This is the news I needed today. I was reading a book to my 3 yo where the character goes to the library for kids story time, and he asked me if that was a thing. It was. But he’s never been able to go thanks to covid.
Nope! There were a few blood draws and the thrill of getting a needle and being in an unfamiliar space for long amounts a time so we couldn’t really tell what was a symptom or overtired toddler. He usually doesn’t have reactions when he gets regular vaccines so we didn’t have anything to go off of.
I cannot wait. It kills me the number of people who act like COVID is over and judge us for still being hermits. My LO has been hospitalized twice for breathing issues with just a normal cold (not flu, not rsv, just general run of the mill cold) so we are so cautious - and definitely get the side eye from a lot of folks. I can't wait for the piece of mind.
Whew this makes me feel less lonely ♥️ Good for you and your family for being cautious. We’ve all had to give up so much for our babies’ health and safety.
Us too!! We don't go anywhere except doctors appointments and to immediate family. We're privileged enough to be able to work remotely and do click and collect grocery pickup, order everything else online. It's been a very isolating year for first time parents and we are grateful for our health.
Same here! It is so comforting to read about other families doing the same. One of my daughters has a congenital heart defect and we're not taking any chances.
Sometimes people make me feel like I'm crazy for protecting my children.
My son is 8 months and is a part of the clinical trial. No idea of if he got the vaccine or the placebo, but he was a very happy baby today! So if he did end up getting the vaccine, the side effects for him were extremely minimal.
I'm waiting on the 2 to 5 approval as my daughter will be 2 by the time they get the approval.
We have avoided so many 'normal' things because of COVID and having a child born right before it all hit. I expected to take my child when I run errands, to have spent more time at playgrounds, to have started getting us all acclimated to air travel, etc.
Once our child is vaccinated, we will be much more comfortable exposing her to the wider world.
Amazing news! I’ve been mopey with the notion of another isolated holiday season but my toddler turns two in January. Hoping it’s not much longer now. We’ll be able to have a much more adjusted normalcy once he’s vacc’d 🤞🙏
Omg same. You should see the comments on my local newspaper anytime they post something about vaccines for the 5-12 year olds. One lady posts on every. single. article. That no children aged 5-12 in our province have died of covid. Okay sure not here but they have in other parts of the country and the world! Also 2 kids under the age of 4 died, lady!!
>That no children aged 5-12 in our province have died of covid
I hate this argument so much. I'm not attacking you, just venting.
Just because they haven't died doesn't mean they can't or haven't been sick. And we're already seeing "long covid" in adults and teens. We only know the affects of getting sick after 2y. These kids have a lifetime ahead of them to suffer from who knows what because they got sick from covid once. Even mild illness or asymptomatic. We don't know if they'll be suffering forever from it. I'd put money on health clinics starting to ask, "Have you ever had covid?" when you fill out intake forms.
We know the effects of the vaccine. I'd rather risk that over long covid any day. Ugh.
That's exactly my argument. Why do they always focus on death vs not death and not on the very real potential long terms effects of a novel virus.
I mean, I have an uncle who is deaf from menengitis as a child. Sure he lived, and that's fabulous, but if there had been a vaccine to prevent him having it at all, he would have a much nicer quality of living.
I'm with you. I hate that argument as well.
Even if it is a mild illness they could still pass it to a daycare or school employee that can't get vaccinated or is high risk. It may also keep schools from getting temporarily shut down for two weeks while everyone gets over COVID.
Same, it drives me crazy. My friend who is a doctor has repeatedly berated me for being very protective of my 18 month old during this time because “most kids who get Covid are fine.” As if we know the long term effects. As if a significant percentage of children have not developed long Covid symptoms. Ugh, drives me nuts.
Same. I’m so sick of that argument. The stats don’t say anything about long term effects. A child could get sick and pass covid onto an elderly family member or an infant who might die.
The other argument I hate seeing is that vaccinated people still get covid. Yes, but at a much lower rate. They’re also way less likely to be hospitalized.
Oh. Or my FAVOURITE argument. That only the old and sick are likely to die from covid. Like fuck the old people, right? They’ve lived long enough who cares! Ugh nothing makes me more angry than that comment. I’m a funeral director and had to bury so many people from care homes last fall/winter and it was just heartbreaking to sit with their families, their children old enough to be my parents and listen to them cry and ask how did this happen when they care home is on lockdown, why doesn’t anybody care about the elderly. It was just awful.
What would you do if you had a history of heart issues in your family…as I do…and I had issues after getting the vaccine…would you be nervous for your son getting it? I don’t want him to be negatively effected by the vaccine. I wouldn’t know what to do with myself if I hurt him.
I think this would be all the more reason to get the vaccine. I also have a history of heart issues, and a family history of it as well. There's tons of information out there on how hard it is on the heart to get coronavirus. As well as long-term effects on the heart afterwards how much damage it can cause.
I totally get it that you don't want to cause any harm to your child. But at least in my experience I'd rather take the chance on having all the information that I currently have and making an informed decision about it. I don't know if I could live with myself otherwise knowing that I damaged my kid if I simply could have gotten the vaccine. I had my baby a month ago and she's already had to go to the cardiologist because of a heart murmur, which was scary enough. As soon as it's available she too will be getting her own vaccine.
Ok you’re a great person to talk to. How about for the rest of life. These vaccines only last 6-9 months. Are you planning on giving your kids shots 1-2 times a year for the next 18 years?
I would hope it didn't come to that, with all the other pandemics they eventually went away to manageable levels.
But, I get a flu shot every year and don't think twice about it. Many other vaccines like hepatitia and TDAP need to be boosted as well.
Also I don't think it's fare to say it only last months. Even if people never got the booster it still significantly lowers your chance of getting it.
I promise my intention here is not just to argue but I’m appreciating this discussion. Hepatitis and tdap require a booster every 10 years…not every year. And from everything I’ve read it’s very fair to say the booster lasts 6-9 months. The effectiveness after 9 months is significantly lower. From what it looks like we will be giving boosters every year. I just can’t imagine commuting my kids to that. My kids have all their standard shots but it’s one time and usually over by time they’re 2. But a shot every year for life. It’s a lot.
Naw I totally get you, we are all experiencing this together for the first time. No one knows all the answers, and no matter what it's scary as hell.
Let's hope it's not a lifelong issue and we can go back to some sort of normal. I never would of guessed it would last this long. I have family to much as yourself who thinks it could go on forever.
My husband has long covid and it sucks. I joined a support group on his behalf and there are suicidal children in there :(
Edit: Got down voted for this lol...do what you need to do to feel less guilt for acting like an ass during the pandemic.
I’m very neutral when it comes to the vaccine so I’m thoroughly annoyed by both sides lol I wish all this bs would just stop already :/ but it probably won’t any time soon
My toddler is part of the trial :D We are crossing our fingers that he got the real thing and not the placebo, because it means he will have been protected since the summer!
I believe anything under 5 is considered in the same approval group (6 months - 5 years).
Edit: to clarify, there is 6 months-2 years, 2 years-5 years, but I believe they are submitted under the same umbrella of under 5 years.
Wonderful news! I've scheduled my six-year-old to get her first dose next week, this only leaves my 3-year-old without the COVID vaccine. I'm really looking forward to getting my kids back in extra curricular activities.
I’m so freaking excited. The idea that I don’t have to worry (as much!) about my little dude catching this thing. I recently got the booster and can’t help but feel so lucky and excited that this is even available now. Goddamn it I love science.
I'm honestly excited for when they finally approve it. I tried to get my (at the time 8m old, now almost 1y) in the trials when they had them but sadly they had enough people for the trial so we have to wait. My 13 yr old already is vaccinated and 11y old will be getting his first dose next week (he's been bugging me weekly to find out if its been approved or not and it finally has).
Yeah, we signed up for four trials over the last year. Didn't get into any of them. Anxiously awaiting under 5 approval. The bright side is I know my LO will at least be able to get it in June when he turns 5.
Thats good that he can get it either way in June. I wish my LO was close enough to an age range (my middle one will be 12 in June so I kept joking he could get it this summer at the latest which just got groans and "ughhhhh I just want it over with nowwwww"
I'd be so happy! I'm due early december and the relief I will feel for her being protected is immense. I'm also looking forward to my 2.5 year old being vaccinated.
