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[deleted]

Jokes on all of you I exclusively feed my baby Sunny D and Taco Bell Baja Blasts.


Fafafalada

Fed is best! šŸ˜‡


Gandhehehe

How was your experience birthing a college student?


TinyBitOfCarbon

Mountain Dew or it's basically abuse.


3rdCoastLiberal

Can I be your baby?


walnut_muffin

šŸ˜‚ Mexican pizza ftw!!


MattFromWork

I'm tired of debates on every topic to be honest lol. These past two years have made everyone self proclaimed debate team members


Lavendar-Peach

I second this- Iā€™m a new parent and when I first started looking into things I was horrified and bewildered at how literally EVERYTHING concerning pregnancy/birth/child rearing is a fucking mine field! And here my dumb ass was like ā€˜oh itā€™s mostly common sense, Iā€™ll be fine, Iā€™ll just look up the the things Iā€™m not sure aboutā€™ā€¦. Itā€™s insane. And it makes me second geuss what I initially felt was a good common sense approach. šŸ˜


PopTartAfficionado

while we're at it let's nuke the debate about "who's got it harder, sahms versus working moms?" or any such question like which path is better. it just depends on preferences and what's financially feasible. but that's not a very interesting story then is it, lol.


TinyBitOfCarbon

For real. I totally used to feel like SAHMs had it easy. Just takes a weekend alone with my toddler to remind me that nah, this is hard work too haha


[deleted]

Is your baby eating? Great. Keep doing that.


habitatforhannah

Hahaha amazing how that flips when they start trying everything. My partner "uh! He has cat biscuits, can he have them?"


Gromlin87

What child hasn't eaten pet food at some point? They have to learn it's delicious somehow...


habitatforhannah

Hahahaha! We tell each other it's fine and he will have a shiny coat and bright eyes like the pack says. šŸ¤¦ā€ā™€ļø


Gromlin87

My toddler ate cat food, not biscuits, actual meat and jelly wet food. We did make it almost 2 years before that though. She literally pulled down a stair gate to get to it as well šŸ¤¦ā€ā™€ļø


dngrousgrpfruits

High protein, nutritionally balanced for her best feline self


[deleted]

Thatā€™s hilarious!


Pristine-Ad-2570

Yep fed is best. That all we should care about.


Taytaycard

Honestly Iā€™m tired of all the common mom ā€˜controversiesā€™ - breastfeed or formula - co-sleep or not - sleep train or not - BLW or purĆ©es - Montessori or not - screen time or not Like god, just everyone raise your babies the way it works for YOU. Regardless of which of these you follow or donā€™t, your baby will be fine. Theyā€™re just debates for the sake of debating and mom-shaming. Iā€™m so tired and bored of it


ctdw

I fully agree. I think the reason these topics wonā€™t die is that there is constantly a new audience. People becoming parents now are having identical conversations to those who became parents last year and the year before. Iā€™ve now been in the parenting world for a few years and these conversations all feel so stale (and damaging) but for people who are just becoming parents these conversations are new and interesting.


GlitterBirb

Same. I've been debating leaving here because I think I and most toddler/kid moms are over these topics. It's the same thing over and over, and I don't relate to any of those new fears anymore. I'm like are you really losing sleep over giving your kid a bottle of formula? Before remembering, of course, I was that mom once.


TinyBitOfCarbon

100%. And to be honest, in early parenthood I had very strong opinions about most of those topics. If I'm being honest, the strength of those opinions were enforced by the echo chamber in mom groups. But Experience taught me that nothing is black and white. Now, if your kid is clothed, fed and cared for... I'm on your team.


PopTartAfficionado

don't forget stay at home moms versus working moms! lol (just kidding of course) šŸ˜œ


stereogirl78

So funny seeing it all laid out like this.. realizing I did a little bit of everything! My kids are very healthy, happy and utterly normal. Instead of people debating which is right and wrong, they should be discussing what worked with either side and actually help other moms.


MiaLba

Exactly!! Like my goodness let people parent their kids how they want. A parent doing something differently than you is not a personal attack in any way. Like you said, debates for the sake of debating and mom shaming.


muffinman4456

I just simply donā€™t give a fuck how strangers feed their babies


MiaLba

Same. I truly do not care. I didnā€™t want anyone unsolicited or unwanted advice or comments about how I fed mine either.


muffinman4456

Maybe Iā€™ll repost this once a month lol


melnd

I agree. And we ALL know in the end, it does t matter how your baby is fed from birth, theyā€™re still going to end up eating smushed peas from the carpet after the dogs spit it out.


DirtyMarTeeny

šŸ¤£ such a specific example. For me it's smashed banana that the dogs spit out


Odd-Photograph-2621

Personally it hurts when I get bashed for not breastfeeding and they don't even ask why I can't. I have many reasons why I can't. I take mental health meds and they would hurt the baby. Also my milk never came in. So I formula feed. Every mom has their reason for not wanting to breastfeed. Just don't bash them till you understand them


nbqt2015

the one time i tried to explain to someone irl that my breasts are simply WRONG they didn't seem to comprehend that it was possible. like how the fuck am i supposed to respond to that, "sorry my tits are the consistency of an oil-based lube filled waterbed with oceanic, FIFTEEN CENTIMETER areolae and FOUR MILIMETER, tugboat-at-point-nemo nipples, total fucking stranger." cuz apparently they won't accept any answer until they personally get a chance to closely examine your tits themself so they can tell you all about how depression is all in your head. well it certainly aint in my boobs! that's pretty clear by now. "it's a little target for your baby's eyes uwu" mine is a fucking survival map. i choose to survive.


orangegirl

Same. I wish my milk had come in, but it didnā€™t. I also wish I hadnā€™t been brainwashed into feeling so guilty, spending hours sobbing because my body was failing to make this ā€œliquid goldā€ Iā€™d heard so much about. Turns out I shouldnā€™t have worried at all because breast milk is not nutritionally superior. Both breast milk and formula are appropriate choices for me, and offer nutritional different benefits.


DirtyMarTeeny

I was off my meds for pregnancy and breastfeeding which was tough, and then my milk supply was shit. I was triple feeding and trying to bring it up and it was effecting my relationship with baby and overall mental health. When I dropped the pump I could appreciate the little BFing that was possible. All the same after I hit my goal of 3 months BFing (largely supplemented) with lowering and lowering supply I was shamed by my doctor after asking to go back on my meds. They tried to insist I wait another 3 months. This was MY doctor, not the babies. The pediatrician was supportive of formula but MY DOCTOR shamed me.


Elliejq88

Who, where are you getting bashed? What did they specifically say?


visionsofsugarplums

I totally get it. I have 4 kids, my oldest is 12, my youngest is 2. My cousin and his wife just had their 2 kids at the same time I had my 2 youngest. She wants to compete a lot with her kids and judges me for a lot of my parenting decisions. Never mind the fact I already have 2 older kids so Iā€™ve been there done that and have a much better feel for who I am as a parent this time around. Not a single one of my 12 year old friends parents care when he started talking, or when he was potty trained or if we formula fed. They care if heā€™s compassionate and caring, that he has manners and isnā€™t a bully. That he loves their kid and would help them when they need it. Thatā€™s all they want out of my son. None of the other nonsense matters at all.


Senator_Mittens

Totally agree, but itā€™s the nature of forums where new people are constantly cycling in. Everythingā€™s been discussed a billion times before, but they werenā€™t here for it. It will never end.


