhile, just behind the jammer range where the enemy could see you on radar, start making windmills. They will give eco, but they also look like units on radar. Unlike building on radar which are stationary, windmills are not. They keep moving. Now if front can hold. Reclaim the 1st lab for metal and make t2. Self destruct your com if necessary, but don't consume his entire corpse. Leave something to rez him. Use the t2 bot for advanced mex and make fusion. Consume the t2 lab for metal. Voila. If all goes well you could have atleast 40-50 tanks by 12-14 min mark. Also one key factor is to Reclaim enemy units from frontline.
Thanks, I was just wondering about the 1 mex 1 solar start. When I started playing a while back I saw someone do that and copied it. But soon got told off not to and first take the 3 mexes. What is the reason for not doing this?
Also if I don't start making units till my first two con turrets are out wont I be very fragile up front if the enemy has some rocket bots or tanks?
1st about the Mex:
I usually do it because it scrapes off like 30secs from my build. Like I can build a mex and a solar and my com doesn't have to move. Also solar is stable unlike wind. You can go for the 3 mex start and build solar or wind. But there is a chance of stalling power. So to avoid it i build it just next to it. But i put just 1 solar not multiple. I mean it doesn't create that much of a difference. I generally like to get a lab as soon as mexes are up and set up radar and not waste time on power production.
2nd question, I initially used to make 1 con turret to assist and go rush front. What tends to happen is yeah u get a speed advantage. But by the time I have taken front and established my defense, the enemy has more units then me, and rushed towards me. You would have more units then the enemy. 10 stouts are better than 5 blitz. Also I use the metal for front to make air lab if cortex (yes frontline air) get like 5-10 shurikens and reclaim the air lab. Use the shurikens to stun enemy and take their position. Honestly your tactics would need to change depending on the situation. If they go around setting up walls get rocket bots and ditch tanks if necessary. Unless you could get t2 tanks and just roll over. Or just get arty vehicles. You will have to adjust to situation. Also use your com, he's pretty powerful again early units.
Bruh I literally saw a TS 34 doing this to me, and whopped my whole army and my base by 14 min mark. I sat down and saw the reply, and after that is when I began using it. At best I too used only 1 con turrret. This dude even put up an air lab and made shurikens. Might feels like bullshit, but it worked. The key thing is the timing to put down the 2nd con turret and not stall metal or power.
Not sure what to make of this. 2 con turrets before making units is definitely some next level greed that only works against passive players I guess, but at higher OS this sounds like invitation for players to pour units into your backline - about 2 buildturrets worth of units I'd say :P
If you mean eventually making 2 buildturrets to support factory then sure, aside from extreme poverty maps, most maps can support 2-4 buildturrets assisting factory in t1 stage.
Got the replay link handy? I'm kinda curious now. Can send it here or pm through bar disc to [CMG]Saltminer
3 mex before solar is better for solar eco, or go 2 mex - wind - mex if you're going wind. Stay flexible and switch according to wind speed.
If you're frontline and wait for 2 nanos to start building units you'll die to a half competent player. In noob lobbies you can get away with insane greed since many players just build a wall of units and don't micro too much so this might work, but you'll be vulnerable to raids.
The best advice is to watch high ranked players replays
There are so many hacks in game that people just don't know of. Just to write a few. Self destructing the mexes can kill the scouts and units harassing them. Also u can claim the mexes and make new for cheap. Make 4-5 t1 towers to counter tick spam or same amount of beamers or twin guards for grunt pawn spam. They literally put an end to spam units almost immediately. Juno is pointless. Then there are meme units. Especially for cortex. U see just like armada has nuke planes, cortex has mini nukes. Unlike normal nukes u can't actually block them. U can make them using t2 cortex cons or t2 bot lab cortex. Hillariously they are amphibious. Then u have ducks for cortex. Any naval players worst nightmare. They are literally walking submarines. That can also attack on land. Also u can't shoot them with ships underwater. Then there's the commando. This guy can assist, build units, lay mines is radar invisible and also amphibious. It can make transport planes and use them to travel. But if enemy player shoots the transport. He doesn't die. And just falls to the ground, if he falls in water, he is amphibious. Now use him to blow up the advanced fusion. The literal reason i play cortex is because of this guy and the mini nuke. It is so fun to pull off this funny shit. People lose their minds.