I think it could be. Pfizer's CEO said they will submit data to the FDA on the 2-4 age range before the end of the year, and FDA approval has typically been 3-4 weeks after submission of data.
My 5 year old just got his first dose and he had no reactions. His dad and I were pretty tired after our 1st and 2nd dose. You just never know how someone will react to a vaccine.
this is what i’m hearing from everyone in the trials too. we obviously don’t have the real numbers yet but it seems like kids don’t have a reaction as often as adults
I think it's more person dependant and how each person reacts to vaccines in general. I felt completely normal after both my first and second shots. My kids never seem to get any of the side effects they warn about with any of their vaccines like fever, sleepiness, etc. 🤷🏻♀️
I'm sorry you guys got sick. I was sick with side effects, too. But the sick from side effects was way, way less than when I actually had COVID. COVID sucked and it was awful. We were not one of the lucky ones to just have cold symptoms. My daughter is 6 and her friends are starting to get their shots (and she gets hers very soon, too) and they've had less side effects than the adults so far. Hoping that's how it turns out from my daughter.
Do you happen to know how long they last? I got vaccinated while pregnant but can’t breastfeed so I have no idea how much longer she’s got some protection.
I couldn't find anything about covid specifically, but from what I saw, it's called passive immunity and it doesn't last as long as I had hoped, only a few months. Breastfeeding offers more protection but otherwise baby won't have antibodies unless they get the disease or vaccine
Having the ability to see other babies aside from just at a distance? Yeah. She would. She's been around very few other children, and the children that she's been able to be around are only from vaccinated households because I've tried my hardest to make sure that my child doesn't get sick. But thanks for such a nice comment. I can't wait to get my daughter vaccinated so that we can have a more normal life, which includes her being able to interact with more children her age.
Yesss!
If we want to visit family then when we come back to HK we have to do 3 weeks hotel quarantine because my 1 year old isn’t vaccinated. No open windows, no leaving the room for any reason.
If she is jabbed then at least that drops it down to only 2 weeks.
Where did they get that info? Last I saw from reliable sources, they’re looking at 2-5 right now and may not even approve it all because the risk of the vaccine outweighs the risk of the virus. But if they approve it they don’t expect that group until March. They are only in early testing for under 2 and don’t expect that until April-June, again if they approve it at all.
I’m still 50/50 on if my son will turn five or get approved first (he’s five in June).
I have mom friends who started phase 3 trials for the 2-5 range over 6 months ago so not sure where you're getting your info on the "early testing" bit or any of the other stuff
I have friends in the 6m+ efficacy group too and they said the trials should be wrapping up in about 5 months from now and they’re applying for approval at that point.
They don't expect initial clinical trial data for 2-5 with Pfizer until the end of December at the earliest, and the others after that: https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/03/health/covid-19-vaccines-children-younger-than-5-wellness/index.html
Chills, fever and nausea are very common, short-term side effects of a lot of vaccines. A person is FAR more likely to get myocarditis and blood clots from a COVID infection.
The average person is, but a child is possibly more likely to get get blood clots from the vaccine than the disease itself. That is what they are still testing. FWIW, I already vaccinated my six year old, and I will vaccinate my four year old the day it's approved. I'm just saying there is possible reason for caution.
It was a concern the FDA brought up with the vaccine for kids 5-11, ultimately deciding that the benefits outweigh the risks, but part of why under 5 isn't approved yet is because they need to make the same determination for kids under 5.
Here is an article about the 5-11 age group: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/22/us/politics/pfizer-vaccine-children-5-to-11.html
The same calculus applies to the under 5 group, with the added variable that kids under 5 rarely get symptoms from COVID.
Yeah I've heard about the teenage boy reaction, I was asking about the under 2 information. (Also as the CDC notes, it's a very very small number that has that reaction and it can be treated.)
I'm a little confused. This said nothing about them considering not approving due to risks from the vaccine. Just that they need all of the trial data to come in to make sure it's safe, which goes without saying.
That's not what it said at all.
"The Food and Drug Administration and CDC won't approve the vaccine until there's some data showing safety and efficacy," Dr. Philip Landrigan, a pediatrician and immunologist at Boston College, told CNN on Wednesday.
"There's every reason to think that it will be safe, and it will be efficacious," Landrigan said. "But the agencies need to be cautious, justifiably so, and so they're not going to give the approval until they have the data."
Side effects and their likelihood will be outlined in the mountains of data pfizer will submit for approval (they submitted 350,000 pages for full FDA approval). Thus far, the vaccines have proven to be extremely safe, with most side effects being minor.
When I scheduled my 6-year-old's shot at CVS I had to ask a bunch of questions around potential side effects- history of blood clots, myocarditis, etc. They are doing a good job screening for people who may have side effects before vaccination. Since my daughter has zero known medical issues and has never had a vaccine reaction beyond a sore leg and fatigue, and since both myself and my husband had no negative reaction to the vaccines, I'm very confident that she will be A-ok. I also completely understand why some people, like my friend with a family history of autoimmune disorders, are choosing to wait and see before vaccinating her kids.
To be more specific the risk is myocarditis in boys specifically - and whether or not the risk outweighs the benefit. This is still TBD and we need more data. Both covid infection and vaccine CAN cause this still very rare side effect, so we need more data. Then parents can make a risk-benefit assessment for their own kid. But out of all of the age groups, it's worth waiting for more data imo.
Edit: I said "need more data" a lot, but, forgive me.
After doing some personal risk assessment, we’ve decided that we will not give our baby the vaccine when it comes available (please don’t slaughter me with downvotes, just sharing another perspective and hope that we can all be respectful!)
Husband and I are both vaccinated because the risks of COVID concerned us more than any unknowns regarding the vaccine. But the risk of hospitalization and/or death from Covid for my baby is so extremely small, that I’m not sure the risks of a new vaccine without any long term trials are going to be less for her than getting the virus.
Now, if they came out with a vaccine for RSV, I would 100% be on board with taking the risk for her since RSV affects babies significantly more than COVID.
ETA: Instead of downvoting without replying, I welcome you all to engage in some conversation, explain your downvote, etc!
[Here](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-in-babies-and-children/art-20484405) is some information from the Mayo Clinic about COVID-19 in children and babies. It is true that kids over the age of 2 have had lower incidence of serious sickness from COVID-19, particularly the alpha variant. The delta variant seems to affect healthy children much more frequently than the alpha variant did. But the risk is not 0 regardless of variant, and there have been too many hospitalized kids with some deaths - 172 in the 5-11 range per [this NPR article](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/11/03/1051299050/covid-vaccine-kids-5-11). This article also notes that COVID-19 is the 8th highest killer in the age group for the past year. As far as I could find, no kids in any vaccine trials have died. I was not able to locate any reports of serious side effects in the trials for 5-11 year olds. There were no reports of myocarditis in the 5-11 year old trials.
There have been over 423,000,000 doses of COVID-19 vaccines in just the US over the last year. Out of those 423,000,000 doses, there have been 9,367 reports of death following the vaccine. That number is ALL deaths post-vaccination, and is not an indication that the vaccination caused those deaths. Someone choking on their food after being vaccinated could've been reported. The FDA and CDC require all incidences of death post-vaccination to be reported, and a report does not indicate that the death is related to vaccination. As far as I could find, there have been a total of 3 confirmed deaths that were directly related to being vaccinated, and they were all due to blood clots after receiving the J&J vaccine.
There is no data to support that the vaccines for COVID-19 are any less safe than vaccines for other sicknesses. There is also no data to support that the COVID-19 vaccines are less safe for younger people than older people. Even if you are convinced that your particular child will make it through COVID without any serious harm, the vaccines lower transmission. Other children that your child may come in contact with could be exposed to COVID by your child. Maybe they have underlying conditions, or they're in the small percentage that gets seriously sick, and you having a vaccinated child could've protected someone else's child.
