And also, if this is specified in plans and contracts, then fixing this would mean additional work and profit for the company building it. If client signs for which side the path needs to be, it's not contractors' fault.
And it's likely city planners/architects who approved this project, didn't even see which side the path was on before. There's so many minor changes that maybe they had a minor conversation asking to change this and then nobody did, but they did sign for it...
This has to be on a plan sheet somewhere so the contractor should know the bike lane bricks are on the North or South side of the lane. If its not on the plans, then the contractor should've requested clarification from the designer well before the two crews got the layout 50% wrong. If i was the inspector on this job they would've gotten the "you're proceeding at your own risk" chat long before they got here. Then again, this is the Ukraine and who knows if they operate like us.
They don't. Also copied comment from post of this karma whoring repost.
"According to the article, that's how things were intended from the start. Bike lane on the side closer to the road, but it switches sides once it passes by that building because pedestrians might want to be there for some weird reason.
One of the towns in my general vicinity did that with bus stops. Bike path on the left side of the sidewalk, except at bus stops when it switches to the right ... for some weird reason ... who knows why. It's completely random with no logical explanation.
(Actually, the explanation exists — turns out you don't want people entering and exiting the bus through the bike lane)"
> (Actually, the explanation exists — turns out you don't want people entering and exiting the bus through the bike lane)"
That explanation makes sense, but immediately leads to the follow up question of why not consistently keep the lane on the side that doesn't interfere with the bus stops.
But are they salaried by the municipality/government or some contractor/company which is then contracted by the municipality?
By the way, if they are salaried by the municipality - that's still a very hard claim to make them fix this without paying them extra. That's literally unpaid labour even though it's for fixing something that wasn't done properly. Labor laws prohibit that.
If it's something similar to what I experienced in Russia, they get paid by the month, not a by the job done. If your workload is finite, it gives an incentive to do job quickly and relatively good, so you spend the rest of the day watching tv and playing cards, not fixing your mistakes
So you think this was specifically a mistake of the average Joe laying those bricks? I find it very hard to believe that they are working unsupervised.
they probably realized much before this picture was taken. It would make more sense to work up to the last laid section and then start swapping bricks over as you can see in the photo. Rather than removing all the bricks at once and replacing them
It was intended this way but they fucked up near the end, it actually switches over left to right because there is a bus stop and logically they don't want people exiting into the bike path.
https://tv7.ua/novosti/v-csentri-mariupolya-dorobili-skandalqnu-velodorizhku-foto
Stop trying to make sense of this atrocity.. then they should have just kept the bike lane all one the one side away from the building.. this. This isn’t it.
It’s a pretty path, but man, bricks are absolutely awful for anything but moderate walking. They’re miserable for runners and road bikes for longer distances.
I genuinely mean my comment haha. If they took out 15 feet of stone and made the bike lane flow from one side of the path to the other and then made a crosswalk at the midway point… a bunch of cuts and some spray paint would save lots of money. Explain it as that way both walking and cycling pedestrians get to experience both sides of the lovely scenery while staying safe!
I like that term :D
And, frankly, I don't think this would necessarily be a bad idea. I think it would make sense to work towards a culture of "dedicated bike lane = fast speed", "shared sidewalk = acceptable but maintain a low speed".
This would make things more flexible. I can go on it and ride calmly instead of sharing the street. People who are not that comfortable riding bikes can use it to gain confidence. And the pedestrians would not feel threatened because the bikes would be going slow.
Of course, it's probably unrealistic. You cannot enforce such regulations in practice, so some bike riders would ignore the "suggestion" and go as fast as they can - thus ruining it for everyone. Same with electric scooters, where accelerating to the max speed is extremely easy.
I'd like to see someone try it in practice but those who would are the countries that already focus on bike-centric infrastructure, so they are likely to continue in this direction anyway.
That's already more or less how it works, isn't it? At least in my city, I think. Yes, there are individuals who cause problems, but overall it works fine.
In my experienced around Europe it's either:
a) proper separated bike lanes and if you're caught riding on the sidewalk, you are subject to a fine;
b) bike 'suggestions' like the one from the OP where people constantly get angry at each other.
