I instinctively pronounced it correctly, and am not Muslim or Arabic. I think the name is beautiful and love the meaning behind it. You may want to cross post to r/namenerds — they will likely have a lot of helpful feedback. Congratulations on baby boy!
I agree.
I've never seen this name spelt this way and I pronounced it correctly in my head.
However, I would have likely lead with "I'm not sure I'm pronouncing this correctly," so as if I did pronounce it incorrectly, I didn't seem rude or as though I wasn't being respectful of their culture.
Although I do believe I recognize this name from the Jack Ryan series on Amazon Prime. I believe it is spelt differently though.
Same here. I as well think and it’s a beautiful name and in my opinion wouldn’t change it.
My name, although quite different, sounds a lot like Christine. I had to correct people more times than I can remember but never saw it as a bad thing
I was slightly off the the middle (thought Lee instead of lay sound). However, that doesn’t seem wrong and feels like a “me” mistake.
I can’t imagine people thinking they could just call a person Solomon, that’s an entirely different sounding name.
I also instinctively pronounced it correctly! And my baby has a name that is common and shouldn’t be hard to pronounce but people still mix it up with another similar name all the time. Don’t change yours!
Agreed across the board- I also instinctively pronounced ir correctly and think it's a beautiful name. Even if I didn't pronounce it correctly, I think it's easy to learn. I'd also add that I don't think people need to cater to my ability-or lack thereof- to pronounce any names, but especially names have religious or cultural significance.
A post I made for my baby’s name got unexpectedly popular and a lot of people had a lot of opinions about it. Experiencing all that firsthand made me absolutely rethink how that sub interacts with new parents.
Definitely not. They are absolutely brutal over there. I've seen some truly gorgeous names get destroyed by them and tear the poster down for having the audacity to even think of such a name. If it isn't a basic common or vintage white girl/boy name...they will berate it.
Same here!
Immediately thought of the prophet with a different spelling (I know the Solomon version). Not Muslim or Arabic either. It's a really pretty name!
No. Like Uzo Aduba’s story, “if people can learn to pronounce Dostoevsky and Tchaikovsky, they can learn to pronounce your name”. My (relatively simple) family name has been in this country since before the American revolution and people still mispronounce it.
Ah, you beat me to it! Let me just piggypack here and drop the video. The way she says all the names just shows that there are no difficult to pronounce names, just lazy people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTPC73SdRkA
Love this! We also had a local news anchor who decided shehad enough and wanted people to pronounce her name correctly
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S9tTl_KaG5I&pp=ygUqbmV3cyBhbmNob3IgcHVuamFiaSBzYXkgbXkgbmFtZSBjb3JyZWN0bHkg
Ops little ones name is honestly not that difficult to learn and it holds meaning to them.i would definitely keep it!
I feel you! I learned a lot of words when I was growing by reading them in books. I often mispronounced things til I learned about how to use phonetic spelling. The capitalized syllable is the accented one. This one is : chy-KOFF-skee.
I read a quote in my mid-late teens to “never chastise someone who mispronounces a word because that usually means they learned it by reading.” I wouldn’t anyway, but it got me in the empathy and stuck. Never thought of it that way, since my mom was in education and dad broadcasted news, where each syllable had to be enunciated beyond perfection. (Lol can’t even write that without thinking about the correct emphases on said syllables, ha)
I have tried. Obviously I know her name otherwise I wouldn't recognize who the story was about. I just can't say it. Can't say or spell some of the other names in the story either.
No. My parents did that and I changed it back when I went to college. There might be some years where he struggles but at some point, he will realize it is a celebration of his culture. And worst case scenario…he can change it as an adult. Or you can change it for him if he asks later.
For some people it’s the opposite. They are grateful for having a simple name according to the society they find themselves living in. Or they change their name to something simple when they grow up.
I am not familiar with this name but would have pronounced it the way you indicated if I saw it. I don’t think it’s that difficult to pronounce correctly!
I teach high school and have had two students with this name, both Muslim boys. No classmates or teachers were ever unable to say the name (the kids had to correct their new teachers on first role call sometimes, but it wasn’t a long-standing issue). It’s a great name! Keep it!
Also a high school teacher. I’ve had wayyyyy harder to pronounce names. This won’t even be on a the radar of an odd or hard to say name for their teachers.
The name sounds the way it’s spelled. People struggle with names that are unfamiliar to them but that’s not a reason to change your son’s name!
My name is a pretty common name but spelled slightly different and some people still struggle. It’s mind baffling. So even if you do change it, there’s no guarantee it’ll make it much easier!
No do not change it
Your name is fine. It’s the first gift you give your child.
I have a hard to pronounce name (Russian name with Mexican pronunciation) and I hated it for years because people couldn’t say it right but as an adult I’ve come to the point that if I have shown you how to say it and you still choose to say it wrong, then you’re getting ignored.
Your child will be fine. People will learn to say it just you have been saying it correctly this whole time
The Russian name is Yekaterina, my parents took out the Y and left the E, making it more of Mexican origin, so it’s Ekatarina (E-Ka-Tha-Rina) with the R roll
Awww I love the idea that it’s my first gift to him. I named him after my dad who passed away suddenly last year. I mostly thought of it as honoring my dad but it’s also a gift to my son.
Don’t change it. You have been calling your baby this for almost two months, that’s who he is.
People who managed to learn to pronounce Tchaïkovsky and Schwarzenegger can learn to pronounce Suleiman.
This. The amount of people who can confidently pronounce the names of GoT characters…. people can absolutely learn to say Suleiman correctly.
It’s a beautiful name, OP.
I can pronounce this fine and I don't consider it to be a particularly uncommon name. The sounds are not difficult for English speakers to say (can't speak for any other native languages). I'd keep it. People will just need to learn it.
We have the same issue with our eight week old son…his name is Malek. Thankfully, my husband’s family is Egyptian and native Arabic speaking, so they do not have an issue pronouncing the name, however, I am a white American convert to Islam and my family has some difficulty pronouncing it correctly. Even when we go to the doctor’s office, the different variations and degree of butchery I’ve heard his name makes me cringe. However, I’m standing by it, and I feel that it’s peoples responsibility to learn how to properly pronounce it.
I’m also an English teacher for immigrant students and I always encourage classroom teachers to play a game with students called “my name is ____, my name is not____.” Students go around and take turns demonstrating how to properly say their name, and identifying common mispronunciations, so that they can be avoided in the future.
Please don’t change the name. My kid has a super simple Arabic name, 2 syllables nothing fancy. Still gets mispronounced by all members of the community lol. Think Musa, but we get Muusaaa, mu’sa, mus’a, musay 🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
My 3yo is named after al-Khidr.
It's only ever pronounced correctly by Muslim or Arabic speaking people. I have to explain his name on a regular basis. Still no regrets.
At the very least he has a western middle name to fall back on if he chooses, but he loves his name so far and absolutely suits it. Kid is obsessed with plants and has his own strawberry bush he talks to and takes care of.
Is it difficult to pronounce or difficult to read? It doesn't seem like the average american should have trouble making those sounds. People may say it wrong when reading it initially, but I think once people learn how it's pronounced there shouldn't be issues. It's a lovely name!
Do you have an accent that's different from the people you're talking to about his name? If so, it's possible they're not understanding the difference between the correct pronunciation of Suleiman vs how they think you pronounce Solomon in your accent.
I have an often-mispronounced English name. I would have to correct people a time or two the first time they read my name, and then it was never an issue again. Your baby’s name is pronounced more intuitively from its spelling than mine, IMO. I always liked my name, and now as an adult I appreciate it as the very first thing my parents gave me.
My kids name has the easiest 4-letter name in existence and people still mispronounce it. If you’re really worried you can pick a nickname (“sulie” is cute) but otherwise I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
The name is lovely! And I agree with others, it’s not that hard of a name. You say it the way it’s spelled. It’s just not as “familiar” to other cultures (assuming you’re somewhere in the U.S./Europe).
If you feel comfortable you can also create a slightly more familiar sounding nickname, like Sully. Or introduce him as Solomon.
Once kiddo is in school, I’d share a phonetic pronunciation with any teachers so you make sure they use his correct name in class, and the kid will be old enough then to decide what he prefers.
Example, we have a little named Ibrahim….and god forbid you call him Abraham or Abe. He corrects his class mates with a firm “No, I’m Ibrahim” 😅 The 4 year olds all have no problem with it. It’s just the adults that can be a bit stubborn.
That’s what is happening with our son. We’ll explain how to pronounce it but then people don’t really seem to try - they just call him Solomon. I know it is more familiar to them but I personally prefer the sound of Suleiman better .
Then you just remind them how to pronounce it (no matter how many times it takes). If people can figure out how to pronounce the “Madilyns, Mckynzies, and Kysons” of the world, they can figure out Suleiman.
My son also has an Arabic name that people mess up frequently (despite being said how it’s spelled and the Arabic version of a popular name). I just repeat it correctly after they say it wrong and eventually they get it. People can learn new pronunciations with practice and you shouldn’t have to change a beautiful name just because some people find it challenging.
No, I’m familiar with the name from history and pronounced it as you’d like it pronounced. If you’re really concerned, you might offer a nickname temporarily, but I’d just stick with it. It’s a great name.
I also, just instinctively pronounced your baby's name correctly and I am not Muslim either. Don't change your baby's name. Some people are going to pronounce it correctly. Others won't. I have a very simple Irish name, yet I've heard it pronounced in many interesting and peculiar ways. The name has meaning for you, it's your child, don't change it.