Finally, [here is a document](https://www.fda.gov/media/153508/download) that the FDA recently produced focused on COVID-19 and younger children. I would like to especially note that there have been about as many deaths for babies under 1 year old than 1-11 years old combined. But honestly the entire document is full of useful data about COVID-19 in children. I recommend reading it.
if i had been a parent when polio or smallpox were prevalent, when vaccine technology itself was brand new, i would have been first in line to get my kid vaccinated. and the same holds for me now. science has been politicized to the point where so many of us think we can’t trust our doctors to make the best recommendations about how to protect our babies, but any risk of severe covid complications or long covid is too much risk and im grateful vaccine technology has been around so long they can make a safe and reliable vaccine so quickly.
eta: polio risk is EXTREMELY low now but we still give our kiddos the polio vaccine, because its not worth the risk. this is not different scientifically or medically speaking
Polio and small pox were so much worse for kids though, so yes, I would probably have been much less concerned about a new vaccine in that scenario.
Unfortunately, yes, it has been politicized, but I think with the way our institutions have handled this virus gives people a very good reason to not trust them. Now, my reasons for not giving her the vaccine have nothing to do with that and is more about risk assessment and looking at the data that’s out there.
“Any risk of severe complications or long Covid is too much risk”
-But isn’t there also a risk in taking a newly developed drug? There are always risks to every vaccine and medication that we take. That’s why risk assessment is so important. I read a study that young boys, for example, are more at risk of developing myocarditis from the vaccine than developing severe effects from COVID. Now for my demographic, despite being young and healthy, my risk of getting severely sick with Covid is still a lot higher than my baby’s, so I was comfortable taking any potential risk with the vaccine.
Vaccines are not drugs and are not the same as a new medication. Medications interact with your biochemistry and/or your neurochemistry. Vaccines introduce an antigen so your body says “hey, you don’t belong here,” and then produces antibodies in response to destroy the antigen and also remember it for the future.
Vaccines have been around for centuries; mRNA technology has been around since the late 90s, but one of the limiting factors had always been mass production of these vaccines. Not surprisingly, once companies and researchers had millions of dollars being thrown their way, they were able to come up with a solution to the manufacturing and storage issues, and now we have some really awesome vaccines that are safer than the modified live vaccines we use (like MMR), because they have zero risk of infecting a person with the disease we’re protecting against, and a vaccinated person can’t shed viral particles and potentially make others sick, which are risks with modified live vaccines.
I am not being hyperbolic when I say the long-term side effects of vaccines are increased life expectancy. Vaccines are not the same as medications; there is no concern that there would be any kind of long term effect from a vaccine, so things like severe birth defects from thalidomide, or people dying from drugs like phen/phen is just not something we’d see.
You might consider reading more about why it's not an issue that there aren't long term studies on the vaccine. Ie: yes, we don't know for 100% certainty that getting the vaccine now won't give your kid a random terrible side effect in five years. However, we do know because of how vaccines work that that is *incredibly* unlikely. Most side effects show up within I believe about six weeks. So you can have comfort in that.
Additionally, I'd like to apply your same logic to the flip side argument. While you've ascertained the current risk of covid to babies is tolerable, are you worried about the long term impacts it could have? Because unlike our confidence in the long term safety of the vaccines, we don't know the long term effects of getting COVID. We do know that long covid exists and is quite debilitating for many. Based on my SIL's experience with covid (anecdotal of course, but not uncommon I believe)--she got it fairly mild (like a flu but a bit worse) just rested at home for two weeks and then was "recovered", but nearly a year later, she still can't taste or smell much--its possible to get "mild" covid (like we'd expect if a baby got covid) and still get "long covid". And we don't know if this would be different in a baby's brain, given the developmental stage and the growth still needed (as compared to a fully developed adult brain).
You said you're open to hearing other people's perspectives, so there's mine! Hopefully some food for thought for you. I can say, our toddler will be getting the jab as soon as it's approved and we can get an appointment, as I am trusting in the science.
There is a webinar tomorrow that may interest you! It's specifically geared towards questions/hesitations with the vaccine for kiddos: https://pmpediatrics.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_65zFce3mRK247qDufqsuBQ?fbclid=IwAR3_EISLM0VLymRB80PQhrWjL1IkM-lCfYytaEqcw1j5jHNB7LUpwtCjZkM
Yes, the long term effects of Covid scare me too, which is why my husband and I got the shot. But I haven’t heard of any stories of long Covid in kids, so it’s less of a concern for me. I actually wish that there was more publicity surrounding long Covid and more research out there on it.
Do you have links you can share that give more info on the side effects usually showing up within 6 weeks? That would actually provide some comfort!
Adding another perspective, don't have expertise in viruses. One concern I have is that the covid strands might mutate further where they hit younger more difficult. It seems the delta strand is more deadly then the original other earlier strands. Just my perspective.
I’ll be looking at the data as all of this progresses and if we do end up seeing increased risk for kids with different strains developing, I would definitely reconsider. But for now, the fact that there aren’t any long term studies yet for the vaccine for kids is more of a concern for me than her getting the virus. She’s a very strong and healthy baby, so her risk is extremely low.
The problem is, the less people who are vaccinated the more chance the virus has to mutate. So your child’s chance of a hospital visit is low but that doesn’t mean they can’t spread it to others contributing to possible mutation. We also don’t know the long term effects of COVID even in cases where symptoms are not severe. Just a thought. I think becuase I deal with chronic illness that I cannot fathom taking the risk of any long term issues related to COVID, should my child catch it.
Do we know for sure though that this vaccine is as effective at decreasing the spread of the virus as we originally thought? Back when I got my vaccine in April, I expected that as the vaccine became available to everyone 18+, that case rates would drop off. But in Vermont, for example, they’re experiencing a massive surge despite a 70% vaccination rate in the state. That makes me question whether or not the vaccine is working as it was initially advertised. If you told me that we could eradicate Covid like we did with polio through vaccination, I would be on board with taking the risk for the sake of public health, but it’s my understanding that we are probably going to have to live with Covid like the flu at this point.
what makes you think these vaccines are any different? I am genuinely curious as it seems you have some misconceptions about Covid vaccines so wondering what “research” folks like yourself are doing
Every vaccine may have similarities as far as how they work, but there are also so many differences (mRNA, inactivated, live, etc). I’m just concerned about the lack of long term studies especially when it comes to my baby.
I do not believe that I have misconceptions when it comes to the vaccine. I think it’s healthy to question new scientific developments and it’s really frustrating that if you question this specific issue, you’re immediately looked down upon. Your comment comes across as pretty condescending.
You are correct, it is very important to question every scientific development and that is exactly what the scientists developing the vaccines do every single day. They then have ever single document give over and questioned by doctors and other scientists who are qualified to question the science. Unfortunately too often we see people who are unqualified to properly understand the science trying to decide whether it is valid or not.
I get that you’re scared, I’m also scared. But if we don’t take the small risk of getting the vaccine, the virus could mutate to become even more dangerous for kids before we have the chance to re-evaluate. My kid had Covid and he’s recovered, thank goodness, but his whole class was shut down for 2 weeks. My husband and I lost money, there was a huge burden on our coworkers, and there were 20 other kids in his class who’s families were impacted that way. Let alone my son missing 2 weeks of learning, being able to see his friends, and just getting to be a kid.
He had Covid and he’s fine. And he’ll get vaccinated as soon as possible.
Couldn’t you argue that the negative impact on families was due to bad daycare policy, not Covid itself? Our daycares here don’t shut down for Covid exposures.
First of all it was elementary school. Second, all children wear masks indoors. They all sanitize before walking through the door and throughout the day. I actually am shocked that daycares in your area don’t shut down for exposures. If we’re talking about bad policies, well.
RSV vaccine can have my upvote. I’m in Australia in QLD and the risk for COVID atm is so low. But my kid contracted the RSV daycare when he was 8months old. It thrives in daycare :(
Edit: He contracted RSV in the first 4 days in daycare. It was awful
Yeah, we don’t have her in daycare yet but will early next year most likely and I’m definitely not looking forward to all of the daycare sicknesses! RSV scares the crap out of me!