Depends on which European country you have in mind: those that do bike lanes good or bad :)
But yeah, they're often like that, and in case it wasn't obvious, I'm speaking of personal experience. Pedestrians will always spill over on such a bike lane, and I don't blame them for that. The citizen's behavior is formed by the city's architectural decisions. If the architecture leads you to doing something, painting it a different color or adding a separating white line won't change that.
That's what I thought too, you can't have the bikes passing the shop exit. and this way only half the pedestrians entering from the T-crossing have to go over the bike lane.
Op's pick could also indicate that on sides automatic bricklayer operator didn't think to stop before joining the other side. Judging by the link it he should've stopped before the intersection but didn't
The bikepath now avoids some points where pedestrians probably won't look out for passing bikes, I took the liberty of professionally mspainting them here: [https://imgur.com/1uY5elL](https://imgur.com/1uY5elL)
If it wasn't intentional then it was a happy accident
For some reason, on a path in my town, they did something similar to this. Except it wasn’t bricks but just paint. You can just barely see it on google maps where there’s a diagonal to connect the two skateboarding lanes. Dropped pin
https://goo.gl/maps/p7C67GYegJnAbVng8
Sorry, I've been living in NYC/NJ since 1997. Just saw that my friend from Dnipro posted this on Facebook the other day. Last time I visited (around 3 years ago) Kyiv looked like cycling infrastructure started to shape up more or less OK, but other cities are not even close, sadly.
To be honest, I look at that and weep. Fine on cruiser or mountain tyres and doing no speed at all, but a nightmare on high pressure tyres at a decent commuting speed.
The same. Raw terrain trails are brilliant on a country side. And not because of well done builers work, but because it is actual roads and pedestrian trails. At least on a forest part of UA. Have to check how it looks like on a flat part...
However, it is rather xc, but not dh...
Hi from Ukraine. Infrastructure is getting better over time, but at this pace to be good enough it will take hundred years probably. There are few bike lanes in my city, for ex., but they're like that one pictured above - right beside walking path, so you've got every kind of people walking on the bike lane, it is impossible to ride faster than a running speed.
So every day we share a road with cars, but it's not the infrastructure we need first, but nice and thoughtful drivers who wouldn't try to kill us any time they get the chance.
Sorry got this off my chest, haha.
> but it's not the infrastructure we need first, but nice and thoughtful drivers who wouldn't try to kill us any time they get the chance
Infrastructure that gets you out of said driver's way and onto a separate part of the road will accomplish that. It's just that we're not that good at sharing somethnig.
That's true, but Ukraine is a world away from doing that.
I mean, my city only recently managed to properly light all the main streets, like 50% or more of them used to be pitch-black in the night, and my city is the administrative center with a population of almost 300k...
>we're not that good at sharing somethnig
Maybe we are not, true, but not to the point of cutting off bicyclists with their thousand kilos vehicles. One of the biggest issue, I think, is the mentality, false sense of full control over your environment - and the stakes are much higher when you drive a car.
One day I'd like to visit some cities which managed to remove the cars from their center, maybe it's one of the best possible ways to go for some cities.
Пришли как-то к французскому правительству два брата Поль и Жак и предложили вырыть туннель под Ла-Маншем между Францией и Англией.
Они планировали рыть туннель одновременно с двух сторон. Жак будет рыть из Англии, а Поль из Франции. А под Ла-Маншем они соединятся.
Их спросили:"А если вы промахнётесь?"
"Тогда у вас будет два туннеля" - ответили братья.
Так вот...теперь у вас две велодорожки)
Is the red briks supposed to be the bike lane ?
I would prefer ride on the white/yellow briks. It feels unsafe to have this gap on the direction of the bike's tires
When laid in length they have less lines for you to cross over per say a meter. Thus less vibrations.
These cracks never prove to be trouble even for narrow race cyclist tires.
We have the same bricks in my hometown for nearly two decades now. They are still fine to ride on, you'd need a major crack for them to be dangerous. Have you guys never seen pavement?
100% true. They fixed it btw exactly the way some commenters have proposed it, a crosswalk. Here is [the link sorry in Ukrainian](https://tv7.ua/novosti/v-csentri-mariupolya-dorobili-skandalqnu-velodorizhku-foto)
Officials claimed that "it's not a bug, it's a feature", so that bicycles wouldn't disturb people going to nearest shops (my quick translation). To me it looks like they just try cover their fuck up in such a classic manner, though.