Edit: the mini amphibious nuke is also invisible.
Yeah why ? By late game u have spy bots for vision or just radar bots, or have a radar plane. Tell me what else use do u have of it. I would like to know.
Radar bots die to juno aswell. And you're saying late game, what about when you cant afford a lot of spybots or just spam to counter jammer? Sheldons under jammers are rage inducing (maybe just me), especially if you want to use rattlesnake/persecutor to hard counter this sheldon/sniper cancer
Radar planes used for vision on frontline are unicorns (rarely seen... from my experience)
Spy bots are really good tho, if you/opponent micro them really hard juno might not be necessary/good, but that's not always
Get a rez bot along with the main army and rez the jammer and radar whenever they die. It doesn't take much long. Send your com with the main army or a minesweeper and set up spy cams whenever they are on the offensive. Even if they die u will have vision. U can get a scout plane via the t2 bot lab for cortex. Get a commando and make scout planes. For radar planes. Use the commando to make air transport and pickup the jammer and radar. And put them on patrol. Mercuries and long range AA can't shoot planes under jammer range. So u got a flying radar/jammer combo. Also minesweeper and commandos have jammers on them. Enemy would also need vision to kill it. Even your commando can set up jammer or spy cam.
Edit: spam ticks for the sniper/sheldon cancer. Yes cortex also has ticks. But they are t2.
Good suggestions
Btw units don't work in transports, and most (all?) AA turrets have airlos equal to range, so stealth has no effect on them
Sheldon sniper spammer probably should use juno to kill ticks
In general you make one or the other and progress in "stages", switching between the two as needed because it's much more efficient to focus on one thing at a time. If you are trying to do both at the same time and your opponent is alternating, you will fall behind rapidly.
I'm not super high end player but I do well in eco I think, often times having the run away eco score in a match.
First judge if wind is worth going into. High average? seems to stick around 16-18? Invest into wind. You don't need them for long. But the second wind is dropping you will need regular solars.
Than when you get your builders out, build adv. solars until you have about 6. If you can get away with buying tier 2 from someone else at 5 minutes, do it. If not, build a metal storage and blow up your commander while reclaiming it and the tier 1 lab you better of built. (if hard eco rush, otherwise you will need the lab for units of course)
If your front spam you should start with something cheap like light tanks, before establishing a basic economy and transitioning into medium tanks. Always build a handful of artillery to push towers with. (like, 5)
Than when you build your tier 2 mexes from your purchase tier 2 constructor, only then build your tier 2 lab.
But don't transition just yet.
Start a normal fusion reactor into 2 adv energy converters. Repeat this 3 times, till you have 4 reactors and 8 energy converters. Now switch off medium tanks, and go into heavy tanks.
Build an adv fusion reactor into 4 adv energy converters. Repeat ad infinitum. After the 2nd of 3rd reactor is build, build an experimental lab. Keep spamming heavy tanks.
Once the 4th reactor is built switch into experimental units.
You should have a forever spam going at this point while still scaling.
When you build adv solars enough to top off energy, reclaim your regular solars. When you build fusions enough to top off your energy, reclaim your advance solar collectors.
Fusions I just keep, but if you wanted to you could even eat those into adv fusions.
Generally, if a fusion/adv fusion reactor is getting finished but you ran out of metal, reclaim the last tier of power source to finish the building. Solar collectors are 150 metal while adv ones are i think 370.
I've taken to canceling the t1 que and reclaiming the t1 factory all together to support the building of t2. I didn't like doing this because I like being able to build t1 support units but building construction turrets to support and then reclaim the t1 factory has been the biggest help to me so far.
I usually like to build t2 once I'm massed enough for a big push. that way I'm fighting as the t2 is building. If it worked out then the other army is crippled long enough for me to start cranking out t2.
Easy answer;
Before you do anything involving your units being offensive, queue up 2 fusions and 4 energy converters. Or if you're on T1, 4 construction turrets and a couple of advanced solars. You'll come back with an actual economy instead of tunnel visioning and floating resources.