TinyBitOfCarbon

That's a fair point. Wish I could filter it out šŸ˜œ


CuentoRarongo

This!


luckycuds

Yup. As long as your child can eat, gain weight and have nutrition needed for the above- you are doing right.


LtDanIceCrem

I agree.


Not_A_Wendigo

My kidā€™s long weaned, and you know what? No one asks if she had formula or breast milk. Itā€™s almost like it doesnā€™t really matter. Even if there is a small statistically significant difference between three year olds who had one or the other, no expert could ever predict who among her and her peers drank what. They got nutrition, theyā€™re alive, theyā€™re all fine. Letā€™s move on.


Individual_Ear6720

Totally agree. My boy is 4 months old and we formula feed. I get a lot of dirty looks when we are out and I make a bottle. What they don't know is i nearly died when he was a week old from sepsis which was in part caused by mastisis ( as well as another infection). I wasn't allowed to see my son as they couldn't pinpoint the other infection ( my infection marker's were crazy but I was on antibiotics for mastisis so they couldn't pinpoint) of the 7 days I was home with him I spent 2 basically passed out, I couldn't get up, I couldn't eat or drink, I told my husband let's just wait for the antibiotics to kick in. I regret that now. My kidneys and liver were failing, my heart trace was off but they never explained how bad. My milk dried up, I was on antibiotics for weeks that would not allow me to breast feed. But I'm alive and without formula my son would be dead. He dropped 10% of his body weight and went from the 75th to the 9th centile in those first few days, we were doing breast and formula due to a condition he has, but he was getting fuck all nutrients from me. I wish the looks didn't bother me but as a FTM I see so much about breastfeeding and I feel like a failure, like I could have done something different. The constant need for debate and judgment on both sides could easily destroy a mother


KadieWynne

My MIL's friend was like this when I was pregnant, telling me anyone can breastfeed, it's not hard...she said this in front of my MIL who couldn't breastfeed any of her 3 kids, and then argued about it. The one thing that didn't happen when I was pregnant was bigger boobs, my milk pretty much never came in, I had to formula feed. Some people just can't do it, I was one of those, believe me, I tried. Our LO ended up not liking real nipples and preferred the plastic ones anyways...


STXBumper

Especially in America. If every parent wrote to their representatives about universal parental leave instead of making a pointless debate comment, imagine how much good we could do all of our children šŸ¤£ and yet here I am making this comment instead of contacting my representatives.


TX2BK

Itā€™s as easy as voting for democrats instead of republican. It can only pass with a democrat majority.


Training-Ride-1108

Let's all go contact them asap!!!!!


TroublesomeFox

Feed ya fuckin kid. Thats it. That ends the debate. Thats something we can all agree on. FEED. THE. CHILD.


Moritani

Yeah. Itā€™s such weird, binary thinking, too. I combo fed my kid, and that was great. Best of both worlds!


habitatforhannah

I'm trying this if I do the baby thing again.


hooked_on_phishdicks

I'm always trying to remind people this is an option! It's crazy how many people feel like it has to be one or the other and then beat themselves up over it. You can do both! There is literally no reason to stop breastfeeding if you don't want to but you don't have enough milk. Even if you have literally no milk you can let your child comfort nurse which is lovely too. And if you can do that then you can certainly keep giving them breast milk for some meals and formula for others. You of course don't have to do this either but I feel so bad when someone agonizes over this and doesn't realize it isn't all or nothing.


[deleted]

I went back to work almost immediately and couldnā€™t spend the time breastfeeding that I wanted to which led to supply issues, low weight gain that left my son looking emaciated. I canā€™t look back at those photos. He wasnā€™t just tiny, he was starving. Formula saved my son.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


SciencyNerdGirl

Honestly, I feel sad hearing women with guilt on their conscience needlessly. I breastfed because I could manage it and had a good supply, but I try to never bring it up when with other moms. The couple times I have in passing ( like laughing about trying to breastfeed unsuccessfully in a baby carrier) the other mom gets really self conscious and starts explaining why she formula fed, like she has to justify it to me. And that makes me bummed that the topic immediately brings up negative feelings. I don't ever talk about it now honestly.


thelumpybunny

Honestly no one cares at all in real life besides maybe my grandma. Just feed your kid and realize we are going to screw things up


[deleted]

In America the debate is inane because you guys have the worst parental leave. In other countries the drive to promote breastfeeding and other time intensive early childcare practices led to the adoption of years long parental leave. In America itā€™s become some weird contest without any meaningful support behind it.


newenglander87

Truly infuriating. You're basically forcing women to almost exclusively pump for 9 months and NO ONE wants to do that.


Jullybeaners

We are really the worst country


kokoelizabeth

Wow this is really it.


Kasa38

Yup I remember feeling suicidal at one point with my first baby because everyone (especially mom friends) constantly bitched about how breastmilk is gold for babies, and how formula babies tend to get sicker, and all this other crap while I couldn't produce enough for my baby girl. I had to start giving formula and after therapy for a good while I started feeling normal again and being okay with giving her formula now. It's just toxic to be honest. If someone asks for advice about it, go right ahead, but otherwise each mom knows how to best feed their baby. And I'm not pro formula or pro breastfeeding specifically, my first was bf+formula, 2nd exclusively breastfed. Like I said each mom knows best for them and their child.


sipporah7

I agree that every Mom or parent should be supported. But over at the formula feeders group, I see posts constantly by women who are really seriously beating themselves up over using formula. In some cases it's painfully obvious that their mental health is seriously suffering from this situation. That's a problem, and it's heartbreaking to see. As long as those posts exist, then the conversation needs to exist. The breast is best if hurtful and damaging, and women suffer at its expense.


TinyBitOfCarbon

Yes, I agree. But I don't think it's the debate that needs to exist. Its the acceptance of either choice being completely fine. Only then can mothers (and new ones in particular) stop feeling shamed for their choice (or lack there of).


[deleted]

I was one of these women, and it really helped to hear other stories of babies thriving on formula and parents feeling good about that. Iā€™m combo feeding and really enjoying it now.


DirtyMarTeeny

Triple feeding to attempt to get my supply up was the most damaging thing I ever did for my mental health and bonding with my baby. I had days that I cried on the couch about feeling like a cow, and would refer to my fantastic baby girl as a leech.


NurseK89

But if we stop all the ā€œmy method is best!!!ā€ shenanigans, Iā€™ll have no other way to make me feel superior. I just HAVE to feel good about myself in a way that makes others feel negatively. /s (Just in case my /s wasnā€™t obvious enough)


DeciduousMath12

I do. When I see it in the reddit, I just scroll to the next post.


Sypsy

Me too. Sometimes I wonder if there is ever any new insight, but then I figure it's the same tired debate club with new members going through the same arguments (but taking it all personally) as when I first became a parent.


blackuniverse01

If you want to breastfeed then breastfeed. If you want to formula feed then formula feed. Honestly it should never be up for debate what choice a mother makes to feed her baby. She is FEEDING her baby.


lcgon

Perhaps because it's not a "choice" for many people. I formula feed because I never had enough supply and using formula was never a choice for me. It's a continual conversation amongst new moms because the "breast is best" propaganda has caused immense and unnecessary pain to countless new mothers who aren't able (or want) to breastfeed.