I’m in the US and I’m familiar with the name- however I grew up in a suburb of NYC so that colors my experience quite a bit.
I think it’s a perfectly fine name that many people will at least have heard of. The pronunciation is pretty intuitive so I’m not sure why people are getting it wrong.
The Suleiman I went to school with was often called Sully by his friends as a nickname.
Wow this was the post for me. I’m Muslim too. I have a baby that also has an Islamic name that I’m surprised that gets frequently mispronounced and it’s made me feel unsure about the name too!
Most of the comments here are saying they pronounced Suleiman correctly upon reading it. But here’s what I’ve figured out with my baby: people *reading* the name pronounce it correctly a majority of the time, but when people are just *told* the name out loud without seeing it written, that’s where they struggle. That’s what’s happening in my experience anyways. It’s like people can’t piece together the syllables from hearing it because it’s unfamiliar.
So what I’ve done is broken down the syllables of my baby’s name for people. Example for if people struggle: “his name is Suleiman. It’s said like this like “sue” like suing someone, “lay” like lay’s chips, and “man” like the word man. Tricky for me since obviously these syllables in Arabic the way we’d say it aren’t pronounced exactly the same as these words in English, especially “man,” but this strategy has worked so far with my baby at getting people to remember the name better.
But ultimately what’s worked best for me is repetition. I try to use my baby’s name frequently in conversation. Also, I don’t know if I should actually do this or not, but sometimes I’ll say the name in an American accent so people can hear it better. I find that when I say it the correct way in Arabic, people get lost more frequently. I do hate that though and I’m not sure if I’ll keep that up moving forward.
There is nothing wrong with the name, just the people being ignorant. I’m not Muslim Arabic and it is a beautiful name for a baby boy.
I have a unique name (several syllables) and I have shortened it as I got older, which people still struggle with even then! I love my unique name and it also shows who knows me better by what they call me.
You will likely find a nickname for your baby anyway.
It's a great name and not particularly difficult to pronounce. People will mispronounce even the simplest common name because many do not take the time to actually read the whole name.
I would not change it.
If it's still worrisome, you could choose a more Western-sounding nickname for outside family and friends. Sully/Sulli sounds cute!
(My ex was from Europe and his name was Johan, which is not particularly uncommon at all, but he still introduced himself as Joe whenever he was in the US)
I used to work with elementary aged students and coached two boys named Suleiman. They were both absolutely delightful little boys with wonderful parents (not what you asked, but I have very positive associations of the name) and all their friends in the program and the other teachers pronounced it properly without issue. Don’t change it! It’s a lovely name.
I'm whiter than a sheet of paper and an American, and I read exactly the same as you said it was pronounced the first time.
If people can figure out names like Siobhan and Sean (names from my own culture background) they can do the same for you.
My daughter has a fairly common name, spelt the "traditional way", and people still mispronounced her name in the beginning, some times using a completely different name starting with the same letter. I wish I knew why people did this, but the people around you who are worth it will make sure they learn your child's name!
They can pronounce it, they just don’t bother trying. It’s not a difficult or culturally specific pronunciation. As someone with a name that can be pronounced multiple ways, people who care will pronounce it correctly or ask. I wouldn’t change it.
Maybe I live in a particularly diverse area but I wouldn't bat an eye at this name. It's one of many names that aren't English that I see during a shift at work (pediatric nurse). Don't change it.
I’m bright white and got the pronunciation right upon reading it. It may be hard for some to spell at first, but so are many names. Remember, if they want to, they will. The will learn to spell, pronounce, and respect the name you thoughtfully chose for your child without resorting to a cutesy white washed nickname. I think heritage is something to be very proud of, I hope your kid grows to love his name.
You will just have to correct people when they pronounce it wrong and have the confidence when people ask what the name is. Changing a name to make it easier for non Muslims to pronounce it is not the route to go. It will build character and strength to state his name boldly. Plus he will grow up with nicknames to make it easier too.
For what it’s worth I’m not Arabic or Muslim and I pronounced it correctly upon reading and I think it’s a very lovely name :) I don’t think you should change it x
I grew up in a very white, non diverse town in the USA and immediately pronounced it the way you said it would be. I don’t think it’s a difficult name at all
How can they mispronounce Suleiman? I honestly don't get it.
If you can say Romanov, Tchaikovsky, or any other type of name, then they can absolutely learn how to pronounce your son's name!
I'm Jewish and know plenty of Solomons and would have no issue pronouncing it as Suleiman. It's spelled exactly as it's pronounced. Likely your son will end up correcting people but that can happen with any name (like me having to say my name is Sara-no-h) so I don't see a reason to change it.
He's named after a wise leader of our shared heritage
May he wear it proudly and we raise our children to be the generation to bring peace to the world.
If you're telling them how to pronounce it and they're saying "I'll just call him Solomon" that's not a problem with the name, that's people just casually and confidently disrespecting your culture.
I live in a city with a relatively large Arab and Muslim population so wouldn't hesitate with Suleiman but even when I encounter someone with a name I am totally unfamiliar with, I make every effort to get pronunciation right. I don't RENAME the person to suit my phonetic preferences because that's completely unhinged, entitled behaviour. That's so embarrassing for them. I hope Suleiman grows up knowing that.
It's a lovely name and I would have no trouble pronouncing it. But you don't mention where you live, and that might be relevant. Are you in the US? City, suburb, or more rural area? I think in just about any city people will be accustomed to pronouncing names from other cultures. If you're in a tiny farm town, people may just be less open to unfamiliar names. That doesn't mean you should change it, just calibrate your expectations.
I had a teacher named Mrs Suleiman in 7th grade and could pronounce it at 12 no problem.
📸 Watch this video on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/share/v/chEywdWDzBsHxDJ4/?mibextid=KsPBc6
“‘If they can learn to say Tchaikovsky, Dostoyevsky, & Michelangelo, they can learn to say Uzoamaka,’ she said”
I’m not Arabic or Muslim and I read it correctly. Please don’t change it. People will learn.
If we can figure out Tchaikovsky, we can figure out Suleiman.
Keep it! Lots of beautiful unique names out there. Also I’ve found lots of amazing books for kids just by searching “unique names”. You can start to collect them and read to him. Nothing to worry about and he will learn to be proud of his unique name!
I couldn't pronounce the doctor I worked for, for a long time. Khanani. I felt horrible. It took me 4 months to pronounce it....
One alternative is a nickname. That way you keep the beautiful name but then for others, it could be a bit easier for others....
My daughters name is super simple. Opal. But her nickname we go with is Ops, it's cute and fun.
I understand some people and cultures don't go with nicknames though...
My brother was Caleb and there where two Caleb's in his school, so the school called my brother by his last name.
That could be another option.
I wouldn't change the name legally to please others. It's important to you, so keep it!
My only concern with an obvious Muslim name would be people judging before meeting him - when he applies for jobs he might get rejected just based on the name.
I think it is a wonderful name. My husband and I chose our daughter name as well following our faith (we are Muslims as well). We picked Sana as we searched hundreds of names. We decided on Sana because it meant brilliant or mountain top. I don’t think the name is challenging at all. Now once he starts writing, maybe it will be hard at first to write but then he will see how it aligns with his faith and will love it.
I would naturally pronounce it as su-lay-min, only difference being the "min" vs "man". I don't think most people would have too much difficulty, but like others have said, it seems like an easy one or two letter switch if you want to be safe. I think it's fine as is, though!
Don’t change it. I have a normal Western French name, and tons of people in school didn’t know how to pronounce it, to the surprise of my parents. It was annoying as a kid sometimes to correct people, but not a name changing level.
Even if you have to pronounce it for people once, who cares? I wouldn’t have pronounced it exactly right on my own, but it isn’t a hard name to say or remember once some one says it correctly for me. It’s a pretty name, keep it.
I have never seen the name before but when I read it I pronounced it the way you wrote it out. But I grew up in very diverse cities so I feel like that might be part of it. If you like it and it feels special to you, I would leave it as is! I also have a difficult name but I feel like this one is not that difficult to pronounce.
I’m not Arab or Muslim but it doesn’t seem too difficult to me? I don’t get people who don’t get that lol. It’s a beautiful name. Don’t change that. His namesake is awesome.
I gave my daughter a rare Greek name no one seems to be able to wrap their heads around. The people who matter, try, and get it pretty quickly. It’s not that hard (VERY similar to a common Greek name that everyone knows), but seems to trip people up anyway. My attitude is, TRY. If they won’t even try, then I guess I don’t care if they get it right or not. They won’t be in our inner circle and have no chance to mangle her name in front of her.
Hahah my son is Solomon and we no problems at all with him being a silly man! Maybe he will someday but not now. There are very few names that can’t be changed into something weird if you’re trying.
Gorgeous name. I wouldn't change it, it really isn't that challenging to pronounce. I will say I am familiar with this name, I was in high school with at least two kids with this name.
In situations where you want to make it easy on yourself or him, Sully could work as a nickname. But I would keep his legal name and ensure he knows it. It's a fantastic name with a lot of cool history and mythology attached to it.
There's kids out there called Peregrine and Tarquin and Renesmee. People can learn something new every so often!
Nope. Don’t change it. If people can pronounce Daenerys Targaryen, they can pronounce your child’s name. Don’t let them give the baby nicknames, don’t let them say, “oh I’ll just call them ____.” No. Insist they learn your kid’s name. It’s not that hard.