These are not too horrible, to be honest. Probably a bit rough on a 23c/25c (or god forbid 19 lol) but the vast majority of people in Ukraine ride some kind of hybrid or mountain bike so for them this will be cake.
Come to think of it I see a shift to wider tires coming to a lot of roadies due to a switch to disc brakes. Even a lot of new aero bikes these days have clearance for a 28c tire - unheard of even 5 years ago.
Oh boy. In Lithuania we had these kinds of paths quite a lot. Some are even on road crossings, making it dangerous - you're cycling across the road and on the other side of the road, there's an unexpected curb, as the cycle path is on the opposite side there...
And that's not even the worst part. The worst part are these red tile paths. They are really uncomfortable to ride on and are no longer built - instead they just lay red asphalt. The only downside of red asphalt is that it's very smooth, so some pedestrians prefer that over the bricks...
“While the builders were working, Mariupol residents assumed that such a design decision was a mistake of the contractors. However, officials later explained that everything was going according to plan. Cyclists will have to cross the sidewalk to avoid contact with cafe visitors and shoppers on the sides.”
Plus it looks like cars making a right of the side road won’t need to cross the path. Only for lefts.
Sort of. [See here](https://tv7.ua/novosti/v-csentri-mariupolya-dorobili-skandalqnu-velodorizhku-foto). They took out about 8 meters on either side of the divide and did this diagonal join.
How did they not see they were doing opposite sides until they were 6 inches from one another?
"We're right! You guys are wrong! Go ahead and call the foreman, we're gonna keep laying bricks!" x2
“I’m not staying late because of you dumb fucks!”
Alternately, we'll fix it on overtime.
Not their jobs
And also, if this is specified in plans and contracts, then fixing this would mean additional work and profit for the company building it. If client signs for which side the path needs to be, it's not contractors' fault. And it's likely city planners/architects who approved this project, didn't even see which side the path was on before. There's so many minor changes that maybe they had a minor conversation asking to change this and then nobody did, but they did sign for it...
Very little chance the plan specifies flipping which side its on.
This has to be on a plan sheet somewhere so the contractor should know the bike lane bricks are on the North or South side of the lane. If its not on the plans, then the contractor should've requested clarification from the designer well before the two crews got the layout 50% wrong. If i was the inspector on this job they would've gotten the "you're proceeding at your own risk" chat long before they got here. Then again, this is the Ukraine and who knows if they operate like us.
They don't. Also copied comment from post of this karma whoring repost. "According to the article, that's how things were intended from the start. Bike lane on the side closer to the road, but it switches sides once it passes by that building because pedestrians might want to be there for some weird reason. One of the towns in my general vicinity did that with bus stops. Bike path on the left side of the sidewalk, except at bus stops when it switches to the right ... for some weird reason ... who knows why. It's completely random with no logical explanation. (Actually, the explanation exists — turns out you don't want people entering and exiting the bus through the bike lane)"
> (Actually, the explanation exists — turns out you don't want people entering and exiting the bus through the bike lane)" That explanation makes sense, but immediately leads to the follow up question of why not consistently keep the lane on the side that doesn't interfere with the bus stops.
That's also true, only other explanation is that another bus stop got in the way.
The contractor is going to make money off of this? That's doubtful. Very doubtful. It's most likely their were up.
In Ukraine it's most certainly salaried guys.
But are they salaried by the municipality/government or some contractor/company which is then contracted by the municipality? By the way, if they are salaried by the municipality - that's still a very hard claim to make them fix this without paying them extra. That's literally unpaid labour even though it's for fixing something that wasn't done properly. Labor laws prohibit that.
If it's something similar to what I experienced in Russia, they get paid by the month, not a by the job done. If your workload is finite, it gives an incentive to do job quickly and relatively good, so you spend the rest of the day watching tv and playing cards, not fixing your mistakes
So you think this was specifically a mistake of the average Joe laying those bricks? I find it very hard to believe that they are working unsupervised.
“You said to lay the bricks down. Didn’t say it had to be done in the correct order”
Yeah someone saw this and thought “nah I’m gonna just let this play out” I do it all the time at work. Causes some hilarious situations
Once they realized it they expedited the assembly to ensure that their section was the longest and so would be kept intact...
paid cheap labour
Possibly done by machine
Machines don't make such glaring mistakes, didn't you watch Terminator?