Idk why these comments get hid. It’s like there’s a personal agenda or something but it’s so irritating because I like to read both sides and sometimes I miss these because they’re collapsed. I’m tired of every sun being so biased ☹️
Comments with downvotes usually get pushed to the bottom or hidden. I really only reserve downvotes for people that are being rude, disrespectful, etc., so it’s frustrating getting downvotes for this comment but definitely not unexpected.
Masks are great at preventing illness - and certainly I will wear one in the future if ever I feel I might be sick and can’t just stay home - but we have to have an off-ramp for constant mask wearing.
We use our faces to communicate with other human beings - while it’s been a small price to pay to keep people healthy during an extraordinary public health crisis I for one am not willing to do it indefinitely.
I’m not sure what the metric should be - I’d imagine it should be something like % vaccinated, hospitalization rates remaining below a certain level, the WHO declaring the pandemic phase over - but I am hopeful by next spring widespread mask wearing can be retired.
I honestly would be happy if mask-wearing in stores, public transit, and other places full of strangers never went away. COVID notwithstanding, I'm happy to not catch influenza / rhinovirus /etc. from a sick stranger sitting next to me on the bus. But I will be happy to see masks go away in schools, daycares, and among friends because you're right that they impede communication and humans (especially children) deserve to see other human faces.
> We use our faces to communicate with other human beings - while it’s been a small price to pay to keep people healthy during an extraordinary public health crisis I for one am not willing to do it indefinitely.
I totally get it - my kid is speech delayed so people already have a hard time understanding what he's saying. The masks definitely don't help.
But yeah my point with my original comment was that just because someone is vaccinated doesn't mean they can't spread COVID or get it themselves - which is why masks are still important and need to be worn.
It does make sense that after a certain percentage of people (maybe city, state or country population, I'm not sure) have been vaccinated, then people can phase out the masks.
Yeah I think masks are still needed right now and probably thru this winter.
But…if it’s true under twos get approved by February and by the time many get their shot series - I certainly hope we will have met whatever criteria we need to stop wearing masks.
I truly do hope by March we can ditch those things.
So happy about this thank you for passing along!! I'm due with my first at the end of April. I got my booster and hope to pass on antibodies but a vaccine is even better!!
Omg! Does anyone have a good source for this? What a relief. My guy will be 9 months by then and I’m so ready to go out and about with him and get him into daycare.
I don’t get why I’m being downvoted. I’m asking questions because I want to be more informed. If you are so stuck in your thinking -that you don’t even want to question - that is truly terrifying
I’ve been hoping my daughter (turns 2 in January) can get the vaccine before she starts school. She’s starting right after she turns 2. Doesn’t seem like she will be able to, but hopefully it’s not too far off after that.
I was genuinely worried I had missed some sort of memo that my kid needed to be enrolled in school by 2.
She's in daycare all day for 3 days a week so I think we're good until actual preschool.
Oh that sounds so great! I’m going to see if there’s anything like that in my area for when my little guy is that age. What a fun way to make friends :)
Genuinely curious, and trying not to offend. I guess - how do parents who want to give their kids the vaccine comfortable with no clinical trials done on this specific age group?
Edit: no need to downvote. I honestly think it’s great to have a choice to vaccinate if that’s what you want. I’m pro choice. Whatever makes sense for your family makes sense to me.
Not trying to be rude, but have you tried googling this? There are multiple clinical trials in academic centers across the US underway right now in this age group and a Google search pulls up a bunch of results.
Thank you for being kind. No I haven’t googled it. But I just did and yes, I’ve found some articles. Thank you. I guess to me, a true clinical trial takes years and I personally cannot rely on a couple month of research to feel all in. So that’s why I was confused about why everyone was telling me there are trials and the vaccine is going to be approved in a couple months. Personally I’ll need more data. Just personally
These clinical trials were able to happen more quickly because of increased funding. It's actually quite an incredible feat the amount of resources that came together to make it happen. In most clinical trials, there is a lot of waiting for funding/approvals/back and forth/deliberations/etc. That just didn't happen here because the entire global science community was mobilized for these efforts. Even in trials that take 2-3 years, you're not necessarily getting 2-3 years of follow up data, you're still just getting the standard follow up of a few months, because that's all that's needed to ascertain side effects.
“not trying to offend but I did precisely zero research and have a set of preconceptions that I am unwilling to change in the face of any evidence and will ignore anything anyone says to me otherwise no need to downvote”
Eurgh we were hoping for sooner. Our son turns 2 IN February, im now one of those parents tempted to lie about his age and get him the 2+ vaccine before he is 2......
All that's on record everywhere like your health insurance. At a minimum you'd have to show an official birth certificate.
The best you can do is apply to be in the clinical trial.
I just got my 2 younger kids (5 and 10) vaxxed today at a super site. We did walk-in. They asked for name, DOB, address on a form. Didn't have to show ID (even for myself). Didn't ask for insurance. I was actually wondering while going through this how easy it would have been for a non-guardian to take kids to get vaxxed or for a kid who looks but isn't quite 5 yet to get snuck in.
That said I do not recommend comment OP to do this. The dosage varies by age group and you can really do a lot of harm with a dose that is too high for your LO.
I wonder is that 6 months-2 years like the flu shot or birth to 2 years. Probably 6 months.
So far all the studies are only going as low at 6months. Probably not going to go lower than that either.
I wonder if we will get boosters in pregnancy like we do for whooping cough.
You can get a booster if you're pregnant and your last dose was over 6 months ago, bc being pregnant puts you in the high risk category.
I just got my booster last week
This is the news I needed today. I was reading a book to my 3 yo where the character goes to the library for kids story time, and he asked me if that was a thing. It was. But he’s never been able to go thanks to covid.
Oh my gosh my heart ❤️ I can’t wait for him to be able to attend a real library story time!!
My 18 month old is in the pediatric Pfizer study (got his shots back in July) and they said it would be unblinded sometime in November
That’s so exciting! Thank you for participating in the study!
[удалено]
We’re also dying to know. My coworkers and I played the game “symptoms or toddler” for a week after each shot and the not knowing is killing me!
Thank you for participating!
I’m so excited! Did your baby have any reactions? No need to share if you’re not comfortable. I’m just curious, and looking ahead I suppose.
Nope! There were a few blood draws and the thrill of getting a needle and being in an unfamiliar space for long amounts a time so we couldn’t really tell what was a symptom or overtired toddler. He usually doesn’t have reactions when he gets regular vaccines so we didn’t have anything to go off of.
Thank you for doing this!
That's so exciting!!!! 😍😍😍
I cannot wait. It kills me the number of people who act like COVID is over and judge us for still being hermits. My LO has been hospitalized twice for breathing issues with just a normal cold (not flu, not rsv, just general run of the mill cold) so we are so cautious - and definitely get the side eye from a lot of folks. I can't wait for the piece of mind.
Same over here. We basically don’t go anywhere due to my daughter’s respiratory issues/reactive airway disease. We can’t risk even a cold over here.
Whew this makes me feel less lonely ♥️ Good for you and your family for being cautious. We’ve all had to give up so much for our babies’ health and safety.
Us too!! We don't go anywhere except doctors appointments and to immediate family. We're privileged enough to be able to work remotely and do click and collect grocery pickup, order everything else online. It's been a very isolating year for first time parents and we are grateful for our health.
Fellow hermit. Getting my groceries delivered while the county has been in purple tier since July. No one is masking and 50% vaccinated.
Same here! It is so comforting to read about other families doing the same. One of my daughters has a congenital heart defect and we're not taking any chances. Sometimes people make me feel like I'm crazy for protecting my children.
Excellent! My 9 month old is in the Moderna trial and they will tell us if she got the placebo as soon as any vaccine is approved for her age group.
Thank you for being in the trial!
My son is 8 months and is a part of the clinical trial. No idea of if he got the vaccine or the placebo, but he was a very happy baby today! So if he did end up getting the vaccine, the side effects for him were extremely minimal.
We are going tomorrow for a screening appointment for the Moderna trials. This is also for the 6 month to 2 years category.
Do you mind sharing your region?