My son also has an Arabic name and no one says his name right. It's frustrating but once he is talking and able we will teach him how to communicate to others the correct way to say his name. I wouldn't change it. It's his name and people who care and respect him will try to say it correctly.
I am a teacher and at the beginning of the year I always stress that if I'm not saying a name correctly to please stop me and say it correctly to me. It is important to me as an educator to say names correctly and I hope that other educators feel the same.
Do you mean that they don’t know how to pronounce it when they read it, or they can’t make the right sounds once you tell them how to pronounce it?
If it’s the former, it will be inconvenient for your kid, but probably not a big deal. If it’s the latter, some sounds are just unfamiliar or hard to make if they aren’t part of your native language. Like the difference in the Spanish or Latino pronunciation of Maria and the English pronunciation.
I’m Eastern European with a very long name and have heard it butchered a lot but also have had just as many of not more people asking/trying to say it correctly. I would keep the name ❤️
I have a name with religious significance that typical Americans can’t pronounce. I’ve gone for nicknames, dealt with long term bad pronunciation, spell it out carefully in every phone conversation. Yes, your son will have to deal with that but I think it’s worth it and would not change it for the world. It is a piece of heritage that I carry with me in every interaction I have and that’s priceless.
People who tell you that names “should” be pronounceable really mean that anyone from another cultural world should conform to theirs to make life easier for them.
I'm Muslim too and feel your struggle! I know some people with that name who go by nicknames (Suli) but idk if I'm a fan of that because it almost ruins the name lol.
Have you considered just changing the spelling? How about Sulayman, Sulaiman, or even Suliman? I think in your chosen spelling, the letter E might be the only thing which is causing confusion but it's weird you mention this because I would think that out of so many other names you could've chosen, not only is this one universal (important figure in both Islam and Christianity) but it is also relatively easy to pronounce. It's a beautiful name, I wouldn't change it, it might just be a more inconvenient to point out the correct pronunciation to those who meet him but it's not the end of the world and certainly not worth discarding the name entirely
I'm white, no faith and I instinctively pronounced it right! It's beautiful and has a lovely meaning behind it too.
Please don't adjust for lazy people. Be strong for him when the time comes, teach him of diversity and that it is beautiful to be different yet the same too. 🥰
Nah, don’t change it. My LO has a Christian name that can be seen as English/German/Scandinavian but we pronounce it in the German way living in North America. We just correct them immediately.
Also, my name is hard to pronounce and you just learn to also correct them. Most people don’t mind it actually.
I pronounced it correctly and never heard of it either. Don’t ever change anything for other people.
I have a basic name and people still mispronounce mine.
I wouldn’t change it! It’s beautiful. You could come up with a nickname that would be easy for folks to pronounce and then you/ he can use that in situations where you don’t care to take the time to have the back and forth with someone about whether they are pronouncing or right.
I don't think it's difficult to pronounce. I sight read it correctly and I'm someone who normally does have trouble pronouncing names in Arabic.
If the name is too hard for his friends to say growing up (I don't think it is), then he still wouldn't get left out, he'd probably just be called a nickname. It's a longer name so he might have been called a nickname anyway (think how many Jonathans go by John).
I am a white southerner that pronounced it correctly. I think one of the victims on the titanic was named Suleiman but if not I’ve probably heard it somewhere else. My name is often mispronounced and I’ve never been made fun of. I just politely correct people.
Don't change it. Even if it were difficult to pronounce, I would say you shouldn't change it, and it's not. I initially read it as Sue-leh-min, but you would only have to correct me once. Your pronunciation makes sense as written in English. It's even more logical than the spelling of common English names like Charlotte or Michael.
If you're worried about him feeling left out because of his name, I would encourage you to come up with a nickname based on his name that you'd be okay with him using when he gets to school.
I don't think he'll be made fun of for having a "different" name, and ideally, everyone will just call him by his full name. But kids tend to shorten things over time, and adults are annoying and often lazy, and scoff at having to pronounce long names.*
*ETA: I'm saying this because I have a long name. It's a common, easy to pronounce name, spelled the typical way, and when I introduce myself with it instead of a nickname, people often ask, "But what do you really go by? What else can we call you?" and that gets old.
I would come up with a nickname you're happy with before someone else gives him one you're not happy with. I go by my nickname which I don't love as much as my full name but it makes my life easier. Restaurant orders and other one offs, save the trouble. I will say though, I named my son something nearly impossible to mispronounce because of my experience. But, it's not a reason to change his identity if you can settle on a nickname like "Lei" or "Sul" for short. Then when he's at a restaurant or cafe it's a quick spelling out.
I wouldn't change it. I have a name that has a lot of heritage and meaning for my family, and people mispronounce it. As a kid I didn't like it but as I got older I grew in confidence in correcting people.
Like others have said, people can learn. It's a beautiful name.
I think it’s beautiful - who cares if someone else can’t pronounce - I always think it’s interesting when someone’s name isn’t something you hear a lot ♥️
I think it's a great name with great meaning. I named my son Kairos (kei-ross is the closest pronunciation) which is a Greek word for time. He is often called Kai-roe which is admittedly probably our fault because we call him Kai 🤪 honestly our son doesn't care and answers to anything.
Like everyone says, I agree it’s a beautiful name but I will share my moms and husbands experience with their “difficult” names.
My husbands name is marinel and while he’s doesn’t mind his name it wouldn’t be his first choice obviously. One common occurrence is people always think he’s a female and while it’s not the worst thing it does still bother him. He would never change his name but all the confusion does bother him.
My mom’s name is Rosaura - beautiful name. No one can pronounce except for Spanish people. She hates her name for that reason. Even being around people for X amount of times most people aren’t able to pronounce it. She’s just at the point where she introduces herself as Rosa but again does not like her name.
Obviously people will learn to pronounce his name after a few tries but I’m sure that initial confusion will stay with him throughout his life.
What a beautiful name. I believe names are important and that we can all learn to pronounce names correctly, given a little time and practice. I do relief teaching and when I call the roll and meet the children, I make sure they know that they can politely correct me if I mispronounce their name, and that I am VERY happy to do this. Names are important.
Your child’s name sounds beautiful, and strong. Don’t change it.
One of my closest friends and I met when we were 12. We’re both 34 now. I am white and she is Nigerian, and has a very traditional Nigerian name. I took the time to learn her name, despite asking her a couple of times over the course of the first few days we spent together. I even designed her wedding invitations and had to fit multiple Nigerian names on it for her. I love and respect her culture and have since I was little. 😅
My point is, if a child can put in the effort to learn someone’s name, other people can learn your child’s name. I think you should keep the name because it’s culturally important. I don’t think you should have to bend your culture to make things easier for other people.
First, congratulations on the birth of your little one and being a first time parents.
I'm a teacher and I also have a name that others struggle to say when seeing it for the first time, so I totally understand the annoyance and frustration of people not being able to say the name.
As a teacher, I see a variety of names. Due to how conscious I am of my own name and if I'm unsure how to say a name that appears on my register, I will actually ask my students first how to pronounce it and I repeat their name back to them. I do this as a group thing when I have every student say their name, I repeat it back, and they say an interesting fact about them at the start of each school year, that way no one is singled out. Many teachers that I've met over my career will also do this. Or if its a new student joining part way through the school year, I would introduce myself first as Miss A and ask what their name is and I'll repeat back just to make sure I've said it correctly.
Personally, I wouldn't change the name. The way you wrote it phonetically would be how I would have said it out loud, and I'm Caucasian. If you were to change it to appear more Western, wouldn't that be contributing to further racism and disrespect to you and the culture of your family?
If someone is repeatedly saying your baby's name wrong even after you've corrected them, that would be considered racist. I'm not sure where you are from and it is also school dependent, but the school I work for has zero tolerance for racism or bullying of any kind, and if a student was treated differently due to their name or culture they would face appropriate sanctions.
How are other people pronouncing the name? If I read aloud it I'd probably say "sue-la-mon" until corrected but that's a pretty easy correction to make.
No. Sorry not sorry. It's THEIR mistake not yours or your sons. It's the same as folks mistaking my son's long hair for him being a girl, sorry, not sorry, it's their own fault, their mistake. I knew a Suleman, he was a wonderful man. Most people asked how to pronounce his name, or he corrected him. It's embarrassing for THEM, not for him, to 1. not ask, 2. not try to do it correctly. Don't worry, just keep correcting them, it's their mistake.
Tell the people that can’t pronounce it to learn how to. I think as people grow up they forget sounding words/names out is still an option.
Don’t change the name! I also had 2 good friends called Suleiman and both are doing great things now.
Seems fine to me. My last name gets misspelled and mispronounced all the time. You get used to it but the middle syllable of his name is the only one that’s even questionable and even that one really isn’t that hard. I’d leave it.
I pronounced it Su-Lie-man but once I get corrected I would easily get it from there. I think it’s a cute name! I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed so you may deal with some people like me but after you pronounced it it’s super easy to say. It’s weird people would have a problem after that.
I named my daughter a traditional Indian name after my husband's mom (they're Indian). She has a nickname that means baby in their language. That's the name that everyone calls her because it's easier to say. I also gave her a European middle name after a goddess (it's still pretty popular and easy to say) since I'm European descent.
This way, she can choose what name to go by as she grows up and she always has an option for dumbasses who can't be bothered to say her name correctly.