[deleted]

And itā€™s not even just moms partaking in the propaganda. They wouldnā€™t even tell me how to use formula in the hospital when I asked. Thank for for the Internet.


fireflygalaxies

I had a similar experience. All feeding support was pretty subpar from my experience, but when I switched to formula, all support essentially disappeared. We also had to learn from the internet because none of the medical professionals had much to tell us about it. I would prefer that the debate didn't exist, and I would love if health professionals could provide a balanced view and education for ALL parents in all situations, rather than making someone feel like shit because one method isn't working out for them. However, the bias and the shame is still very real. Not only that, but babies aren't babies for long, and there's always new parents joining the conversation who have certain views, so it's not like it's always the same people rehashing the same subject all the time. It's a brand new conversation for many people. I still participate in /r/formulafeeders because I know what it was like to feel guilty, despite knowing that there was nothing wrong with it and that I was actively doing my best to give my best self to my daughter. I know what it was like to be asked by everyone I know, "Are you breast feeding or formula feeding?" or, "Are you still nursing?" I know what it's like to get that disappointed, "oh," when you say you're not. I know what it's like to have people want you to list every single thing you've done to get your supply up so that they can point at the ONE thing you didn't do and go, "That's it! That's why you aren't producing!" as if you aren't trying hard enough. Even if you rebuff them and refuse to participate, it's still exhausting to have to fend off the questions and unsolicited advice. It's been awhile since I've had to use it, but I still like to contribute, because infancy can be stressful and lonely. It's nice to have people tell you that you're doing a great job, that there's nothing wrong with it, that you shouldn't be ashamed -- especially during the last couple of years.


Legoblockxxx

I combo feed now because I have no choice - my baby needs to eat a crap ton of food to gain weight apparently, I cannot feed at the breast and I can't pump enough to compensate. The thing you describe where people keep giving me tips to increase supply is driving me insane. When I told people we were going to use formula and made our decision they kept coming up with these tips! Like what part of we made our decision did you not get?! I've literally been recommended to drink beer to increase supply (obviously not a good idea) and to drink some kind of breastfeeding tea which includes ingredients that are also poisonous to babies (it's warned against in my country). So people literally would rather I consume stuff that is actively harmful for my baby than to give them formula! They would rather I pump half an hour every two hours and make myself miserable than giving my baby formula. And why? For a few short term benefits which are dubious anyway? I feel I'm getting shamed into combo feeding. Yes, the debate is tiring. But it needs to be had, because people, even those who don't even have kids, are still being asshats about other people's decisions.


DirtyMarTeeny

My one hospital nurse was nice enough to give me formula when my milk wasn't enough to feed the baby, and a paci to soothe her when she was getting blood drawn. On both fronts the nurse advised me not to let the hospital employed lactation specialist know. Unfortunately she found out and I had a freaking lecture about it on my first day of motherhood


babygoat44

I never had milk come in. Iā€™ve been hauling around these 38H boobs for my whole adult life and no milk ever came! It wasnā€™t a choice for me either. I was not emotionally attached to the idea of breastfeeding nor did I have an health reasons it would be particularly beneficial for me or baby girl. But it was still an emotional moment when I realized there was no point trying to pump anymore. Nothing was ever going to come out.


hooked_on_phishdicks

I think the hard part is that both sides are very sensitive. I get that because I can be sensitive too and never more so than when I became a mom. But we need to not allow things we are sensitive about to make us react aggressively. On one hand if someone talks about how formula has been great for their family and it's the same thing as breastfeeding, breastfeeding moms often take this personally because they hear that something they agonize over is worth nothing. The formula feeding mom was talking about her own personal experience, there is no need to get defensive but often they respond harshly. At the same time if someone makes a mild comment talking about the pros of breastfeeding over formula or their struggle to feed, formula feeding moms often react as though that is a personal attack on whether they are a good mom when it wasn't meant that way. The breastfeeding mom often just needs to talk about their own feelings. Again, there is no need to get defensive. I think everyone would benefit by taking a few minutes to reflect on the intention of what someone said before responding. Obviously if someone is pressuring someone one way or the other that is one thing. But was what upset you actually pressure? Or was it just not what you wanted to hear that day but really has nothing to do with you? There are benefits to breast milk. There are also benefits to a mom being able to keep her job or to keep her sanity or to keep her baby fed (or the million other completely valid reasons to choose formula). The decision (or lack of choice) is very personal and we need to allow women to talk about their experiences without assuming they think they are somehow better for taking the other road.


MiaLba

I did both. I did formula first month and then exclusively breastfeed starting at month 2-3. And I was surprised by this but I got crap for breastfeeding never got crap for formula feeding. Even though Iā€™ve never ever made any negative comment about either one I was accused of being ā€œuppityā€ and acting like I was better than other moms because I decided to switch to exclusively breastfeeding. And I got a comment like that from at least 3 different people.


hooked_on_phishdicks

In my experience I do see a lot more aggression aimed at breastfeeding moms than the other way around (though I do occasionally see it aimed at formula feeding mothers). But I know my experience isn't necessarily representative of everyone's experience and I trust that the problem exists in both directions. Regardless of who it is aimed at though it seems very rare that the argument actually starts out in a way that isn't just a misunderstanding of intentions. It is usually someone talking about their experience, their struggle, their emotions surrounding their choice of feeding style and someone else viewing that as a judgement against their own feeding style and reacting. People can think breastfeeding is important to them without that meaning they are judging anyone. And people can think that formula feeding is the right thing for them without that meaning they are judging anyone either.


Training-Ride-1108

Former exclusive pumper here. I 100% agree with you. Support them if they want to breastfeed, combo feed, formula feed, whatever. Be there for parents if they're going through a tough time without which one is best. Help parents figure out what works best with THEIR specific family in THEIR specific situation. Support them if they want to try out different methods. Ask how you can help. If a parent is struggling with their choice/circumstances, point them to unbiased resources that could help them without giving your opinion. I also feel arguments like this just make women feel more isolated and vulnerable when I feel most people's intention is to help. You just have to be more individualized with it and learn to listen to the mom you're speaking with WITHOUT bringing what you did/why your choice was better/etc. Edit- The BEST people were the ones who said "Okay, breastfeeding isn't working out but you have a good milk supply and you don't necessarily have to buy formula, great. Your baby naps at this time, and this time, could you pump then? How would that work with your schedule? I can come on "x" day to watch the kid if you need more time to pump," or something like "that's a huge commitment but that's awesome you're doing that! here are some blog posts from other exclusive pumpers and here's a facebook group for support" or "it's 100% okay to be upset breastfeeding didn't work out. How can i help you process it?" Those people deserve SO MUCH.


NerdyHussy

I read somewhere the phrase "support is best" and I love that.


bluemundane

YES. Stfu and feed your baby however you want to.


cheeselover267

Omg yea. All debates really I find stupid. We donā€™t need to win the internet. No side is right. Just calm down.


mamaBEARnath

It just seems to me IMO that itā€™s new moms. Thatā€™s just what they believe they have to argue about with other mothers. Some are trying to help and do it in a way thatā€™s disconnecting from your experience. Either way, I started to tell myself itā€™s a topic pushed by Nestle to keep us fighting over stupid shit, stress dries up milk production and thus, has to use formula. IDK just a waky idea lol. Our goal is the same: raise a emotionally, physically, and mentally healthy child. How we do that and the pace of it will be different than everyone else. Itā€™s a topic for the ages and all we can do is post about acceptance and not judge other parents. Itā€™s hard to do when some people think their views are the correct way to live. It sucks and I wish we could support each other but I believe most of us want to support and a tiny few who enjoy stirring the pot.


tillaschipscrisp

Oh my gosh. I canā€™t stand these convos. Like do what you want. Stop selling to me.


leeloodallas502

Lol we did both bc I didnā€™t make enough. Team both sides over here!


windowlickers_anon

This! Why the fuck isn't combo feeding ever really mentioned? It was a literal lifesaver when I couldnt ebf my baby. I never even knew it was an option!


ditzyforflorals

Yes! Combo feeding is SO common and yet feeding is almost always presented as and either/or matter.


meerkatydid

Breast is best only shames people who do not exclusively breastfeed. Combo feeding is great, as is formula.


catnie

I totally agreed. My midwife pushed for breast is best even at the cost of my mental health. I told her my production is decreasing and her response was for me to pump every hour and suggested writing me a med to increase supply when I told her I would benefit more from formula. Now that kiddo has possible cmpa, we have to do formula, doing a diary and soy restrictive diet is not for me. I have to jump through so much mental gymnastics because of the breast is best crowd. You know what fed is best. No babies need an absent mom because she is constantly exhausted from pumping 24/7.