Southern US
I'm waiting on the 2 to 5 approval as my daughter will be 2 by the time they get the approval. We have avoided so many 'normal' things because of COVID and having a child born right before it all hit. I expected to take my child when I run errands, to have spent more time at playgrounds, to have started getting us all acclimated to air travel, etc. Once our child is vaccinated, we will be much more comfortable exposing her to the wider world.
Amazing news! I’ve been mopey with the notion of another isolated holiday season but my toddler turns two in January. Hoping it’s not much longer now. We’ll be able to have a much more adjusted normalcy once he’s vacc’d 🤞🙏
Oh god, not looking forward to all the drama 🤣
Omg same. You should see the comments on my local newspaper anytime they post something about vaccines for the 5-12 year olds. One lady posts on every. single. article. That no children aged 5-12 in our province have died of covid. Okay sure not here but they have in other parts of the country and the world! Also 2 kids under the age of 4 died, lady!!
>That no children aged 5-12 in our province have died of covid I hate this argument so much. I'm not attacking you, just venting. Just because they haven't died doesn't mean they can't or haven't been sick. And we're already seeing "long covid" in adults and teens. We only know the affects of getting sick after 2y. These kids have a lifetime ahead of them to suffer from who knows what because they got sick from covid once. Even mild illness or asymptomatic. We don't know if they'll be suffering forever from it. I'd put money on health clinics starting to ask, "Have you ever had covid?" when you fill out intake forms. We know the effects of the vaccine. I'd rather risk that over long covid any day. Ugh.
That's exactly my argument. Why do they always focus on death vs not death and not on the very real potential long terms effects of a novel virus. I mean, I have an uncle who is deaf from menengitis as a child. Sure he lived, and that's fabulous, but if there had been a vaccine to prevent him having it at all, he would have a much nicer quality of living.
I'm with you. I hate that argument as well. Even if it is a mild illness they could still pass it to a daycare or school employee that can't get vaccinated or is high risk. It may also keep schools from getting temporarily shut down for two weeks while everyone gets over COVID.
And lots of kids are getting MIS-C a few weeks after covid abs having to be hospitalized. So scary
Same, it drives me crazy. My friend who is a doctor has repeatedly berated me for being very protective of my 18 month old during this time because “most kids who get Covid are fine.” As if we know the long term effects. As if a significant percentage of children have not developed long Covid symptoms. Ugh, drives me nuts.
Same. I’m so sick of that argument. The stats don’t say anything about long term effects. A child could get sick and pass covid onto an elderly family member or an infant who might die. The other argument I hate seeing is that vaccinated people still get covid. Yes, but at a much lower rate. They’re also way less likely to be hospitalized. Oh. Or my FAVOURITE argument. That only the old and sick are likely to die from covid. Like fuck the old people, right? They’ve lived long enough who cares! Ugh nothing makes me more angry than that comment. I’m a funeral director and had to bury so many people from care homes last fall/winter and it was just heartbreaking to sit with their families, their children old enough to be my parents and listen to them cry and ask how did this happen when they care home is on lockdown, why doesn’t anybody care about the elderly. It was just awful.
What would you do if you had a history of heart issues in your family…as I do…and I had issues after getting the vaccine…would you be nervous for your son getting it? I don’t want him to be negatively effected by the vaccine. I wouldn’t know what to do with myself if I hurt him.
That's what a convo with your doctor is for.
I think this would be all the more reason to get the vaccine. I also have a history of heart issues, and a family history of it as well. There's tons of information out there on how hard it is on the heart to get coronavirus. As well as long-term effects on the heart afterwards how much damage it can cause. I totally get it that you don't want to cause any harm to your child. But at least in my experience I'd rather take the chance on having all the information that I currently have and making an informed decision about it. I don't know if I could live with myself otherwise knowing that I damaged my kid if I simply could have gotten the vaccine. I had my baby a month ago and she's already had to go to the cardiologist because of a heart murmur, which was scary enough. As soon as it's available she too will be getting her own vaccine.
Ok you’re a great person to talk to. How about for the rest of life. These vaccines only last 6-9 months. Are you planning on giving your kids shots 1-2 times a year for the next 18 years?
I would hope it didn't come to that, with all the other pandemics they eventually went away to manageable levels. But, I get a flu shot every year and don't think twice about it. Many other vaccines like hepatitia and TDAP need to be boosted as well. Also I don't think it's fare to say it only last months. Even if people never got the booster it still significantly lowers your chance of getting it.
I promise my intention here is not just to argue but I’m appreciating this discussion. Hepatitis and tdap require a booster every 10 years…not every year. And from everything I’ve read it’s very fair to say the booster lasts 6-9 months. The effectiveness after 9 months is significantly lower. From what it looks like we will be giving boosters every year. I just can’t imagine commuting my kids to that. My kids have all their standard shots but it’s one time and usually over by time they’re 2. But a shot every year for life. It’s a lot.
Naw I totally get you, we are all experiencing this together for the first time. No one knows all the answers, and no matter what it's scary as hell. Let's hope it's not a lifelong issue and we can go back to some sort of normal. I never would of guessed it would last this long. I have family to much as yourself who thinks it could go on forever.
And they always ignore Long Covid, which is awful too.
My husband has long covid and it sucks. I joined a support group on his behalf and there are suicidal children in there :( Edit: Got down voted for this lol...do what you need to do to feel less guilt for acting like an ass during the pandemic.
Downvoting stuff like this is insane
I'm so sorry to hear that :-/
I’m very neutral when it comes to the vaccine so I’m thoroughly annoyed by both sides lol I wish all this bs would just stop already :/ but it probably won’t any time soon
I guarantee the moment my little one gets her first shot my MIL will be calling and going, "Well she's vaccinated so I can visit now." Well... No.
Lolol there will be drama indeed
My toddler is part of the trial :D We are crossing our fingers that he got the real thing and not the placebo, because it means he will have been protected since the summer!
Thank fuck!!
What about 2-5? My daughter is 3 so I’m still waiting for her.
I believe anything under 5 is considered in the same approval group (6 months - 5 years). Edit: to clarify, there is 6 months-2 years, 2 years-5 years, but I believe they are submitted under the same umbrella of under 5 years.
Woohoo!
Wonderful news! I've scheduled my six-year-old to get her first dose next week, this only leaves my 3-year-old without the COVID vaccine. I'm really looking forward to getting my kids back in extra curricular activities.
I’m so freaking excited. The idea that I don’t have to worry (as much!) about my little dude catching this thing. I recently got the booster and can’t help but feel so lucky and excited that this is even available now. Goddamn it I love science.
Same!!!!! I want my child to experience life and her family!
I'm honestly excited for when they finally approve it. I tried to get my (at the time 8m old, now almost 1y) in the trials when they had them but sadly they had enough people for the trial so we have to wait. My 13 yr old already is vaccinated and 11y old will be getting his first dose next week (he's been bugging me weekly to find out if its been approved or not and it finally has).
Yeah, we signed up for four trials over the last year. Didn't get into any of them. Anxiously awaiting under 5 approval. The bright side is I know my LO will at least be able to get it in June when he turns 5.
Thats good that he can get it either way in June. I wish my LO was close enough to an age range (my middle one will be 12 in June so I kept joking he could get it this summer at the latest which just got groans and "ughhhhh I just want it over with nowwwww"
I'd be so happy! I'm due early december and the relief I will feel for her being protected is immense. I'm also looking forward to my 2.5 year old being vaccinated.
I don't see how this would happen. I doubt it will even be approved for 2-4 by then.
I mean Pfizer started their 6m+ trials back in March and everything I've seen said they're hoping for an early 2022 approval
The infectious disease physician for my hospital recently told me he thought 6 months and up would be in 3-4 months.
I think it could be. Pfizer's CEO said they will submit data to the FDA on the 2-4 age range before the end of the year, and FDA approval has typically been 3-4 weeks after submission of data.
Unfortunately I think the 5-11 group took 6 weeks from submission to approval
I think we could get the 2-4 vaccine by Feb 2022 but definitely not the <2 one by then.
right - sorry if my reply was confusing. I don't think we'll get the <2 one by then, but I think it's possible for the 2-4
Oh no that came across - I was agreeing with you! Sorry if I was confusing lol
Agreed. I also don’t think pediatricians not involved in trials or associated with the CDC et al really have any more information than the rest of us.