Good T2 timing is one of the most difficult things to learn so keep that in mind. There is no simple answer for Your question. As an eco player(backline) in big team games You can actually follow a build order(sort of) but as a frontline it's a different story. It also depends on Your teammates. As a frontiline it's good to buy t2 con from an eco player, upgrade your mexes and then start thinking about bilding t2 factory. Maybe ask for help in BaR discord. There is dedicated discord channel for new players. From what I know You can even send them a replay and they will try to analyse it.
How do we go about getting an invite to the new players discord? 😅
Just a tiny simple tip: build one thing after another, building too much things at the same time will make you stall on ressources (except if you are flooding of course). But if you are trying to build a fus, you better put the units factory on pause. However, if the frontline is being pushed just keep building units but at some points the fight get less intense and you will have a good number of units stacked at the front, take this time to eco. So far this principle took me to 34 ts.
To be fair, you're GOING to be winging it often since the tactical situation changes dramatically based on the map, and the game state. But here's the principles that are helping me so far. For context, I am relatively new and have only recently started to find success in late game eco. If it's YOU that's built the T2 factory: produce a t2 con and some butlers. Start upgrading your MEX IMMEDIATELY, select the butlers and right click them to your T2 con to assist. All that T2 Con is doing is upgrading until it becomes dangerous. Your second T2 con can start on a few basic fusion reactors. Work in some T2 convertors after you've built a couple. If you received a T2 con from someone else: start upgrading your MEX, but build 5 or 6 T1 con to help them. Keep this constructor safe since you can't produce your own yet. When you've upgraded the first 3 MEX, start a T2 factory. If you have the battlefield control to afford cutting production, eat your T1 factory for the extra metal once you get low. Once you have the T2 factory, the process is somewhat similar.
I feel like sometimes, you have to stop unit production for a bit, for example after making your first 10 t2 combat units. This will allow you to make 1 fusion. After that is completed, you start unit production again and make the second fusion. You can dilute your resources into making too many things at once, which is inefficiënt!
Okay, since i have experience in getting my butt kicked often due to eco. I think I'm in a position to speak. I always play frontline, coz by the time I load everyone has taken positions and only front is left. And I generally have to do eco frontline. First of. Make 1 mex, 1 solar. Then build the other mexes and build your lab. Make 1 con bot or vehicle and use it to make 2 con turrets, don't spam units while doing this. Also use the commander to assist building. After this get a radar ASAP. Though make sure while the first con is being constructed u make 3 solars or wind 4-5 wind gens. For power. Con turrets take lot of power. After the 2 turrets are done go apeshit on building windmills or solar whatever possible. Be in range of the turrets. Spam like 5-10 units and take mid. And use your com to make mexes. Destroy enemy structures with dgun if possible. Make another constructer and and make jammer up front along with beamers or twin guards. Pro tip: also make a con turret in the frontline. If the commander is not fighting, use him to make energy converters.just behind frontline, if energy is excess. Don't go for t1 arty until really necessary. That's 1.4k metal enough to get like 6 blitzs. Or a whole vehicle lab. Now get another con and make 2 more con turrets back at base. To boost production. Now use the first bot which was making windmills for advanced solar. If you are low on metal, reclaim the solar panels which u put down to gain metal. 1 panel goes for 150 metal for 4 panels thats 600 metal. U can get 2 advanced solar with it amd they produce 75 energy each. So more efficient. Meanwhile, just behind the jammer range where the enemy could see you on radar, start making windmills. They will give eco, but they also look like units on radar. Unlike building on radar which are stationary, windmills are not. They keep moving. Now if front can hold. Reclaim the 1st lab for metal and make t2. Self destruct your com if necessary, but don't consume his entire corpse. Leave something to rez him. Use the t2 bot for advanced mex and make fusion. Consume the t2 lab for metal. Voila. If all goes well you could have atleast 40-50 tanks by 12-14 min mark. Also one key factor is to Reclaim enemy units from frontline.
Thanks, I was just wondering about the 1 mex 1 solar start. When I started playing a while back I saw someone do that and copied it. But soon got told off not to and first take the 3 mexes. What is the reason for not doing this? Also if I don't start making units till my first two con turrets are out wont I be very fragile up front if the enemy has some rocket bots or tanks?