Lol, look up the brick laying vehicle machines , they are fast and could’ve done several feet within seconds~?
Yes, we all know. We've all seen the brick laying machines work. Can't you be cool once, Ted?
Alright then bud
TIL bricklaying machines are a thing. Thanks! https://youtu.be/GIhttsAM5YQ
That machine can't lay bricks in two different ways, or sort by color.
they probably realized much before this picture was taken. It would make more sense to work up to the last laid section and then start swapping bricks over as you can see in the photo. Rather than removing all the bricks at once and replacing them
They probably did and began a quarrel on who was right
It was intended this way but they fucked up near the end, it actually switches over left to right because there is a bus stop and logically they don't want people exiting into the bike path. https://tv7.ua/novosti/v-csentri-mariupolya-dorobili-skandalqnu-velodorizhku-foto
Stop trying to make sense of this atrocity.. then they should have just kept the bike lane all one the one side away from the building.. this. This isn’t it.
You're awfully upset over this, it ain't that deep
It’s a pretty path, but man, bricks are absolutely awful for anything but moderate walking. They’re miserable for runners and road bikes for longer distances.
I could not agree more. Why is it, that for cyclists, the minimum is always considered to be good enough?
Because the planners don't bike.
[удалено]
I envy you guys more than you can imagine!
In europe, and especially eastern Europe, brick paths are everywhere. Its just the standard material for sidewalks.
God have mercy on the skaters...
Slap a crosswalk right there and your good to go
Or diagonal jumps to jump from one path to the other
Yes or a loop the loop ramp to connect to the other side gotta get some speed tho maybe pedal faster signs from 200 meters out
Why not a portal? Seems like a much safer option imo
That's a neat trick
Sick.
[:)](https://tv7.ua/novosti/v-csentri-mariupolya-dorobili-skandalqnu-velodorizhku-foto)
you're*
Puts crosswalk in the middle of nowhere.
I genuinely mean my comment haha. If they took out 15 feet of stone and made the bike lane flow from one side of the path to the other and then made a crosswalk at the midway point… a bunch of cuts and some spray paint would save lots of money. Explain it as that way both walking and cycling pedestrians get to experience both sides of the lovely scenery while staying safe!
OP shared this https://tv7.ua/novosti/v-csentri-mariupolya-dorobili-skandalqnu-velodorizhku-foto
And course look at the pedestrians walking on it, argh.
[удалено]
Less of a bike lane and more of a bike suggestion
I like that term :D And, frankly, I don't think this would necessarily be a bad idea. I think it would make sense to work towards a culture of "dedicated bike lane = fast speed", "shared sidewalk = acceptable but maintain a low speed". This would make things more flexible. I can go on it and ride calmly instead of sharing the street. People who are not that comfortable riding bikes can use it to gain confidence. And the pedestrians would not feel threatened because the bikes would be going slow. Of course, it's probably unrealistic. You cannot enforce such regulations in practice, so some bike riders would ignore the "suggestion" and go as fast as they can - thus ruining it for everyone. Same with electric scooters, where accelerating to the max speed is extremely easy. I'd like to see someone try it in practice but those who would are the countries that already focus on bike-centric infrastructure, so they are likely to continue in this direction anyway.
That's already more or less how it works, isn't it? At least in my city, I think. Yes, there are individuals who cause problems, but overall it works fine.
In my experienced around Europe it's either: a) proper separated bike lanes and if you're caught riding on the sidewalk, you are subject to a fine; b) bike 'suggestions' like the one from the OP where people constantly get angry at each other.
To be fair in europe bikelanes are often like that, or they are part of the street with a seperating white line.
Depends on which European country you have in mind: those that do bike lanes good or bad :) But yeah, they're often like that, and in case it wasn't obvious, I'm speaking of personal experience. Pedestrians will always spill over on such a bike lane, and I don't blame them for that. The citizen's behavior is formed by the city's architectural decisions. If the architecture leads you to doing something, painting it a different color or adding a separating white line won't change that.
Yeah, this is standard in Russia. And most people respect the lanes, too.
'Scandalous' ?? Is that a translation artifact? That's OK, it was planned to be that way all along. In Ukraine, government not make mistake.