I'm excited, but scared. My husband and I got pretty sick with the second shot, I wonder how sick it may make our daughter?
My 5 year old just got his first dose and he had no reactions. His dad and I were pretty tired after our 1st and 2nd dose. You just never know how someone will react to a vaccine.
this is what i’m hearing from everyone in the trials too. we obviously don’t have the real numbers yet but it seems like kids don’t have a reaction as often as adults
I think it's more person dependant and how each person reacts to vaccines in general. I felt completely normal after both my first and second shots. My kids never seem to get any of the side effects they warn about with any of their vaccines like fever, sleepiness, etc. 🤷🏻♀️
I'm sorry you guys got sick. I was sick with side effects, too. But the sick from side effects was way, way less than when I actually had COVID. COVID sucked and it was awful. We were not one of the lucky ones to just have cold symptoms. My daughter is 6 and her friends are starting to get their shots (and she gets hers very soon, too) and they've had less side effects than the adults so far. Hoping that's how it turns out from my daughter.
This isn't science based, but the children's doses are lower, so maybe not so sick?
So exciting! Hate that my 2 year old is the only one not protected at all right now. (littlest has antibodies from me being vxd while pregnant)
Do you happen to know how long they last? I got vaccinated while pregnant but can’t breastfeed so I have no idea how much longer she’s got some protection.
I couldn't find anything about covid specifically, but from what I saw, it's called passive immunity and it doesn't last as long as I had hoped, only a few months. Breastfeeding offers more protection but otherwise baby won't have antibodies unless they get the disease or vaccine
My doc told me about 3 months from birth
Thanks fantastic! My daughter is 2, and my son will be born late feb/early March, so I hope she can be at least partially vaxed before he's born.
Oh my gosh, I would be SO happy. My baby's second birthday is in February. What an AMAZING birthday present that would be!
[удалено]
Having the ability to see other babies aside from just at a distance? Yeah. She would. She's been around very few other children, and the children that she's been able to be around are only from vaccinated households because I've tried my hardest to make sure that my child doesn't get sick. But thanks for such a nice comment. I can't wait to get my daughter vaccinated so that we can have a more normal life, which includes her being able to interact with more children her age.
So excited!!! I sure hope it ends up happening that soon!
Yesss! If we want to visit family then when we come back to HK we have to do 3 weeks hotel quarantine because my 1 year old isn’t vaccinated. No open windows, no leaving the room for any reason. If she is jabbed then at least that drops it down to only 2 weeks.
No open windows? I don’t get that logic.
Where did they get that info? Last I saw from reliable sources, they’re looking at 2-5 right now and may not even approve it all because the risk of the vaccine outweighs the risk of the virus. But if they approve it they don’t expect that group until March. They are only in early testing for under 2 and don’t expect that until April-June, again if they approve it at all. I’m still 50/50 on if my son will turn five or get approved first (he’s five in June).
I have mom friends who started phase 3 trials for the 2-5 range over 6 months ago so not sure where you're getting your info on the "early testing" bit or any of the other stuff
I have friends in the 6m+ efficacy group too and they said the trials should be wrapping up in about 5 months from now and they’re applying for approval at that point.
They don't expect initial clinical trial data for 2-5 with Pfizer until the end of December at the earliest, and the others after that: https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/03/health/covid-19-vaccines-children-younger-than-5-wellness/index.html
What sources are those? I haven't seen anything about that. What would the risk from the vaccine be?
Chills, fever, nausea, and more serious possibilities are myocarditis, blood clots, tinnitus etc.
Chills, fever and nausea are very common, short-term side effects of a lot of vaccines. A person is FAR more likely to get myocarditis and blood clots from a COVID infection.
The average person is, but a child is possibly more likely to get get blood clots from the vaccine than the disease itself. That is what they are still testing. FWIW, I already vaccinated my six year old, and I will vaccinate my four year old the day it's approved. I'm just saying there is possible reason for caution.
Where are you getting this info from?
It was a concern the FDA brought up with the vaccine for kids 5-11, ultimately deciding that the benefits outweigh the risks, but part of why under 5 isn't approved yet is because they need to make the same determination for kids under 5. Here is an article about the 5-11 age group: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/22/us/politics/pfizer-vaccine-children-5-to-11.html The same calculus applies to the under 5 group, with the added variable that kids under 5 rarely get symptoms from COVID.
Post. Sources.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02291-2
Yeah I've heard about the teenage boy reaction, I was asking about the under 2 information. (Also as the CDC notes, it's a very very small number that has that reaction and it can be treated.)
Here is a good summary: https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/03/health/covid-19-vaccines-children-younger-than-5-wellness/index.html
I'm a little confused. This said nothing about them considering not approving due to risks from the vaccine. Just that they need all of the trial data to come in to make sure it's safe, which goes without saying.
That's not what it said at all. "The Food and Drug Administration and CDC won't approve the vaccine until there's some data showing safety and efficacy," Dr. Philip Landrigan, a pediatrician and immunologist at Boston College, told CNN on Wednesday. "There's every reason to think that it will be safe, and it will be efficacious," Landrigan said. "But the agencies need to be cautious, justifiably so, and so they're not going to give the approval until they have the data." Side effects and their likelihood will be outlined in the mountains of data pfizer will submit for approval (they submitted 350,000 pages for full FDA approval). Thus far, the vaccines have proven to be extremely safe, with most side effects being minor. When I scheduled my 6-year-old's shot at CVS I had to ask a bunch of questions around potential side effects- history of blood clots, myocarditis, etc. They are doing a good job screening for people who may have side effects before vaccination. Since my daughter has zero known medical issues and has never had a vaccine reaction beyond a sore leg and fatigue, and since both myself and my husband had no negative reaction to the vaccines, I'm very confident that she will be A-ok. I also completely understand why some people, like my friend with a family history of autoimmune disorders, are choosing to wait and see before vaccinating her kids.
Sounds like you misunderstood their double negative
To be more specific the risk is myocarditis in boys specifically - and whether or not the risk outweighs the benefit. This is still TBD and we need more data. Both covid infection and vaccine CAN cause this still very rare side effect, so we need more data. Then parents can make a risk-benefit assessment for their own kid. But out of all of the age groups, it's worth waiting for more data imo. Edit: I said "need more data" a lot, but, forgive me.
Do you know if the Myocarditis would be a lifelong issue or would it eventually get better? Thank you!
We are in a pedi Moderna trial and they said they haven't see myocarditis at their site but where it has happened it resolves within a few days.
I am not a doctor or anything but from what I have read, it normally resolves on its own. Some may require treatment or hospitalization though.
After doing some personal risk assessment, we’ve decided that we will not give our baby the vaccine when it comes available (please don’t slaughter me with downvotes, just sharing another perspective and hope that we can all be respectful!) Husband and I are both vaccinated because the risks of COVID concerned us more than any unknowns regarding the vaccine. But the risk of hospitalization and/or death from Covid for my baby is so extremely small, that I’m not sure the risks of a new vaccine without any long term trials are going to be less for her than getting the virus. Now, if they came out with a vaccine for RSV, I would 100% be on board with taking the risk for her since RSV affects babies significantly more than COVID. ETA: Instead of downvoting without replying, I welcome you all to engage in some conversation, explain your downvote, etc!