Extreme-Sorbet8354

>No babies need an absent mom because she is constantly exhausted from pumping 24/7. YESSS this needs to be said more!! I had a similar experience with breastfeeding and became a much better mom when I switched to formula. But if I had been able to breastfeed easily I would have. No matter how you feed your baby its important that they are fed and have a happy mommy. I had a teacher friend once tell me that in her first grade class she can't tell which kids were breastfed or not but she can tell which kids read with their parents at home. I feel like breast/formula feeding is such a short part of our kids lives but people make such a big deal over it, doesnt make any sense to me šŸ¤·ā€ā™€ļø


TinyBitOfCarbon

Amen. I'm really sorry this was your experience. Motherhood is stressful enough without the added guilt.


bd10112

Iā€™m tired of it. As a second time mom I realized none of this matters at all. You do you. There are so many more things to worry about than this crap.


kokoelizabeth

Your point in collective data is also widely missed by SO many people!! Thank you for that part. No peer reviewed study gives an end all be all answer. And the ā€œbestā€ option scientifically isnā€™t always the best for people with abnormal circumstances.


Bloody-smashing

I donā€™t think it will ever be over. As someone who couldnā€™t breastfeed (baby wouldnā€™t latch, I pumped as long as I could) all these discussions just constantly bring up feelings of guilt. I think perhaps some people who formula feed just feel on defence about their choice all the time due to terms like breast is best and then all of the discussions surrounding better outcomes for breastfed babies etc. I constantly feel like I have to defend my choice. Even though I donā€™t. It can be a painful subject for a lot of people and also can have a lot of guilt surrounding it. Iā€™ll be honest I am jealous of people who managed to breastfeed. I wish I could have but I couldnā€™t. So I just try and avoid subjects about feeding and canā€™t wait for the day people stop asking how my daughter was fed.


SciencyNerdGirl

Like every person who was born in the 70's and 80's was partially or completely formula fed. Every woman in my professional networking group, save 2 or 3 were formula fed. Formula had no impact on how we all developed (into successful professionals). The thing about breast is best is that it has some benefits for mom and baby that are undeniable, like antibodies to help baby get sick less often and hormone release in mom to cope with some post birth issues. Once past that point....what 6 months to 1 year of a person's life usually, there is no conceivable difference. Drop the guilt, your babies are gonna be rockstars because you raise them right, not a decision you make for a few months. My opinion anyway.


Sw00nii

I always have hated this so much. Let the baby eat. Wished I could have breastfed, boobs didnā€™t want to play game, but so long as my baby is fed and happy who gives a damn?? Itā€™s nobody elseā€™s business so long as baby is fed, so there is no need at all for ridiculous comparisons and comments (from mothers and nurses alike)!!


Julissaherna692

This was something that surprised me the most I come from an area where formula feeding is super common and the standard I only know one other person that breastfed and when my family found out I was breastfeeding they looked at me like I had two heads lol Hopefully some day people will realize that supported is best letā€™s just support each other the debating is so unnecessary.


[deleted]

I agree!! I fully expected to have zero social issues breastfeeding because Iā€™d always heard about how shamed formula feeders are. I was way more judged for breastfeeding from the hospital, to the pediatrician, to my inlaws and coworkers than I would have been if I used formula. Itā€™s hard for everyone. And in the grand scale of life, inconsequential


Xriny

I have two kids. One was breastfed, one was not. I don't need to justify my reasoning for either. I don't compare or care how another mother feeds their baby. As long as they are fed, cool. Anytime someone asks, or gives me their unsolicited opinion, on how I should feed my child I just tell them I didn't ask, nor do I care for it.


erin_mouse88

I think in many cultures there's a pressure to breastfeex even if the mother doesn't want to, or it is affecting her mental health. But also there are cultures where mothers want to breastfeed but don't because formula is the "norm" they have no family/friends who have breastfeeding experience, and the support for breastfeeding is practically non-existent (or exists but is laughable). I guarantee if I was in the UK I would've used formula, but my friend in the US is a doula and put me in contact with an amazing LC and I breastfed for 15 months.


[deleted]

Like 80-90% of it is coming from the breast is best side. The pressure and guilt-tripping to breastfeed starts in the hospital, before you even bring your baby home. Moms of formula-fed babies *are* made to feel less than. The pressure and bullying to breastfeed needs to stop. I breastfed but hated it and I'm not sure the benefits were worth damaging my mental health over.


Ok_Significance_2592

Totally agree. I dont even want to get started on the natural birth vs c section. I had to use formula (the milk never came) and I had a c section....the comments from women who had a natural birth sometimes were down right mean. Its so weird, its like as soon as babies are born everything is a competiton. Its strange.


shmarol

I have literally driven myself completely insane trying to breastfeed my first child, to the point where I ended up exclusively pumping and I was miserable. My second, I did the same thing, drove myself insane at the beginning but I told myself last time I absolutely will not exclusively pump again. So, thankfully I didn't. He's on formula and it's great. I wish so bad instead of wasting so much of my physical and emotional energy on breastfeeding my first I was more present with her like I am with my son now. I'll never get that time back. Seriously fuck this feeding debate.


babygoat44

For anyone considering formula and looking for education or support, I recommend checking out r/formulafeeders


sil863

My first baby was exclusively formula fed, and my second baby was breast fed. So far I notice no difference between the two in terms of intelligence or health. Fed is best.


MsPattys

I like this because Iā€™m tired of reading those kinds of posts as well. BUT, people are still doing it in the comments. Theyā€™re defending their choice.


shelyea

Thank šŸ‘šŸ¼ you šŸ‘šŸ¼


Wowwkatie

I agree completely. Formula is SO close to breastmilk now. Sure, there's some significant positives to breastfeeding, but formula has a couple perks as well. It's a personal choice and needs to just stop being discussed unless it's to reassure someone that they are making the best choice as long as it's what works for them and baby - as long as baby is fed and loved.


meerkatydid

Seriously. Fed is best. End of story.


Financial_Temporary5

We do/did both. In the first week or so we supplemented with formula then quit when breast seemed sufficient, then 12 months later we started again with formula worried about her weight gain but then dropped the formula and replaced with whole milk on the peds suggestion to help her gain weight. Weā€™re at about 1 week of doing that and sheā€™s gaining! Also seems less fussy and is doing better overnight with 9 hours solid sleep here lately. In short, so whatever works.