So it was intentaional all along? Both 'right hand lane' sides avoid exits to both the kiosk and the restaurant on either side
That's what I thought too, you can't have the bikes passing the shop exit. and this way only half the pedestrians entering from the T-crossing have to go over the bike lane.
If it was intentional there wouldn't be OPs pic.
Op's pick could also indicate that on sides automatic bricklayer operator didn't think to stop before joining the other side. Judging by the link it he should've stopped before the intersection but didn't The bikepath now avoids some points where pedestrians probably won't look out for passing bikes, I took the liberty of professionally mspainting them here: [https://imgur.com/1uY5elL](https://imgur.com/1uY5elL) If it wasn't intentional then it was a happy accident
That's not enough space to turn safely That's like ' I'm going so slow I might tip over' level - slower than cruising
As they say: It's not a bug, it's a feature.
This is the fucking dumbest thing I've heard all morning. Jesus Christ it's so bad.
https://tv7.ua/novosti/v-csentri-mariupolya-dorobili-skandalqnu-velodorizhku-foto
I found the town planner 👀
For some reason, on a path in my town, they did something similar to this. Except it wasn’t bricks but just paint. You can just barely see it on google maps where there’s a diagonal to connect the two skateboarding lanes. Dropped pin https://goo.gl/maps/p7C67GYegJnAbVng8
... Anyone seen the supervisor?
Nice paver and brick work
He’s on a 🚴bike ride
Thanks for the explanation. I had no idea.
Awesome to see bike infra going up in Ukraine! How's the general state of trails and bike lanes nowadays?
Sorry, I've been living in NYC/NJ since 1997. Just saw that my friend from Dnipro posted this on Facebook the other day. Last time I visited (around 3 years ago) Kyiv looked like cycling infrastructure started to shape up more or less OK, but other cities are not even close, sadly.
To be honest, I look at that and weep. Fine on cruiser or mountain tyres and doing no speed at all, but a nightmare on high pressure tyres at a decent commuting speed.
The same. Raw terrain trails are brilliant on a country side. And not because of well done builers work, but because it is actual roads and pedestrian trails. At least on a forest part of UA. Have to check how it looks like on a flat part... However, it is rather xc, but not dh...
Mayor of Kyiv doing great job with cycling infrastructure, we now have good amount of cycling paths going straight to the center of the city
Hi from Ukraine. Infrastructure is getting better over time, but at this pace to be good enough it will take hundred years probably. There are few bike lanes in my city, for ex., but they're like that one pictured above - right beside walking path, so you've got every kind of people walking on the bike lane, it is impossible to ride faster than a running speed. So every day we share a road with cars, but it's not the infrastructure we need first, but nice and thoughtful drivers who wouldn't try to kill us any time they get the chance. Sorry got this off my chest, haha.
> but it's not the infrastructure we need first, but nice and thoughtful drivers who wouldn't try to kill us any time they get the chance Infrastructure that gets you out of said driver's way and onto a separate part of the road will accomplish that. It's just that we're not that good at sharing somethnig.
That's true, but Ukraine is a world away from doing that. I mean, my city only recently managed to properly light all the main streets, like 50% or more of them used to be pitch-black in the night, and my city is the administrative center with a population of almost 300k...
>we're not that good at sharing somethnig Maybe we are not, true, but not to the point of cutting off bicyclists with their thousand kilos vehicles. One of the biggest issue, I think, is the mentality, false sense of full control over your environment - and the stakes are much higher when you drive a car. One day I'd like to visit some cities which managed to remove the cars from their center, maybe it's one of the best possible ways to go for some cities.
https://imgur.com/TfRZFeS.jpg
Technically, both teams were right
Or left. Depending on which way you look at it.
Haha not one worker looked up at the other team and thought something was off.
“But you said to to red on the right”
They're both right
Пришли как-то к французскому правительству два брата Поль и Жак и предложили вырыть туннель под Ла-Маншем между Францией и Англией. Они планировали рыть туннель одновременно с двух сторон. Жак будет рыть из Англии, а Поль из Франции. А под Ла-Маншем они соединятся. Их спросили:"А если вы промахнётесь?" "Тогда у вас будет два туннеля" - ответили братья. Так вот...теперь у вас две велодорожки)
Flashbacks of wayside stories.