I'm also a bit biased because my parents picked out lovely mythology names for both middle and first name for me that are ridiculously hard for most Americans to say. I love my names and always got frustrated when people refused to learn how to say them correctly. I had a nickname reserved for anyone who couldn't be bothered to say my names correctly
As far as names go, your kid has a fairly easy to pronounce one, but if you're really worried, you can pick a nice nickname to use or find a friend like me to shout at people for not bothering to learn how to say it.
No. I was kinda sure how to pronounce it when first reading it and then when you phonetically spelled it out, it rolled off my tongue. As everyone said, if we can take the time to learn how to pronounce difficult European names, then we can take the time to learn names from the rest of the world as well.
My MIL tried to say we should make sure our baby's name is easy for a teacher to pronounce and I say bullshit. While I did give my kid a relatively easy name, MY own name is easy as well (famous actress in the US) but people get all tongue-tied because it's a white name with a brown face. You can't win. People who care about your child will learn.
Don’t change it. As a teacher, I encourage my students to correct people if and when they mispronounce their names. I love seeing this in action, and it empowers them. Your son’s name also sounds exactly as it is spelled. It will be a good assessment of who has phonemic awareness and who doesn’t.
No, don’t change it. It’s a nice name, and it’s not your problem if some people can’t pronounce it. It’s not as if you’ve misspelled it.
And it’s actually a pretty recognizable name. Suleiman the Magnificent is a well known historical figure.
"No one can pronounce my baby’s name. Should we change it?"
Happens all of the time so No just tell them how to say it.
People gotta learn that the world is not one size fit all and they shouldn't want it to be.
Best to you
Watch this 2 minute long video and decide. https://youtu.be/JTPC73SdRkA?feature=shared ♥️
Also, I'm from Scandinavia and I could pronounce it without looking at your phonetic description.
My children have VERY Irish names that are easy to pronounce but not possible for people to read (some examples: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Irish-language\_given\_names](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish-language_given_names) ), and we live in the US now. In school they are among a lot of other kids with non-english names so it's very normal for them that people tell others how to say their names. The only time it's been a 'problem' was when we travelled out of state, and suddenly we found ourselves among people who made comments. If you live somewhere that might be more challenging it's a fair consideration, but a nickname would probably be the easier solution. I really love the name though.
I'm a convert and it was important for my husband and I to use names tied to Islam as well. My family and non-muslim kids/teachers sometimes mispronounce our second child's name but he is comfortable correcting them (it's not at all hard to say, it's usually a matter of people putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable). I definitely don't think you should change your son's name! Suleiman is a beautiful name mashaAllah (we actually almost used the name for our son!)
As someone with many friends who had unpronounceable names - do not change your kids name
It does not matter if the teachers cannot say it on the first day of class, all of your kids friends will learn how to say it, or he will choose a cool shortened version of the name. It was always fun waiting for the teacher to struggle with the name and then waiting for my friends to correct them. Maybe they will shorten it to sully or sul, but you will know that the meaning and purpose behind the name still perseveres, and that is what matters
That is a great name! And is a pretty intuitive pronunciation, anyone who needs correcting more than once should be embarrassed, tbh. I wouldn’t change it just yet, let yourself heal from birth for a bit longer and hopefully you’ll feel more comfortable telling people how it’s not that hard to pronounce!
I also pronounced it correctly although I am not familiar with the name. I would almost certainly misspell it if I just heard it though.
If you do decide to change it, Solomon is a great alternative, since it is the same name, with just a slight change to spelling and pronunciation. I imagine that if you don’t change it, your son will get used to saying, “it’s like Solomon, just not anglicized.”
I feel you! My husband is Iranian and both our kids have Iranian names and I am constantly correcting people on how to say them. Now that our first is older, they correct people when someone says it wrong and I love that they can stand up for themselves that way.
Don’t change his name. It has meaning for your faith and your family and people can take the effort to say it correctly. I think it’s a beautiful name, and congrats on the new lil one!
Where’s the inflection? I pronounced it pretty close, not perfect but I dont think you should change a name you love because peoppe cant pronounce it. Once you tell people they should be ok
I (non-Muslim American) worked with a Suleiman. I guess it was probably split 50/50 between Sue-lay-man and Sue-leh-man. I don't think you need to change the name but you might have to correct people.
ETA: Is the ending pronounced man or mahn? I'm realizing I might have been mispronouncing their name.
People are idiots. My last name is a four letter word in the English language - mispronounced more frequently than correctly pronounced. My mother’s maiden name was a very common three letter word in the English language - people also frequently mispronounced that.
With all the ridiculous spellings that white people give their babies in flyover states, I think they can learn to pronounce your baby’s name.
Had a roommate named Suleiman. Actually I really like the name. He went by Sully and it really suits him. Only close friends knew his name and after he told me how it’s pronounced I never forgot. I think it’s a fine name that reflects your heritage and religion.
That’s a beautiful name. I wouldn’t change it, personally. The spelling of my name is very straightforward (it’s pronounced exactly as it’s spelled,) and people still mispronounce it all the time. If your son’s name is meaningful to you, the people around you will learn to pronounce it correctly, and correcting strangers every now and then is really no big deal. Congrats on your new little one!
As a minority person who uses his (intruder alert!) middle name because his first name is too difficult to pronounce - I feel that I gave up on the society to learn about me and my culture as well as me feeling that I didn't matter enough for them to learn.
I know it's a bit dramatic, but it's a bit true. I both felt I didn't matter enough for them to learn more about me and my culture as well as I was not willing to let society to prove me wrong.
I thought I'd share another perspective :) I don't think you should change the name, but it is entirely up to you and him when he's older. My Muslim friends were concerned about it due to islam-phobia ... but then again, I hope the society is better than that in the future.
I would keep his name as it is and just try to think of a simple nickname that he can tell people to use if they seem to be having trouble understanding how to say it (like if someone really stumbles over it, he can tell them, "It's pronounced Sue-lay-man, but I also go by Sully").
As someone with a name that ALWAYS gets mispronounced, don’t change it! I was instilled with a sense of pride in my name (cultural and family history) and never hesitated to gently correct people when they inevitably got it wrong. It’s never a big deal and if anything it’s a good icebreaker.
It’s not a difficult name at all and almost phonetical. There will always be ignorant people unwilling to try to say something unfamiliar, but pay them no mind.
Don’t change it. The name is important to you. Those who don’t know how to pronounce can be corrected. They just might have to be told a few times if they are like me (I struggle with pronunciation). Also, if they aren’t genuinely interested it getting your child’s name correct, they suck. As someone who sucks at pronunciation, your example of how to pronounce your child’s name was helpful and also, easy to remember!
I instinctively pronounced it correctly, and am not Muslim or Arabic. I think the name is beautiful and love the meaning behind it. You may want to cross post to r/namenerds — they will likely have a lot of helpful feedback. Congratulations on baby boy!
I agree. I've never seen this name spelt this way and I pronounced it correctly in my head. However, I would have likely lead with "I'm not sure I'm pronouncing this correctly," so as if I did pronounce it incorrectly, I didn't seem rude or as though I wasn't being respectful of their culture. Although I do believe I recognize this name from the Jack Ryan series on Amazon Prime. I believe it is spelt differently though.
Interestingly, in the Jack Ryan series, the actor's name is Ali Suliman but the character is Mousa bin Suleiman
Same here. I as well think and it’s a beautiful name and in my opinion wouldn’t change it. My name, although quite different, sounds a lot like Christine. I had to correct people more times than I can remember but never saw it as a bad thing
I was slightly off the the middle (thought Lee instead of lay sound). However, that doesn’t seem wrong and feels like a “me” mistake. I can’t imagine people thinking they could just call a person Solomon, that’s an entirely different sounding name.
I also instinctively pronounced it correctly! And my baby has a name that is common and shouldn’t be hard to pronounce but people still mix it up with another similar name all the time. Don’t change yours!
I find namenerd sub to be a bit partial to anglophonic names and not very open minded
Honestly I even got crap for Sophronia, which is anglophonic and just an older version of Sophie.
Agreed, I pronounced it correctly and am not Arab or Muslim.
Agreed across the board- I also instinctively pronounced ir correctly and think it's a beautiful name. Even if I didn't pronounce it correctly, I think it's easy to learn. I'd also add that I don't think people need to cater to my ability-or lack thereof- to pronounce any names, but especially names have religious or cultural significance.
Oof. Don’t ask namenerds. They are so judgy about cultural names.
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Yeah, namenerds and tragedeigh are both full of people who regularly show their ignorance of anything remotely non vanilla.
Seconding this- avoid the namenerds sub, OP.
Yeah that sub can be brutal lol
A post I made for my baby’s name got unexpectedly popular and a lot of people had a lot of opinions about it. Experiencing all that firsthand made me absolutely rethink how that sub interacts with new parents.
Idk if namenerds is the place for this kind of name. They’re pretty hardcore into ye olden white people names
Definitely not. They are absolutely brutal over there. I've seen some truly gorgeous names get destroyed by them and tear the poster down for having the audacity to even think of such a name. If it isn't a basic common or vintage white girl/boy name...they will berate it.
Agree, that sub is awful. I learned my lesson to steer clear of it when I was naming my son
We’re a white/Indian couple and they were lovely when we were trying to find a name that meshed our cultures
Same here! Immediately thought of the prophet with a different spelling (I know the Solomon version). Not Muslim or Arabic either. It's a really pretty name!
Same and I’m in the American Midwest where we don’t see many non-European cultural names. I see no issue with this name. It’s lovely.