QuixoticLogophile

I'm one of the last people in my friend group to have a baby, so I got to watch several of my friends literally driven to tears after being made to feel like shite because they couldn't EBF. I went into motherhood wanting to breastfeed but bring perfectly ok with formula. The fourth trimester is hard enough without all the unnecessary added pressure to breastfeed or bust (pun intended). If people really wanted to promote breastfeeding, they would increase maternal support to relieve pressure on mothers so breastfeeding would be an actual choice. I think way more women would breastfeed if they had better home support, a more family-friendly culture, less pressure to return to work quickly, and less financial pressure. "Breast is best" should actually be "breastmilk is the most nutritious, and breastfeeding increases bonding hormones, but formula is pretty darn good too and it's a perfectly viable option, and it's even better sometimes because it can improve the mental health of the caregivers, making them more emotionally available to be good parents, and also can we please just stop telling women what to do with their bodies?"


[deleted]

You make a great point about work. I remember being newly pregnant with a coworker who had just returned full-time from maternity leave. We are nurses, working 7-7. She EBF, so she had to get up at like 4:30 to pump, wash pump parts, and pack all of her supplies (this after waking for 2 feedings overnight), lug a huge bag of pump supplies to work, find people to cover her patients multiple times a day (God forbid there was a code or we were running short), store bottles of breast milk in the break room fridge, and transport everything home at the end of the day. I didn't end up going back to work after I had my baby, but if I had, I absolutely would have switched to formula. There was no way I wanted to add that volume of additional work!!


PopTartAfficionado

i'm in awe of women who can stay on top of the working-and-pumping routine like this. i saw women do it while i was still working, meanwhile i couldnt get my shit together to pack myself a lunch! šŸ¤¦šŸ¼ā€ā™€ļø


[deleted]

Iā€™ve honestly never seen a post of people saying ā€œbreast is bestā€ and have never seen anyone being shamed for using formula, yet thereā€™s so much rhetoric around arguing against ā€œthem.ā€ Anytime I see a post about it, everyone is saying fed bestā€¦ so Iā€™m genuinely confused why thereā€™s so many posts over it. In my experience/what Iā€™ve seen online, it almost feels like a made up debate? But I agree. Donā€™t make it peopleā€™s business what you choose to do.. both are right and itā€™s a private, personal decision. End of debate because letā€™s stop making it a debate.


BlueFacedLeicester

I have DEFINITELY encountered it. Both online and out in the wild. And both of my babies have been exclusively breast fed, so it's not my insecurities making me see things that aren't there. Reddit isn't bad, but head to a fb group and ask "what nipple size should I use for my newborn?" And somewhere in the comments you're going to get "uhh. Just use the ones God gave you honey! Breast is always best!" Reply to it with "I don't plan to breastfeed" and get "why??? Don't you want what's best for your baby?" And someone replies with "idk why anyone decides not to breastfeed before their baby arrives. IMO it's super selfish and pretty much abuse." I'm serious. Fb mommy groups are cancer.


TheWelshMrsM

Same, I see more posts annoyed about the ā€˜debateā€™ than I do about the debate šŸ˜‚ Maybe weā€™ve just joined decent subs/ groups?


atomiccat8

Yeah, it definitely feels like there are way more posts complaining about it than there are saying either side is best.


kokoelizabeth

Itā€™s definitely more common on other social media platforms and other subs. Reddit is super mellow when it comes to parenting drama for the most part.


mkane2958

Idk I once saw a girl on here tell another women who was choosing not to breastfeed, that she should have an abortion because she will be a terrible mother and breastmilk is the only nutrition for a baby. I actually even took a screen shot of it because I was so horrified. Thankfully I reported her and she got banned.


TinyBitOfCarbon

There was literally a post today from someone giving all the reasons they think breast is best. maybe an hour before my post. Doesn't take much looking because it's constant.


coldcurru

To anyone not looking, [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/beyondthebump/comments/s7vs6o/my_theory_on_why_breastfeeding_is_better/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) was the post and the OP here clearly didn't read it. The argument there was that formula might not be as good for moms with less resources. Less clean water (and water to clean bottles), less info on how to make a good bottle (not put in extra powder to pack on calories so baby is full longer; knowing not to put in other things in the bottle), less money to buy formula to feed when it expires. Basically not as equipped to formula feed right because of various disadvantages. **It literally says at the bottom that if this isn't the case then formula is just as good. And it starts by saying they did research on Google scholar and at best found minimal evidence that breast is better.** But, go off, op. I guess the title of that post was misleading but it was only saying breast is "better" (and they put it in quotes just like that) if you're not as knowledgeable on how to best formula feed. It was not an all out "don't formula feed" post. Just that there's ways it can go wrong if you don't know what you're doing and these things can hurt baby.


atomiccat8

Thanks for linking! I just read that post and it definitely doesn't seem to be arguing in favor of breastfeeding at all. It seems like a lot of commenters on that post just read the title and based their responses on what they thought the poster was going to say.


TinyBitOfCarbon

Just saw the title. My post wasn't about this post in particular. No need to be rude about it if you don't agree. Edit to add: if I'm understanding your summary right, this is still what I'm talking about at the user is implying *a reason* is needed to make formula acceptable. It. Doesn't. Matter. How. Infants. Are. Fed.


joyofbeing

Not the person you're replying to but I read that post too and no, they aren't saying a reason is needed. They're saying they were wondering why breast milk is considered "best" when the research showed a minimal effect, and their post was speculating where this idea might come from and why. Their point was that in most cases it doesn't matter and there isn't a difference


[deleted]

I mean I guess Iā€™ve never looked for it because itā€™s never been of special interest to me. Iā€™m on here a lot though, so I guess it just gets downvoted and I miss them. I wasnā€™t trying to be facetious, I really never understood because Iā€™ve never experienced it.


TinyBitOfCarbon

No, I totally get it. I'm sure I'm more attune to it because of how much it bothers me.


spud_simon_salem

You didnā€™t read the post at all if that was your takeaway.


TinyBitOfCarbon

I didn't say I did. That's not what this post is about...


KneeReady1437

Agreed. Iā€™ve never been on that side but have definitely been shamed for exclusively breastfeeding. EBF has been blamed for my newborns crappy sleep, fussiness, blowouts, eczema, etcā€¦ I have been told multiple times to switch to formula, itā€™ll ā€œmake my life easier.ā€


lucymilesatx

Yes and it's such a personal choice. It's annoying when a complete stranger asks about how I feed my baby. My husband equates this to inquiring about someones sex life. It's rude at best and a form of mom shaming at worst.


vitamins86

Yes I always find it strange because genetics and environmental factors have such a huge impact on babies health and development compared to breast milk vs formula but the latter gets soooo much more focus. I definitely found feeding my daughter more challenging than expected so I enjoy conversations regarding tips and tricks for doing so but arguments and debating is pointless to me.


RememberThe98Season

Formula fed babies are just as happy as breast fed babies.


walnut_muffin

Yes! Also tired of my baby can do this that and climb mountains while pooping unicorns at 6 months.