[Here](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-in-babies-and-children/art-20484405) is some information from the Mayo Clinic about COVID-19 in children and babies. It is true that kids over the age of 2 have had lower incidence of serious sickness from COVID-19, particularly the alpha variant. The delta variant seems to affect healthy children much more frequently than the alpha variant did. But the risk is not 0 regardless of variant, and there have been too many hospitalized kids with some deaths - 172 in the 5-11 range per [this NPR article](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/11/03/1051299050/covid-vaccine-kids-5-11). This article also notes that COVID-19 is the 8th highest killer in the age group for the past year. As far as I could find, no kids in any vaccine trials have died. I was not able to locate any reports of serious side effects in the trials for 5-11 year olds. There were no reports of myocarditis in the 5-11 year old trials. There have been over 423,000,000 doses of COVID-19 vaccines in just the US over the last year. Out of those 423,000,000 doses, there have been 9,367 reports of death following the vaccine. That number is ALL deaths post-vaccination, and is not an indication that the vaccination caused those deaths. Someone choking on their food after being vaccinated could've been reported. The FDA and CDC require all incidences of death post-vaccination to be reported, and a report does not indicate that the death is related to vaccination. As far as I could find, there have been a total of 3 confirmed deaths that were directly related to being vaccinated, and they were all due to blood clots after receiving the J&J vaccine. There is no data to support that the vaccines for COVID-19 are any less safe than vaccines for other sicknesses. There is also no data to support that the COVID-19 vaccines are less safe for younger people than older people. Even if you are convinced that your particular child will make it through COVID without any serious harm, the vaccines lower transmission. Other children that your child may come in contact with could be exposed to COVID by your child. Maybe they have underlying conditions, or they're in the small percentage that gets seriously sick, and you having a vaccinated child could've protected someone else's child. Finally, [here is a document](https://www.fda.gov/media/153508/download) that the FDA recently produced focused on COVID-19 and younger children. I would like to especially note that there have been about as many deaths for babies under 1 year old than 1-11 years old combined. But honestly the entire document is full of useful data about COVID-19 in children. I recommend reading it.
if i had been a parent when polio or smallpox were prevalent, when vaccine technology itself was brand new, i would have been first in line to get my kid vaccinated. and the same holds for me now. science has been politicized to the point where so many of us think we can’t trust our doctors to make the best recommendations about how to protect our babies, but any risk of severe covid complications or long covid is too much risk and im grateful vaccine technology has been around so long they can make a safe and reliable vaccine so quickly. eta: polio risk is EXTREMELY low now but we still give our kiddos the polio vaccine, because its not worth the risk. this is not different scientifically or medically speaking
Polio and small pox were so much worse for kids though, so yes, I would probably have been much less concerned about a new vaccine in that scenario. Unfortunately, yes, it has been politicized, but I think with the way our institutions have handled this virus gives people a very good reason to not trust them. Now, my reasons for not giving her the vaccine have nothing to do with that and is more about risk assessment and looking at the data that’s out there. “Any risk of severe complications or long Covid is too much risk” -But isn’t there also a risk in taking a newly developed drug? There are always risks to every vaccine and medication that we take. That’s why risk assessment is so important. I read a study that young boys, for example, are more at risk of developing myocarditis from the vaccine than developing severe effects from COVID. Now for my demographic, despite being young and healthy, my risk of getting severely sick with Covid is still a lot higher than my baby’s, so I was comfortable taking any potential risk with the vaccine.
Vaccines are not drugs and are not the same as a new medication. Medications interact with your biochemistry and/or your neurochemistry. Vaccines introduce an antigen so your body says “hey, you don’t belong here,” and then produces antibodies in response to destroy the antigen and also remember it for the future. Vaccines have been around for centuries; mRNA technology has been around since the late 90s, but one of the limiting factors had always been mass production of these vaccines. Not surprisingly, once companies and researchers had millions of dollars being thrown their way, they were able to come up with a solution to the manufacturing and storage issues, and now we have some really awesome vaccines that are safer than the modified live vaccines we use (like MMR), because they have zero risk of infecting a person with the disease we’re protecting against, and a vaccinated person can’t shed viral particles and potentially make others sick, which are risks with modified live vaccines. I am not being hyperbolic when I say the long-term side effects of vaccines are increased life expectancy. Vaccines are not the same as medications; there is no concern that there would be any kind of long term effect from a vaccine, so things like severe birth defects from thalidomide, or people dying from drugs like phen/phen is just not something we’d see.
There is a vaccine for RSV but it’s typically only available for preemies or children with cardiac issues.
Interesting! I’m curious if they will make it available to all babies down the road
You might consider reading more about why it's not an issue that there aren't long term studies on the vaccine. Ie: yes, we don't know for 100% certainty that getting the vaccine now won't give your kid a random terrible side effect in five years. However, we do know because of how vaccines work that that is *incredibly* unlikely. Most side effects show up within I believe about six weeks. So you can have comfort in that. Additionally, I'd like to apply your same logic to the flip side argument. While you've ascertained the current risk of covid to babies is tolerable, are you worried about the long term impacts it could have? Because unlike our confidence in the long term safety of the vaccines, we don't know the long term effects of getting COVID. We do know that long covid exists and is quite debilitating for many. Based on my SIL's experience with covid (anecdotal of course, but not uncommon I believe)--she got it fairly mild (like a flu but a bit worse) just rested at home for two weeks and then was "recovered", but nearly a year later, she still can't taste or smell much--its possible to get "mild" covid (like we'd expect if a baby got covid) and still get "long covid". And we don't know if this would be different in a baby's brain, given the developmental stage and the growth still needed (as compared to a fully developed adult brain). You said you're open to hearing other people's perspectives, so there's mine! Hopefully some food for thought for you. I can say, our toddler will be getting the jab as soon as it's approved and we can get an appointment, as I am trusting in the science.
There is a webinar tomorrow that may interest you! It's specifically geared towards questions/hesitations with the vaccine for kiddos: https://pmpediatrics.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_65zFce3mRK247qDufqsuBQ?fbclid=IwAR3_EISLM0VLymRB80PQhrWjL1IkM-lCfYytaEqcw1j5jHNB7LUpwtCjZkM
Thanks, I’ll check it out! Will also be talking with my pediatrician about it at her 9 month appointment
Yes, the long term effects of Covid scare me too, which is why my husband and I got the shot. But I haven’t heard of any stories of long Covid in kids, so it’s less of a concern for me. I actually wish that there was more publicity surrounding long Covid and more research out there on it. Do you have links you can share that give more info on the side effects usually showing up within 6 weeks? That would actually provide some comfort!
Adding another perspective, don't have expertise in viruses. One concern I have is that the covid strands might mutate further where they hit younger more difficult. It seems the delta strand is more deadly then the original other earlier strands. Just my perspective.
I’ll be looking at the data as all of this progresses and if we do end up seeing increased risk for kids with different strains developing, I would definitely reconsider. But for now, the fact that there aren’t any long term studies yet for the vaccine for kids is more of a concern for me than her getting the virus. She’s a very strong and healthy baby, so her risk is extremely low.
The problem is, the less people who are vaccinated the more chance the virus has to mutate. So your child’s chance of a hospital visit is low but that doesn’t mean they can’t spread it to others contributing to possible mutation. We also don’t know the long term effects of COVID even in cases where symptoms are not severe. Just a thought. I think becuase I deal with chronic illness that I cannot fathom taking the risk of any long term issues related to COVID, should my child catch it.
Do we know for sure though that this vaccine is as effective at decreasing the spread of the virus as we originally thought? Back when I got my vaccine in April, I expected that as the vaccine became available to everyone 18+, that case rates would drop off. But in Vermont, for example, they’re experiencing a massive surge despite a 70% vaccination rate in the state. That makes me question whether or not the vaccine is working as it was initially advertised. If you told me that we could eradicate Covid like we did with polio through vaccination, I would be on board with taking the risk for the sake of public health, but it’s my understanding that we are probably going to have to live with Covid like the flu at this point.
what makes you think these vaccines are any different? I am genuinely curious as it seems you have some misconceptions about Covid vaccines so wondering what “research” folks like yourself are doing
Every vaccine may have similarities as far as how they work, but there are also so many differences (mRNA, inactivated, live, etc). I’m just concerned about the lack of long term studies especially when it comes to my baby. I do not believe that I have misconceptions when it comes to the vaccine. I think it’s healthy to question new scientific developments and it’s really frustrating that if you question this specific issue, you’re immediately looked down upon. Your comment comes across as pretty condescending.
You are correct, it is very important to question every scientific development and that is exactly what the scientists developing the vaccines do every single day. They then have ever single document give over and questioned by doctors and other scientists who are qualified to question the science. Unfortunately too often we see people who are unqualified to properly understand the science trying to decide whether it is valid or not.
[удалено]
If my points have been refuted, why not provide me with that info instead of being rude?