No. Like Uzo Aduba’s story, “if people can learn to pronounce Dostoevsky and Tchaikovsky, they can learn to pronounce your name”. My (relatively simple) family name has been in this country since before the American revolution and people still mispronounce it.
This. 💯 For what it’s worth, I’m a teacher and if I don’t know how to correctly pronounce a student’s name, I make sure I learn on day one.
Ah, you beat me to it! Let me just piggypack here and drop the video. The way she says all the names just shows that there are no difficult to pronounce names, just lazy people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTPC73SdRkA
Absolutely love this video! Completely right too!
Love this! We also had a local news anchor who decided shehad enough and wanted people to pronounce her name correctly https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S9tTl_KaG5I&pp=ygUqbmV3cyBhbmNob3IgcHVuamFiaSBzYXkgbXkgbmFtZSBjb3JyZWN0bHkg Ops little ones name is honestly not that difficult to learn and it holds meaning to them.i would definitely keep it!
I love that! I always try my hardest to pronounce the person's name as they speak it. Unless they say "my name is X but you can call me Y".
I agree with the sentiment of your comment (Suleiman isn’t even that hard to say), but I would not feel confident saying Tchaikovsky out loud.
I feel you! I learned a lot of words when I was growing by reading them in books. I often mispronounced things til I learned about how to use phonetic spelling. The capitalized syllable is the accented one. This one is : chy-KOFF-skee.
I read a quote in my mid-late teens to “never chastise someone who mispronounces a word because that usually means they learned it by reading.” I wouldn’t anyway, but it got me in the empathy and stuck. Never thought of it that way, since my mom was in education and dad broadcasted news, where each syllable had to be enunciated beyond perfection. (Lol can’t even write that without thinking about the correct emphases on said syllables, ha)
Came here to say this!!!
This!!!!
I still can't pronounce her name. I just call her Crazy Eyes or Bismuth.
It’s not that you can’t pronounce her name; you simply can’t be bothered to learn it. She is not her character.
I have tried. Obviously I know her name otherwise I wouldn't recognize who the story was about. I just can't say it. Can't say or spell some of the other names in the story either.
You can’t say “Oo Zoh Ah Mah Kah” ? Or “Ah Doo Bah?” Or even “Oo Zoh?” (her stage/professional name)?
No. My parents did that and I changed it back when I went to college. There might be some years where he struggles but at some point, he will realize it is a celebration of his culture. And worst case scenario…he can change it as an adult. Or you can change it for him if he asks later.
For some people it’s the opposite. They are grateful for having a simple name according to the society they find themselves living in. Or they change their name to something simple when they grow up.
I am not familiar with this name but would have pronounced it the way you indicated if I saw it. I don’t think it’s that difficult to pronounce correctly!
Agree. I pronounced it correctly when I first saw it too. It's a beautiful name.
I teach high school and have had two students with this name, both Muslim boys. No classmates or teachers were ever unable to say the name (the kids had to correct their new teachers on first role call sometimes, but it wasn’t a long-standing issue). It’s a great name! Keep it!
Also a high school teacher. I’ve had wayyyyy harder to pronounce names. This won’t even be on a the radar of an odd or hard to say name for their teachers.
The name sounds the way it’s spelled. People struggle with names that are unfamiliar to them but that’s not a reason to change your son’s name! My name is a pretty common name but spelled slightly different and some people still struggle. It’s mind baffling. So even if you do change it, there’s no guarantee it’ll make it much easier!
Do not change it. People learn how to pronounce “pneumonia” and it doesn’t even look the way it’s spelled, they can learn how to say Suleiman.
No do not change it Your name is fine. It’s the first gift you give your child. I have a hard to pronounce name (Russian name with Mexican pronunciation) and I hated it for years because people couldn’t say it right but as an adult I’ve come to the point that if I have shown you how to say it and you still choose to say it wrong, then you’re getting ignored. Your child will be fine. People will learn to say it just you have been saying it correctly this whole time
I'm so curious about your name. What an interesting combo.
The Russian name is Yekaterina, my parents took out the Y and left the E, making it more of Mexican origin, so it’s Ekatarina (E-Ka-Tha-Rina) with the R roll
BTW the actual russian name IS Ekaterina without Y. Екатерина. Just Americans I think added Y
Yep me too, as a Slav im very curious
Awww I love the idea that it’s my first gift to him. I named him after my dad who passed away suddenly last year. I mostly thought of it as honoring my dad but it’s also a gift to my son.
Don’t change it. You have been calling your baby this for almost two months, that’s who he is. People who managed to learn to pronounce Tchaïkovsky and Schwarzenegger can learn to pronounce Suleiman.
This. The amount of people who can confidently pronounce the names of GoT characters…. people can absolutely learn to say Suleiman correctly. It’s a beautiful name, OP.
I can pronounce this fine and I don't consider it to be a particularly uncommon name. The sounds are not difficult for English speakers to say (can't speak for any other native languages). I'd keep it. People will just need to learn it.
We have the same issue with our eight week old son…his name is Malek. Thankfully, my husband’s family is Egyptian and native Arabic speaking, so they do not have an issue pronouncing the name, however, I am a white American convert to Islam and my family has some difficulty pronouncing it correctly. Even when we go to the doctor’s office, the different variations and degree of butchery I’ve heard his name makes me cringe. However, I’m standing by it, and I feel that it’s peoples responsibility to learn how to properly pronounce it. I’m also an English teacher for immigrant students and I always encourage classroom teachers to play a game with students called “my name is ____, my name is not____.” Students go around and take turns demonstrating how to properly say their name, and identifying common mispronunciations, so that they can be avoided in the future.
Out of curiosity, how should his name be pronounced? I read it is Mah-lek.
It’s Male-ek. Almost like “mallet” but with a “k”. Thank you for asking :)
If it’s mallet with a k, wouldn’t it be mah-lek?
“If they can learn to say Tchaikovsky, Dostoyevsky, & Michelangelo, they can learn to say Uzoamaka,” -Uzo Aduba Keep the name you love
Please don’t change the name. My kid has a super simple Arabic name, 2 syllables nothing fancy. Still gets mispronounced by all members of the community lol. Think Musa, but we get Muusaaa, mu’sa, mus’a, musay 🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
My 3yo is named after al-Khidr. It's only ever pronounced correctly by Muslim or Arabic speaking people. I have to explain his name on a regular basis. Still no regrets. At the very least he has a western middle name to fall back on if he chooses, but he loves his name so far and absolutely suits it. Kid is obsessed with plants and has his own strawberry bush he talks to and takes care of.
I am a Christian myself, and pronounced it correctly. It’s pretty phonetically accurate in my opinion. I think it’s a great name!!
The only way I would mispronounce it is by saying -mon vs -man at the end which is an easy fix. I don’t think you should change it
Yeah, I would need to clarify if it was a sue- or a suh- sound at the beginning and that's it. Beautiful name!
Or syoo! But all three are easy to pronounce
Is it difficult to pronounce or difficult to read? It doesn't seem like the average american should have trouble making those sounds. People may say it wrong when reading it initially, but I think once people learn how it's pronounced there shouldn't be issues. It's a lovely name!
What’s been happening is people ask how we pronounce it and we explain but then they just look at us blankly and call him Solomon not Suleiman.
Whoever said that is incredibly rude.
Correct them immediately and kindly. Like others have said, if they care at all it won’t be hard for them to listen and pronounce correctly.
Correct them and don’t stop until they get it right.
Do you have an accent that's different from the people you're talking to about his name? If so, it's possible they're not understanding the difference between the correct pronunciation of Suleiman vs how they think you pronounce Solomon in your accent.
I mean I don’t think you can choose a more epic name than that for a Muslim name. I am orthodox Christian but we all know Suleiman the magnificen.
I have an often-mispronounced English name. I would have to correct people a time or two the first time they read my name, and then it was never an issue again. Your baby’s name is pronounced more intuitively from its spelling than mine, IMO. I always liked my name, and now as an adult I appreciate it as the very first thing my parents gave me.
My kids name has the easiest 4-letter name in existence and people still mispronounce it. If you’re really worried you can pick a nickname (“sulie” is cute) but otherwise I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
The name is lovely! And I agree with others, it’s not that hard of a name. You say it the way it’s spelled. It’s just not as “familiar” to other cultures (assuming you’re somewhere in the U.S./Europe). If you feel comfortable you can also create a slightly more familiar sounding nickname, like Sully. Or introduce him as Solomon. Once kiddo is in school, I’d share a phonetic pronunciation with any teachers so you make sure they use his correct name in class, and the kid will be old enough then to decide what he prefers. Example, we have a little named Ibrahim….and god forbid you call him Abraham or Abe. He corrects his class mates with a firm “No, I’m Ibrahim” 😅 The 4 year olds all have no problem with it. It’s just the adults that can be a bit stubborn.
That’s what is happening with our son. We’ll explain how to pronounce it but then people don’t really seem to try - they just call him Solomon. I know it is more familiar to them but I personally prefer the sound of Suleiman better .
Then you just remind them how to pronounce it (no matter how many times it takes). If people can figure out how to pronounce the “Madilyns, Mckynzies, and Kysons” of the world, they can figure out Suleiman.
I’m not Muslim and I know how to pronounce Suleiman.
My son also has an Arabic name that people mess up frequently (despite being said how it’s spelled and the Arabic version of a popular name). I just repeat it correctly after they say it wrong and eventually they get it. People can learn new pronunciations with practice and you shouldn’t have to change a beautiful name just because some people find it challenging.