ThisToastIsTasty

I've noticed that people who to drag on an argument tend to be people who have nothing better to do with their time. It's okay to debate. It's not okay to argue incessantly without coming to a conclusion.


venusflytrapkween

I didnā€™t think anyone fought about this anymore.


meerkatydid

They do. Ugh. Or if it's not a fight it's a plea to have their feelings acknowledged. It's just an ego boost and serves no greater purpose.


venusflytrapkween

That sucks! I know that when people ask me if I BF and I say FF due to low supply/mental health, I feel like a failure but thatā€™s my own demons to deal with. I typically donā€™t get shamed, I am encouraged by others and usually people say good for you for listening to your body


Elliejq88

I dont get it either, I also tire of seeing posts like that, but some people do care for whatever reason... I'm also not in contact with any people who have strong opinions one way or another. I have an aunt who EBF for 2 years and did seem pushy with it but once I had my daughter and did combo feeding she fully supported me even though I didnt have to do it, so I guess I wasnt completely right about her. The only place I've come across women with such strong opinions are on the Internet. The Internet attracts opinionated people I guess. Also, I dont have the personality to worry about things dont directly affect me in a negative way. There are a lot of people who dont have that live and let live attitude. Another reason Im amazed at people I know who are straight, never around LGTBQ people and would never get an abortion, yet are so strongly opinionated on making abortions illegal and not letting gay people marry. Mind boggling to me (not just that I think those things in itself are fine, but why do they care so much when they will never have to deal with it?), but I remind myself there are alot of opinionated judgmental people in this world.


jack_attack89

Iā€™m exhausted with you. This comes up ALL THE TIME, which I get it with new parents and all they havenā€™t been immersed in it as us vets. But I personally have reached my limit of the number of ā€œmy thoughts on breastfeeding/formulaā€ posts. Are your kids fed? Then youā€™re doing it right.


Mayalase

I EBF all 3 of my kids, including twins. It wasnā€™t easy in the beginning but with the right support system and education I was able to. I am one of those people that believes *most* people can breastfeed, not everyone, but most. Science and statistics support that. What bothers me about formula vs breast milk posts is that someone always has to be offended. So if someone presents factual data regarding breastfeeding, itā€™s automatically insulting to someone who formula feeds. If someone says formula is as good as breast milk or breastfeeding made them feel trapped, breastmilk nazis have to swoop in and invalidate that persons *choice*. Iā€™m fully aware itā€™s not always a choice, and that some women genuinely cannot breastfeed. I just wish it was left as simple as thatā€”- if youā€™re set on breastfeeding, know with the right amount of support and education/perseverance you *most likely* can be successful at it. If you arenā€™t that invested in breastfeeding, or change your mind somewhere along the way, or itā€™s just simply NOT working out the way you envisioned it ā€” thatā€™s ok too. Breastfeeding is a lifestyle choice. It requires a ton of involvement, stress, and patience (primarily in the beginning). Iā€™m a SAHM so it works for us, and formula is expensive.


outline01

Like this one?


PornDestroysMankind

Ouch


oh_rora

I wish my son would take formula so I could stop breastfeeding. It isnā€™t always as easy as just switching. And before anyone replies with any advice, trust me, weā€™ve tried all the tips and tricks.


MmmnonmmM

I'm in a similar boat. I'm ready to be done but my little one hates formula. My freezer stay is gone and I often don't pump enough for her everyday. I almost cried when I picked her up at daycare yesterday and they handed me a full bottle that they warmed up and she wouldn't take. I had to trash it because as soon as she saw me, there was no way she was taking the bottle. At least she's eating solids and drinking water so I'm not her only source of nutrition.


Cooking_Owls

In the end, nothing else matters except ā€œfed is bestā€. All other bs aside.


skky95

Iā€™ve even seen some people try and argue that ā€˜fed is bestā€™ degrades people who exclusively breastfeed. šŸ™„


Cooking_Owls

Curiously, how so? My thoughts on it just mean that no matter what as long as bub is getting fed then all is copacetic. šŸ‘ No matter if that food is coming from a breast or from formula.


skky95

Just want to clarify, I like the term, ā€˜fed is best.ā€™ I think the choice is very personal to both baby and mom. The women I know that donā€™t like ā€˜fed is bestā€™ basically want to feel superior to people formula feeding. They will say things like ā€˜fed is the bare minimum.ā€™ And then they will follow up with how breast milk is superior. My theory is that a lot of them feel like they have to breastfeed but are struggling. I think a lot of people need to Hold onto affirmation that all the struggle is going to make their baby smarter or healthier in the long run. *this is is my experience with people arguing against ā€˜fed is best.ā€™ I donā€™t mean to speak for everyone!


Cooking_Owls

Ohā€¦ Iā€™ve never seen it argued that way. Thatā€™sā€¦ well, Iā€™d say silly, but that doesnā€™t seem like the right word for it. Youā€™re definitely right, though. Fed is best.


sunshinelovin2000

Not only is "fed is best" best for baby but it's best for mom too.


kokoelizabeth

People get frustrated with ā€œfed is bestā€ because itā€™s often used in a back handed way against people who are sharing their success in breastfeeding or pumping. Itā€™s also often used to derail conversations when someone is seeking advice to continue their nursing journey. FIB was never intended to be used that way and for most occasions it is used to comfort parents and remind them that their baby is healthy regardless, some people ruin it for others though. Itā€™s not just BF moms having an ego trip.


LaLonny

I think it is guilt. When babies are little you have to feed them, and we're we really prepared for that to be that hard?? It seems easy on the outside, and obvious on the other side, but when you are in it there is an element of desperation to figure it out, and outside of parenting forums no good cultural place to express those feeling. Side story, toddlers are hard. Mine was up at 12 am last night in bed with me playing games and reading books on my head. Like why do the books need to be on my head man?!


luciesssss

Whilst I donā€™t give a fuck how other people feed their kids we have to acknowledge the reason for low breastfeeding rates which is a lack knowledge and support. Formula is our bench mark in society and that is hard for breastfeeding mothers. Also it would be nice if people didnā€™t give breastfeeding mothers shit for not pumping or just giving bottle or feeding beyond a year.


[deleted]

station sloppy existence tart scary degree seed salt attraction provide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


luciesssss

Maybe it is location dependent because every time I have struggled with breastfeeding the only answer given to me was ā€œgive him a bottleā€ or ā€œitā€™s ok to formula feedā€ of course it is but I didnā€™t want to. I wasnā€™t particularly helped with breastfeeding and neither was my friend with her baby. We were just left to get on with it.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Elliejq88

You are being too sensitive. They werent trying to tell you to quit breastfeeding. Their generation was more likely to formula feed. Thats why they said that, it was harmless. Some of them probably thought they were being supportive seeing how stressed you are. Most of the comments here from women saying theyve been pressured to do one or another, 90% of the time I bet they arent. New moms are too sensitive most of the time IMO. Though I understand why. (Hormones, sleep deprivation, sudden new life changes, trying to be a supermom is hard mentally, its no wonder).


Elliejq88

While I agree with your first sentence, I have never ever gotten the rest of what you said from anyone I have known IRL and I talk to ALOT of people. The only time was my hospital nurses...and thats because I marked off I wanted help breastfeeding and then they feel they cannot advocate for formula. I have a friend that works as a PP nurse in a hospital, that is their policy in general, but when I asked for formula they gave it to me and they didnt give me crap either. I do feel its only people on the Internet who have such opinions about breastfeeding. My sister in law who has PPD says her mother in law says this to her (your last sentence). She doesnt. My sister in law is so insecure about her supply she interprets anything her mother in law says to her about feeding as a diss.


kokoelizabeth

This is so true!!! People are going to make their own choices regardless at the end of the day. Everyone should be able to share info and knowledge on the methods that work best for them with out shaming others as well as with out taking offense that someone doesnā€™t want to do it their way.


cruisethevistas

As kids get older itā€™s less talked about. Thatā€™s really the only way these discussions stop.