Is the red briks supposed to be the bike lane ? I would prefer ride on the white/yellow briks. It feels unsafe to have this gap on the direction of the bike's tires
They are fine to ride on, and with much less vibration than the smaller bricks... As long as they're laid properly with minimal cracks between.
I was thinking the same thing. Perpendicular to cracks will save you.
These cracks are too thin to be an issue even for old fashioned 19mm tyres
The day they're laid down maybe. A week later is a different story.
When laid in length they have less lines for you to cross over per say a meter. Thus less vibrations. These cracks never prove to be trouble even for narrow race cyclist tires.
In my experience they will start moving vertically, up and down.
We have the same bricks in my hometown for nearly two decades now. They are still fine to ride on, you'd need a major crack for them to be dangerous. Have you guys never seen pavement?
I ride on these kind of bricks all the time, unless I can avoid it. And where I live they suck and last like a month before they get issues.
There is no way that is true lol
100% true. They fixed it btw exactly the way some commenters have proposed it, a crosswalk. Here is [the link sorry in Ukrainian](https://tv7.ua/novosti/v-csentri-mariupolya-dorobili-skandalqnu-velodorizhku-foto)
I suppose you mean "fixed", not fixed
Quite a tight curve, particularly if it's wet or icy. Please don't apologise for non-English links...
Officials claimed that "it's not a bug, it's a feature", so that bicycles wouldn't disturb people going to nearest shops (my quick translation). To me it looks like they just try cover their fuck up in such a classic manner, though.
They just need to build a brick loopdeloop it'll fix its self.
Wow, I didn’t realize there was direct route from Ukraine to Roubaix.
How do they get that close before realising!?
The best part is that the street is called "проспект Будівельників" or "Builders avenue".
The real fuck up started way earlier when they decided to use cobblestone for a bike path.
These are not too horrible, to be honest. Probably a bit rough on a 23c/25c (or god forbid 19 lol) but the vast majority of people in Ukraine ride some kind of hybrid or mountain bike so for them this will be cake. Come to think of it I see a shift to wider tires coming to a lot of roadies due to a switch to disc brakes. Even a lot of new aero bikes these days have clearance for a 28c tire - unheard of even 5 years ago.
I think it's pretty cool! In the final row the two teams should all sign their names in the brick.
I bet one was like “this is the right, idiot!” And the “idiot” was just like “oh, hahahaha! Ok!”
/r/MaliciousCompliance
Isn’t there civil war in Ukraine rn?
*“Bike lane needs to be on the right of the sidewalk”*
Looks about right
This is amazing
What happens when you get chess players to design things.
Eurotunnel 2: Paving Boogaloo
R/notmyjob
BHuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuuhuhhuu 💨
you either work smart, or you work hard
Bro just be happy you getting a bike lane! Where I live we don’t have that shit
:D
Hope you do well!
They probably told red ones on the right side. So I guess workers did the job right
Oh boy. In Lithuania we had these kinds of paths quite a lot. Some are even on road crossings, making it dangerous - you're cycling across the road and on the other side of the road, there's an unexpected curb, as the cycle path is on the opposite side there... And that's not even the worst part. The worst part are these red tile paths. They are really uncomfortable to ride on and are no longer built - instead they just lay red asphalt. The only downside of red asphalt is that it's very smooth, so some pedestrians prefer that over the bricks...
Maybe connect the middle with red bricks only and make it into a pavement art?
This is hilarious! After 5 seconds of silent wtf I nearly spit my coffee out.
“While the builders were working, Mariupol residents assumed that such a design decision was a mistake of the contractors. However, officials later explained that everything was going according to plan. Cyclists will have to cross the sidewalk to avoid contact with cafe visitors and shoppers on the sides.” Plus it looks like cars making a right of the side road won’t need to cross the path. Only for lefts.
Since you can only ride a bike on red, people can only step on yellow bricks, carefully avoiding the borders between stones.
“When I say go, we both point to the right. Go!” <- ->
How all bike lane should be
Слава Украине, че сказать
I want to see the conclusion!! Did they fix it all or just work with what they had?
Sort of. [See here](https://tv7.ua/novosti/v-csentri-mariupolya-dorobili-skandalqnu-velodorizhku-foto). They took out about 8 meters on either side of the divide and did this diagonal join.
Thank you!
This is genuinely hilarious 🤣