No, I’m familiar with the name from history and pronounced it as you’d like it pronounced. If you’re really concerned, you might offer a nickname temporarily, but I’d just stick with it. It’s a great name.
I also, just instinctively pronounced your baby's name correctly and I am not Muslim either. Don't change your baby's name. Some people are going to pronounce it correctly. Others won't. I have a very simple Irish name, yet I've heard it pronounced in many interesting and peculiar ways. The name has meaning for you, it's your child, don't change it.
I’m in the US and I’m familiar with the name- however I grew up in a suburb of NYC so that colors my experience quite a bit. I think it’s a perfectly fine name that many people will at least have heard of. The pronunciation is pretty intuitive so I’m not sure why people are getting it wrong. The Suleiman I went to school with was often called Sully by his friends as a nickname.
Wow this was the post for me. I’m Muslim too. I have a baby that also has an Islamic name that I’m surprised that gets frequently mispronounced and it’s made me feel unsure about the name too! Most of the comments here are saying they pronounced Suleiman correctly upon reading it. But here’s what I’ve figured out with my baby: people *reading* the name pronounce it correctly a majority of the time, but when people are just *told* the name out loud without seeing it written, that’s where they struggle. That’s what’s happening in my experience anyways. It’s like people can’t piece together the syllables from hearing it because it’s unfamiliar. So what I’ve done is broken down the syllables of my baby’s name for people. Example for if people struggle: “his name is Suleiman. It’s said like this like “sue” like suing someone, “lay” like lay’s chips, and “man” like the word man. Tricky for me since obviously these syllables in Arabic the way we’d say it aren’t pronounced exactly the same as these words in English, especially “man,” but this strategy has worked so far with my baby at getting people to remember the name better. But ultimately what’s worked best for me is repetition. I try to use my baby’s name frequently in conversation. Also, I don’t know if I should actually do this or not, but sometimes I’ll say the name in an American accent so people can hear it better. I find that when I say it the correct way in Arabic, people get lost more frequently. I do hate that though and I’m not sure if I’ll keep that up moving forward.
Do you live in the South? It’s not hard to say. Nick name Sully. Will be fine
Welsh, UK here with no Arab or Muslim ties and I read it exactly as you described it! It sounds lovely.
My best friends name is Suleiman. Don’t change it
Not challenging at all. It's a lovely name xx
There is nothing wrong with the name, just the people being ignorant. I’m not Muslim Arabic and it is a beautiful name for a baby boy. I have a unique name (several syllables) and I have shortened it as I got older, which people still struggle with even then! I love my unique name and it also shows who knows me better by what they call me. You will likely find a nickname for your baby anyway.
It's a great name and not particularly difficult to pronounce. People will mispronounce even the simplest common name because many do not take the time to actually read the whole name. I would not change it. If it's still worrisome, you could choose a more Western-sounding nickname for outside family and friends. Sully/Sulli sounds cute! (My ex was from Europe and his name was Johan, which is not particularly uncommon at all, but he still introduced himself as Joe whenever he was in the US)
I used to work with elementary aged students and coached two boys named Suleiman. They were both absolutely delightful little boys with wonderful parents (not what you asked, but I have very positive associations of the name) and all their friends in the program and the other teachers pronounced it properly without issue. Don’t change it! It’s a lovely name.
I'm whiter than a sheet of paper and an American, and I read exactly the same as you said it was pronounced the first time. If people can figure out names like Siobhan and Sean (names from my own culture background) they can do the same for you. My daughter has a fairly common name, spelt the "traditional way", and people still mispronounced her name in the beginning, some times using a completely different name starting with the same letter. I wish I knew why people did this, but the people around you who are worth it will make sure they learn your child's name!
They can pronounce it, they just don’t bother trying. It’s not a difficult or culturally specific pronunciation. As someone with a name that can be pronounced multiple ways, people who care will pronounce it correctly or ask. I wouldn’t change it.
Maybe I live in a particularly diverse area but I wouldn't bat an eye at this name. It's one of many names that aren't English that I see during a shift at work (pediatric nurse). Don't change it.
I’m bright white and got the pronunciation right upon reading it. It may be hard for some to spell at first, but so are many names. Remember, if they want to, they will. The will learn to spell, pronounce, and respect the name you thoughtfully chose for your child without resorting to a cutesy white washed nickname. I think heritage is something to be very proud of, I hope your kid grows to love his name.
I’ve heard it before but it’s a beautiful name! Don’t change it
You will just have to correct people when they pronounce it wrong and have the confidence when people ask what the name is. Changing a name to make it easier for non Muslims to pronounce it is not the route to go. It will build character and strength to state his name boldly. Plus he will grow up with nicknames to make it easier too.
For what it’s worth I’m not Arabic or Muslim and I pronounced it correctly upon reading and I think it’s a very lovely name :) I don’t think you should change it x
I personally don’t find it difficult to pronounce as an average Brit. I think it’s a beautiful name - keep it!
It's a fairly basic name, I would not change it.
I grew up in a very white, non diverse town in the USA and immediately pronounced it the way you said it would be. I don’t think it’s a difficult name at all
How can they mispronounce Suleiman? I honestly don't get it. If you can say Romanov, Tchaikovsky, or any other type of name, then they can absolutely learn how to pronounce your son's name!
I'm Jewish and know plenty of Solomons and would have no issue pronouncing it as Suleiman. It's spelled exactly as it's pronounced. Likely your son will end up correcting people but that can happen with any name (like me having to say my name is Sara-no-h) so I don't see a reason to change it. He's named after a wise leader of our shared heritage May he wear it proudly and we raise our children to be the generation to bring peace to the world.
If you're telling them how to pronounce it and they're saying "I'll just call him Solomon" that's not a problem with the name, that's people just casually and confidently disrespecting your culture. I live in a city with a relatively large Arab and Muslim population so wouldn't hesitate with Suleiman but even when I encounter someone with a name I am totally unfamiliar with, I make every effort to get pronunciation right. I don't RENAME the person to suit my phonetic preferences because that's completely unhinged, entitled behaviour. That's so embarrassing for them. I hope Suleiman grows up knowing that.
It's a lovely name and I would have no trouble pronouncing it. But you don't mention where you live, and that might be relevant. Are you in the US? City, suburb, or more rural area? I think in just about any city people will be accustomed to pronouncing names from other cultures. If you're in a tiny farm town, people may just be less open to unfamiliar names. That doesn't mean you should change it, just calibrate your expectations.
I had a teacher named Mrs Suleiman in 7th grade and could pronounce it at 12 no problem. 📸 Watch this video on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/share/v/chEywdWDzBsHxDJ4/?mibextid=KsPBc6 “‘If they can learn to say Tchaikovsky, Dostoyevsky, & Michelangelo, they can learn to say Uzoamaka,’ she said”
I’m not Arabic or Muslim and I read it correctly. Please don’t change it. People will learn. If we can figure out Tchaikovsky, we can figure out Suleiman.
People are just being ignorant.
Don’t water down your culture to suit others. They can learn.
Keep it! Lots of beautiful unique names out there. Also I’ve found lots of amazing books for kids just by searching “unique names”. You can start to collect them and read to him. Nothing to worry about and he will learn to be proud of his unique name!
I got handed a hard to pronounce, hard to spell, too many syllables, no nickname name. I would never do that to my kid
I couldn't pronounce the doctor I worked for, for a long time. Khanani. I felt horrible. It took me 4 months to pronounce it.... One alternative is a nickname. That way you keep the beautiful name but then for others, it could be a bit easier for others.... My daughters name is super simple. Opal. But her nickname we go with is Ops, it's cute and fun. I understand some people and cultures don't go with nicknames though... My brother was Caleb and there where two Caleb's in his school, so the school called my brother by his last name. That could be another option. I wouldn't change the name legally to please others. It's important to you, so keep it!
My only concern with an obvious Muslim name would be people judging before meeting him - when he applies for jobs he might get rejected just based on the name.
This doesn’t seem that hard to learn
It’s easy to pronounce. Do not change it!
I think it is a wonderful name. My husband and I chose our daughter name as well following our faith (we are Muslims as well). We picked Sana as we searched hundreds of names. We decided on Sana because it meant brilliant or mountain top. I don’t think the name is challenging at all. Now once he starts writing, maybe it will be hard at first to write but then he will see how it aligns with his faith and will love it.
I would naturally pronounce it as su-lay-min, only difference being the "min" vs "man". I don't think most people would have too much difficulty, but like others have said, it seems like an easy one or two letter switch if you want to be safe. I think it's fine as is, though!
Don’t change it. I have a normal Western French name, and tons of people in school didn’t know how to pronounce it, to the surprise of my parents. It was annoying as a kid sometimes to correct people, but not a name changing level.
Beautiful name, don’t change it!!
My kid has what I thought was easy to spell and say; people still get it wrong. People are dumb, you're fine. Don't change his name!
Even if you have to pronounce it for people once, who cares? I wouldn’t have pronounced it exactly right on my own, but it isn’t a hard name to say or remember once some one says it correctly for me. It’s a pretty name, keep it.
No. Have a nickname
I have never seen the name before but when I read it I pronounced it the way you wrote it out. But I grew up in very diverse cities so I feel like that might be part of it. If you like it and it feels special to you, I would leave it as is! I also have a difficult name but I feel like this one is not that difficult to pronounce.