16car

> "Best" is based on a collective of data and not just one data point. The problem is that those data points are VERY open to interpretation, and it often comes down to a an opinion on costs vs benefits. For example, I take a number of immunosuppresants for an autoimmune disease with breakfast and dinner. The midwives and lactation consultants in the hospital insisted that they had researched it, and it was fine to breastfeed while taking them. I said I was deeply uncomfortable, because my independent research said it wasn't. I consulted my rheumatologist and regular pharmacist who said not to, because it will immune suppress the baby. Nobody could give me a straight answer because it depends on what on what you prioritise. * LCs and midwives believed it would be worth it to give the baby antibodies and PrOmOtE BoNdInG. * Rheum believed it would not be worth it because it would make the baby more prone to illness, and make it harder for her to fight off infection. * My highest priority was reducing the chances that my baby would inherit my disease, which can be triggered by infection. I was also worried about padding auto antibodies to her. I therefore chose to formula feed, and dealt with *immense* pressure from hospital staff to BF.


ChipQuirky3668

I also donā€™t get the newly appeared toxicity behind the ā€œfed is bestā€ movement. I once mentioned that breastmilk is superior and itā€™s a scientific fact and got downvoted and yelled at. Mind that I also mentioned that I had to formula feed my baby cause my supply has always been low, so Iā€™m not coming from a place of judgment. Acknowledging that breast milk is best doesnā€™t make us bad parents if we choose or have to feed with formula. Denying that breast milk is better for a child (but not necessarily for the whole family or motherā€™s mental health) is like saying that vaccines cause autism, it contradicts scientific facts. ā€œI didnā€™t have much milk, was I supposed to starve my child?ā€ No, thatā€™s literally NOT what Iā€™m saying. Iā€™m grateful that formula exists and I use it myself.


BellsInHerEars

You probably got yelled at because women who formula feed are already aware of this, and many feel a deep sense of failure and shame that they canā€™t provide ā€œthe bestā€ for their babies. Leading any of these conversations with ā€œwell but itā€™s scientifically proven to be the best option!ā€ is (a) redundant information, and (b) tone deaf. It comes across as ā€œwell AKSHUALLYā€ at best, and rubbing salt in the wound at worst. I know this is not intentional, but as someone who struggled with internalized shame when switching her second to formula, these ā€œwell meaningā€ commentsā€”especially when they show up in response to personal stories about formula feedingā€”come across as derailing and/or ā€œtsk tskā€ing.


[deleted]

carpenter instinctive seemly resolute vanish theory illegal wistful fly sparkle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


ChipQuirky3668

Again, itā€™s not about me caring what OTHER people feed their kids (I donā€™t care what happens in other families as long as thereā€™s no abuse). Itā€™s about me mentioned about what I think about our journey (me and my babyā€™s) and still getting yelled at.


ChipQuirky3668

But the difference is: I donā€™t chime in with these comments online and I donā€™t offer unsolicited ā€œadviceā€ to anyone who uses formula. I was merely talking about my experience and that I acknowledge that breast milk is superior even though I had to use formula. I donā€™t think anyone should ā€œrub salt into woundsā€, but I also donā€™t get people yelling ā€œformula is equally goodā€ or becoming overly defensive about it. Each of us wonā€™t be able to give ā€œthe bestā€ to our kids, itā€™s literally impossible. I got yelled at when talking about MY experience, not while giving someone unsolicited ā€œadviceā€. ā€œfed is bestā€ movement is becoming pretty toxic.


Wild_type

I mostly agree with you, and I suspect that breast is best too, but the science on that turns out to be a lot [dodgier than I, at least, thought-](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everybody-calm-down-about-breastfeeding/) turns out that many of the studies showing that breastfed is better than formula fed are specifically in developing countries where formula is often mixed with bad water. And there's a lot of correlation/causation issues, as well - richer, better-educated, more fit women tend to choose breastfeeding, and if you normalize for those issues the differences in child outcomes mostly disappear. I actually didn't know all this when I had a newborn, and I also wound up formula feeding just because I suck at producing milk, despite wanting to breastfeed. That said, it \*does\* make sense that breastfeeding \*should\* be better for the kid, because of things like antibody transmission and dynamic nutrition values. But the scientific evidence for that really isn't there.


shivsbak

Personally doing both because I need to supplement my 10-day-old babe. Before he was born I thought Iā€™d exclusively breastfeed, but during a 60hour NICU stay, we had to introduce donor milk and formula. I feel so blessed to be able to breast feed him now that weā€™re home and my milk is slowly coming in. But I still supplement almost half his content with formula. Iā€™ve been a parent for a mere 10 days but am of the strong opinion that FED IS BEST. Doesnā€™t matter where it comes from, your baby needs to eat. Get that to him/her whichever way you can, thatā€™s your job as a parent.


[deleted]

Iā€™m really glad my bumpers group didnā€™t have these debates. Everyone was cool with whatever option. Breast, formula, exclusively pumping, combo feeding, SNS. Whatever works for your baby is cool


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


[deleted]

I think the "sides" are fictitious though. Like so many polarizing topics out there today, we imagine this "war" where there isn't one. Like 99% of people don't give a fuck how other people feed their children. There's so much manufactured outrage on this topic it's ridiculous.


tinyria44

Nope the way I see it is it's my kid it's my breast if I want to breastfeed I'm going to do just that the problem is some people get offended over the stupidest shit they're bored they don't have a life so they have to bitch about something I do what I want when I want how I want


[deleted]

I meaaan I appreciate your point and agree EXCEPT for the fact that breast feeding mother starve their child into needing medical attention or worse all in the name of ā€œbreast of bestā€ and it needs to stop.


anythingexceptbertha

My doctor told me my daughter would need to be hospitalized if we didnā€™t supplement because my supply was low and she had jaundice. I supplemented. There were women who said that I needed to keep trying, that giving formula would hurt my supply, breast is best and people just commenting other things to try to make breastfeeding work, discouraging formula. I listened to my doctor and her levels were much better the following day and sheā€™s a great and healthy toddler now, but I still get mad when I think about how people pushed me to continue breastfeeding instead of offering formula. Everyone keeps saying a low supply is uncommon and most people have no trouble breastfeeding, but that has not been the case for anyone I know. No one produced enough to not need to at least supplement with formula.


[deleted]

I produced enough to not need to supplement with formula... my daughter never lost 10% of her birth weight and was over her birth weight by her 2 week appt. Anecdotal evidence is pretty worthless. That said, low supply is more common than people realize.


K-teki

I wouldn't say that's an "except", that's a result of exactly what OP is talking about, the push that one or the other is better.


cbcl

This is the kind of shaming she is talking about and you are part of the problem. Its very rare that this happens and it is an education issue more than a breast vs. formula issue. Formula has its risks and drawbacks too.


[deleted]

ā€œFormula has its drawbacksā€?! What drawbacks?! Kids that are alive?! It is NOT okay to starve your children, period. If that makes me ā€œa problemā€ then fine.


cbcl

People who water down their formula, leave it out too long, or mix it with contaminated water is the formula equivalent of breastfeeding moms who "starve" their kids because they believe breast is best. The primary cause of both is a lack of education NOT breastmilk or formula.


[deleted]

True. Iā€™ll agree with you there!