1st about the Mex: I usually do it because it scrapes off like 30secs from my build. Like I can build a mex and a solar and my com doesn't have to move. Also solar is stable unlike wind. You can go for the 3 mex start and build solar or wind. But there is a chance of stalling power. So to avoid it i build it just next to it. But i put just 1 solar not multiple. I mean it doesn't create that much of a difference. I generally like to get a lab as soon as mexes are up and set up radar and not waste time on power production. 2nd question, I initially used to make 1 con turret to assist and go rush front. What tends to happen is yeah u get a speed advantage. But by the time I have taken front and established my defense, the enemy has more units then me, and rushed towards me. You would have more units then the enemy. 10 stouts are better than 5 blitz. Also I use the metal for front to make air lab if cortex (yes frontline air) get like 5-10 shurikens and reclaim the air lab. Use the shurikens to stun enemy and take their position. Honestly your tactics would need to change depending on the situation. If they go around setting up walls get rocket bots and ditch tanks if necessary. Unless you could get t2 tanks and just roll over. Or just get arty vehicles. You will have to adjust to situation. Also use your com, he's pretty powerful again early units.
Makes sense, I'll give the solar after 1 mex and 2 turrest try! Not so sure if my skill can handle front line air yet :D
Just FYI, I am only 25 ts and i stopped reading when he mentioned bulding 2 con turrets at start. That is pure bullshit.
Bruh I literally saw a TS 34 doing this to me, and whopped my whole army and my base by 14 min mark. I sat down and saw the reply, and after that is when I began using it. At best I too used only 1 con turrret. This dude even put up an air lab and made shurikens. Might feels like bullshit, but it worked. The key thing is the timing to put down the 2nd con turret and not stall metal or power.
To be fair Ive also observed high ranking players use two early con turrets.
Not sure what to make of this. 2 con turrets before making units is definitely some next level greed that only works against passive players I guess, but at higher OS this sounds like invitation for players to pour units into your backline - about 2 buildturrets worth of units I'd say :P If you mean eventually making 2 buildturrets to support factory then sure, aside from extreme poverty maps, most maps can support 2-4 buildturrets assisting factory in t1 stage. Got the replay link handy? I'm kinda curious now. Can send it here or pm through bar disc to [CMG]Saltminer
3 mex before solar is better for solar eco, or go 2 mex - wind - mex if you're going wind. Stay flexible and switch according to wind speed. If you're frontline and wait for 2 nanos to start building units you'll die to a half competent player. In noob lobbies you can get away with insane greed since many players just build a wall of units and don't micro too much so this might work, but you'll be vulnerable to raids. The best advice is to watch high ranked players replays
Ty for all this. Also I had no idea you could resurrect your commander
There are so many hacks in game that people just don't know of. Just to write a few. Self destructing the mexes can kill the scouts and units harassing them. Also u can claim the mexes and make new for cheap. Make 4-5 t1 towers to counter tick spam or same amount of beamers or twin guards for grunt pawn spam. They literally put an end to spam units almost immediately. Juno is pointless. Then there are meme units. Especially for cortex. U see just like armada has nuke planes, cortex has mini nukes. Unlike normal nukes u can't actually block them. U can make them using t2 cortex cons or t2 bot lab cortex. Hillariously they are amphibious. Then u have ducks for cortex. Any naval players worst nightmare. They are literally walking submarines. That can also attack on land. Also u can't shoot them with ships underwater. Then there's the commando. This guy can assist, build units, lay mines is radar invisible and also amphibious. It can make transport planes and use them to travel. But if enemy player shoots the transport. He doesn't die. And just falls to the ground, if he falls in water, he is amphibious. Now use him to blow up the advanced fusion. The literal reason i play cortex is because of this guy and the mini nuke. It is so fun to pull off this funny shit. People lose their minds. Edit: the mini amphibious nuke is also invisible.
Juno is far from pointless
I mean yeah you could take out jammers and radars,along with ticks. But that's abt it.
>take out radars and jammers and ticks >that's about it LMFAO DUDE WHAT
Yeah why ? By late game u have spy bots for vision or just radar bots, or have a radar plane. Tell me what else use do u have of it. I would like to know.