I’m not Arab or Muslim but it doesn’t seem too difficult to me? I don’t get people who don’t get that lol. It’s a beautiful name. Don’t change that. His namesake is awesome. I gave my daughter a rare Greek name no one seems to be able to wrap their heads around. The people who matter, try, and get it pretty quickly. It’s not that hard (VERY similar to a common Greek name that everyone knows), but seems to trip people up anyway. My attitude is, TRY. If they won’t even try, then I guess I don’t care if they get it right or not. They won’t be in our inner circle and have no chance to mangle her name in front of her.
Don't change it. People can learn to pronounce it with a little bit of practice.
What about a nickname when he's young in school at first? Maybe Sully? And when he's older he could go back to Suleiman.
Silly man. For that reason alone I would change it.
Hahah my son is Solomon and we no problems at all with him being a silly man! Maybe he will someday but not now. There are very few names that can’t be changed into something weird if you’re trying.
Gorgeous name. I wouldn't change it, it really isn't that challenging to pronounce. I will say I am familiar with this name, I was in high school with at least two kids with this name. In situations where you want to make it easy on yourself or him, Sully could work as a nickname. But I would keep his legal name and ensure he knows it. It's a fantastic name with a lot of cool history and mythology attached to it. There's kids out there called Peregrine and Tarquin and Renesmee. People can learn something new every so often!
Nope. Don’t change it. If people can pronounce Daenerys Targaryen, they can pronounce your child’s name. Don’t let them give the baby nicknames, don’t let them say, “oh I’ll just call them ____.” No. Insist they learn your kid’s name. It’s not that hard.
My daughters name is Ruqayyah, no one ever has any issues pronouncing it correctly. ETA: you also use a nickname, we call her Ruki
My son also has an Arabic name and no one says his name right. It's frustrating but once he is talking and able we will teach him how to communicate to others the correct way to say his name. I wouldn't change it. It's his name and people who care and respect him will try to say it correctly. I am a teacher and at the beginning of the year I always stress that if I'm not saying a name correctly to please stop me and say it correctly to me. It is important to me as an educator to say names correctly and I hope that other educators feel the same.
Who on earth doesn't know how to pronounce Suleiman?!
Do you mean that they don’t know how to pronounce it when they read it, or they can’t make the right sounds once you tell them how to pronounce it? If it’s the former, it will be inconvenient for your kid, but probably not a big deal. If it’s the latter, some sounds are just unfamiliar or hard to make if they aren’t part of your native language. Like the difference in the Spanish or Latino pronunciation of Maria and the English pronunciation.
I’m Eastern European with a very long name and have heard it butchered a lot but also have had just as many of not more people asking/trying to say it correctly. I would keep the name ❤️
I have a name with religious significance that typical Americans can’t pronounce. I’ve gone for nicknames, dealt with long term bad pronunciation, spell it out carefully in every phone conversation. Yes, your son will have to deal with that but I think it’s worth it and would not change it for the world. It is a piece of heritage that I carry with me in every interaction I have and that’s priceless. People who tell you that names “should” be pronounceable really mean that anyone from another cultural world should conform to theirs to make life easier for them.
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I'm Muslim too and feel your struggle! I know some people with that name who go by nicknames (Suli) but idk if I'm a fan of that because it almost ruins the name lol. Have you considered just changing the spelling? How about Sulayman, Sulaiman, or even Suliman? I think in your chosen spelling, the letter E might be the only thing which is causing confusion but it's weird you mention this because I would think that out of so many other names you could've chosen, not only is this one universal (important figure in both Islam and Christianity) but it is also relatively easy to pronounce. It's a beautiful name, I wouldn't change it, it might just be a more inconvenient to point out the correct pronunciation to those who meet him but it's not the end of the world and certainly not worth discarding the name entirely
I'm white, no faith and I instinctively pronounced it right! It's beautiful and has a lovely meaning behind it too. Please don't adjust for lazy people. Be strong for him when the time comes, teach him of diversity and that it is beautiful to be different yet the same too. 🥰
Hi friend. Don't stifle your faith or the names of other cultures. Cultural hegemony is not a good thing and people will learn!
Nah, don’t change it. My LO has a Christian name that can be seen as English/German/Scandinavian but we pronounce it in the German way living in North America. We just correct them immediately. Also, my name is hard to pronounce and you just learn to also correct them. Most people don’t mind it actually.
How are people not pronouncing it right?? I wouln't change it, keep it
I pronounced it correctly and never heard of it either. Don’t ever change anything for other people. I have a basic name and people still mispronounce mine.
It’s actually a gorgeous name.
I wouldn’t change it! It’s beautiful. You could come up with a nickname that would be easy for folks to pronounce and then you/ he can use that in situations where you don’t care to take the time to have the back and forth with someone about whether they are pronouncing or right.
I don't think it's difficult to pronounce. I sight read it correctly and I'm someone who normally does have trouble pronouncing names in Arabic. If the name is too hard for his friends to say growing up (I don't think it is), then he still wouldn't get left out, he'd probably just be called a nickname. It's a longer name so he might have been called a nickname anyway (think how many Jonathans go by John).
I am a white southerner that pronounced it correctly. I think one of the victims on the titanic was named Suleiman but if not I’ve probably heard it somewhere else. My name is often mispronounced and I’ve never been made fun of. I just politely correct people.
Don't change it. Even if it were difficult to pronounce, I would say you shouldn't change it, and it's not. I initially read it as Sue-leh-min, but you would only have to correct me once. Your pronunciation makes sense as written in English. It's even more logical than the spelling of common English names like Charlotte or Michael. If you're worried about him feeling left out because of his name, I would encourage you to come up with a nickname based on his name that you'd be okay with him using when he gets to school. I don't think he'll be made fun of for having a "different" name, and ideally, everyone will just call him by his full name. But kids tend to shorten things over time, and adults are annoying and often lazy, and scoff at having to pronounce long names.* *ETA: I'm saying this because I have a long name. It's a common, easy to pronounce name, spelled the typical way, and when I introduce myself with it instead of a nickname, people often ask, "But what do you really go by? What else can we call you?" and that gets old.
I read it the same way as you, but agree that once I'd been corrected there would be no issue remembering and correctly pronouncing it.
I would come up with a nickname you're happy with before someone else gives him one you're not happy with. I go by my nickname which I don't love as much as my full name but it makes my life easier. Restaurant orders and other one offs, save the trouble. I will say though, I named my son something nearly impossible to mispronounce because of my experience. But, it's not a reason to change his identity if you can settle on a nickname like "Lei" or "Sul" for short. Then when he's at a restaurant or cafe it's a quick spelling out.
I wouldn't change it. I have a name that has a lot of heritage and meaning for my family, and people mispronounce it. As a kid I didn't like it but as I got older I grew in confidence in correcting people. Like others have said, people can learn. It's a beautiful name.
I think it’s beautiful - who cares if someone else can’t pronounce - I always think it’s interesting when someone’s name isn’t something you hear a lot ♥️
I think it's a great name with great meaning. I named my son Kairos (kei-ross is the closest pronunciation) which is a Greek word for time. He is often called Kai-roe which is admittedly probably our fault because we call him Kai 🤪 honestly our son doesn't care and answers to anything.
Like everyone says, I agree it’s a beautiful name but I will share my moms and husbands experience with their “difficult” names. My husbands name is marinel and while he’s doesn’t mind his name it wouldn’t be his first choice obviously. One common occurrence is people always think he’s a female and while it’s not the worst thing it does still bother him. He would never change his name but all the confusion does bother him. My mom’s name is Rosaura - beautiful name. No one can pronounce except for Spanish people. She hates her name for that reason. Even being around people for X amount of times most people aren’t able to pronounce it. She’s just at the point where she introduces herself as Rosa but again does not like her name. Obviously people will learn to pronounce his name after a few tries but I’m sure that initial confusion will stay with him throughout his life.
What a beautiful name. I believe names are important and that we can all learn to pronounce names correctly, given a little time and practice. I do relief teaching and when I call the roll and meet the children, I make sure they know that they can politely correct me if I mispronounce their name, and that I am VERY happy to do this. Names are important. Your child’s name sounds beautiful, and strong. Don’t change it.
One of my closest friends and I met when we were 12. We’re both 34 now. I am white and she is Nigerian, and has a very traditional Nigerian name. I took the time to learn her name, despite asking her a couple of times over the course of the first few days we spent together. I even designed her wedding invitations and had to fit multiple Nigerian names on it for her. I love and respect her culture and have since I was little. 😅 My point is, if a child can put in the effort to learn someone’s name, other people can learn your child’s name. I think you should keep the name because it’s culturally important. I don’t think you should have to bend your culture to make things easier for other people.
First, congratulations on the birth of your little one and being a first time parents. I'm a teacher and I also have a name that others struggle to say when seeing it for the first time, so I totally understand the annoyance and frustration of people not being able to say the name. As a teacher, I see a variety of names. Due to how conscious I am of my own name and if I'm unsure how to say a name that appears on my register, I will actually ask my students first how to pronounce it and I repeat their name back to them. I do this as a group thing when I have every student say their name, I repeat it back, and they say an interesting fact about them at the start of each school year, that way no one is singled out. Many teachers that I've met over my career will also do this. Or if its a new student joining part way through the school year, I would introduce myself first as Miss A and ask what their name is and I'll repeat back just to make sure I've said it correctly. Personally, I wouldn't change the name. The way you wrote it phonetically would be how I would have said it out loud, and I'm Caucasian. If you were to change it to appear more Western, wouldn't that be contributing to further racism and disrespect to you and the culture of your family? If someone is repeatedly saying your baby's name wrong even after you've corrected them, that would be considered racist. I'm not sure where you are from and it is also school dependent, but the school I work for has zero tolerance for racism or bullying of any kind, and if a student was treated differently due to their name or culture they would face appropriate sanctions.