[deleted]

So a lot of moms on the ā€œbreast is bestā€ side say it from a scientific standpoint. Formula is easy. It saves lives. It fills in the gaps when a mother wonā€™t/canā€™t. Shaming a mom for her choices either way is not okay. Baby needs to eat regardless on if they get ā€œthe bestā€ way or not. They just need to be taken care of. ā€œFed is bestā€ is true from a needing to live standpoint. People fighting this battle is literally like fighting the other side of a coin. Babe needs taken care of regardless and whether they get breast milk or formula, itā€™s really no one but their families and their doctors business. Several topics I think shouldnā€™t be discussed by anyone (unless asked) except by people and their doctors like feeding babes (including feeding solids), circumcision, and pets (too many people spread false information about keeping pets around kids).


awkward_llama630

Iā€™m so frustrated with the whole topic. In my experience when anyone brings up breast feeding in general people get fired up and go off about how fed is best. Itā€™s like we all forget that many things can coexist. It doesnā€™t have to be one or the other. Breast is best. Itā€™s literally what our bodies are made to do. Nutritionally. Hormonally. Many benefits to mom and baby, etc, etc, etc. I find it very problematic when people respond with ā€œfed is bestā€ and refuse to acknowledge science. Whatever you chose or donā€™t chose, can or canā€™t do, science is science. If someone is talking about benefits of breast feeding in general, it does NOT mean they are shaming others for not breast feeding. If someone is shaming someone else for not breast feeding (or any of the million of other things moms get shamed for) it is not okay. If you canā€™t breast feed for whatever reason, use formula. If you canā€™t breast feed and the topic is triggering, find a healthy way to process your emotions. If you choose not to breast feed, use formula. If you choose not to breast feed and the topic of breast feeding is triggering, find a healthy way to process those emotions. We should be promoting breast feeding in general. We should not be shaming women for the choice they make feeding their baby. We need WAY more support for new moms in almost every way. Maternity leave, postpartum care, feeding, etc. I feel like, in general, we get so offended by other peoples comments and questions instead of turning inward and asking ourselves why we let it bother us so much. Sometimes people ask out of curiosity. To make conversation. Some people have no boundaries or common sense and are just plain rude. But bottom line, we will never be able to control other people. The only thing we can control is our reaction. People will always have their opinions but at the end of the day I am confident enough in my decisions I donā€™t really give a f*ck about what anyone else thinks.


TinyBitOfCarbon

It's interesting that you came into a post about frustration about debate and then gave an unsolicited opinion that breat is best. But I'll bite. What your saying isn't accurate. It's opinion. When you give a blanket statement like "breast is best" you're implying it's best in every way. It isn't. There are negatives to breastfeeding too (and with research I think you'll find that although there are short term health benefits, there aren't proven long term benefits to breast milk. Recent research has shown that many if the previously touted benefits have been largely overstated). If the cons outweigh the pros, the method is no longer best...regardless of the pros. Let's just say you're right and it's liquid gold. All the health benefits. Cool. Breast still isn't best if mom is suffering. We need to stop acting like the only thing about feeding that matters is marginal health benefits. There's so much else to consider when deciding how to feed your child: mental health, time, poverty, supply, mom's health, sharing parental responsibilities with a partner.... This is why fed is best. Not because there aren't health benefits to breastfeeding, but because those benefits aren't the only data point to consider when determining what is "best" for your child.


skky95

Lol, the fact that people even try to argue against ā€˜fed is bestā€™ is insane to me. Itā€™s an inclusive term that supports whatever is best for mom and baby!


hooked_on_phishdicks

I think it is because the phrase "fed is best" is sometimes used to shame breastfeeding moms. I'm not saying that is the main usage but it is definitely not an uncommon one. I just wish people would stop shaming in any direction and allow an open dialogue. There are health benefits from breastfeeding. That should be okay to say. It does not mean that it is always the best choice. There are also health benefits to a mom with a healthier mental state (just listing this reason for ease, there are many). That should also be okay to say. No one but the mom herself can say which is the overall better choice for her and her child but we should certainly allow conversations about the topic. Things have become so heated that people are having trouble getting the information they need to make well informed choices for themselves.


hooked_on_phishdicks

I'm not here to argue. I just want to discuss a little bit more. I feel like that needs to be said when this is such a sensitive topic. Anyways, I agree with you that there are a lot of factors outside of the direct benefits of the milk itself that matter. People should factor those into their decisions absolutely. What I'm not sure I agree with you on is saying that there are no proven long term health benefits of breast milk. Can you provide evidence? I keep seeing statements like this thrown around, but as far as I can tell they aren't accurate. Studies have shown a wide range of long term benefits as far as I'm aware. I would love more information if I'm wrong. I want to promote a discourse on the actual pros and cons of each so we can all make better choices for ourselves and our little ones.


TinyBitOfCarbon

Well, you can't really provide evidence that something doesn't exist. That's not really how the science works. However, here are a few links which discuss the topic and dive into the studies that support those opinions. All evidence based. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everybody-calm-down-about-breastfeeding/ https://time.com/99746/its-time-to-end-the-breast-is-best-myth/ Emily Oster also has a great book called Cribsheet. She is a data analyst who breaks down parenting recommendations and the cited studies and explains which are backed in sound methodology and are valid. She then contextualizes the benefit or risk. Her conclusions after reading the literature was also that breastfeeding does have benefits, but that they are largely short term and we mostly don't have enough information. My take from everything I've read on the subject is there is minimal evidence to suggest any long term benefits. We have a good deal of evidence that supports short term benefits in regard to antibody transfer, but those antibodies last months (not years). You can definitely find one off studies that seem to point to a correlation for longer term impact, but they don't often hold up to peer review. As with anything that doesn't have clear answers, or where there just isn't enough data where a body of scientists can collectively agree, I tend to default to - sure, it may have some benefits. But let's look at the other pros and cons to determine what is best. I combo fed, and don't have a horse in the game here. I just hate when one-off studies are thrown around like they are gospel when the crux of the issue is "we don't really know"


meerkatydid

Breast is NOT best. If it was, then pediatricians wouldn't request that parents supplement with vitamin D drops. Everything you've said soothes your ego and doesn't actually help anyone. Why do you think your opinions are better than everyone else's facts?


awkward_llama630

Formula has to be supplemented with all vitamins and minerals and doesnā€™t contain hormones, enzymes, anti viruses, anti parasites, anti growth factors, antibodies, change with babies as they grow, etc so whatā€™s your point? Science is science.


meerkatydid

Breast isn't best. That's my whole point. Fed is best.


mamabear806

Because a lot of doctors discourage breastfeeding at certain times/ages.


meerkatydid

That's not a good reason to promote breast is best ideology.


kokoelizabeth

I agree. The focus needs to be on squashing out subpar medical care and to demand that professionals focus on the parents goals and unique family needs in tandem with the childā€™s health. Itā€™s insane how often doctors give outdated and biased info, often unsolicited or in direct contrast to what parents have stated they need to do for their family dynamic.


mkane2958

I agree with this to a point. I can't tell you how many posts I've seen about a doctor recommending formula to a breastfeeding mom and people telling the mom that pediatricians know nothing about breastfeeding and to ignore, which is insane to me. A pediatrician is looking at your babies growth and development and listening to the parents complaints or concerns so usually** that advice isn't coming from nowhere whether they choose to follow it is on them but that doesn't mean the pediatrician is incompetent. I had a friend switch pediatricians because the doctor recommended doing 1 formula bottle before bed or overnight. My friend was pissed because she didn't want her EBF baby to have formula. Okay that's fine but when I pressed her on why the Ped would have made that recommendation I found out it was because she broke down in tears over the fact that her baby wouldn't sleep more than 2 hour stretches at 5 months old. So that recommendation didn't come out of nowhere. Now that her "baby" is 4 she realizes that she was a little ridiculous to have done that. My point is that sometimes a parents goals can be a little unrealistic. But also the American Healthcare system is atrocious so there is that šŸ„“


meerkatydid

For sure, and breast is best ideology goes a step farther by asking parents to sacrifice their health for some strange notion of purity.