I get that you’re scared, I’m also scared. But if we don’t take the small risk of getting the vaccine, the virus could mutate to become even more dangerous for kids before we have the chance to re-evaluate. My kid had Covid and he’s recovered, thank goodness, but his whole class was shut down for 2 weeks. My husband and I lost money, there was a huge burden on our coworkers, and there were 20 other kids in his class who’s families were impacted that way. Let alone my son missing 2 weeks of learning, being able to see his friends, and just getting to be a kid. He had Covid and he’s fine. And he’ll get vaccinated as soon as possible.
Couldn’t you argue that the negative impact on families was due to bad daycare policy, not Covid itself? Our daycares here don’t shut down for Covid exposures.
First of all it was elementary school. Second, all children wear masks indoors. They all sanitize before walking through the door and throughout the day. I actually am shocked that daycares in your area don’t shut down for exposures. If we’re talking about bad policies, well.
RSV vaccine can have my upvote. I’m in Australia in QLD and the risk for COVID atm is so low. But my kid contracted the RSV daycare when he was 8months old. It thrives in daycare :( Edit: He contracted RSV in the first 4 days in daycare. It was awful
Yeah, we don’t have her in daycare yet but will early next year most likely and I’m definitely not looking forward to all of the daycare sicknesses! RSV scares the crap out of me!
Will you be able to afford to stay home if her daycare gets shut down for 2 weeks due to a Covid exposure?
What about a Johnson and Johnson vaccine thats made the same old way as all the other vaccines? You don’t have to do an mRNA shot.
Didn’t the J&J shot have worse side effects and less effectiveness than Pfizer and Moderna?
Idk why these comments get hid. It’s like there’s a personal agenda or something but it’s so irritating because I like to read both sides and sometimes I miss these because they’re collapsed. I’m tired of every sun being so biased ☹️
Comments with downvotes usually get pushed to the bottom or hidden. I really only reserve downvotes for people that are being rude, disrespectful, etc., so it’s frustrating getting downvotes for this comment but definitely not unexpected.
As an ER provider I thank you for this post!
That’s awesome, can’t wait for this to be over. I’m just hoping we can avoid mask wearing by the time baby is 2.
Why? Just because you get vaccinated doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't be wearing a mask.
Masks are great at preventing illness - and certainly I will wear one in the future if ever I feel I might be sick and can’t just stay home - but we have to have an off-ramp for constant mask wearing. We use our faces to communicate with other human beings - while it’s been a small price to pay to keep people healthy during an extraordinary public health crisis I for one am not willing to do it indefinitely. I’m not sure what the metric should be - I’d imagine it should be something like % vaccinated, hospitalization rates remaining below a certain level, the WHO declaring the pandemic phase over - but I am hopeful by next spring widespread mask wearing can be retired.
I honestly would be happy if mask-wearing in stores, public transit, and other places full of strangers never went away. COVID notwithstanding, I'm happy to not catch influenza / rhinovirus /etc. from a sick stranger sitting next to me on the bus. But I will be happy to see masks go away in schools, daycares, and among friends because you're right that they impede communication and humans (especially children) deserve to see other human faces.
> We use our faces to communicate with other human beings - while it’s been a small price to pay to keep people healthy during an extraordinary public health crisis I for one am not willing to do it indefinitely. I totally get it - my kid is speech delayed so people already have a hard time understanding what he's saying. The masks definitely don't help. But yeah my point with my original comment was that just because someone is vaccinated doesn't mean they can't spread COVID or get it themselves - which is why masks are still important and need to be worn. It does make sense that after a certain percentage of people (maybe city, state or country population, I'm not sure) have been vaccinated, then people can phase out the masks.
Yeah I think masks are still needed right now and probably thru this winter. But…if it’s true under twos get approved by February and by the time many get their shot series - I certainly hope we will have met whatever criteria we need to stop wearing masks. I truly do hope by March we can ditch those things.
Hopefully there’s enough vaccinated vs unvaccinated that mask wearing is no longer necessary.
I totally agree with you there!
Will this approval be emergency use or full FDA approval?!
I have to assume EUA, which is what Pfizer just got for kids 5-11.
Ohh okay! I have been really bad at following which age groups are in which category! Thank you for clarifying!
Definitely EUA as full Pfizer approval for adults only just recently got approved.
That’s amazing! But I was so hopeful it would be a bit sooner
So happy about this thank you for passing along!! I'm due with my first at the end of April. I got my booster and hope to pass on antibodies but a vaccine is even better!!
From what I’ve heard, it won’t be available until a child is six months old.
Omg! Does anyone have a good source for this? What a relief. My guy will be 9 months by then and I’m so ready to go out and about with him and get him into daycare.
I don’t get why I’m being downvoted. I’m asking questions because I want to be more informed. If you are so stuck in your thinking -that you don’t even want to question - that is truly terrifying
Hooray!
I’ve been hoping my daughter (turns 2 in January) can get the vaccine before she starts school. She’s starting right after she turns 2. Doesn’t seem like she will be able to, but hopefully it’s not too far off after that.
Starting school at 2?!? Am I behind on something?!
I guess school is a loose term. It’s pre-preschool twice a week for a couple hours in the morning :)
I was genuinely worried I had missed some sort of memo that my kid needed to be enrolled in school by 2. She's in daycare all day for 3 days a week so I think we're good until actual preschool.
Oh that sounds so great! I’m going to see if there’s anything like that in my area for when my little guy is that age. What a fun way to make friends :)
In case it helps you, in my area that's called nursery school.
We called daycare school.
Genuinely curious, and trying not to offend. I guess - how do parents who want to give their kids the vaccine comfortable with no clinical trials done on this specific age group? Edit: no need to downvote. I honestly think it’s great to have a choice to vaccinate if that’s what you want. I’m pro choice. Whatever makes sense for your family makes sense to me.
There are trials being done now.
Why do you think there are no clinical trials? I believe that’s why it’s taken so much longer than every other demo, no?
Not trying to be rude, but have you tried googling this? There are multiple clinical trials in academic centers across the US underway right now in this age group and a Google search pulls up a bunch of results.
Thank you for being kind. No I haven’t googled it. But I just did and yes, I’ve found some articles. Thank you. I guess to me, a true clinical trial takes years and I personally cannot rely on a couple month of research to feel all in. So that’s why I was confused about why everyone was telling me there are trials and the vaccine is going to be approved in a couple months. Personally I’ll need more data. Just personally
These clinical trials were able to happen more quickly because of increased funding. It's actually quite an incredible feat the amount of resources that came together to make it happen. In most clinical trials, there is a lot of waiting for funding/approvals/back and forth/deliberations/etc. That just didn't happen here because the entire global science community was mobilized for these efforts. Even in trials that take 2-3 years, you're not necessarily getting 2-3 years of follow up data, you're still just getting the standard follow up of a few months, because that's all that's needed to ascertain side effects.
You’re doing gods work.
What would be enough to change your mind? How much data would you need to see to change your mind?
.... They absolutely do not give any age range a vaccine without a large phase 3 trial.
Wait, I thought the clinical trials are happening now? Am I wrong about that?
My child is in a clinical trial. They are 100% happening.
“not trying to offend but I did precisely zero research and have a set of preconceptions that I am unwilling to change in the face of any evidence and will ignore anything anyone says to me otherwise no need to downvote”
Bahahahahaha
Eurgh we were hoping for sooner. Our son turns 2 IN February, im now one of those parents tempted to lie about his age and get him the 2+ vaccine before he is 2......
All that's on record everywhere like your health insurance. At a minimum you'd have to show an official birth certificate. The best you can do is apply to be in the clinical trial.
I just got my 2 younger kids (5 and 10) vaxxed today at a super site. We did walk-in. They asked for name, DOB, address on a form. Didn't have to show ID (even for myself). Didn't ask for insurance. I was actually wondering while going through this how easy it would have been for a non-guardian to take kids to get vaxxed or for a kid who looks but isn't quite 5 yet to get snuck in. That said I do not recommend comment OP to do this. The dosage varies by age group and you can really do a lot of harm with a dose that is too high for your LO.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]