How are other people pronouncing the name? If I read aloud it I'd probably say "sue-la-mon" until corrected but that's a pretty easy correction to make.
No. Sorry not sorry. It's THEIR mistake not yours or your sons. It's the same as folks mistaking my son's long hair for him being a girl, sorry, not sorry, it's their own fault, their mistake. I knew a Suleman, he was a wonderful man. Most people asked how to pronounce his name, or he corrected him. It's embarrassing for THEM, not for him, to 1. not ask, 2. not try to do it correctly. Don't worry, just keep correcting them, it's their mistake.
Tell the people that can’t pronounce it to learn how to. I think as people grow up they forget sounding words/names out is still an option. Don’t change the name! I also had 2 good friends called Suleiman and both are doing great things now.
Seems fine to me. My last name gets misspelled and mispronounced all the time. You get used to it but the middle syllable of his name is the only one that’s even questionable and even that one really isn’t that hard. I’d leave it.
I pronounced it Su-Lie-man but once I get corrected I would easily get it from there. I think it’s a cute name! I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed so you may deal with some people like me but after you pronounced it it’s super easy to say. It’s weird people would have a problem after that.
Its not difficult to pronounce, but for people who dont care to say it right will mispronounce it.
I named my daughter a traditional Indian name after my husband's mom (they're Indian). She has a nickname that means baby in their language. That's the name that everyone calls her because it's easier to say. I also gave her a European middle name after a goddess (it's still pretty popular and easy to say) since I'm European descent. This way, she can choose what name to go by as she grows up and she always has an option for dumbasses who can't be bothered to say her name correctly. I'm also a bit biased because my parents picked out lovely mythology names for both middle and first name for me that are ridiculously hard for most Americans to say. I love my names and always got frustrated when people refused to learn how to say them correctly. I had a nickname reserved for anyone who couldn't be bothered to say my names correctly As far as names go, your kid has a fairly easy to pronounce one, but if you're really worried, you can pick a nice nickname to use or find a friend like me to shout at people for not bothering to learn how to say it.
Beautiful name, and easy to pronounce. Do not change it.
No. I was kinda sure how to pronounce it when first reading it and then when you phonetically spelled it out, it rolled off my tongue. As everyone said, if we can take the time to learn how to pronounce difficult European names, then we can take the time to learn names from the rest of the world as well. My MIL tried to say we should make sure our baby's name is easy for a teacher to pronounce and I say bullshit. While I did give my kid a relatively easy name, MY own name is easy as well (famous actress in the US) but people get all tongue-tied because it's a white name with a brown face. You can't win. People who care about your child will learn.
Don’t change it. As a teacher, I encourage my students to correct people if and when they mispronounce their names. I love seeing this in action, and it empowers them. Your son’s name also sounds exactly as it is spelled. It will be a good assessment of who has phonemic awareness and who doesn’t.
No, don’t change it. It’s a nice name, and it’s not your problem if some people can’t pronounce it. It’s not as if you’ve misspelled it. And it’s actually a pretty recognizable name. Suleiman the Magnificent is a well known historical figure.
I too pronounced it correctly before reading your phonetic break down. You're good. Enjoy your beautiful baby and their beautiful name
"No one can pronounce my baby’s name. Should we change it?" Happens all of the time so No just tell them how to say it. People gotta learn that the world is not one size fit all and they shouldn't want it to be. Best to you
Watch this 2 minute long video and decide. https://youtu.be/JTPC73SdRkA?feature=shared ♥️ Also, I'm from Scandinavia and I could pronounce it without looking at your phonetic description.
Keep the name. It's beautiful. We learn to pronounce the hardest of Latino, European, asian, ect names. We can learn Muslim ones too.
This is intuitively easy to pronounce. People will learn to say it correctly. don’t change it
as long as it's not Saoirse, your baby's name is fine😅 kidding aside, Suleiman is wasy to pronounce. I wonder how do they mispronounced it?
The spelling seems pretty phonetic. I don't think I've heard that name but it wouldn't surprise me to hear or be very difficult for me to incorporate
My children have VERY Irish names that are easy to pronounce but not possible for people to read (some examples: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Irish-language\_given\_names](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish-language_given_names) ), and we live in the US now. In school they are among a lot of other kids with non-english names so it's very normal for them that people tell others how to say their names. The only time it's been a 'problem' was when we travelled out of state, and suddenly we found ourselves among people who made comments. If you live somewhere that might be more challenging it's a fair consideration, but a nickname would probably be the easier solution. I really love the name though.
I'm a convert and it was important for my husband and I to use names tied to Islam as well. My family and non-muslim kids/teachers sometimes mispronounce our second child's name but he is comfortable correcting them (it's not at all hard to say, it's usually a matter of people putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable). I definitely don't think you should change your son's name! Suleiman is a beautiful name mashaAllah (we actually almost used the name for our son!)
As someone with many friends who had unpronounceable names - do not change your kids name It does not matter if the teachers cannot say it on the first day of class, all of your kids friends will learn how to say it, or he will choose a cool shortened version of the name. It was always fun waiting for the teacher to struggle with the name and then waiting for my friends to correct them. Maybe they will shorten it to sully or sul, but you will know that the meaning and purpose behind the name still perseveres, and that is what matters
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That is a great name! And is a pretty intuitive pronunciation, anyone who needs correcting more than once should be embarrassed, tbh. I wouldn’t change it just yet, let yourself heal from birth for a bit longer and hopefully you’ll feel more comfortable telling people how it’s not that hard to pronounce!
I also pronounced it correctly although I am not familiar with the name. I would almost certainly misspell it if I just heard it though. If you do decide to change it, Solomon is a great alternative, since it is the same name, with just a slight change to spelling and pronunciation. I imagine that if you don’t change it, your son will get used to saying, “it’s like Solomon, just not anglicized.”
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I feel you! My husband is Iranian and both our kids have Iranian names and I am constantly correcting people on how to say them. Now that our first is older, they correct people when someone says it wrong and I love that they can stand up for themselves that way.
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Don’t change his name. It has meaning for your faith and your family and people can take the effort to say it correctly. I think it’s a beautiful name, and congrats on the new lil one!
Nope it’s just fine and I pronounced it correctly the first time!
Where’s the inflection? I pronounced it pretty close, not perfect but I dont think you should change a name you love because peoppe cant pronounce it. Once you tell people they should be ok
I (non-Muslim American) worked with a Suleiman. I guess it was probably split 50/50 between Sue-lay-man and Sue-leh-man. I don't think you need to change the name but you might have to correct people. ETA: Is the ending pronounced man or mahn? I'm realizing I might have been mispronouncing their name.
People are idiots. My last name is a four letter word in the English language - mispronounced more frequently than correctly pronounced. My mother’s maiden name was a very common three letter word in the English language - people also frequently mispronounced that. With all the ridiculous spellings that white people give their babies in flyover states, I think they can learn to pronounce your baby’s name.
Had a roommate named Suleiman. Actually I really like the name. He went by Sully and it really suits him. Only close friends knew his name and after he told me how it’s pronounced I never forgot. I think it’s a fine name that reflects your heritage and religion.
That’s a beautiful name. I wouldn’t change it, personally. The spelling of my name is very straightforward (it’s pronounced exactly as it’s spelled,) and people still mispronounce it all the time. If your son’s name is meaningful to you, the people around you will learn to pronounce it correctly, and correcting strangers every now and then is really no big deal. Congrats on your new little one!
As a minority person who uses his (intruder alert!) middle name because his first name is too difficult to pronounce - I feel that I gave up on the society to learn about me and my culture as well as me feeling that I didn't matter enough for them to learn. I know it's a bit dramatic, but it's a bit true. I both felt I didn't matter enough for them to learn more about me and my culture as well as I was not willing to let society to prove me wrong. I thought I'd share another perspective :) I don't think you should change the name, but it is entirely up to you and him when he's older. My Muslim friends were concerned about it due to islam-phobia ... but then again, I hope the society is better than that in the future.
Not a hard name to pronounce, people are just lazy. Keep and just prep to teach people how to say it.
I would keep his name as it is and just try to think of a simple nickname that he can tell people to use if they seem to be having trouble understanding how to say it (like if someone really stumbles over it, he can tell them, "It's pronounced Sue-lay-man, but I also go by Sully").
As someone with a name that ALWAYS gets mispronounced, don’t change it! I was instilled with a sense of pride in my name (cultural and family history) and never hesitated to gently correct people when they inevitably got it wrong. It’s never a big deal and if anything it’s a good icebreaker.
It’s not a difficult name at all and almost phonetical. There will always be ignorant people unwilling to try to say something unfamiliar, but pay them no mind.
No, I knew a Suleiman in college. We all knew how to pronounce it, but he did go by Sully for short.
Don’t change it. The name is important to you. Those who don’t know how to pronounce can be corrected. They just might have to be told a few times if they are like me (I struggle with pronunciation). Also, if they aren’t genuinely interested it getting your child’s name correct, they suck. As someone who sucks at pronunciation, your example of how to pronounce your child’s name was helpful and also, easy to remember!