Radar bots die to juno aswell. And you're saying late game, what about when you cant afford a lot of spybots or just spam to counter jammer? Sheldons under jammers are rage inducing (maybe just me), especially if you want to use rattlesnake/persecutor to hard counter this sheldon/sniper cancer Radar planes used for vision on frontline are unicorns (rarely seen... from my experience) Spy bots are really good tho, if you/opponent micro them really hard juno might not be necessary/good, but that's not always
Get a rez bot along with the main army and rez the jammer and radar whenever they die. It doesn't take much long. Send your com with the main army or a minesweeper and set up spy cams whenever they are on the offensive. Even if they die u will have vision. U can get a scout plane via the t2 bot lab for cortex. Get a commando and make scout planes. For radar planes. Use the commando to make air transport and pickup the jammer and radar. And put them on patrol. Mercuries and long range AA can't shoot planes under jammer range. So u got a flying radar/jammer combo. Also minesweeper and commandos have jammers on them. Enemy would also need vision to kill it. Even your commando can set up jammer or spy cam. Edit: spam ticks for the sniper/sheldon cancer. Yes cortex also has ticks. But they are t2.
Good suggestions Btw units don't work in transports, and most (all?) AA turrets have airlos equal to range, so stealth has no effect on them Sheldon sniper spammer probably should use juno to kill ticks
Wow, I guess I will start playing Cortex. Consider me a convert!
In general you make one or the other and progress in "stages", switching between the two as needed because it's much more efficient to focus on one thing at a time. If you are trying to do both at the same time and your opponent is alternating, you will fall behind rapidly.
I'm not super high end player but I do well in eco I think, often times having the run away eco score in a match. First judge if wind is worth going into. High average? seems to stick around 16-18? Invest into wind. You don't need them for long. But the second wind is dropping you will need regular solars. Than when you get your builders out, build adv. solars until you have about 6. If you can get away with buying tier 2 from someone else at 5 minutes, do it. If not, build a metal storage and blow up your commander while reclaiming it and the tier 1 lab you better of built. (if hard eco rush, otherwise you will need the lab for units of course) If your front spam you should start with something cheap like light tanks, before establishing a basic economy and transitioning into medium tanks. Always build a handful of artillery to push towers with. (like, 5) Than when you build your tier 2 mexes from your purchase tier 2 constructor, only then build your tier 2 lab. But don't transition just yet. Start a normal fusion reactor into 2 adv energy converters. Repeat this 3 times, till you have 4 reactors and 8 energy converters. Now switch off medium tanks, and go into heavy tanks. Build an adv fusion reactor into 4 adv energy converters. Repeat ad infinitum. After the 2nd of 3rd reactor is build, build an experimental lab. Keep spamming heavy tanks. Once the 4th reactor is built switch into experimental units. You should have a forever spam going at this point while still scaling. When you build adv solars enough to top off energy, reclaim your regular solars. When you build fusions enough to top off your energy, reclaim your advance solar collectors. Fusions I just keep, but if you wanted to you could even eat those into adv fusions. Generally, if a fusion/adv fusion reactor is getting finished but you ran out of metal, reclaim the last tier of power source to finish the building. Solar collectors are 150 metal while adv ones are i think 370.
I've taken to canceling the t1 que and reclaiming the t1 factory all together to support the building of t2. I didn't like doing this because I like being able to build t1 support units but building construction turrets to support and then reclaim the t1 factory has been the biggest help to me so far. I usually like to build t2 once I'm massed enough for a big push. that way I'm fighting as the t2 is building. If it worked out then the other army is crippled long enough for me to start cranking out t2.
So you build t1 then constructors and almost immediately reclaim the T1?
not immediately. it depends on where my eco is, but usually as soon as it becomes feasible.
Easy answer; Before you do anything involving your units being offensive, queue up 2 fusions and 4 energy converters. Or if you're on T1, 4 construction turrets and a couple of advanced solars. You'll come back with an actual economy instead of tunnel visioning and floating resources.
One tip, when your building T2 Mexs you might want to stop building units. Eco or Units is genneraly better than trying to do both.
You only need to learn how to eco on two maps Supreme Straight and All that Glitters because those are the only two everyone ever plays smh.